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Starmer clings on amid Labour deadlock - The Latest
00:12:19
Can the prime minister survive calls for his resignation or has he run out of road? Lucy Hough speaks to senior political correspondent Peter Walker
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- [00:00]
A
This is the Guardian.
- [00:11]
B
If Labour messes this up, then the chances are we have a Nigel Farage government. I know that people are frustrated and some people frustrated with me. Keir Starmer promised the gesture, but it wasn't holiday to the Maldives. It was like a £3.99 bunch of roses from the garage down the road for a lot of Labour and peace. Something needs to change. The question is what and where? I know I have my doubters and I know I need to prove them wrong and I will. This kind of whole game theory that a lot of what you do depends on what other people do and it's very, very hard to predict. Very fast moving. We're still in this deadlock, really.
- [00:46]
A
Keir Starmer is fighting for his political survival as a make or break speech fails to calm mutinous MPs and calls Grove for him to go by September. From the Guardians today in Focus, this is the latest. With me, Lucy Hoffman. Well, I'm joined by Peter Walker, our senior political correspondent. Thanks for dialing in from Westminster, Peter, on a very dramatic and fast moving day and a very dramatic weekend in the way.
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B
Dramatic today up to a point, as much as Keir Starmo manages drama.
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A
But yes, yes, yes, that's a fair point. But nonetheless, Labour sort of mopping up the catastrophe of the loss of nearly 1500 seats last week in the local elections. An unexpected leadership challenge yesterday from Labour MPK Catherine west, and then a make or break speech by the Prime Minister this morning in London to the public, but predominantly, I think it's safe to say, to his MPs, effectively asking them not to sack him and to give him a little more time. Give us a rundown of the state of play. We're talking at about half two on Monday.
- [01:52]
B
To an extent, the state of play is largely where we were, you know, where we have been in the days since the elections which weren't so bad for Labour on Thursday. There are a lot of Labour MPs who are very, very peeved with the way things are going. More than peeved, really. They're incredibly worried about this idea that the elections, not just across English councils to an extent in Scotland, but mainly in Wales, where Labour did really, really badly. They think it shows that Keir Starmer is not turning things around, that they're losing votes to reform on the right and the Greens on the left. And they have this really kind of dreadful worry, which Keir Starmer articulated in his speech to an extent, that if Labour messed this up, then the chances are we Have a Nigel Farage government going into number 10 in a couple of years time or maybe three years time. And for a lot of Labour and peace, that worries them enormously. So if you speak to almost any of them kind of privately, they will say something needs to change. The question is what and when. And to an extent, we still are where we are, that there's a smallish number of likely leadership contenders, so we're streeting the most obvious one, Angela Rayner, perhaps Andy Burnham can get back into Parliament, but no one has as yet fired the starting gun. So, you know, we're still in this deadlock, really.
- [03:11]
A
So for Keir Starmer, I mean, it was a, I think, safe to say, a heartfelt speech, you know, with his sleeves rolled up. He spoke a lot about his family, his working class roots. He spoke about. He took accountability for the losses of last week, full accountability, and promised a sort of new direction of travel. But for Labour MPs, the sort of sense that we're getting is it wasn't quite enough to win back hearts and minds. What are you hearing?
- [03:38]
B
I mean, it was. It was a decent speech. In terms of Keir Starmer speeches, it was a probably solid 8 out of 10. But the sense I got from Labour MPs is that they just wanted something more, they wanted something different. It's kind of like, I don't know if, like a marriage is on the rocks and one partner keeps on getting things wrong and the other one is saying, God, make a massive gesture. And Keir Starmer promised the gesture, but it wasn't holiday to the Maldives. It was like a 3.99 bunch of roses from the garage down the road. It's stuff. They seen it market flowers. But anyway, Right, that's the. Anyone listening? That's Julie noted. But I think it was not only the delivery that they wanted, but they wanted some more substance. Because what a lot of Labour mps are increasingly realizing is that when reform wins seats, particularly in the kind of northern, quote, red wall areas, and also in some of the London councils too, because Labour are losing votes not only to them, but also to the Greens, which is splitting the left vote. And what a lot of them want is. I mean, they understand the rationale for having a kind of reasonably robust immigration offer. So reform, don't hoover up every single small C Conservative vote, but they want some kind of offering to show to voters who might be tempted to go green, you know, look, you can go with us. And I think it would have probably had to be something big. They're Quite scuppered by the fact there's no money around. But I mean, I don't know, I don't make the policies, but it could have been a nod towards electoral reform or closer links with Europe. He did talk about Europe quite a lot and interestingly said he thought Brexit had made the UK less secure and less rich, which is quite something.
- [05:17]
A
Which was a direct attack line against Nigel Farage, who he said promised you the world when he campaigned for Brexit, secured Brexit in no small part and failed Britain as a nation. I just want to talk about this intervention from Catherine west, which has been really interesting over the weekend, I think it's safe to say, not a household name that was on the front page of Sunday newspapers yesterday with this direct leadership challenge, the first to put her head above the parapet. She's since in the wake of this speech, said it was a good speech, but it's too little, too late. She's rode back from her direct leadership challenge, but she set out a timetable of September for a sort of orderly transition which would require signatures of 81 MPs, 20% of the parliamentary Labour Party to back that. Where do things stand there? How much of a risk is Starmer facing?
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B
It's difficult to say because the one practical point to note is that even if she did have more than 81 MPs replying to this email she sent to all Labour MPs saying, Yes, I do want him to set a timetable that has no force. If you have 81 MPs saying that they're going to back you to challenge for the leadership under Labour rules, that does mean something. But just saying, we would like him to go at a certain point, you know, it doesn't force him to do anything. It has the kind of effect of being a no confidence letter. But you'd probably need more than 80 mps to do that. With west, it's quite interesting because no one expected that she is, you know, a reasonably long serving mp. She represents a North London constituency. I've been talking to people who know her and who understand the rationale for what she did and apparently she was sitting watching the results come in and she's a former council leader and she saw so many friends in North London councils just lose their seats and she's getting more and more angry and thinking, surely someone's going to do something. But then no one did and apparently she decided to just immediately act before everyone got back to Westminster. And she was basically talked round from doing it. But I think the Reason that she's had this slight switch from being a direct leadership challenge to be this call for him to go to a certain time is it gives everyone a bit more time. And apparently her feeling is she doesn't want to have a leadership change which people feel they were pushed into, which feels like a stitch up. If it does take place, she wants it to happen in a kind of
- [07:43]
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orderly way and one that doesn't resemble the sort of Tory regicide chaos of the 14 years where Prime Ministers were so often toppled. And that's something that Labour is very keen to avoid. But interestingly, Starmer, in response to our own political editor, Pippa Kreira, said he intends to fight any leadership challenge. So it's looking like regardless of what plays out, it could get very messy in terms of the contenders. I mean, you outlined some of the names that, you know, regularly circulate. West Streeting, Andy Burnham and Angela Rayner. Ed Miliband's name is also being floated as a perhaps a sort of temporary
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bridge leader stand him, Andy Burnham.
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Well, I'm sure he'd love that, Monica. But what do we know? I mean, eyes are on Wes Streeting, right, whose leadership ambitions are no secret. Is there any sense that he is planning to move or does he agree with this idea that we'd be better if it was done in an orderly fashion closer to the autumn?
- [08:41]
B
There's a lot of people who believe he is going to move over the weekend. There were, you know, reasonably well informed people who were saying, look, he's going to do it, he's going on Monday, you know, it's all in train. But then when you put it to Streeting's allies, as we're obliged to call him, they were going, no, absolutely not. And they point to the fact that Streeting, after elections on Thursday, did put out a supportive tweet or statement. I think the sense with him is that he still doesn't want to be the first person, even though he might be. Yeah, but if someone else went for it, then he would. There is an incentive for him to go early in the sense of if he did wait until, say, September, Andy Burnham might be back in the Commons, Right. And would probably have a better chance of winning over the Labour membership in a final vote. But it's like this kind of whole game theory that a lot of what you do depends on what other people do, and it's very, very hard to predict. Very fast moving. If I had to guess, and this is, I stress, purely a guess, I think he probably will do something in the coming weeks because it's perhaps unsustainable, particularly if the PM doesn't set a timetable, which he doesn't seem keen to do. But then, you know, Angela Rayner could equally do that as well.
- [09:52]
A
Yeah, and we've been hearing from Angela Rayner in a pre arranged speech. But nonetheless, she used that opportunity to address a number of the points that Starme raised in his speech this morning. She, over the weekend issued quite a punchy statement where she said she felt that the pace of change was not fast enough. She was clear about this message of giving a last chance warning to Starmer. And she also said it was a mistake to prevent Andy Burnham from standing as an MP in Gordon and Denton. Where does she sit in all of this? I mean, she's still embroiled in her own tax affairs, which put limitations on her ability to put herself into the ring at the moment. But she seemed to be perhaps leaning towards Burnham in all of this.
- [10:36]
B
It's interesting because Angela Raynham might decide that she suddenly needs to go for it. You know, she's being talked up quite a lot as potentially a second fiddle in another leadership bid, whether it's Andy Burnham or Ed Miliband. But I get the sense that one thing she doesn't really like is being talked up as the supporting cast for a man's bid. So you never know.
- [10:55]
A
Well, it sounds like, Peter, that Keir Starmer lives on another day. But it's going to be a tumultuous few weeks and months, maybe a day.
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B
Who knows?
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Exactly. But we no doubt speak soon. Thank you.
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B
Thank you.
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That's it for today. My huge thanks to Peter Walker, the Guardian senior political correspondent. You can keep up with his reporting and rolling coverage of this story over@the guardian.com and do listen to today's episode of our sister podcast, Politics Weekly, which will have more analysis on a dramatic day from Pippa Carrera and Kieran Stacey. Before we go, I just wanted to tell you about a new video podcast that our New York office is launching. It's called Stateside with Kai and Carter, and it's hosted by our colleagues, Kai Wright and Carter Sherman. Each week they're going to be making sense of some of the biggest stories happening right now. The show will feature conversations with some of the smartest thinkers and reporters, not just from the Guardian, but across the world. It's launching on the 13th of May, with episodes every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. You can find it in full video on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to this episode of the latest Today in Focus. We'll be back in your feeds as usual tomorrow morning. The latest will be back tomorrow night. This episode was presented by Meet Lucy Hoff. It was produced by Sam Gruwet. The senior producer was Bryony Moore. The lead producer was Zoe Hitch. This is the Guardian.