Noel King (2:23)

I think it counts. I think it counts. All right, so we're here today. We're gonna be talking about Iran, Israel and the future of the America first and MAGA movement. Let's start here. I'VE been listening to a lot of your show, watching a lot of your show. You don't think that the US should be at war with Iran? Why not?

Tucker Carlson (2:44)

Well, I haven't heard a consistent case from anyone. And I would say it's not just the Trump administration. In fact, I don't. I mean, my strong sense, having watched it closely, is that there was not a groundswell of support from this war from within the Trump administration. The president made the to do it, but he wasn't surrounded by advisors who were urging him to do it. Just the opposite. I don't think there was any enthusiasm for it.

Noel King (3:05)

So why are we in this?

Tucker Carlson (3:05)

He did it as we're in it, as the Secretary of State explained, because we were pushed into it by the Netanyahu government, by Benjamin Netanyahu. Now, by the way, to be totally clear, that's not a way of exculpating the president. He's the commander in chief of the US Military. So he makes the decision. Trump made the decision. It was the wrong decision. But if you're asking why did he make that decision, it's because he was pushed into it by Benjamin Netanyahu. Which raises the second obvious question, which is where did Netanyahu get the power as the prime minister of a country of 9 million to force the President of a country of 350 million to do his bidding? And I can't answer that question, but I can just tell you what happened, because the Secretary of State said it and the speaker of the House said it, and I watched it. And what happened was the Israelis went to the White House, Netanyahu went to Trump and said, we're going to do this. We're going to move against Iran. And at that point, the US had really only two choices. One is to follow, and the other is to tell Israel no and force them not to do it. Because as Marco Rubio explained on camera, if you allowed Israel to go alone, you were certain that American forces and citizens and interests in the Gulf would be destroyed. But either way, Benjamin Netanyahu made the decision on the timing of this. I'm going now. And we followed. So that's another way of saying he was in charge. And I'm just here to say I think it's wrong, and I think the majority of Americans think it's wrong.

Noel King (4:39)

President Trump has been talking about Iran since the late 1980s himself. A Guardian interview recently resurfaced. This is from 1988. And he's asked, if you were a politician, what will your platform be? He Says I'd be harsh on Iran. They've been beating us psychologically, making us look like a bunch of fools. One bullet shot at one of our men or ships, and I'd do a number on Carg Island. This sounds a lot like the way he is talking, literally in the last 24 hours about doing a number on Carg Island. You're aware of that. Donald Trump is the President of the United States. Can't this war just be what he wants? Why does it have to be that? He's being led by the nose here. Isn't that denying him agency?

Tucker Carlson (5:23)

I'm not denying him agency. I stated his agency, which is a matter of fact, not opinion. He's the commander in chief. He gives the orders. So that happened. Donald Trump made the decision. It is also true that Israel forced that decision. That's what happened. As for Trump's antipathy toward Iran, of course, widely documented. Iran can't have a nuke. They're not on our side. We're against Iran. They're bad. They're evil. So it's not a question of, did Donald Trump hate Iran or love Iran and now hates Iran? No, he's been consistent on that. The question is whether a regime change war against a country of almost 100 million people on the Persian Gulf was achievable. A, B, a good idea for the United States and C, a good idea for the world. And Trump has said consistently, no, it's a terrible idea. He's been really specific about a regime change, war in Iran is a bad idea. So this is the change. It's not that, you know, he woke up one morning, was mad at Iran. It's what do you do about it? Is the question.

Noel King (6:24)

It is worth asking, as you've done rhetorically, what do people understand and what don't they understand? So President Trump's platform in 2024, America first, this is the thing that helped him get elected, contained a promise, which is no more wars. Recent polling shows that something like 85 to 92% of MAGA Republicans support this war. That seems like a real contradiction. Is the idea of America first just not as compelling to MAGA Republicans as you assumed?

Tucker Carlson (7:01)

I mean, it's really a commentary on the nature of public opinion polling and the people who analyze and repeat it, which is very, very low. Just, we're getting to, like, dangerously low IQ levels here among the pollsters or

Noel King (7:15)

the people responding to the.

Tucker Carlson (7:17)

The people who take them seriously. Think about what that measures.

Noel King (7:21)

Me.

Tucker Carlson (7:22)

No, not you. Not you. But this is a. This is A propaganda tool, and people are not figuring. So what's a MAGA voter? A MAGA voter is someone who is all in on Donald Trump and the decisions he makes. So that means that the question. If you ask people who approve of everything Donald Trump does, do you approve of something he just did? You're probably gonna get a pretty high number. It'd be like polling white people on the question of how many are white, probably be a pretty high number. The actual poll you need to do is people who voted for Donald Trump in 2024. What percentage of those support this? Do you see what I'm saying? So you could narrow down the sample to a point where you're assured the outcome. If you only pull people who agree with someone, no matter what he does, they're going to agree with what he did.

Noel King (8:09)

Not long after the US Took Nicolas Maduro into custody in Venezuela, you did a monologue and you said that the US And Empire needs serious men to run it. People who are wise and understand stakes. Not flighty, silly, emotionally incontinent people. So in light of the way that this war was launched, given the lack of coherent messaging, as you've described it, the apparent lack of a plan to get out of Iran, do you think we have serious men making wise decisions in the White House?

Tucker Carlson (8:40)

Well, we're not. I mean, we're not seeing wise decisions, obviously. I mean, I think Venezuela, I think the war in Ukraine. I mean, I think all of these build on one. On each other. But I think that the Venezuela operation set us up for what happened in Iran. I mean, clearly it did because it sent the message that you can achieve regime change at almost no cost. And as we're learning, five weeks in, that's not possible in Iran, and the consequences are potentially catastrophic. I mean, I don't think anyone who's paying close attention has slept well for the last month. I would love to be able to say, okay, we made our point and we, you know, killed their religious leader, and somehow that's virtuous, I guess, and this is victory and we're leaving. I mean, as an American, I would like to see that, because I want to get out of this with as little damage as possible. But I don't see how you can do that without leaving Iran stronger than it was in real terms. Stronger than it was. Oh, they have no navy, they have no air force. Okay, but they control 20% of the world's energy. How does that not make them stronger than they were in February? Well, it does. So anyway, it's A mess.

Noel King (9:55)

Who are the serious men?

Tucker Carlson (9:59)

Well, you know, you find out in moments like this. I mean, who can think clearly, who can accept unhappy truths, digest them and make wise decisions on the basis of them, or who retreats into fantasy?

Noel King (10:13)

Who are you seeing do that? The former in the White House, in the administration.

Tucker Carlson (10:20)

Oh, you don't have Internet access? Oh, deal with reality. You know, I don't know. I've been, I've been, I've been denounced, so I'm not, I, you know, I went to see the President three times in the month before this, you know, in person, and, and made the, the case basically not too different from the case I've just made to you. And in the end it had no effect. So I tried, but I haven't been in touch with the President since then. I don't know. But I do think that there are people. I know that there are people in the White House who may disagree with me on all kinds of issues, but they want to do the best for the country. They're not crazy. Then I'm sure that they are giving, I hope they are giving good advice. But the question at this point is how do you get out of this? It's not easy. This just happened in 2003. I was there both in Washington and in Iraq in the aftermath. And it shocks me that we are doing this thing again, particularly under a president who understood exactly what happened in 2003, campaigned all three elections against doing an Iraq war again, cuz it was stupid. He was the only Republican to campaign against the Iraq war. It's why he won the nomination, in my opinion, in 2016. It's amazing to me that that president who knew and said he knew again and again and again that this was wrong, that he just did the same thing.

Noel King (11:58)

Tucker Carlson when we come back, we're going to ask him, do young conservatives have a Nazi problem?

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Noel King (13:41)

Sean Ramastrom, let me ask you a question. Which journalistic endeavors do you pay money to support?

Podcast Announcer / Sponsor Voice (13:47)

Oh my gosh. Which or like how many? Let me think. That one and that one and that one. A bunch of public radio stations, a big newspaper that I can think of some subset. So many newsletters, I don't know if they're substacks. But like, I was trying to count the other day because someone asked me and I think it's like six newsletters at least. Dang, Like a lot. How about you? Are you in a. Are you in the newsletter camp too?

Noel King (14:09)

All of that. Not so much newsletters. A lot of podcasts on Patreon.

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Heck yeah.

Noel King (14:15)

Which reminds me.

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Noel King (14:39)

And thank you. We're back. Tucker Carlson says he sees the Trump coalition splintering. He blames neocons, the people, he says, who'd rather go to war in Iran than fix American cities. You're nodding at something very important here, which is that even before the war in Iran, even before the events of the last 30 or so days, the Trump coalition was splintering in part because of Israel. And we know that there is fierce debate over what constitutes legitimate criticism of Israel and what is just outright antisemitism. How do you make the distinction between legitimate criticism and. And antisemitism?

Tucker Carlson (15:24)

Well, I mean, on the same basis. I'm a little confused by the question. I don't know what legitimate criticism is. I mean, anything that is true is legitimate by its nature. So if it's true, it's legitimate. True things are legitimate. Untrue things are illegitimate. And so any true criticism of Israel or the United States or of me or you is legitimate. Now, whether it's polite or useful is another question. But the question, whether or not it's moral or immoral, virtuous or not, hangs only on the question of whether it's true.

Noel King (15:57)

I want to ask you about someone anti Semitic that you had on your show. So you interviewed Nick Fuentes a while back, and you didn't really push him at points where it seems like you should push him. For example, he talked about organized Jewry. Nick Fuentes is very proud of his beliefs. Holocaust denialism, et cetera, et cetera. I do wonder, why open the door to Nick Fuentes on your show? Why invite him on and then not go after him hard?

Tucker Carlson (16:30)

Well, I did. You obviously didn't watch the interview in its entirety. I did. Well, then your comprehension may be low. Okay, so I said what I think that I think antisemitism is wrong, and I think it's unwise to do that. But I also think it's immoral to do that. It's anti Christian to do that. I also had some other views that I gave him, but I didn't make Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes was bigger than I am among young people. I think Vox should ask itself. Well, it was important. That's why I did it. But I also think people who think that I should have asked other questions are happy to, you know, welcome, of course, to. I've got his cell. I can give it to you. You can go interview him and ask the questions that you think he should be asked and see how you do. But what I wanted was. And Piers Morgan tried that, and you should watch that interview, too, which is pretty, pretty revealing. So Piers went in there because all journalists, of course, are their real audiences. They're fellow journalists, and they're trying to prove that they're good people. And I don't care whether people think I'm a good person or not. So he goes in there and he's like, I can't believe you denied the Holocaust. And Nick Fuentes looks at him and goes, too soon. Which basically crushes. So basically, all of a sudden you have like a legitimate thing which is like, hey, this is my position. Hitler killed all these Jews. Don't make fun of that. That's like, pretty awful thing to make fun of. That's how I personally feel. Don't make fun of people's murder. Right. Got turned it from that to here's. The boomer coming in and lecturing a kid who's like, way more agile and hip and smarter and getting just owned by him. And the net effect is to make the Holocaust a joke. And everybody under 30 knows that. So who wins? Nick Fuentes.

Noel King (18:18)

Does this concern you? Some of the things that you see young conservatives articulating, does it worry you that, well, this part of the Trump coalition is headed someplace dark?

Tucker Carlson (18:33)

Well, these people are more anti Trump than you are, so they're not part of the Trump coalition. I wouldn't say they're conservative. I don't even know what that means anymore. I've always thought of myself as conservative. I don't even know what that means. I can think of very few things I agree with. Ben Shapiro won. He's a conservative. He's a conservative. What is that? I don't even know what that means.

Noel King (18:57)

Okay, Are you worried about young people? Are you worried about the way.

Tucker Carlson (19:00)

Yeah, yeah, I'm worried about young white men who've been attacked for being white men. And no one ever rose to their defense, was like, I can't believe, you know, everyone's like, oh, anti Semitism is bad. Yeah, it definitely is bad. What about all the anti white stuff? That Vox and the New York Times, the Washington Post was casually like, oh, white men, what would it feel to be a white man? How does it feel to be a Jew now that everyone's attacking Jews? Well, it's bad, right? No one wants that. Well, what do you think of the young white men who've been attacked for like the past 25 years?

Noel King (19:28)

What concerns you? What concerns you about the way that young conservatives are talking now?

Tucker Carlson (19:34)

That the country could take a group of people and on the basis of qualities they can't control that they were born with, attack them in public? And nobody said anything about it. Where was everyone else when that was happening to white men? They were silent, they enjoyed it, they joined in. So shame on them. Cuz that's immoral. And I feel sorry for young white men because their lives have been very much affected by this. They're the victims of it. Sorry, they are. And some of them have become really radical and they're like, hey, up yours. I'm gonna become a Nazi. Which I'm against. I'm against Nazis. Okay, but what did you think was gonna happen? So stop attacking people for their race and maybe things will calm down a little bit. Like that is the lesson. I thought that was the lesson of the civil rights movement, but we just ignored that lesson.

Noel King (20:21)

I want to ask you what your concern is about Nick Fuentes and the like. Right. So you expressed you are concerned that he goes on Piers Morgan's show and makes a joke about the Holocaust and makes Piers Morgan look stupid and makes the Holocaust look like a joke. And we know from various leaked group chats and other things that there is a strain of this in young conservative America. Right. These sort of the based ritual, I think Richard Hanania calls it, the jokes that you shouldn't make. And, you know, you shouldn't make the joke, but you make it anyway. And the question is, where do you think that leads? Right. Like what is.

Tucker Carlson (20:59)

Well, I'd hate to see it. Here's my concern that it might lead to a place where the federal government, the largest institution in human history, and other major institutions in this country, like our banks or tech companies or, I don't know, big, prestigious universities, might weight their admission standards in favor of some racial groups and against other racial groups. That would be kind of what the Nazis did. It'd be what was happening in the Jim Crow South. And, oh, they're already doing that. But you're not saying anything about it. And so the goal here is to stop punishing people on the basis of their race. The goal is, yeah, bad jokes about the Holocaust. I don't tell Holocaust jokes. It's depressing that all those people got murdered. I'm not probably not going to joke about it. I'm not going to joke about Gaza or dead babies or. I don't like joking about grim stuff like that. Okay, got it. But you're saying this could lead somewhere. We're already there. This country is discriminating against people systematically on the basis of the race. And the Trump administration has not ended it. So that right there is a, is a disgraceful stain on this country and

Noel King (22:12)

it should end up. Come on, you've been doing this. You've been doing this a long time. You have the ability to look five years into the future, just five years into the future. These young conservatives, former members of the Trump coalition, who are making jokes about the Holocaust and rape and slavery in private group chats. Where do you think this is heading? I hear you looking back. I do. And I hear you saying, this is

Tucker Carlson (22:40)

how we got here. I'm not looking back.

Noel King (22:41)

This is how we got here.

Tucker Carlson (22:42)

No, no, no, I'm not. I don't mean to do that at all. I'm looking at where we are right now, and I'm saying that we have a system in place currently that discriminates officially you can look up the standards, if you like, against people on the basis of their race. I think most people would say, yeah, you can't punish people because of their race, because they can't control their race. Right. It's not a decision they made. But no one says that. You'll never hear anybody say. In fact, anyone who says that is denounced as a white su.

Noel King (23:09)

You say it all the time.

Tucker Carlson (23:10)

I'm kind of alone in that, actually.

Noel King (23:11)

You just said it for 10 minutes.

Tucker Carlson (23:14)

Right. But it's the key to what I'm saying. So if you're offended that some people are mocking another group on the basis of their race, which you'll never. My texts have been leaked and showed. I'm not texting racial jokes ever. I don't tell them.

Noel King (23:29)

I don't offended. I think you're looking for offense. And what I'm asking is, is there concern in there, too?

Tucker Carlson (23:38)

I'm concerned by the current state of where we are now. Like the kids who are watching live streams of Nick Fuentes and texting Holocaust jokes. Yeah, bad. I told Nick Fontes bad. But the people currently running our country are punishing people on the basis of their race, which is much worse because it's not joking. It's like structurally punitive measures against people for how they were born.

Noel King (24:08)

I think what a lot of people are trying to do here, this is my guess, is they're trying to project where this ugly stuff lands US in 2028, in 2032, like what the next five or ten years look like. Let me ask you this, because, again, I want to sort of keep this on young people, if I could. We know that many America first voters, especially young ones, feel very betrayed by the war in Iran, very betrayed by President Trump. They're very angry about this. What should they do now?

Tucker Carlson (24:47)

It's a good question. So my sense from having a lot of young people in my house and knowing a lot of and will work for me is that economic concerns override all other concerns right now for young people. That is my strong sense. Just from I've got some sitting in my studio right now. It's like, we can't buy houses. Everything's too expensive. How can I live an adult life at these prices? The baby boomers are hoarding all the assets. I mean, I think those are much more imminent concerns than anything related to foreign policy. I do think they're connected to each other in ways that maybe other people don't see or agree with, but I think they are. I think that our leaders are just so focused on the rest of the world, they don't really care. They're, like, lecturing you about the Iranian nuclear threat, which wasn't real or wasn't imminent anyway, and they're ignoring the fact that, like, their kids can't buy a house. And so I think you're going to have, like, a pretty volatile mix socially in this country and someone needs to deal with the economics first. That, I mean, since you asked,

Noel King (25:51)

you sound. You sound like a candidate. Sounds a little bit like a platform.

Tucker Carlson (25:56)

Are you running for president in 2020? Not. I wouldn't know. Absolutely not. Well, I don't want to. I mean, you want to be president, United States. I mean, I have a ton of ideas, but. But they're just ideas. I've never run anything. I'm not a politician at all. I'm a. I can't even remember what's called a podcaster now. But I'm worried. I'm definitely worried. I feel like this war. War always accelerates trends in progress and creates massive social change. And I feel like the country is already kind of unstable, mostly because of economic changes that have taken place. And I'm worried, but I'm not. No, I'm not running for anything. I mean, would you run for something? I mean, it sounds awful.

Noel King (26:39)

Tucker Carlson, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it.

Tucker Carlson (26:41)

I appreciate it. Thank you.

Noel King (26:48)

Today's team. Ariana espudu, jolie myers, patrick boyd, andrea lopez crusado and gabriel donatoff. Hi, I'm noel king. It's today explained.

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