Today, Explained – "Saudi Arabia is no joke" (October 9, 2025) — Episode Summary

Overview

This episode of Today, Explained dives into the controversy surrounding American comedians performing at the inaugural Riyadh Comedy Festival in Saudi Arabia, a government-funded event amid the kingdom’s well-documented human rights abuses. Hosts Noel King and guests, including Abdullah Aloda (Senior Director at the Middle East Democracy Center, Washington, D.C.) and comedy journalist Seth Simons, discuss the implications of international entertainers accepting Saudi money, the government’s attempts at “whitewashing” its image through arts and sports, and the backlash within the comedy community.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lack of Free Speech and Political Repression in Saudi Arabia

• Draconian Laws Used to Silence Dissent
  • Criticizing Saudi foreign policy, the king, or the Crown Prince is treated as terrorism.
  • The anti-cybercrime law criminalizes vaguely defined activities such as “questioning the tranquility of society.”
    • "Questioning the wisdom of the king or the Crown Prince is an act of terrorism." — Abdullah Aloda [02:28]
• Consequences for Political Speech
  • Abdullah's father, a reform-minded scholar, has been imprisoned since 2017 for a tweet calling for Saudi-Qatar reconciliation; he faces the death penalty on charges including, "corrupting earth by trying to transform the monarchy into a democratic system.”
    • “They are seeking the death penalty against him on 37 charges, including... calling to free arbitrary detainees and supporting democratic revolution during the Arab Spring in 2011.” — Abdullah Aloda [03:27]

2. The Saudi Comedy Festival: Money, Optics, and Whitewashing

• Huge Sums Offered to Top-Tier Talent
  • Star comedians (e.g. Dave Chappelle, Aziz Ansari, Bill Burr) reportedly received up to $375,000 or more for a single performance—several times the typical U.S. rate.
    • "I was speaking to people … usually given like 50 to 70,000 for a night, and in Saudi Arabia… like 200 to 300 to 500,000 for one night." — Abdullah Aloda [05:10]
• Saudi Public Investment Fund (PIF) Role
  • PIF, headed by the Crown Prince, directly funds these cultural events; PIF’s subsidiary was implicated in the transport of the Khashoggi hit squad.
    • "This public investment fund has another subsidy that is called prime aviation. Prime aviation was used during the Khashoggi murder." — Abdullah Aloda [06:44]
• Connection to Broader Sportswashing Strategy
  • Similar investments in sports: buying major franchises (e.g., Newcastle United), sponsoring the PGA/LIV Golf merger, securing events like UFC matches, Esports Olympics, and bidding for the FIFA World Cup (awarded for 2034).
    • "All of this is part of this scheme of whitewashing machine that they have been running all along." — Abdullah Aloda [08:50]

3. Debate: Is There an Upside to Western Participation?

• Can Cultural Exchange Influence Reform?
  • Some comedians—citing audience enthusiasm and exposure to new ideas—frame their participation as potentially opening Saudi society.
    • “A comedy festival felt like something that’s pushing things to be more open. There’s some good in it, maybe some bad in it…” — Aziz Ansari (via Seth Simons) [21:02]
• Limits of this Argument
  • Abdullah Aloda points out the limits, citing forced contracts forbidding criticism and the regime’s “transnational repression”:
    • "If you go to this place... just few miles from where my father is detained… and you preach about free speech, I think this is hypocritical to say the least." — Abdullah Aloda [10:41]
    • “How are you going to talk about free speech while you just signed this kind of contract?” — Abdullah Aloda [11:54]

4. Comedy Community Backlash and Ethics

• Pushback from Other Comedians and Critics
  • Notably, peers like Marc Maron, Dave Cross, and Atsuko Okatsuka criticized participants, viewing the gigs as betrayal of comedy’s alleged stance on free speech.
    • "The same guy that’s going to pay them is the same guy that paid that guy to bonesaw Jamal Khashoggi and put him in a suitcase. But don’t let that stop the yucks." — Marc Maron (quoted by Seth Simons) [18:57]
• Hypocrisy in Accepting Saudi Money While Preaching Free Speech
  • Discussion of how many of today’s comedians see themselves as free speech crusaders—yet they performed in a country where jokes can be criminalized and even lead to death.
    • “They treat this as assault on their civil liberties... so to go perform and take money from a regime that... locks people up and even executes people for what they say seemed a little hypocritical.” — Seth Simons [18:10]
    • “It’s embarrassing to go on stage and tell jokes that if some of the audience tweeted… could lead to them being executed.” — Seth Simons [19:10]
• Comedians Justify Participation
  • Arguments include cultural exchange, claims of not needing to censor themselves (except for specific forbidden topics), and references to feeling celebrated as celebrities.
    • “They said they didn’t have to censor themselves, even though they sort of agreed to a contract that forbade criticizing the Saudi government and religion.” — Seth Simons [21:14]
    • “Whitney Cummings said that no one has treated her as well in the U.S. as the Saudis treated her.” — Seth Simons [22:02]
  • Notable moment: Chris DiStefano’s “dirty jokes” and anecdotes about the audience’s hunger for boundary-pushing comedy.
• High Compensation as Motivation
  • Tim Dillon reportedly received $375,000 for one show (and cited others making $1.6 million).
    • “I believe in my own financial well being.” — Tim Dillon (as paraphrased by Simons) [20:08]

5. Historical Context of Comedy and Free Speech

• Referencing Lenny Bruce and George Carlin
  • Comparison with older comedians who actually suffered state persecution for their acts. Modern performers' "free speech" rhetoric is contrasted with the low real risk they face in the U.S.
    • "Both those guys... took actual heat. They were, you know, targeted by the state in a way that none of these comedians have been." — Seth Simons [23:37]
• Question: Will the Scandal Last?
  • Open debate if this controversy will have lasting repercussions; fan backlash across social media was more intense than comedians may have anticipated.
    • "It is very notable that this caused the uproar it did. And even fans... are bringing it up pretty constantly." — Seth Simons [25:17]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Law in Saudi Arabia:

  • “If we were having this conversation in Saudi Arabia, you would get in trouble.” — Noel King [03:07]
  • “I would be tried in the terrorism court and would be convicted for so many years—if not executed.” — Abdullah Aloda [03:12]

• On Blood Money:

  • “I think if we use Bill Burr’s own words, I would say the money that Bill Burr is taking…is basically blood money.” — Abdullah Aloda [10:08]

• On Free Speech Rhetoric vs. Actions:

  • "They treat this as assault on their civil liberties…to go and perform and take money from a regime that is notoriously repressive…seemed a little hypocritical." — Seth Simons [18:10]
  • “It’s embarrassing to go on stage and tell jokes that if some of the audience members tweeted…could lead to them being executed.” — Seth Simons [19:10]

• On Whitewashing and Image:

  • “It’s the optics of it. That’s what they all care about at the end.” — Abdullah Aloda [07:21]
  • “All of this is part of this scheme of whitewashing machine that they have been running all along.” — Abdullah Aloda [08:50]

Key Timestamps

• [02:28] — Abdullah Aloda explains Saudi laws equating criticism with terrorism.
• [03:27] — Abdullah recounts his father’s arrest and charges.
• [04:37] - [05:10] — On the festival, government sponsorship, and outsized payments to comedians.
• [06:44] — Public Investment Fund, Khashoggi killing connection.
• [08:50] — The concept of sportswashing.
• [10:08] — Discussion of “blood money” and performer hypocrisy.
• [10:41] - [11:54] — On the hypocrisy of free speech claims in Saudi.
• [21:02] — Some comedians’ defense: cultural exchange and openness.
• [23:37] — Comparison to Carlin and Lenny Bruce; modern consequences.
• [25:17] — The extent of comedic community and fan backlash.

Tone & Conclusion

The episode maintains a critical, at times darkly humorous tone, unflinchingly highlighting the ethical complexity and hypocrisy of internationally renowned comedians participating in Saudi state-sponsored events. Both the breadth of government-sponsored image-making (sports, comedy, entertainment) and the self-contradictions of comics who champion free speech while tacitly endorsing repression “for a check” are scrutinized through real-world anecdotes, industry context, and personal testimony.

Abdullah Aloda’s personal account—his father imprisoned for a tweet, family members used as leverage—serves as a powerful reminder of the stakes. The recurring motif: as long as celebrities accept the money and keep to the regime's rules, the Saudi "whitewashing machine" keeps running.

For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In

This episode offers an in-depth, nuanced exploration of the intersection between Western pop culture, authoritarian image-management, and the real-world consequences for free expression. The conversation pulls no punches, letting both critics and defenders of the comedians’ choices speak in their own words. If you want to understand the global entanglement of entertainment, money, and power, this is essential listening.