When nature calls in space

Summary

Podcast Summary: Today, Explained

Episode: “When nature calls in space”

Date: April 6, 2026
Host: Sean Rameswaram
Guests: Lauren Grosch (Bloomberg, global space reporter), K.R. Calloway (Scientific American writer)

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Episode Overview

This episode highlights the historic Artemis 2 mission—a major step for human space exploration as a diverse, international crew performs a close flyby of the moon. Beyond the mission’s scientific and political significance, the episode takes an unusually candid turn: it dives into one of spaceflight’s most practical yet unsung challenges—how astronauts go to the bathroom in space. The conversation balances wonder at human achievement with irreverent humor about the realities of life beyond Earth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Artemis 2 Mission: A New Moonshot

• Historic Moment:

  • The Artemis 2 mission features four astronauts making the closest approach to the moon since Apollo, aiming to break distance records and witness the moon’s far side (01:54–02:43).
  • The crew sets multiple firsts:
    • First woman (Christina Koch), first Black astronaut (Victor Glover), and first Canadian (Jeremy Hansen) to journey this far (03:20–03:49).
  • They’ll also witness and study a solar eclipse from lunar orbit (03:54–04:16).

• Public Perception & Inspiration:

  • Media coverage and stunning photos rekindle public interest, though awareness may not match the Apollo days (04:16–05:06).
  • The crew’s charm and interviews help to “capture the world’s attention and inspire” (05:01–05:06).

• Mission Purpose:

  • No moon landing yet—this is a “dress rehearsal” for future landings; Artemis 4 is scheduled to attempt a touchdown in 2028 (05:21–05:58).
  • Unlike Apollo’s “flags and footprints,” the Artemis program aims for sustainability and lays groundwork for living on the moon and, potentially, Mars (05:58–06:27).

The New Space Race: Stakes and Strategy

• Shift from Cold War to Competition and Opportunity:

  • Artemis is less about beating an opponent and more about learning from the moon and securing resources, but international competition (especially with China) still plays a role (06:31–07:46).
  • One key motivator is lunar ice—water that could become rocket fuel, drinking water, and enable deeper space missions (07:46–09:00).

• Technological Rivalries:

  • NASA’s lunar landing ambitions now depend on private companies; a parallel “space race” unfolds between SpaceX and Blue Origin (09:07–09:56).

• No U.S.-China Collaboration:

  • Legal barriers (Wolf Amendment) prevent NASA-China cooperation, reinforcing a competitive rather than collaborative era (09:56–10:42).

• Budget Tensions:

  • Even as Artemis inspires, U.S. political debates threaten science budgets, though Congress tends to restore NASA’s funding (10:42–12:04).

When Nature Calls: The Unsung Space Challenge

• The Artemis 2 Toilet—A New Kind of First:

  • The mission carries the first real toilet to lunar orbit—a crucial step for future, longer missions (17:04–17:15).
  • Apollo-era astronauts relied on adhesive bags, resulting in indignities and memorable mishaps (18:11–19:56).
    • “Who did it? Who did what?... There’s a turd floating through the air.” — Apollo 10 crew transcript, quoted by Sean and K.R. Calloway (19:47–19:56).

• Evolving Technology:

  • NASA’s new Universal Waste Management System (the “Artemis toilet”) is akin to an airplane toilet—vacuum-powered with personal funnels, built for privacy and hygiene (21:10–22:07).
    • “Going to the bathroom without the aid of gravity, without water to collect the waste, it's harder than you would think.” — Lauren Grosch (21:33).

• Persistent Space Plumbing Troubles:

  • Even cutting-edge toilets malfunction: Artemis 2’s experienced fan failures and “ice” blockages, requiring astronaut-plumbers (23:30–25:12).
    • “Houston, we have a problem—a potty problem.” — Sean Rameswaram (23:50).

• Why It Matters

  • Waste management, though mundane, is vital for morale, health, and extending mission duration—making the moon (and Mars) habitats more “homelike” (25:26–26:41).
    • “If you can’t figure out the facilities, you’re never going to figure out Mars.” — Sean Rameswaram (26:38).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We call amazing things that humans do ‘moonshots’ for a reason." — Sean Rameswaram (02:14)

• “They will be breaking records left and right, and they will be taking images and seeing with their own eyes parts of the moon’s far side that no humans have ever seen before.” — Lauren Grosch (02:27)

• “Artemis 2 is an elaborate dress rehearsal for the moon landing to come.” — Lauren Grosch (05:21)

• “One of the reasons that the moon has become so attractive...in recent years we have discovered that the moon is not so much this barren planet...there are large quantities of...water in the form of ice on the moon.” — Lauren Grosch (07:46)

• “I used to want to be the first man to Mars. This has convinced me that if we got to go on Apollo, I ain’t interested.” — Ken Mattingly, quoted by K.R. Calloway (20:36)

• “Going to the bathroom without the aid of gravity, without water to collect the waste, it's harder than you would think.” — Lauren Grosch (21:33)

• “Houston, we have a problem—a potty problem.” — Sean Rameswaram (23:50)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:54] — Introduce Artemis 2: Closest lunar flyby, crew milestones
• [05:21] — Artemis’ mission: Not landing, but prepping for future moonbases
• [06:31] — Contrast with Apollo, political context, China’s lunar ambitions
• [07:46] — Water on the moon and its importance
• [09:07] — Private contractor “landership race” (SpaceX vs. Blue Origin)
• [10:42] — NASA’s funding struggles
• [17:00] — Toilet talk: Why sanitation matters for space missions
• [18:11] — Apollo’s crude waste-management methods
• [21:10] — What the Artemis 2 toilet looks like and how it works
• [23:30] — Artemis toilet malfunctions, astronaut-plumbers
• [25:26] — The big picture: Why toilets are crucial to going further in space

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Tone and Takeaway

This episode mixes awe at humanity’s technological feats with grounded (and often hilarious) reminders that even in space, it comes down to basic human needs. As Lauren Grosch notes, “We're going back to the freaking moon.” But as K.R. Calloway, Lauren, and Sean point out, if we ever hope to build lasting bases or travel to Mars, we have to solve life’s most elemental problems first—starting with the humble toilet.

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For listeners or readers catching up:
This episode is both a celebration of cosmic ambition and an exploration of the messy, human side of spaceflight—reminding us that even in a “moonshot,” astronauts are people first.

Transcript

[Sean Ramis]

Happy Easter to all who celebrate. Let's see what the President had to say. Early Easter Sunday morning

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[Sean Ramis]

will be power plant day and bridge day all wrapped up in one in Iran, there will be nothing like it. Open the fucking straight, you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. Just watch. Praise be to Allah. President Donald J. Trump. Wow. I guess he was our first Muslim president all along. Let's see what message our astronauts up in space had for us this Easter. I think as we go into Easter Sunday, thinking about, you know, all the cultures all around the world, whether you celebrate it or not, whether you believe in God or not, this is an opportunity for us to remember where we are, who we are, and that we are the same thing, and that we gotta get through this together. Space seems like a nicer place to be right now. So we're gonna talk about a historic day for the human race on Today. Explore. Where does President Trump's speech leave us with regard to where the war is headed? And it really was, to me, the story of the commander in chief who, weeks into this war, is deeply uncertain about how it ends. I'm John Finer, co host of the Long Game podcast. This week, Jake Sullivan and I break down the President's speech and discuss what it's like to negotiate with the Iranians. We will also debate whether Iran should accept a deal. The episode is out now. Search and follow the Long Game wherever you get your podcasts. Three, two, one. Booster ignition. And it's today Explained. I'm Sean Ramis here. I'm here with Lauren Grosch, the global space reporter at Bloomberg. And, Lauren, we have you here because today is a historic day for global space travel. I guess technically it's a historic day for humanity. What's happening in space today, you could

[Lauren Grosch]

say for universal space travel. It's a big day, Right?

[Sean Ramis]

There you go.

[Lauren Grosch]

Yes, today is pretty much the day we've all been waiting for when it comes to the Artemis 2 mission. The crew of four astronauts on the mission will be making their closest approach to the moon as they fly by it.

[Sean Ramis]

There is nothing normal about this. Sending four humans 250,000 miles away is a herculean effort, and we are now just realizing the gravity of that. You know, we call amazing things that humans do moonshots for a reason.

[Lauren Grosch]

They will be breaking records left and right, and they will be taking images and seeing with their own eyes parts of the moon's far side that no humans have ever seen before. So it's a pretty exciting day for A space nerd like me.

[Sean Ramis]

Let's talk about the records that are being broken left and right. Which are they?

[Lauren Grosch]

So as of the time of this recording, they haven't done it yet. But maybe by the time that you, the audience listens, they will have surpassed the record for the farthest any human has traveled into space. The previous record was set by Apollo 13 at a whopping 248,655 miles from Earth. And they will be passing that record to become the farthest traveled humans that have ever lived.

[K.R. Calloway]

We are not necessarily a crew that lives on superlatives, but it is a milestone that's important. It's important.

[Lauren Grosch]

And then the crew itself is a very special crew in my opinion. Christina Koch will be the first woman to have reached the moon.

[K.R. Calloway]

For me, sleeping in space is one of the most comfortable ways to sleep.

[Lauren Grosch]

Victor Glover is the first black astronaut to have reached the moon.

[Sean Ramis]

I can really see Earth as one

[Lauren Grosch]

thing and Jeremy Hansen is the first Canadian to do so.

[Sean Ramis]

Allez ver la lune servo les la lune. It's a prawn and grandequip.

[Lauren Grosch]

And then on top of it all, they'll also get to see an eclipse when they pass the moon. The sun will be passing behind the moon and they'll get to study the sun's corona. Not a record, but certainly something very cool. So it's just an exciting day for a number of reasons.

[Sean Ramis]

Do people out there know all of this history is being made today? Do they care the way they might have cared 50 years ago with the Apollo missions?

[Lauren Grosch]

I think that maybe now there is definitely more awareness. I was a little struck leading up to this launch. I felt like maybe it hadn't really entered the public consciousness until maybe the day or two before. I think now with the imagery coming down and the spectacular photos that are being taken from space of Earth and the moon, and then also just the really delightful and charming interviews with the crew.

[Sean Ramis]

I really like it up here. I wish I could have got here sooner.

[Lauren Grosch]

And they really know just how to capture the world's attention and to inspire.

[Sean Ramis]

Of course, NASA didn't spend billions of dollars to send these astronauts up to the moon for like, good vibes. There is intent here and long term planning going on for people who haven't yet heard. What is the mission here?

[Lauren Grosch]

Right. Yeah, we've had to remind folks that there's no landing on the moon during this mission. It's just a flyby. Fly me 4,000 miles from the moon. The way I like to describe it is that Artemis 2 is an elaborate dress rehearsal for the moon landing to come. Artemis 2 is one step in a larger goal to one day get back to the moon and land. Assuming this mission is a success, NASA is hoping to schedule that landing for 2028.

[Sean Ramis]

Artemis 4 will then attempt a touchdown on the moon in 2028, along with a second possible landing.

[Lauren Grosch]

So the Artemis program is all about sending humans back to the moon, just like the predecessor Apollo program. But this time, we don't want to just land flags and footprints. We want to stay. We want to learn how to set base on the Moon and learn how to live sustainably and what it takes to live off of the surface of another planet and then use those applications for potentially going and living on Mars someday.

[Sean Ramis]

And how does that differ from like, earlier moon missions?

[Lauren Grosch]

Well, the first moon missions, you know, for those who know their history, were all about beating the Soviet Union to be the first one to put humans on the surface of the moon. And that was a very effective motivator. Right. It became a matter of national security. And it really informed exactly why we were going there, what we wanted to do when we got there. Now, with this mission or with this program, the long term goal is very much more about what can we learn about the Moon and living off the Moon and how can we apply that to future missions down the road. Now, that said, I won't pretend like there isn't another international dominance component. Obviously, lawmakers have been involved invoking China a lot recently as to why we need to get back to the moon very quickly.

[Sean Ramis]

China wants to go to the moon by 2030. And I'll tell you, if we wake up and turn on the TV and we see China on the moon, if they've beaten us to the moon, if they seize the prime strategic real estate on the Moon, I think that moment would be worse than Sputnik and is part of what's different now as well, that we want to, like, mine the Moon.

[Lauren Grosch]

Yeah, you laugh, but it is part of it. So one of the reasons that the Moon has become so attractive as a destination in the current era is that in recent years we have discovered that the Moon is not so much this barren planet that we thought it was and that in fact there are large quantities of what we think are water in the form of ice on the Moon. And if that's the case, that opens up a lot of interest possibilities if we are able to access that water. So, for instance, a big one that is used a lot is mining that water and then breaking it apart into its components, hydrogen and oxygen, which are the components of rocket fuel, of propellant. And so that's why mining this water becomes really attractive, because then we could use that to fuel rockets off of the moon and then go deeper into space. And then there are other uses for it, too, such as, you know, treating it to become drinking water or just water in general for a lunar base. There's all sorts of applications, but the rocket propellant is a big one.

[Sean Ramis]

So is the United States winning this new space race against China? In light of what we're accomplishing today,

[Lauren Grosch]

I can say that when it comes to landing, we still have quite a long way to go in order to get the technology that we need to put humans on the lunar surface. So NASA has tapped SpaceX and Blue Origin to develop lunar landers to take humans down to the surface. And both of those landers are quite complex.

[Sean Ramis]

This week, SpaceX finally revealed their plans for America's next moon lander, the starship hls. Blue Origin was part of a group that initially proposed a design that had separate descent, ascent, and transfer units.

[Lauren Grosch]

Whichever company is ready first will be the one to do the landing. And so that kind of. Now we have. Not only do we have a space race between us and China, now we also have a little bit of a space race between rifles, SpaceX and Blue Origin.

[Sean Ramis]

Why not work together with China, you know, in the name of advancing, like, human space exploration? Have we just not gotten there yet, where it's like, you know, in the name of humanity?

[Lauren Grosch]

We have not gotten there yet. There's also something called the Wolf Amendment that is used a lot. It was passed in 2011, and that actually forbids us from cooperating with China. Yes, exactly.

[Sean Ramis]

Quite the opposite.

[Lauren Grosch]

Yes. It's definitely something I think a lot of people would like to see. But I think when it comes to just the, you know, the ideals of both the United States and China, that that's just not in the cards.

[Sean Ramis]

This is all happening, all this history being made, all this moon business, while here on Earth, literally at this moment, there's like a fight over NASA's budget. Is that gonna hold us back in any way?

[Lauren Grosch]

Yes. So the irony, of course, is that, you know, last week the President's budget request came out. They hope to slash the science budget by roughly one half, but at the same time, there would be this increase for the Artemis budget, because they do seem very jazzed about sending people back to the moon.

[Sean Ramis]

So not just setting up America to return to the moon, but to build

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[Sean Ramis]

base so that our astronauts can stay and pursue the scientific and economic opportunities on the lunar surface.

[Lauren Grosch]

The thing that I'm keeping tabs on though is that Congress pretty much rejected most of the cuts that were proposed by the White House and did a good job of restoring most of NASA's budget. So I, I'm, you know, I'm thinking that will probably happen again.

[Sean Ramis]

Do you think the fact that all this history's being made and it all seems pretty positive for NASA will help?

[Lauren Grosch]

Absolutely. I think you've just seen the joy that has come from the astronauts faces and them seeing the moon and getting closer to the moon, you know, that is really palpable. And I can feel it when they're doing their interviews and talking to NASA's mission control. And I feel like I'm noticing the world soaking that in as well. So I can only imagine that people will have a better understanding of what NASA is doing moving forward than they did before.

[K.R. Calloway]

My most exciting thing is I will see Faraka launch into space because I'm

[Lauren Grosch]

so obsessed with space. We're going back to the freaking moon. That's why

[Sean Ramis]

Lauren forgot to mention one other historic aspect of this Artemis 2 mission. It's the bathroom. Once we return from the break. Foreign.

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[Lauren Grosch]

Christ, what's up?

[Sean Ramis]

No more waste dumps. We're just gonna have to store it today explained.

[K.R. Calloway]

My name is K.R. calloway and I write for Scientific American.

[Sean Ramis]

And we invited you here on the program today because you wrote about one specific element of this Artemis 2 mission that is inarguably historic. Tell us about it.

[K.R. Calloway]

Yeah. So if you're going to do longer missions and eventually, potentially even have a base on the moon or go even further onto Mars, you first need to figure out what are you going to be doing for food, for water, and also for peeing and pooping on the spacecraft and on the surface. So this mission, Artemis 2, is going to be the first time that a toilet is sent to the moon. This is definitely history making. So back in the 60s and 70s,

[Sean Ramis]

we choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other thing. Liftoff. We have a liftoff. Liftoff on Apollo 11. Apollo 11 was man's first attempt to go to the moon, to land there, and to return to Earth.

[K.R. Calloway]

So Apollo used these bags. They had, you know, different ones for peeing, different ones for pooping, but it was still essentially a bag that you would take onto your body and just go. It obviously didn't provide a lot of privacy. We aren't talking like going into a room with a door and doing this. Even this was just done in the cabin. And it was not super user friendly either.

[Sean Ramis]

In the absence of a system providing positive means for the removal of feces from the body, an extremely basic system had to be relied upon for in flight fecal collection. The device used was a plastic bag which was taped to the buttocks to capture feces after defecation. The crew member was required to seal the bag and knead it in order to mix a liquid bactericide with the contents to provide the desired degree of feces stabilization.

[K.R. Calloway]

They had a lot of issues with leaks. You know, it's just an adhesive. It can become unstuck and in low gravity, that can be a big problem for particles escaping.

[Sean Ramis]

The principal problem with both the urine and fecal collection systems was the fact that these required more manipulation than crewmen were used to in the Earth environment and were, as a consequence, found to be objectionable.

[K.R. Calloway]

I had a lot of fun going through the Apollo mission transcripts and just looking at all of the ways the astronauts were describing this after use. They were pretty upset about it during the Apollo 10 mission. That's one of the more notable ones. They said, who did it?

[Sean Ramis]

Who did what? Who did it? Give me. Where did that come from? Give me a napkin. Click, there's a turd. Please. I Didn't do it any more.

[K.R. Calloway]

There's a turd floating through the air. So they had to kind of wrangle that themselves. And even before that, they were having issues. During Apollo 8, there was another pretty notable mission. Where a crew member was ill. And so the other crew members were chasing down these blobs of both vomit and feces. That were just floating wildly through the cabin.

[Sean Ramis]

And one of the astronauts you quote in your piece was Ken Mattingly, whose name people might be familiar with from the Apollo 13 mission. And of course, the Apollo 13. Jack. Give me a read back on that last procedure. Stand by, Ken.

[K.R. Calloway]

This was actually one of my favorite quotes that I came across while I was going through the mission transcripts. This is something that Ken Mattingly said on Apollo 16, which is that I used to want to be the first man to Mars. This has convinced me that if we got to go on Apollo, I ain't interested.

[Sean Ramis]

As in, this whole toilet situation is so insufferable. I maybe don't really want to spend too much time in space anymore.

[K.R. Calloway]

Exactly.

[Sean Ramis]

So NASA, I imagine, after all the Apollo missions, realizes it needs to advance this technology. How does it do?

[K.R. Calloway]

So I spoke to Melissa McKinley over at NASA. She is the head of the toilet project. This is the Universal Waste Management System is their kind of technical name. Though I've been assured that just toilet is okay to say. And she mentioned that everything that's happened from the 60s and 70s to now. Has really been a feat of engineering and design.

[Lauren Grosch]

Going to the bathroom without the aid of gravity, without water to collect the waste. It's harder than you would think. So we use airflow to help entrain the waste into packaging to collect it. And help the crew member deposit the waste away from their bodies.

[K.R. Calloway]

They've been able to implement kind of a vacuum system that uses airflow to pull particles down. Instead of just having them float through space. And relying on you to seal the bag yourself and keep everything in.

[Sean Ramis]

Help me picture what it looks like. Because I'm guessing it does not look like any toilet in one of our homes.

[K.R. Calloway]

It definitely looks more like an airplane toilet is how I would describe it. So the toilet has a seat. And it has a funnel on the side for collecting urine. And everyone gets their own separate piece to attach for the part that actually would touch your skin, luckily. Oh, for the toilet itself. It's pretty loud in there.

[Lauren Grosch]

We actually use a vacuum system. So imagine if you have a vacuum

[K.R. Calloway]

cleaner and you're sucking things down.

[Lauren Grosch]

We turn on a big fan.

[K.R. Calloway]

So that's pulling everything down into the toilet. All of this wild orange foam is actually taped over insulation. Because our toilet is a little bit on the loud side. Astronauts have to wear hearing protection, and they also have handles to hold onto because you're working in no gravity or low gravity. And, yeah, you need a little bit of help to stay in the right position.

[Sean Ramis]

So these aren't plastic bags anymore. Where's this stuff going? Are we just shooting it out into space?

[K.R. Calloway]

We are partially shooting it out into space for urine. It is collected, and then it's going to be vented a couple of times. It's going to be kind of a controlled process. And so it will be just a lot of liquid at once. But, yeah, that is where the urine is going.

[Sean Ramis]

And yet all this testing, all this hype about this new toilet, and one of the first stories we get once the astronauts are, I think, up in Earth's orbit is that something has gone wrong with the toilet. What happened?

[K.R. Calloway]

So already the toilet has had a few issues. It's kind of the equivalent of a plumbing issue. But for space Houston, we have a

[Sean Ramis]

problem, a potty problem.

[K.R. Calloway]

Okay, Christina, we're ready for you to

[Sean Ramis]

attempt reactivation of toilet by removing.

[K.R. Calloway]

When they were trying to use it on one of the early days of the mission, they found that there was an error. So the issue ended up being with the fan that helps to get the airflow to help with the urine collection. So kind of a big problem. And luckily, with ground control support, one of the astronauts, Christina Cook, was actually able to fix this almost immediately after it had happened. I'm the space plumber. I'm proud to call myself the space plumber. I like to say that it is

[Lauren Grosch]

probably the most important piece of equipment on board.

[Sean Ramis]

Okay. The latest I heard over the weekend is that they had toilet trouble again. So maybe not the best plan to have your astronauts also be your plumbers. What's the latest on this very expensive, very important toilet?

[K.R. Calloway]

Yeah, so it did seem to break again over the weekend. From what the NASA people were saying, it seems like it's kind of the same problem again with the urine collection system. The engineers have looked into it a little bit more deeply, and they think that it might be ice blocking the tube that would help fully collect the urine.

[Sean Ramis]

Blame ice.

[K.R. Calloway]

Yeah, Astronauts have reported issues with that system collection, and then also a smell coming from the toilet area. So, yeah, definitely a problem that they say they're going to just keep working on.

[Sean Ramis]

This whole toilet thing can feel sort of inconsequential considering what we're really doing up there in space exploration, making history, trying to get to Mars one day, all the rest. But why is the toilet on the space shuttle important?

[K.R. Calloway]

So one of NASA's goals with this particular toilet is that it's a modular design, which means that they can put it not just in the Artemis 2 capsule, but they can also put it in a lot of different space vehicles. They could potentially even adapt it to be on a Mars mission. And longer term missions, they can adapt it so that they can kind of do what the ISS does in terms of liquid recycling and make longer term, more sustainable missions possible. So even though it seems very mundane to us as just like something that you use every day, a toilet for being in space, it's actually one of the key things that stands in the way of making space more homelike and more able to be a place where we can do longer term science.

[Sean Ramis]

If you can't figure out the facilities, you're never going to figure out Mars.

[K.R. Calloway]

Exactly.

[Sean Ramis]

Peter Malinon Rosen produced the program today. Aminah Al Saadi edited, Patrick Boyd and David Tadashore mixed and Gabriel Donatov and Andrea Lopez crusado fact checked the show. It's Andrea's last day at Today explained, at least for now. We hope to see her again out there in time and space. Congratulations on a great run. I think is the Andrea thing to say in a moment like.

[Lauren Grosch]

Sam.