Sugar daddies and mommies

Summary

Today, Explained: "Sugar Daddies and Mommies" – A Detailed Summary

Introduction

In the February 21, 2025 episode of Today, Explained titled "Sugar Daddies and Mommies," hosts Sean Rameswaram and Noel King delve into the pervasive yet often unspoken financial support that baby boomers are providing to their adult children. This phenomenon, part of what is being termed the "great wealth transfer," involves trillions of dollars moving from older generations to younger ones, significantly impacting American societal norms, housing markets, and economic stability.

The Great Wealth Transfer

The episode opens by highlighting a significant economic shift: trillions of dollars are flowing from baby boomers to their children and grandchildren. This transfer is reshaping American financial landscapes, particularly in high-cost areas like New York City. Talman Joseph Smith, an economics reporter for the New York Times, elaborates on this trend, stating:

"We're going through a decade in which $16 trillion, trillion with a T, will pass from the boomers to their children and grandkids." [16:50]

Smith further explains that the majority of this wealth transfer is concentrated within the top 10%, particularly the top 1%, encompassing both succession-level affluent families and those who are considered normie affluent, such as doctors, lawyers, and engineers residing in affluent suburbs or major cities.

Parental Support in Action

Madeline Leung Coleman, a features writer for New York Magazine, provides an in-depth look into how this financial aid manifests in New York City. Through a series of 14 interviews, Madeline uncovers that many young New Yorkers rely on their parents for various forms of support, from down payments on homes to covering childcare and educational expenses. One poignant story features a woman who, despite being a teacher married to a finance professional, struggled to buy her first apartment until her parents purchased a studio for her at age 24. This assistance enabled her to eventually acquire a two-bedroom apartment in Manhattan, leading her to question her social class:

"I can't tell. Am I a trust fund kid or am I middle class? I don't even know what middle class is in Manhattan." [03:24]

Another anonymous speaker shares:

"I would not have been able to get the apartment I have in the city, even making almost 200k without my mother as a guarantor." [05:46]

These narratives underscore the dependency on familial financial support for achieving economic milestones that might otherwise seem out of reach.

Emotional and Social Impacts

The episode delves into the emotional complexities faced by those receiving financial aid. Feelings of guilt and shame are prevalent among beneficiaries, as they grapple with the societal expectation of self-sufficiency. An anonymous contributor reflects:

"It is a little bit, like, not embarrassing, but I guess, like, well, maybe, a little bit." [07:48]

Madeline elaborates on this internal struggle:

"A lot of it is really just because people are ashamed that they can't afford everything they have on their own." [08:21]

This sentiment is tied to the American ideal of individualism, where financial independence is often equated with personal success and adulthood. The reliance on parental support challenges these notions, leading to identity confusion and class reassessment among young adults.

Economic Analysis

Talman Joseph Smith provides an economic perspective on the implications of this wealth transfer. He explains that while the transfer may not inherently be inflationary due to the rich's lower propensity to spend additional funds, it does contribute to wealth concentration. Smith notes:

"The rich have gotten richer, much, much richer, tens of trillions of dollars richer. And that has enabled them to manage a higher cost of living, higher home prices and so on." [20:33]

He raises concerns about the sustainability of an economy where upward mobility is increasingly tied to inherited wealth, potentially exacerbating economic disparities and limiting the broader population's financial security.

Racial and Class Considerations

The conversation also touches on the intersection of race and class within the wealth transfer. Smith highlights that:

"They [the top wealth transfer group] are disproportionately white. The vast majority of the wealth transfer will be contained within white families." [19:36]

This demographic skew underscores existing racial economic disparities, as the majority of wealth accumulation and transfer remains within white households, further entrenching systemic inequalities.

Future Implications

Looking ahead, the episode questions the long-term effects of this wealth transfer on American society and the economy. Smith suggests that the growing financial divide could lead to political shifts as the economically advantaged seek policies to maintain or expand their wealth, potentially clashing with broader societal needs for economic equity and mobility.

He posits:

"There’s a real question of how sustainable that is for our economy... Presumably there's some point at which the political winds will change and that very important cohort of the top fifth of the population... will say, okay, we need a reset here so that more people can swing it and feel upward mobility in their families' lives." [22:18]

Conclusion

"Today, Explained" provides a comprehensive exploration of the burgeoning wealth transfer from baby boomers to younger generations, revealing its profound implications on social structures, economic stability, and individual identities. Through personal stories and expert analysis, the episode sheds light on the complexities of financial dependency, the perpetuation of economic inequality, and the potential challenges that lie ahead as America navigates this unprecedented shift in wealth dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Madeline Leung Coleman:
  "I can't tell. Am I a trust fund kid or am I middle class? I don't even know what middle class is in Manhattan." [03:24]

• Anonymous Speaker:
  "I would not have been able to get the apartment I have in the city, even making almost 200k without my mother as a guarantor." [05:46]

• Talman Joseph Smith:
  "We're going through a decade in which $16 trillion, trillion with a T, will pass from the boomers to their children and grandkids." [16:50]
  "The rich have gotten richer, much, much richer, tens of trillions of dollars richer." [20:33]

• Madeline Leung Coleman:
  "A lot of it is really just because people are ashamed that they can't afford everything they have on their own." [08:21]

---

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the "Sugar Daddies and Mommies" episode of Today, Explained, providing a thorough overview for those who have yet to listen.

Transcript

[Host]

We talk about it in whispers.

[Anonymous Speaker]

Hey, my name. I'm not gonna say it. I would like to remain anonymous if.

[Host]

Any of this is being used.

[Anonymous Speaker]

Hi, I would like to stay anonymous and my parents did recently buy me a house.

[Host]

We inquire about it gently. How can you afford this neighborhood or that school?

[Anonymous Speaker]

My dad used to pay off my credit card every month up until recently. My parents did pay for my rent. They paid for some of my credit card bills, kind of my like emergency money groceries as well. I am in my mid-20s and received about $1.3 million over the course of 14 years, including about we are living.

[Host]

Through the great wealth transfer her friends call her Getting money from your parents. Trillions of dollars are flowing from baby boomers to their adult kids and upending American norms and and housing prices. Ahead on TODAY Explained I can say.

[Anonymous Speaker]

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[Host]

And it does without me lifting a.

[Anonymous Speaker]

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[Madeline Leung Coleman]

1, 2, 3.

[Host]

Will that be cash or credit?

[Samsung Representative]

Credit.

[Host]

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[Samsung Representative]

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[Host]

Results may vary based on input.

[Samsung Representative]

Check responses for accuracy.

[Anonymous Speaker]

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[Host]

If you ain't got.

[Samsung Representative]

No money, make your mama buy your home.

[Anonymous Speaker]

You're listening to Today Explained.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

My name is Madeline Leung Coleman and I'm a features writer for New York Magazine.

[Host]

Madeline and her colleagues recently put together a package of stories on one of New York City's biggest open secrets, something.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

That everybody in New York City is aware of and definitely are talking to their friends about, which is the sheer number of people in New York City who are subsidized in some way by their parents.

[Host]

What are some of the obvious tells?

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

I think the most obvious tell, and the thing that many people are familiar with living in New York City is when someone suddenly buys an apartment and it's often someone who you might feel that you're kind of on the same track with like, you have a pretty good idea of how the salary that they make would actually go, because you know from your own experience of how far it doesn't go. And then all of a sudden your friend tells you that they're looking to buy. And it's like, what? It's surprising the first time. And then after that, you start to just be like, okay, here we go. We did a series of 14 interviews with people whose parents are giving their money in some way. And that's ranging from paying for down payments to paying for childcare to, you know, an allowance that's coming in every. And the editors who were leading the charge on this were Paolo Ceves and Julia Edelstein, with some help from some freelance reporters as well. And what they found was, first of all, that many more women were willing to open up about the money that they were getting, which I thought was fascinating. But some of the stories that stuck with me included the one about a woman who works as a teacher, her husband works in finance, and they live in Murray Hill. And her real estate journey started when her parents bought her a studio apartment at age 24. And that led to her eventually being able to buy a two bedroom apartment in Manhattan with her partner. You know, she's had so much help, but she's very confused about what class she belongs to. She says, I can't tell. Am I a trust fund kid or am I middle class? I don't even know what middle class is in Manhattan.

[Host]

I remember living in New York for about a decade and seeing this vividly. And to be honest, because I'm kind of a busybody, I would very politely try to figure out, like, oh, hey, girl, what's going on? Why do you think we get so curious about this? Like, what's the impulse behind wanting to know?

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

I think part of it is class resentment.

[Host]

But at least we can laugh about it.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

Yeah, part of it is class resentment. Part of it is everyone's own struggles to figure out how to make it in a city that is so expensive and so hostile to people who are not extremely wealthy. And so if you know someone who you know by the way, you love them, you know they're your good friend. A lot of the time when you're having these questions go through your head and you just want to know, why is it that they're able to be in this situation when other people, you know, are not?

[Host]

So as you were looking for themes in your reporting, what are some of the ways that boomer parents are helping their adult kids in New York?

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

Finding a place to live is the biggest one. And it isn't just about buying, it's also about renting. Landlords demand that you make an income that is usually about 40 times the monthly rent, which is crazy and doesn't actually indicate anything about what you can afford. But as a result, a lot of people can't prove that, so they need to get a guarantor. That will often be apparent.

[Anonymous Speaker]

I would not have been able to get the apartment I have in the city, even making almost 200k without my mother as a guarantor. I. I truly wonder how people are able to survive in New York. Probably a lot more fiscally responsible than I am.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

If you don't have a parent who makes that much, then you're kind of out of luck.

[Anonymous Speaker]

Most of the people I know that have bought a house that are my age had help from their parents in some way.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

And at the same time, salaries obviously have not increased to anywhere near what they would need to to cover this kind of thing, especially when you' just starting out. But then it really goes all the way through life of the generations we're talking about. So we spoke to people who are in Gen X through Gen Z, and you know, even the people who are in their 40s or even in their early 50s, they say that they have to rely on their parents to help them pay for daycare or if their kids need to go to a specialty private school, then their parents will help them pay for that.

[Anonymous Speaker]

I have three children and they are all able to attend a private school with help from my parents for their tuition. We get a lot of help from them.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

It could be covering the space between when you lose your job and when you get a new job.

[Anonymous Speaker]

I just was recently laid off. If I need rent money next month because of course I was laid off, I know that I will be able to get it from them. That money is what has led me to be able to actually not want to pull my hair out.

[Host]

I like to think that if my mom was like, oh, I'm gonna put a down payment on a house for you in New York, an apartment in New York for you, I would just. I would just be thrilled. I would just walk around on a cloud and be like, I'm so damn lucky. And yet the emotions that you describe in your reporting and some of the emotions that we heard, in fact many of them, when we asked our listeners to reach out and tell us what they'd experienced, they're not walking around on a cloud.

[Anonymous Speaker]

Hey, my name, I'm not gonna say it, but I am getting money from my parents. They definitely support me with most of my lifestyle, including groceries, kind of everything. To be honest, it is a little bit, like, not embarrassing, but I guess, like, well, maybe a little bit.

[Samsung Representative]

I actually asked him three different times.

[Anonymous Speaker]

Stop sending me the money because I felt guilty about it.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

Guilt and shame are definitely the through line, but they emerge in ways that are kind of surprising. You might think that it only would be that people feel guilty that they have more than others or that they're ashamed because they think it makes them part of some kind of reviled class of some kind. But a lot of it is really just because people are ashamed that they can't afford everything they have on their own.

[Anonymous Speaker]

Kind of, like, sad that I feel like I can't, you know, afford my lifestyle. I mean, I have a master's. I thought that it would be a lot easier to kind of get a job.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

It's actually about that old thing of American individualism and the idea that if you can't buy an apartment on your own, then maybe somehow you're less of an adult, or if you can't pay for your kids, school, your daycare on your own, like, you maybe kind of messed up somewhere, like, you took a wrong turn along the way. There's a few people who talk about feeling like they were middle class for their entire lives, but then as soon as they were adults and trying to make decisions that were really expensive, their parents suddenly were like, you know what? We could help you with that. And those people seem kind of gobsmacked at their good luck, honestly, and quite grateful, but also maybe embarrassed because they're now having to adjust to a class position that they didn't grow up thinking they were in.

[Host]

When you talk to people about what social class they were in, did you find confusion? Did you hear pushback?

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

Everybody thinks they're middle class.

[Host]

Everybody thinks they're middle class? Yes.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

And that could mean someone who owns their apartment in Manhattan. That could be somebody who is living in the outer boroughs, but they are paying their rent every month, you know, and they're like, they're not behind. They're not drowning in debt. Like, that could mean middle class. You could also be drowning in debt and feel middle class. You know, like, we hear that the middle class is being squeezed. It's absolutely true. As I was doing research for this story, I found that apparently the median income for a millennial in New York City is $59,000.

[Host]

$59,000, correct. So half of the millennials in New York are making under $59,000. Half are making over $59,000.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

That's right.

[Host]

Oh, so there's always going to be a question of what most people have and what most people are doing. Has New York City become the kind of place where you can't survive there unless your parents are giving you money? Is it necessary to have this, this kind of help?

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

So I think it's important to say that you can survive here without your parents giving you that money. However, you won't necessarily be what we might call economically secure. But we know for sure that there are many New Yorkers who live here living below the poverty line. In fact, it's almost a quarter of New Yorkers. The poverty rate in New York is about twice what it is nationally. And that won't be a surprise to anybody who lives here. But I think it's also important to say that a lot of people are just getting by. Like they, yes, they might be paying their rent. They're buying groceries, basically, not eggs, obviously, because who can afford them, but they're buying other things. You know, a lot of people are living, but they're not making savings. Okay. Like, they're not, they're not getting on stable footing. If they were to have some kind of health emergency, they would be in trouble, you know, if something happened to their apartment. Let's say they live in a basement apartment that gets flooded during one of those flash floods that happen increasingly, and they don't have renters, insurance, like they've got nothing to help them deal with that kind of thing. There's also plenty of New Yorkers who are living at that point and then being helped by their parents to push them over it, you know, and I think that's really what we're talking about here because a lot of the people who are getting helped by their parents aren't living extravagantly. A lot of them are living what appears to be a pretty normal life by the standards of what we previously considered to look like middle class ness. Right. Like, they have stable housing, they have a, you know, what we might call a normal job. But for whatever reason, they just don't have the concerns of their peers. Like, they're able to take vacations, they're able to send their kids to a private school, whatever. The difference is not usually just between not having anything or living in like, you know, a luxury apartment on the Upper east side. It's more about are you able to live without being afraid about money day to day?

[Host]

Madeline Leung Coleman, she's a features writer for New York Magazine. Coming up, it is not just New York City. The trillions of dollars are flying all over America. Who's getting.

[Adeo Representative]

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[Host]

I'm the eldest boy. I am the eldest boy today explained.

[Anonymous Speaker]

My dad recently decided that he wanted to start giving me my inherited so he gives me and my sister about 18k every year now because that's the most money you can gift someone without it being taxed.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

They helped me buy my first car and my first house, but really the.

[Anonymous Speaker]

Most important thing they did was to.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

Pay for my college and my master's degree. I don't know how people with college debt do it.

[Samsung Representative]

And they offered to just pay the $80,000 I had in debt just to.

[Madeline Leung Coleman]

Make the bankruptcy go away. It was just like a shrug of the shoulder like, yeah, sure, why not?

[Host]

I'm Noel King with friend of the show Talman Joseph Smith. Tal was early to the story of the great wealth transfer he's an economics reporter for the New York Times, and a while back, he wrote this viral piece where he laid out that we're l through a decade in which $16 trillion, trillion with a T will pass from the boomers to their children and grandkids.

[Samsung Representative]

You know, rich people and their rich kids will be giving and receiving a vast majority of these riches, these trillions that we're talking about. That's everybody from the sort of succession level rich, the top 0.1%, down to kids of what I call normie affluent families. So, you know, the kids of doctors and lawyers or engineers in nice suburbs or big cities, who you or I and everybody else and our listeners may have gone to school with, or we may be them ourselves. But to show just how tippy top the concentration of wealth is in America, the top 1% is the vast majority of the money flow. They hold about as much wealth as the bottom 90%.

[Anonymous Speaker]

It feels wrong to be willing to accept down payment money or willing to accept, you know, even just staying on the family phone plan forever. But, you know, it also seems like we're reaching this point in my household where we're realizing that all of our friends who do own property, own homes, have only been able to do so with family money.

[Host]

Why are the baby boomers so rich? Where does all this money come from?

[Samsung Representative]

So mainly through stocks and real estate. So the Average price of US house has risen about 500% since 1983, which is when a lot of boomers bought into the market and when we had a much, much greater housing supply. And in the meantime, they've been able to see those assets increase and draw on them for various forms of borrowing and often cashing out. The stock market, you know, as measured by the benchmark index, the S and P is up by more than roughly 3,000% since the early 1980s.

[Host]

Okay, so if you have spent the past 40 years as an adult, you bought a house for seven raspberries, and now it's worth $3 million. You can sell it or you can borrow against it. And also, if you put money into the stock market in the 1980s, it Again, your return has been incredible, especially compared to, you know, what we think of in the last decade or so when the market has also been good, we should note.

[Samsung Representative]

Yes.

[Host]

So let me ask you. We're saying boomers broadly here, but it makes me. Well, I know personally, it's not all boomers. Love you, mom.

[Samsung Representative]

Which.

[Host]

Which boomers are able to give to their kids. Is this like the 1% that we're talking about.

[Samsung Representative]

Yeah. So it's mostly the top 10 and top 1%. And of course, the top 1% encapsulates top 10%. That's where the vast majority of this is.

[Host]

All right, so the boomers who are giving inheritances, who are part of the $16 trillion transfer are in the top 10% in America. And that would mean, I'm guessing, that demographically, they have one big thing in common.

[Samsung Representative]

Yes, they are.

[Host]

What are the Democrats here?

[Samsung Representative]

Yeah, yeah, they are disproportionately. They're disproportionately white. The vast majority of the wealth transfer will be contained within white families. But deep focus on race in this transfer can sometimes distract people from class, really being an equally, if not more stark story here. To put it simply, most rich people are white, but most white people are not rich.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Samsung Representative]

And when you think of the plurality of working class and poor people in this country, they're white. So there's a lot of nuance.

[Host]

What are the implications of all this? Some chunk of younger Americans are getting a lot of money from some chunk of older Americans. And we should care about that why?

[Samsung Representative]

There's that old saying, right, of the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. And that has been true at times in America, but in the past decade, it's actually not been the poor, much less poor in some cases. The hot labor market just before the pandemic and right after it, for example, helped boost incomes across the board a lot. But the thing is, the issue is the rich have gotten richer, Much, much richer, tens of trillions of dollars richer. And that has enabled them to manage a higher cost of living, higher home prices and so on. All the things that people get frustrated by, housing, rent, health care, childcare, elder care. All those things are easier to manage if you have passive forms of income heading your way, often through, you know, no work of your own. Not that that's something to be ashamed of, but it's just a fact of life. And there's a real question of how sustainable that is for our economy. That when the upper middle class and the sort of normie professional affluent can no longer swing it when being sandwiched between feeling like you can't afford kids or having kids and it being a real challenge to give them all that they want and need while also realizing that you're going to have to take care of your parents, is that pressure cooker. Ramps and ramps and ramps up. Presumably there's some point at which the political winds will change and that Very important cohort of the top fifth of the population, the top decile will say, okay, we need a reset here so that more people can swing it and feel upward mobility in there and their family's lives.

[Host]

Joe Biden got slammed for releasing almost $2 trillion into the economy over a couple of years and causing inflation. Right. If 1.6 trillion is being transferred a year for the next 10, getting us to 16 trillion, is this actually inflationary?

[Samsung Representative]

I'd say yes and no. No, in the sense that the rich do not have a high marginal propensity to spend, which is economic speak for saying rich people tend to save and invest most of their extra money. So it's not. The velocity of it isn't constantly flowing as much as people living paycheck to paycheck who do and in some ways must spend the money as soon as they get it. So there's that. But yes, also it could be a little bit inflationary because the class of very well to do people in this country is growing substantially. And we're already seeing in economic data just within the past year, when inflation is really back to relatively calm levels, the rich may be coming more price insensitive because of how rich they are. Meaning in real terms that, you know, the family goes on vacation and it's like, God, these margaritas at the bar are expensive. Or God, the kids swimsuits cost this much now. Or, and on and on and on. Or the plane tickets cost this much now. Well, then what do the rich in America do? You complain about it, but you still purchase it.

[Host]

You pay. Yeah.

[Samsung Representative]

Whether it's a product or a service. And that has a lot of economists of all stripes a little bit worried.

[Host]

A couple people have pointed out that you can't really blame people for passing money onto their children. Right. This is the way it's always worked from time immemorial. You get stuff and you give it to your kids. Maybe just your sons, maybe just your first son. But like, this is how life works. So why is now the time to pay attention to this? Is it just for fun? Cause it's kind of fun to talk about, or are there real reasons to be watching very carefully as this happens?

[Samsung Representative]

I mean, I think we all love a little bit to gawk at wealth. Oh, yes, it's an American pastime. I don't think it's a coincidence that, you know, I've been lucky enough to have a few stories that have gone viral and, you know, this one kind of blew things out of the water. And I don't think that's a coincidence. I think it's important because both economically and morally, what does it mean for a nation to have $200 trillion in wealth and for there to still be so much self reported need and for people to be so frustrated? I think a lot of people are fairly asking, is it not possible for us to even if we can't solve inequality, for us to raise the baseline standard of living for a greater amount of people without risking the things that we love about the dynamism in our economy and ambition in our economy, we'll find ourselves going back to this question of how almost immeasurably richer we are than our ancestors, and yet we're still struggling with some of the same sort of problems.

[Host]

Talman, Joseph Smith, New York Times Tal's writing 2026's most hotly anticipated by me, Book clout and capital. Victoria Chamberlain and Devin Schwartz produced today's show. Jolie Myers edited, Laura Buller checked the facts, and Patrick Boyd is our engineer. Here's what else you need to know Today on Sunday, March 9, you'll be getting a treat in this feed. Explain It TO Me, hosted by Jonquilan Hill, will be dropping now every Sunday. Hey, J.Q.

[Jonquilan Hill]

Hey, Noelle.

[Host]

Tell me about Explain it to Me.

[Jonquilan Hill]

Okay, so the show is really centered around questions from listeners you call in about things that matter to you. You know, maybe it's how to save for retirement or how to make friends or whether or not now is the right time to buy a house. Then we talk to experts and bring you the answers you need.

[Host]

What's coming on March 9th?

[Jonquilan Hill]

Okay, so next Sunday for our first episode, we're sharing in the TODAY Explained feed. We'll be talking about men and dating. We actually got a call from a listener who's struggling to get a date. You know, girl, the struggle.

[Host]

I don't have to tell you, you.

[Jonquilan Hill]

Know, the rules of romance have changed and some guys are having trouble keeping up. We also have an episode around the corner about women. We'll be talking about Gen X women in sex. You know, Gen Xers are out here getting some. We've seen it on Baby Girl. We've seen it all types of places. And, you know, we're wondering if the media has something to do with that. Gen X ladies, is any of this impacting your sex life? What's going on over there and how.

[Host]

Do people reach you?

[Jonquilan Hill]

We have a hotline. Just call 1-800-618-8545 or send a voice memo to ask vox vox.com explain it.

[Host]

To me will be right here in the Today Explained feed. Every Sunday starting March 9th, catch us here.