Podcast Summary: Todo Concostrina – “Cualquier tiempo pasado fue anterior: Pajas de pesebre, pañales cagados, leches de vírgenes, suspiros de España”

Episode Date: December 28, 2025
Host: Nieves Concostrina
Contributors: Pepe Rubio, Emma Vallespinós, Ana Baltierra, Jesús Pozo
Guest: César Rina (Professor of Contemporary History, UNED/Universidad de Extremadura)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delves into the fascinating, often absurd history of religious (and laic) relics, focusing especially on the Christian tradition of collecting and venerating bodily remains and personal effects—no matter how improbable or unsavory—and how superstition, power, and business get woven into these traditions. The show dissects the bordering-on-comedic nature of some revered Christian relics (Jesus’ soiled swaddling clothes, the Holy Prepuce, the milk of Mary), their proliferation, and their role in Spanish and Catholic identity, drawing biting parallels between religious superstition, laic relic collection, and political mythmaking—especially under Franco’s dictatorship.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Market of Christian Reliquiae (00:30–09:37)

• Origins and Absurdity of Holy Relics:
  • Pepe Rubio, in his inimitably irreverent style, reviews some outrageous Christian relics:
    • The cradle, the straw, and the soiled diapers of the baby Jesus (claimed in multiple basilicas/cathedrals).
    • The “first Holy Diaper,” supposedly housing the “first Holy Poo and Pee”—exhibited for centuries in Lleida until vanished in the Spanish Civil War.
    • “Straw from the Manger” still for sale on eBay “2,025 years after the Nativity.”
    • Mary’s Milk: The legend of the angelic warning, spilled milk, and the industrious collector who bottled it for worldwide devotion:
      “Esta mujer producía como central lechera asturiana.” (Pepe Rubio, 03:40)
  • The “Holy Prepuce” (Jesus’s foreskin): Its supposed journey from John the Baptist, through monarchs and popes, to disappearing from an Italian parish in 1984.

Notable Quote:

• “De los más o menos 30 prepucios que se veneraban porque Jesucristo era un superdotado... pues no queda ninguno.” (Pepe Rubio, 05:49)

Superstición, Superchería, y el Diccionario (09:37–15:46)

• Dissection of Language and Religious Superstition:
  • Nieves skewers the RAE (Real Academia Española) for its conservative, religious-leaning definitions and its insistence on problematic terms like ‘Reconquista’, sexist language, and the shielded distinction between ‘superstition’ (irrational beliefs not sanctioned by the Church) and ‘faith’ (irrational beliefs sanctioned by organized religion).
  • She blasts the absurdity that venerating a “pata de conejo” is ‘superstition’, but fawning over “el Santo Sudario de Oviedo” is ‘faith’.

Notable Quote:

• “El diccionario de la Real Academia tiene más trampas que una película de chinos.” (Nieves Concostrina, 07:00)
• “Váyanse a pastar... los del diccionario por cómplices al hacer creer que es distinto venerar una pata de conejo que lo que llaman Santo Sudario de Oviedo.” (Nieves Concostrina, 09:20)

Las Reliquias como Mercado y Psicología de la Fe (15:46–19:49)

• Relics as Early Marketing & Faith Engineering:
  • The commodification/merchandising analogy: relics were Christianity’s “merch”.
  • The tradition predates Christianity—humans have always used objects to anchor faith and gain favor.
  • Objects from Jesus’ life (birth and death) are the ultimate in absurdity and commercial exploitation; full “Pasión” kits (nails, thorns, shrouds).
  • Special ire for the Sábana Santa (Shroud of Turin) and other fakes:
    “Todo eso es mentira. Ocho euros les van a cobrar por entrar a la catedral de Coria para ver un mantel blanquito con unos adornitos azules más falso que un euro de madera.” (Pepe Rubio, 12:56)
• Spain and Italy’s love-affair with relic business—driven by fanaticism and official support.

El negocio actual de reliquias y el mito científico (19:49–22:44)

• Pseudo-Science and the Relics:
  • Supposed “scientific studies” (of the Oviedo cloth, etc.) are roundly mocked.
  • Nieves notes the unscientific nature of it all:
    “No hay pruebas de qué factor RH tenía Jesucristo porque ni siquiera hay pruebas del propio Jesucristo.” (Pepe Rubio, 16:50)

Cara A y la psicología de la mala suerte (19:51–22:44)

• Emma Vallespinós talks folklore and the universal human drive to do rituals out of fear of “mala suerte,” setting up Sinatra’s “Everything happens to me”.

Reliquias laicas y el coleccionismo morboso (22:44–31:57)

• Ana Baltierra on “Laica” Relics:
  • Relics aren’t just religious—think artists’ bones, hair (like the supposed lock of Leonardo da Vinci).
  • The story of Leonardo’s “lock” is riddled with skepticism and illustrates the intersection of devotion, morbid curiosity, and the myth of genius:
    • Mechón de Leonardo: Found in US private collection, paraded as le cheveu de Léonard de Vinci.
    • No conclusive science; more expectation and PR than proof; possible “fake” labeled for show.
    • The 19th-century obsession with measuring genius via skulls.

Notable Quote:

• “El mechón...lleva siglos haciendo lo que mejor sabe: no demostrar nada, porque estamos como estábamos.” (Ana Baltierra, 30:00)

Las reliquias y la política franquista (32:01–45:44)

César Rina: Las Reliquias y el Poder Político (32:44–44:53)

• Relics as political weapon:
  • Not all relics are religious: political leaders, dictators’ bodies as relics.
  • Franco’s regime used relics to connect itself to Spain’s past glories—“restoring” the imperial Catholic Spain.
  • During the Civil War, soldiers wore “detentes” (Sacred Heart patches) for divine protection—a combo of faith and propaganda.
  • The Church consecrated the regime, merging religious and state symbols—like re-dressing the Virgin Mary with national colors.

Notable Quotes:

• “La Iglesia rápidamente...le regala lo sagrado para que hagan lo que quieran.” (César Rina, 35:10)

• “[Franco]...llega a abrir el sarcófago de Isabel la Católica y Fernando para que Franco respirase el aroma de Isabel y Fernando.” (César Rina, 37:49)

  • “Franco esnifando los polvos de Isabel y Fernando.” (Pepe Rubio, 38:33)

• Franco’s Reliquary Oddities:

  • The “hand of Santa Teresa” kept in his bedroom—even on holidays; family donated to nuns only after his death, but with a military decoration attached.
  • The Valley of the Fallen (now Cuelgamuros) as both a massive religious and political reliquary.
  • Rina argues that symbols this laden cannot simply be “resignified”—their potency persists.
  • Example: contemporary artist who turned Franco’s yacht into scrap metal ("franquismo hecho chatarra"), suggesting Spain needs similar treatment for fascist relics.

• Franco and “Resurrection” Myth:

  • The regime likened Spain’s postwar national rebirth to Christ’s resurrection—blending religious, historical, and invented myths for its own legitimacy.
    • “Es un pasado perfectamente reconstruido en aras de un discurso nostálgico y imperial.” (César Rina, 44:35)

Notable Quote:

• “Estoy pensando en lo bonito que quedaría el montón de escombros después de dinamitar esa basílica y esa cruz que sólo representan odio, fanatismo y fascismo.” (Pepe Rubio, 44:53)

El grotesco papel del CSIC y la superstición oficial (46:07–52:59)

• Relics meet science under Franco:
  • Franco’s minister, José Ibáñez Martín, gifts relics to the Pope; enshrines a bone supposedly belonging to San Isidoro beneath the Opus Dei church at Spain’s new CSIC, destroying the respected pre-war research institution.
  • Ridicules Spain’s purported “catolic science” and the farce of hunting for old bones for status.

Notable Quote:

• “Eres tonto, muchacho. Tú eres tonto y en tu casa lo tienen que saber porque aquí estamos hartos de saberlo. Que eres tonto.” (Pepe Rubio, 47:50)

Reliquias musicales – Rosalía’s “Reliquia” (53:02–54:45)

• Rosalía’s Song “Reliquia”: Inspired by relics of saints, especially Santa Rosa de Lima (whose remains, real or not, are scattered worldwide).
• She turns the idea on its head, transforming scattered relics into a metaphor for living pieces of oneself left in different places and experiences.

Notable Quote (lyric):

• “A mí me gusta pensar que vamos esparciendo partes de nosotros mismos en los lugares por los que pasamos. Y en vez de astillas de huesos, yo menciono en mi canción lengua, ojos, manos, pero también el descaro, la mala hostia, la fe y la sonrisa.” (Rosalía, as cited by Emma Vallespinós, 53:29)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with timestamps)

• “[...] Casi 30 prepucios que se veneraban porque Jesucristo era un superdotado [...] pues no queda ninguno.” (Pepe Rubio, 05:49)
• “El diccionario de la Real Academia tiene más trampas que una película de chinos.” (Nieves Concostrina, 07:00)
• “Váyanse a pastar... los del diccionario por cómplices al hacer creer que es distinto venerar una pata de conejo que lo que llaman Santo Sudario de Oviedo.” (Nieves Concostrina, 09:20)
• “El mechón...lleva siglos haciendo lo que mejor sabe: no demostrar nada, porque estamos como estábamos.” (Ana Baltierra, 30:00)
• “Franco esnifando los polvos de Isabel y Fernando.” (Pepe Rubio, 38:33)
• “Estoy pensando en lo bonito que quedaría el montón de escombros después de dinamitar esa basílica y esa cruz que sólo representan odio, fanatismo y fascismo.” (Pepe Rubio, 44:53)
• “Eres tonto, muchacho. Tú eres tonto y en tu casa lo tienen que saber porque aquí estamos hartos de saberlo. Que eres tonto.” (Pepe Rubio, 47:50)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:30–09:37: The farce and business of ancient Christian relics
• 09:37–15:46: Dictionary, superstitions, and language critique
• 15:46–19:49: Relics as merch & the escalation of faith-based absurdity
• 19:51–22:44: Psychological roots of superstition, “Everything happens to me”
• 22:44–31:57: Ana Baltierra on artist’s relics, Leonardo’s “lock of hair”
• 32:01–44:53: César Rina on relics, propaganda and Francoism
• 46:07–52:59: Franco, the CSIC, and the grotesque blend of science/religion
• 53:02–54:45: Rosalía’s “Reliquia” and modern relic metaphors

Tone & Style

The episode is irreverent, sharp-witted, and critical—skewering both the superstition and official sanctification of relics, as well as the social, linguistic, and political structures that perpetuate these myths. Concostrina and her guests blend scholarship with humor and a good dose of sarcasm, using both historical rigor and playful language to expose the arbitrary line between ‘superstition’ and ‘faith’.

This episode is perfect for listeners interested in the history of religion, mythmaking, political uses of tradition—and anyone with a taste for satirical, informed debunking of cherished nonsense.