Betsy Reed (2:27)

Well, unfortunately, I can't explain to you going on because the mystery of the day in the US Is why, like, why she would have done that when it serves, you know, absolutely no clear political purpose for the White House, in fact, undermines the fact that they're trying to shift the conversation away from Epstein.

Lucy Hoff (2:47)

Yeah.

Betsy Reed (2:48)

So it really was quite bizarre. And even among the sort of Fox News crowd, there is just Complete bafflement as to why she would be doing this. There are some theories floating around about, you know, because the only potential logic for this kind of thing would be to get ahead of a story that was gonna come out that could be damaging. But there's no evidence of what that might be. And the story is really already out there. I mean, there are emails that have come to light where she's exchanged pleasantries with Galan Maxwell, and the pictures are all well known, capturing her relationship with. With Trump and, you know, her traveling in the same social circles as Epstein and Maxwell. I mean, it's clear that she was there at some of these parties.

Lucy Hoff (3:39)

Yeah. And she said both New York and Palm beach are very small social circles. So we mixed, but we were not close friends. And she also described the email with Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's accomplice, as sort of like a pleasant exchange, but they had no friendship. But it is bizarre, as you say, given that no one really knows. There's no sense of an impending story. And Trump has been so desperate to keep Epstein out of the headlines. And indeed, there is always this speculation, isn't there, that the shock and awe of these types of international interventions, like the war in Iran, are designed to distract from his domestic woes, not least the Epstein files. So he must be fairly ired by this, we expect.

Betsy Reed (4:22)

I mean, one could only imagine what kinds of conversations are going on, you know, behind the scenes right now.

Lucy Hoff (4:28)

If they speak at all, which, you know, Sam and Decay, you can't imagine they have regular dinners together. But, you know, he. He doesn't want this to be in the headlines again.

Betsy Reed (4:36)

No. And in fact, really, interestingly, she concluded with a call for the Epstein victims to be given a public hearing in Congress, which is something that the Democrats in Congress and occasional Republicans have been calling for for months, but are being stonewalled by the White House and by powerful Republicans in Congress. So that's really interesting, you know, and I mean, we can have a lot of speculation and theories about why she did what she did. It is actually possible that she believes that that is, you know, would be a just outcome. So I think it's actually helpful to, you know, the cause of people who are trying to, like, you know, get full accountability for what happened with Yabs

Lucy Hoff (5:17)

and justice for the. For the hundreds of victims of these terrible crimes. So let's talk about the war in Iran. It's been quite the week, hasn't it? I think starting on Tuesday, extraordinary post on Truth Social that effectively threatened to destroy an entire civilization of 90 million people in Iran. We've moved from there to this very fragile ceasefire. More talks over the weekend in Islamabad, but things feeling, you know, like they're really hanging in the balance and still very febrile. I'm wondering from, from your perspective in the US how this has been playing out domestically, particularly amongst Trump's MAGA base, who were of course, promised America first and the end of forever wars.

Betsy Reed (6:04)

Yeah, it's a fascinating question. And there are definitely signs that elements of the base are restive and frustrated that he's taken such a turn away from the isolationist and even anti war rhetoric that he used during the, especially the final months of the election, which drew to him some support from this base of angry young men. But I do think we have to be careful not to sort of overstate this rebellion because, you know, there have been some statements by podcasters like Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn that have been very critical. And of course there's Tucker Carlson, but you know, you still have the entire kind of right wing establishment media behind him. Fox News, the Wall Street Journal. So in the polling, you see that he is at a historic low in his administration. It's hovering around 39%. But also you see that the support for the war is around the same level. It's about 38% of the American public actually supports this war. So I mean, I don't really think that we can say confidently that there is, you know, a real uprising against this war among the sort of personality cult that he has so assiduously cultivated. There is a certain resilience of his popularity among that base. Now that said, there is a huge swath of the country that in the sort of more independence and center right voters who swung to him in the election and helped get him elected that have soured on him completely. So his level of support is hovering around 40% or just under, which may be enough for him to get by, but it's looking very questionable.

Lucy Hoff (8:00)

Yes, although that's so interesting to hear. And actually I'm surprised to hear about the level of American support for the war that feels striking. But there is concern, isn't there, about the tone of these posts that he's been posting on Truth Social at strange times of the day and night, the sort of the way he's sounding in press conferences. And there have been calls to invoke the 25th Amendment to effectively eject him for being unfit for office that our sister podcast, Politics Weekly America, have looked at in great detail with our colleague Johnny Friedland those calls are coming from Democrats in sizable numbers, but also people who would be traditionally loyal to Trump, people like Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, these podcasters, you know, the former real close ally Marjorie Taylor Greene. I mean, do you sense that, you know, is there seriousness in that, do you think?

Betsy Reed (8:54)

Well, I mean, first, I would just say it is. It is worth dwelling on just how truly shocking his comments were about, you know, threatening to destroy an entire civilization. And it's good that there is a rising level of outrage, even though, you know, he sets the bar so low with his, you know, his regular, like, incredibly vitriolic attacks on, you know, the Haitian immigrant community. But this was really, it did feel like a new low and truly terrifying. And I do think, you know, there. There are more people Talking about the 25th Amendment, occasional voices on the right. I do think, though, it's, you know, it's not actually a practical likelihood, because the first step, by law would need to mean that his own cabinet would embrace it and his vice president, and there's. He's really surrounded himself by, you know, people who are hardcore loyalists. Fleet loyalists. Yeah. So it's very unlikely that will happen. However, it is, I mean, I think it is, you know, a very effective and principled political stand to call for this, you know, given that he is so clearly unhinged.

Lucy Hoff (10:11)

Yeah. And issued effectively, a genocidal message.

Betsy Reed (10:14)

Exactly.

Lucy Hoff (10:15)

That warrants a serious response. And mercifully, it does seem like there has been one this week, whatever happens next for him. So the vice president, J.D. vance, has been in Hungary this week supporting the government there, led by Viktor Orban. Hugely interesting. I would urge people to listen to Thursday's episode of Today in Focus, which looks at this in real detail. When asked about energy, he squarely blamed Europe for pushing up prices in energy markets and refused at all to take responsibility for what the Iran war has done to the global economy, to markets, and that people are already really feeling at the petrol pump and elsewhere. And the US There is this fragile ceasefire, but he is going onto the international stage to Islamabad, where he will be taking part in these ceasefire talks with a very, very difficult task ahead of him to restore the reputation of the U.S. right.

Betsy Reed (11:09)

Yeah. I mean, I think that is a difficult task. I think it really strains credulity that it's Europe's responsibility for the rise in energy costs. I don't know who really believes that. I mean, I do think that there are, like, a growing number of Americans are concerned because, you know, we're seeing gas prices above $4 and, you know, it's, it's very clear that that is being driven by the war. I mean, you can just see it in the volatility, the fluctuation of the prices in response to whatever, you know, random social media posts Trump decides to make about the war. And so it seems to me a very different difficult argument for J.D. vance to make. I think he just really has set up Europe as his foil in many ways and is truly allying himself and the Trump administration with Orban and what he represents in terms of the sort of strongman politics, the particular type of attack on liberal institutions and specifically the media. And the way that the Trump administration has gone about attacking the media through its very activist chair of the fcc, Brendan Carr, is really, it feels to me, a direct emulation of some of what Orban modeled.

Lucy Hoff (12:40)

And Vance very much cozying up to this great outlier within the European Union who causes the Union itself so much difficulty when it comes to making decisions on things like Ukraine. And just lastly, Betsy, I mean, US Politics can feel utterly bemusing and often very depressing from this vantage point. But we were all buoyed by the inauguration of Zoran Mamdani as mayor of New York at the start of this year, that election victory in November, and that extraordinary viral speech Trump expected to do badly in the midterms. The Iran war likely to have some of kind impact on that. Could, can you leave us with any message of hope for what might come for the rest of 2026?

Betsy Reed (13:25)

Yeah, I think there is real hope. I mean, I think Mamdani, you know, his election was remarkable. And I think the way he's governed, which has been very, you know, down to brass tacks, like focused on shoveling snow and filling potholes and, you know, making New York a more livable place and also a more affordable place. And he's gotten, you know, through most of his signature initiative around childcare, making child care affordable. So, I mean, I think he's really been a brilliant politician. I mean, there have been some bumps along the way, but he is, you know, he's, he's, he, he also has figured out how to manage Trump in this bizarre way. They have a relationship and, and we haven't seen in New York the same kinds of attacks that we saw in, in Minneapolis, which were, you know, obviously just devastating for the city, but also a pretty big political disaster for Trump. And we're seeing them kind of backtrack on, on the more theatrical cruelty of the, the mass deportation push in terms of the midterms. I think Democrats are cautiously hopeful about their chances in the House. The polling is showing them with a solid five point advantage going into that and which will be enough to flip the control of the chamber. The Senate is looking more iffy. But if the House flips, I think I, I do think you're going to see a real shift to the whole tone and dynamic of US Politics, you know, because Trump will be on the back foot. There will be, you know, some calls for impeachment. I don't know how far they'll go with that. But there will be, you know, investigations. There'll be a focus on his corruption. I mean, corruption, I think, is a really interesting point. And just to tie back to the Orban analogy, I think it's really interesting that Orban's opponents have, have focused so much on that as he's enriched himself. What's happening to everyone else in the country. The same theme, I think, is going to be very resonant for Americans because one thing, amidst all of the chaos of the Trump administration so far, it's managed to deflect attention from the extreme corruption that we've seen and the incredible enrichment of his family. So I think, think putting that back in the conversation and also with a new Congress potentially you know, focusing on that, I think that we're going to see a very different, you know, story emerging about what's going on in America.

Lucy Hoff (15:57)

Yeah. Some accountability and some scrutiny. That is music to my ears. Betsy, thank you so much for your time.

Betsy Reed (16:03)

My pleasure.

Lucy Hoff (16:05)

That's it for today. My huge thanks again to Betsy Reed for joining us, editor of Guardian Us do keep up with her team's reporting over@the guardian.com and also have a listen to the episodes that we mentioned during our conversation. This week's episode of Politics Weekly America with Jonathan Friedland, who's looking at whether and how Trump could be forced out of office. And I'd also recommend yesterday's episode of Today in Focus, which is a primer ahead of this weekend's crucial elections in Hungary. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Latest, the new evening edition of Today in Focus. Today in focus. We'll be back in your feeds as usual on Monday morning. The latest will be back on Monday night. Have a lovely weekend. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. It was produced by Bryony Moore. The senior producer was Ryan Ramgobin and the lead producer was Zoe Hitch.

Betsy Reed (16:58)

This is the Guardian.

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