What teenagers really see on their phones

Summary

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Today in Focus: "What Teenagers Really See on Their Phones"

Date: March 12, 2026
Host: Helen Pidd
Key Guests: Abby (15, from South England), Josh Sargent (16, Cambridgeshire)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the digital lives of teenagers in 2026, revealing the types of content they encounter daily on their smartphones—especially the prevalence of misogyny, toxic masculinity, and unattainable beauty standards. Through candid discussions with two teenagers, Abby and Josh, the podcast exposes how harmful online cultures shape their self-perceptions, relationships, and understanding of gender. The episode paints a vivid picture of these contrasting online realities, aiming to help adults grasp what teens are really seeing and feeling in their virtual worlds.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Everyday Exposure to Misogyny & Harmful Content

[01:03]–[02:41]

• Helen sits with Abby, who shares a recent Instagram post and its comments, laden with misogynistic undertones and shaming of female sexuality.
• Abby explains contemporary slang, e.g., "crack" means "to have sex with," and discusses how women are often blamed or shamed regardless of context.
• Abby reads disturbing comments from videos discussing sexual assault, highlighting how victim-blaming and derision are widely normalized and upvoted online.

Abby: "The top comment with over 100,000 likes is 'who was your victim?' Which is just terrible." [02:49]

2. Early Social Media Experiences & Self-Esteem

[04:42]–[06:49]

• Abby describes getting her first smartphone at age 11, noting it was common among her peers and easy to bypass supposed age restrictions.
• She recounts how exposure to highly-edited beauty content on TikTok quickly led to body image issues and unhealthy comparison.

Abby: "Before I had social media, I really never thought about what I looked like... But then after I downloaded it, I did definitely start to compare myself." [05:45]

3. Encountering Misogyny for the First Time

[06:53]–[08:04]

• Abby discusses her early encounters with sexualized commentary on innocuous videos and the emotional toll it took, leading to internalized self-hatred and distrust of boys and men.

Abby: "They dominated the comment section. It wasn't just one or two disgusting men, it was so many... I just felt so sick to my stomach." [07:13]

4. The Influence of Snapchat & Peer Pressure

[08:38]–[10:13]

• Abby recalls widespread requests for nude images among young teens on Snapchat, casual expectations for sexual exchange, and the advent of AI-generated nude images USING other girls' social media photos.

5. Boys, Pressure & the Manosphere

[10:54]–[15:37]

• Josh Sargent recounts how boys are often inadvertently drawn toward toxic online spaces—not by misogynistic intent, but through motivational and business content that quickly turns into exposure to influencers like Andrew Tate.
• Such content feeds into a rigid hierarchy—promoting "alpha" (dominant) and "beta" (submissive) male tropes, building resentment against women, and setting unrealistic masculine ideals.

Josh Sargent: "For me, it was sort of what could be seen as rather innocent, unsuspecting business content, fitness content. And that was my sort of entry point." [10:54]
Andrew Tate (clip): "You're not tired, you're just undisciplined... Every second you stay this way, the man you were born to be dies a little more." [11:38]

6. Male & Female Beauty Standards: Looksmaxxing and ‘Mewing’

[15:53]–[18:33]

• Josh introduces "looksmaxxing"—the idea that men should relentlessly pursue beauty standards (chiseled jawline, muscularity), sometimes via bizarre internet trends like "mewing" (pressing the tongue up to the roof of the mouth to change facial structure).
• He shares stories of friends sleeping without pillows to supposedly enhance their face, pointing out the parallel pressures boys now face alongside girls.

Josh Sargent: "There's definitely a crisis in male physical standards." [17:49]

• Abby adds that girls face contradictory standards—expected to have curves and be thin, possess certain features, and endure objectification regardless.

7. Toxic Language: 'Females', 'Bop', and Modern Slut-Shaming

[21:24]–[24:35]

• Abby explains that terms like "females" (used derogatorily) and "bop" (an acronym for "been overpassed," meaning a promiscuous girl) have moved from online to offline language, contributing to casual slut-shaming and the reinforcement of old double standards.

Abby: "Boys are not called males... It kind of equates them to an animal..." [21:52]
Abby: "Bop... is just a girl who they decide is like whorish, who has slept with a lot of men... But it is used for every girl on like any post." [22:27]

8. Double Standards and the Impact on Relationships

[24:41]–[26:41]

• The discussion highlights how boys who share unsolicited explicit images simultaneously shame girls for sexual activity or even perceived sexuality—revealing deep-rooted hypocrisy.
• The "ideal girl" in manosphere spaces is painted as obedient, submissive, and above all, a virgin. Purity culture persists, with terms like "body count" weaponized as measures of a girl's worth.

Josh Sargent: "A male going around and like sleeping around in a way is seen as sort of like impressive. And then online that's sort of described for women as being like a sort of impurity, like immoral." [26:23]

9. The Lingering Effects: Trust, Sexuality, and Alienation

[26:41]–[27:35]

• Abby explains that these online environments make her, as a bisexual teen, more comfortable with the idea of dating girls than boys, pointing to the deep alienation fostered by normalized online misogyny—even when she knows not all boys endorse it.

Abby: "I just find it very hard to connect with boys now... They're like constantly fed this stream of incredibly misogynistic content." [26:44]

10. Why Boys are Drawn to This Content

[27:50]–[28:30]

• Josh provides a nuanced view: such content appeals to boys' need for certainty and control in an uncertain world, and the promise of success offers comfort, even as the messaging becomes toxic.

Josh Sargent: "When I was surrounded by content that essentially promised certainty... That gives young men a very large sense of control." [27:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Abby [02:22]: “‘Only untouched women deserve flowers…’ which is disgusting. Only untouched women deserve flowers, love, yeah. Stop valuing women. 2026 with 18,000 likes. Stop valuing women. Yeah.”
• Abby [07:13]: “They dominated the comment section. It wasn’t just one or two disgusting men, it was so many... I just felt so sick to my stomach.”
• Josh Sargent [10:54]: “Young boys and men are never going online onto a social media feed thinking, ‘okay, today I want to be a misogynist’. ...There are many entry points into the manosphere.”
• Andrew Tate (clip) [11:38]: “You’re not tired, you’re just undisciplined... The man you were born to be dies a little more.”
• Helen Pidd [24:34]: “It’s always derogatory and it applies to girls but not boys. Yeah. I’ve never seen a boy called a bop.”
• Abby [26:44]: “I just find it very hard to connect with boys now... They’re like constantly fed this stream of incredibly misogynistic content...”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:03–02:41 | Abby walks through a misogynistic Instagram post & comments | | 04:42–05:45 | Abby on getting a smartphone at age 11, first experiences on TikTok | | 06:53–08:04 | Abby’s first experience of sexual harassment in social media comments | | 08:38–10:13 | The culture of Snapchat: unsolicited nude requests, AI fake nudes | | 10:54–12:03 | Josh’s entry into the manosphere: business/fitness content converting to toxic influences | | 14:22–15:37 | How the manosphere frames women’s roles and rigid male/female hierarchies | | 15:53–18:33 | “Looksmaxxing,” beauty standards, and the pressure on boys and girls | | 21:24–24:35 | ‘Females,’ 'Bop', and language of misogyny crossing into real life | | 26:41–27:35 | Abby on difficulty trusting boys, effect on her sexuality and relationships | | 27:50–28:30 | Josh: Why ‘certain’ toxic content appeals to young men |

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Conclusion

This episode offers a powerful, unfiltered look at the realities teenagers face online—misogyny, toxic masculinity, impossible standards, and the way this culture affects their inner lives and relationships. Abby and Josh’s honesty allows listeners to appreciate the insidiousness of these online trends, their pervasiveness, and the challenges parents and society must understand to support a healthier teenage experience.

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Transcript

[Guardian Announcer]

This is the Guardian.

[Helen Pitt]

Today what it's like being a teenager online in 2026.

[Adam Grant]

Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of ted's podcast Rethinking with Adam Grant. Let me share with you why smart finance leaders turn to Bill. They know that clarity isn't just helpful, it's strategic. As the intelligent finance platform, Bill uses AI to automate the busy work for nearly half a million businesses so they can focus on intentional growth, eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com proven terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

[Abby]

Hang on, I'll turn my brightness up.

[Helen Pitt]

I'm in the bright and airy kitchen of a house in the south of England and 15 year old Abby is showing me her phone and in particular a post on Instagram that came up in her feed. What is it a picture of?

[Abby]

So it's like a video of a car with a huge sort of basket of flowers on it. So obviously the flowers are being delivered to a girl. And the caption is all this to a girl who let another guy crack for free, by the way.

[Helen Pitt]

All this to a girl who let another guy crack for free. Right? Translate. Translate for us.

[Abby]

Okay, so crack means to have sex with. The way it works is that men do the cracking and women are cracked. The moral of the story is that the man who's giving the flowers is like getting played essentially by the girl receiving them because she's making him pay for sex, whereas another man got it for free.

[Helen Pitt]

Okay, and let's look at some of the comments underneath here.

[Abby]

So the top comment with 42,000 likes is one man's five year relationship is another man's one night stand. So essentially, yeah, saying that one man has to wait five years for sex while another man gets it in one night. The second top comment is only untouched women deserve this. Untouched meaning virgin woman.

[Helen Pitt]

Okay.

[Abby]

Which is disgusting. Only untouched women deserve flowers. Flowers. Love. Yeah. Stop valuing women. 2026 with 18,000 likes. Stop valuing women. Yeah.

[Helen Pitt]

Abby tries to avoid this content, actively following women she admires and looks up to, but the misogyny always finds her.

[Abby]

I get quite a lot of like, feminist videos and so I got this video of a woman who was talking about her sexual assault. The very top comment with over 100,000 likes is who was your victim? Which is just terrible. Do you want me to read some more? Yeah. Must have happened in the dark. Now imagine how your victim felt. Did you force him? Who's the unlucky guy? Brother was starving. Ignore the positive comments. Bro picked an easy target. Nobody gonna believe her. Bro had to choose either this or execution. Who lost the bet? Meant that dude was down bad. Nobody crapped.

[Helen Pitt]

It's hard to listen to, isn't it? But this is what teenagers see online every single day, from the moment they wake up to when they go to bed at night, and for hour upon hour in between. But do they want it to be this way? From the Guardian, I'm Helen Pitt. Today in focus, two teenagers, two smartphones, and two very different online realities.

[Abby]

Repeat something.

[Helen Pitt]

But no, I mean, there's nothing you need to do.

[Abby]

You've got your mic here, so you're going to hold.

[Helen Pitt]

Helen can show you how she holds house as if you're at karaoke, kind of in like this. Anyone who has a teenager in their life will know just how closely they guard their phones. But I'm here in Abby's kitchen because she's decided she wants adults to know what she's confronted with every time she opens up social media. She recently wrote about it for the Guardian in a piece that shocked even her own parents. Today, her warm and friendly mum welcomes me into the house, makes us a cup of tea and then leaves us to it. So can you start by telling me, when did you first get a smartphone?

[Abby]

I think I was about 11 years old maybe, which is quite young, but obviously all my friends had one and I begged my parents, so, yeah, about 11, I think.

[Helen Pitt]

How many restrictions, if any, did your parents put on what you could use it for and how often you could use it?

[Abby]

I'll be honest, my parents really didn't put that many restrictions on my phone. I mean, I had to, like, ask to download something, but they let me get TikTok and they didn't really put a screen time on my phone, but I think it's because most of my friends were the same. And so my parents talked to their parents and they just kind of let me.

[Helen Pitt]

Are you supposed to be 13 to be on TikTok?

[Abby]

Yes.

[Helen Pitt]

Okay, so how did you get around that?

[Abby]

They don't check your age. I mean, obviously, like, with every app they make you put in your birthday, but I just made up a random year. So, yeah, it's very easy to join whatever age you are. And a lot of users on TikTok are actually very young. 10, 11, 12.

[Helen Pitt]

And talk me through the kind of things that you were Seeing at first, when you were scrolling on TikTok, I

[Abby]

think first it was quite normal stuff, just like relatable videos, funny videos, popular topics like makeup, fashion, lifestyle. Although already, even at 11, I was seeing videos of very beautiful girls who I assume were probably very highly edited. I do remember, like, very early on, at 11, when I was first scrolling through TikTok and seeing these girls feeling negative about myself because of them. That was around the age where I first, like actually stood in front of the mirror looking at myself, looking at my features, thinking, oh, my nose is too big or oh, like my cheekbones aren't showing enough. Something like that. Yes. Yeah, it's really sad. Obviously I feel quite sad for my younger self. I was far too young to sort of comprehend that it wasn't realistic at all, that they were highly edited. So I did think that I should look like that. Before I had social media, I really never thought about what I looked like. I just tied my hair in a ponytail, like glanced in the mirror, didn't care, didn't think about it. But then after I downloaded it, I did definitely start to compare myself and think about what I looked like.

[Helen Pitt]

Abby tells me about the first time she encountered misogyny online.

[Abby]

I think I was about 11 or 12. I was very young, it was like very early into having TikTok. And I was scrolling and I saw this video of a woman who was exercising. I think she was doing some kind of tutorial, just showing off an exercise, squats or yoga, something like that. It was very, very normal. She was fully covered, nothing wrong with the video. And I clicked on the comments. Every single comment I saw, it was from a man or a boy. And it was just these disgusting comments about her body, sexualising her, saying very explicit things, pointing out, like, her private parts, calling her like a whore and asking for it. They dominated the comment section. It wasn't just one or two disgusting men, it was so many of them. It was at night and I just felt so sick to my stomach. I felt absolutely terrible. And I think that moment really kind of cemented something in me. I just. I felt hatred for myself, my body, and I also felt hatred for the men and boys who are saying this. And as an extension, all men and boys,

[Helen Pitt]

We keep hearing about an explosion of toxic masculinity that is driving boys and girls apart from and sending their relationships back into the dark ages. A recent survey for King's College London found that more than 30% of Gen Z men think that women should obey their husbands. 24% think women should, quote, not appear too independent or self sufficient. A lot of these ideas circulate on Snapchat, which is used by almost half of children aged 3 to 17. According to Ofcom, Abby used to have Snapchat but she deleted it when she realised it was making her unhappy.

[Abby]

The main issue with Snapchat is just kind of how it works with meeting boys and dating. The way you would meet boys on there is, I don't know, a random boy would text you, or maybe you'd text them, you'd add each other and immediately the first question always asked would be, what do you look like? You'd have to send a photo. They'd send a photo back. They'd probably say, wow, you're fit or something. And also I did get asked if I sent nudes quite a few times, which is common. It happens to all my friends. That's the other big issue with Snapchat. It's very much like physical.

[Helen Pitt]

And you're 13, employees are asking you.

[Abby]

13 or 14, roughly. It was usually boys my age, but it would literally be. They text you and immediately they'd ask if you sent. Obviously I never sent any nudes, but yeah.

[Helen Pitt]

And have you ever had unsolicited pictures from boys?

[Abby]

I have. I don't. I have had some unsolicited pictures. I don't know if it's necessarily boys. It could be men. Although I'm sure it is boys too. But what are the pictures of? Well, obviously like their private parts. Actually, I've had it. Okay. But like, I've talked to some of my friends, apparently they get sent loads. Actually, there's this one awful thing that happened a few weeks ago that I heard about from my friend. A girl in another school, her boyfriend made an AI nude photo of her best friend. He found a photo of her Instagram and then put it through some AI service and made it nude.

[Helen Pitt]

I can't go over how casually Abby discusses what are, let's be clear, crimes. It is illegal to send unsolicited naked photos to an adult, let alone a child. So. So where are boys getting these ideas? I go to meet 16 year old Josh, a GCSE student from Cambridgeshire who has thought a lot about why boys are drawn to toxic masculinity online. He's now building a profile as a campaigner. Like Abby, he got his first smartphone before he started secondary school and he says that watching what started off as motivational content ended up pushing him towards the manosphere.

[Josh Sargent]

I think it's important to remember that in general Young boys and men are never going online onto a social media feed thinking, okay, today I want to be a misogynist, right? There are many entry points into the manosphere. For me, it was sort of what could be seen as rather innocent, unsuspecting business content, fitness content. And that was my sort of entry point. I think it was around 20 to 2023, where influencers like Andrew Tate, what we'd now call manosphere influences, were on the rise and their target demographic was always young men. I don't think I could open TikTok. Well, at least I don't remember a time of opening TikTok and then not seeing his face within about 10 seconds.

[Andrew Tate (voice in clips)]

You're not tired, you're just undisciplined. You're not lost, you're just surrounded by cowards who've lied to you your entire life and deep down you know it. You've been playing weak, you've been living soft, and every second you stay this way, the man you were born to be dies a little more. So ask yourself, how much longer are you going to let your potential rot in silence?

[Helen Pitt]

Most men, the videos Josh was watching showed a version of so called peak masculinity.

[Josh Sargent]

Like supercars, you know, yachts, big muscular men in suits surrounded by women in Dubai.

[Andrew Tate (voice in clips)]

Take it from me, a billionaire with Paganis and Bugattis and Jeskos and penthouses in the sky and homes all around the world and a yacht and a private jet.

[Josh Sargent]

The second you have lots of lions as well, that's a big thing.

[Helen Pitt]

Lions.

[Josh Sargent]

Lions, yeah, I know this sounds weird. Lions and wolves. A lot of the, like evolutionary like biology about wolves, like the whole pack, leader of the pack, alpha beta sort of thing gets wildly misconstrued and like projected onto humans. It gets applied to sort of make implications about like, you know, societal structure and like what's called the Matrix and like oppression inside of society.

[Andrew Tate (voice in clips)]

You need to find a way to some degree to escape the Matrix. And when I talk about the Matrix, it primarily applies to men. Because men are the backbone of the slave force. We always have it and always will be. And unfortunately now, if you're a law abiding man inside the Matrix, your future and the life that is laid out for you is nothing but depressing. You're going to go to school, you're going to get in debt.

[Helen Pitt]

The videos offer Josh a blueprint for a more successful life. More money, more power, the attention of the best looking women. But the image of masculinity they projected was unattainable. Particularly for a teenage boy, how did it make you feel?

[Josh Sargent]

It's very much framed as a. If you are not meeting those sort of standards that they're portraying, then you have failed and that's entirely your fault. You're weak, broke, lazy. So like the men that are meeting these standards that they're sort of like portraying and pushing out are referred to as like alpha males. And they're sort of frames like the leaders in society, the ones with the, the ones with the success, the one, the ones that sort of can access relationships and women and then you have the beta males below them and they're sort of framed as like the slaves to society, the ones that aren't as successful with women. So it's very hierarchical in nature and there's very much a feeling there that if you are not meeting the standards they're portraying then you are at the bottom of the hierarchy.

[Helen Pitt]

Let's talk about how girls and women were talked about by these men.

[Josh Sargent]

I'd say the messaging I came across was that men and women had very different roles in society. Women were almost designed in nature to be submissive to men. That as a man it was your role to lead and provide, that you have to be dominant in a way.

[Andrew Tate (voice in clips)]

Number one type of man that a woman doesn't cheat on. The only way that you have the confidence to walk down the street, not put up with a woman's bullshit, not put up with most guys bullshit. And the biggest thing that dominant men do, and this is what is not talked about, that women respect the most dominant men, respect and value their own time.

[Josh Sargent]

There's concepts like the 8020 rule which is that 80% of women are only attracted to the top 20% of men. So if you're not meeting the standards that places you in the top 20% then you're not going to be accessing relationships. But there's also very much a framing of like, you know, women are only attracted to rich, successful, muscular men. That is the standard. If you're not meeting that then you're not going to be successful with women. So it's not even necessarily a case of like outright misogyny. It's also resentment that gets built up because you're being constantly told that women will only see you if you're like meeting specific standards.

[Helen Pitt]

Did you think as a 13 year old boy, oh God, I'm going to have to be really rich and muscly if I've ever got hope of getting a girlfriend?

[Josh Sargent]

I'd say a part of it definitely resonated And I saw part of it is truth. Definitely, yeah.

[Helen Pitt]

Josh says it's not only girls who are under pressure to go to extreme lengths to perfect their appearance.

[Josh Sargent]

There's this sort of concept of looks maxing, to put it broadly, a process of, like, relentlessly optimizing appearance in order to meet specific, like, male beauty standards. So there's a very big famous concept called mewing, and that's essentially like a specific tongue position, like on the roof of your mouth, like over time, is supposed to accentuate your jawline.

[Helen Pitt]

Were you doing it? Did you used to mew?

[Josh Sargent]

I did used to mew, yeah.

[Adam Grant]

Step number one is to smile and stack your teeth just like this. Step number two is to make the end noise at the end of the noise. Wherever your tongue is, that is where your tongue should be.

[Josh Sargent]

If I had to describe the male beauty standards to, say, low body fat percentage face, a very accentuated jawline, very defined features, specific shape of the eye. Aspect of hunter eyes is them being

[Adam Grant]

deep set like this.

[Josh Sargent]

But there can be at least three others. Now, there's no accurate figure on how common these are, but people are interested in them because it can give this intense, piercing gaze that some find attractive. You can see the difference here between. But yeah, I think a lot of the advice would be in itself not really necessarily harmful. It's like the mewing thing. Just like, you know, in general, like skincare and drinking more water. You know, I think there was some level of usefulness there. But then getting to the more extreme end, I vividly remember a few years ago, one of my really close friends telling me that they were going to bed at night sleeping without a pillow because apparently a pillow would, like, mess up facial structure. And this was like a genuine, like, thing that. I know it really does sound absurd and like completely ridiculous.

[Helen Pitt]

Was this a boy?

[Josh Sargent]

It was a boy.

[Helen Pitt]

And do you think that boys are under the same pressure as girls, too, look a certain way?

[Josh Sargent]

I think absolutely. I think the. I think the body image standards for young men are absolutely very prevalent. And I do think that they are under discussed. I wouldn't say that the standards that young women and young men are the same because they're definitely not. And I'm not, you know, fully aware of the standards that young women face. I'm very fortunate to be, you know, sort of outside of that and have not experienced that. But I'd say there's definitely a crisis in male physical standards.

[Helen Pitt]

I ask Abby, too, about the pressure to look a certain way. What's deemed attractive for teenage boys.

[Abby]

Now it's probably in terms of BT standards. Specifically there are the expected ones, like having a small nose or big eyes. There's certainly an expectation to wear a lot of makeup if you are a girl, even when you're quite young. There's also quite a strong emphasis on like having curves and having big breasts. That's something that I see quite a lot. Yeah, I see a lot of comments online about women's breasts. So for example, if a girl posts a video and she either has just naturally bigger breasts or is showing some cleavage, even just a little bit, the comments will be filled with like boys saying holy tits and commenting images about them just making comments on her breasts. That is quite a strong emphasis to be thin as well, which is quite contradictory because they want big breasts and they also want you to be underweight. It's like they don't really see you as a person if you're not attractive. Or at least that's how it feels to me.

[Helen Pitt]

Coming up, why bops Are the New Slags.

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[Adam Grant]

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[Helen Pitt]

You don't need access to A teenager's phone to see that the language of the manosphere has been seeping from the fringes into the mainstream. Look at the comments of any vaguely viral post by a woman and you will see it. And talks about the idea of females that you see online.

[Abby]

So females, it's becoming really common in real life now too. I mean I've heard it just walking through like my local shopping mall, boys saying it. It's really common now.

[Helen Pitt]

Saying what?

[Abby]

What are these females just using the term. And essentially it's used only towards women and girls. Boys are not called males and it's obviously very derogatory. It kind of equates them to an animal because obviously female is not the defining characteristic of a woman or a human. It's how you would describe an animal essentially. Even if men aren't consciously thinking that when they use is meaning that.

[Helen Pitt]

Another word that's really hit the mainstream is bop, B, O P. So like

[Abby]

a common one is calling a woman a bop or a girl a bop actually. So it stands for been overpassed and it essentially is just a girl who they decide is like whorish, who has slept with a lot of men. But it is used for every girl on like any post of a girl, especially if it's kind of a neutral like lip syncing post or if she's attractive or if she's showing any cleavage or anything like that. You'll see the comment as a bop. Yeah, as a bop, which literally stands for being overpassed. They're calling her like essentially sexually used up, which is also what they say when she hasn't done like anything to provoke that kind of comment or language.

[Adam Grant]

Here are three signs that you're dealing with a BoP. And if you don't know what a bop is, go do your research. And that girl that you're with right now that you think she's special, you

[Josh Sargent]

think she's the right one, I hate to break it to you, but she's not.

[Adam Grant]

And if she's doing at least two out of three of these things, bro, especially the last time she's doing that, she's a bop.

[Helen Pitt]

And you hear that in real life as well.

[Abby]

Yeah, it is definitely used by like boys my age. I, I have like a comment here where somebody asked what it meant and then there are replies to it if you wanted me to read that. So a girl asked what does bop mean? And the replies were prostitute or whore being overly passed, which is what it actually stands for. You, a woman is a whole a thought leftover one Night girls, like look in the mirror, you'll find one those kinds of things like chopped female, blown out pussy, just. Yeah. So you can see what bop means when men say it.

[Helen Pitt]

Right.

[Abby]

As from them.

[Helen Pitt]

And do you think that boys your age are actually thinking in this way that a girl who does have sex is. I mean in my day it would be called like a slag or a slut. It sounds like bop is a bit like the modern day equivalent of it.

[Abby]

I mean it's not necessarily like a swear word in the same way, but it is definitely used. Exactly.

[Helen Pitt]

It's always derogatory.

[Abby]

It's always derogatory and it applies to girls but not boys. Yeah. I've never seen a boy called a bop.

[Helen Pitt]

So you've got boys who are sending unsolicited pictures of their penis to girls, presumably because they want to have some sort of sexual activity with these girls,

[Abby]

like a photo back or something.

[Helen Pitt]

Right. But then at the same time these boys are calling any girls who have done anything sexual or even if they haven't bop.

[Abby]

It's a terrible double standard and I think how kind of separate it is with like boys. I think some of them are more being affected by peer pressure. All of their friends are saying it. I don't think those types would actually believe that a girl who has had sex is like worthless. But the other side is men and boys who wholeheartedly do believe that a woman who has had a lot of sex or just any sex who isn't a virgin is worthless.

[Helen Pitt]

So like in medieval times or whatever. So being a virgin is still is prized in the 21st century.

[Abby]

Yeah. So there's this huge emphasis on specifically female virginity.

[Helen Pitt]

I asked Josh about this. Just wonder what you make of how sort of the ideal girls are described online by these influencers.

[Josh Sargent]

Obedient, submissive, and I'm talking inside the manuscript space now.

[Andrew Tate (voice in clips)]

I do not need you. If you're going to come and you're going to be in my life, you're going to obey me absolutely and blindly. So the best female I could find is a female.

[Josh Sargent]

Also not with a pass. I think there's very much a sort of like purity culture references like body count, you know, like number of people you've slept with. If you have a high body count, if you've been passed around, then you're like your intrinsic value is worth less. And there's very much a double standard in that a male going around and like sleeping around in a way is seen as sort of like impressive. Right.

[Helen Pitt]

Like badge of honor.

[Josh Sargent]

Like a badge of honor, like a sort of almost like a power thing. And then online that's sort of described for women as being like a sort of impurity, like immoral sort of thing.

[Helen Pitt]

Do you think it puts you off getting into relationships at this point in your life?

[Abby]

Yeah, definitely. It really does. And one thing about me is that I'm like bisexual. And so when I think about having relationships with girls compared to how I think about them with boys, I obviously feel a lot more positive towards a relationship with a girl, even though it shouldn't be like that. I just find it very hard to connect with boys now. And it's not that they themselves are like terrible people or anything like that, but it's just that like online, because obviously social media is such a big part of teenagers lives nowadays. They're like constantly fed this stream of incredibly misogynistic content and are constantly encouraged and peer pressure to make horrible jokes about girls and to see them as objects and to see their value as their body and their attractiveness. And so even if a boy isn't like a bad person or anything like that, obviously you are affected by seeing all of this content.

[Helen Pitt]

I'm intrigued to hear what drew Josh into this world that he now considers so toxic. You know, you talked about how. How consuming a lot of this content did make you feel inadequate, but I wonder if it also made you feel good in any way.

[Josh Sargent]

I think it did, yeah. And I think it still does now to a lot of young men in that we live in a world that's becoming increasingly uncertain. So that's. Will I be able to follow that traditional path of go to university, get a good job, raise a family. Like, is that still an option? So when I was surrounded by content that essentially promised certainty, right? It was very much of a, if you follow these steps, you will be wealthy, you will be successful, you will be able to like, live the life that you want to in an uncertain world. I think that gives young men a very large sense of control.

[Helen Pitt]

That was Josh Sargent. My huge thanks to him and also to Abby. Both of them were so thoughtful and honest and open with us and I am really grateful if you appreciated this episode. And of course, I hope that you did. Perhaps you'd consider leaving us a review. We always enjoy hearing what you think about the show and it also helped other people to find us. And that is all for today. This episode was produced by Elena Biggs and Sunda Sabdi and presented by me, Helen Pitt. Sound design was by Brian McNamara and the executive producers were Sammy Kent and Humma Khalili. We'll be back in your feeds later today with the latest.

[Adam Grant]

This is the Guardian.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

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[Abby]

Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road.

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[Abby]

Work.

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