Podcast Summary: "Acontece que no es poco | Doctores tenía la Iglesia, pero doctoras ninguna… Santa Teresa"

Show: Todo Concostrina
Host: Nieves Concostrina (with Carla)
Date: September 27, 2023

Overview

In this episode, Nieves Concostrina, with her signature wit and critical lens, dives into the history of women’s exclusion from recognition in the Catholic Church through the story of Santa Teresa de Jesús (Teresa of Ávila). The focus is on how, despite centuries of male-dominated accolades (the “doctors of the Church”), Santa Teresa was recognized as the first female "doctora" in 1970—after more than 1,500 years. The episode humorously and sharply dismantles the misogynistic legacy of church tradition and society, while highlighting Teresa’s rebelliousness, intellect, and uphill battle against both the Church and her contemporaries.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Women’s Disempowerment in the Church

• Historical context:
  • Carla sets the tone by mentioning that the discrimination against women comes from ancient times, citing the Bible as a source of misogynistic sentiments that have justified women’s secondary status in society and especially within the Church (00:26).
  • Nieves reinforces this, noting the phrase, “Doctores tiene la Iglesia,” and points out that for centuries, all were male—some with dubious merit (01:01).

2. Santa Teresa as the First “Doctora” of the Church

• Delayed recognition:

  • Santa Teresa de Jesús wasn’t recognized as a “doctora” of the Church until 1970 by Pope Paul VI—after the Church had named thirty-three men as doctors, only later allowing three more women (01:01).
  • Nieves: “Hasta 1970, ni caso. Vamos a contar esto de los doctores… algunos incluso de dudosa asistencia, pero eran doctores. Santa Teresa de Jesús fue la primera doctora de la Iglesia.” (01:01)

• Pope Paul VI’s justification:

  • The pope had to dedicate an entire homily to justify allowing a woman to join the rank—reassuring the faithful that this didn’t violate apostolic precepts (03:07).
  • Notable quote:
    • Nieves (about the justification): “Vino a ya sabemos que la mujer [...] no está destinada a tener funciones jerárquicas de magisterio y de ministerio.” (03:11)

3. Saint Paul and Institutionalized Misogyny

• Biblical justification for excluding women:
  • Nieves reads and criticizes “the pretty words of the misogynist Saint Paul” (04:07), quoting from the first letter to the Corinthians:
    • “Las mujeres cállense en las asambleas porque no les toca a ellas hablar, sino vivir sujetas. Si quieren aprender algo, que en casa pregunten a sus maridos.” (04:07)
  • She lampoons Paul’s profound influence in underpinning a culture where women couldn’t participate as clergy or authority figures.

4. Women’s Roles in the Church – The Example of Sor Pascualina

• Behind-the-scenes power but no official recognition:
  • References the powerful role of Sor Pascualina alongside Pope Pio XII, nicknamed “la Papisa,” who wielded immense behind-the-scenes influence despite the Church’s official stance on women (04:48).
  • Nieves jokes that if Teresa had been present during this era, she’d have “burned the Vatican down with everyone inside” (05:18).

5. Teresa's Personality and Struggles

• Constantly scrutinized and censored:

  • Teresa was closely watched by the Inquisition, had her works censored, and was accused by both men and women (especially for her efforts in reforming the Carmelite order) (06:18).
  • Carla highlights the surprise that, given all the opposition, Teresa was even recognized as a saint and later as a doctor of the Church (06:08).

• Feminist voice:

  • Censored passage from Teresa’s “Camino de perfección”:
    • “Basta, Señor, que nos tiene el mundo acorraladas. Que no hagamos cosa que valga nada por vos en público ni osemos hablar algunas verdades que lloramos en secreto. [...] como son hijos de Adán y todos varones, no hay virtud de mujer que no tengan por sospechosa.” (07:16)

6. Teresa’s Health, “Éxtasis”, and Mystique

• Diagnosis from a modern perspective:
  • Nieves points out Teresa likely suffered epileptic seizures, interpreted by the Church as divine “éxtasis,” which contributed to suspicion and rumors of possession or heresy (08:39).
  • “Hombre, hasta por la descripción que hay de todo lo que le ocurre tiene toda la pinta de ser ataques epilépticos.” (08:39)

7. Teresa’s Reforms and Relentless Activity

• Major changes to Carmelite life:

  • Teresa reformed the Carmelite order against fierce opposition, fighting corruption and laxity in convents, insisting on strict cloister, poverty, and separation from secular influences (09:45).
  • She faced denunciations, booed visits, and attempts to prevent her from entering convents she sought to reform (11:33).

• Impressive legacy:

  • Despite these obstacles, Teresa founded 16 convents in 20 years (11:17).
  • “Ni el pocero desarrolló esta actividad. [...] No es extraño que los agentes de la propiedad inmobiliaria la hicieran su patrona.” (11:19)

8. Relationship with Power and the King

• Support from Philip II:
  • Teresa’s connection to King Philip II gave her some protection; she didn’t hesitate to threaten a noble with reporting him to the king if he interfered with her reforms (12:53).

9. Failed Attempts to Make Teresa Patron Saint of Spain

• Persistent resistance:
  • Despite proposals, Teresa was blocked from being named patron saint given Spain already had St. James (“Santiago”), “who has the same category of reality as SpongeBob,” jokes Nieves (14:02).
  • “Es doctora, pero no es patrona. Santi es patrón, pero no es doctor. Porque es ficción.” (14:43)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nieves, on the Church’s misogyny:

  • “Alucinante. Y aclaró que así iba a seguir siendo, porque lo mismo alguien se venía arriba y hombre, si están reconociendo a una mujer como una gran erudita, como una doctora [...] pues lo mismo es que esto se va a empezar a mover y esto abre la puerta para que las mujeres tengan otra consideración. Pues no, no vengáis arriba. Que no.” (03:32)

• On Saint Paul’s legacy:

  • “Las bonitas palabras del machista y misógino San Pablo, supuestamente extraídas de su carta a los Corintios... Este tío se pasó la vida escribiendo a los corintios...” (04:07)

• On Sor Pascualina’s power in the Vatican:

  • “Si pasa Teresa por allí, quema el Vaticano entero con todos dentro. Que por eso ya me cae bien esta mujer. Por eso. No sólo por lo buena escritora que era, sin por lo incordio que fue con la Iglesia. Ahí estuvo su mérito, en lo molesta que fue.” (05:18)

• On the utility of monastic life:

  • “¿De qué utilidad tiene al mundo encerrarte, ser pobre y rezar? La verdad, no lo entiendo. Haz algo.” (09:29)

• On Teresa versus St. James as Spain’s patron:

  • “Santiago, que tiene la misma categoría de realidad que Bob Esponja, vamos.” (14:02)

Key Timestamps

• 00:26 – Discussion opens on the Church’s exclusion of women
• 01:01 – Teresa de Jesús named first female doctor in 1970
• 03:07 – Pope Paul VI and his justification for naming a female doctor
• 04:07 – Quoting and critiquing St. Paul’s words on women
• 05:18 – The story of Sor Pascualina and Nieves’ fiery hypothetical
• 06:18 – Teresa’s surveillance by the Inquisition and feminist writing
• 08:39 – Teresa’s “attacks” likely being epileptic seizures
• 11:17 – Teresa founded 16 convents in 20 years
• 12:53 – Teresa’s connection to Philip II, protecting her reforms
• 14:02 – Resistance against naming Teresa “patroness” of Spain

Tone and Style

Nieves Concostrina’s trademark blend of irreverence, sharp critique, historical rigor, and humor shines throughout the episode. She doesn’t shy from calling out misogyny, mocks ecclesiastical bureaucracy, and celebrates Teresa’s defiant spirit and intellect, making history both enlightening and entertaining.