Nigel Farage and the £5m question that won’t go away - Today in Focus

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This is the Guardian.
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Today. Nigel Farage's money problems.
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Today In Focus is supported by Paramount. Plus, this isn't the end of a fight, it's the start of one. Lioness, the critically acclaimed original series from
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Taylor Sheridan, is now streaming only on Paramount.
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In the new season, hidden networks, foreign operatives and personal betrayals collide. Meanwhile, Jo walks the line between duty
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and family as unseen forces circle her world, leaving her to reckon with a war that now reaches into every part of her life. Don't miss the new season of Lioness,
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starring Zoe Saldana and Michael Kelly, with
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Morgan Freeman and Nicole Kidman, now streaming only on Paramount. For a while earlier this year, it looked like nothing could stop Nigel Farage heading for Downing Street. Not the allegations of schoolboy racism. UK leader Nigel Farage has publicly denied
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that he ever, and these are his
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words, directly racially abused anybody. It follows the dodgy cameo videos Wag
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wan Ted, you sussy jungus. I hope you have a POG birthday.
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Remember, Brexit means not the £400,000 he trousered for advertising gold bullion.
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Generations of my family worked here in the City of London, including me in the metals business. Now behind me is the bank of England. That's where our national gold reserves are held. But hey, you can hold gold too.
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Then at the end of April, Guardian City editor Anna Isaac delivered a game changing scoop.
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So that was a £5 million gift, as Nigel Farage has termed it, from Christopher Harborne, who is a cryptocurrency billionaire, and it emerged that he had given this huge lump sum to Nigel Farage just weeks before the 2024 general election.
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Farage has come up with all manner of explanations for the gift from I
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can use it to buy Ferraris if I want. It's unconditional. It was unconditional, but it was absolutely predicated on security costs and also that it was a reward for Brexit campaigning.
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It set off a domino run of allegations against the Reform leader and other reform figures, including his deputy leader.
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Some breaking news Reform UK MP for Boston Skegness Richard Tice is being investigated by parliamentary authorities over an alleged failure to declare interest, the parliamentary whisper standards confirmed earlier this morning.
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Investigation and George Cottrell, better known as Posh George, who served time in a US jail for wire fraud.
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His name's George Cottrell and he's in the news because he financially supported Farage in the year before he became an mp and the Reform UK leader didn't
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register the benefit, which is why several parties have referred him to Parliament standards watchdog.
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And on the weekend, new revelations emerged about an alleged deal struck between Tice and Farage, suggesting Farage had decided to return to politics before that 5 million pounds landed in his bank account. And the awkward questions keep coming.
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In 2024, did you negotiate a deal on what would happen to Reform's finances
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if you came back as leader at a time when you were suggesting you had no plans to return to electoral policy?
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Can you be absolutely clear and honest? When did you start thinking about returning
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to Parliament and becoming the leader of the Republican Party? I was being bullied.
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From the Guardian, I'm Helen Peard. Today in Focus, farage and the 5 million pound question that won't go away. Anna Isaac, welcome back to Today in Focus. Nice to see you.
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Nice to be here.
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So you're the Guardian City editor, but I think you deserve another title, which is the Guardian Scoop Queen, because your reporting on reform has, I really do think, changed the political weather so much in the past few months. So I salute you and I'm very glad that you're here today. And there have been so many twists and turns to all of these stories, and we're going to get into all of those. But can you start by telling us what made you want to look into Reform's finances?
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I've always been interested in money meets politics, but I think for a long time you were looking at this extraordinary ascendancy of this political party. Right. So although it had existed for a few years, it was still regarded as very new in sort of national major politics beyond the Brexit issue, when it came to the 2024 election. And I was starting to take a closer look at the money behind it. And who was Dr. And were they the same people that had supported the Brexit party, its precursor, or were we seeing some new faces or different ways of political party fundraising? And that's what sort of led me towards these recent stories.
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And how difficult was it to delve into their finances and to follow the trail of the money?
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It can be tough. It can take a really long time. It's a group of people around the party who feel very protective of it, who feel that a lot of the media isn't giving it a fair hearing and things like that, and so had to work pretty hard, both working sort of financial industry sources, which obviously have a background in, but also working on new sources and trying to explain. It was just about telling the facts.
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And you had this, I'm going to say, bombshell splash back in April this year. About the 5 million pound donation that Farage received from this mysterious crypto billionaire, Christopher Harborne. And that was a time when reform were leading in the polls. How things can change. And as a result of that 5 million pound gift and your story that revealed it, Farage was referred to the Standards Watchdog, wasn't he, at Parliament then? You've also reported remarks that he made, I think, back in March 2024. Farage, this is when he said that he would need £1 million a year to stand as an MP. And that was just a month before he accepted this gift. Talk to me about that story.
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There was a lot of will he, won't he, within Reform, basically from January onwards in 2024, would Farage stand? Would he not a big concern, according to sources that he had, was he, at that time he would have to give up his gig presenting on GB News.
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Why am I here? Why have I decided to join GB News full on? Not just to come in on a Sunday morning, but to launch this show tonight, Farage. And I'll be here Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday from 7pm till 8pm Very lucrative gig.
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Very, very lucrative gig. We know because of disclosures he's since made about what he's paid by GB News, that he argues this money includes VAT and various things, but in terms of actual direct payment to his company, Thorne, in the. He gets about a million a year, roughly speaking, at that time, that was the kind of money he was earning. And his concern was that, remember he went on the record in 2017 and said he was skint and there's no money in politics. And he's repeated that phrase there's no money in politics many times.
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There's no money in politics if you're straight, if you're currently.
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And he was of a view, according to sources, that he was really going to miss out, he was going to put himself in financial hardship again, potentially, by going back into what he termed frontline politics, although he was campaigning for reform at this time, and he just felt like that trade off was too tough. And he said that to senior figures in Reform and to some party funders. And I just think that's really important context for us to have in mind when we look at the fact that he was given this £5 million.
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Yeah. And it's probably worth us pointing out here that Farage, or at least his office, have never denied that he did say that he would need a million pound a year to go back into politics. But when you went to them for a response, they. The office said, quote, Mr. Farage says he does not feel any answer he gives to you will be reflected accurately. So there you go. Yeah. And then this weekend came yet more revelations about the timing of Farage's return to politics. Tell me about them.
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Yeah, absolutely. So in the Sunday Times, we had a story about negotiations that were happening in March and April in 2024. And these talks were ultimately about a deal for the return to leadership of the party for Nigel Farage. But in some sense it's more of a deal for Richard Tice. These discussions were about the amount of money he'd loaned to the party and whether or not he'd be repaid for that as part of this process of virage, returning to the leadership position. Because let's remember that Richard Tice was leader for a long time and his money really propped up the party and kept it in survival mode for several years. So that's the context. But it's really critical that he was having these discussions in March and April at a time when he said he was not actively involved in frontline politics. So this is a really important development and it does fit with our previous reporting about some of the discussions he was having, talking about coming back to this frontline role and standing in the next election.
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Yeah. And he addressed this story at a press conference on Monday. And Farage press conferences last year were ten a penny. He was doing one every single week. But he's been somewhat missing in action since your story about the revelation of the £5 million earlier in SP. What did you make about the fact that he decided to give this press conference, which was ostensibly about immigration and using navy boats to repel small boat migrants, and what he had to say about the latest revelations.
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I think what was really significant is that there was sort of a few things that built up to form pressure on him, I think, to take this big public stand today. And for the first time, he acknowledged that there were live discussions about his return during the spring.
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I had no intention of returning to politics or as leader of reform, but in the spring of that year, I did talk to Richard Tice about what the liabilities would be if. If I was to come back to that position.
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He hit back at it being called a deal, but he said it was perfectly reasonable for him to work out what the liabilities might be if he were to take on the leadership. When he was considering whether or not to do that in March and April of 2024, that cr.
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You'd be a bit of a mug, wouldn't you? To walk into a job and not find out what the potential liabilities were, and they were substantial.
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He did try to say that these talks came after the gift, but given that they've been defined as being in March and April, and lawyers for Christopher Harborne told us the gift was in on the 5th of April, that would be tricky timing wise. Also, other reporting, we have suggested that some of the money arrived much later, in late May. So there are still very big questions about the timing. But it's really interesting that he's acknowledging for the first time that there were these discussions and that he was toing and froing on his decision.
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And when Farage turned up for his press conference in Westminster on Monday, he will have known full well that he would also face questions about his financial affairs. What do you think we can read into the fact that he did subject himself to this questioning?
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I think he appeared to be making a very concerted effort to be more relaxed in front of media. His tone was very different. He was working very hard to maintain a very calm manner, even when he was asked about things that had made him extremely angry in recent months and weeks. When it came to what he said was outrageous treatment of his family by the press, he seemed very much keen to maintain this very, very calm tone. And he made a point of saying sort of, we don't want to be seen to be whingeing. And that's a real shift in tone there from his previous position where he was very much a sort of us versus with the media.
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And right now, Farage is, of course, campaigning in a by election where his main opponent is Count Bin Face. And we're going to bring listeners an episode from Clacton in the next week. But the timing of him calling that by election raised eyebrows, didn't it, in the Guardian offices because it came after you had found out that the National Crime Agency was looking into the origin of that 5 million pound gift because bankers had apparently raised concerns that there was a potential risk of money laundering.
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The key thing to understand, and they're called suspicious activity reports, to give you the jargon, these are bankers going, hmm, we have reasons to think that this might be a problem, reasons to think that there could be money laundering involved. So we are sending a report off to the National Crime Agency to say to them, look, this is one for you guys to take a look at and decide whether or not you want to investigate, right? It is not the same as a crime report, okay? If they found out that there was definitely a crime and they knew for sure then they would make a report to the police. Yeah, these are a level, they're in a separate category from that. They're saying, look, we think something may have happened here, but we need you guys to check.
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Ok, and what have Farage and Christopher Harborne had to say about the origins of that 5 million?
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Nigel Farage has said that he had no reason to doubt the origin of the funds. And lawyers for Christopher Harborne haven't addressed directly the question of where the £5 million comes from.
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Okay, and let's talk about another of Farage's friends, a younger friend in this case, a guy called George Cottrell. We've talked about him on the podcast before. He's often better known by his nickname, Posh George. Remind us who he is and how questions about him started to swirl and his involvement in funding Farage and Reform uk.
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So George Cottrell is someone that's been on the political scene in the UK for more than a decade. It's worth winding the clock back a bit and remembering that he was a
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Deputy Treas, Ukip blast from the past,
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the Brexit campaigning party. And another important thing to know is that he served about eight months in a US prison for wire fraud.
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Yeah, and we've missed out one scarcely believable, but actually true detail, which is that George Cottrell has written a book called how to Launder Money.
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Yes, I've read it three times.
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Have you really?
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I really have. It's a, it's a very interesting book because it does lay out in great detail how one might want to go about laundering money. He describes it as a guide for policymakers. But I think it's incredibly interesting that he's able to offer such detail. When one considers that he was found to have advertised money laundering services on the dark web, he sees it as part of his reform, helping share his knowledge. So as we know, they've got this long standing friendship and political alliance that goes back for many, many years.
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Even though he's only 32, he was
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a very young man when he first entered Nigel Farage's orbit. And as part of that friendship that they argue. But other reporters have suggested this relationship took on a financial element. And they have this key period, the 12 months before someone becomes an MP that falls within a category that means that you should report your financial benefits and any donations, you, gifts you've received in that time if they could be seen to influence you politically. And during that time, Farage was, according to the Sunday Times, were first to Report this. He was receiving accommodation. He was getting a social media team financed for him, building up his, what he's described as his career as an influencer. And those benefits amounted to sort of equivalent to tens of thousands of pounds worth of financial assistance. And that investigation will be resumed after the Clacton by election, by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner as well as the one into the £5 million.
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Yeah. And that accommodation that you referred to, that Cottrell le Nigel Farage is not just any old little flat, is it? It's a five storey house, really, near Buckingham Palace.
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Yes, it is a fancy gaffe and
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Farage never denied this, but he has said that any help Cottrell gave him was not a matter of public interest and that support was irrelevant and literally no one's business, as he wasn't in politics at that time. But didn't Cottrell also pay for some security for Farage?
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Yes, that's another thing that has been described as one of the benefits he's received. Interestingly, Nigel Farager did declare foreign travel paid for by George Cottrell on the Register of interest and that also included security as well. So he seems to have had, going by his description of what the £5 million was for, he seems to have had multiple parties funding his security costs for him.
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And you've since broken a number of stories about George Cottrell's mum. She's quite an intriguing figure, isn't she? Tell us about her and what she has given to reform.
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Fiona Cottrell is often referred to as a former girlfriend of Prince Charles, but I'm sure there's much more to her life than that. But she's the mother of George Cottrell. She lives a quiet life in the countryside, as far as we can establish. And rather than usually because we understand that she's a woman of quite modest means, you know, well to do and everything, but not a multi, multi, multi, multi millionaire, as with other reform donors. She has given a lot of money to reform, so she's done it in two different ways. One of those ways was directly under her own name and these were known about. These donations were public, as is normal. You can see them in the data from the Electoral Commission. And that was a couple of lots in May 2024 of 250 grand, another lot of 250 grand in 2025. But what we revealed is that she gave £1 million just over to Britain Means Business. Now, you might know Britain Means Business by its old name, which is Leave Means Leave.
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Right, yes.
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Which was A fundraising organisation for different Brexit parties in its new guise. Richard Tice, the deputy leader of Reform, is the sole director of Britain Means Business and it acts as a fundraising vehicle for Reform uk. I think one of the things that has struck me and others in this reporting is that this money was rooted in a very unusual way. So it went this 1 million to Britain means Business went via an obscure Australian money exchange service called One Fi. And it's a really unusual thing for someone who by all accounts is not someone who's terribly online, they're not super interested in computing, et cetera, or sort of doing elaborate things online online. To choose an obscure Australian based money exchange service for such a large sum is really something that raises a lot of questions. And the Times has reported that George Cottrell, shortly before that transfer, 48 hours before, had set up a WiFi account. So again, it raises bigger questions about who's really driving this decision making or some of this activity. That money goes in and then Almost immediately, within 48 hours, half of it is transferred into Reform UK just weeks before the general election in June 2024.
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And what could be the advantage of funnelling it via Britain Means Business rather than just giving it straight to Reform?
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Well, it depends on one's perspective, but the key difference is from the outside, is that the source of the donation, the £1 million, was effectively hidden from public view. So it was on the Electoral Commission data, as Britain's Means Business was the donor, not Fiona Cottrell. So that was a key, key difference there.
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Right, okay. So that when the likes of you or our colleague Henry Dyer, who in his spare time seems to like rifling through the Electoral Commission database. Yeah. Wouldn't necessarily raise as many red flags if it was yet another huge donation from this Fiona Cottrell character.
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And even under her own name, she had already been at that time, one of the most important donors to Reform uk.
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Okay, and are you allowed to do that? Are there any questions over the legal To Britain Means Business, that half of
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which was given to Reform, in theory, you can give to organisations that can then give to political parties. That's not necessarily illegal, but what can fall into difficult territory legally, and we know that that's being examined at the moment, is that you shouldn't try to obscure the origins of a donation, because obviously speaking in general terms now, not about this specific donation, but if you were to do that all the time and say, oh, it's Joe Bloggs that gave, but really it's Joe Smith, then you effectively undermine the principle of transparency, which is meant to help keep British elections free and fair. So the question is less about whether or not it was okay to give money to Britain means business, and for that money to be given to reform. Although that is a point of public debate, the bigger question is, and what we also revealed is not only was the 5 million a cause of concern for bankers, who then raised a report with the NCA, this £1 million was a cause of concern for bankers who also reported it to the ncaa. And that was because they were concerned about the origin of this money. They weren't sure where it was coming from. They flagged that there had been large dollar deposits in Fiona Cottrell's account, and they thought there was a risk that it wasn't actually her money moving.
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Okay.
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So they raised those concerns. And we know now that there is a police investigation into the donations made in both May and June by Fiona Cottrell. And we additionally reported that, according to sources, both she and her son George have been interviewed under caution by the police.
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Right. Okay. Even that George is spending most of his time in Montenegro, isn't he? And you had this other exclusive last week about the Cottrells, didn't you? Tell us about that?
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What I revealed, again, relying on my financial industry sources, was that George had made in total $2 million worth of transfers into his mother's account, okay. Within 24 to 72 hours of her donations each time, to Reform UK. So to take one example, there was a deposit of $1.4 million, which, using exchange rate data from the time, is pretty directly comparable to the exact amount of money that was then transferred to Britain's means business.
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And perhaps we can only hypothesise. But why would George Cottrell not just give that money directly to Reform?
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That is a really interesting question. I'm gonna avoid calling it a million dollar question. His lawyers have said that he is a permissible donor, which is jargon for he's allowed to donate even though he's not resident in the uk. You can be what's called an overseas voter, which means you are legally allowed to donate to UK political parties. But what they haven't explained is how he qualifies as a permissible donor when he's resident outside the UK and when he became a permissible donor. So there could be a question over the permissibility of his status. There's also, I guess, a PR media question, which was, were they reluctant to get large amounts of money from someone who's a convicted fraudster or broader Questions about. Okay, according to sources, George transferred the money to his mum. But where did that original money come from? Was it from George directly? But that's speculation, so we don't know at this stage.
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B
And how's George explained himself? I mean, how do you explain giving $2 million to your mum?
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So the lawyers acting for him have at no point denied that their client made large financial gifts to his mother, but they have said that any donations she did make were a decision for
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her and what she said.
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We've attempted to seek comment from Fiona Cottrall several times. She has not responded on each occasion.
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B
Right, so that is Cottrell mother and son. That is Christopher Harborne and his £5 million done. But Richard Tice, who you've already referred to, is also facing some tricky questions, isn't he? And he is the MP for Boston and Lincolnshire, a very wealthy guy himself, and he is the deputy leader of Reform.
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So we've touched on Richard Tice's involvement previously, but just to give a refresher, he's the sole director of Britain Means Business. He was responsible for transferring half a million pounds from Britain Means business into Reform UK. He is additionally facing some questions over an 80,000 pound loan that he received to his company, Tyson Investments Ltd. From George Cottrell. So this was a loan that wasn't declared anywhere, it was secret. He says it was a corporate loan and therefore didn't need to be declared. What's really important is it shows that George is really enmeshed in the finances of both the leader and the deputy leader of this now major political force in the uk. Yeah, they don't seem to see a need for a line between his potential personal or private business involvement in their financial interests and then his role as someone who allegedly helps fundraise for the party and is also potentially helping the party with sort of benefits in kind, so paying for things here and there.
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And just to add to all of this complexity, on Monday the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner announced that it would be investigating Tice for a possible failure to declare an interest. Now, this does not relate to the 80,000 pound loan from Cotterell and in fact, the Commissioner has already declined to investigate that. But Tice says that the investigation is looking at whether I should have referenced my register of interest at the start of a debate. Debate on UK democracy and Israeli influence. Coming up. How damaging is all of this for Farage?
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D
This message comes from Jackson. Taxes aren't something you can only think about once a year, with investments planning for tax days year round. Fortunately, Jackson offers tax efficient products. Visit Jackson.com for more information on how our products can make your tax bill a little bit less painful. Jackson is short for Jackson Financial Incorporated, Jackson National Life Insurance Company, Lansing, Michigan and Jackson National Life Insurance Company of New York, Purchase, New York.
[26:42]
B
Okay, so let me just recap to just check that I've got my head around this. All of the different investigations that are taking place at the moment. You've got Fiona and George Cotterell who've been interviewed by the police under caution. And that is about the donations that son gave mum, that mum gave reform directly and indirectly, is that right?
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According to sources.
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B
According to sources. Okay. And then you've got the National Crime Agency who have been asked by bankers to look into.
[27:07]
A
They've been asked to look into a whole host of different transactions. So that includes the £1 million to Britain means business and that includes the 5 million as well. But that's not the same as a full blown investigation that we've reported as being ongoing with the Metropolitan Police.
[27:22]
B
Yeah, understood. And in terms of the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner, his investigation into Farage, that is paused because currently Farage is not an MP because he has stepped down in order to, as Rachel Rees put it, argue with the bin all summer ahead of the by election, is that right?
[27:36]
A
That's absolutely correct. Although it's important to know win or lose in Clacton, that investigation can still be resumed by the parliamentary authorities once the Clacton vote is over.
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B
And some people might be listening to all of this and thinking, well, all right, it sounds potentially dodgy, but why does this matter, do you think?
[27:52]
A
In one word, transparency. So the British political system absolutely relies on sort of an honour code, which is that people will declare, go above and beyond in their declarations as MPs. So they consider not just one what is a conflict of interest, but they consider what's a perceived conflict of interest. And the British system really relies on that candor. And then what we are seeing is that there are rules and there are laws that surround the electoral commission and how donations in UK politics should work. But there may be a lot of questions that need to be asked about whether or not those are fit for purpose in the modern age, whether or not they fit with the complexity of modern banking. I think there's a concern amongst some of financial industry sources I've spoken with that they feel that they're having to be the front line of keeping an eye on some of these money flows and that really there should be more emphasis on the need for what was in old school terms, know your customer checks, so you should know more about the people and check the origin of funds that are flowing into politics. And I think the big question we face now and what this reporting raises is whether or not does the system do that now?
[29:08]
B
And just how vulnerable a moment is this for Farage, do you think?
[29:11]
A
I think we've seen a real shift in the way he is discussed. Certainly when I'm talking to sources inside the party, it is, well, we think he's in it, he's going to stay in it. Before there was just no question. Reform and Farage were as 1. There was no party without him as a viable political force. There's sort of two aspects. One is that it has grown as a political force and the other is that the way in which he has handled various media reports, but also the nature of those reports has opened up conversations about is he forever? Is he always going to be in charge? Does he really want to be prime minister? Is it always going to be the Farage party people are asking those questions and before they simply weren't. And so I think it's the old adage, well, if you can talk about what happened when the king died, then you're admitting he's mortal. And so I think that is a big shift. And it does suggest that he is more vulnerable than he was, but certainly doesn't suggest that you can just write him off politically. We're a million miles from that.
[30:14]
B
Well, Anna, it was fascinating to talk to you. Thanks for all your reporting. Keep going and hope to have you back on the show very soon. Thanks.
[30:20]
A
Thanks very much.
[30:23]
B
That was Anna Isaac, our city editor. You can read all of her excellent Reporting on Reform UK@theguardian.com and that is all for today. This episode was produced by Natalie Kattena, Elena Biggs and Niloufer or Moraley and presented by me, Helen Pitt. Sound design was by Ross Burns and the executive producers were Humma Khalili and Sammy Kent. We'll be back in your feeds this afternoon with the latest.
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This is the guardian
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foreign.
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D
This message comes from Jackson. Taxes aren't something you can only think about once a year. With investments planning for tax day is year round. Fortunately, Jackson offers tax efficient products. Visit Jackson.com for more information on how our products can make your tax bill a little bit less painful. Jackson is short for Jackson Financial Inc. Jackson National Life Insurance Co. Lansing, Michigan and Jackson National Life Insurance Co. Of New York Purchase, New York.

Summary6 min read

Podcast Summary: Today in Focus

Episode: Nigel Farage and the £5m question that won’t go away

Date: August 4, 2026
Host: Helen Pidd
Guest: Anna Isaac (Guardian City Editor)

Overview

This episode delves into the financial controversies swirling around Nigel Farage and Reform UK, with particular focus on the mysterious £5 million donation from crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne, undeclared support and gifts from George "Posh George" Cottrell, and growing questions about party donations routed through opaque channels. Host Helen Pidd interviews Guardian City Editor Anna Isaac, whose investigative reporting has triggered parliamentary scrutiny, police investigations, and significant political upheaval for Reform UK.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Investigating Reform UK’s Finances

Anna Isaac explains:
- Her motivation arose from the meteoric rise of the Reform party, especially in the post-Brexit landscape.
- The investigation sought to uncover if party donors had changed since the Brexit Party era and whether new fundraising methods were in play.
- “I've always been interested in money meets politics...I was starting to take a closer look at the money behind it.” (04:32)
Challenges faced:
- Party insiders were “very protective,” requiring persistent outreach to both financial industry and new political sources. (05:11)

2. The £5 Million Christopher Harborne Gift

Isaac’s April scoop:
- £5 million was gifted to Farage by Harborne just weeks before the 2024 election. (02:01)
- Farage publicly offered contradictory explanations, alternately calling it “unconditional” and “security costs,” as well as a reward for Brexit campaigning. (02:24, 02:37)
- “I can use it to buy Ferraris if I want. It's unconditional.” – Nigel Farage (02:24)
Political Implications:
- Set off a chain reaction of investigations and parliamentary referrals.
- Farage had previously stated he’d need £1 million a year to re-enter frontline politics, highlighting financial limitations. (06:15)

3. Richard Tice and Leadership Dealings

Negotiations exposed:
- Reports showed Farage and Tice discussing party finance paybacks before Farage’s leadership return, contradicting public claims. (08:14)
- “These discussions were about the amount of money he'd [Tice] loaned to the party and whether or not he'd be repaid for that as part of this process.” (08:14)
Timing questions:
- Farage admitted, for the first time, to holding talks about a leadership comeback in spring 2024, coinciding with the arrival of Harborne’s funds. (09:42–10:29)
- “You'd be a bit of a mug, wouldn't you? To walk into a job and not find out what the potential liabilities were...” – Nigel Farage (10:29)

4. Suspicious Activity Reports & Money Laundering Concerns

Bankers’ red flags:
- Both Harborne’s and Cottrell donations prompted bank “suspicious activity reports” to the National Crime Agency (NCA), indicating potential risks of money laundering (12:28)
- “They thought there was a risk that it wasn't actually her money moving.” – Anna Isaac, on Fiona Cottrell donations (21:31)
Farage & Harborne’s response:
- Farage insists on the legitimacy of funds; Harborne’s lawyers sidestep specifics. (13:12)

5. George “Posh George” Cottrell and Unusual Donations

Background:
- Longtime Farage ally, former UKIP deputy treasurer, served US prison time for wire fraud, and authored "How to Launder Money." (13:44, 14:05)
- “It's a very interesting book because it does lay out in great detail how one might want to go about laundering money.” – Anna Isaac (14:16)
Undeclared gifts:
- Cottrell provided accommodation and campaign services to Farage, possibly breaching parliamentary disclosure rules. (14:52–15:48)
- Lavish benefits included a five-storey house near Buckingham Palace and security payments. (15:48)
Fiona Cottrell’s involvement:
- George’s mother, Fiona, routed over £1 million through Britain Means Business using obscure Australian money transfer services. (16:56–17:57)
- Her “modest means” contrast with the scale and complexity of donations.

6. Donation Structures and Legality

Britain Means Business:
- Fronted by Richard Tice, received Fiona Cottrell’s routed funds, which then went to Reform UK, obscuring donor identity in Electoral Commission records. (17:57–19:22)
- Legal but transparency is questionable; could undermine election fairness.
George Cottrell’s direct funding:
- Transferred at least $2 million into his mother’s account, perfectly timed with her political donations. Legality hinges on his status as a “permissible donor,” which remains unclear. (22:02–22:41)
- Lawyers have not denied gifts but emphasize donation decisions rested with Fiona. (23:45)

7. Richard Tice’s Further Financial Entanglements

Undeclared loans:
- Received a secret £80,000 loan from George Cottrell; claims it was a corporate loan not requiring disclosure. (24:21)
Current investigations:
- Tice faces a separate Parliamentary Standards Commissioner inquiry for another possible undeclared interest, adding to the party’s woes. (25:26–25:56)

8. Broader Political and Legal Ramifications

Ongoing investigations:
- NCA and Metropolitan Police are actively examining Cottrell and Harborne donations.
- Parliamentary Standards Commissioner probes paused only while Farage is out of Parliament but can resume post-election. (27:22–27:46)
Why this matters:
- “In one word, transparency.” – Anna Isaac (27:52)
- UK’s honour-based system relies on transparency and over-disclosure to ensure fair elections. Modern finance complexities challenge these old structures.

9. Farage’s Political Vulnerability

New narrative emerging:
- Farage, long seen as irreplaceable, now faces serious questions about his future and grip over Reform UK due to the ongoing scandals. (29:10)
- “If you can talk about what happened when the king died, then you're admitting he's mortal…he is more vulnerable than he was, but certainly doesn't suggest that you can just write him off politically.” – Anna Isaac (29:10)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

On Farage’s justification for the £5m:
- “I can use it to buy Ferraris if I want. It's unconditional.” – Nigel Farage (02:24)
On banking industry concerns:
- “They're saying, look, we think something may have happened here, but we need you guys to check.” – Anna Isaac (12:28)
On George Cottrell's “How to Launder Money”:
- “It's a very interesting book because it does lay out in great detail how one might want to go about laundering money.” – Anna Isaac (14:16)
On transparency in politics:
- “In one word, transparency.” – Anna Isaac (27:52)
On Farage’s vulnerability:
- “...if you can talk about what happened when the king died, then you're admitting he's mortal.” – Anna Isaac (29:10)

Notable Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Theme | |-----------|---------------| | 04:32 | Motivation for financial investigation into Reform UK | | 06:15 | Context on Farage's financial demands to stand as MP | | 08:14 | Details of Farage-Tice leadership and finance deal discussions | | 09:42 | Farage’s press conference: first admission of spring negotiations | | 12:28 | Bankers’ suspicious activity reports explained | | 14:05 | George Cottrell’s background and criminal history | | 16:56 | Fiona Cottrell’s unusual donation routing via Australia | | 21:31 | Police and NCA investigate origin of donations | | 22:02 | Details of George’s transfers to Fiona and donation timing | | 24:21 | Richard Tice’s undeclared loan and financial connections | | 27:52 | Broader importance: transparency and the British political system | | 29:10 | Shifting perceptions of Farage’s grip on Reform UK and political vulnerability |

Conclusion

The episode demonstrates how intertwining money, political ambition, and a lack of transparency threatens the credibility of parties like Reform UK. Through Anna Isaac’s intricate reporting, listeners gain a clearer picture of the swirling investigations and the systemic vulnerabilities exposed in the UK’s political finance apparatus. While the ultimate outcome for Farage remains uncertain, the £5 million question continues to cast a shadow over his leadership and Britain’s political landscape.

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Transcript107 lines

[00:00]
A
This is the Guardian.
[00:09]
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Today. Nigel Farage's money problems.
[00:17]
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Today In Focus is supported by Paramount. Plus, this isn't the end of a fight, it's the start of one. Lioness, the critically acclaimed original series from
[00:29]
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Taylor Sheridan, is now streaming only on Paramount.
[00:34]
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In the new season, hidden networks, foreign operatives and personal betrayals collide. Meanwhile, Jo walks the line between duty
[00:43]
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and family as unseen forces circle her world, leaving her to reckon with a war that now reaches into every part of her life. Don't miss the new season of Lioness,
[00:56]
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starring Zoe Saldana and Michael Kelly, with
[00:59]
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Morgan Freeman and Nicole Kidman, now streaming only on Paramount. For a while earlier this year, it looked like nothing could stop Nigel Farage heading for Downing Street. Not the allegations of schoolboy racism. UK leader Nigel Farage has publicly denied
[01:25]
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that he ever, and these are his
[01:27]
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words, directly racially abused anybody. It follows the dodgy cameo videos Wag
[01:32]
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wan Ted, you sussy jungus. I hope you have a POG birthday.
[01:37]
B
Remember, Brexit means not the £400,000 he trousered for advertising gold bullion.
[01:44]
C
Generations of my family worked here in the City of London, including me in the metals business. Now behind me is the bank of England. That's where our national gold reserves are held. But hey, you can hold gold too.
[01:55]
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Then at the end of April, Guardian City editor Anna Isaac delivered a game changing scoop.
[02:01]
A
So that was a £5 million gift, as Nigel Farage has termed it, from Christopher Harborne, who is a cryptocurrency billionaire, and it emerged that he had given this huge lump sum to Nigel Farage just weeks before the 2024 general election.
[02:20]
B
Farage has come up with all manner of explanations for the gift from I
[02:24]
A
can use it to buy Ferraris if I want. It's unconditional. It was unconditional, but it was absolutely predicated on security costs and also that it was a reward for Brexit campaigning.
[02:38]
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It set off a domino run of allegations against the Reform leader and other reform figures, including his deputy leader.
[02:44]
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Some breaking news Reform UK MP for Boston Skegness Richard Tice is being investigated by parliamentary authorities over an alleged failure to declare interest, the parliamentary whisper standards confirmed earlier this morning.
[02:55]
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Investigation and George Cottrell, better known as Posh George, who served time in a US jail for wire fraud.
[03:02]
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His name's George Cottrell and he's in the news because he financially supported Farage in the year before he became an mp and the Reform UK leader didn't
[03:10]
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register the benefit, which is why several parties have referred him to Parliament standards watchdog.
[03:15]
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And on the weekend, new revelations emerged about an alleged deal struck between Tice and Farage, suggesting Farage had decided to return to politics before that 5 million pounds landed in his bank account. And the awkward questions keep coming.
[03:30]
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In 2024, did you negotiate a deal on what would happen to Reform's finances
[03:35]
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if you came back as leader at a time when you were suggesting you had no plans to return to electoral policy?
[03:41]
A
Can you be absolutely clear and honest? When did you start thinking about returning
[03:47]
C
to Parliament and becoming the leader of the Republican Party? I was being bullied.
[03:53]
B
From the Guardian, I'm Helen Peard. Today in Focus, farage and the 5 million pound question that won't go away. Anna Isaac, welcome back to Today in Focus. Nice to see you.
[04:07]
A
Nice to be here.
[04:08]
B
So you're the Guardian City editor, but I think you deserve another title, which is the Guardian Scoop Queen, because your reporting on reform has, I really do think, changed the political weather so much in the past few months. So I salute you and I'm very glad that you're here today. And there have been so many twists and turns to all of these stories, and we're going to get into all of those. But can you start by telling us what made you want to look into Reform's finances?
[04:32]
A
I've always been interested in money meets politics, but I think for a long time you were looking at this extraordinary ascendancy of this political party. Right. So although it had existed for a few years, it was still regarded as very new in sort of national major politics beyond the Brexit issue, when it came to the 2024 election. And I was starting to take a closer look at the money behind it. And who was Dr. And were they the same people that had supported the Brexit party, its precursor, or were we seeing some new faces or different ways of political party fundraising? And that's what sort of led me towards these recent stories.
[05:07]
B
And how difficult was it to delve into their finances and to follow the trail of the money?
[05:11]
A
It can be tough. It can take a really long time. It's a group of people around the party who feel very protective of it, who feel that a lot of the media isn't giving it a fair hearing and things like that, and so had to work pretty hard, both working sort of financial industry sources, which obviously have a background in, but also working on new sources and trying to explain. It was just about telling the facts.
[05:35]
B
And you had this, I'm going to say, bombshell splash back in April this year. About the 5 million pound donation that Farage received from this mysterious crypto billionaire, Christopher Harborne. And that was a time when reform were leading in the polls. How things can change. And as a result of that 5 million pound gift and your story that revealed it, Farage was referred to the Standards Watchdog, wasn't he, at Parliament then? You've also reported remarks that he made, I think, back in March 2024. Farage, this is when he said that he would need £1 million a year to stand as an MP. And that was just a month before he accepted this gift. Talk to me about that story.
[06:15]
A
There was a lot of will he, won't he, within Reform, basically from January onwards in 2024, would Farage stand? Would he not a big concern, according to sources that he had, was he, at that time he would have to give up his gig presenting on GB News.
[06:31]
C
Why am I here? Why have I decided to join GB News full on? Not just to come in on a Sunday morning, but to launch this show tonight, Farage. And I'll be here Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday from 7pm till 8pm Very lucrative gig.
[06:45]
A
Very, very lucrative gig. We know because of disclosures he's since made about what he's paid by GB News, that he argues this money includes VAT and various things, but in terms of actual direct payment to his company, Thorne, in the. He gets about a million a year, roughly speaking, at that time, that was the kind of money he was earning. And his concern was that, remember he went on the record in 2017 and said he was skint and there's no money in politics. And he's repeated that phrase there's no money in politics many times.
[07:12]
C
There's no money in politics if you're straight, if you're currently.
[07:15]
A
And he was of a view, according to sources, that he was really going to miss out, he was going to put himself in financial hardship again, potentially, by going back into what he termed frontline politics, although he was campaigning for reform at this time, and he just felt like that trade off was too tough. And he said that to senior figures in Reform and to some party funders. And I just think that's really important context for us to have in mind when we look at the fact that he was given this £5 million.
[07:42]
B
Yeah. And it's probably worth us pointing out here that Farage, or at least his office, have never denied that he did say that he would need a million pound a year to go back into politics. But when you went to them for a response, they. The office said, quote, Mr. Farage says he does not feel any answer he gives to you will be reflected accurately. So there you go. Yeah. And then this weekend came yet more revelations about the timing of Farage's return to politics. Tell me about them.
[08:15]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So in the Sunday Times, we had a story about negotiations that were happening in March and April in 2024. And these talks were ultimately about a deal for the return to leadership of the party for Nigel Farage. But in some sense it's more of a deal for Richard Tice. These discussions were about the amount of money he'd loaned to the party and whether or not he'd be repaid for that as part of this process of virage, returning to the leadership position. Because let's remember that Richard Tice was leader for a long time and his money really propped up the party and kept it in survival mode for several years. So that's the context. But it's really critical that he was having these discussions in March and April at a time when he said he was not actively involved in frontline politics. So this is a really important development and it does fit with our previous reporting about some of the discussions he was having, talking about coming back to this frontline role and standing in the next election.
[09:16]
B
Yeah. And he addressed this story at a press conference on Monday. And Farage press conferences last year were ten a penny. He was doing one every single week. But he's been somewhat missing in action since your story about the revelation of the £5 million earlier in SP. What did you make about the fact that he decided to give this press conference, which was ostensibly about immigration and using navy boats to repel small boat migrants, and what he had to say about the latest revelations.
[09:43]
A
I think what was really significant is that there was sort of a few things that built up to form pressure on him, I think, to take this big public stand today. And for the first time, he acknowledged that there were live discussions about his return during the spring.
[09:57]
C
I had no intention of returning to politics or as leader of reform, but in the spring of that year, I did talk to Richard Tice about what the liabilities would be if. If I was to come back to that position.
[10:14]
A
He hit back at it being called a deal, but he said it was perfectly reasonable for him to work out what the liabilities might be if he were to take on the leadership. When he was considering whether or not to do that in March and April of 2024, that cr.
[10:30]
C
You'd be a bit of a mug, wouldn't you? To walk into a job and not find out what the potential liabilities were, and they were substantial.
[10:38]
A
He did try to say that these talks came after the gift, but given that they've been defined as being in March and April, and lawyers for Christopher Harborne told us the gift was in on the 5th of April, that would be tricky timing wise. Also, other reporting, we have suggested that some of the money arrived much later, in late May. So there are still very big questions about the timing. But it's really interesting that he's acknowledging for the first time that there were these discussions and that he was toing and froing on his decision.
[11:11]
B
And when Farage turned up for his press conference in Westminster on Monday, he will have known full well that he would also face questions about his financial affairs. What do you think we can read into the fact that he did subject himself to this questioning?
[11:23]
A
I think he appeared to be making a very concerted effort to be more relaxed in front of media. His tone was very different. He was working very hard to maintain a very calm manner, even when he was asked about things that had made him extremely angry in recent months and weeks. When it came to what he said was outrageous treatment of his family by the press, he seemed very much keen to maintain this very, very calm tone. And he made a point of saying sort of, we don't want to be seen to be whingeing. And that's a real shift in tone there from his previous position where he was very much a sort of us versus with the media.
[12:02]
B
And right now, Farage is, of course, campaigning in a by election where his main opponent is Count Bin Face. And we're going to bring listeners an episode from Clacton in the next week. But the timing of him calling that by election raised eyebrows, didn't it, in the Guardian offices because it came after you had found out that the National Crime Agency was looking into the origin of that 5 million pound gift because bankers had apparently raised concerns that there was a potential risk of money laundering.
[12:29]
A
The key thing to understand, and they're called suspicious activity reports, to give you the jargon, these are bankers going, hmm, we have reasons to think that this might be a problem, reasons to think that there could be money laundering involved. So we are sending a report off to the National Crime Agency to say to them, look, this is one for you guys to take a look at and decide whether or not you want to investigate, right? It is not the same as a crime report, okay? If they found out that there was definitely a crime and they knew for sure then they would make a report to the police. Yeah, these are a level, they're in a separate category from that. They're saying, look, we think something may have happened here, but we need you guys to check.
[13:07]
B
Ok, and what have Farage and Christopher Harborne had to say about the origins of that 5 million?
[13:12]
A
Nigel Farage has said that he had no reason to doubt the origin of the funds. And lawyers for Christopher Harborne haven't addressed directly the question of where the £5 million comes from.
[13:23]
B
Okay, and let's talk about another of Farage's friends, a younger friend in this case, a guy called George Cottrell. We've talked about him on the podcast before. He's often better known by his nickname, Posh George. Remind us who he is and how questions about him started to swirl and his involvement in funding Farage and Reform uk.
[13:44]
A
So George Cottrell is someone that's been on the political scene in the UK for more than a decade. It's worth winding the clock back a bit and remembering that he was a
[13:53]
B
Deputy Treas, Ukip blast from the past,
[13:56]
A
the Brexit campaigning party. And another important thing to know is that he served about eight months in a US prison for wire fraud.
[14:05]
B
Yeah, and we've missed out one scarcely believable, but actually true detail, which is that George Cottrell has written a book called how to Launder Money.
[14:13]
A
Yes, I've read it three times.
[14:15]
B
Have you really?
[14:16]
A
I really have. It's a, it's a very interesting book because it does lay out in great detail how one might want to go about laundering money. He describes it as a guide for policymakers. But I think it's incredibly interesting that he's able to offer such detail. When one considers that he was found to have advertised money laundering services on the dark web, he sees it as part of his reform, helping share his knowledge. So as we know, they've got this long standing friendship and political alliance that goes back for many, many years.
[14:50]
B
Even though he's only 32, he was
[14:53]
A
a very young man when he first entered Nigel Farage's orbit. And as part of that friendship that they argue. But other reporters have suggested this relationship took on a financial element. And they have this key period, the 12 months before someone becomes an MP that falls within a category that means that you should report your financial benefits and any donations, you, gifts you've received in that time if they could be seen to influence you politically. And during that time, Farage was, according to the Sunday Times, were first to Report this. He was receiving accommodation. He was getting a social media team financed for him, building up his, what he's described as his career as an influencer. And those benefits amounted to sort of equivalent to tens of thousands of pounds worth of financial assistance. And that investigation will be resumed after the Clacton by election, by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner as well as the one into the £5 million.
[15:49]
B
Yeah. And that accommodation that you referred to, that Cottrell le Nigel Farage is not just any old little flat, is it? It's a five storey house, really, near Buckingham Palace.
[15:58]
A
Yes, it is a fancy gaffe and
[16:01]
B
Farage never denied this, but he has said that any help Cottrell gave him was not a matter of public interest and that support was irrelevant and literally no one's business, as he wasn't in politics at that time. But didn't Cottrell also pay for some security for Farage?
[16:19]
A
Yes, that's another thing that has been described as one of the benefits he's received. Interestingly, Nigel Farager did declare foreign travel paid for by George Cottrell on the Register of interest and that also included security as well. So he seems to have had, going by his description of what the £5 million was for, he seems to have had multiple parties funding his security costs for him.
[16:47]
B
And you've since broken a number of stories about George Cottrell's mum. She's quite an intriguing figure, isn't she? Tell us about her and what she has given to reform.
[16:57]
A
Fiona Cottrell is often referred to as a former girlfriend of Prince Charles, but I'm sure there's much more to her life than that. But she's the mother of George Cottrell. She lives a quiet life in the countryside, as far as we can establish. And rather than usually because we understand that she's a woman of quite modest means, you know, well to do and everything, but not a multi, multi, multi, multi millionaire, as with other reform donors. She has given a lot of money to reform, so she's done it in two different ways. One of those ways was directly under her own name and these were known about. These donations were public, as is normal. You can see them in the data from the Electoral Commission. And that was a couple of lots in May 2024 of 250 grand, another lot of 250 grand in 2025. But what we revealed is that she gave £1 million just over to Britain Means Business. Now, you might know Britain Means Business by its old name, which is Leave Means Leave.
[17:56]
B
Right, yes.
[17:57]
A
Which was A fundraising organisation for different Brexit parties in its new guise. Richard Tice, the deputy leader of Reform, is the sole director of Britain Means Business and it acts as a fundraising vehicle for Reform uk. I think one of the things that has struck me and others in this reporting is that this money was rooted in a very unusual way. So it went this 1 million to Britain means Business went via an obscure Australian money exchange service called One Fi. And it's a really unusual thing for someone who by all accounts is not someone who's terribly online, they're not super interested in computing, et cetera, or sort of doing elaborate things online online. To choose an obscure Australian based money exchange service for such a large sum is really something that raises a lot of questions. And the Times has reported that George Cottrell, shortly before that transfer, 48 hours before, had set up a WiFi account. So again, it raises bigger questions about who's really driving this decision making or some of this activity. That money goes in and then Almost immediately, within 48 hours, half of it is transferred into Reform UK just weeks before the general election in June 2024.
[19:18]
B
And what could be the advantage of funnelling it via Britain Means Business rather than just giving it straight to Reform?
[19:23]
A
Well, it depends on one's perspective, but the key difference is from the outside, is that the source of the donation, the £1 million, was effectively hidden from public view. So it was on the Electoral Commission data, as Britain's Means Business was the donor, not Fiona Cottrell. So that was a key, key difference there.
[19:45]
B
Right, okay. So that when the likes of you or our colleague Henry Dyer, who in his spare time seems to like rifling through the Electoral Commission database. Yeah. Wouldn't necessarily raise as many red flags if it was yet another huge donation from this Fiona Cottrell character.
[20:00]
A
And even under her own name, she had already been at that time, one of the most important donors to Reform uk.
[20:07]
B
Okay, and are you allowed to do that? Are there any questions over the legal To Britain Means Business, that half of
[20:14]
A
which was given to Reform, in theory, you can give to organisations that can then give to political parties. That's not necessarily illegal, but what can fall into difficult territory legally, and we know that that's being examined at the moment, is that you shouldn't try to obscure the origins of a donation, because obviously speaking in general terms now, not about this specific donation, but if you were to do that all the time and say, oh, it's Joe Bloggs that gave, but really it's Joe Smith, then you effectively undermine the principle of transparency, which is meant to help keep British elections free and fair. So the question is less about whether or not it was okay to give money to Britain means business, and for that money to be given to reform. Although that is a point of public debate, the bigger question is, and what we also revealed is not only was the 5 million a cause of concern for bankers, who then raised a report with the NCA, this £1 million was a cause of concern for bankers who also reported it to the ncaa. And that was because they were concerned about the origin of this money. They weren't sure where it was coming from. They flagged that there had been large dollar deposits in Fiona Cottrell's account, and they thought there was a risk that it wasn't actually her money moving.
[21:32]
B
Okay.
[21:32]
A
So they raised those concerns. And we know now that there is a police investigation into the donations made in both May and June by Fiona Cottrell. And we additionally reported that, according to sources, both she and her son George have been interviewed under caution by the police.
[21:51]
B
Right. Okay. Even that George is spending most of his time in Montenegro, isn't he? And you had this other exclusive last week about the Cottrells, didn't you? Tell us about that?
[22:02]
A
What I revealed, again, relying on my financial industry sources, was that George had made in total $2 million worth of transfers into his mother's account, okay. Within 24 to 72 hours of her donations each time, to Reform UK. So to take one example, there was a deposit of $1.4 million, which, using exchange rate data from the time, is pretty directly comparable to the exact amount of money that was then transferred to Britain's means business.
[22:34]
B
And perhaps we can only hypothesise. But why would George Cottrell not just give that money directly to Reform?
[22:42]
A
That is a really interesting question. I'm gonna avoid calling it a million dollar question. His lawyers have said that he is a permissible donor, which is jargon for he's allowed to donate even though he's not resident in the uk. You can be what's called an overseas voter, which means you are legally allowed to donate to UK political parties. But what they haven't explained is how he qualifies as a permissible donor when he's resident outside the UK and when he became a permissible donor. So there could be a question over the permissibility of his status. There's also, I guess, a PR media question, which was, were they reluctant to get large amounts of money from someone who's a convicted fraudster or broader Questions about. Okay, according to sources, George transferred the money to his mum. But where did that original money come from? Was it from George directly? But that's speculation, so we don't know at this stage.
[23:39]
B
And how's George explained himself? I mean, how do you explain giving $2 million to your mum?
[23:45]
A
So the lawyers acting for him have at no point denied that their client made large financial gifts to his mother, but they have said that any donations she did make were a decision for
[23:56]
B
her and what she said.
[23:57]
A
We've attempted to seek comment from Fiona Cottrall several times. She has not responded on each occasion.
[24:05]
B
Right, so that is Cottrell mother and son. That is Christopher Harborne and his £5 million done. But Richard Tice, who you've already referred to, is also facing some tricky questions, isn't he? And he is the MP for Boston and Lincolnshire, a very wealthy guy himself, and he is the deputy leader of Reform.
[24:22]
A
So we've touched on Richard Tice's involvement previously, but just to give a refresher, he's the sole director of Britain Means Business. He was responsible for transferring half a million pounds from Britain Means business into Reform UK. He is additionally facing some questions over an 80,000 pound loan that he received to his company, Tyson Investments Ltd. From George Cottrell. So this was a loan that wasn't declared anywhere, it was secret. He says it was a corporate loan and therefore didn't need to be declared. What's really important is it shows that George is really enmeshed in the finances of both the leader and the deputy leader of this now major political force in the uk. Yeah, they don't seem to see a need for a line between his potential personal or private business involvement in their financial interests and then his role as someone who allegedly helps fundraise for the party and is also potentially helping the party with sort of benefits in kind, so paying for things here and there.
[25:27]
B
And just to add to all of this complexity, on Monday the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner announced that it would be investigating Tice for a possible failure to declare an interest. Now, this does not relate to the 80,000 pound loan from Cotterell and in fact, the Commissioner has already declined to investigate that. But Tice says that the investigation is looking at whether I should have referenced my register of interest at the start of a debate. Debate on UK democracy and Israeli influence. Coming up. How damaging is all of this for Farage?
[26:12]
D
This message comes from Jackson. Taxes aren't something you can only think about once a year, with investments planning for tax days year round. Fortunately, Jackson offers tax efficient products. Visit Jackson.com for more information on how our products can make your tax bill a little bit less painful. Jackson is short for Jackson Financial Incorporated, Jackson National Life Insurance Company, Lansing, Michigan and Jackson National Life Insurance Company of New York, Purchase, New York.
[26:42]
B
Okay, so let me just recap to just check that I've got my head around this. All of the different investigations that are taking place at the moment. You've got Fiona and George Cotterell who've been interviewed by the police under caution. And that is about the donations that son gave mum, that mum gave reform directly and indirectly, is that right?
[26:58]
A
According to sources.
[26:59]
B
According to sources. Okay. And then you've got the National Crime Agency who have been asked by bankers to look into.
[27:07]
A
They've been asked to look into a whole host of different transactions. So that includes the £1 million to Britain means business and that includes the 5 million as well. But that's not the same as a full blown investigation that we've reported as being ongoing with the Metropolitan Police.
[27:22]
B
Yeah, understood. And in terms of the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner, his investigation into Farage, that is paused because currently Farage is not an MP because he has stepped down in order to, as Rachel Rees put it, argue with the bin all summer ahead of the by election, is that right?
[27:36]
A
That's absolutely correct. Although it's important to know win or lose in Clacton, that investigation can still be resumed by the parliamentary authorities once the Clacton vote is over.
[27:46]
B
And some people might be listening to all of this and thinking, well, all right, it sounds potentially dodgy, but why does this matter, do you think?
[27:52]
A
In one word, transparency. So the British political system absolutely relies on sort of an honour code, which is that people will declare, go above and beyond in their declarations as MPs. So they consider not just one what is a conflict of interest, but they consider what's a perceived conflict of interest. And the British system really relies on that candor. And then what we are seeing is that there are rules and there are laws that surround the electoral commission and how donations in UK politics should work. But there may be a lot of questions that need to be asked about whether or not those are fit for purpose in the modern age, whether or not they fit with the complexity of modern banking. I think there's a concern amongst some of financial industry sources I've spoken with that they feel that they're having to be the front line of keeping an eye on some of these money flows and that really there should be more emphasis on the need for what was in old school terms, know your customer checks, so you should know more about the people and check the origin of funds that are flowing into politics. And I think the big question we face now and what this reporting raises is whether or not does the system do that now?
[29:08]
B
And just how vulnerable a moment is this for Farage, do you think?
[29:11]
A
I think we've seen a real shift in the way he is discussed. Certainly when I'm talking to sources inside the party, it is, well, we think he's in it, he's going to stay in it. Before there was just no question. Reform and Farage were as 1. There was no party without him as a viable political force. There's sort of two aspects. One is that it has grown as a political force and the other is that the way in which he has handled various media reports, but also the nature of those reports has opened up conversations about is he forever? Is he always going to be in charge? Does he really want to be prime minister? Is it always going to be the Farage party people are asking those questions and before they simply weren't. And so I think it's the old adage, well, if you can talk about what happened when the king died, then you're admitting he's mortal. And so I think that is a big shift. And it does suggest that he is more vulnerable than he was, but certainly doesn't suggest that you can just write him off politically. We're a million miles from that.
[30:14]
B
Well, Anna, it was fascinating to talk to you. Thanks for all your reporting. Keep going and hope to have you back on the show very soon. Thanks.
[30:20]
A
Thanks very much.
[30:23]
B
That was Anna Isaac, our city editor. You can read all of her excellent Reporting on Reform UK@theguardian.com and that is all for today. This episode was produced by Natalie Kattena, Elena Biggs and Niloufer or Moraley and presented by me, Helen Pitt. Sound design was by Ross Burns and the executive producers were Humma Khalili and Sammy Kent. We'll be back in your feeds this afternoon with the latest.
[30:50]
A
This is the guardian
[30:55]
C
foreign.
[31:00]
D
This message comes from Jackson. Taxes aren't something you can only think about once a year. With investments planning for tax day is year round. Fortunately, Jackson offers tax efficient products. Visit Jackson.com for more information on how our products can make your tax bill a little bit less painful. Jackson is short for Jackson Financial Inc. Jackson National Life Insurance Co. Lansing, Michigan and Jackson National Life Insurance Co. Of New York Purchase, New York.