Vatever you vant, Vladimir

Summary

Today, Explained: "Vatever you vant, Vladimir" – Detailed Summary

Episode Overview In the February 20, 2025 episode of Today, Explained titled "Vatever you vant, Vladimir," hosts Sean Ramaswamy and Noel King delve into the shifting dynamics of U.S.-Russia relations under the Trump administration. Central to the discussion is the controversial appointment of Tulsi Gabbard as the Director of U.S. Intelligence, her alleged sympathies towards Russia, and the broader implications for the ongoing war in Ukraine.

---

1. Changing U.S.-Russia Relations Under Trump

Introduction to the New Normal

Sean Ramaswamy opens the episode by highlighting a significant shift in U.S. foreign policy:

“[00:00] Sean Ramaswamy: ...the United States being on Ukraine's side of this war. On Today Explained we're getting used to this new normal being BFFs with Russia.”

He references President Trump's recent phone call with Vladimir Putin, noting the exclusion of Ukraine from the dialogue and Trump's subsequent statements blaming Ukraine for Russia's invasion:

“[00:00] ...Trump blamed Ukraine for being invaded by Russia. And then ... he called Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a dictator without elections.”

This sets the stage for discussing the unexpected rapprochement between the U.S. and Russia, breaking away from traditional alliances.

---

2. Tulsi Gabbard's Appointment as Director of U.S. Intelligence

A Controversial Choice

The episode shifts focus to Tulsi Gabbard's appointment:

“[01:56] Sean Ramaswamy: ...our top spy in the United States has a soft spot for Vladimir Putin.”

Matthew Luxmore introduces concerns about Gabbard's qualifications and potential biases:

“[01:56] ...some people sincerely believe she's a straight up Russian operative.”

Background and Allegations

Gabbard's history is scrutinized, emphasizing allegations of her being a Russia sympathizer:

“[02:16] Matthew Luxmore: That is a charge that's been leveled against her.”

Her legal actions against Hillary Clinton and statements suggesting Ukrainian provocations against Russia are highlighted:

“[02:20] Tulsi Gabbard: ...try to smear my character.”

“[02:45] Tulsi Gabbard: ...some of these European NATO countries are fueling this war.”

---

3. Tulsi Gabbard's Political Trajectory and Background

From Hawaii Politics to the Intelligence Community

Matthew Luxmore provides an in-depth look into Gabbard's past:

“[03:52] ...raised in Hawaii by parents involved in a religious community derived from Hare Krishna.”

Her early political involvement included protesting against the establishment of gay marriage rights, aligning with her later shift towards conservative politics:

“[05:04] ...protesting against the establishment of gay marriage rights in Hawaii.”

Gabbard's military service post-9/11 and her transformative experiences in Iraq are discussed, shaping her views on American power and foreign policy:

“[05:32] Tulsi Gabbard: ...only sending them on missions that are worthy of their sacrifice.”

Political Shifts and Alignment with Trump

Her departure from the Democratic Party and eventual alignment with Donald Trump are chronicled:

“[08:15] ...Trump, I think, is attracted to her leadership and why she's aligned with Donald Trump's agenda...”

Gabbard's endorsement of Trump and subsequent switch to the Republican Party are pivotal moments leading to her intelligence director appointment:

“[09:08] Tulsi Gabbard: I'm proud to stand here with you today, President Trump, and announce that I'm joining the Republican Party.”

---

4. Implications for U.S. Foreign Policy and Intelligence

Reform and Retaliation within Intelligence

Sean Ramaswamy introduces Steve Call from The Economist to analyze the potential shifts:

“[03:43] Sean Ramaswamy: ...how that might shift the course of U.S. foreign policy.”

Gabbard's mandate includes implementing executive orders aimed at purging disloyal elements within the intelligence community:

“[10:42] Tulsi Gabbard: ...you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.”

This indicates a possible overhaul of existing intelligence frameworks, aligning them more closely with Trump's strategic interests.

Role in the Ukraine War

The episode examines how Gabbard's leadership may influence U.S. strategy in the Ukraine conflict:

“[12:17] Matthew Luxmore: ...she was aligned with President Trump's assessments of Putin as someone he could do business with.”

Her stance suggests a pivot away from unequivocal support for Ukraine, potentially seeking a détente with Russia.

---

5. The Ukraine War and U.S. Policy Shifts

Trump Administration's Approach

Pete Hegseth discusses the Trump administration's efforts to negotiate directly with Russia, sidelining traditional allies:

“[17:10] ...bringing the Kremlin leader in from the cold after three years of isolation by Biden's administration.”

The proposed meeting in Saudi Arabia raises eyebrows among European allies and Ukrainian officials, highlighting a lack of a clear peace strategy:

“[18:25] Pete Hegseth: ...Ukraine until recently was saying that it's going to regain at least a large part of the land that it lost.”

European and Ukrainian Reactions

The episode captures the tension and uncertainty among European nations and Ukraine regarding the U.S.'s new diplomatic direction:

“[20:51] Matthew Luxmore: France is not preparing to send ground troops as belligerents in a conflict to the front line.”

Zelenskyy's skepticism towards Trump's motives underscores the fraught nature of these policy shifts:

“[23:07] Tulsi Gabbard: ...the US Side deserves to have something back and it will give no more, as Trump puts it, aid for nothing to Ukraine.”

---

6. On-the-Ground Sentiments in Ukraine

Tensions and Uncertainty in Kyiv

Pete Hegseth provides insights from Kyiv, capturing the local populace's mixed emotions:

“[25:18] ...a mixture between defiance, resignation, caution over what this all means.”

Zelenskyy's recent silence in video addresses hints at underlying frustrations and growing instability:

“[25:08] ...Zelenskyy does appear to be flustered and frustrated because I think he's struggling to understand how to respond to this whole situation.”

---

7. Conclusion: A New Chapter in U.S.-Russia Relations

The episode wraps up by emphasizing the unprecedented nature of Tulsi Gabbard's appointment and its potential to redefine U.S. intelligence and foreign policy. The alignment with Trump’s pro-Russia stance marks a significant departure from previous administrations, raising concerns among traditional allies and within the intelligence community.

“[26:20] Sean Ramaswamy: ...the rest of the team ... mixed. We use music by Breakmaster Cylinder.”

---

Notable Quotes

• Sean Ramaswamy [00:00]:

  "Today Explained we're getting used to this new normal being BFFs with Russia."

• Tulsi Gabbard [02:45]:

  "The United States and some of these European NATO countries are fueling this war."

• Tulsi Gabbard [05:32]:

  "I enlisted in the army because of the horrific terrorist attack on September 11th and volunteered to deploy to Iraq in 2005."

• Tulsi Gabbard [09:08]:

  "I'm proud to stand here with you today, President Trump, and announce that I'm joining the Republican Party."

• Pete Hegseth [17:59]:

  "We expect that he'll come here and I'll go there."

• Tulsi Gabbard [10:42]:

  "You take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Today, Explained sheds light on a transformative period in U.S. foreign policy, marked by controversial appointments and shifting alliances. Tulsi Gabbard's role as Director of U.S. Intelligence, coupled with Trump's direct engagement with Putin, suggests a reorientation of strategies concerning Russia and the Ukraine conflict. The long-term repercussions of these moves remain to be seen, with significant implications for international relations and global stability.

Transcript

[Sean Ramaswamy]

All right, it's officially been a month now. And to his credit, President Trump waited almost an entire month before doing a 180 on US Russia relations. Trump had a nice long phone call with Vladimir Putin about a week ago. Ukraine was not invited. My call was perfect. And then on Tuesday, Trump blamed Ukraine for being invaded by Russia. And then to top it off, on on Truth Social yesterday, he called Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a dictator without elections. Shortly thereafter, on that same website, Trump called himself a king. Totally cool, normal stuff. But you might be old enough to remember the United States being on Ukraine's side of this war. On Today explained we're getting used to this new normal being BFFs with Russia. And we're gonna start with the person Trump has put in charge of US Intelligence, a Russia sympathizer with no intelligence experience to speak of named Tulsi Gabbard.

[Kara Swisher]

You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook meat. Factor your loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef crafted meals delivered with a tap, ready in just two minutes. You know what's even smarter? Treating yourself without cheating your goals. Factor is dietitian approved, chef prepared, and you plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with factor. Learn more@Factor Meals.com what's up, besties?

[Matthew Luxmore]

On this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, I'm sitting down with Lexi Alford, AKA Lexi Limitless, the youngest person to have been to every single country in the world. We chatted about how she turned her passion for travel into breaking a world record and transforming that momentum into a seven figure business. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts or watch on the your rich BFF YouTube channel.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

This is Today Explained. Vladimir Putin got his start as a spy, and now our top spy in the United States has a soft spot for Vladimir Putin. In fact, some people sincerely believe she's a straight up Russian operative.

[Matthew Luxmore]

That is a charge that's been leveled against her.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

She's a favorite of the Russians.

[Matthew Luxmore]

She once sued Hillary Clinton for $50 million for saying something along those lines.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I will not stand quietly by as Hillary Clinton or anyone else tries to smear my character.

[Matthew Luxmore]

I think that goes too far. But she has expressed sympathy for Putin's dilemma.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

You hear President Biden say, well, this is Putin's war. This is Putin's fault. It's. It's Putin. Who's. Who's. Who's the one who's solely Responsible? Well, the United States and some of these European NATO countries are fueling this war.

[Matthew Luxmore]

And for dictators like Bashar al Assad, the former dictator of Syria.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Do you think Assad is our enemy? Assad is not the enemy of the United States because the united Syria does not pose a direct threat to the United States.

[Matthew Luxmore]

She has called for a pardon for Edward Snowden, the whistleblower who exposed illegal surveillance of Americans.

[Pete Hegseth]

You've celebrated Snowden as, quote, brave whistleblower.

[Matthew Luxmore]

So she sounds more like a progressive politician sometimes than a establishment spy chief. And I think she would say that's kind of the point. We need a different perspective on top of the American intelligence system.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Steve Call is a senior editor at what I'm told is a leading magazine, the Economist, and he's here to help you understand who's just been put in charge of U.S. intelligence and how that might shift the course of U.S. foreign policy.

[Matthew Luxmore]

Well, she grew up in Hawaii in somewhat unusual circumstances. Her parents were members of a religious community called the Science of Identity foundation, which was derived from the Hare Krishna branch of sort of meditation and yoga teaching. And the community that her parents belonged to and that she had considerable exposure to as a child was led by a charismatic guru named Chris Butler, who was a former surfer and college dropout who had lived on the streets as a Hare Krishna follower, but then started his own community. So one of Chris Butler's most adamant views in at least in the 80s and 90s was an opposition to homosexuality, which he regarded as an abomination, but also to the establishment of rights for gay and lesbian couples. And as a teenager, Tulsi Gabbard found herself on the streets of Honolulu protesting alongside her parents against the establishment of gay marriage rights in Hawaii. Don't open the door to weird marriages. Don't let homosexuals force their values on.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

The people of Hawaii.

[Andy Roddick]

Vote yes on the marriage amendment.

[Matthew Luxmore]

And it was in that time when she was very young, I think just 20 or 21 years old, that she and her father simultaneously ran for public office in Hawaii. She was elected to the state legislature, and her father was elected as a city councilman initially. So she was in politics. But she decided after 9, 11, that she wanted to join the military.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I enlisted in the army because of the horrific terrorist attack on September 11th and volunteered to deploy to Iraq in 2005, where I served in a medical unit.

[Matthew Luxmore]

And she has described this experience of war as transformational in her outlook on the American government, on American power.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I mean, it was something every day that we all experienced Firsthand the terribly high human cost of war. We have to honor our servicemen and women by only sending them on missions that are worthy of their sacrifice.

[Matthew Luxmore]

She did eventually come back to politics after establishing her military career as a part time reservist. And she found an opening, first on the Honolulu City Council, and then in 2012, a seat in Congress, one of the four that Hawaii has opened up.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I'm Tulsi Gabbard. I approve this message. I'll work to end tax loopholes, end the war in Afghanistan, now protect Medicare and Social Security.

[Matthew Luxmore]

She arrived in Washington, and Nancy Pelosi took her under her wing. She was seen as maybe the next Obama, another Hawaiian politician, a woman of color, military career, what's not to like? Good speaker, telegenic. Come on, man. And then very quickly, as these things go in Washington, it kind of started to come apart. Partly, she didn't play the game, and she started to pick fights with the leaders of her party, including Barack Obama, who she called out for not being sufficiently tough on Islamic terrorism.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Our administration refuses to recognize who our enemy is. And unless and until that happens, then it's impossible to come up with a strategy to defeat that enemy. We have to recognize that this is about radical Islam. This is a.

[Matthew Luxmore]

So by the time the 2016 presidential cycle arrived, she was starting to drift away from the party that had embraced her. What you can see by 2016 is the beginnings of what some people have called the horseshoe shape of American political populism, where the farther you go to the left, the closer you get to the MAGA right. By 2019, she's still a Democrat, and she can be critical of Donald Trump in public.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Happening right now is a very clear consequence of a command having a commander in chief who doesn't know what he's doing.

[Matthew Luxmore]

She was already part of the MAGA conversation. She knew Tucker Carlson went on his show on Fox News, and she won praise from some ardent Trump supporters in the manosphere and podcasting landscape and so forth. And so she. In 2022, she left the party to become an independent.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I can no longer remain in today' Democratic Party. It's now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness.

[Matthew Luxmore]

And in 2024, she campaigned with Donald Trump. But then she endorsed him.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I invite you to join me in doing all that we can to save our country and elect President Donald J. Trump and send him back to the White House.

[Matthew Luxmore]

And then finally, toward the end of the campaign, she announced that she was becoming A Republican.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I'm proud to stand here with you today, President Trump, and announce that I'm joining the Republican Party.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Good for her. How does she go from becoming a Republican to becoming one of the most important players in our intelligence community, if not the most important player?

[Matthew Luxmore]

Well, you know, it really is a puzzle because Donald Trump could have nominated her to be Secretary of Veterans affairs or something, and everyone would have said, oh, what an innovative choice, and she would have gotten confirmed with with no difficulty. Instead, he named her the top spy of the US System. Now, she has no experience of these bureaucracies. She has not been an intelligence analyst or a synthesizer of complicated information. Indeed, a lot of her takes over the years on the foreign policy questions that she was most interested in were a bit garbled or a bit puzzling in different ways. She sometimes aligned herself with misinformation and propaganda that was coming out of Russia or serious dictatorship. She seemed kind of an uncritical thinker. She clearly had strong policy views, but she would select facts as if she was just cruising the Internet and making her arguments out of what she found. And so it left me, initially, as I was working on her biography, kind of puzzled, like, why this job? But the answer reveals itself in her own speaking and writing and her own convictions. And she brought some of this even to her confirmation hearing.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Chuck Schumer admitted a few years ago, quote, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.

[Matthew Luxmore]

And so this is, in fact, why Donald Trump, I think, is attracted to her leadership and why she's aligned with Donald Trump's agenda in the intelligence community, which is that her first job includes carrying out two executive orders that the president signed fairly early on that basically designate the Director of National Intelligence for a period of a couple or three months to conduct a review of people who are disloyal and to take disciplinary action against them. People who had, quote, unquote, weaponized intelligence in the previous administration or who were otherwise unreliable politically. And so she's going to lead that review. And what you can say is that she's motivated to do it. She thinks there is a really deep seated problem in the intelligence communities that she will now have the power to do something about.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

So those are her first tasks from her boss. But obviously, a big part of her job will be countering U.S. adversaries. China comes to mind. Russia, historically would have come to mind. But what does putting Tulsi Gabbard in charge of our national intelligence say about where we're heading with Russia and about what Trump wants to accomplish with Russia.

[Matthew Luxmore]

Well, she never appeared to regard Vladimir Putin as an enemy of the United States. She tended to express herself indirectly about this by criticizing the democratic elites for demonizing Putin, and she would mock them for calling him the new Hitler. And she blamed NATO for provoking Putin. So in that sense, she was aligned with President Trump's assessments of Putin as someone he could do business with, as someone he should try to do business with. You know, perhaps there are people around President Trump who see grand strategy in this. They might say that U.S. policy has driven Russia and China closely together, complicating America's great power position, and that the US has to pull one of those two away and Russia is the better choice. That seems to be the hypothesis that has brought hawks and non interventionists together in this early period of the Trump administration. But for Tulsi Gabbard, I don't hear anything on the chessboard like that. I think she just has an instinct that the elites have gotten it all wrong and that Vladimir Putin has been unfairly maligned.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Steve call economist.com whatever you want, Vladimir. Ahead on TODAY Explained. Hello podcast listeners. I'm Shawn Ramstorm here from the Today Explained show, and I've got some news you can use. We're taking Vox Media podcasts on the road and heading back to Austin, Texas, for the south by Southwest Festival, March 8th through 10th. We'll be doing special live episodes of hit shows, including our show Today Explained. Where should we Begin With Esther Perel, Pivot, A Touch More with Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe, Not Just Football with Cam Hayward and more presented by Smartsheet. The Vox Media Podcast stage at SXSW is open to all south by Southwest badge holders. I'll be the guy in a Mr. T costume. We hope to see you at the Austin Convention center soon. You can visit voxmedia.com SXSW to learn more. That's voxmedia.com SXSW.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi, this is Kara Swisher, host of on with Kara Swisher. Over the past few weeks, I've been covering President Trump and Elon Musk as they continue to attack the federal government and dismantle our democracy. At least that's my opinion. I hosted a panel on Elon's takeover with Anne Applebaum, Owen Higgins and Ryan Mack. I had a conversation on the constitutional crisis we may or may not be in with Preet Bharara, George Conway, Jamie Gangel and Jonathan Kanter. And I took a look at Trumponomics with economists Oren Cass Paul Krugman and Mariana Matsucato. But life is too short to only talk politics. And honestly, politics may make our lives shorter. These days, it's important to find moments of levity, too. So I've also interviewed brilliant actors like Laverne Cox, Ben Stiller, and Cynthia Erivo. We've talked about their work and what it's like to make art in these new times and to listen to any and all of these conversations. Search for on with Kara Swisher wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to follow on with Kara Swisher for more.

[Andy Roddick]

All right, so here's the deal. Take a former world number one, that's me, Andy Roddick. Add in a journalist who knows everything about tennis and a producer who's still fig out how to spell tennis. You get served with Andy Roddick, the weekly podcast where we break down the game we all love. We cover the biggest stories, talk to the sport's biggest stars, and highlight the people changing tennis in ways you might not even realize. Whether it's Grand Slam predictions, coaching changes, off court drama, or the move shaping the future of the sport, we've got it all. This podcast is about having fun, sharing insights, and giving fans a real look at what makes tennis so great. Catch serve with Andy Roddick on Spotify, Apple podcasts, wherever you listen or watch us on YouTube, like, subscribe, follow all that good stuff. Let's get started.

[Matthew Luxmore]

I still haven't understood how can someone so beautiful be an Iraq War veteran? Ladies and gentlemen, presenting a video address.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

By Ms. Sean Ramasfirm today explained here now with Matthew Luxmore. He covers the war in Ukraine for the Wall Street Journal, a war whose end the United States wants to accelerate, with Russia the victor.

[Pete Hegseth]

It all started around a week ago, last Wednesday, when firstly, Trump's new defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, announced, quite surprisingly, that NATO membership for Ukraine is off the table.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

The United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement.

[Pete Hegseth]

He later walked back some of those comments, but it's been quite a clear line for the Trump administration ever since. And then the same day, Trump announced that he had had a phone call with Russia's President Vladimir Putin.

[Matthew Luxmore]

We had a great call and it lasted for a long time, over an.

[Pete Hegseth]

Hour, essentially bringing the Kremlin leader in from the cold after three years of isolation by Biden's administration. And then in a press conference, you know, batting away criticism from reporters, he said that the only way to fix this is to start with talks directly with Russia we ultimately expect to meet.

[Matthew Luxmore]

In fact, we expect that he'll come here and I'll go there.

[Pete Hegseth]

And he announced that a meeting would take place in Saudi Arabia between the US Side and the Russian side, which, of course, left the Europeans and the Ukrainians, most importantly, scrambling for a response, since they had thought all along that they would be key players in any negotiation over the end of this war.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

What sense do we have of what exactly the peace deal might be, the one that the Trump administration is shopping around for?

[Pete Hegseth]

Well, it's very unclear at this stage. Of course, we had this meeting between the US and the Russian side in Saudi Arabia. Trump has all along said that the war must be ended, that, you know, Ukraine is a huge killing field, many lives being lost, which is all correct. But he's driving towards a peace without really explaining how this peace would be negotiated. The main problem is that Russia's position and Ukraine's position completely don't overlap. Ukraine until recently was saying that it's going to regain at least a large part of the land that it lost. Russia was saying that it's going to keep all the territory that it's taken. And it's been calling for a complete disarmament of Ukraine and a kind of neutered, neutral version of Ukraine that is not allowed to participate in any international military coalitions and would certainly not be a member of of NATO, which is a key aspiration for Ukraine written into its constitution. So Trump, of course, is talking a good game about fixing this war. He's met with the Russian side. Ukraine says there's going to be no deal that it accepts unless it's involved directly in negotiations. So I think we're very short on the specifics at the moment. All we know at this stage is that talks have begun, and presumably Ukraine will be involved in those talks soon, when, you know, all sides come to the table. But it's very unclear whether the Europeans will be.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

And that, too, is contentious.

[Pete Hegseth]

Yes. Trump members of his team have suggested that the Europeans will not be at the table.

[Matthew Luxmore]

I said, I'm a school of realism. I think that's not going to happen.

[Pete Hegseth]

Even though, of course, it's the continent that sits closest to Ukraine that will be directly impacted by whatever peace deal is made over Ukraine. But they cannot agree on the specifics of what their version of a peace deal would be.

[Matthew Luxmore]

France is not preparing to send ground.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Troops as belligerents in a conflict to the front line.

[Matthew Luxmore]

And I'm prepared to consider committing British forces on the ground alongside others if there is A lasting peace agreement.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

It is completely premature and completely the wrong time to have this discussion. Now I'm even a little irritated by these debates, I have to say. This is highly inappropriate, to put it bluntly and honestly.

[Pete Hegseth]

And this is one of the things that Trump's team has expressed very publicly, that Europe is divided, and there is no cohesive narrative in Europe about how to end this war.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

A lot of people are upset right now because it seems like the United States is taking a rather sympathetic view towards Russia's side of this war, towards Russia's arguments around this war. Do we have any idea why that is?

[Pete Hegseth]

Well, yeah, of course, here in Europe, in Ukraine as well, people have been quite shocked by statements made by Trump on Tuesday suggesting that Ukraine had started the war.

[Matthew Luxmore]

But today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years.

[Kara Swisher]

You should have ended it. Three years, you should have never started it.

[Matthew Luxmore]

You could have made a deal, which.

[Pete Hegseth]

Of course, is not the case. Three years ago, Russia sent, you know, hundreds of thousands of troops over the border into Ukraine and tanks and armored vehicles and planes in a full scale invasion of the country. So this is obviously ruffled feathers in Ukraine. And there is very broadly a sense that the Trump administration, if it doesn't outright favor the Russian narrative on things, it seems at least to be sympathetic to it in a way that was almost impossible to expect from a US Government a year ago when Biden was in power.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Right. I mean, I think the new Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, has said that Ukraine and NATO provoked Putin into starting this war. Donald Trump has said similar things. Is the general vibe that the United States is sending to Europe, to Ukraine, to Russia, that Ukraine bears some responsibility here and thus will have to pay for it?

[Pete Hegseth]

Yeah, I mean, there's the transactional nature of Trump's approach to this conflict. Of course. There's also the statements that you reference that have been made publicly by members of his team, which to anyone in Ukraine, sound very much like the statements that Russian officials have made since the war started. So people are very, very concerned that Russia has swayed the Trump administration. And just on Wednesday, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy suggested in his most forceful statements about Trump so far, that President Trump, who.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

We have great respect for as the leader of the American people, whom we respect very much, who supports us constantly, unfortunately, lives in this disinformation space.

[Pete Hegseth]

And suggests that there should be more truth coming from the Trump administration as far as the kind of transactional nature of all this. Is concerned. The US Position is that it has sent billions of dollars in military and financial aid to back Ukraine since the war started, as have the Europeans, of course, and that the US Side deserves to have something back and it will give no more, as Trump puts it, aid for nothing to Ukraine. It wants something in exchange. And one of the things it wants in exchange is access to these so called rare earths in Ukraine, mineral resources that Ukraine has in abundance, many of which are on Russian occupied territory and very, very difficult to dig out of the ground. But it's one of the ways in which Trump is saying that Ukraine needs to pay the US Side back for the help that it's supporting in basically keeping Ukraine as a sovereign state. It's quite an incredible turnaround from the situation a year ago, Ukraine kind of scuffling with the country that has been instrumental in keeping it, you know, alive, essentially keeping it surviving over the past three years since Russia invaded.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

You're in Kiev right now when you talk to Ukrainians about what's happening here, what's the feeling on the ground?

[Pete Hegseth]

I think it's kind of a mixture between defiance, resignation, caution over what this all means. When you walk the streets of Kyiv today, I think you definitely do sense this kind of tension, this mood of experiencing a calm before the storm. And Zelenskyy, the president, he, since the beginning of the war has been recording each evening a video address to the people. And this week he's suddenly kind of stopped recording these addresses. Now, maybe this is not something that we need to read too much into, but some people, I think, almost feel like things are more unstable than they used to be and that Zelenskyy does appear to be flustered and frustrated because I think he's struggling to understand how to respond to this whole situation and Ukrainians, I think, are just as confused as he is.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Matthew Luxmore, known at Today Explained as Deluxe Matthew WSJ.com, abhishai Artsy produced Aminah Al Saadi edited Laura Bullard, fact checked Patrick Boyd and Andrea Christensdotter mixed. The rest of the team includes Hadi Mwagdi, Amanda Llewellyn, Peter Balanon, Baby Miles, Bryan, Travis Larchuk, Victoria Chamberlain, Devin Schwartz, Jolie Meyers, Miranda Kennedy, Noel King and welcome Gabrielle Burbay. Believe it or not, we use music by Breakmaster. Cylinder Today Explained is distributed by wnyc. The show is a part of Vox. Support our journalism if you will, by joining our membership program today. Go to Vox.com members to sign up and have you heard about the Logoff Newsletter. It's a Vox product that tells one story about what happened in Trump World each afternoon. So then you can just log off and forget about him for the rest of the night? Consider it. We'll be logging off in the meantime. Goodbye.