RFK Jr.'s vaccine dream team

Summary

Podcast Summary: Today, Explained – "RFK Jr.'s Vaccine Dream Team"

Date: September 22, 2025
Hosts: Noel King, Eric Budman
Guests: William Moss (pediatrician and infectious disease expert; Johns Hopkins), others

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Overview

This episode of Today, Explained examines the recent upheaval and controversy surrounding the U.S. vaccine advisory process, following the appointment of vaccine-skeptical members to the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) by HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The episode delves into the committee’s chaotic first meeting, the changes it recommended to vaccine guidance—particularly for Covid, MMRV, and hepatitis B vaccines—and the broader implications for parents, children, and public trust in vaccines. The second half features expert analysis from Dr. William Moss, who explores the challenges of vaccine schedule design, international differences, and the social divide over vaccination in America.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Context: RFK Jr.'s Panel and Vaccine Debate

• Political Catalyst: President Trump teases an upcoming major medical announcement claiming "an answer to autism," referencing the new vaccine guidance update (00:05).
  • Quote: "I think we found an answer to autism. How about that? Autism tomorrow." – President Trump (00:22)
• Panel Overhaul: HHS Secretary RFK Jr., a long-time vaccine skeptic, appoints a controversial new panel, replacing established vaccine experts with several figures noted for their skepticism, like Martin Kuldorf (02:20).

2. The ACIP Meeting: Chaos, Confusion, and Uncertainty

• Disarrayed Proceedings: The first meeting of the new ACIP panel is described as chaotic and marked by confusion over votes and procedures.
  • Quote: “I'm going to abstain because I'm not quite sure what I'm voting for here.” – ACIP panel member (04:31)
• Revotes and Uncertainty: Votes are retaken due to misunderstandings, yielding opposite outcomes on key measures, underscoring members’ lack of readiness (04:33).

3. Changes to Vaccine Guidance

COVID-19 Vaccine Recommendations (05:51)

• Rollback of Recommendations: The committee steps back from broadly recommending the Covid vaccine for all, now suggesting those over six months “consult with their doctors.”
  • Expert Concern: Public health world worries this will cause further confusion and increase vaccine hesitancy.

MMRV (Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Varicella) Vaccine for Kids (06:26)

• Separated Doses Mandated for Low-Income Children: The panel formalizes that kids on public programs can no longer access the combined shot, but only the separated doses.
  • Insight: Two shots mean more barriers for access; percentage risk of fevers from combined is very slightly higher, but overall risk is still minuscule.
  • Quotes:
    • "With whatever route you take, there's a low risk of febrile seizures... we're talking 0.04% versus 0.08%." – Eric Budman (07:34)
    • "If you had to choose between buying similar hot dogs with or without mercury for your kids, raise your hand if you would pick the mercury containing hot dogs, nobody would." – ACIP member, illustrating decision process confusion (04:54)

Hepatitis B Vaccine for Newborns (08:43)

• No Change, For Now: Pre-meeting speculation suggested a possible delay in the birth dose recommendation, but the committee leaves guidance unchanged.
  • Rationale: Transmission can occur from mother to child during birth, not just sexually or via IV drug use.
  • Quotes:
    • "That's how you get hepatitis B. But you're telling my kid has to take it at one day old." – Panel discussion (09:29)
    • "If the mother accepts, then the insurance company has to pay. It's not mandated." – Clarification of policy (10:34 / 10:40)

4. Broader Implications: Trust, Policy, and Parental Decision-making

• Erosion of Trust in ACIP: For the first time, major bodies like the American Academy of Pediatrics have broken with the ACIP's recommendations.
  • Quote: “Essentially, the trust in this committee is beginning to erode among public health experts.” – Eric Budman (11:54)
• Practical Impact: Most parents can still follow the prior schedule, but low-income families face new restrictions (e.g., combined MMRV’s removal from coverage).
• Why the Committee Matters: Their guidance shapes what insurers and government pay for, and what the public perceives as medically standard (12:21).

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Deeper Dive: Vaccine Schedules, History, and Public Sentiment (feat. Dr. William Moss)

The Evolution of Vaccine Schedules (17:08)

• Historical Standardization: U.S. immunization schedules have matured since the 1930s, seeing major standardization with the 1995 unification by ACIP and the AAP.

  • Quote (on the 1995 unification): “Having this unified immunization schedule... was a big advance.” – William Moss (19:55)

• International Variability: Different schedules abroad (e.g., Denmark, UK) reflect differing disease prevalence, healthcare delivery models, and economic factors.

  • “There's not one true, the best immunization Schedule. These immunization schedules involve trade offs.” – William Moss (20:54)

Debates and Parental Fears (22:40)

• Concerns of “Too Many, Too Soon”: Dr. Moss explains that scientific evidence does not support fears that multiple vaccines overwhelm infants’ immune systems, but acknowledges the visceral discomfort and confusion for parents.

  • Quote: “Our bodies are being exposed to foreign antigens... all the time.” – William Moss (24:14)

• Divide and Shaming: Social polarization intensifies as parents who question schedules are sometimes shamed or labeled anti-vaxxers, even though questioning is understandable parental behavior.

  • Quote: “All parents want to do what's right for their child. But sometimes the risk of the disease can be underestimated, and that's a large part due to the success of vaccines...” – William Moss (25:44)

Reflection and Room for Improvement (26:22)

• Process Matters Most: Moss emphasizes the importance of a trustworthy, evidence-based, and transparent process for updating schedules.
  • Quote: “Not everything's being done exactly right, and there's always room for improvement. That's so critical to making sure that good, sound decisions are being made and to enlist and ensure the trust in those decisions.” – William Moss (26:22)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• President Trump:
  “I think we found an answer to autism. How about that? Autism tomorrow.” (00:22)
• ACIP Confusion:
  “I'm going to abstain because I'm not quite sure what I'm voting for here.” – ACIP member (04:31)
• Risk Comparison:
  “With whatever route you take, there's a low risk of febrile seizures... talking 0.04% versus 0.08%.” – Eric Budman (07:34)
• Insurance vs. Mandate:
  “If the mother accepts, then the insurance company has to pay. It's not mandated.” – Panel discussion (10:34)
• On Parental Concerns:
  “Our bodies are being exposed to foreign antigens... all the time.” – William Moss (24:14)
• Process and Trust:
  “That's so critical to making sure that good, sound decisions are being made and to enlist and ensure the trust in those decisions.” – William Moss (26:22)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:05: President Trump teases "autism" vaccine announcement
• 02:20: Introduction of new ACIP committee and its members
• 04:01–05:18: Chaos and confusion in first ACIP panel meeting
• 05:51–09:03: New/changed recommendations for COVID, MMRV, and hepatitis B vaccines
• 11:54: Decline in public health trust, divergence of AAP recommendations
• 17:08: History of vaccine schedules with Dr. Moss
• 22:40: Parental anxiety and the “too many shots” debate
• 25:44–26:22: Social divide, shaming, and opportunities for improving vaccine guidance

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Tone and Style

The episode is informative, direct, and at times sharply critical. The hosts and guests avoid alarmism but don't hide their concern over procedural chaos and risks to public trust. There is empathy both for parents feeling overwhelmed and for frontline experts navigating a rapidly changing, politically charged environment.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a clear, critical look at how recent politicization and leadership changes threaten the stability and trustworthiness of U.S. vaccine guidance, with potential consequences for parents, children, and public health. It also provides nuanced expert insight into why vaccine schedules exist, how they’re set, and why ongoing criticism, flexibility, and improvement are both inevitable and necessary.

Transcript

[Noel King]

During his eulogy for Charlie Kirk yesterday, President Trump said this and tomorrow we're.

[William Moss]

Going to have one of the biggest announcement really medically, I think in the history of our country. We're going to be doing it with Bobby and Oz and all of the professionals. I think you're going to find it to be amazing. I think we found an answer to autism. How about that? Autism tomorrow.

[Noel King]

An announcement is coming later today. Trump's HHS Secretary Bobby has spent years suggesting a link between vaccines and autism. Last week, RFK Jr. S hand picked panel of vaccine experts met to update US Vaccine guidance and honestly, it was not boring.

[William Moss]

Thank you. Sorry to prolong it. I'm going to abstain because I'm not quite sure what I'm voting for here.

[Noel King]

Ahead on Today explained from Vox, the new vaccine recommendations.

[Eric Budman]

Support for the show today comes from Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Today's news moves fast, but the most.

[William Moss]

Important stories deserve deeper thinking.

[Eric Budman]

Whether you're trying to understand the implications of a policy change or connecting dots across breaking stories, Claude, your new AI collaborator can help you go beyond the headlines. Claude doesn't just summarize the news. It helps you explore the context, analyze the patterns and think through what it all means together. Try Claude for free at Claude AI.

[Noel King]

Todayexplained support for this show comes from Strawberry Me. Be honest.

[Eric Budman]

Are you happy with your job or.

[Noel King]

Are you stuck in one you've outgrown or never wanted in the first place? Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying, but are they actually just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from Strawberry Me help you get unstuck. Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your corner. Get Go to Strawberry Me Unstuck to claim a special offer.

[William Moss]

Today Explained.

[Noel King]

I'm Noel King with Eric Budman. He's a reporter for stat, an online magazine that covers science and medicine. And Eric is here to tell us about last week's meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.

[Eric Budman]

So this is a committee that is convened by the CDC or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to advise American civilians on what vaccines they should get. There has been quite a bit of a shakeup this year in that the experts who were on it were all fired a few months ago and Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Just replaced them all, some earlier in the summer and some just early last week. Many of the people who were on the panel were pretty much gold standard vaccine experts. And I think the general sense in the public health world is that there's a concern that some of the folks who've replaced them are noted vaccine skeptics who in some cases have expressed views that don't really jibe with the evidence.

[William Moss]

I hereby invite each of the nine former CDC directors to have a live public debate with me concerning vaccines.

[Eric Budman]

The chair, Martin Kuldorf, you know, was a famous opponent of COVID vaccine mandates. And the public health establishment was saying, this is a highly protective thing. And Martin Kaldorf was saying CDC and.

[William Moss]

Other agencies lied about the vaccine, and that's the reason why we now have plummeted confidence in vaccines. People will then start asking, well, if they lied about the COVID vaccine, are they lying also about the other vaccines?

[Eric Budman]

I think that that kind of gives you a sense of the general mood of this committee.

[Noel King]

All right, so with that all in mind, the panel met last week, correct?

[Eric Budman]

Yes.

[Noel King]

How did it go?

[William Moss]

Good morning.

[Eric Budman]

We're calling the meeting to order.

[Noel King]

Good morning, everyone.

[William Moss]

My name is Mina Zadeh and I'm serving as.

[Eric Budman]

The meeting was, by all accounts, pretty chaotic. There was some arguing and some fighting, and, you know, in one case, they voted on an issue one way.

[William Moss]

On Thursday, we had one vote, but this is the follow up vote for the VFC vote to make sure that everything is covered under cms, Medicare, and Medicaid.

[Eric Budman]

Then it became clear that members didn't fully understand the wording of what they were voting on.

[William Moss]

I'm going to abstain because I'm not quite sure what I'm voting for here.

[Eric Budman]

Then they revoted, and then that vote came out with the opposite conclusion. So that kind of gives you a sense.

[William Moss]

Cody and I share the same confusion. Garrett, I'm still confused. If we vote no on this. I'm sorry, sir, I didn't hear appropriately. Perhaps I'm getting tired. If you had to choose between buying similar hot dogs with or without mercury for your kids, raise your hand if you would pick the mercury containing hot dogs, nobody would.

[Noel King]

Yeah. It gives you a sense that maybe this was not the most sort of professional performance by the new dream team.

[Eric Budman]

No. And I think it gives you a sense that some of the members who were only recently added to the committee may not have fully understood the procedures and practices of the committee itself.

[William Moss]

We are rookies, and with one exception, this was either our first ACIP meeting or our second.

[Noel King]

All right, so their job was to issue recommendations, and they did in fact, make some new recommendations, starting with the COVID vaccine. What did they say about that?

[Eric Budman]

So for the COVID vaccine, they kind of walked back or Narrowed the recommendation before this committee recommended that people get the vaccine. And now they're saying people above 6 months of age should talk with their doctors about whether it's right for them to get the vaccine. I think there's general concern among the public health world that this narrowed recommendation will cause confusion and or just increase hesitancy to actually get vaccines.

[Noel King]

There was also guidance on the MMRV vaccine for kids. That's measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella. I just learned this. This means chickenpox. RFK Jr has been RFK junioring about this particular vaccine for quite some time.

[William Moss]

Are you recommending the measles vac or not? What I've said and what I said.

[Noel King]

It doesn't sound like you are.

[William Moss]

If that's. Are you gonna let me answer? Are you gonna keep it?

[Eric Budman]

Are you.

[William Moss]

Are you not?

[Noel King]

What did the panel recommend here?

[Eric Budman]

So the panel recommended something that the CDC in some ways had already recommended, but they kind of made it more stringent in a sense. So you can get either MMR with the V separate, so that's measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella separate, or you can get them all together in one vaccine. That's the mmrv. And the committee recommended separating those, so getting those as two separate shots. And that was already something that the CDC had recommended because with whatever route you take, there's a low risk of febrile seizures, and the risk is even lower with separate doses and slightly higher with the combined dose. And so we're talking 0.04% versus 0.08%. So very small percentages. That said, with the new recommendation, low income kids will no longer have access to the combined shot and will only have access to the separated shots.

[Noel King]

Why? Can you explain why that matters?

[Eric Budman]

So I think people in general in the public health world realize that just getting people into doctor's offices can sometimes be a hurdle to getting them the protection against illnesses that they need. And so, you know, one shot versus two could make the difference between getting those vaccines and not. So that's one of the considerations here. And again, public health experts worry that this could just increase confusion and vaccine hesitancy overall.

[Noel King]

This panel was supposed to issue new guidance on the timing of the hepatitis B vaccine for babies. The big news late last week was that they didn't. The panel did not do that. What exactly happened here? Tell us the backstory and then walk us through where we landed.

[Eric Budman]

So there has been quite a lot of hubbub about the hepatitis B vaccine. Because some people have said, and this is in the eyes of many, a little bit of an oversimplification. Why do we need to give babies a vaccine for a disease that is transmitted sexually or through intravenous drug use? You get it through drug use and sexually transmitted.

[William Moss]

That's how you get hepatitis B. But you're telling my kid has to.

[Noel King]

Take it at one day old.

[Eric Budman]

You're not.

[William Moss]

That's not science.

[Eric Budman]

And folks in the public health world say, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is the best way to actually protect people throughout their lifetimes. Because not all mothers are tested for hepatitis B in the United States. And it's possible for mothers to transmit this disease to their babies. If you vaccinate in the first hours of the first 24 hours of life, that provides protection for those who say.

[William Moss]

Why should a child be vaccinated for a sexually transmitted disease when they're at birth? The child passes through the birth canal.

[Eric Budman]

And is exposed to the same secretions.

[William Moss]

As one would otherwise. And that passage through the birth canal makes that child vulnerable to the virus being transmitted.

[Eric Budman]

There was a lot of discussion before this meeting about whether they delay that recommendation, delay the age at which that vaccine was recommended. And by the way, as Dr. Menorah.

[William Moss]

Says, this doesn't mandate, doesn't say you.

[Eric Budman]

Can'T leave the hospital unless you get it. It says that if the mother accepts.

[William Moss]

Then the insurance company has to pay.

[Noel King]

It's not mandated.

[Eric Budman]

And ultimately this committee decided, we don't know that that's actually going to be more protective rather than harmful. And so let's just keep the recommendation as is until we can vote at a later date.

[Noel King]

So the committee exhibited some restraint there.

[Eric Budman]

Yes, and I think people expected this to go a different way.

[Noel King]

Eric, how do these recommendations materially affect people as we go forward? Like, if a parent is okay with the way things used to be, can they ignore the recommendations and just do it the way they used to do it?

[Eric Budman]

In general, yes, there is, you know, for some subset that combined MMRV vaccine is no longer paid for, but insurance should still cover Covid vaccines for people if they decide that that's what they want. I think the. Essentially, the trust in this committee is beginning to erode among public health experts where the American Academy of Pediatrics has now broken with this committee, which is a pretty big deal. And, you know, they're recommending different things. And I think generally public health experts are wary of what this committee has to say.

[Noel King]

If parents can ignore the recommendations from this panel, if they can say, I like the way that it went before. I had no problems. I'm going to keep doing what I did. Why do this committee's recommendations matter so much? Do they matter a lot?

[Eric Budman]

So this committee's recommendations matter for a few reasons. They can influence what vaccines get paid for by insurers and I think there's a general sense that this committee is helping the nation as a whole understand what vaccines they should get. And so for trust to be eroding in this committee is essentially a kind of reversal of what's been going on since this committee was formed in the 1960s.

[Noel King]

That was stats Eric Budman. Coming up, we are divided over vaccines, Pediatrician and infectious disease expert on what to do about it. Support for Today Explained comes from Quince Quince wants to remind you the seasons are changing again, which means you might want to update your closet for some more weather appropriate garbs. Quince says they have all the elevated essentials for fall. 100% Mongolian cashmere starting at $50, washable silk tops and skirts that perfectly tailored denim that you do know so well. Quint says that all of their Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Here's Nisha I got two sweaters from Quint for the fall. I got the organic cotton cropped cardigan and the organic cotton boyfriend crew neck sweater. I have seen the cardigan on social media a lot and I was looking for great cardigan for the fall. I got it in a brown color and it just seems like something that will really pair well with a lot of things and work with a lot of different outfits. You can keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from Quince. You can go to quince.com explain for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quincee.com explained. Explained to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com explained.

[Eric Budman]

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[William Moss]

Don'T want to freak yourself out, maybe don't do that.

[Eric Budman]

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[William Moss]

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[Noel King]

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[William Moss]

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[Eric Budman]

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[Noel King]

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[William Moss]

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[Noel King]

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[William Moss]

Explain. My name is William Moss. I'm a pediatrician by training, specialist in infectious diseases. I'm a professor in the Department of Epidemiology here at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and the executive Director of the International Vaccine Access Center.

[Noel King]

When and why did we first start thinking that kids should be getting vaccines on this unified schedule?

[William Moss]

Yeah, so there's actually a long history of guidance on immunizations here in this country and it's gotten obviously more complicated as more vaccines have been introduced. But you can trace it all the way back to the 1930s when the American Academy of Pediatrics started issuing guidance on childhood vaccines.

[Noel King]

It is no longer necessary to remember the doses by age, weight, et cetera. The important thing to know is how long the patient has been ill and to appreciate the severity of the disease.

[William Moss]

At that time, it was really just the smallpox vaccine and the diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis vaccine. Then as more vaccines got added, so for example, in the mid-1950s, the inactivated polio vaccine. Make use of increasing supplies of vaccines. Help your child grow up strong and straight free from crippling polio. In the early 1960s, the measles vaccine and the oral polio vaccine. But today, Mama has learned that Johnny doesn't even have to get measles. We have a vaccine to prevent it. Isn't that nice? It was recognized that we needed really kind of think through what the appropriate schedule should be. Immunization schedule should be for children. Protect the Johnny in your life from measles. Have him immunized. And so in 1964, the advisory committee on Immunization Practices was established.

[Noel King]

The committee is charged with the responsibility of advising the Surgeon General regarding the most effective application in public health practice of specific preventative agents.

[William Moss]

So that committee has a six, 60 year history. And they kind of issued ad hoc recommendations. The American Academy of Pediatrics continued to issue their guidelines. But I would say it was in 1995 that ACIP, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, kind of got together with the American Academy of Pediatrics and issued what is really considered kind of this first unified immunization schedule for children.

[Noel King]

I don't know if you were around and working in the field in 1995, but I would imagine that the feeling at the time was, okay, we are now organized. We have this under control. Everybody's gonna be more or less following the same rules. Do I have that right?

[William Moss]

Yes, I think there was. I was in my early days of my pediatric TR in 1995, and I think there was a recognition that we needed to have this unification of the immunization schedule, or standardization may be a better word, of this immunization schedule. And it was really bringing together the key expert groups, getting them aligned. There were some differences before that, which created some confusion. So having this unified immunization schedule in the mid-1990s was a big advance.

[Noel King]

You've worked a lot all across the world. And so you know that these vaccine schedules differ even across developed countries. If the schedule that we have here in the US Is what is best, why do Denmark and the UK have different schedules for childhood vaccinations?

[William Moss]

Yeah, so the way I would think about it is that there's not one true, you know, the best immunization Schedule. These immunization schedules involve trade offs. So for example, one thing a big consideration is just the disease burden. The epidemiology of a particular disease. How big of a problem is it in a particular country? What age is most impacted by that disease? Is it multiple doses or a single dose of a vaccine? Can the vaccine doses be aligned so that you can minimize the number of healthcare visits? And then lastly, economic considerations, the cost of the vaccine, who's paying for the vaccine in that, in that setting. The UK and the United States have very different health care financing systems and so that could drive differences in decisions.

[Noel King]

You can see that not having one right answer, even though that is a fairly common occurrence in like human life, not having one answer, one right answer gives people pause.

[William Moss]

Yeah, I think I can understand that, but I don't think it should. I think people can understand that like you said, in many things in life there's not one right answer. And I think that also opens the door for some flexibility. If a parent wants to space out a vaccine, they can do that in consultation with their healthcare provider. But there are risks obviously in delaying vaccination because then their child is at risk for that disease in that longer period before they're vaccinated.

[Noel King]

Vaccines and the schedule on which they're administered have become really contentious. Right. And we know that there is some conversation that just isn't helpful. It only serves to confuse and cloud things. But we also know there are some well meaning parents who are very lost and very overwhelmed by the process. And one of the questions that I think you hear again and again, this is what I've been seeing in my reading is that there is concern that infants are getting too many vaccines at the same time. What is the best way for parents to think about that question?

[William Moss]

I'll say there are, there are a couple things kind of nested within that. One is just, you know, seeing their child get multiple injections with a needle at the same time, knowing that that causes their child discomfor. And I think that is, that is part of it. Sometimes parents are concerned and I think this is where the evidence is less supportive is, you know, that their child's being, their child's immune system is being exposed to too much at one time.

[Noel King]

I'm not a parent who can blindly just like walk into a doctor's office and say, yes, please give my child three shots today. So that never sat right with me. But I'm not anti vax. So instead of dumping all of that into my baby's body at 2 months old I decided to do an alternate vaccine schedule.

[William Moss]

I don't think there's any kind of biological or immunological kind of basis for that. Our bodies are being exposed to foreign antigens, as we call them, you know, all the time. But so I think it's very important for those of us in public health, and certainly those on the front line administering vaccines to, to listen to parents, to hear their concerns, but to also try to allay any, any kind of unfounded fears.

[Noel King]

There has been a drawing of sides here that seems very unfortunate to me. So, for example, if you have questions about the vaccine schedule, people will say you're a conspiracist, you're a threat to public health, you're a threat to my kids. Y' all have forgotten what it looks like to have to contend with those.

[Eric Budman]

Diseases, but trust y' all do not want to find.

[Noel King]

Go get vaccinated. Vaccinate your children. I'm asking you to do it for yourselves and for my daughters. If you feel comfortable with the existing science around vaccines, then you're participating in a broken system. You're not asking the kinds of questions you should ask on behalf of your kids.

[William Moss]

My big point on vaccines in general.

[Eric Budman]

Is why the hell is a parent a bad person to ask a question about what they're injecting into their child's arms?

[William Moss]

That is my choice.

[Noel King]

As a mother, I thought mom shaming was something of the past. I don't tell you how to raise your child. Don't tell me how to raise mine. What do you make of this divide?

[William Moss]

The way I kind of look at it when I put my pediatrician's hat on is that all parents want to do what's right for their child. But what I see sometimes is that the risk of the disease can be underestimated. And that's a large part due to the success of vaccines and the fact that we don't see many of these vaccine preventable diseases anymore.

[Noel King]

Is there any room for improvement on our childhood vaccine schedules? The design of them, the way that they're updated, the messaging around them, or is everything being done exactly right?

[William Moss]

Oh, I would certainly say not everything's being done exactly right, and there's always room for improvement. But what I'll emphasize is what's really important is that that process by which the immunization schedule is reviewed and updated, that's so critical to making sure that good, sound decisions are being made and to enlist and ensure the trust in those decisions.

[Eric Budman]

Foreign.

[Noel King]

William Moss of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and the International Vaccine Access Center. Today's team Peter Balanon, Rosen, Ariana Espuru, Jolie Myers, Patrick Boyd, Adrian Lilly and Laura Bullard. Do you like a sale? If so, you should consider becoming a VOX member now. Today members get ad free versions of this show. Unlimited reading on Vox.com a member exclusive newsletter Pics of Sean's feet. That can't be right. We can't do this without members. Sign up now and you will save more than 30% off an annual membership. Go to vox.commembers to join.

[William Moss]

SAM.