North Korea's girl dad dictator

Summary

Podcast Summary: Today, Explained – "North Korea's Girl Dad Dictator" (June 22, 2026)

---

Overview

This episode of Today, Explained explores surprising developments in North Korea: a booming economy in the capital, Pyongyang, ties with Russia, growing technological access tightly controlled by the regime, and the emergence of Kim Jong Un’s daughter as a high-profile public figure and possible heir. Hosts Noel King and (briefly) Sean Rameswaram are joined by Wall Street Journal Korea bureau chief Tim Martin, and North Korea expert Anna Fifield, to unpack what North Korea’s modernization means for its people and its future leadership.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Changed North Korea: Economic and Social Modernization

• The New North Korean Capital
  • Pyongyang is witnessing unprecedented construction: over 10,000 new homes built last year, more than Los Angeles or Chicago ([00:00]-[02:20]).
  • New images from visitors depict a thriving, modernizing city with more cars (including Chinese EVs), traffic jams, new street laws, and widespread use of smartphones.
  • “There are so many vehicles. North Korea is brighter from outer space at night. So this is a completely different picture...” – Tim Martin ([02:20]).
• How Did This Happen?
  • Just five years ago, Kim Jong Un publicly apologized for the economy’s failures and food shortages ([02:20]-[05:10]).
  • The COVID-19 pandemic caused North Korea to close its borders, especially cutting off trade with China, deeply hurting the economy.
  • The turnaround resulted largely from supporting Russia’s war in Ukraine:
    • North Korea supplied Russia with munitions and sent troops (up to 30,000) to bolster the Russian front.
    • This military support injected billions into North Korea’s modest $27B annual GDP—possibly over $10B in under three years. “It’s a significant amount of money or assets flowing into North Korea.” – Tim Martin ([05:16]).
  • Other Major Income Sources:
    • China hosts North Korea’s “cyber warriors” who add $1B a year through hacking and cryptocurrency theft.
    • North Korea is “the world’s best thief of cryptocurrency.” – Tim Martin ([06:00]).
• Everyday Life in Pyongyang
  • The city is noisy, bustling with construction and traffic. Western visitors find it resembles other global cities, with people engrossed in their smartphones ([07:08]).
  • “Lots of people have smartphones, their necks are craned looking at their screens. This just shows North Korea has more resources, more of a technological, digital ecosystem...” – Tim Martin ([07:18]).
• Tightly Controlled Modernity
  • Despite technological progress, digital freedoms are nonexistent:
    • Smartphones only access a regime-controlled “intranet.”
    • Texts autocorrect to regime-approved terms.
    • Phones can be randomly searched by police who can access screenshots (“At any given moment, will take a random snapshot of what’s on your screen” – Tim Martin [09:13]).
  • Instead of enabling dissent, technology supercharges surveillance. “North Korea has learned from countries like China... In fact, I think the opposite [of liberalization] is occurring.” ([08:42]-[10:05])

2. Who Benefits from the Boom?

• The economic benefits are concentrated among the elite, especially those who live in Pyongyang:
  • Only people with political connections and money can live in the capital ([10:14]-[10:51]).
  • The countryside remains poor and malnourished. “Half the population doesn’t have enough food.” ([10:14]).
• The boom's future is uncertain, with much depending on continued war in Ukraine and illicit cyber revenues. Kim Jong Un currently seems comfortable controlling the economy tightly ([11:05]-[12:35]).

3. The Rise of Kim Jong Un’s Daughter

• Who is She?
  • Seen at missile launches, parades, and state events alongside Kim Jong Un.
  • Identified as Kim Joo Ae, likely around 13 years old—her name and age originate from Dennis Rodman's account after his visit 12 years ago ([16:40]-[18:46]).
  • Anna Fifield: “...he was told at the time that the baby was about one year old and her name was Kim Joo Ae. So that is how we base our knowledge...” ([18:46]).
• Why Her Public Role is Significant
  • State media never names her, but her growing presence at key events signals grooming for leadership.
  • “It has seemed more likely that he is grooming her and preparing the 1% in Pyongyang who keep him in power for the idea that she will one day take over.” – Anna Fifield ([24:00])
  • Scenes of senior officials bowing to her, and even driving a tank together with Kim Jong Un, reinforce speculation.
  • “She has emerged at her father’s side repeatedly and in the most unusual circumstances... very unusual daddy-daughter outings for a 13 year old.” – Anna Fifield ([19:43])
• Contrast with Past Successions
  • Kim Jong Un was unveiled late, after his father’s stroke and rapid promotion through the ranks ([20:32]-[22:05]).
  • Speculation: Kim Jong Un wants a smoother, longer preparation for his daughter.
• Structural Challenges
  • North Korea is a “dynastic communist monarchy” in a deeply patriarchal, Confucian society.
  • Anna Fifield is skeptical about whether a woman could ultimately take power: “It just seems like a step too far.” ([25:29]-[27:07])
  • But she acknowledges: Kim Jong Un's own rise was unlikely, and with a regime based on “corruption, kleptocracy, and fear,” nothing is impossible.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “North Korea is brighter from outer space at night.” – Tim Martin ([02:20])
• On Economic Boom: “It’s a significant amount of money or assets flowing into North Korea.” – Tim Martin ([06:00])
• On Technology: “North Korea has learned from countries like China... In North Korea, they’re using technology to tighten its digital noose over its population.” – Tim Martin ([08:42])
• On Elite Privilege: “Only people connected to the party, people with money, people with political connections can even live in the capital.” – Tim Martin ([10:14])
• On Kim Joo Ae: “She’s been called the beloved daughter in the state propaganda in North Korea.” – Anna Fifield ([24:00])
• On Uncertainty of Succession: “But I do think it’s extremely, extremely difficult… it just seems like a step too far.” – Anna Fifield ([26:33])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Pyongyang’s Economic Boom – 00:00–08:10
• Technology & Surveillance – 08:10–10:05
• Who Benefits? (Elites vs. General Population) – 10:05–12:35
• Kim Jong Un’s Daughter: Kim Joo Ae – 16:26–27:07

---

Conclusion

The episode paints a complex picture of North Korea today: a capital city rapidly modernizing on the back of weapons exports and cybercrime, while the majority of the population remains impoverished. Modern technologies largely serve to enhance the regime’s surveillance and control. Amid these changes, Kim Jong Un projects his daughter, Kim Joo Ae, as a possible fourth-generation ruler—remarkable both for her youth and, if it comes to pass, her gender, in a deeply patriarchal society. As always with North Korea, much remains hidden, but the implications for the future are both startling and uncertain.

Transcript

[Noel King]

Some of the most enduring images of North Korea are these satellite pictures taken at night. You've probably seen them. The neighboring countries are ablaze with the lights of cities and towns. But once you hit North Korea's borders, it's just black. Everything's dark. North Korea is very poor and has very poor infrastructure that includes electricity because of years of sanctions from the US and other countries aimed at punishing it for its nuclear program. Until now, that's how we've understood North Korea. But the Wall Street Journal recently reported a staggering statistic. Last year in the capital Pyongyang, more than 10,000 homes were built. That's more than were thrown up in either Los Angeles or Chicago. Something is happening in North Korea.

[Tim Martin]

The image that's been painted for us by recent visitors to the North Korean capital is an economy that's on the uptick, an economy that's thriving. And that was hugely surprising.

[Noel King]

Coming up on Today explained from Vox Boom times in the Hermit kingdom, support

[Fetch Pet Insurance Ad Voice]

for this show comes from Vetch Pet insurance. Do you have a pet? Every six seconds a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill of over $1,000. And it's almost always an unwelcome surprise. That's where Fetch pet insurance comes in. Fetch is the most complete pet insurance get paid back up to 90% of vet bills. You can use any vet in the US and Canada. All vets are in network. Go to fetchpet.comsave right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.comsave when I got a new

[Noel King]

car, I thought my insurance premium would increase and empty my bank account like

[Anna Fifield]

if Fatween won the lottery.

[Tim Martin]

I've invested most of my winnings in

[Noel King]

chicken tenders because they're bomb.

[Tim Martin]

But bro, I bought a house and it's sick, bro.

[Noel King]

I'm thinking the floor is going to be all trampoline, bro.

[Tim Martin]

With the helipad on the roof. The contractor said it's structurally unsound. They're just being babies. But switching to Geico saved me hundreds.

[Noel King]

So my bank account is safe.

[Tim Martin]

It feels good to say some hard earned cash. It feels good to Geico.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

This is today explained.

[Noel King]

Tim Martin is the Korea bureau chief for the Wall Street Journal and he recently co wrote this great piece about a completely unexp in North Korea.

[Tim Martin]

It's a North Korea that really compared to just a few years ago is modernizing. You can see smartphones on the streets. There's more cars. There's traffic jams. There are new street laws telling North Koreans not to Jaywalk. There are so many vehicles. North Korea is brighter from outer space at night. So this is a completely different picture than certainly what maybe the world thinks about North Korea. And it's even a different picture than people who've been to North Korea many times and hadn't gone in many years. Just five years ago, Kim Jong Un, at a important congressional party meeting, had said, I'm sorry, the economy's not working. Our policy has failed on the economy. He shed tears in public. He admitted, in a rare way for a North Korean leader, we have food shortages. We are struggling. And then right on the heels of this was Covid. And North Korea has no. Because it's so poor, it doesn't have great public infrastructure. So anytime there's a pandemic or abroad health scare, they have to shut everything down. So they closed its borders, and that cut off their trade, particularly with China, and that really asphyxiated the economy. So even by North Korea's own sort of unique standards of economic, economic vibrancy, they were at a weak point. And this is where Kim Jong Un was five years ago, in a shocking way, issuing a mea culpa to his people, saying, we're not doing well. And what we've seen over those five years, it's a bit of luck, It's a bit of focus. It's a bit of Kim Jong Un wanting to reassert control over his economy. But they've had multiple ways to produce this economic rebound. North Korea got a break, if you will, with Russia's invasion to Ukraine. What did North Korea do? They first began offering munitions, supplying munitions en masse to Russia's war machine. We see how much military support Russia gets from North Korea. North Korea is providing significant munitions to Russia and other weapons. And the two countries signed a mutual defense pact. And that laid the legal groundwork for what took the North Korea, Russia relationship to a whole new level now, to

[Anna Fifield]

a development in the war in Ukraine. The U.S. state Department says there are signs that North Korean troops are in Russia.

[Tim Martin]

According to Ukrainian intelligence, Pyongyang is sending up to 30,000 more troops to bolster Russian forces along the front lines. North Korea initially sent some 11,000 troops to Russian territory last year, and that was the deployment of thousands of North Korean troops to the Russian front lines to fight the Ukrainians. And this provided Putin and Russia something. It really needed bodies and soldiers and North Koreans fought and died for this war with Ukraine on Russia's behalf. So this injected billions of dollars into the regime. And to give you some Perspective. North Korea's GDP is estimated to be about $27 billion annually, and they've accrued, according to some estimates, more than $10 billion just in the past two and a half years or so. Whoa. It's a significant amount of money or assets flowing into North Korea. So the Russia part is very important. There are two other pieces to this. China is North Korea's main benefactor and trading partner. It warehouses many of Kim Jong Un's cyber warriors, who, again, to the point of North Korea's relatively small GDP, which is not even 1% of what the US's GDP is. These hackers and cyber operatives bring in at least $1 billion a year to the regime. And North Korea has also shown itself to be the world's best thief of cryptocurrency. They've pulled off multiple massive heists of exchanges, you know, even over a billion dollars in a single action.

[Noel King]

All right, so tell me about what this looks like on the ground. Let's say I'm in the capital Pyongyang, and I'm looking around. What might I see there that I wouldn't have seen five years ago?

[Tim Martin]

It would be noisy. There's so much construction happening in Pyongyang. And it would be noisy not only from the construction and the bulldozers, but also there'd be a lot more cars on the streets, and not just unrecognizable North Korean brands. You're seeing Chinese EVs, and we talked with Westerners who had traveled dozens of times to North Korea before the pandemic, and these same visitors went back, and Pyongyang at least looks like any other major city in that lots of people have smartphones, their necks are craned looking at their screens. This just shows North Korea has more resources, more of a technological, digital ecosystem, and they're trying to put themselves more on par with the rest of the world.

[Noel King]

Okay, so there is a thing that sometimes happens in countries that put themselves on par with the rest of the world, which is you get richer, life gets more convenient, and you start thinking a little bit outside of, you know, the box that you've been living in. Right. So you're talking about smartphones, ride hailing, apps, digital payments. This is a country that is modernizing very rapidly. Does that mean North Koreans are starting to make any demands? I mean, this is a very, very repressive country. It's sometimes harder to oppress people when they've got iPhones.

[Tim Martin]

In fact, I think the opposite is occurring.

[Anna Fifield]

Wow.

[Tim Martin]

North Korea has learned from countries say Like China. And you'd think, well, if you have smartphones, you can access the Internet and you can learn about the world. And this is the complete opposite. In North Korea, they are using technology to tighten its digital news over its population. A North Korean smartphone user doesn't have free run at the Internet and information. Everything is tightly controlled by the regime. You're only allowed to access an Internet that North Korea chooses. These are the North Korean curated sites for you to go to. These are the apps that we can have. You have access to certain things you try to text into your phone. Like South Korea, for instance, autocorrects to the way North Korea refers to South Korea, which is southern Joseon. The smartphones at any given moment will take a random snapshot of what's on your screen. If a police officer stops you on the street and says, show me your phone, which is a fairly frequent occurrence, then you're subjected to this audit of. Of what you look at on your phone. I think Kim Jong Un is very happy for more North Koreans to have smartphones because, again, it allows this surveillance capabilities to be supercharged.

[Noel King]

Hmm. Is the economic boom benefiting ordinary North Koreans, all North Koreans, or just kind of like a handful of elite up at the top?

[Tim Martin]

It is concentrated in the North Korean capital, and it's not like, hey, I would love a view of the beautiful river in downtown Pyongyang. So I'm going to move there. No, only people connected to the party, people with money, people with political connections can even live in the capital. So if you leave Pyongyang, the country still is very poor, malnourished. Half the population doesn't have enough food. So, yes, it's disproportionately going to Pyongyang and the elites. But it's not the only area where North Korea is seeing growth.

[Noel King]

If the economic growth is based on a war that will someday, hopefully end and some scams, however successful, is that really a recipe for a strong economic future for this country?

[Tim Martin]

Many of these drivers could be fleeting for sure. Russia's war machine could rev down if there's an end to the war in Ukraine. But I think there would be a long tail there in terms of Russia wanting a cheap way to replenish many of its munitions. So how sustainable is this? I think Kim Jong Un has a degree of comfort politically, militarily, and now economically, and that allows him to sort of call the shots. Does he want to reengage with the US does he even need a sanctions deal? At this point, one of the benefits of where Kim Jong Un has his economy at the moment is he can do what he wants. There aren't tough questions being asked. He's controlling the inflow and outflow of massive parts of the economy. If you imagine a world where sanctions are lifted and tons of outside capital from South Korea or the US Or Japan is flowing in, these are foreigners bringing them, bringing the investment, snooping around, seeing if their money is being properly deployed, that's a risk to Kim Jong Un. Ultimately, there's probably a way he he tries to achieve an economy that has outsiders coming in and investing in the country that can lift more of the country out of poverty. But I think for right now, he's very comfortable.

[Noel King]

That's Tim Martin, the Korea bureau chief for the Wall Street Journal. Coming up, Kim Jong Un's heir apparent. She stylist. She can fire a rifle, she can drive a tank, and she's a teenager.

[Tim Martin]

Foreign.

[Noel King]

Explained Comes from Built Rewards. Is housing one of your biggest monthly expenses? Why not make that expense work for you? Built can help you do that. It's a membership program for where you live that gives you points on every housing payment. Bilt started out rewarding members on their rent. Now, as of 2026, built members can also earn points on mortgage payments. Every housing payment earns points that can be redeemed in a variety of ways, including flights with travel partners like United and Hyatt, Lyft rides, purchases on Amazon and more. They also have something called a neighborhood concierge, which works kind of like a personal assistant baked into your place of residence. It can make restaurant reservations, book fitness classes and find a new local spot, all while giving rewards. Renting or paying your mortgage can feel a whole lot better with Built says Built. No matter where you live, you can join the membership for where you [e-mail] explained. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com explained. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Support for the show today comes from Quince. There's no better time than today to update your wardrobe. And it's not because your clothes aren't fabulous. Not because you're not fabulous. You're fabulous. But look, look outside. Summer is here or it's summer. You know, been here in some cases. And you want pieces that feel easy, comfortable and still put together. That's where Quince comes in. They focus on high quality essentials that can make you feel amazing, quite frankly, well made basics, but without the luxury markup. Claire White has tried Quince.

[Anna Fifield]

I've gotten a lot of great summer pieces from Quince, from their basic T shirts to their linen button downs. They have a really wide range of awesome summer staples that will stay in my closet the whole season.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com explained for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com explained for free shipping and 365 day returns, quince.com explained. Support for TODAY Explained comes from Fetch Pet Insurance here's what surprises a lot of pet owners. Something like every six seconds a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill over $1,000. And when I say hit, it sometimes feels like you're getting hit. Because I can speak from personal experience that I've been hit with a vet bill over $1,000 and I don't even have a pet. According to consumeradvocate.org fetch is the most complete pet insurance for dogs and cats and you get paid back up to 90% of vet bills for accidents, illness, diagnostics and more. All vets are in network so you can use Fetch for any vet in the US or Canada. Get your free custom quote in about 2 minutes at fetchpet.com Save that's fetchpet.com Save fetch lovelonger that's nice.

[Tim Martin]

This is TODAY Explained.

[Anna Fifield]

I'm Anna Fifield. I am a journalist and I wrote a book called the Great Successor, the Divinely Perfect Destiny of Brilliant Comrade Kim Jong Un.

[Noel King]

Anna, there is a girl who we've seen in photos alongside Kim Jong Un. We've seen her at missile launches, military parades, other big state events. This girl is his daughter. What do we know about her and why is her presence at his side getting so much attention?

[Anna Fifield]

Well, there's a lot we don't know about her, but what we think we know is that her name is Kim Joo Ae and that she is about 13 years old. And we have a very unusual source for this information, which is Dennis Rodman.

[Noel King]

Oh, who became the first American to meet with the new leader of North

[Anna Fifield]

Korea, the wild child of basketball, Dennis Rodman.

[Tim Martin]

I said, your grandfather and your father did some bad things. I said, but you are trying to change something.

[Anna Fifield]

When Kim Jong Un was just in the beginning of his reign, there was an effort by some Americans to kind of reach out to him and see if they could get in contact, find out a little more about this guy. And everybody knew that Kim Jong Un loved the Chicago Bulls. So first of all, a request was made to Michael Jordan. He was not interested in going to North Korea for some reason. But Dennis Rodman was up for going to North Korea.

[Tim Martin]

I'm sorry that my country and your country are not on good terms. But for me, sir, thank you. You have a friend for life.

[Anna Fifield]

And that started this weird period of kind of basketball diplomacy when a United States main envoy to North Korea was a washed up basketball star. And when the basketballer went to North Korea about 12 years ago and met Kim Jong Un, he was also introduced and he held this baby.

[Fetch Pet Insurance Ad Voice]

In an interview with the Guardian, Rodman filled the newspaper in on the young dictator's parenting skills.

[Tim Martin]

He's a good dad and has a beautiful family.

[Noel King]

I held their baby Joue and spoke

[Fetch Pet Insurance Ad Voice]

with Ms. Rhee as well.

[Tim Martin]

For him to open his heart and his mind to give me his daughter. For the first time in history, I hold his kid.

[Anna Fifield]

And so he was told at the time that the baby was about one year old and her name was Kim Joo Ae. So that is how we base our knowledge of her name. Not the most reliable source, but the North Koreans have never named her in state media or anywhere. So that's the name we're going with until they tell us otherwise. But the reason she's gathered so much attention over the past couple of years is that she has emerged at her father's side repeatedly and in the most unusual circumstances. She has been going to intercontinental missile

[Tim Martin]

launches at the launch of North Korea's newest long range missile. A strangely tender moment from Kim Jong Un hand in hand with his young daughter, the first time any of his children had been officially seen in public. So it's very significant to see how senior North Korean officials will shake her hand, bow to her, be very respectful towards her.

[Anna Fifield]

Despite her being a child, she's been out with her father on a bunch of occasions, often wearing similar outfits, like a leather bomber jacket like he was wearing when they drove a tank together. So very unusual daddy daughter outings for a 13 year old. And this of course has spotted stoked a lot of speculation that she is his heir apparent and that he wants her to take over the family business which is running a totalitarian regime.

[Noel King]

Yes, it is indeed a family business. He took over. Kim Jong Un took over from his father. And you and others have written about how he was kind of kept hidden before he was announced as the next leader of North Korea. Why do you think Kim Jong Un is being so public with his own kid? Given that the way he came up was different.

[Anna Fifield]

Yeah, well, Kim Jong Un is the third generation leader of North Korea, so they've only had a transition twice before, so there's really no set way of doing this. But with Kim Jong Un's father, he spent 20, 30 years being promoted through the ranks and appearing in public as a full grown man to get this sense of legitimacy, the idea that he was the next leader of North Korea. But with Kim Jong Un, it was extremely rushed. His father had a stroke in 2008.

[Noel King]

Now, South Korean affairs officials are saying

[Tim Martin]

that Kim had brain surgery after suffering

[Podcast Host/Producer]

a stroke about August 15 and died

[Anna Fifield]

at the end of 2011. Kim Jong Il died aged 69 of a heart attack on December 17, according to state media in Pyongyang.

[Noel King]

Tears for their supreme leader.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

North Koreans lined up to mourn the death of Kim Jong Il.

[Anna Fifield]

Father General, where are you? She wailed.

[Tim Martin]

Grown men, many in uniform, blubbered like babies.

[Anna Fifield]

So really, Kim Jong Un was unveiled to the public in 2009 and then had this extremely fast rolling out kind of debut period where he was very, very quickly promoted through the ranks, made a general given political office in the Workers Party of Korea, the ruling party there is only one.

[Tim Martin]

He is truly not a ready for primetime player. The Chinese themselves are a little worried

[Podcast Host/Producer]

about whether he's really up to the task.

[Anna Fifield]

So it seemed to be quite hairy for a while there, like it wasn't clear that he was going to be able to win the support of these octogenarian apparatchiks who'd been there for decades running this system. So I can only kind of deduce from this now that Kim Jong Un wants to make sure that his heir doesn't go through the same very rushed, difficult process. So it's not like, I mean, Kim Jong Un is still in his mid-40s, although he doesn't look particularly healthy. But it's not likely that he's about to hand over leadership anytime soon. But I think he's probably laying the groundwork for in 30 or 40 years for his daughter to take over, because it would be an extremely difficult thing for this dynastic communist monarchy to go move to a fourth generation. But even more so for a woman to take over in a society that is extremely patriarchal.

[Noel King]

When did her appearances start? When did people start saying, it looks like this man wants his daughter to take over?

[Anna Fifield]

Yeah, it was about almost three years ago that Kim Ju Ae started appearing in public. And at the beginning there was quite a lot of skepticism or like, or talk about what she was doing there, why he was bringing her out to all these missile launches.

[Tim Martin]

Kim Ju A happens to be the best secret weapon that Pyongyang has right now. Because Chairman Kim Jong Un has been afraid of losing the world's attention. He also doesn't want to present anything that is threatening to him. And so having a young girl as his potential successor removes any threats.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

It's not like there are going to

[Tim Martin]

be cliques forming around a 13 year old girl. Part of it is he could be trying to show a softer face to the leadership and to the people.

[Anna Fifield]

And I think that's partly because it's very unusual to take your 11 year old to a missile launch. Yeah. But also because it just seemed completely beyond the pale that even in North Korea that he would try to promote a young girl as the leader of North Korea. But as she has taken on more and more appearances as she's growing up in the public eye, she's been called the kind of the beloved daughter in the state propaganda in North Korea. It has seemed more likely that he is grooming her and preparing the 1% in Pyongyang who keep him in power for the idea that she will one day take over. So it's gone from being quite unlikely to seeming increasingly inevitable that he will try at least to have her take over.

[Noel King]

Does he have other children again?

[Anna Fifield]

Another thing we don't know. Wow. Wow. I mean, the South Korean intelligence service didn't even know how to say, spell Kim Jong Un's name until the North Koreans revealed it in the state propaganda. You know, there is no human intelligence on North Korea, so there is so much we don't know.

[Noel King]

Given that North Korea is a patriarchal society and that sexism exists everywhere in the world and that this girl is very young, how confident are you that if North Korea, if something happens to Kim Jong Un, North Korea's military and single party and elites would actually rally behind this K?

[Anna Fifield]

Well, I mean, I guess it depends on when it happens, I should say. You know, I didn't think Kim Jong Un could do it. You know, I didn't think that the old guard would accept this. You know, young, 20 something, had grown up playing basketball in Switzerland and had no political or military experience to be the next leader of the regime. But through his, you know, very brutal rule and his propensity to execute his naysayers, Kim Jong Un has managed to do it. So I'd never say never in terms of whether Kim Joo Ae could take over. But I do think it's extremely, extremely difficult, partly because, you know, this regime is extremely anachronistic. It should have probably collapsed decades ago with the demise of the Soviet Union and the death of its founder. But somehow it has managed to endure through this mixture of kind of corruption, kleptocracy and fear are just keeping the ordinary people, plus the old guards who run the country, living in constant fear of being purged or worse. So it's not impossible that the daughter would be able to work something out to take over. But I mean, I am again sceptical in a very patriarchal, very Confucian society that values maleness and age. Just seems like a step too far.

[Noel King]

Anna fifield her book is called the great successor. The divinely perfect destiny of brilliant comrade kim jong un. Hadi muagdi, also divinely perfect, produced today's show. Jolie myers edited patrick boyden david tadashore engineered gabriel donatov check the facts. I'm noel king. It's today explained. We've all been there. You pop into the shop for five minutes and all of a sudden you've forgotten where you parked.

[Tim Martin]

Car. Car.

[Noel King]

Unfortunately, that lost feeling is what it's like trying to manage your policy with other insurers here.

[Tim Martin]

Car. Come out, come out, wherever you are, please.

[Noel King]

With Geico, you can use the app to easily manage all your policies in one place.

[Tim Martin]

Did this parking lot have a waterfall?

[Noel King]

I think you've wandered too far, mate.

[Tim Martin]

It feels good to find what you're looking for. It feels good to Geico.

[Fetch Pet Insurance Ad Voice]

Support for this show comes from Vetch Pet Insurance. Do you have a pet? Every six seconds, a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill of over $1,000 and it's almost always an unwelcome surprise. That's where Fetch Pet Insurance comes in. Fetch is the most complete pet insurance get paid back up to 90% of vet bills. You can use any vet in the US and Canada. All vets are in network. Go to fetchpet.comsave right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.comsave.