World Cup: how did it all go wrong for England? - The Latest

Summary

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Today in Focus: "World Cup: how did it all go wrong for England?"

Date: July 16, 2026
Host: Annie Kelly
Guest: Jonathan Liu (Guardian columnist & football writer)
Episode Type: ‘The Latest’ (evening edition recap, approx. 10 minutes)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores England’s dramatic exit from the 2026 FIFA World Cup, with a focus on the semi-final defeat to Argentina. Host Annie Kelly discusses post-match reactions and analysis with Guardian football writer Jonathan Liu, delving into tactical decisions, the mentality of the squad, manager Thomas Tuchel’s controversial approach, and the persistent historical tensions between England and Argentina. The conversation alternates between critical debrief and cultural reflection, culminating in Liu’s perspective on England’s future prospects.

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Key Discussion Points & Analysis

1. Immediate Reaction: Disappointment and Analysis of the Defeat

• Tactics and the Tuchel Approach
  • Liu expresses deep disappointment, feeling England were the stronger side and critical gamesmanship handed Argentina, an "inferior" team, the opportunity they needed.

    • “I believed right up until the 85th minute that they had enough… But what happened is… the rot set in a little bit earlier. England were dropping and dropping and dropping far too deep, far too early.” — Jonathan Liu, (01:46)

  • England’s decision to defend their lead rather than push for a second goal allowed Argentina to dictate the tempo, which suited their strengths and, notably, a 39-year-old Lionel Messi.

    • "England willingly acquiesced to the game that Argentina wanted to play. It was a suicide note, right?" — Jonathan Liu, (02:00)

• Responsibility and Criticism of Thomas Tuchel
  • Tuchel’s tactical conservatism and substitutions are identified as key factors in the loss.

    • "Given that he is a coach who was very specifically hired for the job of getting England through these games, it is a failure. If you bring in the guy who’s supposed to win the World Cup and he doesn’t… it’s a fairly open and shut case." — Jonathan Liu, (03:32)

2. Tuchel’s Mentality and Its Impact

• Pragmatism versus Belief
  • Liu criticizes Tuchel not just for pragmatic tactics, but a fundamental lack of belief in the team’s attacking potential.

    • "Tuchel never believed in us… He never believed in our capability to do anything but defensive rear guard our way to victory. That… is going to sting for quite a while. It's like finding out that daddy doesn't love you." — Jonathan Liu, (01:02 & 06:05)

  • Annie Kelly reflects the emotional deflation felt by fans:

    • "So you don't love yourself." — Annie Kelly, (06:34)

    • "Well, exactly. He's the arch pragmatist… but when pragmatic coaches go defensive, it says a lot about their mentality and what they think of the players." — Jonathan Liu, (06:37)

3. Cultural and Political Layers: England vs. Argentina

• Falklands/Malvinas Symbolism
  • The immediate post-match display of the "Las Malvinas son Argentinas" banner by Argentina players amplified the emotional and political charge, linking football rivalry to national identity and unresolved historical wounds.

    • "In terms of where the Malvinas… stands in Argentinian society, this is an open sore, an open wound. It’s there in their consciousness perhaps similar to how the Second World War was in Britain." — Jonathan Liu, (07:36)

  • England’s relative detachment from the issue is contrasted with Argentina’s obsession, with song lyrics and fan culture showing the depth of feeling.

    • "I’d love to see the 26 players in the England squad play one of those geoguess type games and try and pinpoint the Falkland Islands on a map… it does occupy a different space in Argentina than it does here." — Jonathan Liu, (08:28)

• FIFA’s Political Dilemma
  • The hosts muse about whether FIFA will take action against Argentina’s on-field political statement, drawing a parallel with its previous actions concerning the display of poppies.

4. The Evolving England–Argentina Rivalry

• Enduring Enmity
  • This latest clash is seen as perpetuating and possibly intensifying the "Oedipal relationship" (as described by colleague Jonathan Wilson) between the nations.

    • "Every time they play—which is not often these days—absence has not made the heart grow fonder… That doesn’t help things. It does deepen the rivalry. It becomes another chapter in the legend." — Jonathan Liu, (09:40)

5. Looking Forward: England’s Prospects and a Note of Optimism

• Are There Positives?

  • Despite frustration and heartbreak, Liu suggests there’s reason for hope based on England’s improved consistency at major tournaments:

    • "You could almost argue that after decades of being an underachieving tournament team, England are now arguably an overachieving team… Once you put yourself in that situation enough times… eventually you do get over the line." — Jonathan Liu, (10:53)

  • Kelly notes that reaching a semi-final and holding the lead until the 85th minute is a considerable achievement in itself.

    • "And we did make a semi final of the World Cup. That's something to be really happy about as well." — Annie Kelly, (11:31)

• Final Prediction

  • Liu predicts Spain will handle Argentina easily in the final, with a clear edge in squad quality and momentum:

    • "I think Spain will wipe the floor with them… I don’t see this as a classic." — Jonathan Liu, (11:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Tuchel never believed in us. He never believed in our capability to do anything but defensive rear guard our way to victory… It's like finding out that daddy doesn't love you."
  — Jonathan Liu, (01:02, 06:05)
• "Given that he is a coach who was very specifically hired... it is a failure. If you bring in the guy who’s supposed to win the World Cup and he doesn’t… it’s a fairly open and shut case."
  — Jonathan Liu, (03:32)
• "England willingly acquiesced to the game that Argentina wanted to play. It was a suicide note, right?"
  — Jonathan Liu, (02:00)
• "It’s an open sore... Falklands veterans are an incredibly powerful vocal group in society."
  — Jonathan Liu, (07:36)
• "I think Spain will wipe the floor with them... I don’t see this as a classic."
  — Jonathan Liu, (11:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:46] – Jonathan Liu’s initial disappointment and tactical breakdown
• [03:09–03:32] – Full accountability placed on Tuchel; rationale for failure
• [06:05] – Emotional impact of Tuchel's defensive mentality ("daddy doesn't love you")
• [07:36–08:28] – The symbolic and political weight of the Malvinas/Falklands in Argentina
• [09:23] – Perspective on the ongoing rivalry and its "Oedipal" nature
• [10:53] – Case for optimism; England’s “overachieving” phase
• [11:46] – Spain vs. Argentina final prediction

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Summary

This fast-paced, insightful episode delivers a cathartic, in-depth reaction to another heartbreak for England fans. Jonathan Liu offers both tactical and psychological post-mortem, holding manager Thomas Tuchel chiefly responsible for a defeat that felt not inevitable, but chosen through excessive caution. The conversation delves into the deeper cultural antagonism between England and Argentina—flaring anew at this World Cup—while ending with a glimmer of hope for the future of English football.

Transcript

[Annie Kelly]

This is the Guardian.

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[Jonathan Liu]

For England to go into their shell, for Tuchel to, to choose to set England up like that, I find that personally quite devastating.

[Jonathan Liu (continuation or another speaker responding to apology)]

No one knows what would have happened if we made different decisions. I'm responsible for them. I took them. So I take the criticism. That's just the way it is.

[Jonathan Liu]

Tuchel never believed in us. He never in our capability to do anything but defensive rear guard our way to victory. That I think is going to sting for quite a while. It's like finding out that daddy doesn't love you.

[Annie Kelly (Presenter/Host)]

From the Guardians today in Focus, this is the latest with me, Annie Kelly.

[Annie Kelly]

So England have crashed out of the World Cup. We're all very gutted to see them not make their first final in 60 years. Johnny Liu, you are a Guardian columnist and a football writer. I'd hate to bring up the fact that the last time that you were on the latest you predicted an England win in this World Cup. Obviously, sadly you were wrong. So what's your post match analysis? What happened last night?

[Jonathan Liu]

You know, frankly I incredibly disappointed because I believed right up until the 85th minute that they had enough to, that had the players and the, the tactics and the coach to be what I think was a, an inferior Argentina side. But what happened is, you know, a lot of, there will be a lot of emphasis put on Thomas Tuchel's substitutions. I think what happened in the, the rot set in a little bit earlier. England were dropping and dropping and dropping far too deep, far too early. Instead of going for a second goal, they allowed the game to compress. They allowed an Argentina side that doesn't have a huge amount of pace, that doesn' that, that has been through exhausting games in their own progress through the knockout stages to, to do, to play exactly the game they wanted patiently trying to break them down. Lionel Messi, while, you know, the greatest player of all time is 39 years old, a stretched game, a quick game, a game of, of quick decisions and transitions doesn't suit him at all and it doesn't suit a lot of that Argentina side. And England willingly acquiesced to the game that Argentina wanted to Play. It was a suicide note, right?

[Annie Kelly]

Tuchel's fault. Should he carry the camp for this?

[Jonathan Liu]

Yeah, totally. I mean, I think there is a lot to be said for, you know, the English, the mentality, the kind of, the fear of failure that tends to grip players. And Tuchel is by no means the only coach who has seen his side play like this or kind of retreat to these tactics.

[Annie Kelly]

But there was so much expectation, wasn't he, that was so much different and he would bring that, that like will to win.

[Jonathan Liu]

Yes. And, and I think he has much more control over this England squad than certainly Gareth Southgate did at the last three tournaments and in fact many of his predecessors. He is such a micromanager. He has spent the last 18 months going through every single possible detail of exactly how games like this will pan out, thinking not just about the tactics and the spaces, but, and the contingencies, but the mentality, how players react under pressure and how to train them to make the right decisions. Given that, given that he is a coach who was very specifically hired for the job of getting England through these games, it is a failure. There's no other way of. If you bring the guy who's, you bring in the guy who's supposed to win the World cup and he doesn't win the World cup, you know, it's a fairly open and shut case.

[Annie Kelly]

But what, you know, how do you account for that decision? It seemed, you talk about mentality. It did seem like he didn't believe that England could do it when he suddenly kind of filled the fields with defenders. I mean, I'm talking for, as a non football person here, it seemed very much that he bottled it as much as you say, maybe the players did.

[Jonathan Liu]

Yeah, I mean this is, this is, I think why, for a lot of England fans, I think this is why it's so hurtful. It, I think this one stings so much more than France four years ago, maybe even, even Spain two years ago, who were very demonstrably a better side. Argentina are not demonstrably a better side than England. I, I, I will argue that till the, till the cows come home, they have a supreme individual talent and frankly some quite mediocre players around him. And for England to go into their shell, for Tuchel to, to choose, to, to set England up like that, I find that personally quite, quite devastating because you can, you can rationalize a lot of the decisions he took in terms of personnel, in terms of not taking Phil Foden or Cole Palmer to the World cup, you could rationalize a lot of the, the choices he made in defense during the tournament, you could, you can rationalize certainly the rear guard against Mexico where you're a player down against Norway where you know it's, it's incredibly hot, but in an air conditioned stadium in a World cup semi final where you're 1 nil up, you've got the momentum and you've got 11 men on the pitch. I find that, I find that really disappointing that Tuchel still decides to, to, to go to take England into that little defensive crouch. Because what that tells me is that maybe he didn't believe in these players at all. There is so much fervor and optimism and belief out in the country about what these players can do and what this squad can do that they can find that they could finally sort of break this drought. And we thought that he believed in us too. And to find out that he didn't really. Tuchel never believed in us. He never believed in our capability to do anything but, but frown and grimace and shithouse and defensive rear guard. Our way to, to victory against an inferior team that I think is going to sting for quite a while. It's like finding out that daddy doesn't love you.

[Annie Kelly]

Yeah. And so you don't love yourself.

[Jonathan Liu]

Well, exactly. You know, he's, he's the arch pragmatist. He's the, he's always been a pragmatic coach and that was. But pragmatic coaches are not necessarily defensive coaches. When pragmatic coaches go defensive, I think it says a lot about their mentality and what they think of the players they've been given.

[Annie Kelly]

Well, you're clearly, you know, really angry at Tuchel. It was also like a really charged match, wasn't it? There's so much history between the two sides in the build up and you know, you had the Argentinian players very shortly after they'd won on the pitch, all standing behind a big Las Malvinas on Argentinas flag. The Malvinas being the Argentinian word for the Falkland Islands. Obviously, you know, that is a historic beef between England and Argentina after the, the 1982 Falklands War. Downing Streets now waded in and said, we might not have got the World cup, but we do have the Falkland Islands. It all just seems a bit petty. I mean, where is this all going, do you think?

[Jonathan Liu]

Well, it's, I mean in terms of where the Malvenus the movie is, Falklands conflict stands in, in kind of Argentinian society, that's, this is an open sore, it's an open wound. That's been been running for. For four decades. If anything has become deeper and, and more traumatic for them in in recent the Falklands. The Marvinas veterans are an incredibly powerful vocal group in society. Most most towns in Argentina will have a kind of a veterans group. It is, it is there in their consciousness perhaps in a similar way to, to how the Second World War was in Britain.

[Annie Kelly]

It's an, a national obsession when I lived in Argentina and it was just. There is no way anyone is forgetting about this. And it was just so interesting to see the players feel boldly enough about it that they would stand behind that flag shortly after kicking England.

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Right.

[Jonathan Liu]

You know, a lot of the songs the players have been singing reference the Malvinas. The, the, the reference the victims, you know, of that, of that conflict. Whereas you know, I guess if you asked, I'd love to see the, the 26 players in the England squad play one of those geoguess type games and try and pinpoint the, the Falkland Islands on a map and how many of them would would get remotely close to it. So it does occupy a different space in Argentina than it does here. And you know, unveiling that banner, which I think has happened before and they did in a friendly some years ago but, but not on this stage and not to this kind of audience. And FIFA is, is extremely stringent. It's extremely clear about its stance on, on political statements and we, we wait to see if they have the backbone to speak out about it against its, its darling team and its darling player in the same way they did about for example, Poppies.

[Annie Kelly]

Right. And also a kind of. It was a very bad tempered match, wasn't it? So I would assume that this beef between the two teams are not, is not going anywhere. This, the match last night may have just exacerbated that historical kind of wrangling between those two sides. It'll be interesting to see when they next meet again.

[Jonathan Liu]

Yeah, it just adds layers and layers to it. I mean Jonathan Wilson, a colleague of ours calls it an Oedipal relationship that every time they play, which is not often these days, it's not been since 2005 in a friendly, not, not competitively since 2002. And absence has not made the heart grow fonder. Proximity. You know, a lot of these players play in the same, you know, play in the Premier League or play in leagues around Europe. They, they are, they are well acquainted with each other. That, that doesn't help things. It doesn't, it doesn't improve the, the environment when, when it gets to to the World cup. And, and yeah, that it does deepen the rivalry. It becomes another chapter in the legend. And I think I would be surprised if, if Argentina and, and didn't, didn't get an invite to Wembley at some point in the next couple of years.

[Annie Kelly (Presenter/Host)]

Right.

[Jonathan Liu]

I, I think there is too much riding, there was too much fervor and too much, frankly, too much money to be made right out of that rivalry.

[Annie Kelly]

And, and you know, you're obviously feeling pretty gutted. I think everybody is all everyone is talking about today. I just wonder if you could leave us with any feelings of optimism. Like, do you feel that we can be optimistic about this England team? Do you think that there is anything to look forward to?

[Jonathan Liu]

I think so. I mean, we've seen in, in previous tournaments how, how close England have got without necessarily playing that well. You could almost argue that after decades of being an underachieving tournament team, England are now arguably an overachieving team who pretty much expect to get to quarterfinals at a very minimum. Semi. Finals, finals. And once you are, you know, once you put yourself in that position enough times, once you put yourself in that situation, as Pep Guardiola Ola would say, you create these situations for yourself, eventually you do get over the line. I genuinely believe that.

[Annie Kelly (Presenter/Host)]

Yeah.

[Annie Kelly]

And we did make a semi final of the World Cup. That's something to be really happy about as well. Right.

[Jonathan Liu]

And. And led it until the 85th minute. You know that that's not nothing.

[Annie Kelly]

I hate to bring up predictions, but the match on Sunday, Spain v Argentina, who's your money on?

[Jonathan Liu]

I think Spain will wipe the floor with them. I don't necessarily think It'll be the 4 nil that they beat Italy by in the Euro 2012 final. I don't think that team is quite on the 2012 level, but the golf in between them, the superiority in midfield, the superiority physically, defensively, and in terms of the confidence and the momentum that I've taken from the France game, I think that was Argentina's final last night. I don't think that they will try to raise their game. They will compete. I mean, look, my predictions have, as you know, been wrong, but I just don't. I don't see this as a classic.

[Annie Kelly]

Well, Jonny, thank you so much.

[Jonathan Liu]

Oh, cheers.

[Annie Kelly]

And I'm sorry.

[Jonathan Liu]

No, no, it's okay.

[Jonathan Liu (continuation or another speaker responding to apology)]

It's not your fault.

[Annie Kelly (Presenter/Host)]

That's it for today. My huge thanks again to Jonathan Liu. If you haven't already, I really recommend listening to this morning's episode of Today in Focus where Helen Pitt spoke to the friends, colleagues and mentors of Andy Burnham to find out more about the man soon to be our Prime Minister. Thanks for listening to this episode of the latest Today in Focus. We'll be back in your feeds tomorrow morning and the latest will be back tomorrow night. This episode was produced by Annie Levespa. The senior producer was Ryan Ramgobin, the executive producer was Zoe Hitch, and the presenter was me, Annie Kelly.

[Max Rushton]

The World Cup's entering its final stages, and if you want football punditry from a podcast that's been overanalyzing the game for more than 20 years, then join me, Max Rushton and a host of football experts as we keep delivering shows every day until the end of the World Cup. The Guardians World Cup Daily available wherever you get your podcast.

[Annie Kelly]

This is the Guardian.

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