RFK Jr. wants to Make America Healthy Again

Summary

Today, Explained: RFK Jr. Wants to Make America Healthy Again

Podcast Information:

• Title: Today, Explained
• Host/Author: Vox
• Description: Today, Explained is Vox's daily news explainer podcast. Hosts Sean Rameswaram and Noel King guide listeners through the most important stories of the day.
• Episode: RFK Jr. Wants to Make America Healthy Again
• Release Date: January 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Today, Explained, hosts Noel King and Sean Rameswaram delve into the contentious confirmation hearings of Robert "Bobby" Flourite Kennedy Jr., the nominee for Health and Human Services Secretary. The discussion centers around Kennedy's divisive views on vaccines and the American food system, exploring his "Make America Healthy Again" (MAHA) movement and the broader implications for public health policy.

RFK Jr.'s Confirmation Hearings

Noel King opens the conversation by highlighting the intensity of Kennedy's Senate confirmation hearings:

[00:03] Noel King: Health and Human Services Secretary nominee Robert Flourite Kennedy Jr. went before the Senate today in fiery confirmation hearings.

Throughout the hearings, Kennedy presents two main arguments that have sparked significant debate: his skepticism of vaccines and his critique of the American food system.

Vaccine Skepticism

Kennedy's stance on vaccines is a focal point of contention. He expresses doubts about their safety and efficacy, particularly concerning their alleged link to autism, a claim that the scientific community has consistently refuted.

[00:17] Noel King: Kennedy makes two big arguments about our health, and the first is deeply divisive. He is skeptical of vaccines.

[00:25] Halina Botamiller Evic: Well, I do believe that autism does come from vaccines.

Despite his assertions, King emphasizes that "science disagrees" with Kennedy's position, underscoring the controversial nature of his claims.

Critique of the American Food System

Kennedy shifts focus to the American food system, arguing that it is detrimental to public health. He asserts that the prevalence of ultra-processed foods is contributing to a surge in chronic diseases among Americans.

[00:30] Noel King: The second argument is something that a lot of Americans, regardless of their politics, have concluded. He says our food system is serving us garbage and that garbage is making us sick.

This critique resonates with a growing segment of the population concerned about diet-related health issues, setting the stage for a broader examination of systemic problems in food production and regulation.

Interview with Callie Means: Insights and Arguments

A significant portion of the episode features an interview with Callie Means, an advisor to RFK Jr. and co-author of the book Good Energy. Means elaborates on Kennedy's vision and the motivations behind the MAHA movement.

Big Food and Big Pharma’s Influence

Means argues that both the food and pharmaceutical industries have entrenched interests that undermine public health. She contends that these industries prioritize profit over well-being, contributing to systemic health issues.

[02:11] Callie Means: The NAACP took millions of dollars from Coca Cola to say that we should maintain Coca Cola on food stamps, which is just an absolutely insane public policy because that's literally poisoning lower income kids with a Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.

Economic Incentives and Conflicts of Interest

A core theme in Means' argument is the presence of economic incentives that perpetuate illness. She highlights the revolving door between regulatory agencies and the pharmaceutical industry, suggesting a deep-seated corruption that hinders effective healthcare reforms.

[02:29] Callie Means: The pharmaceutical industry is the lifeblood of academic research. And the NIH and the federal bureaucracies, just by definition are a revolving door, an orgy of corruption between industry and government.

Means also points out the significant role of pharmaceutical funding in politics and research, asserting that these financial ties compromise the integrity of health institutions.

[04:02] Callie Means: It's impossible to argue with the fact that we're the sickest country in the developed world and there's a true chronic disease crisis among children that's pretty hard to argue with.

Pushback and Rebuttals

When confronted with criticisms labeling his arguments as conspiratorial, Means clarifies that her stance is based on economic realities rather than conspiracies.

[06:35] Noel King: Pharmaceutical companies want to keep us sick.

[06:35] Callie Means: I didn't say that. I said their economic incentives for you to sick.

Means emphasizes that the motivations are rooted in economic incentives, not orchestrated conspiracies, and defends the rationality of questioning systemic practices.

[07:04] Noel King: I think that many people would agree with you that when there is money involved, the incentives to grow, to grow, the company can lead to perverse outcomes.

[07:04] Callie Means: Somebody gets fired unless the company grows. The company requires more sick patients to grow. That's an indisputable fact.

Aligning with Political Figures

The conversation shifts to the political alliances supporting the MAHA movement, particularly the backing from former President Donald Trump. Means argues that Trump's focus on combating "corporate cronyism" aligns with Kennedy's health reform agenda.

[08:26] Noel King: Do you think President Trump really is genuinely invested in the MAHA movement?

[08:57] Callie Means: President Trump doesn't think a lot about health policy, but what he does think a lot about is corruption and taking on the swamp and taking on corporate cronyism.

Means perceives Trump as a figure who shares Kennedy's disdain for entrenched corporate interests, thereby reinforcing the movement's strategic positioning.

Potential Policy Changes under RFK Jr.

The episode explores the potential reforms RFK Jr. might implement if confirmed as Health and Human Services Secretary. These include:

• Reforming Dietary Guidelines: Means suggests that Kennedy may push for dietary guidelines that address the harms of ultra-processed foods, challenging existing recommendations influenced by industry funding.

  [19:55] Halina Botamiller Evic: RFK has taken issue with a lot of the experts that advise the government on that process, saying they have too many conflicts of interest with the food industry and sometimes pharma.

• Shift in NIH Research Focus: A reorientation towards preventive and holistic health interventions, moving away from a predominance of pharmaceutical-centric research.

  [19:55] Halina Botamiller Evic: He also wants to reorient NIH research to look more at root causes, more at holistic interventions.

• Regulating Food Additives: Increased scrutiny and potential regulation of food additives to mitigate their health impacts.

  [20:11] Halina Botamiller Evic: They could really close this loophole which allows a lot of substances on the market without pre-market approval.

However, Means acknowledges the significant challenges in implementing these reforms, citing bureaucratic inertia and political resistance.

[21:56] Halina Botamiller Evic: ...it would require going through a regulatory process, you know, allowing those bureaucratic wheels to turn.

Perspectives from Food Fix's Halina Botamiller Evic

Halina Botamiller Evic, founder and editor-in-chief of Food Fix, provides an external perspective on the MAHA movement and RFK Jr.'s potential impact.

Evic notes a political realignment with traditional Democratic concerns about food additives and chronic disease gaining traction within Republican circles, largely influenced by Kennedy's advocacy.

[16:51] Noel King: ...Callie said that Americans will agree on much of what he is saying...

[16:51] Noel King: ...If RFK is confirmed, MAHA is very close to being inside the system, maybe even in a couple of years, being the system.

Evic underscores the urgency of addressing chronic diseases and the necessity for government intervention in food policy to enhance public health outcomes.

[16:57] Noel King: ...Let's say that RFK is confirmed and he is the new leader. He is the new head of the Department of Health and Human Services. What does he want to do to that agency?

[18:19] Halina Botamiller Evic: ...Million Americans who want clean air, clean water in a healthy nation have concerns about toxins in our environment and pesticides in our food.

Evic is cautiously optimistic about the potential reforms but remains aware of the substantial obstacles that lie ahead.

Conclusions

The episode concludes by synthesizing the discussions on RFK Jr.'s controversial positions and the broader implications for American healthcare and food policies. While there is a significant base of support for addressing chronic diseases and reforming the food system, the feasibility of these changes faces substantial political and institutional barriers.

Noel King wraps up by highlighting the bipartisan concerns over public health issues, even as strategic disagreements persist on the methodologies to address them.

[17:11] Halina Botamiller Evic: I think overall, Callie is correct that most Americans would agree on those issues. They're concerned about chronic disease, access to healthy food for kids.

The episode underscores the complex interplay between public health advocacy, political strategy, and entrenched industry interests, setting the stage for ongoing debates as RFK Jr.'s confirmation process unfolds.

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Notable Quotes:

• [04:08] Callie Means: "It's a demonstrable fact that our scientific and healthcare agencies are co-opted."

• [06:41] Noel King: "What are their motivations?"

• [07:04] Callie Means: "The company requires more sick patients to grow. That's an indisputable fact."

• [19:55] Halina Botamiller Evic: "RFK has taken issue with a lot of the experts that advise the government on that process, saying they have too many conflicts of interest with the food industry and sometimes pharma."

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Final Thoughts:

Today, Explained offers a comprehensive examination of RFK Jr.'s bid to reshape American health policy through the MAHA movement. By juxtaposing Kennedy's arguments with expert opinions and political analysis, the episode provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the potential shifts in healthcare and food regulation, as well as the formidable challenges that lie ahead.

Transcript

[Noel King]

Health and Human Services Secretary nominee Robert Flourite Kennedy Jr. Went before the Senate today in fiery confirmation hearings.

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

Did you say Lyme disease is a.

[Noel King]

Highly likely militarily engineered bioweapon?

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

I probably did say that.

[Noel King]

Kennedy makes two big arguments about our health, and the first is deeply divisive. He is skeptical of vaccines.

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

Well, I do believe that autism does come from vaccines.

[Noel King]

Science disagrees. The second argument is something that a lot of Americans, regardless of their politics, have concluded. He says our food system is serving us garbage and that garbage is making us sick. Coming up on Today explained a confidant of Kennedy's, in fact, the man who helped facilitate his introduction to Donald Trump on what the Make America Healthy Again movement wants.

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[Noel King]

You're listening to today, explained Cali. Means is an informal adviser to RFK who went viral on Twitter about two years ago with this explosive claim. Cali had worked as a consultant for Coca Cola, and he said that he'd witnessed Coke give millions of dollars to various groups to ensure that sugar taxes failed and that soda was included in food stamp funding.

[Callie Means]

The NAACP took millions of dollars from Coca Cola to say that we should maintain Coca Cola on food stamps, which is just an absolutely insane public policy because that's literally poisoning lower income kids with a Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.

[Noel King]

Callie went on to co author a book with his sister, Dr. Casey Means, called Good Energy, and he founded a company called True Med. Today he maintains deep skepticism of Big Food and Big Pharma, and he contends that these industries have economic incentives not to make Americans well, but but to keep us sick.

[Callie Means]

In hindsight, what I saw is that the health care system is working to propagate a system where more Americans are sick and to perform interventions on those Americans not to cure any disease, but manage it. And that's 95% of our medical spending. 95% of our medical spending is management of chronic disease. So examples of that are in this invisible hand at work where I don't even think people realize what they're doing is working for Coca Cola funding millions of dollars to the American Diabetes Association. I saw that. So why is Coca Cola funding the American Diabetes Association? And why would the American Diabetes association be accepting money from Coca Cola when we have A diabetes crisis among children. When it's liquid diabetes, it's high sugar drinks. So there's actually this interplay between our food system, our ultra processed food system that's getting people addicted, that's getting people sick, and healthcare system that stands silent. So that's on the food side. On the pharmaceutical side, it's the rigging of institutions. The pharmaceutical industry is the lifeblood of academic research. And the NIH and the federal bureaucracies, just by definition are a revolving door, an orgy of corruption between industry and government. I mean, 11 of the 12 past FDA directors literally left the FDA and the next day walked into a pharmaceutical office. I had a list of Stanford and Harvard professors that we were going to funnel money to. You know, these aren't, you know, apparent corruption. It's ranked corruption. And I saw that.

[Noel King]

Kelly, what do you hear as the main pushback against you? What do your critics argue?

[Callie Means]

Well, they resort to ad hominem attacks. If you really stay on these unimpeachable messages, I think they're pretty hard to disagree with. It's a demonstrable fact that our scientific and healthcare agencies are Co opted. 75% of the FDA department that oversees drug approvals is funded by the pharmaceutical industry itself. Itself. NIH bureaucrats are able to take royalties from drugs, which they did during COVID It's also impossible to argue with the fact that we're the sickest country in the developed world and there's a true chronic disease crisis among children that's pretty hard to argue with. So what happens is the healthcare industry is the largest and fastest growing industry in the country. It's the most powerful industry in the country. The pharmaceutical industry is the biggest funder of politicians themselves, scientific research, regulatory agencies, the media itself. So they control a lot of our institutions, just by definition.

[Noel King]

I've seen some of the ad hominem attacks. I've also seen another line of criticism about you and what you have to say, which is that there's this claim. I mean, you've made it right. There's a claim that there's almost a conspiracy at play here that involves big food companies, pharmaceutical companies, medical schools. It goes all the way to the top levels of government. I wonder if you can explain that aspect of your message. Why does everything. Because you know that many people will be turned off by kind of what they view as conspiratorial thinking. Might it make sense to temper this a little bit? Do you think part of the problem is like, you know, it sounds a bit nutty. Someone Might say, right.

[Callie Means]

Well, it sounds nutty that I said.

[Noel King]

The idea that everybody is in league to keep Americans sick.

[Callie Means]

I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I completely dispute the premise of your question. I said that the pharmaceutical industry makes money when people are sick and loses money when they're healthy. That's not a conspiracy. That's a demonstrable statement of economic fact. And hospitals make money from fee for service. Many friends from Harvard Business School of mine work at hospitals and their job is dependent on filling the beds. That's not a conspiracy.

[Noel King]

I'm gonna push just a little bit further on this, Kelly, because there are statements of fact that you are making y. They will pass a fact check. It's the idea that pharmaceutical companies want to keep us sick.

[Callie Means]

I didn't say that.

[Noel King]

Pharmaceutical companies want to keep us sick.

[Callie Means]

I didn't say that. I said their economic incentives for you to sick.

[Noel King]

Well, the economic incentive is the want. I mean, it's America. It's a capitalist society.

[Callie Means]

No, I didn't talk about their motivations.

[Noel King]

What are their motivations?

[Callie Means]

This is. The largest industry in the country, is healthcare. A pharmaceutical executive gets fired if there's not growth. Growth of pharmaceutical. The pharmaceutical industry presupposes and necessitates more sick people.

[Noel King]

You're saying there is an economic incentive.

[Callie Means]

Somebody gets fired unless the company grows. The company requires more sick patients to grow. That's an indisputable fact.

[Noel King]

I think that many people would agree with you that when there is money involved, the incentives to grow, to grow, the company can lead to perverse outcomes. Like a lot of sick Americans. You are the founder of a company that sells, among other things, supplements, fitness classes, fitness equipment. I was on this morning. You have some good sales. You personally have an economic incentive in this too. And I wonder, is there any part of you that thinks maybe I should just be the guy that says the thing but not try to make money off it?

[Callie Means]

Well, that's inaccurate. My company facilitates third party medical interventions to recommend whether exercise, supplementation, food, in some cases is a medically appropriate intervention.

[Noel King]

And you're not making any profit?

[Callie Means]

No, no. Hold on.

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

Excuse me.

[Callie Means]

Excuse me. No, I don't think we should expect nobody to make money. I think everyone's financial conflicts should be highly exposed. My company makes money when a third party provider recommends efficacious treatments of root cause nonpharmaceutical interventions. My company will make money when more people are exercising and more people are eating broccoli. And I am absolutely fine that being exposed and that being scrutinized of whether I'm in the pocket of big exercise of big broccoli.

[Noel King]

President Trump appointed a seed oil lobbyist to be chief of staff of the usda. He fought Obama era rules to cut ultra processed foods from school lunch. He made RFK eat a Big Mac for a photo op. In the 2024 election, President Trump overwhelmingly won in America's farm dependent counties. Those are areas where there is a lot of farming. And you would assume the President has to really take care not to alienate big Ag. Do you think President Trump really is genuinely invested in the MAHA movement?

[Callie Means]

Well, he didn't have to appoint Bobby Kennedy. He didn't have to say at every single rally that he was gonna have Bobby Kennedy go wild on health. So President Trump said this. He doesn't think a lot about health policy, but what he does think a lot about is corruption and taking on the swamp and taking on corporate cronyism. And I think he's really seen in Bobby Kennedy how the forces that profit from sick children are a great example of what the foundation of President Trump's candidacy is about, which is corruption holding us down. So, yes, I don't think there's any Cabinet secretary that there's more demonstrated history with and bonding with during the campaign than Bobby Kennedy.

[Noel King]

There is an area here that is deeply divisive and it will come up again and again. We can predict in Mr. Kennedy's hearing, and that that is his views on vaccines. So he has said before that he believes autism comes from vaccines. He runs a nonprofit children's health defense that consistently cast out on vaccines, on the schedule on which they're administered, on the ingredients in them, on whether they protect or actually cause chronic illnesses. Do Mr. Kennedy's positions on vaccines concern you at all?

[Callie Means]

What Bobby Kennedy has consistently said about vaccines during the campaign is that they should be studied like any other pharmaceutical product. Blanket trust of pharmaceutical companies is not a good idea either. And continued scientific research on interventions we're providing to the American people, whether that be pharmaceuticals or the other billion prescriptions we're writing in America a year, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. And even what you mentioned about the Children's health defense, you didn't say that they're attacking all vaccines in general. You said they're questioning the pharmaceutical schedule, they're questioning specific ingredients. I mean, I don't know. You know, we should be scrutinizing each formulation and whether that's safe and which the safest vaccine is. I mean, that's a good thing to do. You know, we have demonstrably different schedules than other countries. Like, you know, continued research and refining of that seems like a reasonable thing to do. So I think there's a lot of frankly, pharma money and bad money making that the key issue. Even though he's talking about much wider things.

[Noel King]

You know, our parents are old enough to remember polio. We're in the millennial generation, and polio feels like it was a million years ago. It really wasn't. Americans broadly are susceptible to conspiratorial thinking. One of the concerns that. I know you don't like the word conspiratorial, but let me offer you the concern as I've heard it articulated. Americans are going to decide they don't trust vaccines broadly. They are not going to vaccinate their children. And that will return us to a generation and a time that most people just don't want to go back to.

[Callie Means]

I think you just painted an extremely pessimistic and nihilistic view of the American people. What an unfounded statement to say that they're prone to conspiracy thinking. That's kind of a dismissive statement.

[Noel King]

Honestly. I myself am prone to. I am.

[Callie Means]

Well, maybe that's being rational. Maybe that's being prone to questioning things. Listen, this is what President Trump and Bobby talked about during the campaign. And I strongly believe the American people are rational. The American people don't want their kids to be sick. I really commend and respect the media hearkening back and their concern for polio. Right. And polio coming back. But I would push you if you or anyone else that's concerned about childhood health, which is the real issue here, we should be concerned about what's happening right now. We have a chronic disease crisis. We have a truly societally destabilizing event happening. Yes, I agree we should keep polio at bay. But like, that's, that's not even on the top 10 list.

[Noel King]

Let me ask you a last question. If Mr. Kennedy is confirmed, Maha, the Make America Healthy Again movement, is very close to being inside the system, maybe even in a couple of years, being the system. And some people might say, well, that's when the work gets really hard.

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

Right.

[Noel King]

It's easier to be an outsider than it is to be an insider. Do you have any thoughts on that, on what it might be like for this at the moment outsider movement to operate on the inside? Do you think it'll be tough?

[Callie Means]

What the promise of Maha is? Is Bobby a reform minded person? I would Say a magnetic, incredible leader is putting a stake in the ground that we need to move to a more preventative model and a more chronic disease reversal focused model of health. That's his stake. And I had a really profound conversation with the dean of a med school recently, and he was honest and he said, listen, everyone in the faculty lounge thinks Bobby's a whack job. And if you steer NIH funding to more preventative outcomes, and that's kind of where the NIH is going, they're going to kick and scream and complain and say, that's stupid, but they're going to write grants for what the NIH is saying they want. And if you can win and keep this kind of vibe and this movement towards that more preventative pull, in four years and six years, Bobby will be gone. But if that preventative direction that the health incentives go towards stays that way, in six years, it'll be the norm. In six years, it won't be about Bobby being crazy. It'll just be like, this is how things are done. And that's. The stakes right now is we're trying to. We've lost our way a bit. Our health incentives are too focused on waiting for people to get sick and then managing those conditions. I would argue profiting from those conditions. What we're trying to do is get conflicts of interest out of the system and steer the sizable incentives that the government creates towards a more preventative future that asks, how can we actually prevent and reverse these diseases? That's the fight right now, and we just have to continue to win that argument at the highest level. These are unimpeachable ideas that most Americans agree with. It's not going to be total shock and awe. We're not going to be able to change everything at once. But we really have changed the country. If we can accomplish that, momentum shift to that world.

[Noel King]

Calimenes, the book is Good Energy. The company is Trumed. Thank you so much for taking the time for us today. We really appreciate it.

[Callie Means]

Thank you.

[Noel King]

Before we go, you heard Callie say that the health care industry is the biggest in America. In fact, the biggest industry in America is quite hard to determine. When you get right down to it, the biggest funder of academic research is not, as he said, the healthcare industry. It is, in fact, the federal government, regulators and media do get a lot of money from the healthcare industry, but it is not their biggest funder. And now a note from our funders.

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[Callie Means]

You're listening to Today Explained.

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

My name is Halyna Bodimiller Evic. I'm the founder and editor in chief of Food Fix, which is a newsletter about food policy. I've been covering these issues in Washington for about 15 years.

[Noel King]

In the first half of the show, we talked to Callie Means, who's an advisor to RFK Jr. And Callie told us that Americans will agree on much of what he is saying. That as a population, we are sicker more often than we should be for longer than we should be. What do you think of the points that he makes?

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

I think overall, Callie is correct that most Americans would agree on those issues. They're concerned about chronic disease, access to healthy food for kids. You know, there's a lot of questions about why our rates of diet related diseases have continued to climb. Diabetes, obesity. These diseases are not just costly for the healthcare system, but they really affect people's lives. So there is deep concern. I think where we get into some division is what to do about that and what the government's role is. And that's, I think, where the rubber is really going to meet the road here. So maha first became, I think, an actual term that was entering like the fray, if you will, in August when RFK Jr had dropped out of the presidential race and he endorsed Donald Trump, which surprised a lot of people.

If I'm given the chance to fix the chronic disease crisis and reform our food production, I promise that within two years we will watch chronic disease burden lift dramatically. We will make Americans healthy again.

And in this alliance, Trump then adopted some of the platform around food. So you then started hearing then candidate Trump saying, like, I want to get the toxins out of food. You know, I want to make America healthy again.

Millions and millions of Americans who want clean air, clean water in a healthy nation have concerns about toxins in our environment and pesticides in our food.

This immediately perked my ears up because I've been covering these issues for a long time and generally you would hear those arguments being made on the left and Democrats, you know, here in Washington weren't getting much traction on them. But those are the folks who were raising those arguments. So then when I heard Trump raising those issues, I immediately thought, something is happening here that is fundamentally different. There is some political realignment that is happening you know, up until even a couple months ago, I couldn't remember ever hearing a Republican talk about food additives on Capitol Hill. And as of September, we were seeing senators like, openly and publicly saying, you know, FDA needs to look at Red Dye 3 or whatever the issue was. And that was just a real turn of events.

We gotta help, you know, get our kids healthy, chronic disease viruses. And RFK Jr. Is the guy to do that.

[Noel King]

Let's say that RFK is confirmed and he is the new leader. He is the new head of the Department of Health and Human Services. What does he want to do to that agency? What has he said?

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

We're waiting to hear details, but I think in general, he has talked about, you know, getting conflicts of interest out of healthcare decisions and also food decisions. So I focus on food. One of the big issues has been the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, which is the official nutrition advice from the government. RFK has taken issue with a lot of the experts that advise the government on that process, saying they have too many conflicts of interest with the food industry and sometimes pharma. He wants to really reform that process. We don't know exactly how, but HHS and USDA work together on those guidelines and they're actually set to come out in 2025. So he could have a lot of influence over what those guidelines say. For example, the advisory committee that just wrapped up told the government that there wasn't enough evidence to essentially recommend that Americans consume less ultra processed foods. Kennedy himself has been extremely critical of ultra processed foods. So that's one area where perhaps, you know, the guidelines would say something about ultra processed foods. So there are issues like that. He also wants to reorient NIH research to look more at root causes, more at holistic interventions. So not as much focused on pharma and sort of traditional medical interventions. Food additives cracking down potentially on food additives. Although I have a lot of questions about whether or not the Trump administration is really going to regulate, which is what you would have to do to crack down on food additives. RFK has also made a lot of claims about completely changing the food system on the USDA side, which he will not have purview over. But he's talked about changing farm subsidies, cleaning up school meals, so actually banning processed foods from school meals. Just a really upending that multi billion dollar program.

[Noel King]

How challenging will it be to make reforms within the food system?

[Halina Botamiller Evic]

So it really depends on the issue. If you're talking about something like totally changing how we subsidize food in this country that would require Congress, you would have to write a farm bill that's going to reform the system. And that a lot of that falls over at usda, which RFK would not have jurisdiction over. That is Brooke Rollins, who's been nominated for that position. And she's much more of, I think, a status quo pick. So that would be one area where it would be very difficult. I would say exceedingly unlikely that that's going to happen. But on some of the issues that would fall under fda, you could really bring down the hammer on food additives if that were the priority. They could speed up all these post market reviews, which means they take a really hard look at a lot of the chemicals that are already in the food supply. They could really close this loophole which allows a lot of substances on the market without pre market approval. And so there are some policy changes that could happen there, but it would require going through a regulatory process, you know, allowing those bureaucratic wheels to turn. But again, on each of these, it's like pushing a boulder uphill. And so I would not Bet that in five to 10 years we're going to see that reality. But I think that would be the ideal that they would be pushing for. We'll see again the extent to which Republicans in this administration are going to be, you know, using the federal government to push that vision forward. It's in some ways a radical departure from where we are now.

[Noel King]

Halina Botamiller Evic of the Food Fix newsletter Myles Bryan produced today's show. Jolie Myers edited, Andrea Christensdotter and Rob Byers engineered and Laura Bullard is our fact checker. I'm Noel King. It's today expl.

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