Today, Explained — "Why (some) food tastes better abroad"

Date: October 19, 2025
Host: Vox (Jacqueline Hill)
Theme: Examining why food in some countries — like Japan and France — often tastes better than similar food in the United States, and whether this is due to real differences in quality, preparation, or our own expectations.

Episode Overview

This episode’s central question, inspired by a listener, is: “Why does food seem to taste so much better outside the US?” The show takes a global tour through three foods — beef, bread, and tomatoes — with experts and anecdotes to explore tangible (and intangible) reasons behind remarkable food experiences abroad.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Japanese Beef (Wagyu): Genetics, Preparation, and Culture

[02:40 - 09:34]

• Meat Grading in the US, and Wagyu’s Extremes

  • Phil Bass (Meat Scientist, University of Idaho) [02:40] explains that American beef is graded “prime, choice, select”—mostly based on marbling (fat within the meat), affecting flavor and tenderness.
  • Japanese Wagyu far exceeds US “prime” standards, with up to 40–50% fat content (“super buttery, very, very smooth”) vs. top US beef at 10–12%.
    • Quote:

      “The Wagyu can have upwards of 40 to 50% fat. So it's extremely high amounts. The taste is phenomenal. If you like the flavor of finished beef fat, then it's super buttery. It’s very, very smooth.”
      — Phil Bass [04:14]

• Genetics vs. Feeding

  • The main difference is genetics, not just feeding. Wagyu cattle are specifically bred for marbling. Japanese farming’s smaller scale also leads to different practices.
  • US producers are now breeding Wagyu domestically with some success, but “true” Wagyu still remains a special treat in Japan.

• Preparation & Eating Habits (Ken Kato, Kyoto Butcher) [07:30]

  • Wagyu is eaten in thin slices in Japan, often highlighted for pairing with rice and soy sauce, bringing out nuanced flavors.
    • Quote:

      “If we don’t slice that thing, it might be too much fat. The good preparation for wagyu is the dry aging, which is my specialty…If you do not ageing, you cannot taste that potential.”
      — Ken Kato [08:17]

• Cultural Notes

  • In Japan, beef is part of a rice-centered food culture — not a massive steak meal.
  • Preparation (aging, slicing, pairing) and moderation are as important as the base ingredient.

2. French Bread: Laws, Time, and Industrialization

[11:44 - 20:48]

• Bread Quality: France vs. the US (Eric Pallant, Author of "Sourdough") [11:44]

  • French boulangeries (over 30,000) are legally required to bake bread with just four ingredients: flour, water, leavening agent, salt.
  • Baguette tradition: Must be made on the premises, with freshness baked into the law.
    • Quote:

      “By law in France…If you’re going to sell [bread] in a boulangerie, it's got to meet these criteria.”
      — Eric Pallant [14:39]

• Bread in the US: Speed, Volume, and Additives

  • American industrial bread prioritizes speed and shelf-life over flavor. Automation (since the 1920s) means bread is made rapidly, with many added conditioners for consistency and texture.

    • Quote:

      “We have modified food production to be bread chemistry…You could have dough on one side and bread in a bag on the other in under four hours.”
      — Eric Pallant [16:03]

  • Laws in the US focus on nutritional enrichment (adding back vitamins stripped in white flour processing) and are about “truth in labeling,” not taste or compulsory freshness.

• The Ingredient Americans Lose: “Time”

  • In France, slow fermentation develops complex flavors and aromas.
  • US bread is mostly about convenience; flavor is secondary.
    • Quote:

      “There’s really a fifth ingredient…Time. If it’s slow and methodical, flavors develop, aromas develop…This has flavors that speedy bread doesn't have.”
      — Eric Pallant [16:58]

• Cultural Shifts

  • The US saw a sourdough home-baking boom (especially during the pandemic), but commercial bread adapts quickly, offering things like “Funfetti bread” to mimic trends.

• Will Americans Ever Rave About Their Bread?

  • Quote:

    “It’s going to take a revolution of sorts. And I'm a big believer that food and bread is the place to start in reshaping and rethinking our cultural attitudes to who we are and what we prioritize.”
    — Eric Pallant [20:15]

3. The Tomato: Lost Flavors and Industrial Priorities

[21:21 - 28:22]

• Modern Tomatoes vs. Their Ancestors (Mark Schatzker, Writer-in-Residence, McGill University) [22:35]

  • The tomatoes in most US supermarkets are far removed from their South American ancestors — bred primarily for yield, disease resistance, and shelf-life, not flavor.

    • Quote:

      “The big beautiful red tomato that we all think of is also a very bland tomato…We probably reached peak flavor a few decades ago, then it’s been a bit of a degradation since then.”
      — Mark Schatzker [22:57]

  • Lost Traits:

    • Industrial breeding means the trait for “flavor” gets ignored, and therefore lost.
    • Quote:

      “If you don’t select a trait, you’re going to lose it. So over generations of breeding tomatoes for money-making traits, we’ve lost the one thing we most value... flavor.”
      — Mark Schatzker [24:23]

• Why Europe’s Produce Tastes Better

  • Climate helps, but more important is a continued farm-to-table culture and an appreciation for flavor as a value, especially in France and Italy.
  • Attempts to hybridize flavorful heirlooms with industrial strains find little commercial interest in the US, but European companies embrace them.

• It’s Not Just Tomatoes

  • Similar loss of flavor has happened with strawberries, chicken, and more, in pursuit of uniformity and volume.
    • Quote:

      “There literally is a chicken in every pot, but we've lost so much in the way of flavor.”
      — Mark Schatzker [26:51]

• What Can American Consumers Do?

  • Seek out farmer’s markets, independent supermarkets with direct-from-grower connections, and learn more about where food comes from.
    • Quote:

      “Anytime you can find out a little bit more information, who grew it…there’s more of an opportunity for quality to make its way into the mix.”
      — Mark Schatzker [27:10]

• The Bigger Issue: Fear of Pleasure

  • American culture, focused on convenience and abundance, may subtly distrust the pleasure of wholesome food, unlike France, Italy, or Japan.
    • Quote:

      “I think our relationship with food is broken. We're afraid of pleasure. We think there’s something…it’s some kind of a trap, and I think that’s totally wrong.”
      — Mark Schatzker [27:40]

Notable Quotes

• On Wagyu Beef:

  “If you like the flavor of finished beef fat, then it’s super buttery. It's very, very smooth…too rich of an experience. It's consumed in really small amounts because it is so rich and satiating.”
  — Phil Bass, [04:14]

• On French Bread Laws:

  “By law in France…if you’re buying bread in a boulangerie, it must be made with four ingredients…bread will be made fresh and taste of wheat and leavening and love and time and patience.”
  — Eric Pallant, [12:29] and [14:39]

• On American Bread:

  “We have modified food production to be bread chemistry…Speed and convenience in America. And there’s really a fifth ingredient that’s in sourdough bread, and I would argue the bread in your French boulangerie. Time.”
  — Eric Pallant, [16:03, 16:58]

• On Tomatoes:

  “Industry keeps selecting for yield, disease resistance, shelf life. We don’t buy tomatoes by flavor…over generations of breeding, we’ve lost the one thing we most value in tomatoes, which is the flavor.”
  — Mark Schatzker, [24:23]

• On Food Culture and Flavor:

  “I think our relationship with food is broken. We're afraid of pleasure. We think there’s something…it’s some kind of a trap, and I think that’s totally wrong.”
  — Mark Schatzker, [27:40]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:40 – 07:02] — US vs. Japanese Beef: Genetics, Marbling, Preparation with Phil Bass & Ken Kato
• [11:44 – 20:48] — Bread in France vs US: Laws, Convenience, and Culture with Eric Pallant
• [22:35 – 28:22] — The Tomato's Lost Flavor: Breeding, Culture, and What We've Missed with Mark Schatzker

Memorable Moments

• The idea of the “bread police” enforcing freshness in France [13:45].
• Taylor Swift’s influence on sourdough’s recent American popularity [19:24], and how the bread industry immediately commodifies trends (“Funfetti bread”).
• The notion that time is a lost but vital ‘ingredient’ in American food [16:58].
• Host’s confession about disliking raw tomatoes, and the realization it’s the tomato’s fault — not hers [21:21].

Concluding Reflections

• The episode concludes by noting that many factors (laws, cultural priorities, industrial practices, climate, tradition) affect food flavor — but also that savoring meals and taking the time to appreciate food, as people often do on vacation, is something we could bring into our lives at home to enhance enjoyment, even if ingredients aren’t perfect.
• Final takeaway: Savor the moment — “if not the tomato, then maybe your meal will taste just a little bit better.” [28:22]

This summary presents the podcast’s core arguments, expert insights, and the cultural and industrial forces that shape why food abroad can seem magical — and why it doesn’t have to stay that way.