The right to die

Summary

Today, Explained: The Right to Die
Vox | Release Date: December 17, 2024

---

Introduction: The Global Landscape of Assisted Dying

In this compelling episode of Today, Explained, hosts Sean Rameswaram and Noelle King delve into the intricate and emotionally charged debate surrounding the right to die. Starting with groundbreaking statistics from Canada, the podcast sets the stage for a global exploration of medical assistance in dying (MAID).

Key Points:

• Canada's MAID Statistics: Recent Canadian government data reveals that approximately one in 20 individuals in Canada choose MAID, encompassing various terms such as voluntary euthanasia and medically assisted suicide (00:00-00:34).
• Motivations Behind MAID: Over one-third of Canadians opting for MAID cite feeling like a burden on others as their primary reason (00:34-00:43).
• Global Momentum: The episode underscores a growing international momentum pushing for the legalization of assisted dying, with the UK Parliament taking significant steps in this direction (00:43-01:01).

---

UK Parliament's Historic Vote on Assisted Dying

The podcast shifts focus to the United Kingdom, where a landmark vote in the House of Commons marks a pivotal moment in the assisted dying debate.

Key Points:

• Historic Legislation: For the first time, British MPs voted in favor of legalizing assisted dying in England and Wales, with a close vote of 334 to 275 (02:31-03:12).
• Conditions and Restrictions: The proposed law applies to adults diagnosed with a terminal illness and a prognosis of less than six months to live. Notably, individuals must self-administer the lethal drug, and the process requires authorization from two physicians and a High Court judge (03:12-04:37).

Notable Quotes:

• Carla Adam (UK Correspondent, Washington Post): “This is historic... there is a very decent chance of this becoming law.” (03:17-03:23)
• Kim Ledbeater (Labor MP and bill sponsor): “This is not about shortening life, this is about shortening death.” (05:07-05:12)

Arguments for Assisted Dying:

• Autonomy and Choice: Advocates emphasize the importance of personal choice and autonomy at the end of life, aiming to alleviate unbearable suffering (05:07-05:46).
• Emotional Testimonials: Personal stories, such as that of Tim and his wife Louise, highlight the profound pain and desperation that MAID seeks to address (05:22-05:46).

Arguments Against Assisted Dying:

• Protection of the Vulnerable: Opponents worry about safeguarding vulnerable populations from potential coercion or societal pressures (07:21-07:49).
• Sanctity of Life and Palliative Care: Critics argue that improving end-of-life care is a better solution than introducing assisted dying (07:21-08:20).

Notable Quotes:

• David Davies (Conservative MP): “I have witnessed... people who have died slowly and in agony beyond the reach of palliative care.” (06:27-06:47)
• Danny Kruger (Conservative MP, opponent): “Parliament could do better than what he called a state suicide service.” (07:49-08:20)

Public Opinion vs. Political Action: Despite intense political debates, public opinion in the UK remains overwhelmingly supportive of MAID, with polls indicating over 70% favoring assisted dying under certain restrictions (09:10-09:35).

---

Global Perspectives: Assisted Dying Around the World

The discussion broadens to include international perspectives, highlighting how various countries are grappling with the legalization and regulation of assisted dying.

Key Points:

• European Developments: Countries like Austria, Spain, and Portugal have legalized assisted dying, while others like Italy and Germany are making notable legal strides (09:35-10:48).
• United States: Oregon pioneered assisted dying in the US, with several other states and Washington D.C. following suit (09:35-10:48).
• High-Profile Cases: The film The Sea Inside illustrates the emotional and societal impacts of assisted dying, inspired by real-life cases (10:48-11:00).

Notable Quotes:

• Marin Kogan (Vox Senior Correspondent): “Life for me in this state has no dignity.” (10:48-10:51)
• Marin Kogan: “He filmed himself taking poison after a huge 28 year effort to secure the right to die.” (11:00-11:32)

---

Switzerland’s Unique Approach and Controversies

Switzerland stands out with its distinctive approach to assisted dying, introducing innovative yet controversial methods such as the sarcopod.

Key Points:

• Legal Framework: Switzerland's criminal code allows-assisted suicide for non-selfish purposes, making it the first country to explicitly permit it (16:54-17:31).
• Sarcopod Introduction: The sarcopod, a device resembling a futuristic tanning bed, offers a new method for assisted suicide by administering nitrogen gas (17:38-19:38).
• Controversial Case: Only one known use of the sarcopod—a case involving an American woman—has sparked significant debate and scrutiny regarding its ethical implications (19:37-20:34).

Notable Quotes:

• Marin Kogan: “It's called sarco, short for sarcophagus, and the idea is to revolutionize assisted suicide by taking doctors out of the picture.” (19:03-19:25)
• Marin Kogan: “This has raised a bunch of really difficult to answer questions about the practice...” (19:49-20:32)

---

Challenges in Canada: Ensuring Ethical MAID Implementation

Canada's experience with MAID since its legalization in 2016 reveals ongoing challenges and ethical concerns, particularly regarding the motivations behind choosing assisted dying.

Key Points:

• Expansion of MAID: MAID has become more common, but concerns persist about its application beyond terminal illnesses (20:34-21:24).
• Non-Medical Motivations: Reports indicate that some individuals seek MAID for reasons such as financial insecurity and loneliness, raising alarms about vulnerable populations being pressured into assisted dying (21:24-23:04).
• Case Study Highlight: A man in his 40s with inflammatory bowel disease sought MAID without adequate psychiatric assessment or family involvement, highlighting potential loopholes and abuses in the system (22:00-23:04).

Notable Quotes:

• Marin Kogan: “The critics' main concern is that this could become... an option that sort of pushed on really vulnerable people...” (22:00-23:04)

---

Personal Reflections and the Human Element

Marin Kogan shares a poignant personal anecdote that underscores the profound human impact of decisions around assisted dying and the critical importance of compassionate care.

Key Points:

• Personal Encounter: Kogan recounts an encounter with a man contemplating suicide, emphasizing the varied forms that care and support can take (23:39-26:59).
• Balancing Autonomy and Protection: The narrative highlights the delicate balance societies must achieve between respecting individual autonomy and ensuring the protection of vulnerable individuals (26:00-26:59).

Notable Quotes:

• Marin Kogan: “Getting it right is like the most important thing that any society could do right. It's a matter of life or death.” (26:00-26:59)

---

Conclusion: Navigating the Future of Assisted Dying

As the right to die continues to gain traction globally, Today, Explained emphasizes the ongoing need for nuanced discussions and thoughtful legislation to navigate the ethical complexities of assisted dying. The episode underscores that while public support is substantial, the implementation of MAID requires meticulous consideration of individual rights, societal protections, and the diverse circumstances that influence end-of-life decisions.

---

Produced by Myles Bryan, Edited by Matthew Collette, Fact-Checked by Laura Buller, Engineered by Patrick Boyd and Andrea Kristen’s Daughter. Stay informed with Vox’s Today, Explained.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Well, they said it couldn't be done but for the second day in a row today explained leads with news from the 51st state Canada. Just a few days ago the Canadian government released some new data about deaths there. Around one in 20 people in Canada now die with medical assistance, voluntary euthanasia, medically assisted suicide, medical assistance in dying or maid. There are several terms that we now use as the world debates whether or not this is okay.

[Host 2]

In Canada, we know that more than one in three people opting for cysted dying gave the reason for choosing to die, but they felt they were a burden on others.

[Host 1]

Honestly, I don't see in the UK Parliament just voted to advance the cause and other countries seem poised to follow. The push for a right to die gains steam Coming up.

[Sponsor 1]

Support for this podcast comes from Stripe. Stripe is a payments and billing platform supporting millions of businesses around the world, including companies like uber, BMW and DoorDash. Stripe has helped countless startups and established companies alike reach their growth targets, make progress on their missions and reach more customers globally. The platform offers a suite of specialized features and tools to fast track growth like Stripe Billing, which makes it easy to handle subscription based charges, invoicing and all recurring revenue management needs. You can learn how Stripe helps companies of all sizes make [e-mail] that's stripe.com to learn more. Stripe Make Progress.

[Sponsor 2]

Artificial intelligence Smart houses, electric vehicles. We are living in the future, so why not make 2024 the year you go fully electric with Chevy? The all electric 2025 Equinox EVLT starts around $34,995. Equinox EV, a vehicle you know, value you'd expect and a dealer right down the street go EV without changing a thing. Learn more at chevy.com equinoxev the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price.

[Sponsor 1]

You're listening to TODAY Explained.

[Carla Adam]

I'm Carla Adam. I'm the UK Correspondent for the Washington Post.

[Host 1]

You've been covering this debate around what people are calling the right to die there in the United Kingdom. What is going on?

[Carla Adam]

Yeah, so we had a hugely significant vote in the House of Commons recently, and I know that journalists don't shy away from using the word historic, but it feels apt in this case. And that's because for the first time, British MPs have voted in favour of legalising assisted dying in England and Wales. After hours of debate today, the House of Commons voted 334 and 275 against supporting the bill.

[Marin Kogan]

Look, this is a really significant moment. For the first time, Parliament has approved.

[Carla Adam]

The principle of there being a way for there to be assisted dying in England and Wales.

[Host 2]

The campaigners allowed themselves some congratulations outside.

[Tim]

Oh, yeah. In the middle.

[Carla Adam]

This is not a done deal. So it still has to move through various stages in Parliament. And in the new year, we'll start to hear some public hearings. If it does pass all the hurdles, it could still be two to three years before it's a real possibility, but there is a very decent chance of this becoming lost. So, yes, it's historic, and people have compared it to the decriminalization of abortion in the 1960s, and they're making these kind of comparisons.

[Host 1]

What are we talking about here when we talk about assisted dying?

[Carla Adam]

So in the case of England and Wales, it applies to adults who have been diagnosed with a terminal illness and they have less than six months to live. And the second crucial thing is you have to administer the drug yourself. And that makes it distinct from some countries where a doctor can administer a lethal drug. But also there are more restrictions. So in the UK case, the request will need to be authorized by two physicians as well as a High Court judge.

[Host 1]

All right, so there's a lot of restrictions here. You have to be terminally ill, you have to have only less than six months to live. It doesn't sound like it's going to be easy to just do this should you want to do it. When people advocate for assisted dying, why do they say it's needed?

[Carla Adam]

Yeah, well, I think it's helpful to talk about the debate in the House of Commons, which was incredibly powerful. Respectful, emotional debate.

[Host 2]

Before I begin proceedings, I would like to say a few words to help manage expectations about business today. More than 160 members have indicated that they wish to speak in the first debate.

[Carla Adam]

Kim Ledbeater, she's the main sponsor of the bill. She's a Labor mp, and she talked very movingly about choice and autonomy. And she made the point that this is not about shortening life, this is about shortening death. And she recounted some heartbreaking stories and said the current law wasn't serving people and that we need to have choice to alleviate suffering at the end of life.

[Tim]

Tim fell in love at first sight when he met his wife, Louise. He proposed after just three days. But Louise got cancer twice, and at the end, the morphine simply could not control her pain. In desperation, she managed to smash a small glass bottle and tried to take her own life, not realizing that her toddler daughter had got into bed with her Tim found her. He says, you get to a point where you stop praying for a miracle and start praying for mercy.

[Carla Adam]

Another very moving speech was given by David Davies. He's a Conservative mp, a senior figure in the Conservative Party, and he talked about how he changed his mind.

[Host 2]

I'm a believer in the sanctity of life, but I'm also an antagonist to torture and misery at the end of life. And I have witnessed with constituents, in particular, any number of people who have died slowly and in agony beyond the reach of palliative care.

[Carla Adam]

Those were just some of the very powerful arguments in favor of this bill.

[Host 1]

And so what were the arguments against it?

[Carla Adam]

Yeah, so there's an equally sort of passionate case against the bill. And here we heard arguments about the need to protect the vulnerable, the sanctity of life, the need to focus on improving the end of life care rather than introducing assisted dying, especially for those who might think that they are a burden. And Diane Abbott, she's the mother of the House, a senior figure in the Labour Party. She made a very impassioned plea.

[Host 2]

There will be those who say to themselves they don't want to be a burden. And I can imagine myself saying that in particular circumstances, others will worry that assets they'd hoped to leave for their grandchildren are being eroded by the cost of care. And there will even be a handful who will think they should not be taking up a hospital bed.

[Carla Adam]

And she also raised a lot of questions about logistics. So what exactly would a High Court judge do? Would there be a trial? What if the judge disagreed with the doctors? Would they even ever do that? Or is this just a rubber stamp? Danny Kruger, he's probably the leading opponent against the bill. He's a Conservative mp. He talked about how Parliament could do better than what he called a state suicide service, language that some people said was inflammatory.

[Host 2]

Real choice and autonomy means having access to the best care possible and the fullest control over what happens to you while you live. That true dignity consists in being cared for to the end.

[Carla Adam]

If you zoom out, you see these really two human instincts playing out, which is the desire to alleviate human suffering and the desire to protect the vulnerable. And it's playing out not just in Parliament, but also across society. We've had former prime ministers and faith leaders and those in the medical community all weighing in. And, yeah, it's been very emotional.

[Host 1]

I feel like if this debate was happening in the United States, it would be like everything else. It would be like the country is split exactly 50, 50 right down the middle. What do the Numbers tell us about whether or not this is actually popular in the uk.

[Carla Adam]

I was just looking this up and I found one poll that showed over 70% of people back assisted dying with some restrictions. So, I mean, there's overwhelming support for this here. And in a way the politics are catching up with public opinion, and not just public opinion in 2024. There has long been support for assisted dying in the UK and not just in the UK and in several countries.

[Host 1]

Where else do you see this debate playing out?

[Carla Adam]

Yeah, it's playing out in a lot of countries. And I should say that it is illegal in most countries around the world. But at the same time, I think we've seen a lot of countries revisiting their prohibitions on assisted dying in recent years. Like just since 2021, for instance, we've had Austria, Spain, Portugal, they've all passed laws in Italy and Germany. There isn't a national law, but the courts have effectively made it legal. The first state to allow assisted dying in the US was Oregon, but a handful of states now have a version of this, including dc. I think there's been really interesting movement in Ireland, which is a hugely Catholic country, and Parliament is considering it there and we'll see if that's taken on board when there's a new government in the new year. In many countries there's been a single specific case that has really drawn attention to this issue. And people might be familiar with the movie with Javier Bardem. It's called the Sea Inside, and it's about a young man, a young Spanish man, who was paralyzed after a diving accident.

[Marin Kogan]

Life for me in this state has no dignity.

[Noelle King]

You're sitting there three feet away, but.

[Marin Kogan]

For me, those three feet are an impossible journey.

[Carla Adam]

He filmed himself taking poison after a huge 28 year effort to secure the right to die. And I mean, this was a massive deal in Spain. And it's not just Spain that has like singular cases like this that have really galvanized momentum behind the subject. But I mean, that's one sort of high profile example that was made into a film. But many other countries there'll be a singular case that just emotionally really, really sort of tugs at the nation.

[Host 1]

Okay, so this movement really is picking up steam. And it's not just in one country, it's not just in one place, it's all over Europe. Fascinating. What are you thinking about as this, as this option becomes more of a reality in the uk?

[Carla Adam]

I think that the details are going to become super important and we're going to see that play out over the next few months and perhaps a few years as if and when it comes into practice. Already some of the things that people are talking about are while the Parliament has said that they back the idea in principle, they will have to sort through the details. So things like, would the deaths happen at home or in hospital? How does this work exactly through the nhs? How much money does it cost? Are judges available to some sign off? Should doctors be banned from suggesting it? Is it only okay if the patient is the one who first raises it? I think the sort of nitty gritty like that is fascinating and there's a lot of unknowns.

[Host 1]

Yeah, the devil's really in the details here.

[Carla Adam]

Indeed.

[Host 1]

When we return, the details when death with dignity collides with reality. Now listen, if talk of suicide is not really for you, how about you take a break and we'll see you back here again tomorrow.

[Sponsor 3]

Support for Today Explain comes from the Liberties Journal Foundation. Are you familiar? Election season is a good time to reflect on and manage your media consumption. So if you want to take a break from the noise on social media and instead sit down with a good piece of writing after listening to your latest episode of Today Explained, then you might want to check out Liberties, a publication from the Liberties Journal Foundation. They say their goal is to inform today's cultural and political leaders. Hello. And inspire participation in the democratic process. Wow. Is that like our goal too? Anyway, you can engage with some of today's brightest minds with Liberties. You can subscribe [e-mail] explained or find liberties at your favorite bookseller. That's libertiesjournal.com explained. You might run into Mario Vargas Llosa or Ralph Fiennes. Check him out. Liberties journal.com.

[Host 1]

Support for today explained comes from Bombas. Bombas wants you to know that they've released their comfiest lineup yet. Socks so cozy your toesies will feel toasty. Bombas could be the perfect holiday gift from anyone. From your best friend, your favorite cousin, your least favorite cousin. Though you may be tempted to keep some for yourself. Bombas uses cozy fabrics. Your indulgent Sherpa, your rich merino, your premium long staple cotton. Bombas even offers Sherpa wrapped slippers made with marshmallow, like memory foam. Huh? Nisha Chital is our colleague at Vox and here's what she thinks of Bombas.

[Sponsor 2]

My family, they love to give them at Christmas. So I have so many in different colors, different patterns, solids, prints. I have a mix to, you know, go with different outfits. I wear them all the time.

[Host 1]

Bombas also wants you to know about their mission. For every item you buy, they donate an item to someone who really needs it. Are you ready to feel good and do good? You can go to bombas.com/explained and use the code explained for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O m b a s.com explained and use code explained at checkout.

[Sponsor 3]

Support for today explained comes from Noom. Noom wants to remind you that the end of the year is on the horizon and so if you made a New Year's resolution back in, you know, Jan, like it's crunch time, they say. And, and yes, maybe you cheated, maybe you lost track. We're all human. But Noom wants you to know that, you know, if you started rebounding with junk food on that diet, you resolved to, you know, commit to it may have less to do with discipline and more to do with psychology. Ask Phoebe Rios, one of our colleagues here at Vox who tried Noom herself.

[Sponsor 2]

I feel like the plan Noom created was catered to my individual needs. It was very thorough. I felt like the questions they asked, I hadn't even asked myself, like what time I get out of bed in the morning and if I eat with my phone in my hand. It was very helpful and very, very educating of how I spend my day.

[Sponsor 3]

Stay focused on what's important to you with noom's psychology and biology based approach. Sign up for your trial [e-mail].

[Host 1]

Today explained returns with Marin Kogan, Vox senior correspondent and resident of Switzerland. Which was the first country to legalize assisted dying.

[Marin Kogan]

So in the 1942 Swiss criminal code, they basically added a provision that says that assisted suicide for selfish purposes was explicitly outlawed. Now by omission, that meant that assisted suicide for non selfish purposes was allowed. And it kind of all took off from there. It was the first country that sort of explicitly allowed it in its criminal code. But most of the people who are seeking assisted suicides, most of them are Swiss, some of them come from other parts of the world, most of them are elderly and at the end of their lives and have some condition that is going to reasonably bring about their death sometime in the near future.

[Host 1]

And I assume there is some disagreement about how far these, these laws can and should go, or does everyone agree?

[Marin Kogan]

Yeah, there has been a really high level of consensus in Switzerland around the practice of assisted suicide for decades now. And anytime the Swiss people, they do a lot of direct democracy in this country, anytime the Swiss people are asked whether they'd like to Overturn assisted suicide. The answer is pretty resoundingly, no. But that's kind of all been upended with the invention of a new technology, the suicide pod. So this is a pod. It looks sort of like a tanning bed from the future. You can buy nitrogen gas cheaply, and you hook it up to this pod. You lay down inside the pod. The pod asks you if you're prepared to die, essentially. And you say yes and hit a button. It fills the chamber that you're in with nitrogen gas, and you pass away. And it was invented by, I would say he's the world's most prominent and strident right to die advocate. He's actually an Australian named Dr. Philip Nitschke.

[Host 1]

On a recent Saturday afternoon in Sydney, euthanasia advocate Dr. Philip Nitschke held a workshop about the best way to end your life.

[Marin Kogan]

Nitschke made international News back in 1990.

[Sponsor 3]

When assisted suicide was legal in Australia. He helped four people kill themselves before.

[Marin Kogan]

The law was overturned.

[Host 2]

People would use things which aren't very attractive, like plastic bags, and they would try to use gas from a compressed cylinder to be able to end their lives. This makes it something which is much more elegant, much more stylish and beautiful.

[Marin Kogan]

It's called sarco, short for sarcophagus, and the idea is to revolutionize assisted suicide by taking doctors out of the picture.

[Host 1]

How long does that take?

[Marin Kogan]

Well, so it's only been used once so far, and it was a very controversial case. It can take several minutes.

[Host 1]

Oh, good Lord.

[Marin Kogan]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So only one person in Switzerland has actually used the sarcopod. What happened? Like, what was the discussion around it? Like, who was this person? What do you know?

[Marin Kogan]

It's been used once by an American woman who came to Switzerland to be the first person to use the sarcopod to end her life. Now, if she had just come to Switzerland to end her life using the standard Swiss protocol, I think we probably would have never heard of this case. But the fact that she used the sarcopod has been massively controversial. And I think it has raised a bunch of really difficult to answer questions about the practice, both here in Switzerland, but around the world as more countries decide whether or not to legalize and enact medical aid in dying. And one of the countries that is sort of really struggling with those questions right now is Canada.

[Host 1]

No kidding. What's going on in Canada?

[Marin Kogan]

So Canada has had medical aid and dying since 2016. It has become a more frequent choice for many people at the end of their lives in the last several Years since it became legal. It is very controversial though, and a lot of people have concerns about who is approved for medical aid in dying and why. So there have been some stories that have come out about people who have been approved for medical aid in dying who didn't necessarily have a condition that was causing, many people would believe, unbearable suffering. It wouldn't reasonably bring about the end of their lives. I think even more concerning than that for a lot of people is there have been reports that people are seeking medical aid and dying for non explicitly medical reasons, such as financial insecurity, fears of loneliness.

[Host 1]

That what you just said is really quite disturbing. You know, if it's proven to be true. If somebody's making this choice for financial reasons, like the mind boggles, right?

[Marin Kogan]

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I want to say these aren't totally theoretical or speculative concerns. Some of them are real. You know, there are real concerns that some people are seeking and getting approved for reasons that are not necessarily life threatening or terminal illnesses. There's an example of this from a recent government report that came out a few months ago. There was a case study of a man who was in his 40s who had inflammatory bowel disease. And he really did suffer a number of issues because of that inflammatory bowel disease. He had difficulty maintaining a job, relationships, maintaining a social circle, that sort of thing. It was actually raised to him during a psychiatry assessment if he was aware that medical assistance in dying was an option for him. There was no documentation that showed that his family was engaged in the process. And this man had a history of mental illness and substance abuse. His substance abuse was not really explored during MAIDA assessments and he wasn't offered addiction treatments. So there are real concerns that this isn't just people who are suffering from something and clearly at the end of their natural lifespan, but people who are dealing with other issues who may be being presented with maid as an option. And I think that the critics main concern of this is that this could become sort of a more appealing option or an option that sort of pushed on really vulnerable people who might otherwise be helped with some other form of treatment.

[Host 1]

I would say I'm fairly, if not very uncomfortable with all of this. I think my knee jerk reaction is, look, for thousands of years we did not do this. For thousands of years we did not do this and we were fine. And yet it seems based on what we've learned this episode, I might in fact be in a minority here. I wonder why you think it's so important that we continue to engage with this Fight. And not just say, okay, folks, we experimented at the beginning of the 21st century. Let's just wrap it up and go back to not doing this.

[Marin Kogan]

Yeah, it's a great question. I think the flip side of that is that people have been doing this for centuries, and people have been getting help with ending their lives for centuries. And I think the other thing that I think about a lot is that the question of what care looks like is really hard to answer. The day before the story ran, I was taking a walk, and I saw a man on a bridge in Geneva. And I walked by him, not thinking too much of it, because this is, like, the most famous bridge in Geneva. And the water is so beautiful and clear and sort of turquoise, and people stop to look at it all the time. But I just had a sort of strange sense about this guy. So I decided to sort of turn around and see if I could get a better look at him. And he looked at me. I looked at him, and I thought, oh, no. So I quickly made my way back to him because I felt like I just needed to ask him if he was okay. And there was a sort of construction zone set up between where he was and I was, so I couldn't see him while I was walking back to him. But by the time I got back to the bridge, he wasn't there. And I realized that he had jumped. I ran down to the water, and I'm really happy to say this man was okay. People had seen him. He was pulled out of the water. And I stayed with this man. It was a sunny day, but it was really cold. So I put my hat and my coat on him and just stayed with him until someone came to pick him up and talk to him as best I could in my broken French. And the thing I was thinking about a lot after that happened was that care looks really different in different scenarios, right? So I think that man, in that moment really needed to be saved and really needed to be shown love and be shown that people care, you know? But I also think that there. And, you know, having had loved ones die, I've also seen times where care might look different from them, right? And I've. I've had loved ones who I've had conversations with about this, and I've also just sort of in my. In my broader social circle, have seen people decide that they don't want to undergo medical treatment anymore, right? Decide that they don't want to keep eating anymore, decide that they're done. It's hard. Those questions are really, really hard. And I think balancing people's needs and their rights and their autonomy and their pain are all really, really important. And I think, yeah, it just looks different depending on what the scenario is. So I think it's really incumbent on these societies to find a balance between respecting people's autonomy and individuality and right to make their own decisions and also making sure that we're not encouraging something deadly, right? I don't know that there are easy answers to this. I think it genuinely is really difficult. And I think getting it right is like the most important thing that any society could do right. It's a matter of life or death.

[Host 1]

Vox is Marin Kogan in Switzerland. Myles Bryan produced today's show. Matthew Collette edited Laura Buller fact checked Patrick Boyd and Andrea Kristen's daughter engineered I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained.

[Noelle King]

Support for the show comes from AT and T. What does it feel like to get the new iPhone 16 Pro with at and T? Next Up Anytime. It's like when you first light up the grill and think of all the mouthwatering possibilities. Learn how to get the new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on AT and T and the latest iPhone every year with AT and T. Next up anytime. ATT connecting changes everything Apple Intelligence coming fall 2024 with Siri and device language set to US English. Some features and languages will be coming over the next year. $0 offer may not be available on future iPhones. Next Up Anytime feature may be discontinued at any time, subject to change additional fees. Terms and restrictions apply. See att.com iPhone for details.

[Sponsor 1]

Marketing to Small Businesses With Intuit SMB Media Labs, you can connect to millions of small businesses across new and established channels like Social, Programmatic and ctv. With first party, small business audiences, target by industry size, maturity, location and more, and connect with the companies that need you most. Do more with tailored insights from Intuit SMB Media Labs. Learn [e-mail].