Kanye West (quotes) (3:47)

Okay, okay.

Noshi Nikbal (3:47)

Before we get to the cancellation, just summarize the bonkers ness of the last few days.

Lanre Bakare (3:52)

On the 30th, he was announced as the headliner. He immediately received backlash. So Juris Group said he should not be performing in London, he should be performing in the UK because of his previous anti Semitic remarks. Sadiq Khan said it wasn't a good idea. Then Ed Davy came out, the leader of Liberal Democrats. The Australian government has earlier banned him from going to Australia for anti Semitic hate speech.

Noshi Nikbal (4:16)

And we should too.

Lanre Bakare (4:18)

Since then we've had different cabinet ministers come out. So you have Bridget Phillipson.

Noshi Nikbal (4:21)

The comments that he has made in the past are completely unacceptable and absolutely disgusting. I don't think he should be performing at the.

Lanre Bakare (4:28)

At the music festival where Streetin came out really strongly. He released a song called Heil Hitler. He plastered it across T shirts. Anti Semitism is on the rise and it can be deadly. The idea that you platform someone after this pattern of behavior I think is appalling. Keir Starmer also got involved. So this became this huge political football which transcended culture. It's not really a cultural story. It's about Labour and about their position on anti Semitism and the fact that they've got someone who is described as a neo Nazi coming to perform in the uk and what do you do about it? And labor obviously came out and shut it down essentially.

Noshi Nikbal (5:07)

I mean, at one point he did have a visa, right? And that was rescinded by the Home Office, as he said. But, you know, in the midst of all this pressure piling up, west then issues this statement in which he offered to meet and listen to members of the UK's Jewish community and insisted, in his words, that he wanted to come to London and I quote, to present a show of change, bring unity, peace and love through music. How did that go down?

Lanre Bakare (5:33)

Badly, Incredibly badly. Because I think a lot of his critics and people who are paying attention to the story understand that he'd been on a campaign of four or five years of anti Semitic trolling, essentially embracing neo Nazi imagery, pushing out far right conspiracy theories about Jewish people. And this was just a consistent type of behavior. It wasn't one or two outbursts that we've seen before from Kanye West. This seemed to be an ideology that he completely embraced. So when he releases this statement, which kind of reads like something Michael Jackson would have said from a stage in the 1990s about wanting to bring peace to the world world, it rang incredibly hollow for a lot of people. And also the timing of it looks really cynical. It takes out a full page apology in the Wall Street Journal and apologizes for his behavior. I think the issue with that for a lot of people is the timing of it. So that's released in January and then you look at what's coming up for Kanye west and he's got a new album coming out called Bully. He's going to play two shows in la and then he had the wireless show obviously planned and coming up. So if you look at that from the outside, you can see that as an incredibly cynical move to curry favour and I suppose remove some of the negative feeling about him and enable him to release the album, go and tour it and continue with his life as a creative person.

Noshi Nikbal (6:45)

Slash make loads of money, Slash make

Lanre Bakare (6:48)

him a lot of money and everyone else a lot of money as well.

Noshi Nikbal (6:51)

So to summarize, west has his visa rescinded. He is effectively banned from the uk, Wireless festival is cancelled. It seems as big a deal as it gets for an artist if the government of the day in one of their biggest markets is stepping in and saying, no way, we simply won't allow you in. Lanri, what's the precedent here? Who else has the Home Office blocked?

Lanre Bakare (7:10)

There's a long list of people who've been banned from coming to the uk. There's actually a load of rappers. So you have Lil Wayne, who's banned, you have Snoop Dogg, who's banned and then was rescinded. Martha Stewart as well, actually. Right, okay, she was banned, but she

Noshi Nikbal (7:23)

had a criminal record though.

Lanre Bakare (7:24)

Exactly. So the thing with those people is all those artists had criminal records in the us. The person who's kind of most fits with the kind of US model of a ban is Tyler the creator, who was banned in 2015.

Noshi Nikbal (7:36)

Right.

Lanre Bakare (7:37)

By then Home Secretary Theresa May. And that was over lyrical content. Anyone who knows Tyler the creator's work, especially Wolfgang early on would often use homophobic language, is queer himself, but he would use homophobic language, very violent sexual imagery as well, which groups said was glorifying rape culture. So he was banned by the home secretary in 2015. And the reaction to that was slightly different because there were people who were saying, hang on a minute, this is about artistic expression. He's not being sincere in the things he's saying here. Young people have always pushed the boundaries about what is acceptable and what is good taste.

Noshi Nikbal (8:11)

And he himself has come on quite a journey since then.

Lanre Bakare (8:14)

Yeah, he has. And yeah, he was allowed back into the country in 2019, and he actually ended up headlining wireless festival.

Noshi Nikbal (8:28)

Lanwe. Before we get to how west got to this point, I do want to rewind a little bit to the beginning of his story and that first decade of his career in which he is regularly hailed as a genius and releases for many some of the greatest albums of all time. Can you tell me about that ascent and how he became such an important fixture in the culture?

Lanre Bakare (8:48)

Yeah. So he emerges in Chicago actually, when he was still in school, as a producer on the local hip hop scene. There he is mentored by a guy called no ID who'd worked with some of the Rockefeller artists. And through that connection, he starts to produce tracks for people like Jermaine Dupri, Foxy Brown, and ultimately Jay Z. And he produces a couple of tracks for Jay Z on his probably most important iconic album, which is the blueprint. So he produces the Takeover, which is the Naz Diss track. Kids Out There, there was a Diss war before Drake and Kendrick, which was, I think, even better. So he produces this track for him, which is incredible. And then he also does Izzo Hovers. And I think those two tracks kind of like sum up Kanye West's ability and his skills. I mean, if Jay Z was playing a concert, they'd be two of the biggest tracks I'd play. So he establishes himself as this incredible producer. Then he tries to make the very difficult leap from producer to artist, and he receives quite a lot of pushback. People are like, yeah, you're a producer and you're great. Kind of stick to that, because that's what you do. But then he starts creating these tracks which are just undeniably incredible. So there's through The Wire, which is a great track, but then you get stuff like Jesus Walks.

Noshi Nikbal (9:58)

I mean, that whole era. Carnage, dropout, late registration. I actually did spend an afternoon with him between those two albums in Manchester, and it still remains. I have to say, I was a baby in the early noughties. But, like, one of the most interesting interviews I ever did. Like, his mother was present. His mother, Donda, was an African American studies professor. You know, he comes from this sort of middle class background. They have really interesting, immensely close relationship. You know, conversation was about linguistics, about the N word, about misogyny, all sorts of things. And I don't know, even at the time, he made it very clear that he was obsessed with pushing boundaries. Like, not wanting to conform and wanting to, like, do things differently to everyone else.

Lanre Bakare (10:44)

Yeah. I think when he came out, like, the style of Kanye was. I don't know if you remember, but he used to, like, wear polo shirts.

Noshi Nikbal (10:50)

Yes.

Lanre Bakare (10:51)

Which was like, a big deal in hip hop culture.

Noshi Nikbal (10:53)

Dorky backpacks.

Lanre Bakare (10:54)

Yeah, backpacks. And then he had those kind of, like, new rave glasses with, like, little slants in it. And I remember just thinking, who is this guy? Because, like you say, he didn't conform to the stereotype of what you would look like as a rapper. It was white tees, gold chains, big bag of jeans and Jordans.

Noshi Nikbal (11:08)

Because at the time, rap, it was bling versus backpacks. It was either like 50 Cent going on about consumerism or it was Tyler Kweli. And he actually did marry the two. He was either being socially conscious or materialistic, but he did both.

Lanre Bakare (11:19)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, Gold Digger, right, Was like his massive tune at university. Like, when that got played, people got absolutely bananas. And, yeah, he was always interested in the aesthetic. I mean, I think he shot the video for that as well. He always seemed interested in doing more than just being a rapper who, you know, rapped on incredible tracks and was, like, popular. He kind of went into the world of fashion, architecture, design. I did so many things to kind of expand what a hip hop artist could be. Kind of transcended hip hop. And I think about him wanting to push boundaries. I kind of feel like with Kanye, that was kind of baked into the premise. Like, if you were a Kanye fan, you knew he was going to say some fairly outlandish stuff. I mean, early on, the stuff he was saying was things that he could get behind. So, for example, in 2005, there's a very famous moment in a live charity appeal during Hurricane Katrina where he stood next to Mike Myers from Austin Powers and They're just going through the script, and he just turns to the camera

Kanye West (quotes) (12:11)

and says, george Bush doesn't care about black people.

Lanre Bakare (12:15)

Mike Myers is like, what the hell have you just said? Like, who is this guy? And I feel like that was kind of an announcement on a global scale of, like, this is someone who's gonna do things differently. And at that point, I was 100% behind it because black people were dying in their hundreds in Louisiana, and the government wasn't doing anything about it. So it was really exciting, actually, his emergence. He was someone different, and that was a much more innocent time, I think. And I think Donda, his mother, was around for. For all of that. She died in 2007. And then things start to shift and change.

Noshi Nikbal (12:44)

Well, let's talk about that, because, you know, we've said he's unpredictable. Has an unwillingness to conform contributed perhaps to the best but also the absolute worst moments of his career? And there does seem to be a steady unravelling. Lanray, can you tell me more about that?

Lanre Bakare (12:58)

In 2009, his behavior starts to become a bit more problematic. At the VMA Awards. He storms on the stage, takes a microphone away from Taylor Swift, who just won the Moon man for best video.

Kanye West (quotes) (13:09)

I'm really happy for you. You finish. But Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time. One of the best videos of all time.

Lanre Bakare (13:19)

After that, Barack Obama calls him a jackass.

Kanye West (quotes) (13:22)

Nice person. She's getting her award. What's he doing?

Progressive Insurance Announcer (13:24)

Why would he do that?

Lanre Bakare (13:25)

He's a jackass. No, no. And it's this kind of like, egotistical, megalomaniac behavior where previously, you know, if Donda was there, would he have acted like that? Potentially not.

Kanye West (quotes) (13:38)

Right?

Lanre Bakare (13:38)

I think the guy.

Noshi Nikbal (13:39)

She was the checks and balances on him.

Lanre Bakare (13:40)

Exactly. The guardrails have kind of been removed. Then 2014, he marries into the Kardashian family.

Noshi Nikbal (13:47)

Hey, good morning to you guys. Well, yes, it is official. You can now start calling them Mr. And Mrs. Kanye West. After tying the knot in a romantic and intimate setting at a fortress. 16th century fortress overlooking Florence, of course.

Lanre Bakare (13:59)

And he starts to become this reality TV figure who exists in this very strange world between kind of high art and culture and also the kind of trashiest TV you could possibly find. Yeah, I mean, he has said before, like, what I do is performance art. And at this time, I kind of thought, maybe this is all a big kind of thing, and he's gonna just, like, get nominated for the Turner Prize and it'll all be fine. Then in 2016, things really shift gears.

Kanye West (quotes) (14:29)

What people don't know Kanye. Everybody knows, right? Does the world know Kanye?

Lanre Bakare (14:35)

So he endorses Trump, and he starts going around with a MAGA hat, ends up going to the White House, and seems to just fully embrace that kind of MAGA world, which is a major departure for him.

Kanye West (quotes) (14:45)

I want to put you in that spot. No, I'm standing in that spot. I love this guy right here. Let me give this guy a hug.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (14:53)

I love this guy right here.

Lanre Bakare (14:55)

Yeah, come here. Yes.

Kanye West (quotes) (14:57)

That's really nice.

Noshi Nikbal (14:58)

In 2017, he makes his bipolar polar diagnosis public. You know, he calls it a superpower. He's open to how he thinks it fuels his creative process. He also admits swerving, taking his medication, and as he said, by this point, he's met with Trump. He's wearing the MAGA hat. But then there's this moment where it just tips, and to me, at least, it feels dangerous. Lanray, can you tell me about his interview with TMZ in 2018?

Lanre Bakare (15:26)

Yeah. So TMZ is obviously a celebrity gossip site. He turns up at their studios two

Kanye West (quotes) (15:32)

days after I got off of opioids, and I was addicted to opioids.

Lanre Bakare (15:35)

Two days, and gives this interview. I mean, I think I might remember. He's just kind of walking around the studio.

Kanye West (quotes) (15:41)

I'm taking two. Hey, everyone, listen to this, please. Two days before, I was in the

Lanre Bakare (15:46)

hospital pontificating on lots of different stuff, gesticulating, and just, like, mouthing off, essentially. And he goes in this stream of consciousness thing where he starts talking about black people and slavery, which was a theme in his music. He had a track called New Slaves, but at that point, he was talking about slavery as, like, a concept that you could apply to being an artist. So, like, I'm enslaved by a bit like Prince, right?

Noshi Nikbal (16:07)

Yeah, by the record company.

Lanre Bakare (16:08)

Exactly. But then he kind of shifts and says, 400 years of slavery. It kind of seems like slavery was a choice.

Kanye West (quotes) (16:14)

When you hear about slavery for 400 years. For 400 years, that sound like a choice. Like, you was there for 400 years, and it's all of y', all, you know, like.

Lanre Bakare (16:25)

Which is like, no, Kanye, that's not. And you know that's not true. If you know who his mother is. You know, someone who was a civil rights activist, he knows that's not true. So he's doing this edgelord thing of pushing. He was actually confronted by one of the TMZ journalists.

Noshi Nikbal (16:39)

Right.

Lanre Bakare (16:39)

Which is. Which is an incredible exchange.

Kanye West (quotes) (16:42)

We have to deal with the marginalization that has come from the 400 years of slavery that you said for our people was a choice. And frankly, I'm disappointed. I'm appalled. And brother, I am unbelievably hurt by the fact that you have morphed into something to me that's not real. Yay. Be yay. I'm off it forever.

Lanre Bakare (17:07)

And he kind of backs down, which is interesting because I think that shows that he doesn't really, at that point, perhaps doesn't really believe in those things. He just knows this is a controversial thing to say.

Noshi Nikbal (17:17)

You say that, but it's also. It's not a one off because in 2022, Paris Fashion Week, he sends models down a catwalk wearing long sleeve white Lives Matter tees, laundry. What's the blowback at this point and how does it affect his career?

Lanre Bakare (17:30)

Yeah, I mean, I think 2022 is the year where everything implodes. He just goes into self destruct mode. He's banned from going to the Grammys because his online behavior is seen as too problematic.

Noshi Nikbal (17:39)

What's he doing at this point?

Lanre Bakare (17:40)

He'd started with some anti Semitic tropes at that point. So he sends a tweet saying that P. Diddy is controlled by Jewish people at the time. I think I kind of vaguely remember that. And just thinking he obviously needs to be taken away from his computer and he needs some sort of help because this is kind of dark. And he carried on with that. The anti seismic behavior is completely disgusting. He actually went on a podcast at one point and said he had a deal with Adidas at this point. His stuff was selling, making millions for them every year. And he was saying, I could say anti Semitic stuff and Adidas drop me.

Kanye West (quotes) (18:13)

The thing about it, me and Adidas is like, I could literally say anti Semitic shit and they can't drop me. I could say anti Semitic things and Adidas can't drop me. Now what?

Lanre Bakare (18:28)

And a month later, they dropped him.

Noshi Nikbal (18:29)

The company calling recent statements by west hateful and dangerous. Adidas had faced pressure to act, and Kanye west bragged that nothing he said could end their partnership. He's now been suspended by Twitter and Instagram and and dropped by his talent agency. And he's lost multiple brand deals.

Lanre Bakare (18:49)

And at that point, this is like mid 2022, sponsors start moving away. Even people who've been working with for years started to back away. So, like Pharrell Williams clips, you know, they've said that they can't work with Kanye west anymore because he'd gone to a place that was just too toxic. It was too Dark. He was saying he was a Nazi. He's selling merch with two Hs on it, which are a reference, direct reference to Heil Hitler. And it starts coming through in the music. So he has a song called Heil Hitler and there's footage of Nick Fuentes basically doing Zeke Geisling to this song, which starts to do the rounds on the Internet. So it's embraced by people on the far right as well, who are seen as almost like a poster boy for their movement. Someone who is so culturally relevant and even he's getting involved in it.

Kanye West (quotes) (19:30)

I thought, that's right, you're not Hitler,

Progressive Insurance Announcer (19:32)

you're not a Nazi.

Kanye West (quotes) (19:34)

You don't deserve to be called that and demonized.

Lanre Bakare (19:36)

Well,

Kanye West (quotes) (19:39)

I see good things about Hitler also. The Jew I love.

Lanre Bakare (19:42)

You know, this is. It's so disgusting. Disgusting and aborted at anyone who understands the history of the Holocaust.

Noshi Nikbal (19:47)

Which he denied.

Lanre Bakare (19:48)

Which he also denied. Exactly. I mean, the thing is, we. Before I kind of talked about him in the context of someone like Tyler, the creator. But actually I think you need to think of him as like someone like David Irving who's like a Holocaust denier, someone who is anti Semitic and completely a pariah really. And that's the position he, he was in for a lot of people, which makes the wireless decision, it's just so confounding. You're like, how did you ever think that was gonna work in this country?

Noshi Nikbal (20:13)

In January of this year, west took out this full page ad in the Wall Street Journal in which he apologized to and he addressed it, those I hurt. So in it he tries to make amends to the black community. He says, sorry for letting them down, quote, I love us. He also insisted, I am not a Nazi, I'm not an anti Semite, I love Jewish people. But you know, by then he had committed himself to a years long sustained campaign of anti Semitism. And this wasn't even the first grand apology that he'd had to make for it.

Lanre Bakare (20:40)

Well, he apologized for it in 2023 where he released a statement on social media, written in Hebrew, in which he apologized for. For his behavior. And then when he was criticized, he then rescinded the. The apology and he wrote back on it, which is what numerous Jewish groups refer to in their statements about the performance at wireless. Why should we believe this guy who has a history of saying, oh yeah, I'm really sorry. I'm so sincerely sorry for this thing. And then continues the behavior which, which he did. Throughout 2025, he was still creating songs that were referencing the Nazis. He was talking about how Hitler. So the apologies don't ring true. They ring hollow. And I think that's been a big problem for him when it comes to sign up this mess with wireless.

Noshi Nikbal (21:26)

Coming up, why did Wireless Festival book such a risky headliner?

Progressive Insurance Announcer (21:45)

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Noshi Nikbal (22:10)

Lanry, what do you make of the home officer's decision to rescind West's visa and to ban him?

Lanre Bakare (22:16)

Essentially, I think some people would say it is an overreaction to ban him completely from coming into the country. I think it got to the point with the discussions between wireless who didn't want to back down. Like Melvin Ben, who runs the festival, was on this Today program defending Kanye West.

Noshi Nikbal (22:33)

I want to give people a second chance. And I think Kanye west, yay, as he is now officially known, should be given a second chance and should be, should be.

Lanre Bakare (22:43)

He was saying that the apology was sincere. He was saying that he's known people with mental health issues in the past and unfortunately this is kind of the issue with people with mental health issues, especially bipolar, that they will have these episodes. So we need to understand it. He was calling for people to kind of accept the apology.

Noshi Nikbal (23:00)

His position was interesting though, because I mean, notionally it's sort of empathetic. I mean, he says that forgiveness and giving people a second chance of becoming a lost virtue in this ever increasing divisive world. I would ask people to reflect on their instant comments of disgust at the likelihood of him performing as was mine. But he also did then say that whether he consulted with Jewish groups when he was asked about it, a paraphrase, he said, no, potentially we should have done that. May prove to be a mistake. We consulted with Pepsi, though, the sponsors, and they seemed fine with it.

Lanre Bakare (23:28)

So, I mean, yeah, I mean that statement maybe gives it a bit of an insight into their kind of priorities were slightly in the wrong place and they massively underestimated the strength of feeling on this. I think in Britain at the minute, we're in a moment where a lot of people are aware of how anti Semitism is on the rise of the Manchester attacks. And also Finsbury park is just down the road from the biggest Jewish community in the country who've also been under attack recently. So there's a heightened awareness about anti Semitism. A lot of people feel invested in stopping it spread because we can see it happening either online or in the real world. And the Melvin Penn thing, it just seemed like you've completely misread the room. Like that apology, who looked at that and thought this is 100% sincere? Very few people. And I think if that apology would have been packaged with him going away doing the work, to use a phrase.

Noshi Nikbal (24:19)

Talk to me about that. What would that have looked like? What would Kanye west doing the work have meant?

Lanre Bakare (24:25)

I mean, I think it's important to note that for some people, they will never accept his apology and he will always be a bigot and an anti Semite for the rest of his life. And I think that's fair because he spent four or five years really invested in this ideology, which is incredibly toxic and horrendous. But I think if he was genuine or if he is genuine and he is sincere about wanting to make amends, what could he do? He could go to Auschwitz. He could meet with Jewish groups and try to understand the horrendous actions of the Nazis and really.

Noshi Nikbal (24:50)

And the impact of his words.

Lanre Bakare (24:52)

And the impact of his words. Exactly. And that's what people have done in the past. If you mess up that badly, you go away. Usually you do not wait a couple of months, send out a statement, release a new album, and then get back in people's faces.

Noshi Nikbal (25:04)

Yeah. It has to be said that the ban came just weeks after he sold out massive shows in America where I think about 140,000 people went to see him play in LA. So he probably did think he was untouchable at that point.

Lanre Bakare (25:16)

Yeah. And that is a proof that he is massive. He is huge as a cultural figure. And I have no doubts if the pre sale would have gone on yesterday and we had a sale today, it would have been sold out. It would have been sold out here. And I think that's the thing that, you know, I was reading back through the clips and looking at all the coverage of Kanye, and at certain points people have written for us and for other places about how the court of public opinion in one way saying, oh, this guy's abhorrent, he's horrendous. Yet anytime he does anything, people still listen to it. If you just read the news pieces, like straight, you think this is just like a guy, just a rapper, and it's like, it's not. This is the thing that's kind of missing from the coverage. This is why it's so important in a way, he isn't just anyone else. He's this huge figure within the culture. And yeah, the truth is, I mean, I don't think he'll be able to come back to the UK and perform anytime soon. The fundamental thing for him is can he kind of operate in America? He can't be banned from going there. He's still kind of someone who's adjacent to the MAGA movement. So, like, Trump's not gonna stop him from doing stuff. It's whether or not I think liberal, left leaning people vote with their feet and do not give this guy money.

Noshi Nikbal (26:17)

How do you compare and contrast him with other artists who have said and done racist things? Eric Clapton, Morrissey, even David Bowie, in which case, you know, history and time and legacy sort of erases that sort of memory.

Lanre Bakare (26:33)

Eric Clapton is a really interesting one. So he goes on stage in 1976, he's drunk, he goes on this racist rant which then triggers the Rock Against Racism movement where you have this mass, mass movement of protest and concerts where far left groups try to take control of this cultural conversation and say, we are not for this. This is not something that Britain. He came back and did tears in heaven. You can come back, you can rebrand. I mean, Bowie's a great example because his behavior in a way was quite similar to Kanye's. He comes back to the uk, I think it's for a press tour. He's been living in Berlin, been using a lot of drugs. He's been having problems with psychosis. He comes back and he said, you know what? Britain really needs a strong leader, a fascist leader and does what looks like a Nazi salute. Now he said he was waving, but it looks like a Nazi salute. And he explained that behavior where, you know, because it was a mental health issue, it's to do with drugs. He wasn't in a good place. And I mean, no one's, no one's walking around saying, David Bowie needs to be cancelled. It was understood that this was a moment in his life where he was at a low ebb and he made a mistake. I think the difference with Kanye west is it was such a sustained period of behavior, it makes it harder to forgive. But personally, do I think it's the end of Kanye West? Absolutely nowhere. Kanye west won't come back to the heights that we've seen before, but he's not been at that level when he was at the absolute cutting edge of hip hop and rap for a decade. Will he be booked for Coachella again? Probably not. Will he be booked for Glastonbury again? Probably not. But can he still sell out 70,000 seaters stadiums in America? Absolutely.

Noshi Nikbal (28:04)

Lanray, thank you so much for your time.

Lanre Bakare (28:06)

No problem. Thank you.

Noshi Nikbal (28:11)

That was the Guardian's arts and culture correspondent, Lanre Bacare. My thanks to him. You can follow Lanre's reporting on this story and so much more@theguardian.com and that's everything today. This episode was presented by me, Noshi Nikbal. It was produced by Eleanor Biggs, Tom Glasser and George Francis Lee. Sound design is by Ross Burns. The executive producer was Elizabeth Kassum. We'll be back this afternoon with the latest. This is the Guardian.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (28:54)

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it at progressive. Com, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.