Owen Myers (2:34)

I knew you were different the moment you were born. You let your light shine into the world.

Noshi Nikbal (2:43)

But there is another story that they'd like you to forget. The multiple devastating allegations of child sexual abuse made against Jackson over decades.

Owen Myers (2:51)

Thank you. We have more now on Michael Jackson. The latest on the investigation into allegations,

Noshi Nikbal (2:55)

molestation and how that drip feed of stories changed the way he was seen forever. But not for everyone. No. I've been an advocate for that man for as long as I can remember. I've looked into the facts for years. I can give dates, court dates, everything. I'm quite intense about that.

Owen Myers (3:14)

It doesn't worry me because he was about his art.

Noshi Nikbal (3:17)

He wanted to be perceived for his art, not for his life.

Owen Myers (3:20)

So. So that's. I'm going in with that.

Noshi Nikbal (3:24)

But can you really separate the Michael Jackson who gave us Thriller from the Michael Jackson who admitted to sharing his bed with young boys? From the Guardian, I'm Noshi Neqbal to Dane Focus, the King of Pop and the battle for his legacy. Owen Myers, welcome to Today in Focus.

Owen Myers (3:48)

Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

Noshi Nikbal (3:49)

So you're the deputy arts editor for Garden Us and you've written this really deep dive into the story behind the making of the Michael Jackson biopic. First of all, how long has it been in the works and what was its original premise?

Owen Myers (4:04)

Yeah, absolutely. So the producer, Graham King has had the rights for a while. He was coming out of the success of Bohemian Rhapsody, the extremely commercially successful biopica Freddie Mercury. But a lot of times it's kind of seemed like it's a beleaguered or if not cursed production. The shooting actually finished and the estate dug out a certain legal clause to show that certain depictions in the film of an early 90s abuse case weren't allowed to be shown.

Lanre Bakare (4:37)

We had a legal issue.

Owen Myers (4:38)

We found out after we had finished shooting the film that the estate didn't

Noshi Nikbal (4:42)

realize at the time.

Owen Myers (4:43)

So it was a little bit of shock to both of us. I think it's actually been a bursting disguise, to be honest.

Lanre Bakare (4:49)

This is a really strong.

Noshi Nikbal (4:52)

So this is because of a legal settlement with the family of Jordan Chandler, who was one of the children who accused Michael Jackson of sexual abuse. And there was a clause in that settlement that prohibited any mention of Chandler in any future films.

Owen Myers (5:07)

Absolutely. So the film went through some very expensive reshoots that the estate funded, apparently around 10 to 15 million. So what's finally made it to the screen is quite a different version of the script that was originally planned, which was going to end in the early 90s. And it will end just after Thriller and just before Bad and seeing Michael Jackson at the peak of his fame.

Noshi Nikbal (5:33)

And so as you said, it was originally slated to be released last year and it's had quite the journey with the major reshoots and at least one family member, Paris Jackson, heir to Michael Jackson's estate, claiming that it was sugar coated and containing a number of quote, full blown lies. Like the narrative is being controlled and there's a lot of inaccuracy and there's a lot of just full blown lies. And at the end of the day, like, oh, and how has the film been marketed and how has it been received by the entertainment industry?

Owen Myers (6:03)

Well, I think that the film would and the studio Lionsgate would quite like you to forget that there's any dissenting voices. There's been a full scale marketing assault. There are flash mobs on the street of New York. There was a pop up gallery to celebrate Jackson's costumes in SoHo, New York and all around the world there's been influencer screenings, context.

Noshi Nikbal (6:25)

I was very fortunate enough to have

Owen Myers (6:27)

been invited to an advanced screening of Michael the Movie. I showed him my little Billie Jean costume and just simply had the best night of my life. So this is kind of before the rest of the world gets to see the movie in the hope that that will be a nice trickle of early buzz for the movie.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (6:42)

See the goat.

Owen Myers (6:43)

He is the goat. Like that wasn't like a film.

Lanre Bakare (6:48)

I felt like I was watching a concert.

Owen Myers (6:50)

And I feel like a really interesting part of the whole campaign for me is just how softball like the promotions has been around this film. Jennifer Jackson, welcome to the Tonight Show. It's amazing.

Lanre Bakare (7:01)

I love the energy.

Owen Myers (7:02)

Thank you for coming on. I can't wait to talk about Michael

Lanre Bakare (7:05)

and what a great performance.

Owen Myers (7:06)

You would think this is an opportunity for some of the cast, some of the respected cast like Colman, Domingo, Nia Long to really sit down with mass media news outlets and engage. You'd expect a lot of glossy magazine covers.

Noshi Nikbal (7:18)

I know this kind of happened serendipitously but.

Owen Myers (7:21)

But you worked really hard for this part. Yeah, it was a process that I really had to earn and it really proved to. Instead we've got these quite softball lifestyle publications that have featured the cast and director.

Lanre Bakare (7:37)

It is incredible how you recreated these scenes. Which one was the hardest?

Owen Myers (7:43)

Thank you. Which one was the hardest? I would say probably Billie Jean and

Noshi Nikbal (7:50)

that's probably because the Michael Jackson estate was so heavily involved in this production and since his death they have been the ones ensuring his back catalogue remains profitable.

Owen Myers (8:02)

The executors of the estate are two lawyers named John McLean and John Branca. They took over the Jackson estate after he died.

Noshi Nikbal (8:11)

It's just unbelievable. Michael Jackson sells more tickets dead than most artists do alive.

Owen Myers (8:18)

That is absolutely true. Worldwide box office. Now part of why John Branker specifically is a notable figure is he's been Jackson's attorney since the 80s. He shepherded Jackson to buy the Beatles catalog in the 1980s which was a huge source of his income. Him and Jackson had a rocky relationship but John Branker came back into the picture around this Is it the Jackson documentary released shortly after his death, showing Jackson?

Noshi Nikbal (8:48)

This is the concert film, right?

Owen Myers (8:50)

This was the concert film. So he was scheduled to do this run of, I believe, 50 shows at the O2 in London. And that was going to be his big return to the stage. I'll be performing the songs my fans want to hear. This is it. I mean, this is really it. This is the final. This is the final curtain call. He died two weeks before those concerts were scheduled to start. But this is it was shepherded by John Branca into a very timely release in cinemas for a public that is still grieving Jackson and very much cashing in.

Noshi Nikbal (9:32)

Right.

Owen Myers (9:33)

Very much taking the opportunity of some goodwill towards Jackson at that time. Man in the Mirror had shot back to number two on the UK charts following his death. This is it went on to gross over $200 million at the worldwide box office. And it's actually the biggest grossing documentary of all time.

Noshi Nikbal (9:57)

Lanro Bakare, welcome back to Today in Focus.

Lanre Bakare (9:59)

Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Noshi Nikbal (10:02)

So you are the Guardian's arts and culture correspondent. So first of all, can you try to explain just how huge Michael Jackson was at his peak?

Lanre Bakare (10:12)

Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier. It's kind of. It's hard to explain it. I think if I was talking to, I don't know, a 10 year old or a 13 year old today trying to explain how big Michael Jackson is. It's like take someone like Taylor Swift, take Beyonce, put them together, times them by like 10, and you're still absolutely nowhere near what Michael Jackson was at his peak. Which if we're taking his peak to be like late 80s, going into the 90s, like he dominated the 80s. He was the biggest thing going.

Owen Myers (10:42)

When the stadium doors finally opened, it

Lanre Bakare (10:44)

was impossible not to be overwhelmed watching

Owen Myers (10:46)

the fans storm onto the field to get the coveted spot at the very

Lanre Bakare (10:50)

front world tours that made him millions of dollars.

Owen Myers (10:52)

People here have waited so long for

Lanre Bakare (10:54)

the show that the anticipation level creates massive stereo a thriller selling 80 million copies. The winner is Michael Jackson, fastest selling album ever. And also he like changed what pop star could be. He kind of emerged through Motown. You've got the kind of classic R B kind of Setup.

Owen Myers (11:14)

The Jackson 5 are here tonight. They're without a doubt one of the most popular singing groups in the entire world.

Lanre Bakare (11:19)

With. With his brothers. I'm Jermaine.

Owen Myers (11:20)

Jermaine. I'm Tito. Marlon. I'm Randy. Randy. Jackie. Jackie. And I'm Michael. You're Michael.

Lanre Bakare (11:27)

And then he Becomes a solo act who not only can dance, not only can he sing, he actually is smart enough to realize that the future is music videos. And he creates Thriller, which is just completely changes the culture. When it came to the standard that you had to set for a music video, got these amazing dance sequences. It's kind of like a. It was like a 12 minute film, basically.

Noshi Nikbal (11:47)

Yeah.

Owen Myers (11:48)

Are you all right?

Lanre Bakare (11:52)

That MTV initially didn't want to play because they didn't play black music. But they had to play it because Michael Jackson just completely transcended any kind of genre limitations.

Noshi Nikbal (12:00)

It's worth reminding the kids that I think every party that you ever had with your cousins after Thriller came out for about 10 years, you'd all be playing and recreating Thriller.

Owen Myers (12:09)

Maddie.

Lanre Bakare (12:11)

No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. I mean, I remember being at like Nigerian gatherings and if Michael Jackson came on, everybody would get into it. Like it'd be a multi generation dance contest happening. People absolutely bloody love Michael Jackson because it wasn't just one or two great songs, it was albums where every single track was incredible over a ten year period.

Noshi Nikbal (12:34)

Well, what did he mean to you? I mean, we're both children of the 80s. We both, I guess, have pretty strong and somewhat fond memories of Michael Jackson. But for you personally, Lanray, what did Michael Jackson mean in your life?

Lanre Bakare (12:45)

I absolutely loved him. I thought he was incredible. I mean, I'll start to remember my earliest memory of him. And it was probably bad. And that coming out in 1987 and the music video with him and Wesley Snipes.

Owen Myers (12:59)

Nothing with me. Stop it. Are you buried?

Lanre Bakare (13:01)

Stop it.

Noshi Nikbal (13:02)

Leave me alone.

Lanre Bakare (13:03)

Stop. I mean, looking back on it, it's kind of ridiculous. He's playing this kind of tough guy, but he's got like this relaxed hair, super light skin. He's got this kind of strange biker outfit and he's kind of threatening these dudes, but it's like he's got this incredibly effeminate voice.

Noshi Nikbal (13:18)

Let's see who's bad, man. Come on, come on, let's go.

Lanre Bakare (13:21)

And then kind of going back to the earlier records, we've got the Jackson 5 where they create some of the best bubblegum pop ever.

Noshi Nikbal (13:27)

That little Michael Jackson with that just adult range, just dazzling to watch.

Lanre Bakare (13:33)

Yeah, I was watching that. I was watching him play I want you back yesterday. I found it really emotional watching it because there's the innocence there. And this is always the thing. Michael Jackson as a kid, the images as a child is so innocent and he's so talented and you kind of know what's coming next.

Noshi Nikbal (14:07)

Owen, your piece opens with a really shocking detail that I just still can't wrap my head around about the story of Jordan Chandler, who in 1993 was the first boy to publicly accuse Michael Jackson of sexually abusing him. What happened and how was it dealt with at the time?

Owen Myers (14:25)

Well, it was absolutely an explosive case at the time. Jordan Chandler was a boy that was 12 years old and had accompanied Michael Jackson on his dangerous world tour, particularly on the Asian leg of the tour. He was always by Michael's side. Michael made no secret of it. He was in many photographs. Jordan Chandler, as a 12, 13 year old, would come to Neverland to stay. Jackson would go and stay at Chandler's house. There was a real trust that Jordan Chandler's family put into Jackson. And they would have sleepovers. They spent, I believe, 30 consecutive nights sleeping over together. A lot of people would raise their eyebrows at that, knowing what we know now. But Jackson, you know, this was not a rich family. You know, imagine the biggest star in the world shows up at your door. Your logic might take a back seat for a minute if you're a little dazzled. So Jackson allegedly played on families that were not particularly well adjusted. He knew the people that he could maybe like, bend the rules with, hence the sleepovers.

Noshi Nikbal (15:33)

So people who are a bit more vulnerable, which is in the grooming playbook,

Owen Myers (15:38)

so to speak, that lines up with a lot of what, you know, the grooming playbook typically is. And Jordan Chandler did come Forward to the LAPD in late 1993. And as part of the questioning, the LAPD asked Jordan Chandler to draw by hand Jackson genitalia. It's well known that Jacktiff had a skin condition that discolored parts of his body. So what Jordan Chandler did was he drew a drawing of the private parts that had blotches, specifically on the underside of the penis and other distinctive markings in the area. And, you know, the kind of knowledge that you would only know one way. Right. These drawings were put in a sealed envelope. And simultaneously, Jackson was submitted to a strip search at the Neverland Ranch to take those intimate pictures. And this is well documented. This is, this is a fact, is that the pictures matched up. And this is confirmed by multiple detectives from the LAPD at the time. Jackson called the experience the most humiliating ordeal of his life. And he always forcefully denied the allegations.

Noshi Nikbal (16:50)

He also settled out of court for $25 million with the Chandler family.

Owen Myers (16:54)

He did, yeah. And that came in the week or two after this strip search session. So this was something that Jackson wanted to be resolved very quickly. And critics have commented that perhaps the amount of money was too much for anyone to say no to, especially for not a rich family. So Jackson didn't have to submit to a criminal trial in that case.

Noshi Nikbal (17:20)

It's sort of mind boggling reading that stuff back as an adult. I mean, there was this total suspension of belief, I guess. I mean, looking back at it now. And of course there were then other accusations. You know, there was even a trial. Owen, can you briefly run me through a timeline of the allegations made against Michael Jackson?

Owen Myers (17:39)

So after the Jordan Chandler trial in 1993 is the Martin Bashir documentary, which was in 2003. I love climbing trees. I think it's my favorite things. Having water balloon fights and climbing trees. I think those two are my favorite. That raised a lot more questions about Jackson again because it really showed Jackson at the Neverland Ranch with children, including a young boy whose name is Gavin. When Gavin was there, he talked about the fact that he shares your bedroom.

Noshi Nikbal (18:08)

Yes.

Owen Myers (18:10)

Can you understand why people would worry about that? Because they're ignorant. Saying that the most loving thing you can do is share a bed with children. That's a beautiful thing. That's, that's not a worrying thing. Why should they be worrying? Who's the criminal? Who's. Who's Jack the Ripper in the room? Neverland had a petting zoo. It had a fairground, it had popcorn machines. Jackson loved to be surrounded by children. He insisted that he had more in common with children than adults. And they shared a lot of interest. By 2005, that boy Gavin had come forward and sued Jackson. There followed this surreal moment. The singer clambered aboard his waiting limousine to wave and blow kisses to his fans. So in 2005 brought a three month long criminal trial for Jackson. This was the only time in which the child abuse allegations were heard in front of a jury. Bizarre, certainly. Deluded, possibly, but a criminal we'll have

Noshi Nikbal (19:08)

to wait and see.

Owen Myers (19:09)

And many people came and argued for Jackson's defense, including the comedian Chris Tucker. Macaulay Culkin came to Jackson's defense in that trial. We have to cover it. So let's ask about it. What's the relationship that you had with Michael Jackson? Had or have? I mean, had? Both. Whatever. Let's go with had. Listen, no, he's just, he's a good friend of mine and he still is. I mean, everything that's going on, I mean, it's unfortunate, it's an unfortunate situation for, for everyone involved.

Noshi Nikbal (19:34)

And he was another child actor who had been in Jackson's orbit for a long time as well. Right?

Owen Myers (19:39)

A long time. I think in the black, black or white video, no secret about that friendship, they would show up on red carpets together. Culkin has always maintained that relationship was very innocent. So he came to Jackson's defense and there it is, all 10 counts not guilty on all 10 counts. Court did find Jackson innocent and he was exonerated of all charges. Clearly now it's pandemonium out here among the crowd members.

Lanre Bakare (20:06)

They are jubilant inside the courtroom.

Owen Myers (20:10)

We understand from our producer, Michael Jackson dabbed his eyes with Kleenex during the

Lanre Bakare (20:15)

reading of the verdict.

Owen Myers (20:17)

And in death, some new allegations have surfaced since then, most notably in Dan Reed's 2018 documentary Leaving Neverland. And it focused on two boys, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, that again, a similar age to some of the other boys we've been discussing who say they were 12 and 13 when they were abused and assaulted by Jackson as boys.

Lanre Bakare (20:42)

He told me if they ever found

Owen Myers (20:44)

out what we were doing, he and

Lanre Bakare (20:47)

I would go to jail for the rest of our lives.

Owen Myers (20:51)

Secrets will eat you up. You feel so alone. It's a really grueling documentary. A lot of the details that emerge, even without some of the context of the allegation, you know, kind of stomach churning in themselves, you know, Jackson had a bedroom with a hallway leading up to it that was covered with cameras. It was booby trapped with alarms so that an alarm would sound if anyone approaches. So his bedroom was completely private and sealed off. In Jackson's bedroom, there were suitcases of erotic material. Forensic investigators subsequently found fingerprints of the boys on such materials. The Robson and Safechuck case is actually yet to go to trial. It's scheduled for later this year. And then just this February, new allegations broke by four siblings, the Cassio siblings. I spoke with their lawyer, Howard King, who represents them, and told me all about how they allege a decade of sustained abuse. They allege child trafficking, they allege assault, and they allege grooming in a level of detail which is really shocking and harrowing to read to review those reports. That case will likely be going to trial next year, but in the meantime, the estate would very much like you to focus on the biopic and celebration of his life. So we have these sort of dueling parallel narratives at the moment.

Noshi Nikbal (22:30)

Coming up, why fans still can't get enough of Michael Jackson.

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Owen Myers (23:17)

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Noshi Nikbal (23:40)

Lanwe it's deeply complicated, isn't it? Because reading Margot Jefferson and Wesley Morris on Michael Jackson, you know, titans of cultural criticism, even they admit to a level of denial about who he really was. Perhaps because of this kind of defensive crouch of wanting to believe in black artists and wanting to protect them from the worst of how the industry treats them. You know, building them up, profiting from them and then putting them down and spitting them out. What's your take?

Lanre Bakare (24:09)

I think so. I think that's true. And I think there is a protective instinct, especially from a lot of black cultural critics, to protect black artists because of the way that black people in general have been treated historically, especially in America. But I think with Michael Jackson, there's something else going on and it's, it's his biography, it's his story, right? So he emerges as a five year old who's pushed to the front of this group by his father, Joe Jackson, who's a failed musician himself from Gary, Indiana. This kind of place in the, basically in the middle of nowhere, very industrial. And Joe Jackson's this kind of like centrifugal force in the middle of the family which drives his children to become these child stars.

Owen Myers (24:46)

I saw the talent there, but when Michael got involved, I really saw the real talent there because he was doing things, spinning and dancing, all that stuff.

Lanre Bakare (24:57)

He basically wills them into the Motown office with Diana Ross. They do an audition and they're successful and their career takes off. They go into this incredible machine and off they go. You know, Michael Jackson doesn't have a childhood. We know that there's accusations of him being sexually assaulted by people within the music industry. There's a few allegations that are flying around.

Noshi Nikbal (25:17)

And there's also, there's lots about his father beating him. I think that's gonna be in the film very much so. I mean, like he, you know, there's interviews where he talks about they'd be practicing their dance steps and if they were A step out. Wrong. Joe Jackson had a belt in his hand. Like that was the literal whip that he used to control his kids.

Lanre Bakare (25:33)

Well, yeah, he would whip them. I was reading a thing the other day, Michael Jackson saying he would like apply oil to them so that he could get more kind purchase on, on this kind of like physical assault that he was putting his children through. So like that, I think that is built into the way that people think about Jackson and in some ways kind of move those kind of really dark allegations out the way and say, well actually there's an explanation for this. The other thing as well is he was like this kind of Peter Pan style character. So that somehow explained the fact that he wanted to hang out with children. Like he hadn't had a childhood. So therefore it kind of makes sense that he wanted to hang out with these kids. Even though when you think about it again, it's like, why was this full grown man in his mid-30s hanging out with, you know, 10 year olds sleeping the same bed as him? You know, it never, it never smelled right. But with, with Jackson, because of the biography, I think a lot of people justified in their own heads and like rationalized it and said, well, it kind of makes sense so we'll kind of allow it. So I think there is, there's a long history of black cultural critics defending not just Michael Jackson, but many black figures who are accused of, of heinous crimes. So Bill Cosby, R. Kelly and Michael Jackson. And often that argument is rooted in this idea that look, historically African Americans have been treated horrendously. You've obviously got the 400 years of slavery, you've got Jim Crow and then you've got racist practices leading up to today that continue that we all know about. So when someone who is a huge figure within the black community is then shot at, people say, well, hang on a minute, yeah, Michael Jackson might have done some of these things. We don't know they're accusations or allegations, but we know for sure the way that black Americans have been treated by the state, let alone the music industry.

Noshi Nikbal (27:08)

So let's rally round.

Lanre Bakare (27:10)

Yeah, so why do we have to attack him as well? We're not, we're not going to join in. We're not going to do that. And I think there is, there is a weird dynamic there where African Americans are often asked to defend Michael Jackson or come out and denounce him. When the reason that Michael Jackson is Michael Jackson is because white America embraced him. The reason he sold 80 million copies of Thriller isn't Because African Americans bought it. It's because white people bought it as well. And everybody was making absolutely loads of money out of him. That's the reason Michael Jackson became Michael Jackson. But when it comes to the allegations and the dark stuff, all of a sudden it's a black problem. And why aren't you coming out and decrying him?

Noshi Nikbal (27:46)

Lanwray is potentially going to be the biggest film of the year. It's built to be this huge blockbuster. People are rushing to see it. Do you think it's wholesale cultural amnesia? Is it excellent PR or do people simply not care about allegations of paedophilia when a pop star is as big as he was?

Lanre Bakare (28:06)

I think there's a. There's a really important kind of timing issue at the. At the heart of it. Michael, the biopic was supposed to come out earlier, and that has been delayed for multiple reasons. And I think the gap in time from 2019 and those allegations to now has been really useful for the Michael Jackson estate. And in that intervening period, they've made a lot of money out of multiple musicals, merchandise sales. Like, they've built up this kind of war chest. And then Michael is the. Is the kind of crown jewel in that. In that kind of new cultural awakening around Michael Jackson. So there's been this period of time where the allegations been made. And now what you start to see in a really interesting way is like people kind of saying, well, I'm quite. I'm skeptical about some of the allegations. I'm skeptical about some of the accusations. And introducing the element of doubt. Antoine Farquhar, the. The director, has said that in a recent interview with the New Yorker. And he's done that on the. On the campaign trail. He's not come out and said, I don't believe in any allegations. But he has said that people want to make money out of Michael Jackson. People do some nasty things in order

Noshi Nikbal (29:04)

to make money, as in claiming that people would have made stuff up in order to get paid.

Lanre Bakare (29:08)

Yeah, not saying that directly, but kind of alluding to that and like pushing people in that direction, which I think is interesting. And I think that gap is enough for people to say, all right, well, there's. There's. There's a benefit of the doubt here. It's Michael Jackson. This is one of the biggest films of the year. He's this huge cultural figure. It's got all the songs in it because they work with the estate. I want to go watch this. There is clearly a market for biopics of these huge. These huge musical stars, the sanitized ones at that.

Noshi Nikbal (29:34)

I mean, they're not even like warts and all, but people want it anyway.

Lanre Bakare (29:37)

Yeah, they do. I mean, I think it's funny when I was thinking about O.J. simpson and the way that he. There was that moment maybe 10 years ago with you had the kind of FX, kind of soapy drama where you had like David Schwimmer and Cuba Goody Jr. But at the same time you had O.J. made in America. This really serious, like seven part or eight part, I can't remember, but like eight hours or whatever it was of footage about RJ Simpson. And it wasn't just about OJ Simpson. It was about America and what he represented and why. That court case was about race, it was about sex, it was about all kinds of different things. But we're not getting that on Michael Jackson. For people like me who like Michael Jackson, love the music but have this massive asterisk because of the accusations, I am not that excited about this biopic because I know exactly what it's going to show me. And it's a story up to the mid-80s where everything's kind of all right and Michael Jackson is the hero. The villain is Joe Jackson, but we all know that there's this second part of his life, or third acts really, where he's the villain. And we all know that, but we're not gonna see it.

Noshi Nikbal (30:36)

Lanray, thank you so much for your time.

Lanre Bakare (30:38)

Thanks for having me.

Noshi Nikbal (30:42)

That was arts and culture correspondent Lanray Bakare and the Guardian US's deputy arts editor, Owen Myers. Thanks to them, you can read Owen's piece about the making of the biopic as well as Peter Bradshaw's review of the film@theguardian.com and that's it for today. This episode was presented by me, Noshi Nikbal. It was produced by Alex Atak, Eli Blogg and James Tyndale. Sound design was by Ross Burns and the executive producer was Hummer Khalidi. Lucy Hoff will be back in your feeds this afternoon with the latest. This is the Guardian.

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Noshi Nikbal (32:08)

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