Your pop music is influenced by God

Summary

Today, Explained – "Your pop music is influenced by God"

Podcast: Today, Explained (Vox)
Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Astet Herndon
Guests: Elias Light (Wall Street Journal), Charlie Harding (Switched On Pop)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the unexpected rise and influence of Christian music in American pop culture. Hosts and guests discuss how worship and contemporary Christian music have transcended church walls, reached the mainstream through social media (especially TikTok), and how spiritual motifs, sounds, and structures now permeate secular hits. The show breaks down the data behind Christian music’s growth, explains the musical features that bridge gospel and pop, and reflects on what the trend signals about music, culture, and spirituality in 2025.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Viral Growth of Christian Music (02:34–10:59)

• Christian artists on the Billboard Hot 100:
  • Two Christian artists, Forrest Frank and Brandon Lake, charted simultaneously in 2025—a rare occurrence (02:34).
  • Streaming data by Luminate and Billboard highlights rapid growth, now rivaling genres like EDM (02:34, 03:33).
• Contemporary vs. Gospel:
  • Mainstream breakthrough is centered in "contemporary Christian" acts with pop roots, rather than traditional gospel (04:16).
• Pop-Ready Sound & Messaging:
  • Artists like Forrest Frank craft music meant for "the gym or beach parties"—Christian in message, pop in style (04:57, 05:22).
  • The overt religious content varies; sometimes the Christian tie is in the verse, with choruses that are universally uplifting (08:26).
  • The sound is often described as "trap-pop" or "tiktoky" (05:28, 07:11).
• TikTok's Role:
  • Social platforms, especially TikTok, are propelling Christian songs onto mainstream feeds, making them accessible even to non-Christian or non-religious listeners (07:34–08:53).
• Changing Gatekeepers:
  • The democratization of music distribution (streaming, social media) lets artists bypass old gatekeepers like radio and major labels, challenging traditional power (09:02).
• Durability of the Trend:
  • Uncertain if Christian pop’s massive growth continues, but technological shifts that enabled it appear here to stay (10:13).

Notable Quote

"TikTok is like, probably the most powerful music promotion platform in history because it can get you addicted to something with just like seven seconds."
— Elias Light (08:53)

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2. The Interplay of Worship and Secular Music (15:02–23:09)

• Defining Christian Music—More Than a Genre:
  • Christian music encompasses gospel, worship, hymnals, and contemporary pop—it is not confined to a single sound (15:47).
• Black Church's Musical Legacy:
  • Core features that have crossed into secular pop include:
    • Call and response (e.g., "Single Ladies" by Beyoncé, 16:58)
    • Vocal ornamentation (think Whitney Houston’s melismas, 17:17)
    • Rich, chromatic harmonies (Stevie Wonder, Beyoncé, 17:42)
  • Much of this lineage traces back to Thomas Dorsey, "godfather of gospel," who brought blues/jazz into church music (18:17–18:40).
• Modern Influence:
  • Gospel features are "everywhere" in modern pop—Justin Bieber, Dijon, Coldplay (19:36).
  • Song structures like the "slow build" mirror religious experiences—pensive starts, swelling crescendos, and climactic release (19:58).
  • Coldplay’s "Fix You" serves as a template, both spiritually resonant and musically influential for latter-day worship and pop (20:28–21:36).

Notable Quotes

“Christian music is a giant umbrella term… It’s gonna include gospel, Christian contemporary music, worship music, all different kinds of subgenres, including your traditional hymnals.”
— Charlie Harding (15:47)

“Single Ladies by Beyoncé is a call and response track."
— Charlie Harding (16:24)

“Those big beautiful melismatic runs that you hear in Whitney Houston, that comes from church music.”
— Charlie Harding (17:17)

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3. Secular/Religious Blurring & What’s Driving the Moment (23:09–26:03)

• Worship Music Adopts Mainstream Forms:
  • Worship bands (e.g., Hillsong, Maverick City Music) use the "Coldplay playbook"—slow, grand builds with soaring guitars (23:00).
• Why Now?:
  • The role of broader politics—pop music traditionally leans secular and progressive, but 2025 charts reflect a rightward and/or spiritual turn (23:50).
  • Most importantly, streaming reveals "what people are actually listening to," showing a demand for songs with faith-based or inspirational content that legacy gatekeepers might have previously obscured (24:27).
• Chart Diversity:
  • Today's charts feature an array of styles and influences; there is no dominant sound for Christian or secular music (25:19).
• Forecasting the Next Big Trend:
  • Predicts continued success for spiritually tinged power ballads and sound-alikes given the strong public appetite for "music that provides a connection to a higher calling" or relief from the news cycle (26:03).

Notable Quotes

“There is great demand for songs like ‘Ordinary’ by Alex Warren... When you have that big of a breakout hit...what you get are follow-ons...I think we’re going to hear a lot more of this kind of sound the coming year.”
— Charlie Harding (26:03)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• Astet Herndon on personal connection to gospel:
  "When I’m feeling particularly anxious or a little scared, I have an emergency playlist of gospel songs that almost always makes me feel better." (00:00)
• On accessibility through TikTok:
  "You can kind of stumble across it and then be like, oh, I kind of like this song." — Elias Light (07:34)
• Explaining the "slow build" structure:
  “That song form mirrors the experience of a religious experience... You can just picture being in a giant cathedral. And all of a sudden... you’re having this holy moment.” — Charlie Harding (21:07–21:36)
• On the mainstreaming of Christian pop:
  "Now that we’re seeing what people are listening to in streaming, it’s very clear there is great demand for songs like 'Ordinary' by Alex War." — Charlie Harding (26:03)

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Important Segments with Timestamps

• Christian music's rise and data background: 02:34–04:44
• Artist profiles and musical style (Forrest Frank): 05:22–07:11
• Role of TikTok in music discovery: 07:34–08:53
• Changing industry gatekeepers and artist independence: 09:02–10:03
• Gospel’s influence on secular pop (call and response, harmonies): 16:24–18:40
• "Slow build" song form and religious experience: 19:58–21:36
• Streaming reshaping what charts measure: 24:27–25:42
• Predictions for 2026 trends: 26:03–27:11

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Conclusion

This episode reveals how the borders between worship, gospel, and mainstream pop are more porous than ever, with Christian music’s sounds, themes, and song structures now coloring much of what fills today’s charts. Streaming and social media both surface spiritual music for broader audiences and reshape our understanding of what "mainstream" even means. Looking ahead, listeners can expect more power ballads with uplifting or faith-rooted messages, as the appetite for songs offering hope and connection shows no sign of fading.

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Transcript

[Astet Herndon]

So here's a little secret. When I'm feeling particularly anxious or a little scared, I have an emergency playlist of gospel songs that almost always makes me feel better. Like this one. Or this one. Christian music, particularly the old school stuff my parents used to listen to, has always made me feel hope, feel inspired, feel calm. But now it seems more and more people, not just pastors, kids like me, are turning to Christian tracks for that same reason. Worship songs had a big year in 2025, with Christian artists going viral on TikTok and rising on the Billboard charts. What's behind all of this? Besides God, of course. That's coming up on today. Explained from vo. Support for the show comes from Smartless Mobile. The guys behind the podcast Smartless say that many of us are only using a tiny fraction of the data we pay for on those expensive unlimited plans. Smartless Mobile offers plans based on what you actually use. No contracts, no overage fees. You can visit smartlessmobile.com today. Plans start at 10 bucks a month, and for a limited time only you you can get your first month free on their 30 gigabytes plan. So you're more than covered. Just use the code todayexplain at checkout. Taxes and fees. Extra terms and conditions apply. Don't get outsmarted. Get Smartless Mobile Support for this show comes from Amazon Ads. Every business owner has been there. You put a significant amount of money into an ad buy and then wonder did those ads actually have an effect? Luckily there's Omni Channel metrics from Amazon Ads. Omnichannel Metrics helps advertisers understand how their Amazon ads campaigns drive sales both on and beyond Amazon. While campaigns are still mid flight, whether customers buy on Amazon or at a brick and mortar store, you'll understand the full impact of your campaigns. Head to advertising.Amazon.com to learn more. That's advertising.Amazon.com. This is today explained. Elias Light is a music reporter for the Wall Street Journal. He's been writing about the rise of Christian music.

[Elias Light]

This year, Billboard ran a piece back in May about how there were two Christian artists on the Hot 100 simultaneously, which hadn't happened in a really long time. And then also there's kind of a separate data company called Luminate and they publish twice a year reports on kind of listening behavior and tracking how different genres are doing. And in two consecutive reports they sort of flagged that Christian music was growing really fast. So that kind of got me intrigued that maybe it was something to dive into.

[Astet Herndon]

How popular has Christian music gotten? What Was the data that was really drawing you in.

[Elias Light]

Yeah. So I think there were two kind of key points. One is there were these two songs that were both on the Hot 100. One by Forrest Frank, you're Ways better. You're Ways better than the other by this guy, Brandon Lake, I'll Bring My.

[Astet Herndon]

Heart Far heartfelt, been through hell, Hallelujah.

[Elias Light]

And the other was just the speed at which it was growing. It's still like a relatively small genre compared to pop or hip hop, but it's been expanding really quickly. And it's not that far away now from electronic dance music in the US which is what, you know, kind of what we think of as one of the big traditional genres.

[Astet Herndon]

That data point is interesting. You mentioned a couple of the artists who were on the Hot 100 list and. And I have actually heard a couple of those songs because it seemed as if it was breaking through into like larger pop culture. But I want to clarify, like, what we're talking about when we mean Christian music. Like, you know, I grew up in a church where I think that was more like gospel style. It feels like we're talking more evangelical Christian artists, more pop Christian artists.

[Elias Light]

Yeah, definitely. So, like when Luminate talks about sort of tracking the growth of the space overall, they kind of lump all the Christian faith based stuff together. So it's both the gospel and the contemporary Christian, which is what they kind of call the other wing of that space. But my article focused more on the latter just because that's where right now you've seen kind of these big artists make kind of mainstream gains. Like a Forest Frank, like a Brandon Lake.

[Astet Herndon]

And is this a certain sound? Like how overtly religious are we talking about these songs being? Is it like lyrics that are just generally inspiring, or is it clear from both lyric to artist that this is Christian music?

[Elias Light]

Yeah, so I mean, it varies a lot, but I think a lot of what you're seeing in this new wave is they, you know, they don't really want their stuff to be like pigeonholed as worship music. That's only for church, you know, Like Forest Frank talked about this. He used to make secular music. He started making Christian music. He felt like there was no Christian music that worked well outside of a church environment. He wanted to make music for the gym that was Christian music, for beach parties, stuff like that.

[Astet Herndon]

Okay, so this Forest Frank, what does he actually sound like? And describe to me the hits.

[Elias Light]

Yeah, so I think so much of what we've seen in the last 10 years of pop or whatever has Been kind of borrowing the drums, especially from Atlanta hip hop. So it's kind of like this trap pop sound, you know, like, very busy hi hats with, like, some nice keyboards. He used to be in this electronic pop duo called Surfaces.

[Astet Herndon]

Yeah.

[Elias Light]

Back during COVID in, like, the early days of COVID when people started going viral like crazy on TikTok, surfaces had one of the first really big viral pandemic hits. Feeling good like I should when indoor blue all around the neighborhood Feeling blessed And he talked about sort of in interviews. He would try to, like, smuggle Christian ideas into the lyrics while he was with Surfaces. But eventually he started writing his own explicitly Christian music. When I'm overwhelmed within from the weight of all my sin I need a friend to call my own I need a house to call my own When I'm broken down inside and, yeah, so he's had a ton of success. He's done over a billion streams just this year alone.

[Astet Herndon]

Wow.

[Elias Light]

And that is kind of. His thing is, like, it is very pop friendly in sound. If you listen closely, you are gonna be like, oh, this guy's you. He's talking about his love for God and stuff like that. But if you just kind of are scrolling through social media and you happen to find his music in a dance challenge, you may not even notice that it could be Glass Animals or some other kind of pop group.

[Astet Herndon]

Yeah, I mean, that's really what I was taking away when I was listening to it. In some ways, it was explicitly kind of Christian lyrics. It wasn't hiding the kind of message of it, but the sound of it felt kind of tiktoky, I would say. Like, how much are we talking about a rise in Christian music generally versus how much is this driven by these emerging social platforms and specifically TikTok?

[Elias Light]

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that's so fascinating about kind of the modern music industry, and we've seen this with K pop, we've seen this with Latin music, we've seen this with country is the industry used to be super siloed. Right. And there were kind of these walls drawn between genres. Rock fans listen to rock, rap fans listen to rap. There wasn't a lot of mingling. Right. But now we live in this age of streaming and social media. There's just so much more accessibility. Everyone listens to everything. And we've seen a number of genres really benefit from that and grow. And like, again, I mentioned country and K pop and Latin, those are kind of like the big three. But also, I think some of those Same factors are helping Christian music. It's just. It's accessible in a new way that it wasn't, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago. You can kind of stumble across it and then be like, oh, I kind of like this song.

[Astet Herndon]

Yeah. You know, I am thinking so much about, like, the TikTok of it all, too, because, you know, maybe the verse of the song is explicitly Christian, but the chorus, you know, particularly as I was listening to this Forest Frank song today, is just a general inspiring message about having a good day. And if I'm scrolling for 30 seconds, it's not like, explicitly clear to me that that good day is because of the Messiah, as the rest of the song would tell me.

[Elias Light]

Yeah, no, absolutely.

[Astet Herndon]

It's.

[Elias Light]

I mean, TikTok is like, probably the most powerful music promotion platform in history because it can get you addicted to something with just like seven seconds. Right.

[Astet Herndon]

You know, your article mentions these artists bypassing traditional Christian music gatekeepers, I guess. You know, one of the things we were thinking about is how much of this do we think relates to kind of the future of even radio or major labels kind of controlling access to the genre's audience? Is some of this a story also about those changing gatekeepers?

[Elias Light]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that's not just even a Christian music thing. There's sort of a much wider question right now of what is the value of a major label. Radio hardly moves the needle anymore. These labels still have a lot of money, but basically artists can get so popular without them. And, you know, at least for now, you still see most big artists are affiliated with kind of these major labels in some way, but they're able to get much better deals than they ever could because they can go so far on their own. So, yeah, any music gatekeepers right now in any genre are facing this kind of existential question, which is kind of, what value can we still bring to the table?

[Astet Herndon]

Do you think this is a kind of flash in the pan? How do we know if these moments, as we look ahead, is this a trend for 2025, or do we have any hints on if this is a trend that's going to grow or sustain moving forward?

[Elias Light]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, I can't predict if it's going to continue growing at the same rate. If I could, I would be a wealthier man. But I think again, in terms of sort of like the larger shifts that have happened that allow this growth. Right. In terms of accessibility via streaming and social media, those themes seem here to stay. Right. So in general, like again, like you sort of said genres that were once considered very niche, there's always the potential. Now a hit can come from anywhere, right?

[Astet Herndon]

That's Elias Light. He reports on music for the Wall Street Journal coming up. The music doesn't necessarily have to be Christian to give you a religious experience. How worship and secular music are influencing each other.

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[Elias Light]

Lord Father God, bring us this today.

[Charlie Harding]

Explains and may it nour our news. I'm Charlie Harding. I am the host of the podcast Switched On Pop. It's a music podcast. I'm also a music professor.

[Astet Herndon]

Yes, and the perfect person to talk to because we just had a conversation with the Wall Street Journal's Elias Light about how Christian artists have embraced a wider variety of sounds this year and have really broken through via the on pop charts or just culturally in 2025. Now we wanted to come to you just to get a better understanding of of why this happened and what specifically what music we're talking about. When we think about Christian music, is it a style? Is it a vibe? Like, how would you describe said genre in general?

[Charlie Harding]

Christian music is a giant umbrella term that I feel like encompasses all religious music and music that even like bleeds over into the secular world. Some stuff that happens on the Hot 100. But it's gonna include gospel, Christian, contemporary music, worship music, all different kinds of subgenres, including your traditional hymnals. You know, they're all gonna exist in this umbrella of Christian music.

[Astet Herndon]

What are the key like facets when we think about Christian music? My head goes to that kind of call and response. Like, you know, kind of easy to pick up the lyrics, easy for you to kind of find community with your neighbor in the song. Like, is that what we mean?

[Charlie Harding]

I think the vast majority of modern Christian music draws heavily from the black church. So things like call and response, you know, that comes from a song like Wade in the Water, where you have a church leader or caller who's going to sing a line and then the community is going to sing a line back in response. And that is used all over the place in Christian music as well as secular music. Single Ladies by Beyonce is a call and response track.

[Astet Herndon]

I guess I haven't put that together, but you're right. All the single ladies. If you say it back. Single ladies. All the single ladies yeah, yeah, yeah all the single ladies all the single ladies all the single ladies. Now put your hands up as you're mentioning. This isn't limited to something like gospel or Christian music. Some of these forms, be it call or response or others, have shown up in secular music also.

[Charlie Harding]

Oh, yeah. If you think about the sonic signifiers of gospel music beyond call and response, things like vocal ornamentation, those big beautiful melismatic runs that you hear in Whitney Houston, that comes from church music.

[Astet Herndon]

And I. Will always love you, I will.

[Charlie Harding]

If you think about the beautiful harmonic progressions that you get in gospel, all of those sort of chromatic leading chords, your. Those sort of crunchy in between chords. I mean, that's a. You hear that kind of thing on Love on Top, You hear it in Stevie Wonder. Love is in need of love today.

[Elias Light]

Good morning, friends.

[Astet Herndon]

Here's your friendly yawn.

[Charlie Harding]

Now, it all comes from Thomas Dorsey, who is sort of like the godfather of gospel music. He was born in 1899. Sharecropper family, played blues and jazz, totally secular music, and then brought that sound into the world of gospel.

[Elias Light]

When you reach.

[Astet Herndon]

That golden city.

[Charlie Harding]

All of those sonic signifiers are what make gospel music. And they are ubiquitous in music across the board.

[Astet Herndon]

Are we still hearing those type of chords or influences in modern music, as in the last couple years?

[Charlie Harding]

It's still huge. I mean, I think about. Justin Bieber came out with his album Swag this year. He's got a song featuring the artist and producer Dijon called Devotion. And it has all of those big vocal ornamentations. It has the gospel chorus, like the idea of the chorus, the moment we all sing together spans from those traditions. And so when Dijon and Justin are singing about their devotion, in which case it's sort of bleeding over into devotional love. Devotion as much as maybe about devotion of a higher being, we get those Same kinds of qualities. And you're gonna hear the sounds of gospel and contemporary music everywhere.

[Astet Herndon]

And, you know, one of the things you have focused on is this slow build that seems associated with gospel music, but we now see in music, secular music broadly. Yeah, I wanted to just dig a little deeper on that. You've said that it's a song structure that's ubiquitous in Christian music. But as we learned in our first half of the show, it's not just one sound anymore. So how would you describe this slow build and where do we see it.

[Charlie Harding]

In music broadly, the slow build? I think the Uretex of the slow build, if not Diane Warren ballads, would be Fix youx by Coldplay. And it's one of the most influential songs, actually, in Christian worship music. It's a song that begins with a quiet organ, so kind of hinting at the church. Just Chris Martin singing in a very pensive, quiet, almost whisper vocal, singing about trying to overcome a difficult situation when.

[Elias Light]

You get what you want, but not what you need.

[Charlie Harding]

And then has this moment of, like, things are gonna get better.

[Elias Light]

Lights will guide.

[Astet Herndon]

You.

[Charlie Harding]

The production builds, you get these swelling strings. And by the time you get to the end of the song, things just completely explode. Except for the very final moment.

[Elias Light]

I will try to fix you.

[Charlie Harding]

The idea is, yeah, it's just an ever building crescendo. And I think that that song form mirrors the experience of a religious experience. It's like I'm gonna get on my knees and pray and have a moment to myself and try to look towards the divine for answers. And you can just picture being in a giant cathedral. And all of a sudden the light changes. The light shines down through the stained glass, and you're having this. This holy moment, something bigger than yourself. And that's what that song form does.

[Astet Herndon]

You know, I like that because it does, as you mentioned, kind of mimic the rhythm of a church service. You know, you're going through moments of reflection, then a kind of, like, culminating, whether sermon or particularly in gospel of the Service. And then it does return to the kind of reflection at the end. The other song that popped in my head, now that we're talking about things building, is like Lil Wayne's Let the Beat Build, which I think is like a Kanye gospel track too. Like, that's a song that also, like, takes those little steps. I don't know if he thought he was making the gospel anthem, but I can see how the slow build formula is a successful one.

[Charlie Harding]

Well, you know, I don't love mentioning him. Cause he always wants so much attention. But Kanye has taken that religious turn in his music as well. But what's interesting about Coldplay is that I think of them as actually sort of like religious music for secular people. That the experience is that community gathering, that feeling of being a part of something bigger, that song form. And it turns out that they are incredibly influential in the world of worship music. And worship music is sort of modern evangelical music. It has that same song form. It's kind of like soft rock adjacent. It's gotta have at some point when those electric guitars go da da da da da da da Everything builds and explodes. And then the final moment of solemn.

[Astet Herndon]

Prayer when heaven and earth were face to face oh, how the world forever.

[Elias Light]

Changed For God is with us.

[Charlie Harding]

And so there are so many groups like Hillsong or Maverick City Music who are borrowing from those Coldplay playbook.

[Astet Herndon]

Why do we think it's taken to a 2025 for, like, even this kitchen contemporary to have its kind of a mainstream turn? If we're thinking about artists like, you know, Forest Frank or others.

[Charlie Harding]

Yeah, Forest Frank, you, Way Is Better was a big hit this year. Very different style song than Alex Warren's Ordinary. Miles Smith had a great track called Stargazing, another one of those great epic building songs.

[Astet Herndon]

Take My Heart, Don't Break It, Love Me.

[Charlie Harding]

Why is it happening now? I don't know. Is it because of the right word turn in the world where, you know, typically popular music has been very dominant with progressive and secular values. And we're seeing more songs both of religious conservatism and political conservatism finding their way on the charts that might reflect larger swings of. Of political persuasion. I also think that what really, what we're seeing is that stream streaming, having matured and become the main way that we listen to music, shows how people are actually listening.

[Astet Herndon]

What do you mean?

[Charlie Harding]

Well, it used to be, if you look at Billboard charts From before the 1990s, it was reported radio plays and music shops saying what they sold. We didn't know what people actually were listening to at home. Now with streaming, we can actually count every single play. And we know that people are listening to things that perhaps don't fit the dominant narrative that you might have heard on mtv. And when we look at Billboard today, it's all over the place. There doesn't seem to be a dominant narrative in Christian music, let alone in secular music. You have Luther, one of the biggest tracks of the year, sza, and Kendrick Lamar. Up against a track like Apatow, Kissy.

[Astet Herndon]

Face kissy face sent to your phone But I'm trying to kiss your lips.

[Elias Light]

For real Red Hots Red Hearts A.

[Charlie Harding]

Throwback kind of like 1980s bop with crossover Bruno Mars with rose from blackpink K pop group like the charts aren't any one thing. The charts are all the diversity of what everyone is listening to.

[Astet Herndon]

Do we have any signs then about what might be on tap for 2026? Can we expect Alex Warren style power ballads? Can we expect this kind of moment of inspirational Christian music to continue? Or is there something else afoot that you see in the trend lines that you can tell us to, you know, might be on the charts come 2026?

[Charlie Harding]

Here's the thing. Christian music has always been huge. It doesn't get a lot of mainstream media attention and so it might seem smaller than the actual listening audience is. Now that we're seeing what people are listening to is streaming, it's very clear that there is great demand for songs like Ordinary by Alex War. When you have that big of a breakout hit of something which is a little bit left field, we're not expecting it. What you get are follow ons. It's like when Billie Eilish came out, you got 100 mini Billie Eilish's. The next year I think we're gonna hear a lot of Alex Warren sound alikes in the following year I think there is a desire for music that provides a connection to a higher calling that at least gives us a reprieve from the otherwise constant barrage of challenging news. And so I think we're going to hear a lot more of this kind of sound the coming year.

[Astet Herndon]

That is songwriter and music professor Charlie Harding. You can hear him on his own podcast, Switch Storm Pop. Today's episode was produced by Hadi Mwagdi, Edited by Aminah Al Saadi Fact Checked by Laura Bullard Engineered by Patrick Boyd and David Tadashore. The rest of the team includes Avishai Artsy, Miles Bryant, Peter Balanon Rosen, Danielle Hewitt, Kelly Wezinger, Arianna Aspadu, Noel King and Sean Ramaswaram. Our deputy EP is Jolie Myers and our executive producer is Miranda King Kennedy. We use music by Breakmaster Cylinder. I'm Astet Herndon. Today Explained is distributed by wnyc. The show is part of the Vox Media Podcast network. For more award winning podcasts, visit podcast.voxmedia.com youm can listen ad free by signing [e-mail] members and check out Explain it to Me now in our feed every Sunday morning.

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