Podcast Summary

Podcast: Todo Concostrina
Host: Nieves Concostrina (with interview partner)
Episode: Acontece que no es poco | El debate de la evolución en Oxford
Date: June 30, 2022
Theme: A lively historical recounting of the famous 1860 Oxford debate between supporters of Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution and proponents of creationism.

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the legendary Oxford debate of 1860, a pivotal moment in the clash between science and religion. Nieves Concostrina, in her signature humorous and irreverent style, delves into the details and colorful personalities involved in public discussions following the publication of Darwin's On the Origin of Species.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Historical Context of the Debate

• The debate took place on June 30, 1860, at the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, shortly after Darwin published On the Origin of Species (1859).
• At the time, society was riven between adherents of scientific inquiry and those clinging to literal biblical interpretations of creation.

Quote:
"En uno de los salones del museo, totalmente abarrotado de creacionistas y de evolucionistas, pues se enfrentaron dos hombres y metió baza un tercero, un tipo muy exaltado y fanático que se llamaba Robert Fitzroy."
— Nieves Concostrina (02:05)

2. The Principal Figures

• Charles Darwin himself was absent due to illness, known for "la enfermedad de Darwin"—a collection of chronic, undiagnosed ailments.
• Thomas Henry Huxley ("el bulldog de Darwin"), represented the scientific side: energetic, brilliant zoologist, and advocate of evolution.
• Samuel Wilberforce, the Bishop of Oxford, known as "Sam el Jabonoso" (the Soapy One), led the religious (creationist) argument.
• Robert Fitzroy, ex-captain of the HMS Beagle, passionately brandished his Bible throughout the debate, torn by guilt for having enabled Darwin’s formative voyage.

Quote:
"La razón la tenía el bulldog de Darwin. Y tenía la razón porque el tiempo le ha dado la razón y la ciencia lo ha ratificado."
— Nieves Concostrina (02:50)

3. Social and Cultural Climate

• At this historical moment, Victorian society was "volteados con lo de Darwin" (stunned by Darwin), with scientific curiosity budding and clerical authority being challenged.
• Even some theologians struggled to defend a strictly literal biblical narrative as public debate intensified.

Quote:
"Había pánico al mono. Tenían pánico al mono. Se les caía todo el tinglado abajo."
— Nieves Concostrina (04:17)

4. Memorable Moments of the Debate

• The highlight was the now-iconic exchange between Wilberforce and Huxley.
  • Wilberforce mockingly asked Huxley whether his descent from a monkey came from his mother or father. Huxley famously retorted that he’d rather be descended from a monkey than from a man who used his intelligence to ridicule honest scientific discussion.
  • The oratory, wit, and public humiliation of the bishop were both widely reported.

Quote:
"Si la cuestión es si prefiero tener por abuelo a un triste mono o a un hombre magníficamente dotado... que emplea esas facultades... para introducir el ridículo en una seria discusión científica, sin duda afirmo mi preferencia por el mono."
— Thomas Henry Huxley, recounted by Nieves Concostrina (09:27)

5. Atmosphere and Public Impact

• The event's open-door policy ensured broad societal impact, including press coverage and, notably, the attendance of women (rare at scientific events then).
• Attendance was so high (~1,000 people) that the venue changed at the last minute; the stifling atmosphere led to fainting spells, later recounted in newspapers.

Quote:
"El aforo de aquella sala se reventó... llegaron, se calculan, unas mil personas y aquello estaban como piojos en costura… hubo desmayos de algunas señoras. Y los desmayos también salieron en los periódicos."
— Nieves Concostrina (11:23)

6. Lasting Legacy

• The debate gave major momentum to evolutionist ideas and publicly embarrassed the creationist side.
• Its open, public format—organized by the Association for the Advancement of Science rather than a closed, elitist circle—was pivotal for popularizing scientific thinking.

Quote:
"Los creacionistas tienen mucha fe. Es verdad. Y los evolucionistas sólo tienen pruebas."
— Nieves Concostrina (12:23)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Opening Context
  "En ese combate eterno entre la razón y la fe, entre la ciencia y la religión... el 30 de junio de 1860 hubo lío y de los gordos en Oxford."
  — Interviewer (00:26)

• On Fitzroy’s Conflict
  "Se sentía culpable de la blasfemia evolucionista por haber llevado a Darwin a bordo de su barco."
  — Nieves Concostrina (07:56)

• Wilberforce’s Mockery & Huxley’s Taketown
  "Le preguntó si descendía del mono por línea paterna o materna. Huxley respondió que prefería descender del mono antes que de un hombre como el obispo."
  — (09:03)

• On the Debate’s Impact
  "Fue un impulso tremendo a la teoría de la evolución... el debate se celebró en un lugar abierto al público... trascendió a todo el mundo."
  — (09:56)

Important Segments and Timestamps

• [00:49] Introduction to the 1860 Oxford debate, difference between scientific and faith-based argumentation
• [02:05] Main participants introduced: Huxley, Wilberforce, Fitzroy
• [03:19] Context: Publication and reception of Darwin’s ideas in society
• [06:38] The personalities and personal motivations: Fitzroy’s internal conflict
• [08:47] The famous exchange between Huxley and Wilberforce
• [09:56] Consequences and importance of making knowledge public; the democratizing effect of the debate
• [11:42] Social change: women in scientific audiences, vivid description of the debate’s atmosphere
• [12:23] Final remarks on the triumph of science in the debate

Tone and Style

Nieves Concostrina delivers the episode with humor, irony, and colloquial language, making the history both accessible and engaging. Her style blends historical accuracy with biting asides and playful mockery of both the characters and their foibles.

Final Takeaway

The Oxford debate of 1860 stands as a landmark confrontation not just between science and faith, but between open inquiry and dogma. Nieves Concostrina’s telling reminds us how public debates, open to all, can be catalysts for intellectual and social change—even causing a few fainting spells along the way.

Recommended for:
Anyone interested in the history of ideas, the emergence of evolutionary theory, or simply great stories of scientific drama told with wit and candor.