Movie Viewer 1 (3:28)

What ended up being my most favorite thing about this movie was the fact that it was so enlightening.

Mary Jordan (3:33)

She was an executive. She was a great model. She's gorgeous.

Movie Viewer 2 (3:38)

The theater were. It was actually a full theater. Everyone was kind of clapping, and it was. It was a fun experience.

Ested Herndon (3:47)

Okay, so give me your review overall, out of how many stars? If you could sum it up, if.

Mary Jordan (3:53)

You looked at it as I did, as a lost opportunity for Melania to really come center stage and gain more fans, it was kind of a zero. You know, it was advertised as this new reveal pulling the curtain back on Melania. But actually, you never see her in jeans. She's constantly perfectly dressed in designer gear, full makeup. I think she could have humanized herself, and, you know, that was the goal, which I think people want to know. Like, what does she do? You know, she disappears for weeks at a time. What is she doing? And there's none of that. We see her jet setting in and out of, you know, vans, getting into a private plane, and jetting between her mansion in Florida beside the ocean with a spa, and then coming back into Trump Tower. Gold doors, mahogany marble floors. And we know that. We've seen that.

Ested Herndon (5:01)

My sense is that this has been kind of ravaged by critics, that you're not alone in your low star rating. Is that right?

Mary Jordan (5:08)

Well, people have said, you know, it's an infomercial. It's the worst movie we've ever seen. It's an abomination. It's an embarrassment.

Ested Herndon (5:15)

All right, what we have with Melania is a part documentary, but part propaganda film, part Devil Wears Prada sequel without the lovable lead.

Movie Viewer 1 (5:23)

It totally makes no sense. If they wanted to make a documentary about her, they should have given us some more of her backstory instead. It's truly all about the hamburglar look.

Mary Jordan (5:32)

And Rotten Tomatoes, you know, hit 11. I gave it 11% out of a. In a scale of 100. So. But, you know, we've seen movies that people go to see and like, that critics, you know, pan. So here we go again.

Melania Trump (5:48)

Here we go again.

Ested Herndon (5:52)

I want to get into the meat also, but how did this movie even come to be? Like, give us the origin story of the Melania Trump documentary.

Mary Jordan (6:01)

Apparently there was a conversation that included Jeff Bezos, who not only is one of the richest men in the world, but he owns Amazon and he owns this studio. And there was talk and Melania wanted to do a movie, and voila, a deal was made and he paid an extraordinary amount for it.

Movie Viewer 2 (6:21)

The fact that there's so much criticism that Amazon paid $40 million to acquire.

Mary Jordan (6:26)

The rights to this film, and reports say it could be one of the most expensive documentaries to have ever been made. At one point in the movie, Melania says, I intend to break norms as first lady. Well, the very first, first thing was the money she took that broke all norms. Because typically you wait to leave public office to do these commercial ventures. Why? Because of the appearance of graft, of corruption. I mean, sure, rich guy, let's say, like Jeff Bezos, who has government contracts, might like to curry favor with the President by throwing millions of dollars at his wife. I mean, that's why you don't do.

Ested Herndon (7:10)

It onto the film. And in substance, Melania Trump said that the movie was a never before seen look into her life. You mentioned this earlier, but I just want to ask it directly, like, did we, what did we learn about her life from this documentary?

Mary Jordan (7:24)

I did not know that she has an entire drawer full of designer sunglasses. There were things like that. Very. You know, at one point she's asked, who's your favorite recording artist? And she says, michael Jackson, what's your favorite song? And she said, billie Jean. All right, now we know that. So there were like a few lyrics.

Ested Herndon (7:50)

That honestly is like, maybe the chatgpt answer. If you put in, like, if you average all of humanity, what their favorite song would be. I mean, like, that's not that deep of an insight.

Mary Jordan (8:01)

No, there was no deep reflection. I mean, I think, again, what a missed opportunity. She has an incredible story to tell and she just doesn't tell it. I mean, actually, it made me think that maybe she's smarter than many people believe, because now she can get paid for another movie that offers to reveal. Like, she could do a sequel. Okay, this time I really will reveal. And she could make millions more.

Ested Herndon (8:30)

You know, a lot of celebrities have shied away from, you know, public vulnerability necessarily, that maybe this. We're not surprised that this documentary doesn't lay out kind of deeper insights into her life. But, you know, fashion also seems to be a core part of what this documentary was. Was it making some sort of argument that even I have heard some Trump supporters make in political spaces that, you know, Melania Trump is an underrated figure in, you know, when we think about legacy fashion worlds like Vogue or other.

Mary Jordan (9:03)

Things like that, I think clearly she thinks about fashion. She thinks about clothes to an extraordinary degree.

Melania Trump (9:10)

Just my style. There is not really a message that's what I like. And they will see it in the film, okay, everything.

Mary Jordan (9:19)

And she talks about sharp colors and that black and white are her favorite colors. And there's an enormous percent of the movie. She's standing there and she's like, take this in a pinch, you know, with people hemming and, like, you clearly see that she has an eye.

Melania Trump (9:37)

The idea from the details, how I designed it, and it will be all.

Mary Jordan (9:43)

In the film and every detail. She talks that her mother, who was a seamstress and made patterns, gave her her fashion sense or attention to detail. That we know, we believe. It's just that when you're the first lady, there is this expectation that you do that for other people. So why, for instance, didn't she announce that, okay, $20 million made by this thing will go to help young people, young people who want to go to fashion, underprivileged people. There was one part where she talked about foster children. I mean, I have no doubt that she cares about children. She is clearly a concerned mom, a devoted mother. She talks about Baron. We see him on the screen. We don't see the other stepchildren except glancingly in the Barron is something that he's talked about and front and center in her life. She loves children. I believe that. I know that. Talking to people. But what is she doing for them? She talks about fostering children, but there's no details. And because in the past, the Trumps, Donald Trump included, have said that they're doing this. Why do we never see details? And then when we actually dig into the journalists dig into it, it turns out that, hey, this was advertised as a big philanthrop, but it didn't really work out, and the charity didn't get the money. So if they're doing that, let's be front and center and talk about details. How many kids and what are they doing?

Ested Herndon (11:17)

Yeah, I read that all of the heavy hitters are in this movie. You get cameos for Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, J.D. vance. I mean, I guess I wanted to know. Of course, the president plays a big role, should mention him. What do they say? Do we learn anything about their relationship to her from it? What is their role in the doc?

Mary Jordan (11:38)

This is Melania, by Melania, named Melania. She does, you know, you don't hear from any of those people. You have a glance. Even Donald Trump is pretty much silenced in this. She is the focus. And, you know, fair enough. The guy has stolen the limelight for decades since they've been married. Right. This is her. This is her one moment. But there is this one moment where she walks in when he's practicing his inaugural for January 2025, and he said he wants to be a peacemaker, and she goes, and unifier. And then cut.

Donald Trump (12:15)

My proudest legacy will be that of a peacemaker and unifier. That's what I want to be, a peacemaker and a unifier.

Mary Jordan (12:24)

And he uses her word unifier. You know, obviously a nod to showing she has influence. So. But we only really see Donald when it supports Melania because she had creative control.

Ested Herndon (12:40)

Yeah. Yeah. So you're saying, like, we don't get, like, you know, Trump doesn't talk about, you know, when they met or anything like that. It's just like, oh, gosh, no, that.

Mary Jordan (12:54)

Would be too deep. That would like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is, that's why people are saying it'. Infomercial. It's like a montage of wedding photos. It's, you know, it's not. At no point do we, you know, if somebody else were doing a book on a movie on Melania, they would ask. They would do that. Of course, this is the danger of being in charge of telling your own story.

Ested Herndon (13:21)

Coming up, what do we know about Melania Trump?

Mary Jordan (13:26)

Foreign.

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Mary Jordan (15:25)

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Vergecast Host (16:02)

A lot of us have spent a lot of the last week watching videos of what's happening on the streets of Minneapolis and understanding what it is that we're seeing, but also what's real and what isn't and what's AI and who is taking these videos and how we're supposed to understand the source feels harder than ever. So this week on the Vergecast we're talking about what's happening in Minneapolis, how information moves in an AI age and what it means to make sense of it all. All that plus what's new with the new TikTok, why everything feels like it's falling apart on TikTok and more on the Vergecast. Wherever you get podcasts.

Melania Trump (16:41)

Hi Mr. President. Congratulations.

Donald Trump (16:44)

Did you watch it?

Melania Trump (16:45)

I did not. Yeah, I will see it on Today Explained.

Ested Herndon (16:48)

We're back with Mary Jordan. Mary, since you wrote a biography about Melania Trump In 2021, we wanted to ask you to fill in some of the gaps that were maybe left out of the movie. Can you tell me about the process you went through in your book? What did you learn about the famously closed off figure?

Mary Jordan (17:05)

I ran the Washington Post bureaus in Tokyo, Mexico, London. I've worked in 40 countries. I've met a lot of interesting people, both in politics and in public life. I have never, including drug cartel leaders, met someone more secretive. She was the hardest target because she had so few friends, so few people who knew her. You know, I'd go to Slovenia and I'd get the class list in her elementary school, you know, find them, and they would all say, well, she really talked that. But there were one person, and you find the one person, you get tiny bit. She was so quiet.

Ested Herndon (17:44)

And this was true her whole life.

Mary Jordan (17:46)

Whole life she was tough to write about because, like, Donald Trump has so many people that you can call who have direct interaction, right? Yeah, she does not. A lot of Americans would love to hear the inspiring story of her mom, who was a factory worker in a former communist country. She comes, she wants to make it big. She doesn't have that much money. She first lives in New York City and she has to share a one bedroom, you know, curtain down the middle. And you live in the city? I do.

Ested Herndon (18:17)

It's hard to have a pet.

Melania Trump (18:18)

Yes, that's true. It's New York, so very busy place.

Mary Jordan (18:23)

And I said to many people in New York who knew her after, when she was younger and she had just married Trump, they said that she just wanted to act like she was always like this. Always rich. What was your first impression of Donald Trump?

Melania Trump (18:39)

Well, he was very charming and we had the great sparkle.

Ested Herndon (18:46)

Can we think about the usual role of first lady? How does she depart from that other than the obvious ways like how even though going back to her first term, how has she been different in that role?

Mary Jordan (18:59)

Well, there was this expectation that because the public elected you and you're in the White House, that the public pays for it. You have Secret Service and you have Air Force One. All that on the government dime, that you tell people where you are, like, there's a public agenda. What are you doing today? She said, well, I don't have to do that. I'm not elected. I'm just the spouse. So she would hide like nobody knew where she was. Why wasn't Melania Trump at the White.

Movie Viewer 2 (19:24)

House with President Elect Donald Trump?

Better Help / Sponsored Ad Voice (19:27)

Where on earth is Melania?

Mary Jordan (19:29)

So she, she has redefined the role. And she says, and she told me, you know, I'm not the elected one and she can do whatever she wants. And so if she doesn't feel like it, she doesn't go. And, you know, it kind of works because people, oh, my God. Melania hasn't been seen in two weeks. She's coming out. And so she does get more people to pay attention when she does speak again. We have this tradition that the first lady helps others, uses the powerful office, the amazing reach of the microphone and platform of the first lady. I mean, it's so powerful. Laura Bush did it, created the National Book Festival, had a whole campaign. Let's read literacy. No matter what our political views might be or what our differences might be of any kind, we all love the books. We all love reading. Michelle Obama tackled the obesity campaign to achieve a single but very ambitious goal, and that's to solve the problem of childhood obesity in a generation. So, like, let's. She could do something even if it was in fashion. Hey, wouldn't that be great? You know, hey, all these young people who want to get in fashion, I can help you.

Ested Herndon (20:45)

But the absence does, like, lead to some questions. I mean, you kind of implied this, but do we know where she's been? Like, you know, my quantum question for the last year is actually just, you know, what has she been up to?

Mary Jordan (20:58)

Well, she's wherever Barron is, pretty much. And Barron now likes to be in the White House. I like my suitcase now. He's 19. And so she's now in this term, more in the White House than she has in the past, mainly because Barron wants to be there. But she loves to go to New York and Trump Tower, and she loves to go to Mar a Lago. She calls it Mar a Lago in Florida, her refuge. In the movie, she spends a lot of time not with her husband. And that's, I think, the big difference. Like the Bidens. You'd see them in Delaware riding bikes. You'd see the Obamas going to dinner, these little candid moments where it actually looked like they liked each other. You know, the Bushes holding hands. Like, you don't see that with the Trumps. When he's leaning in to kiss her under her hat, it looks so awkward. You want to cringe.

Ested Herndon (21:50)

You know, the idea of happy marriage, political couples, has seemed necessary in the White House. But I guess there is the question that is implied in all of this is that, should it be? You know, when you mentioned that Melania Trump says, I'm not the elected one, a part of me wants to give that argument some credence. I mean, is there some power in her saying, stepping away from that public role and kind of saying, you know what? I don't have to be that for Americans. I don't have to be America's wife?

Mary Jordan (22:24)

She's absolutely right. She flat out said, I don't get paid. I don't have to do this. Of course, that's it. It's just that, you know, it was disappointing to some people that she is given this amazing platform. She is the first first lady in American history who grew up not speaking English as their first language, that as an immigrant, maybe she could use this privilege to help others. The irony is her husband's brutal crackdown, you know, his hard line on immigration makes it kind of more, you know, disappointing to many people. And I've heard that over and over when I was talking to people.

Melania Trump (23:04)

I'm against the violence. So if, please, if you protest, protest in peace. And we need to unify in these times.

Mary Jordan (23:13)

But you were talking about power, and I think this is really important, is that Melania has way more power than people realize. She has all the secrets on Donald Trump. If she walked out on him right now and she's like, bye, bye, Donald, you know, his fan base would hate it. MAGA would hate it.

Ested Herndon (23:34)

You know, political spouse, as you mentioned, can be an important role. We know that some have played important roles in politics in the past. I think even Jill Biden was an important figure in former President Biden's reelection campaign. Do we know, outside of what she projected in the movie, is she exerting any influence on him politically? Is there any way that, as you even mentioned, stuff like the immigration crackdown, that someone like Melania Trump might become a bigger figure going forward?

Mary Jordan (24:09)

I definitely think she has influence. And when she. She told me and she's told others that I give him my opinion, he doesn't always take it. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't.

Better Help / Sponsored Ad Voice (24:22)

Does she have impact with you?

Donald Trump (24:23)

Well, the fact is, I have George and Carolyn, but I also have George and Carolyn, and I have my little Melania.

Melania Trump (24:28)

I don't agree always what he posts, but his action is his action, and I tell him that.

Mary Jordan (24:37)

But I know, for instance, that he relies on her because he trusts her. You know, her last name is Trump and her son's last name is Trump. She wants Trump to succeed. And the longer Donald has been in the White House, the circle of people he trusts is shrunken. She's been called into meetings when he wants to, hey, should I have this person for this job or this person? And she tells him so. He does rely on her because he trusts him. She has never once rang up some journalists and said, I got a story for you about Donald Trump and women, or Donald Trump and Epstein, or, you know, I mean, she could do that.

Ested Herndon (25:15)

Yeah, yeah. She has definitely stuck by him. And I think that's been important, as you mentioned. I mean, I don't want to move on from the ethics of here a little too fast though. Like, what do we know about what comes next for Melania Trump?

Mary Jordan (25:29)

She hasn't said, but it's very noticeable how she appears happier and more confident now in public. Some of that is just more experience in the public eye. So I have no doubt that she's going to continue her business deal. She's done a best selling book. She's now done this movie that's made her millions. She has all kinds of jewelry and things that you can buy on melaniatrump.com she says in the movie that she wants to talk to other leaders around the world and have a coalition to help children. I think she can pivot very quickly. She is actually quite young. She's only 55. We're going to see Melania for a long, long time if she chooses to, you know, stay out there and do things. And even though people and she says, and everyone says, oh, she's so private, she actually likes when she's ready and when she's perfectly outfitted, likes to go to the public. So I don't think she's going to completely disappear when they leave the White House.

Ested Herndon (26:49)

Mary Jordan is a reporter and associate editor at the Washington Post. She's the author of the book the Art of Her the Untold Story of Melania Trump. Today's show was produced by Ariana Ospudu and edited by Aminah Al Saadi. Fact checked by Andrea Lopez Cruzado and engineered by David Tadashore and Patrick Boyd. I'm Ested Herndon and this is TODAY Explained.