The Ferrari of electric vehicles

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Today, Explained – "The Ferrari of Electric Vehicles"

Host: Sean Rameswaram | Guest: Andrew Hawkins (Transportation Editor, The Verge)
Date: June 5, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Today, Explained dives into the bold new frontiers of electric vehicles (EVs) by examining two headline-grabbing releases: Ferrari’s first electric car, the Luce, and the Slate truck—a radically stripped-down, affordable EV. Host Sean Rameswaram and guest Andrew Hawkins of The Verge walk listeners through the culture clash, market forces, and consumer anxieties shaping the EV revolution in America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Electric Vehicles and Cultural Shifts

• The episode opens by contrasting the political landscape of EVs (“Remember Joe Biden? Come on, man, he loved electric vehicles. Donald Trump, not so much.” – Sean, 00:00) and notes that, regardless of political tastes, EVs are “happening whether the powers that be want them or not.”
• The main focus: two splashy new EVs—Ferrari’s luxury Luce and the bare-bones Slate truck—and whether they can move American consumers beyond their “electric hump.”

2. The Ferrari Luce: A New, Controversial Chapter

Consumer Reaction and Design

• Public Outrage: Ferrari’s foray into EVs was not universally celebrated. Instead, the Luce was “greeted by a chorus of boos.” (Andrew, 02:15)
  • “Excited is not the word I would use... aghast or dismayed maybe. I tried my best to not just come online and be negative, but that new Ferrari Luci is the ugliest car I've ever seen.” (Andrew, 02:15)
  • “This makes me feel numb, actually. It makes me feel a little bit angry.” (Sean, 02:43)
  • “The rims are goofy and cartoonish. There are no lines, no detail. Nothing that screams luxury, speed, or even style.” (Preet, 03:25-03:33)
• Design Influence: The Luce’s styling, led by Jony Ive (formerly of Apple), angered traditionalists. Many compared it to a Nissan Leaf or “like a slab,” citing its aerodynamic, jelly-bean shape (03:57).
  • “It just sort of looks kind of like a slab to a lot of people. And that is just not the traditional Ferrari.” (Andrew, 03:57)
  • “It looks like a nicer version of a Nissan Leaf on the outside.” (Sean, 05:48)
• Intentional Departure: Ferrari intentionally wanted to break from the past, treating the Luce as a “blank slate” to attract new demographics, especially younger, tech-focused buyers (04:37; 07:55).

The Interior and Technology Blend

• While the exterior sparked controversy, the interior gained praise for blending digital and analog features—“switches and toggles and grab bars and physical touch points”—contrasting the usual “giant computer on wheels” feel of many EVs (04:37).
• No test drives have been widely reported except select F1 drivers, so real-world performance remains largely unknown (06:29).
  • “They allowed a couple of F1 drivers, Lewis Hamilton amongst them, get behind some of the pre production models.” (Andrew, 06:29)

Market and Brand Impact

• Ferrari is courting a new buyer: Silicon Valley billionaires, crypto millionaires—a crowd more usually associated with Lamborghinis or Bugattis (07:55).
• Traditional Ferrari owners have largely stayed out of the internet reaction, highlighting the luxury brand’s broad public recognition, even among those who’ll never buy one (08:40).
  • “It’s a lot of people who will never own a Ferrari… but that says something, right, that Ferrari is that type of brand.” (Andrew, 08:40)

Personal Take

• Andrew thought the exterior was “pretty meh” but found the interior impressive. He didn’t attend the car's unveiling due to strict Verge ethics (09:24).
• The Luce will inevitably draw attention on the road, just as the Tesla Model 3 once did. "If you see it, what is that thing?" (Andrew, 10:52)

3. The Slate Truck: Minimalism for the Masses

What Is It?

• The Slate truck is as spartan as an EV can be: “no radio, no touchscreen, no central screen inside the vehicle. There's no paint. There's so little…” (Andrew, 15:23)
• Manual roll-down windows are standard; power windows are an option you must request (16:06).

Rationale and Appeal

• The philosophy: “We took out everything that wasn't a car.” (Preet, 16:45)
• Over 100 accessories are available so buyers can customize and add as they wish (Preet, 16:52).
• By stripping the truck to essentials, they can keep prices under $30,000, compared to the $640,000 Ferrari (17:01).

Why a Truck, Not a Sedan?

• Trucks continue to dominate US sales (especially the Ford F150). The Slate is notably a small truck, not a large, oversized SUV or pickup—catering to those who want utility without size or bloat (18:15).
• “Trucks have gotten far too big for their britches. They’re dangerous to pedestrians... so maybe we need more compact trucks.” (Andrew, 18:15)

Market Risks and Shifting Preferences

• It’s a risky bet that people will forgo convenience for cheap EVs—Slate is banking on both cost sensitivity (rising car/gas prices) and fatigue with touchscreen controls (19:24).
  • “I hate that we are moving to cars having every control through the screen.” (Preet, 19:39)
• EVs have historically been 20-30% more expensive than their gas counterparts. Battery cost is the major factor, and the hope is to eventually lower it by localizing supply chains and reducing dependence on China (20:27).

4. The Broader EV Landscape: Economics, Regulation, and China

• With tax credits and emissions regulations reduced or gone under the Trump administration, affordability is more critical than ever (21:30).
• America has lost global leadership in the auto industry, especially EVs, to China—which now makes more EVs than the rest of the world combined and sells advanced models (like BYD) for under $10,000 (22:56).
  • “China… produces more EVs than every other nation on earth combined.” (Andrew, 23:35)
  • “He’s trading in his Lexus for a BYD… which overtook Tesla last year as the world's top seller of fully electric vehicles.” (Sean, 23:43)

5. Are Americans Ready for EVs?

• While issues like range anxiety and charging access persist, the bigger issue now is price sensitivity.
  • “The number one consideration for most people is, you know, I'm living paycheck to paycheck… it’s costing me $80, $90 to fill up my F150.” (Andrew, 25:09)
• The used EV market is increasingly attractive, with quality vehicles available for $20,000. Home charging is a big draw (25:08).
• Final thought: American consumers are still pragmatic, making decisions with their pocketbooks.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Excited is not the word I would use to describe it [the Luce]. Aghast or dismayed maybe… greeted by a chorus of boos. That new Ferrari Luci is the ugliest car I've ever seen.” — Andrew Hawkins, 02:15
• “It looks like a Nissan Leaf that was really cold… Most EVs have to be shaped like a jelly bean because of aerodynamic considerations.” — Andrew Hawkins, 03:57
• “There's something about a Ferrari that's kind of like a museum object to a lot of people… It tends to draw this level of excitement.” — Andrew Hawkins, 10:52
• “We took out everything that wasn't a car.” — Preet Bharara, 16:45 (On the Slate truck)
• “I hate that we are moving to cars having every control through the screen.” — Preet Bharara, 19:39
• “China… produces more EVs than every other nation on earth combined.” — Andrew Hawkins, 23:35

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-01:46: Introduction; Ferrari and Slate truck teasers
• 01:46-05:00: Ferrari Luce backlash: design controversy, public response
• 05:00-08:40: Why Ferrari is pursuing an EV; targeting new demographics
• 09:24-10:52: Andrew’s personal impressions; the Luce as attention-drawer
• 15:23-19:24: Introduction to the Slate truck; radical minimalism and customizability
• 20:14-22:56: Car prices, battery cost, regulatory changes, and the U.S.–China EV gap
• 24:13-25:45: Consumer concerns: range anxiety, economics, shifting used EV market

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Takeaway

Ferrari's Luce and the Slate truck represent the polar extremes of the EV market in America—a luxury object for the ultra-wealthy and a bare-bones workhorse for budget-conscious buyers. Yet both are responses to cultural anxieties, shifting priorities, and economic realities as the country grapples with the “electric hump.” The episode offers a candid, witty, and insightful look at what it will really take for America to finally embrace the electric future.

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Transcript

[Sean Ramis]

Remember Joe Biden? Come on, man, he loved electric vehicles. Donald Trump, not so much. Everything's computer, but EVs are happening whether the powers that be want them or not. And on today. Explain from Vox. We're going to talk about two big splashy entries into the market. First up, the Ferrari Luce. To represent the Luce, there are three key that are Ferrari, Ferrari, Ferrari. Designed by the same guy who helped design the iPhone, believe it or not. Second up, the slate truck.

[Preet Bharara]

So when you see a slight truck, it should tug at your heart. That's what we're going for, a little

[Sean Ramis]

electric truck that doesn't even have power windows, believe it or not. But what we really want to know on the show is if either of these two cars are good enough or swaggy enough or cheap enough to help Americans get over that electric hump.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Come on.

[Preet Bharara]

Megan Rapinoe. Here this week is our last regular episode of A Touch More. Before I kick off a limited series, A Touch More the Beautiful Game, a special series for the World cup featuring in depth interviews with some of soccer's biggest stars. But for this week, we are closing out the era with a special compilation episode featuring our absolute favorite moments and themes from our last 90 episodes of a Touch More. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More Wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.

[Andrew Hawkins]

They see me rolling, they hating patrolling

[Sean Ramis]

and trying to catch me.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Today explained. I'm Andrew Hawkins and I'm the transportation editor at the Verge.

[Sean Ramis]

And I guess last week was a big week for you because Ferrari, of all companies, put out an ev.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Ferrari. Yeah, it was a pretty exciting week for people who have very strong feelings about Ferrari, which I was surprised to learn is a lot of people. There's a lot of people who have very, you know, sort of a rollercoaster of emotions about Ferrari, which was amazing.

[Sean Ramis]

I love it because people were really excited that Ferrari put out this ev.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Excited is not the word I would use to describe it. I would say aghast or dismayed maybe would be a better way. I don't think it's really an understatement to say he was greeted by a chorus of booze. I tried my best to not just come online and be negative, but that new Ferrari Luci is the ugliest car I've ever seen. When you look at a car, especially Ferrari, it needs to make you feel something.

[Sean Ramis]

This makes me feel numb, actually. It makes me feel a little bit angry.

[Andrew Hawkins]

This looks like the kind of thing that even football mums would just ding the door of Whenever they went to Tesco's, because they don't care about it. What has happened to Ferrari. So there are mad. There's a whole spectrum of mad about the Luce. There are people who are mad on principle that Ferrari would deign to put out an electric vehicle. I don't hate it as a car,

[Sean Ramis]

but I hate it as a Ferrari.

[Andrew Hawkins]

There are people who are mad about the design of the car, the way that it looked, right, which was very much not like a Ferrari. It was. It was sort of the antithesis of what a Ferrari looks like.

[Preet Bharara]

The rims are goofy and cartoonish. There are no lines, no detail. Nothing that screams luxury, speed, or even style.

[Andrew Hawkins]

And there were people who were mad about the associations of, you know, with Jony I've and his design firm, which, you know, sort of took over a lot of the design aspects of the vehicle.

[Preet Bharara]

Make an EV that embodies art and performance, not this bland bar of soap with a blocky interior.

[Sean Ramis]

Let's talk about the design. People say it looks like a Nissan

[Andrew Hawkins]

Leaf that was really cold, Much like most of these electric vehicles. Right. They have to be kind of shaped like a jelly bean in a lot of ways because of aerodynamic considerations. You know, I saw one person describe it as similar to how the apple magic mouse looks, the wireless. Wireless Mac mouse that Jony I've helped design. So I think it just sort of looks kind of like a slab to a lot of people. And that is just not the traditional Ferrari.

[Sean Ramis]

Surely that was part of the plan, right? We're making an ev. We're venturing into this new realm. Let's not have it look like the Ferraris of yore.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I think absolutely, it was. I think that there was a sense inside the company that, you know, they needed to do something that was different than the rest of their lineup. Right. Like, if Ferrari's gonna put out an ev, they couldn't just take one of their classic models and just sort of stick an electric motor on it and call it a day. They wanted to start from sort of first principles, a blank slate, if you will. And I think bringing Jony I've and his firm Lovefrom into the process was sort of a way of signaling that this was going to be something that was not in keeping with Ferrari's traditional design. Right. There's a lot of people who really liked the inside of the vehicle and the way that it kind of blends digital and analog controls. There's a lot of switches and toggles and grab bars and physical touch points that really, I Think a lot of people were excited about because, you know, sort of in the, in the EV world, right, you're just dealing with what, what is essentially just like a giant computer on wheels for the most part. And I think that that excited a lot of people. And then the actual car came out and people got pissed off.

[Sean Ramis]

I mean when I heard people saying it looks like a Nissan Leaf, I went and looked up of course what a Nissan Leaf looked like. And if we're being honest, like they're not wrong, it looks like a nicer version of a Nissan Leaf on the outside. But then I went to the verge and I looked at your guys coverage and I saw all these incredible photos of the inside. And on the inside you start to sorta understand why this car might cost something like $700,000. Although, although that still feels expensive. What are people getting for six hundred and some thousand dollars just to be

[Andrew Hawkins]

sort of like to set expectations here. No one has driven this car yet, right? It's just been revealed to the public for the first time last week. I think that they allowed a couple of F1 drivers, Lewis Hamilton amongst them, get behind some of the pre production models.

[Sean Ramis]

The power delivery is amazing.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You just feel centered the whole time, even when you're going through corners, which is really nice.

[Sean Ramis]

That's probably why I was so relaxed. You were pushing like craz. No, no, no, no, no, no, please don't do that. Lh, lh.

[Andrew Hawkins]

No one's actually tested the vehicle so we don't know how it drives, we don't know how it performs on the track or out on the road. And I think that that's going to really say a lot, right? Because in a lot of ways driving an electric car these days, it's remarkably similar from brand to brand, right? You get behind the wheel of a Nissan Leaf or a Hyundai or even a Tesla and you're going to get a lot of the same kind of driving characteristics. The instant quick acceleration, the smoothness, the quietness of the interior cabin. So you get all these things that are just sort of common across electric vehicles writ large. So I think again, what Ferrari is trying to do here with this model is they're trying to sort of maybe bring in a new demographic, right? A newer, younger, more tech focused demographic people, Silicon Valley billionaires amongst them. I think that's why you look across your, you know, crypto millionaires and all the people that are out there who are buying luxury vehicles. Ferrari is not very well represented amongst that group. You get a lot of Lamborghinis you get a lot of Porsche Bugatti, you don't see a lot of Ferrari. And I think Ferrari is trying to maybe branch out a little bit and bring in some new buyers. And I think that that's why this electric vehicle is coming out today.

[Sean Ramis]

Did it speak to the traditional Ferrari owners or do they not even engage with, like, I don't know, Internet discourse? So we don't even know.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I would imagine most of them are engaging. I didn't see a lot of reactions from. From current Ferrari owners. I think it was mostly just sort of like, you know, because if you

[Sean Ramis]

walk into the chat and you're like, I own three Ferraris, people just start throwing tomatoes at you.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Probably the. The pitchforks get pulled out at that, at that point. So, yeah, I mean, like, that's.

[Preet Bharara]

That.

[Andrew Hawkins]

That is sort of like, you know, the grain of salt that you need to take all of this with, right, is that it's a lot of people who will never own a Ferrari don't ever have the means in which to own a Ferrari and are just sort of commenting, right? But then I think that says something, right, that Ferrari is that type of brand that has that kind of global recognition and reputation. So I do think that that is sort of why Ferrari stepped on so many toes with this ev, because it is so far outside that kind of, like, very insular world.

[Sean Ramis]

What do you think about it? We've heard what the haters think. We haven't really heard what the Ferrari lovers think. What do you think about it? Andrew Hawkins, writer about automotive industry for the Verge.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You're asking me to put my feeble reputation on the line here, Sean. Yes, I actually kind of liked it, to be quite honest. I was not. I mean, like, I thought the exterior design was pretty meh. Keep in mind, I did not see it in person. The unveiling event took place in Rome, and Ferrari paid to fly out all these influencers and people to come out for the actual event.

[Sean Ramis]

Welcome to Ferrari Luce.

[Preet Bharara]

Okay, I genuinely. I don't know what to say. We've got the Ferrari Luce, the first ever electric Ferrari at the verge.

[Andrew Hawkins]

We have a very strict ethics policy. We do not accept paid travel from any company that we cover. So I was not able to go to this event. I thought the exterior was not like, it didn't, like, you know, offend me, really, but I thought it was kind of boring. But, yeah, again, the interior was really, I thought, really impressive. But again, we'll have to wait and see because nobody's gotten behind the wheel

[Sean Ramis]

yet no one knows much more about this car because only an elite few have driven it. Although I did see the Pope behind the wheel, but I didn't see the Pope.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I don't think he got to driving. Driving it. Yeah.

[Sean Ramis]

Is this the first four door Ferrari? So we may have to wait until next year until we see, I don't know, some tech bro like blast past us on the highway in a luce. But when that day comes, do you think people will be impressed?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I think like it's a Ferrari, right? Ferraris will always draw attention. Like there's something about a Ferrari that's kind of like a museum object to a lot of people. You don't see them on the road as much as you see some other luxury brands. So that when you do see them, it tends to draw this interest in this level of excitement. Right. So I do think that, you know, sort of in the same way that early on, like seeing The Tesla Model 3, for example, like turn people's heads in ways, people are like, what is that thing? That thing looks weird. That's not. Doesn't look like your normal car. I think in a lot of ways this luche will also do that. If you see it, what is that thing?

[Sean Ramis]

Looks kind of weird. That doesn't look like a normal car very much. Reminds me of the cybertruck, which I believe my friend's wife was like, nick, what is that garbage can?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I still, my kids, every time they see one, they're like, look, ew. You know, they like, they hate it. They have like a visceral reaction to it.

[Sean Ramis]

But there's another electric truck that we have to talk about.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Oh, yes, indeed.

[Preet Bharara]

The Slate truck pulls up to today, explained after the break,

[Andrew Hawkins]

Have we underestimated

[Sean Ramis]

the damage Trump has done?

[Preet Bharara]

It's easy perhaps to chuckle at a Donald Trump. There are times when he sort of, I think there are things that he does, you know, his little dance and some of the other kinds of things to come across as a rascal. But I think we have to look under those things at the real harm he has done to American institutions and the rule of law.

[Sean Ramis]

I'm Preet Bharara and this week former U.S. attorney Barb McQuaid joins me to discuss this administration's mob style governance and corruption. The episode is out now. Search and follow. Stay tuned with Preet. Wherever you get your podcasts, Support for the show today comes from hims. And what can I say about hims that hasn't already been said? Well, you may not realize it, but Ed is more Common than most people think and often more manageable than expected. With hims, you can connect online with a licensed provider to explore treatment options tailored to you all in a way that's private and on your schedule. You can complete a simple online intake and a provider will review your information to determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment ships directly to your door in discreet packaging. To get simple online access to personalized Affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss and more, visit hims.comexplained that's hims.comexplain for your free online visit hims.comexplain Prescription required. See website for details and important safety information. Sildenafil is a generic version of Viagra. Viagra is a registered trademark of Beatrice Specialty llc. HIMS is not affiliated with or endorsed by Beatrice.

[Andrew Hawkins]

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[Sean Ramis]

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[Andrew Hawkins]

So let's ride. This is today explained. So this like this to me represents sort of like the dichotomy in the EV market today, right? So you've got on the one hand you've got your Ferrari Luci that is, you know, you mentioned it, a $640,000 car that no one you will ever meet will probably buy this car. And then on the other hand you've got this slate truck that is the most bare bones two seater that you could possibly imagine. There's no radio, there's no touchscreen, there's no central screen inside the vehicle. There's no paint, there's so little.

[Sean Ramis]

I'm like is that legal?

[Andrew Hawkins]

You even have to opt in to get power windows otherwise they will just give you the rollie, right?

[Sean Ramis]

I love the idea of a electric truck that has manual roll them down windows.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I that that really just like when I, when I heard that, that blew my mind. The whole like philosophy behind this. This is a new startup, right? They've got a lot of investment cash from like Jeff Bezos and some other people and they're trying to like, you know, this is their first vehicle. And the theory behind it is that like we'll make this thing as stripped down as we possibly can. Take out all the bells and whistles,

[Preet Bharara]

you could say we took out everything that wasn't a car.

[Andrew Hawkins]

People can, you know, sort of after the fact, they can add a bunch of stuff.

[Preet Bharara]

You can select from over 100 accessories available individually or bundled to make the blank slate yours.

[Andrew Hawkins]

They could turn it into like a small SUV by adding sort of like a back section to it if they want. They could add wrappings so like decals. They can make it look however, you could personalize it and make it look however you want it to look, or you could just buy the stripped down bare bones version. And the idea being behind this that electric vehicles as they stand today, sort of Ferrari notwithstanding, you know, above the average cost of a, of a new gas powered vehicle. So we need to bring this price down. How are we going to do that? Well, still the most expensive part about any electric vehicle is the battery. So in order to have a good battery while still, you know, having like a decent car, you need to sort of take out everything else. And that's sort of the philosophy behind the slate, which is that will sell you. Basically. This is the absolutely stripped down version of a truck that you could possibly buy that'll still get you to point A to point B. If you want to add some stuff on, you can. And that's how they're saying that they're going to sell this thing for under $30,000 when it eventually comes out at the end of this year.

[Sean Ramis]

Okay, so unlike the Luche, people responded well to the slate truck. Why is it a truck? Why not a sedan, something more practical?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Well, trucks are very popular in the U.S. they're amongst the most best selling vehicles typically. The Ford F150, for example, was the best selling car for vehicle in America for a long time. But trucks are, this is America. We love our trucks. We love our big trucks. This is not a big truck. This is a small truck. And a lot of people have been saying trucks have gotten too big. They've gotten far too big for their britches. They're oversized behemoths out on the road that are dangerous. They're dangerous to pedestrians that are out walking around. They don't offer enough safety protections. And so maybe we need to come back to, like, more of a midsize or compact world of compact trucks.

[Sean Ramis]

Okay, so this reason to make a little truck seems based on market research. People want a truck, and here's a very different truck that we can offer them. What about this decision to literally strip away every single feature, including the paint, including the power windows, including the radio? Like, is that based on any market research that people can just do without all their nifty features, especially in 2026?

[Andrew Hawkins]

It's a real risky bet from Slate that people will respond to this. I think what they're trying to say is that maybe cars have become too bloated. Right? We're starting to see pullback from too much convenience features.

[Preet Bharara]

I hate that we are moving to cars having every control through the screen.

[Sean Ramis]

You should not have to aim your tiny little pointer finger, add a tiny little icon on a screen to try and change your music, and switch over to maps right after. Nowadays, you gotta swipe left, go up, scroll right, click this, touch that, just to turn on, you know, your heated

[Andrew Hawkins]

or your cooled seats. And especially in the. In the car market, with people feeling, you know, a lot of pressure on their pocketbooks from rising gas prices and just, you know, inflation in general and how expensive new cars have become.

[Preet Bharara]

Prices are soaring at gas stations and at the dealership. New vehicles. Vehicles are going for an average of $50,000 today versus pre pandemic. The average transaction price for a new vehicle has gone up around 30%.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Buying a new car was a milestone, but now for many Americans, it's starting to look more like a luxury, you know, that is an enormous premium over where it's been traditionally for many years. So I think people are feeling real strapped for cash these days, and they're looking for something that is a little bit more down market on one hand, but also, I think it's a reflection of where the expenses are in building a new car and the realization that you can't just put out a car, especially an electric vehicle today without some plan to make it profitable. One of the original mistakes of the auto industry, and especially the American auto industry, was that they could take a lot of their most popular cars, retrofit them to be electric, and that people would respond to them. That was, I think, a pretty understandable bet from a lot of these companies, But I don't think they were really taking costs into effect for a lot of that. And what we ended up with was a lot of cars that were indistinguishable from their gas counterparts that just had electric batteries, but were 20 to 30% more expensive than those gas cars. So I think that the fact that the battery still remains the most expensive part of an electric vehicle, there's hopes that that will come down over time, especially as we start to localize the supply chain more in America. China has traditionally had a lot of, exerted a lot of control over the EV supply chain, especially around batteries. And there's the hope that we can sort of lessen the control that China has and sort of have that spread out a little bit more so that those costs can come down for some of these companies. But I think there's an understanding that if that is the sort of the primary cost driver in building a new electric vehicle, that battery, we need to get rid of everything else so that we can still keep this thing at a price that is below $30,000. Especially any of the incentives or the policies that have been in place that Trump has gotten rid of over the last few years, like there's not going to be a tax credit, there's not, there's not going to be any emissions regulations. The Trump administration announced the largest deregulatory action in US History this week, eliminating federal vehicle emissions standards and claiming it will save Americans trillions. But environmental advocates say the costs could be much higher. And for automakers, it means removing a

[Sean Ramis]

stable, predictable regulatory framework that has allowed automakers to ensure, invest, to innovate and to compete globally.

[Andrew Hawkins]

But I mean, like in so many ways, automotive, especially our automotive industry, is a stand in for our whole economy, right? We, we sort of hold up the auto industry as being sort of this kind of beacon for, which represents our innovativeness, you know, sort of our leadership on the global stage. And I think that we've ceded that, that leadership now to China. China is now leading. They sell the most cars, they export the most cars and they have the best technology. They've cracked the code on cheap EVs. A modern day behemoth of design and manufacturing, it produces more EVs than every other nation on earth combined.

[Sean Ramis]

He's trading in his Lexus for a byd, which stands for build your dreams. It's a Chinese car company you won't

[Andrew Hawkins]

really find in the US but which

[Sean Ramis]

overtook Tesla, Tesla last year as the world's top seller of fully electric vehicles.

[Andrew Hawkins]

It's next to nothing for them to put out a very good electric car that is like nine, $10,000 U.S. i think the ship has sailed in some respects. I feel like America is always going to have an outsized reputation. But whether that reputation is actually earned anymore, I think is a very open question right now.

[Sean Ramis]

Where are the people though, Andrew? Do the people want EVs in this country yet, or do they still have range anxiety and a preference for the combustion engine? Does the war in Iran factor into how the people feel right now?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, I mean, that has always been the case. Right. People vote with their pocketbooks, right? That's where their preferences are today. And I think when electric vehicles were first gaining popularity, you heard a lot about charging anxiety. You heard a lot about range anxiety.

[Preet Bharara]

I finally ran out of charge with my electric car. I can't stop shaking right now.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Fun little fact about the EV world.

[Sean Ramis]

Want to know what happens when you

[Andrew Hawkins]

run out of electricity?

[Sean Ramis]

Easy. You just call a diesel tow truck to come get you to tow you

[Andrew Hawkins]

to the charging station. And that includes Tesla 7 mile range charge immediately.

[Preet Bharara]

I'm sweating bullets.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I won't be home for another like seven minutes.

[Sean Ramis]

Oh, God.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I think those are still considerations, but I feel right now the number one consideration for most people is, you know, I'm living paycheck to paycheck and, you know, you know, it's costing me 80, $90 to fill up my F150. The used EV market right now is extremely attractive to a lot of people. You can get a very good electric vehicle for around $20,000. You know, you take it home, you set up a home charger, you charge that thing overnight, you never have to go to a gas station again. That's a pretty attractive proposition to a lot of people.

[Sean Ramis]

Andrew Hawkins drives an electric vehicle to work at the Verge. Read him and his [e-mail] Ariana Spuru produced for Vox. Jolie Myers edited Gabriel Donatov fax and David Tadashore and Patrick Boyd mixed. The pit crew includes Dustin de Soto, Peter Ballin on Rosen, Danielle Hewitt, Kelly Wessinger, Hadi Mwagdi Miles, Bryan Amna, Al Saadi Abhishai, artsy pit host Noel King and pit boss Miranda Kennedy. Breakmaster Cylinder's Got Bops. I'm Sean Ramis for him Today Explained is distributed by wnyc. The show is a part of the Vox Media podcast network. For more award winning shows visit podcasts.voxmedia.com youm can listen ad free by signing [e-mail] members thank you.