The data center war

Summary

Podcast Summary: Today, Explained

Episode Title: The Data Center War

Date: May 16, 2026
Host: Astan Herndon (reporting), Vox
Location: Vineland & Bridgeton, Cumberland County, NJ

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Episode Overview

This episode investigates the local and political tensions surrounding a major data center project in Cumberland County, New Jersey—the poorest county in the state—amid a boom of thousands of new data centers being built or proposed across America. Astan Herndon reports from the ground to untangle why community backlash is growing, what residents are concerned about, and how local politics are shaping up in response. The show dives into the public debate over energy, environment, economic promises, and transparency, and what these local fights mean for national policy as AI and digital infrastructure rapidly expand.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Data Center Boom and Local Backlash

• Stat: Over 4,000 data centers already exist in America, with more than 2,000 additional centers announced or under construction. (00:53)
• Vineland, NJ: A massive Data1 project is being built, triggering community opposition significant enough to delay expansion plans.
• Political Salience: Local Democrats are seizing on backlash, with congressional candidate Bailey Winder becoming a visible critic and organizer.

2. Community Concerns: Process & Transparency

• Lack of Input: Residents and local leaders felt left out of the approval process. The project was “expedited and it was shoved through.” (04:09, Bailey Winder)
• Packed Meetings: Unlike most local issues, city council meetings on the data center have been standing room only—uniting people across the political spectrum. (04:28, Bailey Winder)

  "Most city council meetings, people don’t show up... These city council meetings were packed, I mean standing room only, because people were saying, ‘wait a minute, what is going on here? Where was our consultation?’" (04:28, Bailey Winder)

3. Energy, Environmental, and Economic Impact Doubts

• Energy Use: Data centers now account for about 5% of US electricity use, with local bills reportedly spiking. Residents see a possible link but lack clear data. (09:15, Bailey Winder)
• Environmental Strain: The Vineland center will consume an estimated 20 million gallons of water annually, raising worries about resource competition for local farmers amid worsening extreme weather. (13:13, Bailey Winder)
• Questionable Economic Benefits: Promised “a few hundred jobs,” but with little guarantee or transparency, especially regarding whether jobs will be unionized or go to locals. (07:47, Bailey Winder)

  “There’s no guarantee that those jobs will come into fruition… and you need close monitoring of that… if you’re going to have jobs for this project, at least have them be union jobs. And that has not happened on the scale I think is sufficient either.” (07:47, Bailey Winder)

4. Underserved Communities & Site Selection

• Targeting Vulnerable Areas: There’s concern that companies are building in places with less political power or ability to organize resistance (the “EZ Pass lane” for corporate interests). (11:00, Bailey Winder)

  "This data center project was in the EZ Pass lane, and community concerns have been stuck in the traffic in the right hand lane." (11:51, Bailey Winder)

5. The Call for a Pause & Regulatory Guardrails

• Moratorium Advocacy: Winder calls for a short-term nationwide moratorium on data centers to allow for regulation and community protections. (07:17, Bailey Winder; 17:08, Town Hall)

  “My belief is that we need to have a short term moratorium nationwide on data center development because it’s moving too fast and because the impact is extreme in some cases.” (07:17, Bailey Winder)

• Bipartisan Local Concern: Across party lines, residents and activists are rallying for more oversight and questioning who truly benefits from such projects.

6. Community Voices & Broader Anxiety

• Quality of Life: Residents raise concerns over property values, water usage, aesthetics (“the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen”), and noise. (13:01 & 20:40, Various Residents)
• Feeling Like 'Guinea Pigs': Fear that they are being used to test new technology without adequate data or protections. (18:21, Vineland Resident 1)

  “Experiment. We’re going to experiment down here. And we’re the guinea pigs.” (18:21, Vineland Resident 1)

• AI Anxiety: Residents connect data center issues to unease about the rapid advance and regulation of AI (“AI is going to do the same thing [as the internet]: the best and the worst of the world.”) (21:17, Vineland Resident 2)

7. Political Distrust & Alienation

• Perception of Elites vs. Community: Recurrent skepticism about whether development truly benefits locals, or just corporations and “the elite.” (22:04, Vineland Resident 1)

  “Is it benefiting people or is it benefiting the elite and the money that’s going into their pockets?” (22:04, Vineland Resident 1)

• Government as Unresponsive: Broad frustration that political leaders—local, state, and national—aren't listening to actual residents. (22:26, 22:40, Multiple Residents)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "This is not just another project... It is something that's one of the largest data centers in the whole Northeast." — Bailey Winder (03:50)
• "We are not going anywhere... because this issue is doing something powerful in it is bringing the community together left, right and center." — Bailey Winder (04:28)
• "There’s a reason, I believe, why a lot of these data centers are coming into communities where they think they can come in aggressively without a lot of pushback." — Bailey Winder (07:47)
• "It actually feels like... they're not responding to you, the regular person. And that's across a lot of issues." — Astan Herndon (22:26)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–02:25 – Setting the scene: Data center boom; local resistance in Vineland, NJ
• 02:25–05:36 – Interview with Bailey Winder: Community process, local opposition
• 05:57–11:51 – Political implications, jobs, energy, and environmental concerns
• 12:30–13:32 – Driving tour: The massive, “brutalist” data center and resident fears
• 15:31–17:55 – Bridgeton town hall: Candid resident comments, Winder’s policy proposals
• 18:17–21:45 – Community Q&A: Property values, grid worries, AI anxieties
• 22:04–23:10 – Political alienation and summary of community mood
• 23:10–End – Host recap: The divide between Washington’s framing and local experiences

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Tone & Style

• Language: Clear, conversational, and accessible; residents and community leaders express frustration, skepticism, and concern in plain spoken terms.
• Tone: Investigative; empathetic to community worries but factual; local voices are central, while policy implications are critically examined.
• Memorable Mood: A sense of urgency, alienation, and a desire for more control and real information regarding large-scale projects impacting small communities.

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Concluding Takeaways

• Disconnect: There is a widening gulf between federal/national perspectives on digital infrastructure and local lived realities.
• A Call for Transparency: Residents aren't opposed to technology, jobs, or modernization—but demand transparency, meaningful participation, and real safeguards.
• Political Ramifications: The issue is emerging as a grassroots political battleground, transcending traditional party divides and centering around the question: Who is really being served by rapid technological transformation?

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For listeners seeking to understand America's simmering data center debate, this episode offers a vivid local case study—complete with on-the-ground voices, sharp political context, and the kind of kitchen-table concerns often missing from the AI and infrastructure boom narrative.

Transcript

[Astan Herndon]

Okay, so today we're driving to southern New Jersey. I'm heading to a data center. Convertible. Are we sure it's not enough for that, my man? That's a little aggressive, King. Okay, so a couple weeks ago, I read a story in NJ.com and it was all about how there's a data center going up in Cumberland county, the poorest county in New Jersey that's receiving some community pushback. And this immediately got my attention because data centers are going up all across the country and it feels like an issue more people should be talking about. According to one stat I saw, there's more than 4,000 data centers already across America and more than 2,000 that have been announced or are already under construction. That's kind of crazy. I feel like we should be hearing politicians talk more about this, but we haven't really heard a consensus. One member of Congress told me that he wants to see a moratorium on data centers, but a senator told me recently that he thinks they're a necessary evil as things like AI become a bigger part of our economy and our society. So that led me to think, let's do some journalism ourselves and figure out what people actually think. Are data centers really a necessary evil? Let's find out.

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[Astan Herndon]

So I just got to Vineland, New Jersey, and I'm here to look at the Data1 data center. This just started construction early last year and we're already starting to see some community pushback on it. So much so that Data One has had to actually delay its plans for expansion. And this has also been showing up in the political arena too. Southern New Jersey is home to New Jersey's 2nd congressional district. And there's some Democrats who have been making this the focus of their campaigns, hoping to really seize onto the community backlash on the issue. One of those Democrats is named Bailey Winder, who we're going to talk to in a second. Now, Bailey's a young person who's really tried to throw town halls on this issue. He spoke to city council and he's really been saying that the community was not included in the process by which this data center went into construction. And there's a lot of concerns on the energy front, on the environmental front and simply just a lot of noise. So I want to try to untangle this and let's figure out what's actually going on here. Thank you for being our tour guide here.

[Bailey Winder]

I appreciate the chance to be with you.

[Astan Herndon]

Can you just give us a sense of like what we're outside right now.

[Bailey Winder]

This is the new data center in Vineland, New Jersey. We're here in Cumberland County. And just look at the size of this thing. It is gigantic.

[Astan Herndon]

Give me a sense of the scope of this thing. Like how large are we talking about? How far does this extend?

[Bailey Winder]

It is huge. And we're talking 300 to 350 megawatts, 2.6 million square feet.

[Astan Herndon]

Wow.

[Bailey Winder]

But one thing I say to people is until you're in front of this, you see it in person, it's hard to put it in perspective. This is not just another project. It is something that's one of the largest data centers in the whole Northeast.

[Astan Herndon]

Did people know this was happening? Was there community input like before we get to the sense of backlash now. Take me what happened then?

[Bailey Winder]

Sure. So one of the big frustrations, one of the big reasons why there have been so many concerns from the community is because of what you're pointing to, which is I think the process was expedited and it was shoved through. And a lot of.

[Astan Herndon]

Now is that a fact? Do we know that? Or is that something that's based on

[Bailey Winder]

what I'm hearing from people in the community?

[Astan Herndon]

Okay.

[Bailey Winder]

And you know, there are a lot of concerns about energy and the environment and all part of it is plain and simple that this is a hyperscale sized data center. And a lot of folks here in Vineland, across South Jersey felt like they were not notified until it was too late, until this had already taken off. And if you look at what's happened across city council meetings, which is the first way that I really got involved with this issue back in last fall, we are not going anywhere. Not next week, not next Month, not after a postponed vote. Because this issue is doing something powerful in it is bringing the community together left, right and center. People disagree about almost everything in politics right now, but this is about community interests versus big corporations and versus political deals that enable them to get the red carpet rolled out. Most city council meetings, people don't show up right. Local politics, hard to get people to turn out. These city council meetings were packed, I mean standing room only, because people were saying, wait a minute, what is going on here? Where was our consultation? And why haven't we had more town halls, more chances to have a back and forth?

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

The writing is on the wall for what lies ahead for our city and you sit here staring blankly or doodling on your papers. There are still steps you can take

[Vineland Resident 1]

to speak up and protect us from potential harm.

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

We have reached out to council on multiple occasions, both here and personally. I'm here to offer that conversation again. We're ready to talk to you. You need to meet us here.

[Astan Herndon]

We're mostly here for two reasons, specifically. Like one, we want to think about the issue of data centers. Like I'm kind of wondering, is this about process or people thinking that things are changing too quickly around them is about energy costs. This is about, you know, the noise or inconvenience. That's kind of one question in my head. But another one is just kind of thinking about like where Democrats are going to go on this. I've heard politicians say everything like there needs to be a moratorium on data centers to saying things like they're kind of a necessary evil in our like age of AI. Let's start with the second one.

[Bailey Winder]

Like where?

[Astan Herndon]

From where you see it, you know, one could say that this puts something like Cumberland county in the present, that it helps create jobs for our changing work economy. What's your response to that?

[Bailey Winder]

My response is that I'm pro development, but I'm pro responsible development. And I think the way this project has developed has not put the community first and has not had enough community inputs. So we know AI is here to stay. We know this sector is going to be part of what drives the American economy for decades to come. But the consequences of something like this once it's up and running are huge.

[Astan Herndon]

But what I'm hearing from you doesn't sound like a complete opposition to a data center in this community or even development like this. Overall, it sounds like the concern is more in how this happened, at least right now. Is that fair?

[Bailey Winder]

My belief is that we need to have a short term moratorium nationwide on data center development because it's moving too fast and because the impact is extreme in some cases. So I don't think that should be years and years, But I think the government needs to intervene right now and make sure that there are guardrails in place.

[Astan Herndon]

I had read that Cumberland county was the poorest county in New Jersey. I want to circle back to that with the question of jobs data. One would say they're helping provide a service for a community that needs it. I guess what I was hearing you say is the process has been the problem.

[Bailey Winder]

So data centers are a pretty extractive type of project because the energy consumption, the way they're developed and then they talk about a few hundred jobs. Well, first of all, there's no guarantee that those jobs will come into fruition. That's sort of based on a corporate pitch on why this project is good. And I think you need independent verification of that and you need close monitoring of that. Another thing I'll say is that at one of the city council meetings I spoke at, a union group came and said if you're going to have jobs for this project, at least have them be union jobs. And that has not happened on the scale that I think is sufficient either. But there's a reason, I believe, why a lot of these data centers are coming into communities where they think they can come in aggressively without a lot of pushback. Partially because of what you just said.

[Astan Herndon]

I'm like, yeah, is it a happenstance that this is going up in the community of most need maybe doesn't have the same type of political agency? I mean, I've seen some of the protests that have happened here and places across the country. What do you think is most driving this backlash to data centers? And do you think kind of federal politicians are hearing it?

[Bailey Winder]

So I think people are just concerned about their day to day life. This is a kitchen table issue where here in New Jersey life is so expensive already with taxes, with the cost of housing and education, you name it. So energy bills are already unaffordable for a lot of folks. And the concerns around this are that it's not credible to have something of this size without creating more impact there.

[Astan Herndon]

That's what I was going to ask. Do we know causally that this raises New Jersey's energy prices?

[Bailey Winder]

Well, what we do know is that nationally Data centers are about 5% now of electricity consumption. What we do know is that this project's development has coincided with a large spike in energy bills. And it's not credible to me that there's zero correlation there. I think part of the problem that you're speaking to is the lack of information though.

[Astan Herndon]

Yeah.

[Bailey Winder]

I think it's important to recognize that this is something that is so novel that we don't know a lot of what's going to happen and that's what's driving some of that fear.

[Astan Herndon]

Yeah, yeah, I hear what you're saying. That it's not necessarily that we have all this clear evidence that this data center leads to higher energy prices or inherently displaces all these folks. But we do know that this is happening so quickly and this is so new that it's driving a lot of anxiety among these people.

[Bailey Winder]

Right.

[Astan Herndon]

I heard that Data One delayed a hearing with the city council after some of this public pushback, at least to me, kind of. One of my final questions, like, do you think that they're hearing some of this? And part of the reason we've seen delays, part of the reason we haven't seen some of the proposed expansion is because the community's pushing back.

[Bailey Winder]

Absolutely. So we organized a rally about a month and a half ago. And it was not just me, it was multiple organizations coming together, including environmental groups. That rally was really well attended. It was people who were Democrat, Republican, Independent coming together. Because one thing about this issue is it's bipartisan in the community concern. We held that rally, we had a bunch of different speakers. And several days later, the Vineland city government decided to postpone a vote by two months on whether or not to expand this site.

[Astan Herndon]

I wonder how much of your position is reflected in constituency. Do you think residents are on your side in terms of maybe just wanting a pause but kind of recognizing where AI plays its role in the future? Or do you think it's a more full scale opposition where they want this data center gone and they don't want one of these here again?

[Bailey Winder]

I think the opposition is very strong. That's why I get messages all the time on social media from people who are really worried. This data center is underway and we're not going to get it fully canceled. But there are measures that can be taken in the next couple of months when it comes to the possibility of expansion. Tax breaks, water usage. And that's really where my focus is on being a pragmatist about this and understanding that we can have legislation that can include those protections. But you know, there's no way this project should have happened in this way. It's actually an insult to the community. And what it's done is create, I think, a story we've seen a million times before in America. But that's now on a scale that's really scary, which is, I think of it in terms of as a big district. I'm driving around a lot. This data center project was in the E Z Pass lane, and community concerns have been stuck in the traffic in the right hand lane. And that's a disconnect that I think is unacceptable.

[Astan Herndon]

We have a kind of a stereotype of how hard it is to build in America and how many. How much red tape is put up before things go up. And it's kind of like we're describing a process here that's the opposite. Then when it comes to these sort of things, they've gone up fast enough where folks don't even feel like they've had a moment for that kind of community concern.

[Bailey Winder]

I think it's a great point, because when it comes to affordable housing, part of how we unlock that is critical thinking around bureaucracy and red tape. There's a lot that can be cut down there. The question is, how did a project of this size get up and running so fast?

[Astan Herndon]

Okay, so now can you actually drive me around this data center so we can get a sense of just the scope of this thing?

[Bailey Winder]

Absolutely. Let's do it.

[Astan Herndon]

All right, so about how big is Vineland?

[Bailey Winder]

Vineland, it's one of the larger cities in the district, but it's also, as you can see around here, there's just a lot of land.

[Astan Herndon]

So, yeah, I got to say, like, you know, it's not that I expected a data center to be aesthetically pleasing, but they have made this maybe the most unaesthetically pleasing structure humanly possible. I mean, the immediate comes to mind is like prison, like. But it's just the kind of drab, brutalist block it is.

[Bailey Winder]

It's very imposing. It's very cold. I think you can understand why folks around here are concerned about their property prices.

[Astan Herndon]

Yeah.

[Bailey Winder]

I've talked with people who said, I'm petrified about not being able to sell my home.

[Vineland Resident 2]

Yeah.

[Bailey Winder]

And, yeah, there it is. Here we are. 20 million gallons of water per year.

[Astan Herndon]

Wow.

[Bailey Winder]

And when you think about the risks these days of extreme weather in the summertime. Right. You're going to have situations where the farmers are competing for water with this.

[Astan Herndon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for driving me around. I really appreciate it.

[Bailey Winder]

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

[Astan Herndon]

Yeah. We're going to be at the town hall tonight, Foreign,

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[Astan Herndon]

So we're at the Hocus Community center in Bridgeton, New Jersey. That's the next step in our story. And we're here because there'll be a resident town hall for all the folks around here who have been affected by the Data1 data center. Now, we know this caused some community backlash and we know that Bailey Winder, the congressional candidate, has been trying to channel that in his run for Congress. So we've decided to join along with him in his latest town hall and to see what residents are actually thinking about it. Let's take a look.

[Bailey Winder]

We're going to go ahead and get the ball rolling here. My name is Bailey Winder, running for Congress in this year's election, hoping to bring some change to South Jersey, bring some new leadership to South Jersey. We are here tonight to talk about a number of things, but first and foremost to talk about an issue that I know matters a lot across this community, across the country. That is data centers and the way that they are being developed, the way that they are getting approvals or not getting approvals, and who is stepping up. And I Think it's really important that we understand that this is something that is happening all over the place. And it's also something that's bipartisan. It really doesn't feel left versus right to me. It feels more like, are you standing with the community or not? Are you putting the community first or not? I think the message in this case is you have government looking out for the wrong people and having the wrong set of priorities. So I'll stop there. I thank you so much, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[Vineland Resident 2]

Don, just as a federal legislator, what would you offer as far as legislation goes to help protect the state and your district?

[Bailey Winder]

There's a host of answers for that. I'll start with the data center point specifically, which is that I believe we need a pause in order to make sure that the guardrails are in place. It's not saying we don't want development. We do want development, we want jobs, we want South Jersey's economy to become stronger. But it cannot happen at the expense of the community.

[Vineland Resident 1]

I would imagine with Environment Council, they probably like you or like, I don't know the specifics of, you know, how much pollution is in the air and how you measure all that. So I would imagine that you would also rely on people that are experts in that field to tell you what would be acceptable or what would not be acceptable or what the threshold should be or what the limits should be. So that would be something that would happen through, I guess, the dep.

[Bailey Winder]

Well, I think the DEP plays a role in it. But part of what you're pointing to, which is a problem across our country right now, is that experts and science is not being invested in. And we have to understand that this technology has been around for a while, but it's also novel in some ways. When the Dadauan CEO came to do his presentation, he said, this is technology we've never seen before.

[Astan Herndon]

Right.

[Bailey Winder]

Well, that could be a good thing. But that's also a scary thing to hear.

[Vineland Resident 1]

Experiment. We're going to experiment down here. And we're the guinea pigs.

[Bailey Winder]

And we're the guinea pigs.

[Vineland Resident 1]

Exactly.

[Vineland Resident 2]

How many employees is this place supposed to bring?

[Bailey Winder]

Yeah, it's a good question. They say a couple of hundred in the long term.

[Vineland Resident 2]

A couple of hundred for two and a half million square feet?

[Bailey Winder]

Yeah.

[Vineland Resident 2]

The amount of electricity, you said it's

[Bailey Winder]

like about twice that of Vineland.

[Vineland Resident 2]

Okay. How can they support that? How can that possibly be supported with today's grid?

[Bailey Winder]

Right.

[Vineland Resident 2]

One thing that happens in this country is there's no Planning for the future. I mean, in government we're certainly doesn't seem to be that we're planning out. Our infrastructure is never updated. You've got to invest in here and not just looking at somebody's building because who benefits with that building?

[Astan Herndon]

Who?

[Vineland Resident 2]

It's not the people of this town, right? Or the county or the state.

[Bailey Winder]

What's going to happen?

[Vineland Resident 1]

I did sell my house.

[Astan Herndon]

I told you, my house has been

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

for sale since February. And because I need to be where

[Vineland Resident 1]

my children are, my husband passed, my mom passed, and it's time to go where they are.

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

People come in.

[Vineland Resident 1]

I have a woman who came back twice, had cash and realized it was

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

near the data center.

[Vineland Resident 1]

Her children said, mom, she says, I

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

just can't do this.

[Astan Herndon]

So this is what we're going to people are going to do.

[Bailey Winder]

Yes, that's right. This is not about abstract politics. It's about people's everyday lives and livelihoods and quality of life. I thank you all so, so much. Really appreciate you being here and taking the time. I hope we can talk more and grateful for the conversation. And we're just going to have Aston and the Fox News folks come up here and ask a few questions. Excellent. Extra minutes.

[Astan Herndon]

So my name is Astan Herndon. I'm a politics journalist. I host the podcast at Box. It's all about elections. It's called America. Actually. I would love to ask you all just a couple like show of hands questions to get a sense of how you're feeling about this and then maybe we'll hear some individual stories. How many of you right now feel like you got information about the data center before the construction started? No? Nobody. Okay, can someone raise their hand and just tell me what their biggest concern was once they started hearing about it?

[Vineland Resident 1]

Well, when I saw it, I thought it was the ugliest thing I've ever seen. So that part of East Vineland is beautiful farmland. Was beautiful farmland. But then of course I thought about a lot of my friends that live out that way and how it was going to impact their everyday life. Most people live there because they love the farmland.

[Astan Herndon]

Now I know about the structure. I know about the kind of energy concerns. I wanted to ask about AI generally. Like how many of you would say that your concerns about this data center are tied to larger concerns about AI and kind of some anxiety around that.

[Vineland Resident 2]

The Internet bonus. The best of the world and the worst of the world. Okay, AI is going to do the same thing. It's already begun. You know, I scroll through Facebook and there's you know, AI all over the place. Some of it's cute little bunnies and cats, but a lot of the other stuff, you know, and is bad. Again, our government is very slow to react. There has to be some regulations.

[Astan Herndon]

Last question would be, where would you now put this on your scale of issues? There's so much happening right now, whether it be war in Iran or tariffs, as someone mentioned, or just generally, there's so much going on. I wonder where data centers and this specific local reality now for you all maps onto your importance of issues.

[Vineland Resident 1]

I would say most of the topics fall into two categories. Is it benefiting people or is it benefiting the elite and the money that's going into their pockets. You know, we see people trading before the war is announced and they're benefiting from it. And I just find it all very disgusting.

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

They're gambling.

[Vineland Resident 1]

Yeah, I mean, they're gambling with insider information.

[Astan Herndon]

You were just saying on one hand, there's a kind of politics way of thinking about this in one bucket or another. But you're like. It actually feels like in general they're not responding to you, the regular person. And that's across a lot of issues.

[Vineland Resident 1]

Well, yes, that's how I see it.

[Astan Herndon]

Okay.

[Vineland Resident 2]

I feel the same way. It's because everything relates from the top down, and what we're getting from the top has spread all the way to

[Astan Herndon]

the local level, and it isn't good. Thank you all for entertaining our questions. And I think. I think it's illuminating to hear the way these issues are connected for people. And I think just this general sentiment that folks feel unheard and we don't feel that way.

[Vineland Resident 1]

We are that way.

[Podcast Advertiser/Announcer]

We are not.

[Astan Herndon]

Yes, I hear you. Thank you all for your time. We really appreciate it. Now, we just finished talking to Vineland residents about this data center, and I think it got us a lot closer to figuring out what people actually think about this issue. Now, let's recap what they said. They're mad about the process and the substance of this. They feel as if they were included in the conversation. And they're also seeing things like their electricity bills go up and things like energy prices go up. Now, we don't know if their electricity bills are directly related to the expansion of this data center or. But it's driving the political backlash, and that's clear here on the ground. So if I think back to what some of the politicians in Washington told us, that data centers are a necessary evil, I think they've got another thing coming to them when they actually talk to people on the ground. America actually will be in your feeds every Saturday with an interesting interview in politics or culture. And of course you can listen to America actually wherever you get your podcast or on the Today Explained feed. Now the best way to support our podcast and to support VOX is is by becoming a Vox member. You can sign up by going to Vox.com members. See you next week. Cue the theme music.

[Bailey Winder]

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