Trump on rampage at Nato summit: what does it mean for Ukraine? – The Latest

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trump on rampage at NATO summit: what does it mean for Ukraine? – The Latest

Podcast: Today in Focus (The Guardian)
Host: Lucy Hough
Guest: Sean Walker (Central and East Europe Correspondent, The Guardian)
Date: July 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this edition of "The Latest," host Lucy Hough is joined by Sean Walker, The Guardian's Central and East Europe correspondent, for an incisive breakdown of the ongoing NATO summit in Ankara, Turkey. The episode focuses on Donald Trump's combative presence at the summit, the evolving dynamics between NATO allies, and the critical implications for Ukraine amid intensified conflict and shifting Western support. The discussion offers a nuanced exploration of how drone warfare, internal European solidarity, and unpredictable US diplomacy are reshaping the prospects for Ukraine and the broader security picture in Europe.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Grim Situation in Kyiv and Ukraine’s Shifting Battlefield

• Kyiv under Fire: Sean Walker offers an on-the-ground update, noting that recent weeks have been particularly brutal in Kyiv due to Russia’s intensifying long-range missile and drone strikes.
  • "For residents of Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, things are the worst that they've been for a while in terms of those incoming long range missile and drone strikes that we see from Russia." – Sean Walker [01:49]
• War Takes to the Skies: Air raid sirens and the use of underground metro stations as shelters have become routine for many Kyiv residents who previously felt relatively protected.
• Drone Warfare Escalation: Ukraine's use of long-range drones, notably successful attacks deep into Russia (e.g., Omsk oil refinery), aims to disrupt Russian infrastructure and ratchet up economic pressure on Moscow.
  • "Just this week, Ukrainian drones hit a refinery in Omsk... It's way, way, way into Russia. So that's kind of causing a bit of disquiet in Russia, causing, you know, stress and anger over lack of petrol." – Sean Walker [03:04]

2. Trump’s Unpredictable Role at the NATO Summit

• 1400-Strong Delegation & Odd Details: Trump's arrival in Ankara carries its own spectacle—including a sizeable retinue and attention-grabbing details (e.g., staff tasked with collecting his toilet waste for security reasons, a protocol more commonly associated with authoritarian leaders).
  • "...some of that number are there to collect his toilet waste and take it off site so it can't be analyzed for intelligence on the state of his health, which is protocol that I didn't know about..." – Lucy Hoff [03:47]
• Kyiv’s Changing Calculus: Ukraine is now less dependent on US military aid than before, owing to increased European support and a massive financial package from the EU. Yet, Trump remains pivotal due to his outsize influence on potential peace negotiations and his willingness (or reluctance) to pressure Putin.
  • "Trump is still really crucial to this idea of how do you end the war and is there a way to put pressure on Putin?” – Sean Walker [04:50]
  • "Kyiv is actually less dependent on the US than it has been at any time in the war." – Sean Walker [04:50]

3. Europe’s Steadfast Response and a New Dynamic within NATO

• Europe Steps Up: With Viktor Orban’s ouster and the EU’s €90 billion loan to Ukraine, European nations are more unified and assertive in their support.
  • "Europe is pretty solid, united and resolute, and Trump is arriving in the face of that unity..." – Lucy Hoff [06:04]
• Two Schools of NATO Thought: Sean Walker describes the alliance now operating on two tracks:
  • Those who believe the US is irreplaceable and aim to maintain good relations with Trump, even if it means public flattery ("sucking up to Trump").
  • Those preparing for a reality where the US may no longer be a reliable strategic ally, moving towards European self-reliance.
    • "One diplomat who said to me, you know, it's cringe, but we don't mind as long as it delivers Trump." – Sean Walker [06:39]

4. Trump’s “Rogue” Foreign Policy and Alliance Tensions

• Grievances & Outbursts: Trump arrives "in a grump," attacking allies whose defense spending or diplomatic positions displease him, and reviving ideas like buying Greenland or slamming Spain, the UK, and Italy.
  • "He's talked about cutting trade with Spain, who he says are hopeless, bad people. The UK And Italy are also in the doghouse." – Lucy Hoff [08:14]
• A Paradox in US Attitudes: Walker articulates a fundamental contradiction: the US expects allies to be more independent yet resents their autonomy when the US acts unilaterally.
  • "...there's this kind of strange paradox in the way Trump looks at allies... when the US acts unilaterally on something like Iran without even consulting its allies ... they get very offended and upset." – Sean Walker [09:00]
• Concerns for the Future: There’s growing anxiety in European capitals that, post-ceasefire in Ukraine, Europe may have to fend for itself against future Russian aggression if US commitment wanes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Drone impact deep in Russia:

  • "Ukrainian drones hit a refinery in Omsk... That's further away from Kyiv than London is. So that's kind of causing ... stress and anger over lack of petrol [in Russia]."
    – Sean Walker [03:04]

• On the EU’s financial support’s effect:

  • "Europe is pretty solid, united and resolute, and Trump is arriving in the face of that unity. The dynamics are really different to previous NATO summits."
    – Lucy Hoff [06:04]

• On two tracks within NATO:

  • "There was one diplomat who said to me, you know, it's cringe, but we don't mind as long as it delivers Trump... But there is this question of does it deliver Trump or does Trump just pocket the compliments and carry on on his own Trumpian way."
    – Sean Walker [06:39]

• On US resentment towards independent allies:

  • "...when the US acts unilaterally on something like Iran ... and Europe says, well, actually, you know, we don't like this ... They get very offended and upset. So I think that that kind of tension is, is perhaps going to come out more and more if Trump continues with, with sort of this quite rogue foreign policy."
    – Sean Walker [09:00]

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Key Timestamps

• 01:49 – The dire state of Kyiv and the impact of Russian aerial attacks.
• 03:04 – Ukraine’s drone campaign inside Russian territory and its strategic objectives.
• 04:50 – Discussion on US-Ukrainian relations, Trump’s influence, and shifting dependencies.
• 06:04 – Europe’s unified response and increased support for Ukraine post-Orban.
• 06:39 – Sean Walker explains the dual approaches to dealing with Trump within NATO.
• 08:14 – Trump’s grievances towards European allies and implications for the alliance.
• 09:00 – Walker delves into the paradox and tensions in US-allies relations.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a concise but far-reaching look at NATO’s current crossroads, as European unity hardens and the US, under Trump, wavers between complaints and ultimatums. The conversation between Lucy Hough and Sean Walker underscores the strategic uncertainty hanging over Ukraine and the alliance, even as Kyiv adapts to new realities both on the battlefield and in geopolitics. The upcoming second day of the Ankara summit promises continued tension, particularly as Trump’s unpredictable approach to foreign policy puts both unity and security to the test.

Transcript

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[Sean Walker]

Trump is still really crucial to this idea of how do you end the war? Is there a way to put pressure on Putin?

[Unidentified Commentator]

We've settled a lot of wars and this one is the one that I thought maybe would be the easiest. But Putin's a difficult character and this guy's a difficult character.

[Sean Walker]

There's a kind of strange paradox in the way Trump looks at allies. That kind of tension is perhaps going to come out more and more if Trump continues with this quite rogue foreign

[Lucy Hoff]

policy from the Guardians today in focus. This is the latest with me, Lucy Hoff. A two day summit began yesterday in Ankara in Turkey, the main event happening today with a big focus on Ukraine. Sean Walker, you are our Central and East Europe correspondent. You're based in Warsaw. You've just returned from Ukraine. I wonder if we can start there before we look at the summit itself and why the stakes are so high. I mean, there's some reporting in our paper that things are the worst they've been in some time.

[Sean Walker]

Well, I think certainly for residents of Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, things are the worst that they've been for a while in terms of those incoming long range missile and drone strikes that we see from Russia. There was a long time in the war where Ukraine know obviously everything was going on at the front. But if you lived in the center of Kyiv, you'd more or less feel that Ukrainian air defence would take care of you. As Ukraine's getting shorter and shorter on air defence, that equation has changed. Russia is kind of really, really pushing because the front lines are kind of more or less static. So the war has taken to the skies. Ukraine is sending its long range drones towards Russia and, and Russia is smashing up Ukrainian cities. So it was really quite brutal in Kyiv last week. Thousands of people in the metro, lots of people who haven't been concerned up to now, very, really quite concerned in the capital.

[Lucy Hoff]

You've also written about how crucial drone warfare has become in terms of some successes from the Ukrainian side against Russia. And that is something that Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, is really pushing for as he attends the this two Day summit in Ankara, isn't it?

[Sean Walker]

Well, yeah, that's right. I mean, Ukraine has achieved some really remarkable attacks on Russia, particularly on the oil infrastructure. I mean, just this week, Ukrainian drones hit a refinery in Omsk, which is. Yeah, that's further away from Kyiv than London is. It's way, way, way into Russia. So that's kind of causing a bit of disquiet in Russia, causing, you know, stress and anger over lack of petrol. And I think the hope in Kyiv is that by really putting that economic pressure on Russia and bringing the war to Russia, that it kind of pushes Moscow into getting serious about talks, which we haven't really seen yet.

[Lucy Hoff]

Yeah. And obviously crucial to all of this is the ever unreliable Donald Trump, who landed in Ankara yesterday with a vast delegation of 1400 people. I was quite interested in the detail that some of that number are there to collect his toilet waste and take it off site so it can't be analyzed for intelligence on the state of his health, which is protocol that I didn't know about, and definitely a job that I do not ever want to have. How would you describe the state of relations between Zelenskyy and Trump at the moment? Because it is an ever fluctuating one. But he will be hoping, won't he, to have support from NATO allies on this drone deal in particular.

[Sean Walker]

Yeah, I was also surprised by that detail. And it's something we used to write about with Vladimir Putin. There's a guy who literally carries a suitcase around that kind of follows Putin on his trips. But I thought that was more like a paranoid Kremlin situation rather than generally a part of, like, world leaders Retinue.

[Lucy Hoff]

Crikey.

[Unidentified Commentator]

Yeah.

[Sean Walker]

I think on Trump, I mean, it's really interesting because in many ways, Kyiv is actually less dependent on the US than it has been at any time in the war. Obviously, the US doesn't send military aid anymore. Europe has stepped up with, you know, Viktor Orban's been kicked out of office in Hungary. Europe stepped up with a huge financial aid for Kyiv. So in some ways, that gives the Ukrainians a little bit more leeway. They're developing their own drones and so on. But, of course, Trump is still really crucial to this idea of how do you end the war and is there a way to put pressure on Putin? You know, Ukraine had a really grim winter last year. They really don't want to be fighting for another winter, if there is any way not to. And so I think that kind of trying to get Trump back in the. In the frame of mind. That, you know, you can't just end this war by ordering Ukraine to give up Donbass. You have to put some pressure on both sides. And I think that's where certainly Western leaders and Zelenskyy will want to see if there's any change in Trump or if we're just sort of back to, you know, I've had a great call with Putin, and, like, Zelenskyy shouldn't have got into this war, which is what we've heard from him in the past.

[Lucy Hoff]

But it's really interesting what you were just saying there about Europe and sort of how the dynamics of this NATO summit are different to previous ones in that given that Orban has left power and the European Union was able to agree that whopping 90 billion loan to Ukraine, that has sort of transformed much of its efforts on the battlefield. Europe is pretty solid, united and resolute, and Trump is arriving in the face of that unity. The dynamics are really different to previous NATO summits. Would you agree?

[Sean Walker]

Yeah. I think what we've been seeing since Trump comes back 18 months ago is these sort of two tracks, two schools of thought. One is, we have to be. The Americans have so much we can't do without them. We have to be as nice as possible to Trump, because even if we get a little bit from Trump, that's better than breaking this alliance. And, you know, you still see that with Mark Rutter, with the Secretary General of NATO, the way he's really been sort of almost sucking up to Trump. There was one. One diplomat who said to me, you know, it's cringe, but we don't mind as long as it delivers Trump. But obviously, there is this question of does it deliver Trump or is, you know, does Trump just sort of pocket the compliments and. And carry on on his own Trumpian way, which seems to be mostly the dynamics. So I think there's this kind of second school of thought, which is that, you know, okay, we shouldn't try to blow this up like we should. We should try and calm things down where possible. But we have to assume that the US Under Trump, and maybe under whoever follows Trump, is no longer the big strategic ally, the big partner. And we have to try and get ready for some kind of reality where maybe once there's a ceasefire in Ukraine, Putin launches an attack on NATO and the US Isn't there. And I think more and more people are talking about that, but still quite scared of it. And it's still a process because, you know, just to reiterate, I mean, the US Military side in NATO, not to mention the intelligence gathering and so on. I mean, it is irreplaceable in the short term, and a lot of people are cognizant of that.

[Lucy Hoff]

Yeah. And of course, it's something that Donald Trump himself has talked about for many, many years about wanting in his time in office, about wanting other NATO allies to increase their defense spend. It does sound like he's arrived in anchor in a bit of a grump about that. He has been talking about Greenland again, which is something we haven't spoken about for a long time, saying he still wants to get his hands on it. He's talked about cutting trade with Spain, who he says are hopeless, bad people. The UK And Italy are also in the doghouse. So is that about defense spending again, or about this sort of general bad vibes given that Europe did not step up to support him in his war with Iran and have got this increasingly hard line on Ukraine?

[Sean Walker]

Yeah, I mean, the Iran situation clearly has irritated Trump a lot. I mean, again, perhaps surprising for some allies. You saw Mark Rutter today really kind of supporting Trump on Iran, saying it was, you know, it was essentially a great thing to launch that, that military action. I mean, to me, it feels like the kind of heart of this is, this is kind of strange paradox in the way Trump looks at allies because on the one hand, they're saying, look, we're not the, we're not the global hegemon anymore that's going to come in and sort things out for you. You have to pay your own way. You have to be more independent. But at the same time, when the US Acts unilaterally on something like Iran without even consulting its allies, and Europe says, well, actually, you know, we don't like this. We're not going to facilitate this. They get very offended and upset. So I think that that kind of tension is, is perhaps going to come out more and more if Trump continues with, with sort of this quite rogue foreign policy.

[Lucy Hoff]

Yeah. Well, it sounds like it's going to be a testy second day of this summit. Sean, thank you so much for your time.

[Sean Walker]

Thanks for having me.

[Lucy Hoff]

That's it for today. My huge thanks again to Sean Walker, the Guardian central and Eastern Europe correspondent. You can keep up with his brilliant reporting [e-mail] as well as live coverage of the NATO summit. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Latest Today in Focus. We'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning as usual. The latest will be back tomorrow night. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. It was produced by Sam Grouet and Leo Schick. The senior producer was Ryan Ramgovin.

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