What Bill Belichick’s relationship tells us

Summary

Today, Explained: What Bill Belichick’s Relationship Tells Us

Release Date: May 30, 2025
Hosts: Sean Rameswaram & Noel King
Podcast Network: Vox Media

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Introduction to the Topic

In the May 30, 2025 episode of Today, Explained, Vox hosts Sean Rameswaram and Noel King delve into the controversial relationship between the venerable NFL coach Bill Belichick and his 24-year-old girlfriend, Jordan Hudson. This relationship has sparked widespread fascination and debate, revealing much about societal attitudes towards age disparities and gender roles.

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Bill Belichick: The Iconic Coach

Jason P. Frank, a contributor from Vulture, provides background on Bill Belichick's illustrious career:

"Bill Belichick famously was the coach of the New England Patriots. I'm not a scientist. It's football time, fellas. Let's get into it. He won eight Super Bowls."
(02:30)

Belichick's stoic persona and minimal media interaction have made him a larger-than-life figure in American sports. Known for his unconventional attire and disciplined approach, Belichick maintains a fortress-like image, often seen wearing worn-out sweatshirts and eschewing the typical flashy style of his peers.

"He refused to talk to the media. Like, he always considered media the enemy in a really, really vicious way."
(03:48)

---

The Relationship with Jordan Hudson

The crux of the episode centers on Belichick's relationship with Jordan Hudson, a 24-year-old former beauty pageant contestant and college cheerleader. Their relationship became public when Hudson, significantly younger than Belichick, appeared frequently by his side, leading to intense media scrutiny and public speculation.

Jason P. Frank explains how they met:

"They met on a plane. She was reading a college textbook. He struck up a conversation with her about that college textbook, which he was apparently really interested in. He signed the textbook."
(05:48)

This meeting sparked rumors about Hudson's influence over Belichick, especially as she began taking active roles in his public relations and business dealings, including filing for trademarks of Belichick's well-known phrases.

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Public and Media Reaction

The public's reaction has been largely negative, with many labeling Hudson as a "gold digger." This term, historically loaded with misogynistic undertones, has resurfaced in modern discourse to describe her motives.

"People seem really off put by the dynamic, but at the same time, the consensus becoming almost immediately, Jordan is definitely doing something to Bill."
(20:49)

The episode highlights a societal double standard where the younger woman is demonized while the older man often escapes similar scrutiny. This backlash is situated within a broader cultural context of regressive attitudes towards feminism and gender dynamics.

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Historical Context of "Gold Digger"

Constance Grady provides an in-depth look at the evolution of the term "gold digger":

"The phrase 'gold digger' in its original sense as just a person literally taking gold out of the ground emerges in the 1830s and 40s during the gold rush period... It starts to take on this other sense of being a person who is using a romantic partner for money, usually a woman using a man for money."
(15:18)

She traces its usage from early 20th-century figures like Peggy Hopkins Joyce to modern times, noting a decline in its prevalence and a shift towards more nuanced understandings of relationship power dynamics.

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Cultural Implications and Misogyny

The episode critically examines how society often unfairly targets young women in age-disparate relationships, reflecting underlying misogynistic biases.

"It's interesting that we all decided at once that the 24-year-old is the one with the power and the 73-year-old is not."
(20:56)

Constance Grady discusses the resurgence of anti-feminist sentiments and how they contribute to the demonization of Hudson, positioning her as manipulative and controlling without substantive evidence.

"We have a lot of more rosy ways of talking about this idea as a culture... But when you look at it in the context of an alleged gold digger, then the relationship has lost the justification that love can offer it."
(20:21)

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Reevaluating Power Dynamics

The hosts advocate for a more balanced perspective, suggesting that both parties in the relationship may share responsibility or that the dynamics are more complex than superficial labels allow.

"Maybe just as we feel ourselves inclined to say, well, probably it's the young hot woman who's at fault, we could perhaps consider his of having recently decided that we were actually really mean to a bunch of young hot women when we blame them for everything 20 years ago and, you know, maybe learn from that and take a step back and say, we don't know who's to blame."
(24:23)

They call for a reconsideration of how society assigns blame and urges a more empathetic and nuanced understanding of such relationships.

---

Conclusion

The episode of Today, Explained provides a comprehensive analysis of Bill Belichick's relationship with Jordan Hudson, using it as a lens to explore broader societal issues related to age disparities, gender roles, and the inherent biases in how we perceive and judge personal relationships. By unpacking the historical context of terms like "gold digger" and challenging contemporary misogynistic narratives, the hosts encourage listeners to adopt a more thoughtful and less judgmental stance on complex interpersonal dynamics.

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Notable Quotes

• Jason P. Frank:
  "Bill Belichick is an icon to that area, and I think he's an icon to the entire country because the Patriots were so, so successful under him."
  (02:49)

• Constance Grady:
  "But when you look at it in the context of an alleged gold digger, then the relationship has lost the justification that love can offer it."
  (20:21)

• Sean Rameswaram:
  "We started calling people a gold digger in a way that is particularly pathetic."
  (14:28)

---

Further Exploration

For more insights and discussions on contemporary cultural phenomena, tune into other episodes of Today, Explained and follow the hosts on Vox Media's platforms.

Transcript

[Sean Ramas]

In the spring of 2024, I was watching the Roast of Tom Brady on Netflix and people kept making jokes about Bill Belichick's relationship. I laughed, though I wasn't quite sure I got it.

[Jason P. Frank]

But now I know why you're so obsessed with Foxborough High School.

[Constance Grady]

You were scouting your new girlfriend.

[Sean Ramas]

About A month later, 73 year old Bill's relationship with 24 year old Jordan Hudson became public and it seems like the country's been obsessed with it ever since. There are interviews not talking about this Investigations when did she get control over.

[Jason P. Frank]

Bill Belichick's new media empire?

[Sean Ramas]

Articles plural in the New York Times why do we care about these people?

[Jason P. Frank]

You care because he's Bill Belichick and you care about whoever he's with. And number two, you should care because she's 24 years old and a lot of people are very scared of her.

[Sean Ramas]

What Bill Belichick's relationship tells us about us on TODAY Explained support for this.

[Jason P. Frank]

Podcast and the following message is brought to you by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. With E Trade you can dive into the market with easy to use tools.

[Constance Grady]

$0 commissions and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love.

[Jason P. Frank]

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[Constance Grady]

Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit.

[Jason P. Frank]

Get started [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley.

[Constance Grady]

This episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the Cousteau Barcelona cowboy top or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion eBay things people love. You're listening to today, explained.

[Sean Ramas]

Jason P. Frank writes about things like theater, comedy, music at Vulture. So the first thing we asked him was if he was the right person to ask about Bill Belichick and and Jordan Hudson.

[Jason P. Frank]

Totally. No, I actually am the right person to ask this because I grew up in New Hampshire.

[Sean Ramas]

Perfect.

[Jason P. Frank]

And Bill Belichick famously was the coach of the New England Patriots. I'm not a scientist. It's football time, fellas. Let's get into it. He won eight Super Bowls.

[Constance Grady]

Patriots win the Super Bowl.

[Jason P. Frank]

I don't remember a time when I didn't know who Bill Belichick was. And that's not because I love football. That's not because I follow the Patriots religiously. That's because I was gifted a Patriots jersey in the hospital. Basically, that's just what happens in New England. That's how it works. Bill Belichick is an icon to that area, and I think he's an icon to the entire country because the Patriots were so, so successful under him. He created Tom Brady. Tom Brady doesn't exist without Bill Belichick.

[Sean Ramas]

And before we get into who Bill Belichick happens to be dating, what did we know about his personality in this wildly successful era that the New England Patriots had?

[Jason P. Frank]

Yeah, Bill Belichick sucks, man. He was, like, always wearing, you know, ratty clothing, you know, making millions and millions of dollars a year and wearing, you know, sweatshirts that were cut off and had rips in them.

[Constance Grady]

Bill Belichick's wardrobe is getting some attention on social media. Today. He talked with reporters while sporting a well worn top of some sort. Maybe it's not even really a top anymore. It does look very comfortable, though.

[Jason P. Frank]

And he refused to talk to the media. Like, he always considered media the enemy in a really, really vicious way, which made him always feel very standoffish because the only time that you perceived him was through the media.

[Sean Ramas]

You want to talk about the game, and we're not gonna get into post game analysis here. Really.

[Constance Grady]

I've had enough of that. I could just xerox you a copy.

[Jason P. Frank]

Of the game plan.

[Constance Grady]

You can send it over to Kansas City if you can. I mean, it might be easier for all of us.

[Jason P. Frank]

Coined a lot of catchphrases that were all very like, do the work.

[Constance Grady]

Look, fellas, it's just about doing our job.

[Jason P. Frank]

If you've ever heard no days off. That's a Bill Belichick original.

[Constance Grady]

No days off. No.

[Jason P. Frank]

And it was really, really successful. But the vibe is bad. The vibe's bad. Very controlling. Now he's about to start coaching at UNC.

[Sean Ramas]

Okay, who is his 24 year old girlfriend? Who is Jordan Hudson?

[Jason P. Frank]

Jordan Hudson spelled O N. Jordan is spelled with an o N, which is wrong.

[Sean Ramas]

I mean, if nothing else, I'm scared of that.

[Jason P. Frank]

Yeah, yeah. That's a really. That's. I was. Poor decision making. But she didn't make that decision. We can't blame her for that. She's 50 years younger than him. She's a Beauty pageant contestant and a former college cheerleader. She's kind of the head of his public relations team. Although whether or not that is a true thing or just functionally the case is a little bit unclear. And she is working the media circuit is what she's doing. She's a fascinating personality. No one really can get a real handle on her. She hasn't done a real, real media interview since she started dating him. And yet she's been accompanied by constant presence in everything that's been going on in his life.

[Sean Ramas]

Okay, and before we get to that constant presence, how did these two lovebirds meet?

[Jason P. Frank]

So what they say is that they met on a plane. She was reading a college textbook. He struck up a conversation with her about that college textbook, which he was apparently really interested in. He signed the textbook.

[Sean Ramas]

Wait, he signed a textbook that, like, he didn't write? He just signed a random book?

[Jason P. Frank]

No, no, no. He just signed her textbook. Yes. Yeah.

[Sean Ramas]

Okay.

[Jason P. Frank]

She's from Maine, so it is totally possible that she knows who this guy, like, really knew who this guy was, like, wanted to talk to him anyway before she even realized that grandpa wanted to date her.

[Sean Ramas]

And grandpa did indeed start dating her.

[Jason P. Frank]

Yeah, Grandpa and Jordan are officially dating.

[Sean Ramas]

Tell us what happens more recently. Where do we get this idea that Jordan Hudson is sort of a stakeholder in the Bill Belichick experience?

[Jason P. Frank]

There's two things that happened. Number one, sports fans started hearing about it because there started being reporting. The athletic was reporting on her on April 15. They reported some stuff about how she was really involved with the coaching at unc. But. But that's kind of inside baseball y inside football. They also reported that she was filing for trademarks for his phrases, which were already coined by the Patriots. So he said them, but they're trademarked by the Patriots, so he can't really, like, double trademark. So she started trademarking them with parentheses. Bill's version after them, Like Taylor's version. Like, no days off Bill's version.

[Sean Ramas]

Huh.

[Jason P. Frank]

So that's like a thing that's happening in the background. But then on April 27, CBS Sunday Morning interviews Bill Belichick about his memoir. It pretty clearly was supposed to be kind of a pretty easy interview. Not, I mean, all up to CBS Sunday Morning. But if you want to go and do a pleasant enough interview, they are down for a pleasant interview.

[Sean Ramas]

Right.

[Jason P. Frank]

But Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson together, like, they're not here for a pleasant interview. Because if you ask them anything other than, like, what was it like to write the memoir that you probably had ghostwritten, let's be honest. Then they're mad. So Tony decopal is interviewing Bill Belichick. And then decopal asks him very, very basic questions about Jordan Hudson.

[Sean Ramas]

How did you guys meet?

[Jason P. Frank]

Which he refuses to answer. And then Hudson from off screen goes.

[Constance Grady]

Not talking about this. No, no.

[Jason P. Frank]

But that's the moment that the Jordan Hudson figure kind of blows up. There's also a voiceover from decopel that.

[Constance Grady]

Says Jordan was a constant presence during our interview.

[Sean Ramas]

How do people respond to this CBS Sunday Morning interview?

[Jason P. Frank]

Negatively.

[Constance Grady]

We gotta talk about Bill Belichick. You ripped him. Okay. I mean, I thought it was elder abuse.

[Jason P. Frank]

TMZ claims they spoke to sources who said Hudson was a nightmare on the set.

[Constance Grady]

Is she dating Bill Belichick because she really cares about him, or is she potentially a gold digger?

[Jason P. Frank]

This is where it really starts to blow up and where she starts to be known as, like, kind of scary, which I would say is a loaded word and potentially misogynistic. Right. Like, do I think that Bill Belichick is entirely in, like, is she puppeteering Bill Belichick to get whatever she wants? I don't know about that. Is she involved in places that she probably should not be based on the fact that she has no experience in publicity for football? Yes. Like, that's kind of undoubtedly true. She is doing people's jobs for them. But is she scary? Is she all controlling? This is where, like, the vibe goes a little bit like, she's a witch. She's a succubus. Kill her. Kill her. You see, the Salem witch trials start to happen a little bit because she's a weird girl doing weird things, but isn't a monster. It's an interesting dynamic where she is being potentially inappropriate, particularly in the Sunday morning interview, she also reporting comes out that she prevented Hard Knocks, which is a documentary series about football teams, which was planning on doing a series about Belichick's first season at unc, and she blocks that from happening. So she's definitely in places where she maybe shouldn't be. And also people start reacting to her with layers of misogyny. Right.

[Sean Ramas]

You started off this conversation by saying, like, Bill Belichick, famously a bit of a dick, maybe a bit of a tyrant. Who knows how he coached his football team. How does the narrative so quickly shift to elder abuse? Is that what you're saying?

[Jason P. Frank]

Yeah, yeah, basically. I know, and it's interesting because normally I feel like the social media stereotype is that social media perceives May December relationships as, like, always abuse toward the younger person. Right? So you would think that people would be like protect Jordan Hudson and that is not what's happening. Instead it feels like she is being demonized when I think that a more likely situation is that they're both in on this.

[Sean Ramas]

Jason with an O has been writing about Jordan with an O over at Vultr with some u's after a word from our spoiler sponsors. Why one of the ways Jordan Hudson's being demonized is particularly pathetic Does TODAY Explain.

[Constance Grady]

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[Sean Ramas]

Foreign.

[Jason P. Frank]

I'm Claire Parker.

[Constance Grady]

And I'm Ashley Hamilton.

[Jason P. Frank]

And this week we're discussing Hilaria Baldwin. Why does she have so many kids?

[Constance Grady]

She will not answer that question for you in a way that you want it answered, but she will respond to every single thing ever written about her in a tabloid. In a deeply cryptic way.

[Sean Ramas]

She's taking on the tough questions like.

[Jason P. Frank]

Does ADD make you speak with a Spanish accent? Does an older man guarantee happiness in a marriage?

[Constance Grady]

We Talked to Eliza McClam and Julia Hava from Bingetopia Podcast. They are Hilaria Baldwin experts and they dove deep with us on Hilaria's latest memoir, manual not included. You can listen to new episodes of.

[Jason P. Frank]

Celebrity Memoir Book Club every Tuesday on Amazon Music.

[Sean Ramas]

Hello, My name is Sean Romsvoorm and I'm one of the hosts of Today Explained. And I'm here to ask you for a favor. The TODAY Explained team is planning for the future of the show and we want our listeners to be a part of that future. So we're asking you to help us out by filling out a brief survey. Your feedback will help us Figure out what's working, what's not, and how we can make today explained even better. Just visit voxmedia.com survey I'm just caught up on what's not working, what's not working. You guys visit voxmedia.comsurvey to give us your feedback. That's voxmedia.comsurvey what's not working. Sean Ramas from here with our colleague Constance Grady, who wrote about one specific form of Jordan Hudson's demonization that she saw. People were calling her a gold digger.

[Constance Grady]

And it's a little bit of a retro term. It kind of surprised me when I saw people using it in relation to her because it makes me feel like I'm in a time machine. I haven't really heard people using the word gold digger in a non Kanye west context in probably like 10, 20 years, but they are using it a lot. About Jordan Hudson with two O's.

[Sean Ramas]

As she's known by her. Well, let's just put calling Jordan a gold digger on hold for a second because I want to know where this term came from and where it eventually went because it sounds like it had a moment and then that moment passed. When did we start calling people a gold digger in this country or another one?

[Constance Grady]

Yeah. So the phrase gold digger in its originalist, purest sense as just like a person literally taking gold out of the ground emerges in the 1830s and 40s during the gold rush period. It starts to take on this other sense of being a person who is using a romantic partner for money, usually a woman using a man for money. At the beginning of the 20th century, we first start seeing it around like 1915 or so. The most famous gold digger so called of that era was this showgirl named Peggy Hopkins. Joyce, who, low key, is kind of iconic, and I'm a little obsessed with her now. She got married six different times, mostly to millionaires, and also divorced from all of them. On one of her wedding nights, she locked herself into the bathroom and refused to come out until her husband wrote her a check for 500 grand. Did it work? Yeah, he did it. And then when she divorced him, he countersued and said she only married him to defraud him.

[Sean Ramas]

She doesn't sound like a gold digger. She sounds like a genius.

[Constance Grady]

Honestly. Yes. What an icon.

[Sean Ramas]

Okay, so Peggy was one of the first people to be labeled a gold digger. And then I assume it's just thrown around a lot over the decades, because when I was growing up in the 90s, I remember probably reading this term in like magazines to refer to one Anna Nicole Smith, would you say you loved him?

[Constance Grady]

I loved him very much. No, without being in love.

[Sean Ramas]

Right.

[Constance Grady]

I mean, you weren't physically. I mean, I wasn't physically. Oh, my God, you hot, hot body. You know, like that. It was just. I loved him for so much, what he did for me and my son. I mean, I just loved him. So I've never had love like that before. Oh, yes. Anna Nicole Smith, who was labeled a gold digger after she got married to J. Howard Marshall ii. Incredible billionaire name. He was an oil tycoon. What's kind of interesting about Anna Nicole Smith is after her death in 2007, she's kind of become one of women of the 90s and 2000s that we have all kind of collectively agreed we mistreated at the time. And one of the ways that we have sort of collectively agreed we mistreated her is by calling her a gold digger.

[Sean Ramas]

Because, what, like, we shouldn't be judging people for getting married, for whatever the reason might be.

[Constance Grady]

I think that there's a sense that we don't really know what was going on in that marriage. It didn't seem to be unaffectionate or as though both parties didn't know what they were getting out of it in a pretty clear sense. So the question becomes, right, why did we put all the blame on Anna Nicole Smith and not on Marshall?

[Sean Ramas]

Right. Like, no one even knows his name.

[Constance Grady]

Absolutely. Like, if I said Anna Nicole Smith's husband, who on earth could name J. Howard Marshall ii? Right.

[Sean Ramas]

Yeah.

[Constance Grady]

But the fact of their marriage became this scandal that really tarred her name for the rest of her very short and tragic life.

[Sean Ramas]

But you did mention earlier, Constance, that eventually, you know, apart from Kanye's anthem, we stopped using this term as much.

[Constance Grady]

Yeah. So as many listeners will recall, the 2010s were a pretty tumultuous decade in terms of our pop cultural relationships to gender and power dynamics. Dynamics and lots of progressive ideas getting mainstreamed in ways that they hadn't been before. And a lot of these sort of. I don't even want to say lightly, these pretty misogynistic terms like gold digger kind of start to fade out of common usage. And you start to see people more interested in exploring the power dynamics in relationships that they might have initially, 10 years earlier, been willing to write off as just like a gold digger and a SAP.

[Sean Ramas]

Do we come up with nicer ways of describing a relationship in which someone's maybe looking for financial security?

[Constance Grady]

I mean, certainly we have the expression sugar baby, sugar daddy. Oh, yeah, sweet And I think the big thing distinguishing that from a gold digger is the implication that it's fully consensual. Everyone's going in there with their eyes open, whereas a gold digger, by implication is manipulating. They are telling their mark that they're totally in love and that's why they're there.

[Sean Ramas]

Okay, so we've got sugar baby and sugar daddy. And yet the discourse around one Jordan Hudson, just to bring this back to the subject at hand, does not seem to be so sweet.

[Constance Grady]

Not so sweet, not so much. People seem really off put by the dynamic, but at the same time, the consensus becoming almost immediately, Jordan is definitely doing something to Bill. She is taking advantage. She's manipulating. That's interesting to me that we all decided at once that the 24 year old is the one with the power and the 73 year old is not.

[Jason P. Frank]

Mm.

[Sean Ramas]

And why are we deciding that? Why are we inclined to side with the old man instead of the young woman?

[Constance Grady]

So I think one of the things that's interesting about this moment in time is we're right in the middle of a pretty reactionary, regressive turn against feminism. How many 65 year old women do we have to hear saying that I march with the feminist movement and I bought into the fact that men are the enemy. I've never been married, I'm alone and I'm miserable, and I wish I would have never bought into that philosophy.

[Sean Ramas]

There's a brand of more radical feminism.

[Constance Grady]

That insists that our culture is best.

[Sean Ramas]

Characterized as an oppressive patriarchy.

[Constance Grady]

And I think that first of all, that that's an appalling sociological doctrine, and I think it has very negative psychological effects. There's this sort of widespread feeling somewhat on the center, but very much so among people on the right, that the Me Too movement from five years ago went too far and it overreached and now we have to start correcting for it. So we're seeing a lot of these old anti feminist ideas make their way back into the mainstream. And one of the forms that's taking right now is people arguing that our culture is falling apart because women do not depend any longer on men for their financial well being.

[Jason P. Frank]

These are jobs where you can support a family, you get a retirement plan.

[Sean Ramas]

You get a pension, you have good health care, you're paid well, well above.

[Jason P. Frank]

What you would consider to be the living wage. One of the things that's happened is.

[Constance Grady]

That traditional masculinity, the idea that it is a man's job to protect women.

[Jason P. Frank]

This is one of our jobs as human beings.

[Sean Ramas]

As men to protect women. The feminist movement doesn't like that.

[Constance Grady]

So this is something that a lot of Trump's supporters believe his tariffs are going to fix. They think the tariffs will bring us back to this kind of imaginary 1950s economy where men have rugged masculine jobs at factories and women's femin made up email jobs will all fall away, which means that in turn, women will be forced to return to the home, to the kitchen, and they'll need to rely on men to support them financially. So now all these single men without prospects will finally have a girlfriend. That's kind of the fantasy that people hope that Trump will make come true for them.

[Sean Ramas]

And it's in that fantasy that negging Jordan Hudson for dating Bill Belichick makes some kind of sense.

[Constance Grady]

Well, I mean, the thing is, it's a really, when you hear it outlined in those terms, it's a really gross fantasy. Right. We have a lot of more rosy ways of talking about this idea as a culture. You know, there's the image of the trad wife and the stay at home girlfriend and all these women on social media talking about how they're living a soft life and taking their homemade sourdough out of the oven and doing their Pilates in beautiful sunlight. And that makes this whole arrangement look very rose tinted and lovely. But when you look at it in the context of a alleged gold digger, then the relationship has lost the justification that love can offer it. It looks coarse, it looks crass. It's just this kind of brutal financial logic being laid bare. And I think that makes us as a culture, really uncomfortable. The gold digger becomes this person we can blame for our own discomfort. We can make her the scapegoat for this financial arrangement that a lot of very powerful people in our culture are currently saying we should all aspire to have. What I would love to see happening is a scenario where we are able to acknowledge that we don't really know what the power dynamic with this couple is. We don't know who is using who or if anyone is actually being used. And maybe just as we feel ourselves inclined to say, well, probably it's the young hot woman who's at fault, we could perhaps consider his of having recently decided that we were actually really mean to a bunch of young hot women when we blame them for everything 20 years ago and, you know, maybe learn from that and take a step back and say, we don't know who's to blame. We don't know that there is anything to blame. We don't know that anyone's being hurt here.

[Sean Ramas]

Amen.

[Constance Grady]

Let's give them a little space.

[Sean Ramas]

Constance Grady is holding space for Jordan and [e-mail] where you can read her on the hopefully retired phrase gold digger. Heidi Mwogdi loves the Pats and produced our show. Jolie Myers edited. Laura Bullard was on due diligence. Andrea Christensdotter was on the mix. Our team includes Gabrielle Burbay, Victoria Chamberlain, Miles Bryan, Avishai Artsy, Peter Balanon Rosen Patrick Boyd, Devin Schwartz, Denise Guerra, our supervising editor, Amina Al Saadi, our executive producer, producer Miranda Kennedy and Noel King, who's celebrating her birthday. Happy birthday, King. We use music by Breakmaster Cylinder and we got another show on Sundays. This week's Explain it to Me is all about Gen Z finding religion. You can listen right here. I'm Sean Ramis from Today Explained is distributed by wnyc. The show is a part of Vox. Sam.