Today, Explained – “The Rise of the Introverts”

Date: December 7, 2025
Host: Jonathan Hill (Vox)
Expert Guests:

• Shannon Sauer Zavala, Professor of Psychology, University of Kentucky
• Olga Hazan, Writer and Author of Me But Better
  Listener Guest: Lidell

Overview

This episode explores the surging popularity of “introvert” as an identity, especially since the COVID-19 pandemic. The hosts investigate why so many people now self-identify as introverts, the scientific understanding of introversion/extraversion, and whether personality traits are fixed or can change. Listener Lidell, an extrovert, sparks the conversation with observations about introversion’s cultural moment, and experts unravel the continuum of personality—dispelling myths about fixed types and offering insights on personal growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Introversion a Trend?

• Listener question: Lidell observes “introvert” has become a buzzword, with people embracing it even if their behaviors suggest otherwise. He asks: Is this a wider cultural shift? Did the pandemic accelerate it?
• Lidell: “It just seems like the introvert thing is a new hot word that everyone has caught on to and is clinging to, even if they don’t demonstrate the qualities.” (01:08)
• He’s noticed outgoing people claiming introversion and wonders if society is becoming more disconnected.

2. The Science of Personality: Spectrum, Not Boxes

• Expert: Dr. Shannon Sauer Zavala explains that most personality traits, including introversion and extroversion, exist on a continuum, not as binary categories.
• Sauer Zavala: “Most things about people are not categories. We’re not this or that. It’s more of a matter of degree.” (09:26)
• She discusses the “Big Five” personality model—openness, conscientiousness, extraversion-introversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism—highlighting their nuanced nature (13:08–14:46).

Notable Quote

• Sauer Zavala: “You can be more towards the introverted side or more towards the extroverted side, but this is a continuum with different poles.” (05:33)

3. Pandemic Effects and Social ‘Rustiness’

• The pandemic disrupted social habits, leading many to reassess their social needs and comfort zones.
• Sauer Zavala: “I think people might be kind of confusing discovery, comfort, and a little rustiness with, like, ‘I’m introverted.’” (06:49)
• The shift has coincided with a social acceptance, even celebration, of introvert qualities in networking, creativity, and leadership.

Notable Quote

• Sauer Zavala: “There’s been more recognition of introverts as having qualities that are really desirable.” (07:03)

4. Aging and Shifting Social Preferences

• Listener Question: Does introversion increase with age?
• Sauer Zavala: The answer is nuanced. Assertiveness (social dominance) may increase, but energy for socializing (social vitality) often decreases.
• Sauer Zavala: “What I really want to highlight, though, is that these are on average, and nobody is really the average person.” (08:15–09:13)

5. Misunderstandings: Personality Typing vs. Scientific Assessment

• Popular tests (like Myers-Briggs) are entertaining, but scientifically, the Big Five model is more accurate and predictive of real-life outcomes.
• Sauer Zavala: “Personality type tests are about as good at predicting career success and relationship satisfaction as your zodiac sign.” (15:21)

Notable Quote

• Sauer Zavala: “Academic personality science needs, like, a PR person because we’re not really good at spreading the word on what personality actually is.” (09:26)

6. Personality is Not Set in Stone

• Many believe personality is immutable, but research—and personal experience—shows traits can shift, especially with intentional effort.
• Sauer Zavala: "You should identify what’s important to you...and then figure out what are the traits that will help get you there and intentionally cultivate them." (17:15–17:50)

Experiment: Can Personality Change?

7. Case Study: Olga Hazan's Year of Extroversion

• Olga Hazan, an avowed introvert, deliberately challenged herself to become more extroverted after the pandemic left her lonely.
• She took a scientific personality test, found herself in the 23rd percentile for extroversion, and embarked on exercises: hosting dinners, talking to strangers, and even doing improv.
• Hazan: “I just wanted to rip the band aid off and do the most extreme thing possible.” (21:50)
• Improv forced her outside her comfort zone, building new social muscles.
• After a year, her personality scores shifted: “My score went way up…it went up to, like, high or something, or medium high…” (23:09)

Notable Quotes

• Hazan: “Pretty much like, all the introvert worst nightmares were played out every single time in improv.” (22:56)
• Hazan: “You're not necessarily stuck with what you were given or the story that you’re telling yourself about your personality traits...you can actually kind of explore more of the world and possibly find things that are more fulfilling.” (24:40)

8. Benefits of Introversion

• Even as Hazan expanded her extroverted skills, she notes the value of introvert tendencies—solitude, contemplation, comfort in one’s own company (25:14).

Notable Quote

• Hazan: “There are strengths to being introverted and to being contemplative and having, like, quiet moments to yourself ... Carl Jung...once said that there's no such thing as a pure introvert or pure extrovert. Such a person would be in the insane asylum.” (25:14)

Key Timestamps

• 00:50 – 03:58: Listener Lidell describes his observations about introversion’s recent popularity and wonders if people are mislabeling themselves.
• 05:16 – 06:49: Dr. Sauer Zavala explains the personality continuum and the pandemic’s impact on self-perception.
• 07:17 – 08:15: Discussion of introverts’ underappreciated skills.
• 09:13 – 10:13: How psychologists actually measure and define personality.
• 13:08 – 17:50: The Big Five model, why we like types, and the possibility of intentional change.
• 19:32 – 23:53: Olga Hazan’s yearlong experiment to become more extroverted.
• 24:40 – 25:14: Discovering new aspects of yourself through change; the value in both introversion and extroversion.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Sauer Zavala: “I remember going out to dinner when we were first allowed to go out to dinner and being like, man, I got weird.” (06:28)
• Lidell, on extroversion: “Excessive solitude physically drains me.” (01:51)
• Hazan, on confronting fears: “I just wanted to rip the band aid off and do the most extreme thing possible.” (21:50)

Conclusion

The episode demystifies the introversion “boom,” clarifying that personality is complex, mostly fluid, and responsive to deliberate effort. The hosts and guests urge listeners to abandon rigid labels and instead focus on understanding themselves along spectra—intentionally building the traits that match their values and goals. Both introversion and extroversion are valuable; the key is self-awareness and growth.

For listeners looking to better understand themselves—or try on new ways of being—"The Rise of the Introverts" offers both clarity and hope.