The Jesse Jackson I knew

Summary

Podcast Summary
Today in Focus: The Jesse Jackson I Knew
The Guardian | Released March 6, 2026
Host: Annie Kelly
Guests: Hugh Muir (Executive Editor for Opinion, The Guardian), Del Marie Cobb (1988 campaign press secretary), Gerry Austin (1988 campaign manager)

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Overview: Celebrating the Life and Legacy of Jesse Jackson

This episode of Today in Focus reflects on the life, impact, and complex legacy of Reverend Jesse Jackson, who died at age 84. Through interviews with those who knew him, on-the-ground campaign experiences, and firsthand recollections, the Guardian examines how Jackson became a civil rights trailblazer, political leader, and cultural figure who irrevocably shaped American politics.

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1. Jesse Jackson: The Man and His Presence

(00:54–02:23)

• Contributors recall Jackson’s physical presence, charisma, and tireless energy.
• Gerald Austin shares: "He was this 6 foot 3, 225 pound guy who basically commanded an audience." (01:47)
• Del Marie Cobb remembers: "He just appeared larger than life in terms of presence." (01:53)
• Jackson’s unique ability to make each person feel important:
  • Hugh Muir: "He had this laser focus on whoever it was that he was talking to...he always made you feel as if what you were saying was really important." (02:14)

Notable Moment:

• Jackson’s “call and response” technique from the pulpit and campaign rallies:
  • Jesse Jackson: "Brothers and sisters, what time is it?" (02:40)
  • Hugh Muir: "...it was almost a complete mastery of his situation. And of course the audience loved that." (02:43)

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2. Early Life and the Seeds of Activism

(04:04–06:23)

• Jackson’s childhood in poverty, complicated family history, and experiences with racism in segregated South Carolina.
• Jesse Jackson details family trauma: "My great grandfather was the sheriff...who raped my great grandmother...I was born to a teenage mother who was born to a teenage mother." (04:17)
• His first act of protest: a teenage library sit-in that led to arrest.
  • Jesse Jackson: "In July 17, 1960, I went to jail in Greenville, South Carolina, trying to use a library." (05:40)
• Emerges as a natural, early organizer—first as part of the “Greenville Eight.”

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3. The King Years and Fusion of Preaching with Protest

(06:38–10:18)

• Involvement in civil rights deepened during the Selma-to-Montgomery march beside Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
• King quickly recognized his skills and brought him into the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, forging Jackson’s style of merging faith and activism.
• Jesse Jackson: “I believe we will go from slave ship to championship...to the White House. I believe we will rise all the way to the top.” (09:29)
• The trauma and controversy surrounding King’s assassination and Jackson’s proximity to him.
  • Accounts differ on Jackson’s closeness to King in his final moments and his rapid return to activism post-assassination, sparking both admiration and tension within the movement.

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4. PUSH, “I Am Somebody,” and Intersectional Advocacy

(13:10–15:45)

• Post-King, Jackson founded PUSH (People United to Save Humanity), becoming a prominent advocate not only for black Americans but for all oppressed groups.
• Developed the “I am somebody” mantra, emphasizing dignity and belonging for women, LGBTQ people, and the marginalized—unprecedented for a black church leader at the time.
• Famous moments:
  • Jesse Jackson (on Sesame Street): Leads a diverse group of children in reciting “I am somebody.” (15:21)
  • Hugh Muir: Highlights Jackson’s ability to connect even with children of all races, “...it was very moving.” (15:03)

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5. International Diplomacy and Unofficial Statesmanship

(15:45–17:13)

• In the 1980s-90s, Jackson became renowned for negotiating the release of American hostages abroad (Syria, Cuba, Iraq, Yugoslavia) through direct, informal diplomacy—sometimes without US government approval.
• Hugh Muir: “He got huge profile...But he couldn't have done that had he sat inside the establishment...knowledgeable of it but not part of it...” (16:31)

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6. Presidential Runs: Breaking Barriers in 1984 and 1988

(17:13–27:06)

The 1984 Run

(17:24–18:46)

• Jackson’s first presidential bid broke racial taboos, shifting perceptions of Black political power.
• Faced backlash for pro-Palestinian stances, yet opened the door for future candidates.
• Notable quote:
  • Jesse Jackson: “America's not like a blanket, one piece of unbroken cloth...America's more like a quilt. Many patches, many pieces, many colors...all woven and held together by a common thread.” (18:08)

1988: A Real Contender

(18:46–27:06)

• With a professional campaign team (Gerald Austin, Del Marie Cobb), Jackson became a serious candidate.
• Austin recalls: “No other candidates went to an Indian reservation or...a coal mining area...What he brought to those people was recognition they existed...” (21:17)
• Grassroots fundraising: Passing the bucket at churches; communities, regardless of means, felt ownership of the campaign.
  • Del Marie Cobb: “...he would pass out the Kentucky Fried Chicken buckets to raise money...On Sundays and other days, we had churches...the buckets...kept the campaign going.” (25:00)
• Jackson’s self-penned speeches, incorporating spontaneous suggestions even mid-speech.

Iconic Speech

• Jesse Jackson (Democratic National Convention, 1988): “We must never surrender. America will get better and better. Keep hope alive...I love you very much.” (27:20)

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7. Paving the Way for Obama and Enduring Political Influence

(29:25–34:54)

• Jackson’s campaigns changed Democratic Party rules from “winner-take-all” to proportionality, which directly enabled Barack Obama’s 2008 primary success.
  • Del Marie Cobb: “...one of the rules he got changed...the nominee gets a proportion of the vote...that change...is what allowed Barack Obama to become president 20 years later.” (29:36)
• The symbolic image of Jackson weeping at Obama’s inauguration.
  • Hugh Muir: “...those two runs made it look as if...it was possible for a black man to get to the White House...” (31:49)
• Complex relationship with Obama—at times critical, at others joyful, viewing Obama as running “the last lap of a 60 year race.” (32:42)

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8. Lasting Legacy

(33:21–34:54)

• Jackson is remembered for his psychological impact: empowering the marginalized to believe in their own worth and potential.
• Hugh Muir: “...the idea of 'I am somebody'...To have someone say, well yeah, you really do. And so, you claim it and you seize it. That was really important.” (33:29)
• Jesse Jackson (Closing): “But I am somebody. I am black, beautiful, proud. I must be respected. I must be protected. I am somebody.” (34:22)

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Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He had this laser focus on whoever it was that he was talking to.” – Hugh Muir (02:14)
• "We will go from slave ship to championship...to the White House. I believe we will rise all the way to the top." – Jesse Jackson (09:29)
• “I am somebody. I may be poor, but I am somebody.” – Jesse Jackson (15:21, Sesame Street)
• “America's...more like a quilt. Many patches, many pieces, many colors...” – Jesse Jackson (18:08)
• “Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive on tomorrow night and beyond.” – Jesse Jackson (27:20)
• “That change...is what allowed Barack Obama to become the president 20 years later in 2008.” – Del Marie Cobb (29:36)
• “He just made people feel differently...that was really important.” – Hugh Muir (33:29)

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Timestamps for Key Segments:

• Jesse Jackson’s Early Life & Sit-in: 04:04–06:23
• Marching with MLK & Religious-Political Fusion: 06:38–10:18
• Controversy after King’s Death: 10:18–13:10
• PUSH, 'I am Somebody', and Inclusion: 13:10–15:45
• International Hostage Negotiations: 15:45–17:13
• Presidential Runs (‘84, ‘88) & Strategy: 17:13–27:06
• Legacy, Obama, & Psychological Impact: 29:25–34:54

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Summary:
This episode thoughtfully explores Jesse Jackson’s journey from the segregated South to the heart of American politics, tracing his gifts as an orator and organizer, his pivotal roles in civil rights and politics, his complex personality and sometimes controversial methods, and his profound impact on American society—culminating in changes that made the Obama presidency possible. Above all, Jackson’s legacy endures in the self-belief he inspired in generations: “I am somebody.”

Transcript

[Annie Kelly]

This is the Guardian. Today. Remembering Jesse Jackson.

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[Jesse Jackson]

We come before thee just now with heaviness of heart broken spirit wounded by the passing of our beloved brother, the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

[Annie Kelly]

All this week, the life of the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who has died at the age of 84, has been celebrated and commemorated. He was many different things. Civil rights leader and put a voter

[Jesse Jackson]

registration card in that other hand, symbolizing power and responsibility.

[Annie Kelly]

Hostage negotiator.

[Jesse Jackson]

Whenever hostages are released, it's always an expression of some hope.

[Annie Kelly]

Presidential candidates.

[Jesse Jackson]

My decision to seek the nomination of the Democratic Party for the presidency of the United States of America.

[Annie Kelly]

But there are things that everyone who met him remembers.

[Gerald Austin]

He was this 6 foot 3, 225 pound guy who basically commanded an audience.

[Del Marie Cobb]

I just remember him appearing larger than life in terms of presence.

[Hugh Muir]

Big in frame and he was big in stature.

[Gerald Austin]

He was tireless. We put him to bed at 1:30 in the morning and he got up at 6:30.

[Del Marie Cobb]

If you happened to be on the other side of the room, he was going to make his way to the other side of the room, shake your hand and introduce himself.

[Hugh Muir]

He had this laser focus on whoever it was that he was talking to and he always made you feel as if what you were saying was really important.

[Annie Kelly]

His charisma, drive and vision saw him become the first black candidate who was a serious contender for the American presidency. Paving the way for Barack Obama years later, helped in no small part by his talent of connecting with people wherever he went.

[Jesse Jackson]

Brothers and sisters, what time is it?

[Hugh Muir]

He would say something and just to make sure that the audience were completely connected to him, he would make them say it back to him. It was almost a complete mastery of his situation. And of course the audience loved that.

[Jesse Jackson]

2000 black elected and appointed officials and legislatures and government. What time is it?

[Hugh Muir]

And I think that's one of the gifts that he had and everyone of that generation there was a really important message that they were trying to impart, but also it was just fantastic theatre.

[Jesse Jackson]

Unregistered black voters. What time is it for black Democrats, Black Republicans, Black Panthers, Black Newsoms, Black Independents.

[Annie Kelly]

From the Guardian, I'm Annie Kelly. Today in focus, Jesse Jackson, the civil rights trailblazer who changed politics forever. Hugh Muir, you're the executive editor for Opinion here at the Guardian. Welcome to Jamfocus. You met Jesse Jackson on a number of occasions when he came to the uk. But first, take us back to the beginning of his life. What was his early childhood like?

[Hugh Muir]

Jesse Jackson had in some ways a kind of typical early childhood of people who've become prominent because it was, you know, it was far from affluent. He grew up in Greenville in South Carolina, and that was a fairly poor area, but he was in the poor bit of it.

[Jesse Jackson]

I too, know suffering. My great grandfather was the sheriff of Greenville county, who raped my great grandmother. And of that relationship, my grandmother who was stolen from the plantation by my grandfather. And then my father came out of that relationship. I know suffering. I was born to a teenage mother who was born to a teenage mother.

[Hugh Muir]

And he took the name Jackson from someone that his mother later had a relationship with because Jackson was not his natural father. And he was often taunted one for being black, but also for his own family situation. And I think that he obviously would have had to stand up for himself. And in some ways that sort of made him a stronger person, having to deal with that. He was always very bright, and it was his education and his love of education that actually drew him into the civil rights movement in quite a small way, quite early, because he went to his local library to get a particular book. The libraries at that point was segregated, and they didn't have that book. But the white part of the library did have that book. And so he was denied entry to the white bit of the library. And so I suppose, echoing the Jesse we would know later on in life, he organized a sit.

[Jesse Jackson]

In July 17, 1960, I went to jail in Greenville, South Carolina, trying to use a library. We marched to the library, and of course, they had a knack for shutting the lights off.

[Hugh Muir]

That meant the library was closed.

[Del Marie Cobb]

She says the protest wasn't planned, but developed naturally when a young Jesse Jackson needed to do some research for a homework assignment.

[Annie Kelly]

How old would he have been then? Kind of in his early 20s or late teens.

[Hugh Muir]

At that point, I think he would have been in his late teens. But even then, the organizer, I think he took seven people into the library.

[Jesse Jackson]

So we went back, and when we went back, they arrested us.

[Del Marie Cobb]

This picture shows the young people now called the Greenville Eight.

[Hugh Muir]

He was arrested, but he clearly learned some things about how you organize things and how you raise a voice.

[Annie Kelly]

Five years later, in 1965, Martin Luther King organized a march from Selma to Birmingham, Alabama. Around 6, 600 people took part and the young Jesse Jackson was there.

[Jesse Jackson]

So the march from Selma to Montgomery has begun. Dr. Martin Luther King here heading a possession of between 7 and 10,000 people on the first stage of their march towards Montgomery and the state capital.

[Gerald Austin]

We hope that this will be a

[Jesse Jackson]

peaceful, non violent demonstration of our determination to register and vote and to end police brutality and all of the other things that we've suffered here.

[Hugh Muir]

Martin Luther King had organized a march in protest at denial of voting rights. And so Jesse Jackson took them people down to that, caught King's eye and quickly was taken under King's wing and became a protege in the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, which was King's main vehicle for activism. And of course, what Jackson learned from that was that fusion of religion and political activism that would later become a real hallmark of what he did.

[Annie Kelly]

And that, as you said, kind of fusion of religion, oratory politics, civil rights, that came to kind of define his work. Was he always considered to be a great speaker?

[Hugh Muir]

I think yes. He did show that he'd learned at the master's knee, if you like, from Martin Luther King very early on and very quickly established himself as one of the main leaders. He was first given a local role in a thing called Operation Breadbasket.

[Jesse Jackson]

White supermarkets like this are boycotted by Operation Breadbasket if they don't stock enough black goods and hire enough black employees.

[Hugh Muir]

He became the head of the Chicago branch of that. So that started giving him a profile. And of course it would have meant that he had to make a lot of speeches.

[Jesse Jackson]

The economic power is not there on the leverage. And I think that the black community is driving for economic independence, for political independence, for military independence, for social, for religious and psychological independence, which means that we will control our community as do other ethnic groups. I think it might.

[Hugh Muir]

You have to understand that in a way, the genius of Martin Luther King later taken on by Jesse Jackson was taking the religion out of the purely theological and fusing that with politics as we know it on, on planet earth, if you like.

[Annie Kelly]

So he was the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

[Hugh Muir]

He was the Reverend Jesse Jackson. And that's really key when you look at his approach to his activism. Certainly when you listen to his speeches, that's absolutely a Pentecostal Baptist preaching fused with politics, with the politics of anti racism, of anti sexism.

[Jesse Jackson]

I believe that we will go from guttermost to uttermost. I believe that we will go from slave ship to championship. I believe that we will go from outhouse, the State House, the courthouse, the White House. I believe we will rise all the way to the top. I believe that my mind is a. Martin Luther King Jr. Was killed tonight in Memphis, Tennessee. Shot in the face as he stood alone on the balcony of his hotel room.

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He died in a hospital an hour later.

[Annie Kelly]

In 1968, Martin Luther King was assassinated. It was a defining moment for Jesse Jackson.

[Jesse Jackson]

When you saw your friend and mentor

[Hugh Muir]

in that condition, what was going through your head?

[Jesse Jackson]

I was traumatized.

[Hugh Muir]

It was full of pain and anger

[Jesse Jackson]

and sorrow and desperation and many emotions

[Hugh Muir]

at the same time.

[Annie Kelly]

But it also brought to the surface underlying tensions around his relationship to King.

[Hugh Muir]

Jesse Jackson was never everyone's favorite person, not least because there were people there who thought that he was probably too close to Martin Luther King and that maybe he had a patronage that they would have liked to have. And so he always faced criticism and questioning of things that he had said, even about, you know, what he did and where he was on the night that Martin Luther King was shot. Well, he was there. He was at the Lorraine Motel. But there were always arguments and debates about his actual proximity to it. He also said that immediately after King had been shot that he cradled him in his arms. And there were others who dispute that and basically accused him of trying to aggrandize himself while making himself seem much closer to those events than he actually was.

[Jesse Jackson]

And then I heard Jesse Jackson say. He told me, jesse, take our people onto the mountain.

[Annie Kelly]

Her.

[Jesse Jackson]

And that didn't bother me, even though I know Jesse got nowhere near him. And then Jesse said, I held his head in my hand while he died, and that didn't get to me. And then Jesse said, look at my shirt. And I looked around, showed up, and Jesse Jackson's shirt was drenched in blood. And I realized the only way Jesse could have gotten that blood or stooped out on that floor with an array motel and raked that blood off that floor and put that blood on him. And I went crazy. I really tried to kill Jesse.

[Hugh Muir]

The other thing that became controversial was that whilst many of the lieutenants of Martin Luther King stayed around Memphis almost in a kind of period of mourning, Jackson didn't. He went back to Chicago. I think it was. He began doing a series of national interviews. And I think he almost saw it as, you know, we have to seize the narrative and we have to get on the front foot about what we do next. Others just saw it as well. Basically, you think there's a vacancy and you're trying to fill it. But of course, that didn't make him very popular with a lot of people outside the movement, because, as I say, some people saw him as being almost too effective and quite dangerous, but also inside the movement as well, because there would be some. Some level of competitive rivalry.

[Annie Kelly]

After Martin Luther King's death in 1971, Jesse Jackson founded PUSH, a campaign group that would allow him to grow his reputation as a civil rights leader. And he continued to be an unstoppable force, inspirational to some, but considered dangerous by others.

[Hugh Muir]

I think at the time, it's quite easy if you're a formidable, very high profile public figure to be put in a particular box. And so when you're a religious leader, okay, that's fine. And when you're a religious leader who, who gets involved in activism, well, okay, that's fine as well. But if you're a religious leader who then goes beyond that and you're appealing not just to church people, not just to black people, but to people of a certain class if you're able to emphasize the intersectionality in what you're doing, which is what he did. He basically said, you know, I think that you matter too. He had his, you know, his great catchphrase, I am somebody. And he tried to relate it to everyone. He said that, you know, if you're a woman, you're somebody. If you're gay, you're somebody. And that sounds kind of routine now, but at the time it wasn't. And it particularly wasn't for a black church leader to say that.

[Annie Kelly]

There's that really famous clip of him on Sesame street, isn't there?

[Hugh Muir]

Yeah, he did. He did two things he did in the same year, I think it was 1972, he did wattstacks, the music festival

[Jesse Jackson]

to celebrate our homecoming and our own sense of somebodyness, where there was a

[Hugh Muir]

huge rendition of the I am somebody poem and of call and response.

[Jesse Jackson]

I am, I am somebody. I am somebody. I may be poor but I am somebody I may build welfare.

[Hugh Muir]

And he also then did a, a poignant version of it on Sesame street where he sat there with his big afro and it's very moving. The camera panned across and you saw a group of children who were of different ages and races. And he got them all saying, I am somebody as well.

[Jesse Jackson]

Ready on the stop. Okay, here we go. I am, I am somebody, Somebody I am, I am somebody. I may be poor, I may be poor But I am somebody, Somebody I may be young but I am but I am somebody, Somebody but his work

[Annie Kelly]

wasn't limited to politics and preaching. In the 80s and 90s, he helped release dozens of American hostages and prisoners abroad through his own brand of unofficial diplomacy.

[Stamps.com Advertiser]

Lieutenant Robert Goodman, freed only yesterday after

[Del Marie Cobb]

one month in Syrian captivity, looked healthy and happy as his entire family looked on. Goodman expressed thanks to both Jackson and

[Annie Kelly]

the administration he negotiated with Syria in 1983, Cuba in 1984, Iraq in 1990 and Yugoslavia in 1999. He often operated without US government approval and used personal and direct dialogue with world leaders such as Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein. But he was also criticised for it.

[Hugh Muir]

Well, he could do that, and it was win, win, because he got huge profile when he went on those rescue missions. He was all over the news as almost being the only person who could do this. And so it was win, win for him. And sometimes it was successful as well. But he couldn't have done that had he sat inside the establishment. It was just the fact that he was knowledgeable of it but not part of it that allowed him to be able to do that.

[Jesse Jackson]

It was especially meaningful to us that once we got our telegram back from President Assad, we then called Senator Charles Percy, Chairman of our Foreign Relations Committee, which we thought was the appropriate thing to do. He then got us in contact with the State Department.

[Annie Kelly]

And then, of course, he had his two presidential runs, 1984 and then 88. How significant a moment was it when he announced that he was going to run for president in 1984?

[Hugh Muir]

Well, I think it was almost the culmination of the profile that he'd built, and I think people were pleased, but a bit incredulous. No black American had sought the presidency for a very long time. I think he had a passion, very formidable organizational skills, which he will have learned from his earlier life back in Chicago. And so that run actually was going quite well. It didn't succeed. Ultimately, he said some things, in particular his advocacy of a Palestinian that cost him quite a lot of votes, particularly in New York. But it was not seen as a failure. And I think it was seen as a marker, maybe for him, maybe for someone else, but I think the feeling was that a taboo had been broken.

[Jesse Jackson]

America's not like a blanket, one piece of unbroken cloth, the same color, the same texture, the same size. America's more like a quilt. Many patches, many pieces, many colors, many sizes, all woven and held together by a common thread. The white, the Hispanic, the black, the Arab, the Jew, the woman, the Native American, the small farmer, the business person, the environmentalist, the peace activist, the young the old the lesbian, the gay and the disabled make up the American quilt.

[Annie Kelly]

In 1988, Jesse Jackson ran for the Democratic presidential nomination.

[Jesse Jackson]

Once more, the President should be a leader. Jesse Jackson is a leader. He provided leadership to end the Chicago firemen strike, leadership to negotiate a settlement

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to the nurses strike in Buffalo and

[Jesse Jackson]

a teacher's strike in South Jesse Jackson also successfully negotiated the return of Lieutenant Goodman from Syria. Leadership for President Jesse Jackson.

[Annie Kelly]

He took everything he'd learned from 1984 and found a team that would help him run a more organized and focused campaign.

[Del Marie Cobb]

My name is Del Marie Cobb, and I'm a political consultant here in Chicago. And I was Jesse Jackson's national traveling press secretary in 1988 when he ran for president.

[Gerald Austin]

Jerry Austin. I'm longtime, now retired political consultant in the United States, and I was Jesse Jackson's 1988 campaign manager. Jesse Jackson ran for president in 1984, and it wasn't really a run. It was really more of a protest candidacy. So in 1988, we went to Willie Brown, who was the speaker of the House, and asked him to chair his campaign. And Willie Brown responded that he would only do that if Jesse Jackson found a real campaign manager and ran a real campaign. So Jackson said to Brown, find somebody. And one thing led to another, and I got a phone call from somebody who knew Willie Brown and knew me and asked me if I would like to be Jesse Jackson's 1988 campaign manager. So I signed on and he said, you got a plan for this campaign? I said, actually, I do. And he said, well, what is it? I said, well, the first endorsement we need is from the press corps that the press corps has to look at you as a viable candidate, which they never did in 1984. How do we do that? Number one, we need to get a plane.

[Jesse Jackson]

The challenge for Jackson was to find a way to compete in 20 states at once with no money. By March, the campaign was already hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. For a strategy, Jackson turned to his campaign manager, Gerald Austin.

[Gerald Austin]

We decided that the best way to deal with Super Tuesday is we never would have a million dollars for media. But if we were able to get a large enough plane to take the the media with us and go to four or five or sometimes even six different media markets in a day. The first time I actually went with him to an event, and it was what they call a Jefferson Humphrey dinner. And when Jesse got to speak, all of a sudden, from out of the kitchen came the cooks, came the waiters and waitresses, all the People working to hear him speak. And I thought to myself, I've never seen this before. No other candidates went to an Indian reservation or went to a poor church in Mississippi, or went to a coal mining area, or went to a rural area in Appalachia. And what he brought to those people was recognition they existed, which is important to begin with and to get them involved in that. Voting was something that they should do and they could benefit from it by electing people that they liked.

[Jesse Jackson]

I was facing foreclosure, had gotten the foreclosure notice and in the spring of 85 and got a hold of Jesse, and we got a telegram to our local banker. He offered to come sit down at a mediation table and try to work this thing out between myself and my bankers. And we wound up going through some reorganization, given some things back, but we still got every acre and we're going to farm and we're going to continue to farm.

[Gerald Austin]

We targeted congressional districts that had a large black population. And at that time, the rules were if you won that district, you got all of the delegates. So that was the initial goal. And we showed that we were winning. And that's how the press corps came to start to cover us. And from there, you know, we were, you know, considered a viable candidate.

[Jesse Jackson]

In the south, almost 20% of eligible voters are black. Jackson's strategy depended on a large black voter turnout. In March of 1988, at the United House of Prayer in Charlotte, North Carolina, we saw something we had not seen a month before in the chilly towns of Iowa. Instead of polite interest, interest in the Jackson campaign, we saw enthusiasm.

[Annie Kelly]

Unlike the other high profile Democratic candidates, the Reverend Jesse Jackson had to find alternative ways to fund his campaign.

[Gerald Austin]

Whenever he spoke, whether it was to 2,000 people in a upscale church in New York or whether it was to 200 poor people in Meridian, Mississippi, we passed the hat. And so in New York, he'd ask, who'd give me $1,000? Five people raised their hand and then he'd say, 500, 100. Well, we could raise for 2,000 people. We could raise 20 or $30,000 at that event in New York. Now you go to Meridian, Mississippi, with 200 very, very poor people. And he would ask for who would give me $1,000? And nobody raised their hand. Who would give me 500, 150? No one raised their hand. Lastly, he said, who would give me something? Everybody raised their hand and we passed a hat, mostly dollar bills, sometimes a $5 bill. And I asked him, why do you do that? He said, because the people in this church in Mississippi, by giving me a dollar, have basically bought into my campaign. And they will gladly, proudly tell their neighbors and friends that they're part of the campaign.

[Del Marie Cobb]

We were joking all the time about the fact that he would pass out the Kentucky Fried Chicken buckets to raise money. And, you know, by him being the black candidate, he had to do other ways of raising money. I mean, he wasn't able to raise money like Dukakis and George Bush. What's even more interesting if you think about who was in the race, you had Joe Biden, you had Al Gore. All of them dropped out of the race and he was still standing. They were establishment. They had establishment ways of raising money and getting to people. He had anti establishment ways of getting money and getting to people and getting his word out. And so the church was one of his ways of getting money. So on Sundays and other days on our schedule, we had churches and we went to churches and the churches were packed and he made his speeches and then he made his ask, and then they passed the Kentucky Fried Chicken buckets and then we collected them at the end. And that's what kept the campaign going.

[Jesse Jackson]

Brother Jesse, now he's running for the presidency. But don't come here trying to take this away from me, because I am the president here.

[Annie Kelly]

You must have seen a lot of iconic speeches on the campaign trail. Did you help him write any of them?

[Del Marie Cobb]

No, they were all his. But, you know, after a while, you know the speeches, and I pretty much knew them by heart after hearing them, and I knew that there were times when, based on what, the calendar or based on where we were, that there might be things he wanted to say that he didn't say. And this was the other thing I found absolutely amazing is that I could sneak a note to him and he would look at the note and incorporate what it was I was telling him and never miss a beat.

[Annie Kelly]

In the end, Jesse Jackson's 1988 campaign finished when he lost out on the Democratic nomination to Michael Duchar. But he still managed to make one of his most iconic speeches at the Democratic National Convention that July.

[Jesse Jackson]

We must never surrender. America will get better and better. Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive on tomorrow night and beyond. Keep hope alive. I love you very much.

[Annie Kelly]

Coming up, how Jesse Jackson opened the door to the Obama presidency.

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[Annie Kelly]

Do you think that he ever believed that he could become president? Or do you think that that campaign that you worked on with him, that wasn't really the point, it was about something else.

[Del Marie Cobb]

I believe he believed he could become president. Maybe in 1984 he didn't believe it, but in 1988 I think he did believe it. And coming in second was significant. And so what he did was even if he couldn't become president, he understood what power that gave him. And so that's what I talk about is being in the room with his delegates in Atlanta because they wanted him to take the fight to the floor to become vice president. And he said, no, we're not going to do that. What we're going to do is we're going to ask for rules to be changed, we're going to ask for the platform to be changed, and we're going to ask for the committee to be expanded to include ordinary people, not just the party elite. And so that's what he did. And one of the rules he got changed was during our campaign, it was winner take all. And he decided, you know, it shouldn't be winner take all, it should be proportionality so that the nominee gets a proportion of the vote. And so that change in 1988 is what allowed Barack Obama to become the president 20 years later in 2008.

[Jesse Jackson]

It's the answer that led those who have been told for so long by so many to be cynical and fearful and doubtful about what we can achieve. To put their hands on the arc of history and, and bend it once more toward the hope of a better day. It's been a long time coming, but tonight, because of what we did on this day, in this election, at this defining moment, change has come to America.

[Annie Kelly]

One of the most kind of arresting images of Jesse Jackson is him crying at a Barack Obama's inauguration. It's said that Obama could never have made the presidency without Jesse Jackson. Do you believe in that?

[Hugh Muir]

Oh, absolutely, because I think that you have to establish the concept first. I think that those two runs made it look as if in the modern era it was possible for a black man to get to the White House. And so in a way, when Obama came along, the idea wasn't a strange one. And of course Obama and Jesse Jackson had a kind of complicated relationship. There was an occasion in which Jesse Jackson was heard what he thought was off mic, talking about Obama and complaining that Obama too often talked down to black people.

[Jesse Jackson]

When Fox News decided to air the

[Gerald Austin]

tape, Jackson rushed to clarify his position

[Jesse Jackson]

on the likely nominee. My support for Rock and his policies are long standing.

[Hugh Muir]

I think there was probably was a class issue there as well because I think Jackson probably thought that Obama was trying too much to appeal to a certain demographic, whereas Jesse's demographic was very much a kind of grassroots demographic. But then when Obama was elected, there he was, you know, weeping like a baby and clearly elated at what had happened. I'm not sure that given their politics that he would have fully approved of everything that Obama did. But I think that, I think he said it himself that Obama ran the last lap of a 60 year race.

[Annie Kelly]

And what would you say is his political legacy? Like what is it that we can look back on in his life and take lessons from in terms of moving forward?

[Hugh Muir]

I think it's extraordinary that one man with his oratory, with his ear for a catchphrase, with his eye for an issue could lift up so many people and make so many people feel more confident in themselves and more robust about their rights. I think what was his real impact? I think it was psychological because I think that he just made people feel differently. I think that was the impact on me. As I say, I think that that, that idea of I am somebody, when you've got everyone saying that, you know, I'm not sure what you. That you are. I'm not sure that you are. That you have equality, that you deserve equality. Well, to have someone say, well yeah, you really do. And so you claim it and you seize it. That was really important.

[Jesse Jackson]

But I am somebody. I am black, beautiful, proud. I must be respected. I must be protected. I am somebody I know.

[Annie Kelly]

And that's it for today. My thanks to Hugh Muir, Del Marie Cobb and Gerry Austin. You can read our obituary to Jesse [e-mail] this episode was produced by Ivor Manley, Yassin, Al Mudden, Elna Biggs, Ruth Abrahams and Thomas Glatter and presented by me, Annie Kelly. Sound design was by Brian McNamara and the executive producer was Maz Eddihaj. We'll be back later on this afternoon with the latest. This is the Guardian.

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