Who's afraid of teen takeovers?

Summary

Today, Explained — "Who's afraid of teen takeovers?"

Release Date: April 27, 2026
Hosts: Hadi Mawaghdi, Thaddeus Johnson
Guest: Jenny Gathrite (Washington Post Reporter)
Summary by [your summarizer name]

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Today, Explained dives into the phenomenon of “teen takeovers”—large, often impromptu gatherings of teenagers in urban spaces that sometimes end in rowdy behavior or even violence. The conversation centers on Washington, D.C., but connects to a growing trend reported in cities like Detroit, Chicago, Jacksonville, and Los Angeles. Hosts and guests analyze the causes, law enforcement and civic responses, and what these events reveal about broader debates over youth, safety, and public space.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Are Teen Takeovers?

[02:09 – 04:40]

• Organization: Jenny Gathrite explains that these takeovers are organized through social media, especially Instagram, using flyers and large group chats. (“There are flyers on Instagram... Large Instagram DM chains.” — Jenny Gathrite, 02:18)
• Motivation: Not all teens attending are looking for trouble. Many simply want to meet peers, make friends, and have fun in a space where they aren’t excluded due to age restrictions at clubs, etc.
• Quote:

  “You get a new community. Long story short, like you create new bonds with new people.” — Teen attendee (Thaddeus Johnson), 05:58

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2. Trouble at Takeovers: When Public Safety Is at Risk

[03:50 – 06:53]

• Incidents: While most gatherings are peaceful, some escalate into violence, robberies, or property crime. Police and local officials have heightened concerns after recent events, including gunfire at one takeover (though no one was injured).
• Quote:

  “Make no mistake, these teen takeovers are dangerous.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 04:14

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3. Complexity: Teens Are Not a Monolith

[05:33 – 06:53]

• Not all attendees are seeking conflict. Some show up to socialize while others might be drawn to chaos or act out, but violence isn’t inevitable, even in large gatherings.
• Teens themselves describe unwanted conflict as “unacceptable but maybe inevitable” in large crowds.

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4. City Response: Curfew Policies and Enforcement

[07:30 – 09:31]

• Curfews: D.C. responded with temporary curfew zones for youth under 18, especially targeting areas where takeovers are expected, prohibiting groups of more than eight minors and allowing dispersal after 8 p.m.
• Effectiveness Questioned: Teens often see curfews as ineffective, with some saying enforcement only intensifies their resistance.

  “There’s no point in having the curfew, for real, for real. Because they gonna stay out here anyway.” — Teen attendee (Thaddeus Johnson), 08:50

• Mixed Results: Officials claim curfews help disperse gatherings and prevent escalation, while critics argue they may create tense standoffs or simply move the problem.

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5. Alternatives: Giving Kids Something to Do

[09:42 – 11:09]

• City Initiatives: DC’s Department of Parks and Recreation offers events like “Late Night Hype” and “Teen Spring Jams,” praised for engaging thousands of teens with music, games, and safe spaces.
• Challenges: Even with positive feedback, incidents sometimes occur, and such alternatives rarely carry the organic appeal or edge of self-organized “takeovers.”

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6. Philosophical & Social Issues Underlying the Debate

[11:09 – 13:10]

• These events force cities to confront bigger questions:
  • Who controls public space?
  • The racial, class, and age dynamics at play
  • The role of law enforcement in young people’s lives
• Quote:

  “It gets at issues of public space, issues of race, issues of class, issues of sort of who has the right to occupy space in a city.” — Jenny Gathrite, 11:44

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Part Two: Perspectives on Juvenile Crime & Policy

7. Teen Takeovers: An Old Story in New Packaging

[17:18 – 19:40]

• Historical Cycles: Thaddeus Johnson, a former cop and criminal justice professor, notes, “Nothing’s new under the sun.” Large, unruly teenage gatherings have always caused worry, but social media amplifies visibility and scale.
• Fear & Moral Panic: There’s a longstanding “moral panic” around juvenile crime, often more alarming because of perceptions that teens are impulsive or particularly risky.
• Quote:

  “There is, has been a long time fear of juvenile offenders and crime in general that, you know, we shouldn’t minimize or either sensationalize.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 18:57

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8. Do Curfews and Crackdowns Work?

[19:40 – 21:32]

• Johnson is skeptical about curfews, calling them “lazy” or merely symbolic policies:

  “Oftentimes when I see people just immediately going to curfews ... perhaps that’s lazy. ... We shouldn’t lean into it and rely on it.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 19:56

• Little evidence exists that curfews reduce crime long-term; they may provide short-term order but don’t address root causes.

---

9. Real Solutions: Prevention, Opportunity, and Shared Responsibility

[21:32 – 23:20]

• Safe Passage Programs: Strategic adult presence in “hot spots” to encourage safe travel to and from schools.
• Jobs and Engagement: Youth jobs, especially beyond summer, and meaningful activities that offer agency and identity.
• Collective Effort: Blaming parents or police alone won’t work. It “takes a village,” with government, schools, families, and communities sharing responsibility.
• Quote:

  “Let’s find the beauty in salvaging lives and not destroying them.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 22:57

---

10. Why Official Activities Don’t Always Compete

[25:27 – 27:19]

• City-sponsored activities are often “whack” (boring, out of touch).
• Authentic teen involvement in planning is key; events need buy-in from the youth they aim to serve, not just adults.
• Quote:

  “Anything that does not involve them, that their peers don’t endorse and sign off on, we’ve already lost.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 26:24

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[Teen takeovers] are planned on social media... Large Instagram DM chains.” — Jenny Gathrite, 02:18
• “A lot of people don’t get together like this because you got the clubs 21 up... So what we do is we actually get everybody to come together... create new bonds with new people.” — Teen attendee, 05:58
• “The curfew, I’m not gonna lie. There’s no point in having the curfew, for real, for real. Because they gonna stay out here anyway.” — Teen attendee, 08:50
• “It gets at issues of public space, issues of race, issues of class, issues of ... who has the right to occupy space in a city.” — Jenny Gathrite, 11:44
• “Nothing’s new under the sun, right? Things may take different versions ... but it’s pretty much in principle very similar.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 18:08
• “You need to have things like the safe passage program... It appears to keep juveniles safer.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 21:32
• “Let’s find the beauty in salvaging lives and not destroying them.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 22:57
• “We have to involve them. ... Anything that does not involve them, that their peers don’t endorse and sign off on, we’ve already lost.” — Thaddeus Johnson, 26:24

---

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:09 – 06:53 | How takeovers are organized; motivations of attendees; risks and realities
• 07:30 – 09:31 | City curfew response, effectiveness, and consequences
• 09:42 – 11:09 | Parks department alternatives: Late Night Hype, Teen Spring Jams
• 11:09 – 13:10 | Philosophical questions; who controls public space
• 17:18 – 19:40 | Historical context and moral panic over youth
• 19:40 – 22:57 | Curfews and their limits, broader prevention strategies
• 25:27 – 27:19 | Why city alternatives often fail to match self-organized peer events

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Conclusion

The episode underscores that “teen takeovers” are a modern iteration of an old story: youth seeking their place in the city and adult fear about what that means. Responses like curfew and heightened enforcement may bring order but rarely address root causes or build trust. Real solutions lie in collaboration—engaging youth, supporting families, and sustained community investment. Yet, the conversation closes without clear answers, reflecting the episode’s core message: there are no easy fixes, but understanding, empathy, and dialogue are essential.

---

For a nuanced, on-the-ground view of what teen takeovers mean and what real solutions might look like, this episode is a must-listen for parents, policymakers, and anyone who cares about community life and youth in American cities.

Transcript

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Okay.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Today explained Sean Ramis for him here in Washington, D.C. where the biggest story over the weekend was the guy with the gun at the dinner with the president, big crime. And we're gonna talk more about that on the show tomorrow. But on the show today, we're gonna talk about smaller crimes here in Washington. Have you heard about the teen takeovers? A ton of teenagers get together in a corner of the city on, say, a Saturday night. And there's good times, but also, inevitably, there's shenanigans. Police say nearly two people were involved Saturday night.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Two robberies were reported.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Someone fired off gunshots in the air.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

If some of these kids need to spend a night or two in jail in order to feel that there are repercussions to their actions, then so be it.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

It's not just a D.C. thing, though. Teen takeovers have been happening in Detroit, Chicago, Jacksonville, Los Angeles. So on the show today, we're gonna ask what's to be done when summer's around the corner and the kids just wanna have fun, but also there's some petty larceny and property damage.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

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[Hadi Mawaghdi]

think Today explained this?

[Thaddeus Johnson]

I don't know.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Jenny Gatherite is a Washington Post reporter who writes about the nation's capital. We asked her how exactly a teen takeover happens in the first place.

[Jenny Gathrite]

They're planned on social media, mostly Instagram is what I'm told. And what we see, flyers on Instagram.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Flyers?

[Jenny Gathrite]

Yeah, they're flyers on Instagram. You know, sometimes there'll be like, join this group chat for the. For the location or location will be posted later. Large Instagram DM chains. So that's a lot of how this is organized. And, you know, there are some young people in the area who kind of fashion themselves up and coming promoters because of the way they're able to attract large crowds to their gatherings.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

All right, I'm pulling up one of these ads right now. I'm very excited to see what it looks like because, like, what are they advertising? Okay, so it looks, first and foremost, it looks like it was made using AI. Okay, this first one looking at says link up at U Street. There's like fire, cartoony fire in the top, left and right corners and then an image of U Street, but also cartoony 5pm till whenever. Pull up and be hyped. 100 emoji, find your age, link with the crew and get turned up. Music emoji, dance vibe and shake some ass. Good energy only. If you ain't coming to turn up, stay home. Okay. This doesn't necessarily sound chaotic or, or like, I don't know, illegal, but what happens at these takeovers that's troubling cities like D.C. so much?

[Jenny Gathrite]

So what's brought the trouble for local officials like the mayor, the police chief, the D.C. council is that in some cases, the takeovers have ended in some kind of violence.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Mm. Before you knew it, there was, you know, 20 National Guards and a lot of MPD and Metro Police that were out kind of pushing them to one way or kids were running one direction or another.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Make no mistake, these teen takeovers are dangerous.

[Jenny Gathrite]

They are violent, and they end up

[Thaddeus Johnson]

in fighting assaults, robberies. Businesses are impacted.

[Jenny Gathrite]

By the time they get into a large group at the Navy Yard or someplace else, there is already danger.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

There is no law against loitering. There is no law against congregating in different areas. The piece that I have to focus on is the violent behavior.

[Jenny Gathrite]

There are some robberies, either young people robbing other young people who are around or stealing from cars. There was one case in March where one of the so called takeovers ended in gunfire. No one was hit, but a teenager was arrested for firing shots. And so that is really what has brought up a lot of the concern for people like the mayor, the police chief, and the officials who are responsible for public safety in the city. The government can do its part, the police can do its community can do its part, and families have to do their part to keep their young people safe and engaged.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Hmm.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

So you went to one. Did you get the sense there that people were coming to, like, wreak havoc, or did you get the sense that, you know, when you put this many teenagers together in one place, there's bound to be some shenanigans or something in between or what?

[Jenny Gathrite]

Maybe it's something in between. I mean, it's hard to say, right, because teens are not a monolith. And so, you know, I spoke to young people who were older teens, 18, 19, who had come to the so called takeover and who had been to several. And they said, you know, they were not there for drama. They were not there to try to cause violence. They were genuinely there to try to meet other people their age and have a good time.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

A lot of people don't get together like this because you got the clubs 21 up, man, you know what I'm saying? The adults could go out and have fun on the weekends and enjoy themselves. So what we do is we actually get everybody to come together or try to get everybody to come together, enjoy themselves, you know what I'm saying? Have a little fun, get outside, you know what I'm saying? Basically, you get a new community. Long story short, like you create new bonds with new people. Like the person I was just with, I didn't know him at first, but now we. That's like my brother. So it's like you can't just be on your phone making new friends or thinking you making friends with people your age whole time. It could be somebody older. This way we connecting with each other in person without no screens.

[Jenny Gathrite]

Like we having fun, having a blast, you know. They described some of the violence as unacceptable, but in some cases maybe inevitable when you have such a large group of people that maybe there will be a few who will act up or some people who come with some kind of intent to cause trouble, drama everywhere,

[Thaddeus Johnson]

you know what I'm saying? You can't avoid the drama. Best way to do it, stay out of trouble, you know what I'm saying? A lot of people don't like a lot of people. Regardless where there is, there's always going to be some type of drama, some type of conflict. Try to trust in the young people to try to handle it a certain way. Because it has been a couple of takeovers where there was violence or about to be violence and it was stopped in its tracks.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Which makes a complex issue to deal with from the city's standpoint. Right, because kids want to get together on the weekend since, I don't know, the dawn of time. But if you put a lot of kids together on the weekend, something might happen. How's the city responding?

[Jenny Gathrite]

Yeah, so the city has responded in a few ways. One of the major and most publicized responses has been this curfew policy. And so what we saw that was very successful when we implemented the curfew over the last year was that that parents got the message. It's a tool for parents, too. The parents can say, you can't go there because there's a curfew. The city, at the urging of Mayor Bowser and a couple council members, has put in place a policy where young people under the age of 18 are forbidden from gathering in groups of more than eight in certain designated places that the police chief can choose and set a temporary, more intense curfew zone in advance of what they see as a planned takeover. Right. So if the police chief sees one of these flyers and gets this sense that young people are slated to gather in Navy Yard, they will often declare a special curfew zone in Navy Yard that forbids teens from gathering in groups and gives police the ability to disperse them if it, you know, the clock hits eight and there are more than eight young people in that space.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Does the curfew actually work? Because when I speak to teenagers in my neighborhood about this curfew, most of them say they're just going to violate it.

[Jenny Gathrite]

Yeah, I mean, it's been really challenging to measure. I'm not sure that I have a way of measuring what would have happened if not for the curfew.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

The curfew, I'm not gonna lie. There's no point in having the curfew. For real. For real. Because they gonna stay out here anyway. Like, honestly, us being at Banneker, we wouldn't even wanna stay here alone. Eight o', clock, everybody was leaving. But now, since the police here and interacting with certain kids and doing and saying certain stuff, it's making it more like, now we are going to. To stay. Now we are going to do this and that.

[Jenny Gathrite]

The mayor and the police chief insist that it's been a useful tool and say that these gatherings would get more out of hand if they weren't able to disperse them earlier in the night or break them up. But there are some curfew detractors who argue that it kind of has created this tense space in Navy Yard around the curfew where young people repeatedly return.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

There's also something else going on here, right. To address this teen takeover thing. It isn't just curfew and more law enforcement and stricter policies. It's also like, let's give them something else to do.

[Jenny Gathrite]

Yeah. So One thing that DC's government has done is the Department of Parks and Recreation has been throwing and they've been doing this for a little while. I mean, they did a lot of this last summer as well with a series called Late Night Hype, where they kept the public pools open later and allowed teams to hang out there.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Were there flyers?

[Thaddeus Johnson]

They did.

[Jenny Gathrite]

They did make flyers for Late Night Hype. Actually, it was called Late Night Drip at the Pools. That's what it was called. Late Night Drip. Yes. I mean, I think it was a smart name. And then they had Teen Spring jams on the weekends that bookended spring break, where at rec centers, they hosted events with music, dancing, games, sports, and they actually said across two weekends, 6,000 teens attended the events.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Okay.

[Jenny Gathrite]

And, you know, a lot of people gave them a lot of praise for those events. I mean, there were some fights outside the events on the outskirts that, you know, led to some headlines about arrests of young people. There were definitely some issues surrounding them, but there was a lot of positive feedback from teens who attended the events and also from a lot of youth advocates who've been really critical of the city's curfew, but who pointed to the events as something good the city was doing to kind of create that space that teens had been asking for, which was basically a later night option where they could be around a lot of other people their age and also feel safe.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

This feels like something that really gets at people's core philosophies about criminal justice, about adolescence. I've seen people sharing videos of these teen takeovers in Navy Yard in D.C. and saying stuff like, wow, such an

[Jenny Gathrite]

impossible issue to deal with. What's the city gonna do?

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

And then someone will, like, respond, I

[Thaddeus Johnson]

know what they can do. Throw every one of these kids in jail.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

It ends up feeling much bigger than D.C. it feels like a sort of philosophical question about what to do about kids. Wild N Out.

[Jenny Gathrite]

Yeah. I mean, I think it cuts across a lot of different issues that get at people's emotions. It gets at issues of public space, issues of race, issues of class, issues of sort of who has the right to occupy space in a city. And also issues about, you know, policing the role of police in a city and the role of police with young people, and then also public safety and fear. I mean, a lot of what's motivating the mayor here is that she's worried that something really bad might happen at one of these. And of course, if something bad happened at one of these, people would be looking at her like, should you have done more?

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Another thing that occurs to me is that all the teen takeovers that have been happening this spring in D.C. were happening in the spring, but we're like a month away from all these kids having nothing to do all day.

[Jenny Gathrite]

Well, the mayor would push back strongly and it's nothing to do all day. I mean, her Department of Parks and Recreation has been advertising its slate of events and you know, all that they're doing with programming. But yes, we are headed towards summer, which is again, part of what's animating the debate and the tension around this. And, you know, some of the calls for, you know, more coordination and actual conversation about kind of what should be done next and how people, teens, adults, parents, government officials, business owners can all kind of get on the same page about what's the right approach here.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

And no clear answers yet.

[Jenny Gathrite]

No clear answers yet.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

We're gonna try and get some clarity when we're back on Today Explained.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

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[Hadi Mawaghdi]

You're listening to Today Explains. This is Is it Today Explain or Che Explains Explain? Duh. Explain. Duh. When I see these videos of these teen takeovers, which aren't happening terribly far from where I Live in Washington, D.C. i'm kind of thinking like, okay, this does look a little hectic. It does feel kind of new because so many of these kids are streaming it from the takeover. So many of these kids are because of social media. But then I also think this kind of feels like west side Story, the original.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Hey, you give me one good reason for not dragging you down the station

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

house or the Steven Spielberg remake. We ain't no delinquents. We're misunderstood. We asked Thaddeus Johnson what he makes of them. He's a former cop and a professor of criminal justice at Georgia State University.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Yeah, so, you know, I think about, first of all, I think about, you know, my grandma, right? Nothing's new under the sun, right? Things may take different versions. They may have different mechanisms or what have you, but it's pretty much in principle very similar. And you know, and I think, you know, when it comes to juvenile crime, think about terms like super offenders.

[Jenny Gathrite]

They are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called super predatory.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

No conscience, no empathy.

[Jenny Gathrite]

We can talk about why they ended

[Thaddeus Johnson]

up that way, but first we have

[Jenny Gathrite]

to bring them to heel.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

There's a moral panic for some reason around juveniles. I came out to walk the neighborhood just to see what was going on

[Jenny Gathrite]

and they are hiding in the bushes barking at me. They're being kids. They are doing 40 miles an hour.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

I'm crossing the street with my goddamn dog. These little pieces are shit. And whether people want to say is racialized or ageism involved, when you have a group of unsupervised kids who are being unruly, you think about juvenile crime. It's something that's a little bit more shocking to the system. So I think many times juvenile involved crime is actually, we're a little bit more fearful of that because they're so much more risk taking. They're so much more impulsive. I think it's not fully developed. They can be a little bit more dangerous because their rationale is different. I think there is, has been a long time fear of juvenile offenders and crime in general that, you know, we shouldn't minimize or either sensationalize.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

And of course, because these are minors cities, law enforcement can deal with them in a specific way, a specific tool they have, which they wouldn't have if these were adults, which is curfew laws. Do curfews work?

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Let me say, you know, oftentimes, and I have to be, you know, keep a balanced perspective. Oftentimes when I see people just immediately going to curfews and not just curfews and any other reactionary thing we see from our leaders in D.C. and all over, some could say that perhaps that's lazy. Governments are taking the easy way out when it comes to governing these things and not doing the harder work. But think about it. Part of the thing as a mayor is maintaining order. And so perhaps even though we don't see that it reduces crime, perhaps that we see concern the fact that it doesn't have any long term effects on keeping juveniles or communities safe. There's no real strong evidence that's showing that. But if you kind of read the tea leaves you think about, if I'm a citizen and I saw what happened in the navy yard, right, As a mayor, I cannot afford to do nothing So I can see it as a temporary, almost as a symbolic way of governing, maintaining order, but we shouldn't lean into it it and rely on it. So with juveniles, the best thing is prevention, right? And we can't expect that we're going to have 100% effectiveness in reforms of things that we do. It's also a suite of things and not one thing. So mind you, juvenile crime is a small portion of all over all crime. Right? So we can't afford to throw every resource and means at it. And it's also unfair to ask police to police us out of this. Right. Just like it's unfair to also throw it all on the parents. You know, these kids are our kids. And so first of all, I will work to try to change that thinking. So you need to have things like the safe passage program, which in some of our preliminary work we found that it works.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

When it comes to safe passage, we

[Thaddeus Johnson]

want to make sure that those kids that are 18 years and under get to and from school in a safe manner. We have identified target hot spots in the community where a lot of the

[Jenny Gathrite]

kids seem to conjugate and get into disputes.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

So we strategically place workers there to help motivate the kids to go home

[Jenny Gathrite]

safely, make sure they get on the

[Thaddeus Johnson]

buses, make sure that they don't have any disputes or fights at the bus stops in those local hospitals. We gonna speak to them, we gonna make sure they all right. You wanna make sure that their well being is paramount to them getting home. What we found is that it shows that it appears to keep juveniles safer. Particularly we know that juvenile crime doesn't happen in their home neighborhoods. And so first of all, we have to stop treating it like it's just a home community thing or where they live. It's about where they go. It's also providing activities for them and not things like midnight basketball because there's selection effect. The kids that were not going to get in trouble anyway are going to be the kids going to be at midnight basketball. The troublemakers are going to come very next trouble or go somewhere else. So we can't just lean on it. But things like jobs, it may be expanding juvenile jobs beyond the summer. Right? This is a capitalistic society and it really sucks not to have an economic identity. You have to help them get on a path in that way and treat them like people, but also understand that you all are still developing and need guidance. And so we have to make sure that we provide a village around these kids and you have carrots and sticks, hold them accountable but also give them a path out. And we just can't view this as a parent problem because their kids acting up on me. You're a bad parent or you don't care, you're probably struggling too. And so it's our responsibility to kind of help fill in. So enforce where enforcement needs to be at, but don't throw away the key. Let's find the beauty in salvaging lives and not destroying them.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Okay, so concepts like prevention, mediation, alternatives, activities. We've heard all of this coming out of COVID when kids were wilding out. We've heard about it earlier in the show. In terms of what DC's trying to do. What is it about this cocktail that works versus doesn't work? Because it sounds like stuff that is done. And yet here we have these teen takeovers and cities like D.C. seem a little paralyzed when it comes to solving it.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Well, you have to kind of forecast. I mean, you stay in a reaction mode, right? And you have to also be realistic, like, so having those events I think y' all had a few weekends ago after the takeover, they had like this family friendly event somewhere.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Eight, eight juveniles were arrested last night after several fights broke out. But picture this, all of the chaos happened at the same time. An event meant to provide a safe space for young people was underway.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

Crowds of kids waiting to get in. But several times fights broke out. Some teens wearing masks and hoodies jumped the gates and started fighting. And so one thing we have to be realistic and what is the realistic reduction in crime or what is the amount of crime that we expect as a benchmark before we can start considering whether we go? So we have to have some real issues. But it also, I mean, conversations, but also it has to be coordinated. But enforcement, accountability, opportunity supports centering the schools, centering the communities and the families. The research shows that that stuff works. And it can't be one shot in the dark. You have to be ready for 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years to make that investment. It's not just, you know, as soon as you stop making that investment, we're going to see things perhaps start to backslide. So we have to as a community, make sure that we're willing to invest the money. Does that mean increasing property taxes? I don't know, wherever you're at. But we have to have hard decisions about how we can make long term sustainable investments and not be interrupted by political appetite and things like that.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Do you think there's an issue here where, like if you're a kid scrolling Instagram and seeing you know, a flyer for a Teen Takeover or and it's next to a flyer for some city organized, I don't know, dance event, whatever it might be that the Teen Takeover just looks more fun. Like the kinds of events and alternatives provided by a city are never gonna look as good as the opportunity to just get wild with your friends in a park.

[Thaddeus Johnson]

No, I mean, you know, if, you know, this is even I think, you know, some of the school surveys done in D.C. by the Department of Ed there where they were talking to students. Right. And why are you all not engaged in after school programming, quote unquote. It's whack. It's not good, it's not engaging. And they don't expect that you're going to turn up at these events. But what isn't there for me, right? And this is not just some adults telling me what I want. So we have to find a way to give juvenile leaders, develop juvenile leaders representatives. You know how we have representatives in every ANC and dc Those commissioners. We can't do the same thing for juveniles because we have to involve them. So anything that does not involve them that their peers don't endorse and sign off on, we've already lost because a bunch of old folks, church folks or whatever else. And we gonna do some vacation Bible school and some and some Dunkin a teacher in the water. That's not gonna fly. And perhaps we should not leave the parents out of the conversation instead of pointing fingers and blaming them. Support them and help them get involved and provide them. Then we got your back and it's not us versus you. So a lot of this is symbolic as well as evidence based as well too.

[Hadi Mawaghdi]

Thaddeus Johnson is a senior fellow at the Council on Criminal Justice. Earlier in the show you heard from Jenny Gathrite from wapo. Hadi Mawaghdi is a producer today explaining he made today's show along with Amina El Saadi, Gabriel Dunatab and David Tadashore. Thanks for listening.

[Jenny Gathrite]

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[Thaddeus Johnson]

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[Hadi Mawaghdi]

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[Thaddeus Johnson]

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