The Maga divide over Iran

Summary

Podcast Summary: Today in Focus — The MAGA Divide Over Iran

Date: March 25, 2026
Host: Michael Safi (The Guardian)
Guest: Andrew Roth, Washington Correspondent, The Guardian

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the escalating U.S.-Iran conflict under President Donald Trump and its impact on the MAGA (Make America Great Again) movement, public perception, and American democracy. Michael Safi and Andrew Roth delve into the administration’s shifting strategy, domestic political fallout, evolving attitudes within the MAGA base, and the broader consequences for U.S. foreign policy, the economy, and support for Israel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Context: Parallels to Iraq, Trump’s Approach

• Comparison to the anticipated and debated run-up to the 2003 Iraq War.
• Difference: Trump’s military action in Iran occurred with minimal public debate or congressional authorization.
• Trump publicly contradicted his campaign promises by launching the operation yet claimed he would "end every single international crisis."
• [02:31] Trump announces start of major combat operations in Iran, no clear end in sight.

Quote:

“But this time, no congressional authorization. Trump didn’t ask the UN. He didn’t even really try to sell it to the public. In fact, he kind of sold them the opposite.”
— Michael Safi [02:40]

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2. Strategic Confusion and "Whiplash" in the White House

• White House strategy described as erratic and largely improvised.
• Frequent policy reversals and decisions seemingly made on impulse, often communicated via social media.
• Example: Sudden extension of Iran’s deadline to reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

Quote:

“I think that the word that comes to mind is whiplash…finding out that the direction of the conflict has shifted 180 degrees...”
— Andrew Roth [04:12]

Notable Moment:

• Trump’s direct and casual public messaging on the conflict:

  “We’re doing a five day period. We’ll see how that goes. And if it goes well, we’re going to end up with settling this. Otherwise we just keep bombing our little hearts. Yeah.”
  — Donald Trump [05:28]

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3. Military "Success" vs. Lack of Clear Political Goals

• The U.S. has inflicted heavy damage on Iranian military targets, but Iran retains significant capabilities.
• No clear articulation of end-goals or a viable exit strategy.
• The administration is now keenly searching for an "off ramp."

Quote:

“The question is, what have they really achieved?...Iran still has the Straits of Hormuz closed. Iran is still able to project some form of power and threaten the region.”
— Andrew Roth [06:23]

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4. Economic Fallout and Trump’s Message to the Markets

• Economic concerns, specifically oil price spikes and their effect on American consumers, are central to Trump’s communications strategy.
• Trump timed policy announcements to reassure markets, notably extending the Iran deadline before the trading week.

Quote:

“Americans are mainly living this war through how much money they spend at the pump…So when Donald Trump comes online just hours before the markets open and says…we’re going to have this resolved within five days…I don’t think that it’s a kind of conspiracy to say that Donald Trump is aiming this at the markets.”
— Andrew Roth [08:48]

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5. Public Response: Political Overload and Diminished Protests

• Unlike previous wars, the U.S. public is less mobilized and more disconnected; key issues remain domestic and economic rather than foreign policy.
• War does not dominate day-to-day conversation; limited protests (especially compared to Iraq).
• Overlapping political controversies and other protest movements dilute opposition.

Quote:

“People are not very plugged in to what’s going on in terms of the day to day of the conflict…The fact that the US doesn’t have boots on the ground has made it so that people can put it to the side a little bit.”
— Andrew Roth [10:09]

• Even with over half of Americans disapproving of the war (54%), there’s little large-scale action.

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6. The Israel Factor

• U.S. action in Iran is complicated by strong domestic and congressional support for Israel.
• Many are reluctant to criticize the war due to Iran’s antagonism toward Israel, suppressing protest momentum.

Quote:

“…It’s complicated, I would say, because of the Israel angle. Iran is a country in particular that divides public opinion, because even liberal opponents to Donald Trump may very strongly support Israel or not want to be seen as supporting Iran by opposing the war.”
— Andrew Roth [11:36]

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7. Potential Triggers for Increased Opposition

• Possibility of U.S. ground troops being deployed (e.g., to Iran’s Harg Island) seen as a potential catalyst for greater public backlash.
• For now, economic impacts are expected to be the most significant driver of opinion.

Quote:

“If people are paying more money, they’ll notice that and they’ll vote against you. And that is the one thing that motivates this administration.”
— Andrew Roth [14:09]

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8. Congressional Dynamics & Political Fallout

• Looming $200 billion supplemental funding request for continued military operations (“a big number”).
• Vote on further funding anticipated soon; will put many representatives on record as supporting or opposing further war spending.
• Midterm elections present a political test; Democrats may leverage the war and economy against Republicans if the conflict remains unresolved.

Quote:

“It’s very possible that they’ll get it passed with this Congress. But you are going to see Representatives having to go on record and say, you know, I’m willing to put this vast amount of money into it. It will be another step towards this hypocrisy from many people who said they didn’t want anything to do with wars in the Middle East anymore.”
— Andrew Roth [16:22]

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9. Long-Term Republican Positioning

• Potential 2028 presidential hopefuls (e.g., J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio) are acutely aware of how their war stances may affect future campaigns.
• Vance, as VP and self-styled anti-war conservative, has tried to distance himself from direct involvement.
• Rubio’s record aligns more naturally with interventionism.

Quote:

“…J.D. Vance was one of the people who was seen as most reticent and resistant to get into this war. I think he’s very worried that if we get to 2028 and he’s running for president, that this is something that’s going to be held against him.”
— Andrew Roth [20:02]

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10. The Israel Backlash Among Democrats

• The war has sharpened a divide in support for Israel, particularly among younger and left-wing Democrats.
• More Democrats see Israel’s influence and Netanyahu as increasingly problematic for U.S. interests.

Quote:

“There is a very straightforward kind of analysis of this war, which is that the US was pulled in to this conflict very clearly by Israel and by Benjamin Netanyahu…for left wing Democrats, this is just going to go further in terms of what was already the dialogue about Gaza and other conflicts…”
— Andrew Roth [22:17]

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11. American Democracy and Executive Power

• The Iran war exposes weaknesses in checks and balances: Congress appears weak, and many precedents for democratic oversight are being ignored.
• The “rule of one” now characterizes U.S. decision-making: major war, little public involvement, and minimal institutional restraint.

Quote:

“It shows you that there’s been a kind of breakdown in the checks and balances in the US in terms of when we make a decision like this, to what degree the whole country has to be on board to go into a major conflict or a war…So for now, it feels like sort of rule of one, you could put it that way.”
— Andrew Roth [24:13]

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Standout Quotes & Moments

• On White House chaos:
  “Every day waking up because the president is up very early and finding out that the direction of the conflict has shifted 180 degrees.”
  — Andrew Roth [04:12]

• On markets and war:
  “He has said as much himself that he's very much concerned and focused on the fact that there was going to be a bump in oil because of the war and that he’s trying to keep it down now…”
  — Andrew Roth [08:48]

• On political disengagement:
  “There doesn’t seem to be anything able to kind of push back against this. The Democrats can’t. So why really push back?...Just get used to what’s happening.”
  — Andrew Roth [10:09]

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:54–03:11: Trump’s war in Iran begins; historical comparisons; lack of public debate.
• 03:50–05:38: Inside the White House’s erratic war strategy; whiplash, decision-making, Trump’s direct quotes.
• 05:46–09:42: Successes vs. stalemates in Iran; markets' influence; Trump messaging for economic stability.
• 09:42–13:46: American public’s muted response; protest dynamics; Israel’s complicating factor.
• 13:46–15:07: The possibility of ground troops/expanded war as tipping point.
• 15:07–17:41: Congressional funding, midterm political stakes, potential fallout for Republicans.
• 19:39–21:50: Long-term positioning of MAGA-aligned potential successors, especially J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio.
• 21:50–23:48: Israel’s role and likely backlash among Democrats.
• 23:48–25:17: The weakening of democratic checks; “rule of one” analysis.

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Conclusion

This episode paints a picture of a White House improvising its way through a large-scale war, a public both weary and economically battered but politically disengaged, and a political system increasingly bypassed by executive fiat. The MAGA movement and potential future Republican leaders are deeply divided on war strategy, while the relationship with Israel faces new scrutiny, especially among younger and progressive voters. The episode’s central theme is the troubling disconnect between public sentiment and government action—a symptom and symbol of America’s current democratic malaise.

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Transcript

[Andrew Roth]

This is the Guardian.

[Michael Safi]

Today will Trump's war in Iran break maga?

[Andrew Roth]

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[Donald Trump]

American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people, and to defend the world from grave danger.

[Michael Safi]

I was pretty young in 2003, but I do remember the build up to the war in Iraq.

[Donald Trump]

The danger posed by Saddam Hussein and his weapons cannot be ignored or wished away.

[Michael Safi]

It was everywhere, every even in Australia. We debated it in classes at school and George W. Bush spent months making his case to Americans.

[Donald Trump]

America faces an enemy, has no regard for conventions of war or rules of morality.

[Michael Safi]

He sent his top diplomat, Colin Powell, to the United nations, where Powell tried and failed to win the world's support.

[Andrew Roth]

The facts in Iraq's behavior demonstrate that Saddam Hussein and his regime have made

[Donald Trump]

no effort, no effort to disarm as

[Andrew Roth]

required by the international community.

[Michael Safi]

Even this guy was involved.

[Andrew Roth]

There is no question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking and is working and is advancing towards the development of nuclear weapons. No question whatsoever.

[Michael Safi]

Back then, most Americans were for the war in Iraq, but many, many were not. And they made it known, tried to stop it on the streets. Today, the US Is back at war in the Gulf, its biggest military operation there since Iraq nearly 25 years ago.

[Donald Trump]

A short time ago, the United States military began major combat operations in Iran,

[Michael Safi]

but this time, no congressional authorization. Trump didn't ask the UN he didn't even really try to sell it to the public. In fact, he kind of sold them the opposite.

[Donald Trump]

I will end every single international crisis, including the horrible war with Russia and Ukraine, which would have never happened if I was president, and the war caused by the attack on Israel, which would have never happened.

[Michael Safi]

And now, as the war stretches into its fourth week with no clear end in sight, markets see soaring global oil supplies and everything that depends on them in peril. Will the man with almost messianic appeal among his supporters be able to convince them, convince the public, all of this is worth it? From the Guardian, I'm Michael Safi. Today in focus, what does the war in Iran mean for maga. Andrew Roth, welcome back to TODAY in Focus.

[Andrew Roth]

Thanks for having me, Mike.

[Michael Safi]

Andrew, I've missed talking to you and asking you a variation of basically this question. From the outside, it looks like the White House's strategy in this case in the war in Iran is very confusing, is very confused. How is it for you? What's it like trying to figure out what on earth Donald Trump is thinking?

[Andrew Roth]

Yeah, I think that the word that comes to mind is whiplash. You know, every day waking up because the president is up very early and finding out that the direction of the conflict has shifted 180 degrees. Let's turn now to the Middle East. This morning the president extended his deadline for Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. In a truth social post, the president said after quote, very good and productive conversations with Iran, the US Would hold off on striking Iranian power plants for five days. We're so used to going into these kinds of wars and conflicts where there's a massive plan for what's going to happen six weeks from now, six months from now transitions. And I think that the Iran war is unique, I think in American history almost for the fact that so little planning, it seems, was put into specifically the political changes, you know, what the goals are politically for the country. And so what we found is that as the rubber has started to hit the road and things have gotten difficult that all of a sudden the White House is kind of freelancing. And you'll wake up in the morning and you'll find like earlier this week that Donald Trump had suddenly decided that the US Was going to cancel an ultimatum to blow up Iranian power plants because all of a sudden secret talks are taking place. So it's very difficult and it moves very quickly.

[Donald Trump]

We're doing a five day period. We'll see how that goes. And if it goes well, we're going to end up with settling this. Otherwise we just keep bombing our little hearts. Yeah.

[Michael Safi]

If you were to give your, your best guess as to what the White House's strategy is in, in this moment, what would it be?

[Andrew Roth]

I think that the White House's strategy in this moment is to find an off ramp and a way out of this conflict. They have from the beginning been talking about how successful the strikes have been.

[Donald Trump]

Last night we sunk their prize ship, the Soleimani. Looks like POTUS got him twice. Their navy, not a factor. Pick your adjective. It is no more.

[Andrew Roth]

In fact, yesterday, by all means, you know, the military side of it has been very successful. They've killed so many leaders of the Islamic Republic. They've hit so many military installations, they're taking a pounding.

[Donald Trump]

All of their leaders are dead, as far as we know.

[Andrew Roth]

But the question is, what have they really achieved? And they know that they're getting to the point in this conflict where the longer this gets drawn out, the clearer the gap is going to be between what they say that they wanted to do in Iran and what they actually have achieved. And the fact is, Iran still has the Straits of Hormuz closed. Iran is still able to project some form of power and threaten the region. And Iran is still able to sort of play havoc with the global economy. So unless that changes, they need to find a way out of the conflict very quickly. And I think that's what the White House's goal is right now.

[Michael Safi]

Yeah, they need an exit strategy, which, you know, I've been thinking about the war in Iraq. That was something that came up then. How does the US get out of Iraq? In that case, though, it was years into the conflict rather than weeks in this case.

[Andrew Roth]

Yeah, I mean, this was a much quicker kind of ability for the US to go in and project power. But this was done entirely without boots on the ground, without troops who were there. So on spec, this was a much more limited engagement. The US Was just providing a kind of overpowering, overwhelming show of force. But the effect has been the same that the US has now found itself being pulled into this conflict that it can't really get out of. Iran sort of decides when this ends because Iran is able to close the Straits of Hormuz. So that's what's called escalation, dominance. And unless the US can somehow retake control of that, the US Is trapped a little bit in this conflict.

[Michael Safi]

Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's astonishing, except this is exactly what many analysts predicted would happen if the US Attacked Iran. And it's kind of following exactly that playbook. One of the interesting things here, Andrew, is that Trump waited to extend his 48 hour deadline for the Iranians to five days until Monday morning, shortly before the markets opened. And his post helped to spark a financial recovery. To what extent do you think the way Trump is talking to the public about this war, the things he's saying are actually with the markets in mind?

[Andrew Roth]

I think the markets play a huge role for Donald Trump in terms of how he messages with the public. You know, there are two fronts to this war. The first one is really about the war front, about, you know, fighting in Iran. The second one is about how long the US and US consumers can withstand the kind of punishment from US markets, world markets in terms of oil, etc.

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[Andrew Roth]

Americans are mainly living this war through how much money they spend at the pump, you know, on petrol or on oil, how much goods are going to cost because of shipping costs, how much this is going to affect the US Markets as well because of all the effects on companies, all of the effects on the worldwide economy. So when Donald Trump comes online just hours before the markets open on a Monday and says that we're going to have this resolved within five days, which is the length of the trading week, by the way, I don't think that it's a kind of conspiracy to say that Donald Trump is aiming this at the markets. He has said as much himself that he's very much concerned and focused on the fact that there was going to be a bump in oil because of the war and that he's trying to keep it down now because he knows that's the main thing the, that could force him to end this war early.

[Michael Safi]

It's interesting what you say that for most Americans, they're living this through the cost of groceries, through the cost of things like petrol. I was actually in the US for the first 10 days of the war and one thing that struck me was you basically didn't see it anywhere. Nobody was really talking about it other than on tv. It wasn't, wasn't a topic of conversation with people I was meeting. It was happening just, just so far away. And I'm wonder, what do you know about how Americans are actually perceiving this war?

[Andrew Roth]

Yeah, I mean, based in Washington D.C. you know, you can see around you that this is one of the cities where people are the most plugged in in the country in terms of international politics. The buildup was nothing like another event in my life, which was the Iraq war, where we saw months and months of buildup protests, you know, a really strong and a really angry kind of political discourse about what was happening. And by contrast, I mean, the Iran war feels almost overshadowed at certain moments by so many of the things that are happening in, in U. S. Domestic politics. I think that people have just gotten so much, I would say, politics in the last couple of years that they're overloaded. People are not very plugged in to what's going on in terms of the day to day of the conflict. The fact that the US doesn't have boots on the Ground has made it so that people can put it to the side a little bit. They know what Donald Trump stands for. They know that they have their opinion on him. This is not going to change it in one way or the other for a lot of people. And it feels almost like a foregone conclusion that there doesn't seem to be anything able to kind of push back against this. The Democrats can't. So why really push back? You know, just get used to what's happening.

[Michael Safi]

That's incredible. I mean, the polls tell US that some 54% of voters disapprove of Trump's handling of Iran. 52% say the US should not have taken military action. How much of that disapproval is translating into protests, calls to Congress people, actual politics?

[Andrew Roth]

Yeah, we see protests, you know, that are on a smaller scale around the country, but to be honest, nothing like the hundred thousand strong that we saw, you know, in the run up to the Iraq war or in other cases. There are a bunch of reasons for that. I mean, one, first of all, is that so much of the protest space is taken up by other protests to Donald Trump that, you know, Iran is just one of many grievances against Donald Trump. Two is that it's complicated, I would say, because of the Israel angle. Iran is a country in particular that divides public opinion, because even liberal opponents to Donald Trump may very strongly support Israel or not want to be seen as supporting Iran by opposing the war. So I think that that saps some kind of opposition, too. The third one is you see that a lot in Congress is that Democrats don't seem to be able to put together a united front to push back against this. You know, the strongest opportunities and the strongest pushes to stop this from happening, like the War Powers act, still weren't able to pass the Senate in part because Israel is such a hot button topic, because many people don't want to be seen as coming out against taking action against Iran because of its history of opposition to Israel. So because of that, this war seems to hit, I would say, a sweet spot where it does seem to SAP a lot of the. What could be public opposition to it. And we don't have a kind of critical mass of opposition yet.

[Michael Safi]

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it's unpopular with the public, but among congresspeople, those who, you know, at least in theory, help to make decisions, it's a much more mixed bag.

[Andrew Roth]

Yeah. And I would say it's broadly unpopular, but the question is, who's gonna vote on that specifically? And so the opposition, I would say is broad. But there are other topics that hit closer to home for a lot of Americans at the moment. Once again, the economy, entitlements, various other questions about immigration. You know, what this administration is doing in so many different areas of American life, that this is just something that's been thrown on top for a lot of people. And it feels like, you know, the protest kind of sentiment in the states is not at the place where you're going to see big protests right now. And I, I find that to be the same in Congress as well.

[Michael Safi]

Yeah, that's interesting. I, I wonder if anything would change that. And I, I feel like the biggest thing that would is an expansion of the war. There's been some talk of, of U.S. troops being landed on this, this Hag island where a lot of Iran's oil infrastructure. Do you think a ground invasion would be, and do you think that might galvanize public opposition?

[Andrew Roth]

I think that's the next big question is going to be about whether or not those Marines that are being sent to the region and the airborne as well are going to be actually deployed onto Harg island or anywhere else onto mainland Iran. That would be the next big step and it would be a major step back from the Trump administration in terms of their promises not to get into, first of all foreign wars in the Middle east and now to actually put boots on the ground in Iran in a Middle Eastern country. So it does feel like so much of this is dependent on people actually looking at a situation and saying, oh, this is really bad. The administration has gone back on its word and that's making us angry enough to vote differently. I still think that probably the economy is going to be the thing that affects this administration and its decisions the most, because you can't fake it. It can't be kind of rationalized away. If people are paying more money, they'll notice that and they'll vote against you. And that is the one thing that motivates this administration.

[Michael Safi]

Speaking of money, here's an eye popping stat. The first week of the war, the US government spent $11 billion. That's a vast sum of money. Does that cut through at all with the public or does it all just dissolve into big numbers once again?

[Andrew Roth]

Yeah, it's big numbers. It's kind of hypothetical money. There will be that big question of the $200 billion supplemental. So the Pentagon is going to need to ask for more money in order to continue this conflict. 200 billion is the number that has been reported. That is a big number. It's A lot of money. And it indicates that the Pentagon wants to continue this fight for a considerable amount of time.

[Michael Safi]

And so that's the White House having to go to Congress and saying, can we have $200 billion to continue the war? When do we think that vote will come up?

[Andrew Roth]

I think that we'll see that in the coming month. I mean, it's going to have to come up quite soon because they're going to have to move into Congress and continue to be able to finance all of the activities that are taking place with this vast armada of U.S. troops in the region.

[Donald Trump]

As far as $200 billion, I think that number could move. Obviously, it takes money to kill bad guys. So we're going back to Congress and folks there to ensure that we're properly funded for what's been done, for what we may have to do in the future.

[Andrew Roth]

It's very possible that they'll get it passed with this Congress. But you are going to see Representatives having to go on record and say, you know, I'm willing to put this vast amount of money into it. It will be another step towards this hypocrisy from many people who said they didn't want anything to do with wars in the Middle east anymore.

[Michael Safi]

Okay, so that'll be one Democratic test of opinion of this war. Another one is coming in November, the midterm elections. Do you think that at some point Republicans will start to feel pressure because of the war, pressure because of rising costs, and try to push Trump to wrap this up as soon as possible?

[Andrew Roth]

I think that the White House absolutely hopes that they have this wrapped up by the midterms. If they don't, then they have a real problem on their hands. Because if the midterms took place right now, the Democrats could absolutely hammer Republicans in terms of not just the economy but also the war itself. What the results have been. And I think a lot of Republicans would rightly be apoplectic as well about what's happening. I mean, they have backed the Trump administration in so many kind of unpopular pushes and they've put themselves in this war that, as you said, a majority of Americans don't really support. They're going to say that they were kind of put and left out to dry by the White House.

[Michael Safi]

Coming up, this war may change the way some Americans see Donald Trump. Will it change the way they see Israel? Foreign.

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[Michael Safi]

You know, people around Trump, in the court of Trump will be thinking he's got a bit over three years left, but then at some point, unless he finds a way to run for president again, somebody is going to try to succeed him. People like Marco Rubio, J.D. vance, how much do you see them positioning around this war, looking forward and trying to understand how it might play in 2028?

[Andrew Roth]

Yeah, it's quite big for them. I mean, based on my own reporting, I know that this is something that they've been thinking about and that, I mean this is a concern, I think in particular for J.D. vance going forward. And that's one of the reasons why we haven't seen J.D. vance at the forefront of discussions of the war. Those pictures from the first day of the war when the US Began bombing Iran alongside Israel, we saw at the White House Situation Room in Mar? A Lago, right, which was called War a Lago that night we saw Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, CIA Director Jim Radcliffe, you know, Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense was there as well. All by himself at the actual White House was J.D. vance alongside Tulsi Gabbard, you know, who is another kind of anti war figure in the administration. So J.D. vance was one of the people who was seen as most reticent and resistant to get into this war. I think he's very worried that if we get to 2028 and he's running for president, that this is something that's going to be held against him. He's supposed to be an anti war figure. He fought in Iraq. He came out and said, we need to stop getting into these forever wars. Why did he not push back harder as vice president? So he's been kind of held back and I think pushed out of the limelight here. That might change going forward, especially as we now have discussions about a ceasefire. But it's a big concern for him. Yeah, for Marco Rubio, I think slightly less, because his, his brand is more online with the kind of neocon, more aggressive internationally point of view. So, I mean, this fits in with his positioning on Venezuela, his positioning on Cuba. I think this is something that he's kind of willing to eat and take in as, you know, if he's running for president in 2028. But for J.D. vance, this definitely is a little bit of liability.

[Michael Safi]

You talked about the role of Israel and I'm curious. One thing we've seen over the past 10 years is a collapse in support for Israel among Democrats, among independents, less so among Republicans. How much do you think this war, where Benjamin Netanyahu, where Israel are so clearly implicated, where they clearly played some role in encouraging Trump to get involved in the first place, and how much do you think Israel will feel the backlash among American voters?

[Andrew Roth]

I think amongst especially certain elements of the Democratic Party, maybe amongst more right wing elements, the conservative Republican Party, they'll feel it. I do feel like Israel is still very well represented in terms of, like, US mainstream politics. We see major Israeli lobbyists and lobbying groups supporting both sides in major palace and major Senate races. And obviously with this administration, Benjamin Netanyahu has a direct line into the White House and he's one of the major advisors to Donald Trump on this war. I don't think we can put it any other way in terms of U.S. politics. I think that especially amongst left wing Democrats, I mean, this is going to be the latest sign of how poisonous this kind of relationship with Israel has become. Because there is a very straightforward kind of analysis of this war, which is that the US Was pulled in to this conflict very clearly by Israel and by Benjamin Netanyahu. You know, there have been plans to invade Iran for multiple presidencies. And every time the war gaming has gone through. Past presidents have said, we're not going to get involved in this because of everything that's happening right now, all of these very foreseeable conclusions and consequences. And this time around, we're seeing that a presidency that is willing to go along with it can get the US Into a world of hurt in the Middle East. So I think that particularly for left wing Democrats, this is just going to go further in terms of what was already the dialogue about Gaza and about other conflicts around the world, that Israel is a real danger to the United States.

[Michael Safi]

It feels to me, Andrew, like the theme of this chat today is that there is this gap between what the US Public actually thinks and how empowered they feel to shape the decisions made by their federal government. And I want to ask you, finally, what do you think it says about the state of American democracy that we're now four weeks into a war that the public wasn't sold on, the public doesn't support, but also that they don't seem particularly engaged with either?

[Andrew Roth]

Yeah, I think that it shows you that there's been a kind of breakdown in the checks and balances in the US in terms of when we make a decision like this, to what degree the whole country has to be on board to go into a major conflict or a war. You know, so much of the system depends on understandings and on the ways that things worked before, on precedent and understanding that, you know, this is your lane, this is the White House's lane. Congress is supposed to do this. And what the administration has done very well is to say, actually there's nothing that, that says that and we can kind of do whatever we want. So one, one thing that we've noticed throughout this war is that Congress has seemed very weak. It can't really impose any kind of limits in terms of what the Trump White House can do. And it feels very much like the country is holding its breath until we get to the midterms when it feels like there might be some kind of realignment of power in the US but right now it feels like there's no power that's willing to stand up and really push back against the Trump administration. So for now, it feels like sort of rule of one, you could put it that way.

[Michael Safi]

Yeah. Rule of one. Of one man hooked up to a truth social account that we're all watching really closely. Andrew, thank you so much.

[Andrew Roth]

Thank you.

[Michael Safi]

And that was Andrew Roth, the Guardian's global affairs correspondent, based in Washington, D.C. one of a large hard working team trying to make sense of this moment. His work [e-mail] and that's it for today. This episode was produced by eli Block, George McDonough and Sundus Abdiel. Sound design was by Brian McNamara. The executive producer was Elizabeth Kasson. We'll be back with the latest this afternoon and again as usual tomorrow morning with Nasheen, Helen and Annie. This is the Guardian.

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