Today, Explained – "Your pop music is influenced by God"

Podcast: Today, Explained (Vox)
Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Astet Herndon
Guests: Elias Light (Wall Street Journal), Charlie Harding (Switched On Pop)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the unexpected rise and influence of Christian music in American pop culture. Hosts and guests discuss how worship and contemporary Christian music have transcended church walls, reached the mainstream through social media (especially TikTok), and how spiritual motifs, sounds, and structures now permeate secular hits. The show breaks down the data behind Christian music’s growth, explains the musical features that bridge gospel and pop, and reflects on what the trend signals about music, culture, and spirituality in 2025.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Viral Growth of Christian Music (02:34–10:59)

• Christian artists on the Billboard Hot 100:
  • Two Christian artists, Forrest Frank and Brandon Lake, charted simultaneously in 2025—a rare occurrence (02:34).
  • Streaming data by Luminate and Billboard highlights rapid growth, now rivaling genres like EDM (02:34, 03:33).
• Contemporary vs. Gospel:
  • Mainstream breakthrough is centered in "contemporary Christian" acts with pop roots, rather than traditional gospel (04:16).
• Pop-Ready Sound & Messaging:
  • Artists like Forrest Frank craft music meant for "the gym or beach parties"—Christian in message, pop in style (04:57, 05:22).
  • The overt religious content varies; sometimes the Christian tie is in the verse, with choruses that are universally uplifting (08:26).
  • The sound is often described as "trap-pop" or "tiktoky" (05:28, 07:11).
• TikTok's Role:
  • Social platforms, especially TikTok, are propelling Christian songs onto mainstream feeds, making them accessible even to non-Christian or non-religious listeners (07:34–08:53).
• Changing Gatekeepers:
  • The democratization of music distribution (streaming, social media) lets artists bypass old gatekeepers like radio and major labels, challenging traditional power (09:02).
• Durability of the Trend:
  • Uncertain if Christian pop’s massive growth continues, but technological shifts that enabled it appear here to stay (10:13).

Notable Quote

"TikTok is like, probably the most powerful music promotion platform in history because it can get you addicted to something with just like seven seconds."
— Elias Light (08:53)

2. The Interplay of Worship and Secular Music (15:02–23:09)

• Defining Christian Music—More Than a Genre:
  • Christian music encompasses gospel, worship, hymnals, and contemporary pop—it is not confined to a single sound (15:47).
• Black Church's Musical Legacy:
  • Core features that have crossed into secular pop include:
    • Call and response (e.g., "Single Ladies" by Beyoncé, 16:58)
    • Vocal ornamentation (think Whitney Houston’s melismas, 17:17)
    • Rich, chromatic harmonies (Stevie Wonder, Beyoncé, 17:42)
  • Much of this lineage traces back to Thomas Dorsey, "godfather of gospel," who brought blues/jazz into church music (18:17–18:40).
• Modern Influence:
  • Gospel features are "everywhere" in modern pop—Justin Bieber, Dijon, Coldplay (19:36).
  • Song structures like the "slow build" mirror religious experiences—pensive starts, swelling crescendos, and climactic release (19:58).
  • Coldplay’s "Fix You" serves as a template, both spiritually resonant and musically influential for latter-day worship and pop (20:28–21:36).

Notable Quotes

“Christian music is a giant umbrella term… It’s gonna include gospel, Christian contemporary music, worship music, all different kinds of subgenres, including your traditional hymnals.”
— Charlie Harding (15:47)

“Single Ladies by Beyoncé is a call and response track."
— Charlie Harding (16:24)

“Those big beautiful melismatic runs that you hear in Whitney Houston, that comes from church music.”
— Charlie Harding (17:17)

3. Secular/Religious Blurring & What’s Driving the Moment (23:09–26:03)

• Worship Music Adopts Mainstream Forms:
  • Worship bands (e.g., Hillsong, Maverick City Music) use the "Coldplay playbook"—slow, grand builds with soaring guitars (23:00).
• Why Now?:
  • The role of broader politics—pop music traditionally leans secular and progressive, but 2025 charts reflect a rightward and/or spiritual turn (23:50).
  • Most importantly, streaming reveals "what people are actually listening to," showing a demand for songs with faith-based or inspirational content that legacy gatekeepers might have previously obscured (24:27).
• Chart Diversity:
  • Today's charts feature an array of styles and influences; there is no dominant sound for Christian or secular music (25:19).
• Forecasting the Next Big Trend:
  • Predicts continued success for spiritually tinged power ballads and sound-alikes given the strong public appetite for "music that provides a connection to a higher calling" or relief from the news cycle (26:03).

Notable Quotes

“There is great demand for songs like ‘Ordinary’ by Alex Warren... When you have that big of a breakout hit...what you get are follow-ons...I think we’re going to hear a lot more of this kind of sound the coming year.”
— Charlie Harding (26:03)

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• Astet Herndon on personal connection to gospel:
  "When I’m feeling particularly anxious or a little scared, I have an emergency playlist of gospel songs that almost always makes me feel better." (00:00)
• On accessibility through TikTok:
  "You can kind of stumble across it and then be like, oh, I kind of like this song." — Elias Light (07:34)
• Explaining the "slow build" structure:
  “That song form mirrors the experience of a religious experience... You can just picture being in a giant cathedral. And all of a sudden... you’re having this holy moment.” — Charlie Harding (21:07–21:36)
• On the mainstreaming of Christian pop:
  "Now that we’re seeing what people are listening to in streaming, it’s very clear there is great demand for songs like 'Ordinary' by Alex War." — Charlie Harding (26:03)

Important Segments with Timestamps

• Christian music's rise and data background: 02:34–04:44
• Artist profiles and musical style (Forrest Frank): 05:22–07:11
• Role of TikTok in music discovery: 07:34–08:53
• Changing industry gatekeepers and artist independence: 09:02–10:03
• Gospel’s influence on secular pop (call and response, harmonies): 16:24–18:40
• "Slow build" song form and religious experience: 19:58–21:36
• Streaming reshaping what charts measure: 24:27–25:42
• Predictions for 2026 trends: 26:03–27:11

Conclusion

This episode reveals how the borders between worship, gospel, and mainstream pop are more porous than ever, with Christian music’s sounds, themes, and song structures now coloring much of what fills today’s charts. Streaming and social media both surface spiritual music for broader audiences and reshape our understanding of what "mainstream" even means. Looking ahead, listeners can expect more power ballads with uplifting or faith-rooted messages, as the appetite for songs offering hope and connection shows no sign of fading.