Jonathan Hill (2:08)

And that really narrowed my search down.

Doug Belkin (2:11)

To a couple schools primarily in the South. And what particularly drew me to go.

Jonathan Hill (2:16)

Down south for undergraduate was the fact.

Doug Belkin (2:19)

That I wanted to be a part.

Jonathan Hill (2:21)

Of a historic black college.

Jonathan Hill (2:23)

And the preponderance of those colleges tends.

Jonathan Hill (2:25)

To be in the American South. Wall Street Journal reporter Doug Belkin covers higher ed, and he's seen a pretty big change. I asked him what the hard numbers are.

Doug Belkin (2:36)

The numbers of kids from the north heading south has increased, I think 88% over about a decade. You know, traditionally there were some schools that attracted kids from the north, the elite schools like Vanderbilt and UVA and unc that's expanded to the public's and the numbers are just have really exploded since the pandemic. So the schools that have been really driving this Clemson, Georgia Institute of Technology, University of Mississippi has really climbed. University of Tennessee at Knoxville. A number of freshmen from the Northeast jumped to nearly 600 in a class of about 6,800 last year, up from about 50 in 2002. Some of these schools, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa. 11% of students are now coming from the Northeast. It was less than 1% two decades ago. It's actually a big issue. A lot of the administrators we spoke to on the story said their biggest problem is handling growth, trying to keep up, trying to make sure that the infrastructure can match the expanding student body, which is, you know, not a problem that a lot of the northern states are dealing with.

Jonathan Hill (3:44)

So when did we see this trend start?

Doug Belkin (3:51)

So this has been going on for a decade, but after the pandemic, it accelerated considerably. And students were looking up north. They were seeing their older brothers and sisters and cousins sort of stuck in dorm rooms, being sequestered, looking lockdowns. And in the south, they were more open with where you could be. The football games were going on. People up north were watching that happen on television, and they were jealous. And these kids who were sophomores and juniors at the time said, maybe I should consider going south for school.

Jonathan Hill (4:26)

Obviously, college is also more expensive than it used to be. What role is cost playing in all of this?

Doug Belkin (4:34)

So the Southern publics are just good deals right now. They cost, in some cases, 10 and $15,000 less than the flagships, even for home state kids up north. So a number of the students we spoke to for this story said that finances made the decision for them. One of the young women we spoke to wanted to go to Syracuse. It was about 80 grand. They offered her a $15,000 scholarship. She got into South Carolina, and it was less than half of that. And that kind of made the decision for her.

Jonathan Hill (5:05)

I wonder, for the students that are from the north and go south, if there's any sense of culture shock.

Doug Belkin (5:11)

Yeah, the kids did speak about that a lot. Almost all of it was in a positive sense. Most of them, I think, found it charming and quaint. They appreciated. I think there's a level of hospitality. I know that's a cliche, but I think that came up a number of times with students and a sort of level of politeness that they seem to appreciate. The young woman we spoke to said that the pace of life is slower in South Carolina than when she grew up in Long Island. And when she goes to the grocery store, she has to sort of slow herself down, especially after she's just returned from New York, and enjoy the experience of shopping and talking to the cashier and the other customers. That it's just not as fast, but she likes that.

Jonathan Hill (5:51)

Okay, So I know in a perfect world, students are thinking of academics when they pick schools, but I gotta admit, I picked Howard. And part of the reason was I saw a lot of movies with HBCUs, and it looked like a lot of fun. How much is this change driven by campus culture? You know, these are schools where college football is big and there's a big, robust Greek life. Is that a factor at all?

Doug Belkin (6:16)

Huge factor. Probably the biggest factor. Right? So football Saturdays. All the kids we interviewed for this story last year were all talking about how football is a religion in the South. The Saturdays, you know, everybody's. Everything sort of stops like the Sabbath, and people go to these camp. And that's what's happening. And that's all that's happening. And that generates a sense of community that's powerful and positive. College football is a recruiting tactic. I mean, that's what it is. People look at it as a sport, and it is, but it's a huge commercial for the. For the university. Who doesn't want to go to a school where everybody's screaming and yelling and full of school spirit? So that's the starting point, I think, that, you know, college football creates a virtuous circle for enrollment and marketing, and it always has. You've seen all of these sorority rush talks and these issues that are coming up around the sort of positive ends of fraternity and Greek life down there. And the schools themselves are reaching out. They've done a lot of work, and not just over the past few years, but over a decade or more, reaching out to northern kids because there's a lot of money in New Jersey and in New York and in Connecticut. And so they're smart. They go where the money is. They try to tell kids, this is what we offer. It's still gonna be cheaper. Come check us out.

Jonathan Hill (7:38)

Up next, the online trend that has students rushing down south. Mama Papa Amazon, Gasta menos Son riemas packages by Expedia.

Jonathan Hill (8:11)

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Jonathan Hill (8:26)

Hey, y'.

Doug Belkin (8:26)

All.

Jonathan Hill (8:26)

This is true Southern accent, and this is Alabama accent versus Mississippi accent. Okay, so more students from across the country are going to the south for college. And before the Break. We heard some of those reasons. Politics cost. And also maybe a hashtag.

Jonathan Hill (8:46)

I knew you wanted try it out when you walked in.

Jonathan Hill (8:49)

Hey, girlfriends. So today is day four of Alabama Rush.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (8:54)

What's my Rush bag Pack my rush bag.

Jonathan Hill (8:56)

But hey, if y' all like watching.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (8:58)

It, I'm not complaining.

Jonathan Hill (9:01)

If you've been anywhere near an algorithm at the beginning of the school year these past couple of years, there's a good chance you've encountered RushTalk.

Jonathan Hill (9:12)

It's also attracting the attention of tiktokers.

Jonathan Hill (9:14)

Around the world trying to say it's fun to be a young woman.

Jonathan Hill (9:18)

It's fun here.

Jonathan Hill (9:19)

Videos of girls trying to join sororities, often blonde, dressed to the T, and hoping to get into the house of their choice. And people are watching. On TikTok, there are over 1 million videos with the label as your official demo.

Jonathan Hill (9:33)

Rush price breakdown correspondent. We got another one. Let's get into it. You can't talk about boos, boys, beliefs, ballots and bucks. Yet each of these girls has on a $1,300 outfit.

Doug Belkin (9:43)

If you missed it, that's a Ray.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (9:46)

Rice Ravens jersey in the background of this Alabama sorority. TikTok Ray Rice.

Jonathan Hill (9:54)

Now, I'm very familiar with the South. Basically all my family is from there, but I'd never seen anything like Rush talk before. To find out where all of this comes from and why so many of us can't look away, I talked to Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd. She's the author of the book Southern Race, Ritual and Memory in the Modern South. She herself is from Mississippi. And I started our conversation asking her what makes Rush talk different down there? I mean, lots of schools have Greek life, right?

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (10:24)

Well, the Southern schools have become sort of like the Olympics of sorority rush. They're the apex. And what has happened is there has always been a large and active Greek life on most flagship Southern campuses. And the student body makeup has changed in the past 20 years. For instance, the University of Alabama, where many of these videos are originating, used to be mostly students from Alabama. There's a moment of nostalgia right now for the nation as a whole, but also for white southernness and for this sort of experience of being pampered and special, this sort of golden time of your four year college career as this moment that it's proving very attractive to out of state students. And they come down and part of what they try to do is approximate what they see as the ideal white Southern womanhood performance during rush.

Jonathan Hill (11:37)

How did we get these sororities? Like, what is the history behind them? How did they start?

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (11:42)

So sororities started because they were excluded from men's literary clubs. This whole system is about exclusion, about rising in your own status. But to do that, it's necessary to exclude other people. Well, so when they were shut out of men's literary clubs, women on some college campuses, and a couple of them started in the south, in Georgia, formed their own literary clubs. Their debates were not about politics, but they were more about social issues. And some of the same prescriptions about womanhood were upheld through these groups.

Jonathan Hill (12:22)

You write in your book that rituals like Rush are these performative symbols of the South. What history is it that they're invoking? Exactly?

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (12:33)

They are invoking the privilege of the plantation. You know, the white Southern woman was the emblem of the white south and its rationale, because she was supposed to be endangered. And this sort of, again, feeling protected and special and on a pedestal in a certain way in the contemporary milieu is attractive to many of these young women. You know, there's real emphasis in southern history with the notion of purity. And this plays out in all sorts of ways. And it's one thing that you see being evaluated by sororities is whether someone has a good reputation. So don't think that just because you can buy, you know, a boatload of David Yurman bracelets and have all the right couture that that that's enough, because it's not. And a lot of what goes on in Greek life is about attracting the right fraternities that you will be adjacent to for that sort of mating and marriage project. So I actually wrote about it on page 50 that actives the ones rushing these potential new members look for a certain look put together. Cute but conservative, at ease, attractive but not flashy, not too much makeup, not attempting to look older, not sexy, Definitely not sexy. I don't want to see anything that I shouldn't be seeing during Rush, noted one Alabama active, because what we are looking for is a lady. And that pretty much sums it up. There are traditionally white Southern sororities that will admit here and there a member, a person of color, but it's not like they're going to admit a critical mass. There's a tipping point, and those houses are meant to be for the daughters of cotton planters, not cotton pickers.

Jonathan Hill (14:57)

I want to get into that money piece as well. You know, some of the big trends for these videos are things like, you know, outfit of the day or get ready with me. And the fashion is not inexpensive. You know, these women are wearing outfits that cost thousands of dollars. Could you talk a little bit more about the role that class plays in this vision that we're getting of online? Southern womanh.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (15:23)

Well, so it's interesting because I think the people who have successfully turned themselves into influencers probably aren't paying a dime. They're getting these clothes donated to them, sent to them by these brands that want the exposure of. Of getting a million views from this Rushy putting her reels on, on TikTok. But for others, yeah, it's. That gets back to that conformity issue because it's a. It's a certain look that I just described.

Jonathan Hill (15:55)

Good morning. Today's day five of Bama Rush, Day one of sisterhood. We finally get to our dresses. My shoes are from Steve Madden.

Jonathan Hill (16:05)

My necklace is Pandora. My earrings are Cosby Dior.

Jonathan Hill (16:09)

My shoes are from Michael Kors. My dress is Anthropologie. David Yurman. David Yurman. This is from Neiman Marcus. These are from David yman. David yman. David yman.

Jonathan Hill (16:18)

E. Newton.

Jonathan Hill (16:19)

Neiman and David yman.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (16:21)

David yman.

Jonathan Hill (16:22)

I feel like I ate this one up.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (16:23)

That's. And that's where that capitalism comes in. You, you know, you have this free market of femininity, basically. People, I'm no economist, but in the economy of Rush, it's a. It is a blood sport. And even though they are smiling and acting happy and like they're your best friend, these young women are not the other young women's friends because they're all competing with each other.

Jonathan Hill (16:47)

When I did Bama Rush, I was like, I don't want my race to be too big of a factor in this. And it wasn't until one house made sure it was.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (16:54)

I don't know about you guys, but Rush week is so hard. Actives in the houses would be promoting their favorite Rushies. First, they would use posters, like poster boards all over the house with the pictures of these girls that they wanted. They were from their hometown and she's so cute and y' all are gonna lover and all of that. And then they went, of course, to slideshows, you know, the old Kodachrome click forward. And then, of course, PowerPoints. And now we. And now that's sort of no longer necessary because the girls are beaming their message directly to the sororities, for better or worse.

Jonathan Hill (17:39)

Coming up, why the south has always had something to say and why the rest of us are starting to listen.

Doug Belkin (17:53)

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Jonathan Hill (18:19)

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Jonathan Hill (18:32)

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Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (18:50)

I just talk country. I'm a Georgia peach Everywhere I go.

Jonathan Hill (18:54)

They know where I'm from. It may seem like Southern culture is newly dominant. According to Bloomberg senior reporter Amanda Mollie, it's actually been a long time in the making. But before we get into her reporting, there was one essential fact I needed to know about her. Where'd you go to college?

Jonathan Hill (19:13)

University of Georgia. Go dogs.

Jonathan Hill (19:17)

Once we got the niceties out of the way, I asked Amanda what's new about the way the south has trickled into American culture at large?

Jonathan Hill (19:25)

I think that the process of the south becoming more salient and more dominant in American culture, and especially in American pop culture, is, you know, a process of decades and decades and lots of sort of structural and legal changes both in the south and in the country at large. So the level of saturation we're at right now, I think is unique.

Jonathan Hill (19:45)

So over time, the south has grown in the American imagination. What first made that possible?

Jonathan Hill (19:53)

Well, I think in the 1960s, you see the sort of like twin occurrence of political evolution and logistical evolution, technological evolution. The political aspect is, of course, the civil rights movement and the Civil Rights act, which ended Jim Crow in the South. And then you also have the practical shift, which is air conditioning. So in 1956, you get sort of the advent of the American highway program, which builds interstates that connect places and parts of the country that were previously difficult to travel between. And that really helps the South. The south was sort of like industrially underdeveloped relative to the Northeast and the Midwest. So the advent of the highway system made it a lot easier for the south to interact commercially with the rest of the country, made it a lot easier for the south to interact commercially with itself. And the end of Jim Crow and the advent of air conditioning made it more possible for lots of different types of businesses to think about the south as a possible location, made it possible for more people to think about the south as a place that they might want to live. This change across time that has led us to where we are now, where the population of the south has been growing for decades and is still growing.

Jonathan Hill (21:16)

Okay, so another thing is that Southern states started offering advantages to businesses. What are those advantages and how have they changed the culture down there?

Jonathan Hill (21:28)

You see these state governments across the south, and this is especially true in Florida, Texas, Georgia, the states in the south that already had significant population in significant cities. You see state government start putting together tax rebate packages, incentive packages, where they pitch themselves both to the business community at large and to specific employers. One way you can really see this happening is Southern states pitching themselves as a union, unfriendly alternative for car manufacturing. So you see that especially happening with Southern states attracting foreign car manufacturers, avoiding paying the higher wages, and offering the better working conditions of the Midwest and Northeast, which had been traditionally areas of car manufacturing.

Jonathan Hill (22:21)

Could you talk about the movie business as well? I feel like every time I watch a show or movie, there's that thing at the end where it's like, Made in Georgia.

Jonathan Hill (22:29)

Yeah, this is the car business and the movie business are both great examples of how this similar playbook works, sort of like across industries. Netflix has a huge complex in Atlanta. A lot of Marvel movies over the past decade have been filmed in Georgia. So they pitch themselves basically as locations where you have a lot of different, like, outdoor landscapes in those states that can stand in for a lot of different places. You have the opportunity to move to those places to get the tax incentives, which can be millions of dollars per production. They can really change the nature of a movie or TV show's budget.

Jonathan Hill (23:05)

Yeah, I want to get into the cultural impact. So you open your piece with outkast at the 1995 Source Awards. For those who don't know, tell us that story.

Jonathan Hill (23:16)

Well, you know, 1995 was a fascinating year in hip hop because you were in the middle of the east coast, west coast conflict, and things were just tense. And when Outkast won the award and got up, people were booing, people were upset. And then Andre gets on the mic and goes, close minded, folks, you know what I'm saying?

Jonathan Hill (23:41)

It's like, we got a demo tape.

Doug Belkin (23:42)

And don't nobody want to hear.

Jonathan Hill (23:43)

But it's like this.

Doug Belkin (23:43)

The south got something to say. That's all I got to say.

Jonathan Hill (23:47)

What I call in my piece the greatest called shot since Babe Ruth. And he couldn't have been more correct. And this, in my mind is sort of the cultural story about America had already started to shift a little bit toward the south at that point because of the sort of rising importance of hip hop in the country's pop culture. Really had an opportunity to stake a claim for themselves. And that's what Andre did. And he couldn't have been more correct. You had this huge explosion in southern artists, not just from Atlanta, but from Virginia beach to Houston, basically all across the south, sort of changing the face of American music. You know, I think some people forget this, but when Justin Bieber got. Who was Canadian, got discovered on YouTube, he moved to Atlanta because to work with Ushers people. So, you know, black musicians across the south had such a huge impact on, like, decades and decades of American pop culture.

Jonathan Hill (24:46)

I'm interested in knowing more about how the south has impacted music. I mean, you know, we have southern hip hop. I just think of the impact of Gucci mane a lot. But also country is a hugely popular genre right now. How has the south impacted mainstream American music? You know, since. Since that time, the rise of southern.

Jonathan Hill (25:11)

Hip hop and the subsequent rise of country are sort of two sides of the same coin. I don't want to say that, like, the sort of embrace of country is entirely reactionary, because I don't think it totally is. But I do think that some of the interest in, like, explicitly white southern culture that has happened in the past few years is a reaction to the sort of omnipresence of black creativity and black southern creativity in creative spaces and especially in music, I think that, you know, when you look at someone like Morgan Wallen, who is enormously, enormously popular among listeners and has also been in the news for doing explicitly racist things.

Jonathan Hill (25:56)

So in this video that TMZ obtained, you can hear Wallen using the N.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (25:59)

Word on ring doorbell video from a neighbor song.

Doug Belkin (26:02)

CMT Country Music television has just removed the new video from one of its biggest stars.

Elizabeth Bronwyn Boyd (26:07)

Jason Aldean's song Try that in a.

Jonathan Hill (26:10)

Small town raised eyebrows months ago for lyrics that critics described as evocative of racism and retaliation. And then you also see some of the biggest pop stars in the world. Beyonce, obviously, sort of, yes, with Cowboy Carter, sort of re embracing her heritage as a southerner and sort of questioning some of the tropes and the aesthetics and the sounds of white southern music.

Jonathan Hill (26:38)

Baby, let me rattle that snake with my venom Denim on denim on denim.

Jonathan Hill (26:41)

Which is, of course, there's no real such thing as white Southern music. It's very hard to look at the south and go, okay, this is white Southern culture and this is black Southern culture because there are just so many cultural overlaps over time.

Jonathan Hill (26:55)

How does this, you know, new embrace of the south make you feel as a Southerner?

Jonathan Hill (26:59)

You know, I'm sort of of two minds about it because I think that it's good for all Southerners if people are more interested in the South. I think that it's good for, like, Southerners of all stripes, of all races, of all backgrounds if people look at the south more as a legitimate part of the country and less as, like, sort of a backwater where people are sort of like subhuman and inferior. It's also just strange. It's really uncanny to see people sort of embrace the aesthetics of the south without, like, really contending with what the south is and what it has been and what it means at all. Because I think that, like, I think that most Southerners do that. Like, they. Some of them might come to conclusions that I don't agree with. But, like, I think that being from the south requires you to interface with the region's history in a way that like. Like, the rest of the country sort of gets to skip if they so choose. So it's weird to see people sort of cosplaying as sort of, like, stereotypical Southerners in certain ways when I know that, like, a lot of them have not really thought about it.

Jonathan Hill (28:10)

That's Bloomberg's Amanda Mole. We need some help from you next week. We're talking about horror films. They're doing great at the box office right now. If you like scary movies, tell us why. And tell us your favorite. Don't be scared. Give us a call at 1-800-618-8545. This episode was produced by Denise Guerra. It was edited by our executive producer Miranda Kennedy, with fact checking by Louisiana's own Melissa Hirsch. Engineering by Matthew Billy and Adrian Lilly. I'm your host, Jonathan Hill. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you soon.

Jonathan Hill (28:45)

Soon.

Jonathan Hill (28:46)

Bye.