The women who took their own lives after domestic abuse

Summary

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Today in Focus – "The women who took their own lives after domestic abuse"

Published: May 4, 2026
Host: Nosheen Iqbal
Guests: Hannah Lothman (North of England correspondent, The Guardian) and Geraldine McKelvey (Senior reporter, The Guardian)

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Episode Overview

This harrowing episode of Today in Focus confronts the growing recognition that many suicides among women are the tragic culmination of years of domestic abuse. The episode centers on the lives—and deaths—of Georgia Barter and Kimberley Milne, exploring landmark rulings, investigative failures, and shifting legal and societal responses to domestic abuse-related suicides. Journalists Hannah Lothman and Geraldine McKelvey share findings from their reporting, personal stories from families, and the calls for systemic and legislative reform.

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Key Points & Discussion Breakdown

1. Introducing the Issue: Suicides Reinvestigated as Manslaughter

[01:04]

• The episode opens with a warning about sensitive topics: domestic abuse and suicide.
• Host: “The chilling number of suicides being reinvestigated as manslaughter.”
• Recognition is growing that abuse-driven suicides may be unlawful killings, not suicides in the classic sense.

2. The Story of Georgia Barter

[01:12] – [08:14]
Featuring: Hannah Lothman

Georgia’s Background

• Described as vibrant, close with her sisters, a talented dancer whose early life was “full of promise.”
  Hannah Lothman ([01:35]):
  “She just loved it and she was very, very good at it. At one point it looked like she might have a career as a professional dancer. And she really gained in confidence from that.”

The Shift After Trauma

• Sexual assault led to PTSD, anxiety, and depression. She withdrew from her life and ambitions.
• Soon after, entered an intense, controlling relationship with Thomas Bignell.

Years of Abuse

• Endured physical, sexual, emotional, and financial abuse over a decade.
• Bignell “deprived her of necessities like food and hot water and electric. So she was completely under his control.” ([02:56])

Georgia’s Death and Legal Ramifications

• Died at 32 from a painkiller overdose following years of abuse ([03:27]).
• Inquest found her death was an “unlawful killing” due to domestic abuse—the second such ruling in UK history.
• “She died as a result of domestic abuse. It's only the second ever finding of its kind, but it could be just the beginning.” ([03:54])

Systemic Failures

• Multiple police forces and earlier abuse records, but no sustained action or prosecutions.
• No disclosure under Claire’s Law.
• Only years after her death was her case re-examined with this new legal lens.

Quote ([05:30]):
“She said on one occasion, Georgia looked like she'd been in a road traffic accident.” – Hannah Lothman

National Patterns

• New evidence: more women die by suicide after domestic abuse than are physically murdered.
• Academic research suggests the national figures are likely much higher than official reports.

Quote ([08:14]):
“It’s not tens of people who are dying every year from this, it's hundreds or even thousands.” – Hannah Lothman

Reporting Approach

• Emphasis on telling the full stories of the victims’ lives, not just how they died ([09:32]).

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3. The Case of Kimberley Milne: A Landmark Prosecution

[10:11] – [19:39]
Featuring: Geraldine McKelvey

Kimberley’s Life Before the Abuse

• Dundee native, “one in a million,” close family ties but struggled with mental health ([10:38]).

The Relationship With Lee Milne

• Met online, whirlwind romance, married quickly.
• “She thought she'd met her Prince Charming. She was looking for her happy ever after.” ([11:20])
• Family had early concerns; violence and coercive control surfaced soon after marriage.

Escalation of Abuse

• Lee Milne subjected her to choking, spitting, physical and psychological violence.
• Kimberley frequently disclosed abuse to both family and psychiatric professionals.
• Made a police complaint in May 2023; Lee Milne was on bail, prohibited from contacting her, but continued to do so ([13:46]).

The Night of Kimberley’s Death

• Witnesses saw Kimberley “distraught” with Lee shortly before her suicide.
• Lee pursued her onto the bridge; his presence violated bail conditions ([14:59]).
• Less than an hour later, she died by suicide on a road bridge.

Legal Firsts: Charging and Conviction

• Weeks later, police charged Lee Milne with culpable homicide—unprecedented in Scotland ([16:18]).
  • “It was quite a landmark decision.”
• Culpable homicide in Scotland is equivalent to manslaughter in England and Wales (“you are responsible for somebody’s death, but you haven’t intended to kill them.” [16:51])
• First time in Britain a jury convicted someone for a domestic abuse suicide where the person didn’t physically kill the victim.

Quote ([17:18]):
“Even when they've not physically caused that person's death… the jury was satisfied that he was responsible… because she felt like she had nowhere to go. The domestic abuse was so bad that she felt like she had no way out other than to take her own life.” – Nosheen Iqbal

Prosecutorial Perspective

• Alex Prentice KC, the prosecutor, initially faced uncertainty over charges.
• Emphasized the “causal connection” between the abuse and the suicide; painstaking work built the case ([18:02]).

Quote ([19:18]):
“It's not like the floodgates are going to open and we're going to suddenly have loads of these cases… But it sends a message that this can be done, and it will be done again if we have the evidence.” – Alex Prentice KC (paraphrased by Iqbal)

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4. Other Cases & Patterns: The Barriers to Justice

[19:39] – [23:32]

Case of Katie Madden

• Similar abuse pattern: partner on bail, prohibited contact ignored, suicide follows.
• The assailant encouraged suicide in messages (“go kill yourself”).
• Despite this, no charges pursued after her death; prior convictions for abuse were known ([21:10]).

Systemic Issues

• Charges against abusers often dropped after victims’ deaths.
• Police resource overstretch and “prioritization” of current victims over posthumous justice ([23:32]).
• Lack of timely investigation means evidence disappears, and cycles of abuse can continue with new victims.

Quote ([23:32]):
“It's not just about protecting one woman… but about the wider public.”

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5. Calls for Reform & Legislative Change

[24:44] – [27:32]

Problems with Delayed Investigations

• Many inquests and prosecutions delayed for years, diminishing evidence and lowering chances for justice.

Campaigners’ Recommendations

• Advocate for all suicides where there is a history of domestic abuse to be investigated as potential homicides from the outset ([25:05]).
• Evidence should be collected immediately; increases likelihood of conviction and deterrence.

Legal Developments

• Liberal Democrats recently tabled an amendment mandating police to pursue such deaths as suspected homicides ([26:14]).
• Debate over whether legal changes or shifts in policing attitudes and priorities are most needed.

Quote ([26:34]):
“Some people say that a change in the law is needed, but then if you speak to lawyers…what we need is this change in policing and police attitudes.”

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6. The Human Cost and The Power of Telling Stories

[27:12] – [29:21]
Hannah Lothman reflects:

• Abuse devastates all aspects of victims’ lives—mental health, social standing, substance misuse—complicating perceptions and legal proceedings.
• Defense for perpetrators often relies on highlighting these struggles as causes, ignoring the root trauma.
• Families battle for justice while grappling with trauma and loss.

Quote ([27:32]):
“The way to maybe encourage police forces or prosecutors to look again at these cases is when the public become aware and they start taking notice.”

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Memorable Quotes

• “She just wanted the pain of the abuse to stop.”
  – Hannah Lothman, on Georgia Barter ([03:27])

• “It was the first time a coroner… ruled that in a case of suicide after domestic abuse, that the person who died had been unlawfully killed.”
  – Hannah Lothman ([06:48])

• “It’s not sort of tens of people who are dying every year from this, it’s hundreds or even thousands.”
  – Hannah Lothman ([08:14])

• “The jury was satisfied that he was responsible for Kimberley’s death because she felt like she had nowhere to go.”
  – Nosheen Iqbal ([17:18])

• “Often their mental health is very poor… and I think that really has an impact on how they are treated, how they're perceived, how they're seen by police officers, how they're seen by the general public on a jury.”
  – Hannah Lothman ([27:32])

• “They’re out there and they're fighting and they're doing it while they're grieving, while they're traumatized. And they're doing that so bravely and they're really, really desperate for justice.”
  – Hannah Lothman ([28:57])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:12–08:14: Georgia Barter’s story, inquest findings, and system failures
• 10:11–19:39: Kimberley Milne’s case, historic prosecution, legal precedent
• 19:39–23:32: Other cases (Katie Madden), recurrent investigatory failures
• 23:32–27:12: Why prosecutions fail, police resource issues, calls for legal reform
• 27:32–29:21: The emotional toll, why storytelling and public awareness matter

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Tone & Language

Throughout, the conversation remains compassionate but direct, foregrounding the victims’ humanity and the gravity of institutional shortcomings.

“She had two sisters who she was very close to. She loved spending time with her family.”
— Reminding listeners of the lives, not just deaths, of affected women ([01:12])

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Summary of Takeaways

• The true toll of male violence is underestimated when only looking at murders: many women, destroyed by years of abuse, die by suicide.
• Legal and policing systems often lag behind or fail altogether, with abusers repeatedly escaping accountability.
• Landmark legal rulings are setting precedent but remain rare; campaigners and some politicians call for robust reform.
• The stigma and consequences of abuse ripple through all facets of victims’ lives, affecting investigations and the chance for justice.
• Telling these stories—restoring voices, not only cataloguing deaths—is central to shifting public consciousness and potentially catalyzing systemic change.

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For more, read The Guardian’s in-depth reporting by Hannah Lothman and Geraldine McKelvey, including articles on Georgia Barter and Kimberley Milne. If you have been affected by the issues discussed, support resources are available in the episode show notes.

Transcript

[Nosheen Iqbal]

This is the Guardian.

[Interviewer/Host]

Today. The chilling number of suicides being reinvestigated as manslaughter.

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[Interviewer/Host]

Just a quick warning before we start. There is discussion and description of domestic abuse and suicide.

[Hannah Lothman]

She had a big group of friends. She enjoyed going on nights out. She had two sisters who she was very close to. She loved spending time with her family.

[Interviewer/Host]

In photos, Georgia Barter looks happy and relaxed. A mass of blonde curls bobbed at the chin, framing a wide smile.

[Hannah Lothman]

And when she was little, she had all this curly hair and they used to call her Shirley Temple. But she was very, very shy, painfully shy. Her mum described her as. But then she started dancing. She just loved it and she was very, very good at it. At one point it looked like she might have a career as a professional dancer. And she really gained in confidence from that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Georgia won competitions and medals. She even performed at London theaters. But after one night out, she was sexually assaulted. The case went to court. Her attacker was jailed.

[Hannah Lothman]

She was deeply affected by it and she was later diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder and, and anxiety and depression. And she sort of stopped going out. She stopped dancing. And soon after she was introduced to Thomas Bignell by a friend and quickly got into this very intense relationship. And her family said they just noticed this change in Georgia and that she just wasn't the same person anymore.

[Interviewer/Host]

Georgia lived in London and worked in recruitment. But for the next decade, she seemed trapped by Thomas Bignell.

[Hannah Lothman]

There was evidence of physical violence, sexual violence, emotional abuse, financial abuse. Bignel was controlling her financially. They would go and live in different places. She'd be forced to quit jobs. Her family wouldn't always know where she was and he would be depriving her of necessities like food and hot water and electric. So she was completely under his control.

[Interviewer/Host]

The relationship cost Georgia her life.

[Hannah Lothman]

Georgia died in April 2020 in hospital. She had at home taken what turned out to be a fatal overdose. Of painkillers after enduring years of domestic abuse. Basically, how her mum described it was she just wanted the pain of the abuse to stop.

[Interviewer/Host]

She was dead at just 32 years old. But this wasn't a suicide in the way that we might normally understand it. An inquest into Georgia's death led the coroner to rule that it was an unlawful killing. She died as a result of domestic abuse. It's only the second ever finding of its kind, but it could be just the beginning. While many of us are familiar with the harrowing fact that more than two women are killed every week in the UK by men they've been in relationships with, the real death toll for male violence is far higher. A landmark report has revealed that the number of women in the UK who have suffered domestic abuse and are being driven to suicide is higher than those physically murdered by the men in their lives. And now there are calls for these deaths, like George's, to be investigated as manslaughter. From the Guardian, I'm Nosheen Iqbal. Today in focus, the fight to recognise domestic abuse related suicides. Hannah L othman, you're the Guardian's north of England correspondent and with senior reporter Geraldine McKelvey. You've both been reporting on these awful stories of domestic abuse suicides. The life and death of Georgia Barter is one that you covered in detail. Can you tell me about her case and what was heard at the inquest investigating how and why she died?

[Hannah Lothman]

The evidence that her mother gave to the inquest was really harrowing. She said on one occasion, Georgia looked like she'd been in a road traffic accident. In April 2020, she was taken to hospital. She told a paramedic that he'd kicked her and stamped on her face and the paramedic said the injuries that she presented with were consistent with that. She'd also just before that, been to hospital in Kent, bleeding. She told ambulance staff that Bignell had sexually assaulted her hospital, apparently with Bignel, with a cannula still in her arm. The hospital staff rang her and told her to come back, but she didn't. But no one told the police. A safeguarding referral was made, but not until several weeks later was there any action from that. When a domestic abuse charity got in touch. There were many, many incidents. There was an incident in 2012 where Surrey Police were called to report that Bignell had hit and kicked Georgia when they were staying in a hotel. And Thomas Bignell was arrested and taken into custody, but he was never charged.

[Interviewer/Host]

So clearly Georgia had endured years of his abuse and it had been recorded by the police, but he got away with it and he carried on.

[Hannah Lothman]

The Met and Essex Police had received multiple reports about Thomas Bignell's abuse of Georgia, including one from a member of the public who told Essex police that he had made threats to kill her. And he was arrested several times, but charged with any violent offences against Georgia. We know Bignell had at least one conviction related to violence against another woman. No disclosures were made to Georgia under Claire's Law, which is the domestic violence disclosure scheme, whereby police can provide information to someone who may be at risk from a current partner based on information that's held on police computers. I think there were four different police forces that had interactions with Thomas in relation to the abuse on Georgia, but he'd never charged with anything. And it was only five years after her death that this inquest was held. And it was the first time a coroner sitting without a jury had ruled that in a case of suicide after domestic abuse that the person who died had been unlawfully killed.

[Interviewer/Host]

The Crown Prosecution Service has said there was insufficient evidence to bring charges in relation to George's death. You, in your reporting, spoke to some academics who claim that or have stated that victims of domestic abuse are now more likely to die by suicide than they are to be killed by a partner or a former partner. Can you tell me a bit more about what you learned there?

[Hannah Lothman]

So we knew that already from the National Police Chiefs Council. So they produce an annual report on domestic homicides. And the latest version of that report showed, for the third year running, that more people died from suicide in an abusive relationship than they did in what people may traditionally think is a domestic homicide. So being murdered by a partner. But when I spoke to the academic at Kent, what he said is actually the definition that the police used to compile these figures is pretty narrow in terms of what domestic abuse they include and the period that they include it from. And so he just looked at Kentucky and he found, I think it was 10 or 15 times, actually, that number of people were dying. And, you know, if you extrapolate that nationally, it's not sort of tens of people who are dying every year from this, it's hundreds or even thousands.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow. And then there's this report by the Domestic Homicide Project, which was published last week and identified the first case of a teenage girl being driven to suicide after suffering domestic abuse. And it was just goes to show how endemic this problem is. Hannah, how have you approached your reporting on it?

[Hannah Lothman]

Often when you read about a court case or you read about A death or you read about an inquest, it is so focused on the woman's death and, you know, the crime that ended their life. But actually what we've really wanted to do is tell the stories of who these women were as people and not just how they died, but, you know, how they lived and who they were before they got into this relationship and what they meant to their families, to their friends, to their loved ones.

[Interviewer/Host]

Geraldine McKelvey, thank you for being here.

[Nosheen Iqbal]

Thanks for having me.

[Interviewer/Host]

Now your senior correspondent for the Guardian. One of the cases that you followed is that of Kimberly Milne. She was in her late 20s when she tragically ended her life by jumping from a Bridge in July 2023. Last month, her husband, Lee Milne, was found guilty of culpable homicide, where a jury found that he had caused her death. Geraldine, first off, can you just tell me a bit more about Kimberley? Who was she before she met Lee Milne?

[Nosheen Iqbal]

So Kimberley grew up in a close knit family in Dundee, which is a city in the northeast of Scotland, and she lived all of her life in Dundee. She was one of four sisters and in their victim impact statements to the court, her family described her as a much loved sister daughter. They said she was one in a million. But throughout her life she'd struggled with mental health problems. Her mum talked about her history of mental health issues before she met Lee Milne. She'd had a suicide attempt. She had spent quite a lot of time receiving inpatient psychiatric care. So she was a very vulnerable person before she met Lee Milne.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what do we know about how and when she met Leigh Milne and, you know, what kind of man he appeared to be at first.

[Nosheen Iqbal]

So I think her family said in evidence that she thought she'd met her Prince Charming. She was looking for her happy ever after. She hadn't had a very easy life because of the mental health difficulties that she'd suffered. So I think when Lee Milne came along and was very charming, they met online in late 2021. I think she thought this was the happy ending that she'd been looking for and they quite quickly got married. They got married in October 2022. So it was a bit of a whirlwind romance that, that they had and I think that to the outside world, to, to people looking on, it might have seemed like she was happy and she, she'd finally met somebody and she was wanted to spend her life with him.

[Interviewer/Host]

And so when did the cracks in that relationship first begin to show, I guess particularly to the people who were close around her?

[Nosheen Iqbal]

Well, one of the things that the jury decided in Kimberley's case, when they were convicting Leigh Mellon of engaging in a course of abusive conduct, that he had tried to isolate her from her family. And her younger sister, Nikki, said in evidence that he filled her head with absolute gobbledygook. Nikki felt that Kimberly hadn't particularly wanted to get married, but Leigh Milne had sort of persuaded her to get married very early in the relationship. I think they'd only been together about a year at the point that they did get married. And before the wedding, there had been several instances of quite horrific violence. Like Lee Milne had choked Kimberley, he'd spat in her mouth, he'd attacked her. But alongside that really horrific physical violence leading up to their wedding, he had also been trying to isolate her from her family, control her finances. The abuse was sort of psychological and emotional as well as physical. I think our family started to become really concerned in the immediate aftermath of the wedding. Her older sister Lindy, said in evidence that the mother. Morning after the wedding, Kimberly phoned her and she was very upset, she was hyperventilating, she was really stressed because they'd had a fight and she wanted to come home to the family home. So Lindsay got her a taxi to her grandmother's house. But ultimately she went back to Leigh Milne and the relationship resumed. But I think the family from quite early on in the relationship were concerned about it and didn't think it was particularly a healthy relationship for Kimberley to be in.

[Interviewer/Host]

And were there any other services that she accessed? Was there any other help outside of her family that she made contact with?

[Nosheen Iqbal]

So she had quite a lot of contact with psychiatric services and NHS mental health services. And actually she made some disclosures about the abuse to staff. And I think then the staff suggested that she might want to have some contact with the police over this, and that is how her original police complaint in May 2023 came about. And Leigh Milne appeared in court in May 2023, accused of litany of domestic abuse offences against Kimberley. So one of the incidents that Kimberley told the police about was an attack she suffered. She had tried to barricade the door to stop Lee Milne from attacking her further. And he managed to force Angie into the room that she was in and began punching her again. And that evening, I think she decided to sleep with a knife under her pillow because she was so scared of him, but she was also really scared to leave because she didn't know if that would antagonize him even further. So at the point when Kimberley died in July 2020, three, his bail conditions prohibited him from contacting her or being in touch with her in any way. So even the fact that he was with her on the night of her death was a violation of his bail.

[Interviewer/Host]

So Lee Milne didn't stick to his bail conditions and he continued to terrorise Kimberley. What happened next?

[Nosheen Iqbal]

So, on the night Kimberley died, they were seen by quite a few witnesses together in a retail park in Dundee and later on in a supermarket. And the witnesses described Kimberly as distraught in Lee Mellon's company. They described him as acting aggressively towards her. There was CCTV footage of him driving very erratically with her in the car, remonstrating with her in a supermarket very shortly before she took her own life. And less than an hour later, Kimberley walked onto a road bridge above the A90, which is a main road in Scotland, at links Dundee with Edinburgh and Aberdeen, and she jumped to her death. And. And what was quite crucial in this case was that at that point Lee Milne was following her, he was pursuing her onto the bridge. He claimed to the police, when he was later interviewed by the police, that he was trying to run after her to stop her from jumping from the bridge. But ultimately she did jump from the bridge and very sadly lost her life that night.

[Interviewer/Host]

Can you tell me about the aftermath of Kimberley's death? I mean, how was the decision then made to charge Lee Milne?

[Nosheen Iqbal]

It wasn't made immediately. The police interviewed him almost immediately after the event, but I think it was several weeks before they made the decision to charge him with culpable homicide. And it's worth seeing here that that had never happened in Scotland before. The Crown Office and Prosecutor for School Service, which is a sort of Scottish equivalent of the cps, had never charged anyone with culpable homicide in relation to a domestic abuse related suicide. So it was quite a landmark decision.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what does culpable homicide exactly mean? How does it differ from a regular understanding of homicide?

[Nosheen Iqbal]

So it's important at this point to mention that Scotland has a different legal system from England and Wales. So the offence of culpable homicide in Scottish law is equivalent to what we would think of as manslaughter in England and Wales. And that is where you are responsible for somebody's death, but you haven't intended to kill them. So it's less severe in the eyes of the law than murder. But it does mean that you do have the responsibility for causing somebody's death.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the case made literal history.

[Nosheen Iqbal]

Yes, yeah. And it's the first time it's worth seeing that it's the first time anywhere in Britain that a jury has convicted somebody of killing their current or former partner in a domestic abuse suicide situation, even when they've not physically caused that person's death. Like, Lee Milne didn't strike the fatal blow, if you like, but the jury was satisfied that he was responsible for Kimberley's death because she felt like she had nowhere to go. The domestic abuse was so bad that she felt like she had no way out other than to take her own life.

[Interviewer/Host]

Jordan, you did speak to the prosecutor for this case. What did they have to say about what happened to Kimberley and how the culpable hunt homicide conviction came about?

[Nosheen Iqbal]

The prosecutor, Alex Pentis Casey, he's one of the most eminent criminal lawyers in Scotland, and he said that initially there were mixed views on whether they could charge Leigh Milne with culpable homicide because it was very complex. It had never been tried before. But he looked at the history of domestic abuse and what had happened, not just on the night of Kimberley's death, but in the months and weeks before that. And he thought that there was a possibility that a jury might accept that there was a causal connection between those two things. He asked the police to do some more work on the case, and eventually they got to the point where they felt that they were able to charge Lee Milne with culpable homicide.

[Hannah Lothman]

In this case, we had a catalogue

[Interviewer/Host]

of abusive behavior of varying degrees, extending to choking, to physically assaulting her, to shouting and swearing at her, chasing her,

[Hannah Lothman]

throwing things at her and spitting on

[Interviewer/Host]

her, and a number of really horrible things.

[Hannah Lothman]

And the point about the course of

[Interviewer/Host]

conduct is that it's persistent, that this is every day. How did Prentiss explain the legal precedent that's now been set and what other prosecutors may look at or police forces when it comes to trying to build a case like this?

[Nosheen Iqbal]

So he was very clear that they're very difficult cases to navigate. It's not like the floodgates are going to open and we're going to suddenly have loads of these cases coming before the court because they are so difficult to ev and so difficult to prosecute. But he said what it does, it sends, like, a message that this can be done, and it will be done again if we have the evidence.

[Interviewer/Host]

Geraldine, you've looked at a lot of cases like Kimberley's, but hers was unusual because the majority of them don't end up being investigated. They don't go to court, and they certainly don't get the culpable homicide or manslaughter conviction.

[Nosheen Iqbal]

And the majority of the cases that we have looked at in the context of domestic abuse related suicides, that hasn't happened. And one very sad case that I looked at was the case of Katie Madden. And Katie lived in Lowsoft in Suffolk and she very sadly lost her Life also in 2023. Katie's case, I guess was similar to Kimberley's in the respect that her former partner Jonathan Russell was on bail and banned from contacting her at the point where she took her own life. And Jonathan Russell had been accused of attacking Katie in the weeks before her death. And he wasn't supposed to have any contact with her, just like Lee Milne was not supposed to have any contact with Kimberley. But shortly before Katie died, there was some contact between Katie and Jonathan and they did speak on the phone. And Jonathan was later asked by the coroner at Katie's inquest what the general contents of that call were. And he said it was very erratic at the start. She was crying, she was just panicky. I tried to reassure her. Then it escalated into an argument and I ended up saying bad stuff. The coroner then specifically asked Jonathan if he had told Katie that she should hang herself. And he said, I didn't say hang herself. There was a couple of references where I said, go kill yourself instantly. I went back on myself and said, no, don't be silly, don't do that.

[Interviewer/Host]

So he literally messaged her telling her to kill herself.

[Nosheen Iqbal]

That is my understanding. But unlike Kimberly's case, the assault investigation was dropped very shortly after Katie's death. And I've tried really hard to get answers from Suffolk police about this, but to the best of my knowledge, they have not pursued an investigation into Jonathan Russell for any offenses after Katie's death. And it's worth saying as well that Jonathan Russell had a previous conviction for attacking another partner and Katie had received a clears law disclosure outlining Jonathan Russell's history and the fact he had a previous conviction.

[Interviewer/Host]

Coming up. Would a change in the law help these women get justice?

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[Interviewer/Host]

One thing that many of the cases that you've reported on have in common is the fact that domestic abuse charges are being dropped after the women's deaths. Hannah, why was that happening?

[Hannah Lothman]

I spoke to Louisa Rolfe, the National Police Youth Council lead about this and it is a feature of, you know, our current criminal justice system that police forces are very overstretched. I think in some cases it is, you know, lack of prioritization or, you know, officers not taking them as seriously as they should. But she said sometimes it will come down to the fact, as awful as it sounds, that they have cases with living victims who are in serious danger and they're having to make that decision over which ones they prioritize. And it's about potentially saving the life of a victim who's currently in a relationship rather than investigating it after someone has died. But one thing I would say particularly that we've identified from our reporting is it's not just about protecting one woman because we've seen that in these cases, often the abusers will then go on to, you know, get into a relationship with someone else or we've heard court cases at inquest that they have a history of domestic abuse against other women. So it is not just about protecting one woman who is currently in a relationship with that person, but about the wider public.

[Interviewer/Host]

Nonetheless, your reporting and the general momentum behind the cases like this, it raised a lot of public awareness and I wonder how much that's changed the temperature in terms of what campaigners are asking for or whether there's any suggestions there may be a change to a law or a change to the resources that, that police have to investigate these cases.

[Hannah Lothman]

I think one of the issues with this is often we're seeing cases not come to court until 5, 6, 7 years later or even inquests not being held until 5, 6, 7 years Later. The quality of evidence is lost, people's memories deteriorate. And particularly in a criminal trial where people will be cross examined, that's harder to get that conviction if that time has passed and the evidence isn't as good as. And one thing that campaigners have said is that the issue is a lot of these cases don't even start being investigated as a potential homicide until many years down the line. So in that case, the evidence hasn't even been collected in the first place. So what they're saying is where there's any history of domestic abuse, so, you know, if the police know they've been out to that house five times over the past year, then they should immediately start to treat that as a homicide. And it could be that it wasn't a homicide, that it was a suicide. But the campaigners say if every case was looked at as a potential homicide, then you have the best chance of securing those convictions.

[Interviewer/Host]

In March this year, the Liberal Democrats tabled an amendment to the Crime and Policing bill which would legally mandate police to investigate all suicides preceded by a history of domestic abuse as potential homicides. So exactly what you're talking about, can you tell me about the reaction to that amendment? Is there support for it and how would it change the lives of women experiencing domestic abuse?

[Hannah Lothman]

There are different ways to look at this. There are some people who say that a change in the law is needed, but then if you speak to lawyers, a lot of them say what we need is this change in policing and police attitudes and how they investigate these crimes, which is what the Lib Dems were calling for. The argument is that it will make it easier for a jury to understand what has happened, because there have been recent, quite high profile cases that have come to court where those on trial have either been cleared of everything or they've been convicted of some offences, but not the manslaughter.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hannah, I know you've got a lot of experience in reporting on violence against women and girls, but these cases, these stories, these reporting that you've been doing has been. Been absolutely remarkable and powerful and shocking and sad. And I wonder how the experience has left you feeling and what you're motivated to do next.

[Hannah Lothman]

I think one thing that I have understood from reporting on this is part of the barrier, I think, to a lot of these women getting justice is the impact that domestic violence has on their whole lives, on their mental health, on their physical health. They're so traumatized by the abuse that often their mental health is very poor. Often women that I've written about have taken drugs or they've had a reliance on alcohol, and I think that really has an impact on how they are treated, how they're perceived, how they're seen by police officers, how they're seen by the general public on a jury. When their cases come to court, perpetrators will offer a defense of, well, you know, she had mental health problems or, you know, she had addictions, but that is because of the domestic abuse. I would hope that our reporting will help more people to understand that and really get that awareness into their public consciousness. I've sat down with so many families, you know, they're out there and they're fighting and they're doing it while they're grieving, while they're traumatized. And they're doing that so bravely and they're really, really desperate for justice. And I think what I am motivated to do is to just tell these women's stories because I think the way to maybe encourage police forces or prosecutors to look again at these cases is when the public become aware and they start taking notice.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hannah, thank you so much for your reporting and your work. It's honestly been so brilliant. Thank you so much for your time as well.

[Hannah Lothman]

Thank you for speaking to me. Thank you for having me on.

[Interviewer/Host]

That was north of England correspondent Hannah L. Othman and senior reporter Geraldine McKelvey. You can read all their reporting on theguardian.com including their stories on the lives of Georgia Barter and Kimberley Milne. If you've been affected by any of the issues in this episode, you can find where to get help help in the show. Notes that's it for today. This episode was presented by me, Noshi Nikbal. It was produced by Eleanor Biggs and Tom Glasser. Sound design was by Alex Atak and the executive producer was Huma Khalili. We'll be back later today with the latest.

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