Survival Mode vs. Success Mode: How to Capitalize on Chaos and Win Big | Daymond John (Fan Fav)

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu
Episode: Survival Mode vs. Success Mode: How to Capitalize on Chaos and Win Big | Daymond John (Fan Fav)
Date: April 12, 2025

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Main Theme

In this impactful and candid episode, Tom Bilyeu sits down with entrepreneur, star of Shark Tank, and bestselling author Daymond John for a fan favorite dialogue on survival mentality vs. success mentality. Together, they dissect what it really takes to break free from disadvantage, how to build lasting success out of hardship, and the practical mindsets and tactics needed to thrive in a time of uncertainty and chaos.

Daymond shares personal stories—from a tough upbringing to Shark Tank stardom—explaining how self-reliance, empathy, continuous learning, and the power of “affordable steps” fueled his improbable journey. The discussion is raw, motivational, and filled with actionable takeaways.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The “Nobody’s Coming to Save You” Mindset

• Self-reliance as origin story:
  Daymond details how life forced him to negotiate with himself about what he deserved and needed to change. He emphasizes the importance of mental inventory—honestly assessing your life, your role in it, and what you want to become.
  • Quote:
    “Nobody’s gonna come to your house and take you off the couch. [...] Everybody right now is scared...not thinking of you right now. They’re thinking about survival mode themselves. [...] Until you understand it’s up to you, the buck stops [with] you, then you’re never going to get anywhere.” (Daymond John, 01:32-02:53)

Taking Inventory: Achievements, Failures & Forward Vision

• Soul-searching as the first step:
  Reflect on personal high points and setbacks. Daymond urges listeners to write their obituary—deciding whether they’d be satisfied living life as-is, or if real change is needed. Success, he says, isn’t always outcomes but knowing you “left it all on the damn field.” (03:21-06:07)

On Disadvantage and Work Ethic

• No excuses, even when the deck is stacked:
  Daymond elaborates on how his own many disadvantages (absent dad, poverty, dyslexia, no contacts, racism, danger) didn’t dictate his results:
  • Quote:
    “If I can do it…and this is one of the main reasons I do write the books and I put things out—because I’m a prime example of simplicity, hard work and common sense...You apply that, you can do it.” (06:35-08:40)
• Learning from those with even ‘less’ than you:
  “I’ve met people that are more successful than me that had it harder than me.” (Daymond John, 07:52)

Lessons from Daymond’s Mother: Real-Life Education, Discipline, and Empathy

• Opening one’s worldview:
  His mother encouraged cross-cultural experiences and exposed him to new environments, discouraging a limiting mindset regarding race and opportunity.

  • Quote:
    “We have more in common than we have against each other...if you really look back [...] no oppressor was ever overthrown without unity of all colors.” (Daymond John, 09:15-11:55)

• Tough love and personal responsibility:
  She allowed real consequences for his actions (“You’re not gonna allow him to move on [in school], because he needs to understand his destiny is in his hands”) and made sure he absorbed the lesson of self-responsibility.

  • “She said, no, no, you’re not. [...] He needs to understand that his destiny is in his hands.” (Daymond John, 11:55-15:44)

Why Some Kids Break Cycles, Others Don’t

• Common sense, a bigger world, and heartbreak as motivators:
  Daymond chose a different path because he valued his mother’s love and recognized the futility in cycles of crime. (17:19-19:16)

Key Principles Daymond Would Pass to His Children

• Expand your circle; find mentors, diverse perspectives:
  Constantly move among people who push you.

  • Quote:
    “Keep expanding your circle. [...] Having empathy for other people makes you somebody who people want to be with.” (19:46-20:16)

• Travel and don’t ‘lock down’ your life too early:
  “For the first 15 years you’re someone’s child, then you’re someone’s spouse, parent, grandparent—I want my daughters to travel the world and know who they are.” (23:13)

• Constant education:
  Encourages learning through life experience, not just formal channels (23:56-24:14).

Foundational Education for Young People

• What to learn?
  • Financial literacy.
  • Technology/coding.
  • Health/habits.
• “I think technology, any form of coding, any form, so they can write their own code and their own line. I don’t know how to do it myself but I mean this is where the world is going.” (Daymond John, 26:40-27:28)

Leadership Lessons & Entrepreneurial Mindset

• Think like entrepreneurs, even if you’re not one:
  “You’re seeing a problem that you figured at first somebody else is going to solve, but you decide that nobody else is solving it. [...] Take affordable steps so you can act, learn and then repeat.” (28:45-29:06)

• Story of ‘affordable steps’ with FUBU:
  He began selling hats with $40, reinvested profit, learned from small failures, and iterated. “I closed FUBU down three times from ’89 to ’92, because I ran out of capital. But I ran out of $500, I ran out of $1,000.” (29:23-32:22)

  • Quote:
    “When I see really truly successful entrepreneurs, they failed six or seven or eight times ... but they took affordable steps.” (Daymond John, 31:50)

• Leadership philosophy:
  Never wanted his employees to feel a glass ceiling. Sought problem-solvers, culture fit, and people who make others want to stay.

  • “You have to like you or the team has to like you, because you’re not going to get too much production out of people that have conflict.” (Daymond John, 37:29-38:58)
  • “In my company, you talk to the boy or girl in the mail room the same way as you do to the CEO. [...] That person is a person.” (Daymond John, 35:31)

Negotiation—Influence, Empathy, and Relationship-Building

• Three-part framework for negotiation:

  1. Build influence (social media matters, even for "regular" people)
     • “Are you able to build influence there? [...] When people do [their] first point of interaction with you, they look at your social media.” (40:12)
  2. Negotiate with empathy (see what’s in it for the other person)
     • “The best part of negotiation—what’s in it for the other person. [...] Have empathy.” (44:37-45:05)
  3. Nurture relationships (long-term value is in positive ongoing engagements)
     • “The following part is, how do you nurture that relationship way after the initial contact point?” (45:54-47:16)

• Don’t make others figure out your value:
  “I get people coming up to me all the time. Tom, just let me know how I can help you. And my thing is, don’t make me think of how you can help me.” (Tom Bilyeu, 42:01)

Avoiding Being Taken Advantage of in Negotiation

• Hold your line, know your must-haves:
  “Go in the room knowing what you’re willing to deal with and stand firm by it.” (Daymond John, 49:52)

• Empathy does not mean weakness:
  “When I’m saying be empathetic, I’m saying that it needs to be a win win for both parties. But I’m not saying to be taken advantage of.” (49:52-51:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Mental chains are the hardest to break.” (Daymond John, 01:32)
• “You have to write your obituary down right now. [...] Until you create that change yourself, what do you expect to get out of it?” (Daymond John, 03:21-06:07)
• “If my dumb ass can make it, then you can do it too, dude.” (Daymond John, 08:40)
• “If you give somebody everything, you make them the poorest person in the world.” (Daymond John, 15:44)
• “You act, learn, and repeat.” (Daymond John, 31:50)
• “People just want to feel appreciated.” (Daymond John, 48:48)
• “You never know where [nurtured relationships] is going to go. [...] Even if you lost in one deal, if you have a good relationship with them, that loss will pay dividends.” (Tom Bilyeu, 47:16-48:48)

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Important Timestamps

• Mindset origin & self-responsibility: 01:13–02:53
• Inventory and self-assessment exercise: 03:21–06:07
• Addressing disadvantage—no excuses: 06:35–08:40
• Daymond’s mother’s lessons: 09:15–15:44
• Why stay out of the cycle—heartbreak & common sense: 17:19–19:16
• Key lessons for kids/next generation: 19:46–24:14
• Education priorities for youth: 26:11–27:28
• Entrepreneurship, affordable steps (FUBU’s origin): 29:23–32:22
• Leadership principles & hiring: 33:44–38:58
• Influence and negotiation framework: 39:11–47:16
• Empathy’s role in business: 45:05, 48:48

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Tone & Style

The conversation is raw, honest, and direct—melding Daymond John’s street-level wisdom with Tom Bilyeu’s curiosity and experience. Daymond is unfiltered, frequently humble, and focused on actionable advice, emphasizing universal principles over platitudes.

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Summary

This episode is an energizing masterclass on getting out of “survival mode” and into authentic, sustained success—even (especially) when the odds are stacked against you. Both John and Bilyeu champion relentless self-education, connection across lines, and “affordable steps” as essential tools. Daymond’s blend of tough love, humor, and practical stories makes it impossible not to walk away motivated—and with several concrete tools to start building a better life ASAP.

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Transcript

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You are listening to Impact Theory.

[Daymond John]

Impact Theory.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Impact Theory.

[Daymond John]

Impact Theory. Impact baby.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of Impact Theory. I am here with Damon John. What is up man? Thank you so much for coming on the show.

[Daymond John]

Thank you for having me, man.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Absolutely. A pleasure. I have to say that in researching you, I really resonate with some of the ideas from the Power of Broke to Nobody's coming to save you. Nobody's going to get you off the couch. That's on you. Where did that mindset develop for you?

[Daymond John]

You know, I had, I've written several books and I'm dyslexic so it's challenging for me to write, write books. And I realized that the mindset of being able to apply something is first the negotiation you have to have with yourself on why do you deserve it? Why are you in your circumstances, you know, what have you done wrong and is it not too late to change it or you know, whatever it is. I mean, mental chains are the hardest to break. So I get, I usually get the more I compile like the most commonly asked questions because usually when I write my book, somebody asked me, I go, go read that book, go read Tim Ferriss book. Go read, you know, whatever the case is. But I realize a lot of people just didn't mentally think they had the power. So I wrote Power Shift because like you said, nobody's gonna come to your house and take you off the couch. I mean, especially today, right? Everybody right now is scared. They're excited, they're concerned, they're angry and they're not thinking of you right now. They're thinking about survival mode themselves. So until you understand that you are in charge of your mental aptitude and the way that you're gonna handle life and take on the bumps and the bruises, you know, until you understand it's up to you, the buck stops you, then you're never going to get anywhere.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. One thing that I have found very difficult to deal with is that it's really hard if somebody has that mentality that they, somebody has to give them power or that somebody could even take power away from them. It's hard to get them to start taking action that's really going to help them. Do you have say magic words? If somebody's listening to this right now and they want you to be right, do you have sort of that key insight that helps people see? No, no, no, I really can do this.

[Daymond John]

Yeah. You know, if they looked at all their successes, where they're happy or where they've overcome things in life, they realize they dug deep into something, you know, they realize that they didn't take no for an answer. If they look at where they are stuck or challenged, they need to reflect and say, at what point in my life did that, that starry eyed person, where did it go? You know, and what, what took that away? And you'll realize at the end of the day, I mean, you know, listen, if you're somebody who is that, that middle aged person who turns back around and says, you know, I was Al Bundy, I was the star of the football team, I had that time or whatever, I was that beautiful woman or I was that smart, loved my life. And now, you know, you know something's gone wrong. Once you accept that, you'll realize you can get back to where you were or that good moment. But you just have to take a hard look and take inventory. You have to write your obituary down right now. And you want to know if you're going to live like that now, God willing, you're still going to be here tomorrow, next year, 10 years and 20 years from now. But until you create that change yourself, like what do you expect to get out of it? You're gonna get zero. Right? And if you're miserable right now, then obviously you have done a lot of things or made a lot of excuses or had the wrong influences around you that has created the environment you're in. And what are you gonna do to change it? I mean, we're seeing it every day. I mean, I think that's why Shark Tank is such a great show. You know, you're sitting at home and, you know, you used to think millionaires and billionaires are born with money or everything happening. You're seeing moms and dads and kids and people of all colors and genders and race and sexual preference come on there and say, no, I was home. I had zero. And I took this one sock and I made two, and then I made four. And then guess what? And I think that's why, you know, it is. So to give you the short answer, it's taking a hard, deep look at your inventory of, you know, what in life was your successes, what were your failures, and how did you learn from them? Taking inventory of where you want to go. How do you want to be seen? Taking inventory of what is your, you know, your assets right now? Do you have a certain amount of time? Are you somebody that lights up the room when you come in? Do you want to cure somebody's problem? Do people love you? You know, you know, are you willing to work harder than everybody else? You know, where is. Where is the empathy you see in the world that's going to need to be changed? So you take inventory of all these, and you do some real soul searching. And you're at the first step of living a very fruitful life. And even if you don't get to where you want to be, at least you know, you left it all on the damn field.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What do you say, though, to people for whom the deck really is stacked against them, like they're coming at it from a place that's harder than somebody else. You know, for better or worse. I think we'd all agree for worse that the luck who. You know, all of that stuff is not evenly distributed, right? So some people are. They're. They're certainly starting from a deficit. Do you give them a pass or to you, is it just sort of the nature of the beast that you have to outwork, outperform?

[Daymond John]

I'm never going to give them a pass because my father left when I was 10 years old. Raised by a single mother, I started working when I was 10 years old. I haven't stopped working ever since. I'm dyslexic. I got left back in school. I never went to college. I didn't know anybody with wealth. I grew up in a community that was riddled with crack, and half of my friends were dead or in jail by the age of 21. I'm short. I don't have no athletic skill. I can't sing and I can't dance really well, and I'm black. And I've been at the barrel of a cop's gun three separate times when my only crime was I had T shirts in my back. Trunk and I was reaching for the stars. I'm told I would never be able to do anything in life. And now I'm a motivational speaker, five time author, best selling author. I've been on a major network for 12 years. I've created a company that has influenced a good portion of the planet and I've employed thousands of people and been able to change people's lives. You know, the reality is I'm never going to get away from being black, short and dyslexic. That's just what it is. So let's get past that. I'm not going to get away from the fact that Covid is here. That's just what it is, right? So if I can do it, and this is one of the main reasons that I do write the books and I put things out because I'm a prime example of simplicity, hard work and common sense with morals and being able to embarrass yourself, take affordable steps and learn from them and you apply that, you can do it. I do know it's hard. And reality is I've met people that are more successful than me that had it harder than me. People that grew up in countries where they have to drink out of the same water that the animals drink out of. You know, that they've seen tragic, tragic things happen on a daily basis. You know, so, you know, it's out there. But we have two choices. To sit there and say, woe is me and just be another one of the statistics, or to sit there and give it out, give it our best and learn from people like me who say, if my dumb ass can make it, then you can. You can do it too, dude.

[Tom Bilyeu]

One thing that really inspired me in your story is your mom. I love the story of you taking her to the meeting with Samsung and I thought that was brilliant. You're like, look, my mom's smart. Why wouldn't I bring her? What was it that she like, gave you mentally? Because it seems like you're. And maybe you had to overcome some crazy shit that was like problematic from a belief system standpoint, but you seem to have been on the right beliefs pretty early. Did she instill you with stuff that allowed you to reach for the stars even though you had what looked like from anybody's perspective to, you know, to be a lot of things that had to be overcome?

[Daymond John]

You know, I think the beauty of my mother is that she always tried and she always educated herself. And even if she had a day job, she worked on some kind of night job or Another way to make money. But the key to her was that she educated herself and she tried to educate me and educate me in real life experience. She, you know, listen, we're in a day and age right now where people are. It's tough, right? And people are thinking that white people are the oppressor or they have it better. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Black people are being tortured and there is no way out. Maybe that is the challenge. But what my mother did when my father left, she did a couple of things. Number one, the man who came into my life, who I happened to call my stepfather, he dated my mother for about three or four years, happens to be of the Jewish faith. He happens to be white. And I learned at that time, I educated myself and I learned that people are people and we have more in common than we have against each other. And his brother actually was one of the lead attorneys over here who helped to free Mandela. And I realized at that time, if you really look back, that whether it's civil rights, war or civil war or the civil rights or apartheid, no, no oppressor was never overthrown without unity of all colors. So, number one, that opened my mind to a world of accepting people for people and vice versa. Not being, not letting people make me feel lesser of a person because of my color. I walked into the room as a man. And when I walked in the room as a man, a proud man.

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[Daymond John]

Not to see my vision and there's nothing for us to do, but the other side of it is because we're different. We're going to get innovation Because I'm going to share things with you that you may not know, and you're going to share things with me that we may not know. We're going to make money together. So she educated me in regards to that. But then also, she would send me away to someplace different every summer for various reasons. And she wanted me to get out of the inner city where my friends were obviously, you know, being. Having challenges because they didn't have the right resources around. But she wanted me to see the world. So she would send me to Barbados or Toronto or. I lived in Hawaii for, you know, the summer. Now somebody will sit there and go, oh, okay, Damon. Well, sounds like you had a lot of resources living in Hawaii for the summer. No, my mother had a friend that worked on it that was in the Navy, and that woman had a son. My mother said, I will take your son for the summer. You take my son for the summer. And this would be 9, 11. You can buy a ticket in advance. So my mother would buy a 17 connecting flight ticket from New York to Hawaii three years earlier. So I would leave in June to get to Hawaii. I'll get there in September. But my mind was open to all these things. And the last thing my mother did for me is at an early age, she made me understand that I'm in charge of my own destiny. And this is the hardest thing to teach kids, because I have the challenge of teaching that to my daughter now. And I believe that if you give somebody everything, you make them the poorest person in the world. And when I was in a school, right when my parents got divorced, I thought messing up was get my parents together, because I was in the seventh grade. And I remember the teachers telling my mother, if Damon only passed one test, one last test, because we know he's rebelling, we will let him go. If not, he's going to have to get left back. And I went out that night before the test, and I played as much basketball as I could, rode my bike and chewed bubble gum, did whatever I did. I get a 30 on the test. My mother goes into the school, and the teachers go, we know about the divorce. We see what he's doing. We're gonna allow him to move on from seventh grade to eighth grade. And this was a Catholic school at the time because my mother said. She said, no, no, you're not. You're not gonna allow him to move on, because he needs to understand that his destiny is in his hands. And I. And I don't have any money anymore. So the little $4,000 a year I would pay for Catholic school. I don't have it. And I'm taking Damon out and putting him in public school. Well, of course, during that summer, I said, first of all, my mother said, I'm gonna be on punishment for the whole summer. I'm not gonna be able to go out. But guess what? She has two jobs. There's no way in the world that she's gonna be able to tell if I'm going out or not. And by the way, that public school she wants to send me to, they eat their young over there. I mean, they are horrible people. My mother wouldn't send her little only child to that public school. And guess what happened? My mother goes out and gets a third job. So she gets a babysitter to watch me. She whips me the old school way, lay down. She took a belt, pulled down my pants, whipped my ass. And then when I got to school in September, it was not with my cozy little friends. I knew for seven years I was in public school getting my ass whipped. And it soaked in. My response, nobody's gonna save me. And so I learned responsibility at that time. And that would, that would. I think it would follow me for the rest of my life that the buck stops with me.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Dude, your mom is legit. That gave me the chills when you were telling that story. I have. I didn't get into quite that much trouble, but I had a similar. My mom was so fucking hardcore. She was not for play. And she was just like, look, if I have to discipline you till the cows come home, then so be it. That's how it's going to be. You're going to be on the straight and narrow. You're going to get your shit done. And that really did have an impact on me. And so I ended up not having kids. And part of the reason that I didn't have kids was 2. 1. Like you said, I think if you give somebody everything, you make them the poorest person in the world. That is so well put. And I'd been very successful. And so I was afraid if I say this super, super raw, I was afraid I did not have the strength of character so to deny my children something when they look at you with those big doughy eyes. You recount that story so powerfully in your new book, Power Shift, where of course, we don't know you're talking about your three year old daughter, but you're telling the story of this really intense negotiation and you reveal that it is your daughter. And I thought yeah, that's the moment where I thought I was going to be weak. So mad props to your mom. I think that is so powerful. And forcing somebody to see the consequences of their actions, I think is really intense. Now there's a couple ways though, that you could have gone in that. And I'm super curious to know whether it was something else that she gave you that, you know, brought you back around to I can do this or something else. But one way is, you know, get so angry with her that you just continue to rebel and not do your thing. And fine, you want to send me to this school, then I'm gonna start hanging out with the bad kids and doing drugs or whatever.

[Daymond John]

Why didn't you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Why'd you. I mean, you end up obviously killing it in life.

[Daymond John]

I. Well, initially with, initially with my mother, well, you know, I had common sense too. I realized that, you know, it's got to be a bigger world out there than the little world that I knew in Hollis Queens. And I would hear people getting beat up or dying or going to jail, and I would say, I'm just not. I couldn't understand living in a cage for five, six, seven, ten years. And I mean, listen, when we're thinking about this quarantine, people can't even. They can't, they can't stand living in their home for a month, right? So I realized it was what I didn't want out of life. I didn't know that I could potentially become successful and that would happen later on in life. But I also broke my mother's heart when I heard her one night I was listening in her bedroom and she was sobbing. She's a very strong woman. And I remember why she was sobbing. It was because I was not doing the right thing and I was getting whatever, you know, bad grades. And I think that I heard her on the phone and she was saying how much she was working and why was I doing to this to her. And I think it was my love for her that made me want to do this, go on the straight and narrow. So it was two things. It was. I didn't want to end up where I was seeing most people end up because I just had common sense and, you know, being a drug dealer was short lived. And next thing I was breaking the heart of the only person in my life and I just didn't want to do that. And then, and then I started to apply myself in various different ways and I started to find my meaning in life on what I wanted to do, how I wanted to Challenge myself and how I wanted to create a difference. And I think that they all kind of started to flow together, you know, but again, that didn't happen until I was like 20, 21, 22. But, you know, that's what kids do. We're trying to find ourselves.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, for sure. Speaking of kids, man, if so, I know you had a health scare with thyroid cancer. Congratulations, by the way, for finding it so early and taking aggressive measures. But if it had gone the other way and you could only like, sort of package up for your kids, like three ideas. It doesn't have to be three, but just like a couple core ideas that you think maximize their chance for success. Like, what are those foundational ideas that have led to your success?

[Daymond John]

Yeah, it would have been to constantly keep moving in different circles and finding mentors and people that are smarter than you or they're complementary to you. They're all reaching for the stars in a methodical way that your moral compass understands. So keep expanding your circle. Number one.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Why is that important? Because it's interesting when you talk about getting shipped around a lot as a kid to obviously experience different things. How does that help?

[Daymond John]

Yeah, I think the worldview and I think different views make you a more well rounded person, you know, and I think that having empathy for other people makes you somebody who people want to be with and. And you have better answers for things. You know, I think that you all see different races, religions, or colors of people and you'll start to say, it'll broaden your mind. It really will make you want to educate yourself in different ways. And you may find something that you never would have thought of. You may find a love and a passion in a different area that you want to go into. You know, when I was, when I was coming up, there was two companies, Cross Colors and Karl Kanai, that were started. And I remember seeing Karl Kanai on a hang tag and I remember saying, and I mean, this just this light went off on my head. It said, wait a minute, I can actually make and design my own clothes. Because prior to that we had only seen people who are flamboyant, European, Y designer. Right. We never saw that. So the seeing of that person opened me up to say, maybe I want to try to make my own clothes and T shirts. Now that's point number one. But also in my travels, I met a lot of people who were gay and white and brown and whatever the case is. And I. And they became good friends of mine in my neighborhood. And you know, listen, Fugu was very Close to rap. It was about a music that I wanted people to enjoy and I wanted to dress people for it. But it's a very homophobic culture. And to make a long story short, by opening up my mind to see that picture of that young man, by knowing people who have different sexual preferences, but knowing and loving them for who they were. I didn't mind becoming a designer, but all of my friends thought that I was gay at the time and they stopped talking to me. But I was comfortable with my sexuality because I knew people who happened to be gay that were great people. I was comfortable being able to design because I saw this thing. So it was all these exposures to things that made me say, I'm going to do this. Because a lot of the things that we see, people that hinder them is because they don't think it could be done, because they think people will laugh at them because they haven't seen somebody else do it that looks like them or who believes in the same thing they believe in. And I just think that those are the things that I. That's why I would share with my daughters, to go out and meet as many people in the world as they can. And also to not lock themselves down until they're 35 years old or older. Because, you know, for the first 15

[Tom Bilyeu]

years of your life, lock themselves down. Meaning marriage.

[Daymond John]

Marriage, yeah. Because I believe that for the first 15 years, you're somebody's daughter or son. Right. And if you're gonna live to hopefully be a hundred years old, you know, after that, you're going to be somebody's husband or wife, then somebody's parent and somebody's grandparents. I want my daughters to travel the world and know who they are. Just for 10 years, right? From 20 to 30, 20, 35, whatever case, if that other person you want to get married to, if they're not there, then screw them. I didn't say don't have a boyfriend, but don't let them be you for a period of time. Know who you are, what you truly want out of life. And then last but not least, you know, I would tell my daughter to constantly educate themselves, you know, so those are the things that I would. I would push on them.

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, I love that, man. I think those are amazing things to push on somebody. You mentioned education with your mom as well. And I wanted to ask you then, how did she educate herself? Was it just buying books? Library card? I'm guessing this is way before the Internet. So what was she doing to further her education?

[Daymond John]

Yeah, she would Read, you know, newspapers. She would go and go to the library and pick up books and stuff. And she would also, if there was a way to do it, meaning she read a book or no, she wanted to make a blouse for herself. She would then actually, hands on, try to do it. She would also teach me about myself because. And she did it, you know, being very slick about it. She would say, hey, Damien, you know, I gotta. I gotta get the food ready, and then I gotta go to work. So do me a favor, can you read me the New York Times? And so I would stand there next to her for an hour a day, and I would read the New York Times. And then she would ask me questions about it. And it got me used to reading. And I gotta say, you know, and I know that, you know, like your interviews, we go up on different topics and stuff like that, but something fascinating happened to me yesterday. My. My friend called me and he said, you know, my son, who was 12 years old, I bought him something very expensive, and I told him to read that whole manual, that book, you know, front page to the last page. And he was online, and he said all his friends were laughing at them because kids no longer want to read. They're reading memes or they hit the top hit on Google, and they want to read little things like this because there's too much information out there, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. They don't have the attention span anymore because, you know, our buddy Seth Godin will say, they're not making more attention in this world. And the other thing, which is not that important, but his son does not know how to really write cursive. We're going into a new world where the kids are not educating themselves in certain ways, or so I think that my mother teaching me, even though I was dyslexic, how to sit down and have the patience to read something fully through a full book is extremely important for parents to teach their kids today to get that discipline going early.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, no question. And that whole notion of education, what it is, what topics matter, I think is really interesting. And I've heard you answer the question a lot of times, like, what would you have done different? You always say financial literacy. You would have gotten that early. What are the topics that you think like right now? If somebody's listening to this, and let's say they're 14 or 15, and you just want to make sure that they are set up, what are the core things that they should be educating themselves on? So obviously, financial literacy, what else I

[Daymond John]

think technology, any form of coding, any form, so they can write their own code and their own line. I don't know how to do it myself but I mean this is where the world is going to be going. So I think operating those two things and you know, not as much as

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[Daymond John]

You, you know as when we grew up, but of course health, you know, but you know, a young kid at 14 years old, they're not thinking about much. You know, they're not thinking about, you know, drinking a green drink. But you know that investment pays off in so many more dividends when you're at 30, 40, 50, 60 years old. But fully definitely educating yourself on some kind of the digital divide as well obviously is a big challenge and financial intelligence, those are the two keys.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What do you think? So a lot of your advice, I find sort of circles around leadership. You have really counterintuitive and I would say as an entrepreneur, really insightful notions about motivating a staff, keeping them excited, keeping high functioning talent around for the long term. So where do you come down on? Is leadership something that people can learn about? If so, sort of what are some key tenants? And then how do you think about deciding am I an entrepreneur, Am I an intrapreneur? Is there anything around those things people should be getting clarity on?

[Daymond John]

Yeah, so the first part about entrepreneur and intranor is I think that all people should think like entrepreneurs, even working within a system because then you'll have more.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What does that mean exactly?

[Daymond John]

You know, that is the basics of entrepreneurship is that you're seeing a problem that you figured at first somebody else is going to solve, but you decide that nobody else is solving it. You're going to take on that problem. It is taking affordable steps so you can act, learn and then repeat entrepreneurs.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So because I've read your stuff, I know what you mean by affordable steps. But give people like a super quick example from the early days of fubu, this is your rise is one of the most instructional, educational, inspirational rises of any entrepreneur ever. It'd be great for people to get Just a little taste.

[Daymond John]

Yeah. So, you know, the theory of me having a clothing company and going into stores and, you know, there's one way to look at it. Hey, I want to have a clothing company and I'm going to take out a loan and I'm going to, you know, get some samples. Then I'm going to go around to the store, or I'm going to market it, or I'm going to go online and I'm going to put up a store and, you know, and I'm going to invest in an online site. I'm going to invest in social media, maybe I'm going to do some Facebook ads, and I'm going to have a good amount of inventory, right? And that wasn't my. My under. My way of doing it. Not because that. That couldn't be possible. It could be possible in whatever form back then, meaning I'll get a boutique or I'll get a kiosk or whatever case is. But I didn't have any money. So taking affordable steps was something that I was able to do. I was able to make. Get $40 and make 80 hats and go on the corner and stand on the corner and sell them and make $800 and then, you know, get a couple of T shirts and sell them. And it always went affordable, you know, boom, boom. And then a step back, right? Because I would. But I would be learning during the course of the process, right? So I made the hats, made $800. All right? So let me go and buy $800 worth of T shirts at $10 a pop, that is 80 T shirts. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to buy 10, I'm going to buy eight colors, right? I'm going to buy black, blue, green, red, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? But because I did that, what did I learn? Well, out of the 80T shirts in fashion, 65% of all sales are black. 20, 20% is white, and the other small percent is anything else. So now I got 80T shirts, and I sold all the blacks and all the whites. Now I'm sitting on top of 60t shirts that I can't sell. All right? So now I fall back. So the next time I then finally get some money, I buy more black, I buy more white, right? I took an affordable step. Well, then I realized that my customer wanted only double XL, because at that time, double XL was cool, baggy. I didn't. If the kid was 95 pounds, holding a brick, soaking wet, you know what I did? I took A small shirt. And I cut the small out and I put double XL in the damn shirt. So that's why affordable steps are important, because you act, learn, and repeat. And I closed FUBU down three times from 89 to 92, because I ran out of capital, but I ran out of $500. I ran out of $1,000. And the business kept calling me back. People would say, I saw the shirt, I love it. And I got this euphoria feeling. I said, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna start up again. So when I see really truly successful entrepreneurs, they failed six or seven or eight times. They started a company, they didn't have all their. Their legal in place. They closed the company down, started again, they didn't have their accounting, they had their legal, but they didn't have accounting. Started again, legal accounting, they didn't have distribution, started again. By the time they get to their eighth company, they're like, yo, I got all this shit worked out. But they took affordable steps.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, I love that idea of affordable steps. I think that's so important. People also should know that when you first really started getting recognized, you were already 10 years in. Like you said, you shut it down almost three times. So getting that this is a long road that you're going to be going, that it better be something that you're passionate about. I always tell people, look, the success is not guaranteed, but the struggle is. So if the struggle is guaranteed, you know, the shit is going to be hard no matter what you do, then it better be something that you care about, because that's going to be the only thing that keeps you sane as you're trying to build this thing. Yeah, that. That makes a lot of sense to me, for sure.

[Daymond John]

Yeah. And as we talk about the leadership stuff, and, you know, and I love to simplify it, I think that's what makes me excited about stuff. You know, I've been to many speaking engagements, and I've seen a lot of things where people are, you know, their PhDs and they're talking so, so great about. The information was going over my head. I love to share with people my story and what I've done because I shared in simplistic form, because sometimes people can get intimidated by what they see out there and people they see out there. But my leadership. My leadership theory is that as a person of color who felt like there was a glass ceiling in various places that I may have worked, I never wanted people to feel like there's a glass ceiling working for me.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Also that's really interesting. Can we drill into that? So when you were coming up and Are we talking at Red Lobster? That's the only place I've heard of. I'm sure there were more in life Story.

[Daymond John]

In life? Yeah, in life, you know, because when

[Tom Bilyeu]

I was coming up, how did that internalize for you? Were you like, man, fuck. I just. I know I'm not getting opportunities because I'm black or. What did that. What was that?

[Daymond John]

No, my. My. My feeling was it'd be hard for me to go after opportunities because I've never seen somebody on TV that looks like me that wasn't music related or at. Or in sports. And at that time, we didn't have the Internet, so we couldn't get to see amazing business people of color, which. There are millions of them, and they're amazing people. I would work as a quick messenger for a company called First Boston that happens to be a venture capital firm. And when I would have my paint paycheck every two weeks and I can afford a $4 hamburger, I would go upstairs to the corporate dining room, and there were no women and there were no people of color there. So I felt that society only rewarded a certain person or they actually held other people back. So as I would grow my career in my, you know, my office. My office was United Nations. I couldn't care who you were, whether it's your education level or whether it's your color. Okay, yes, I did want you to educated if you were my attorney. I wasn't hiring an intern for my attorney. But other than that, I believed also that. I mean, the theory of being an entrepreneur is, I'm making $10 right now, but I'd rather give you two, and I'd only take eight, because collectively now we're going to make 12, and vice versa. But I never believed that no matter what job you were doing, were you ever beneath anybody else. You had to be able. In my company, you talk to the boy or the girl in the mail room the same way that you talk with respect to the CEO, because somebody dedicating themselves to. You have no right to say that you are a better man or woman than that person, because that person has family, that person has love, and that person is a person. So I think that that is where my leadership mentality has come in from and as well as how can I have people be entrepreneurs in my company if they can't, if they're not rewarded for potentially taking small steps and trying to do things outside of the box as long as it's morally correct with what we're doing and long nobody else gets hurt. So I have those. That's just been my way of leadership. And I'll be very honest, I don't like, you know, when, when my company was big and we had three or four hundred people working for us internally and another couple of thousand externally, I didn't like it. So I also take my hat off to those who can move 10,000.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What was it that you didn't like?

[Daymond John]

You know, I felt like at that time, you know, listen, I came up, you know, in the streets and I wasn't as educated a lot of time in certain leadership and I didn't realize for every 50 people you may need one HR person. So I had an open door policy and I felt like I was a shrink, you know, all the time. And I did want my people to feel comfortable to come and be able to speak to me. But again I also, and that is my leadership way. I also have a massive amount of respect for people who can move 10,000 people in unison and lead people. So there's going to be a million different ways to be a leader.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So if you're not looking for education for most roles, I get the thing about you want your attorney to be really well educated, but if you're not looking at education, you don't give a shit about skin color. What is it about? What is it you're looking for? Is it a trait personality type? Like what, what do you go for?

[Daymond John]

Yeah, so definitely it is a trait. It is a problem solving trait. Personality wise is I have to like you or I feel the team has to like you because you're not going to get too much production out of people that have conflict and or don't want to work with each other. Because whether it's on zoom, whether it's an investment, whether I'm employing somebody, you know, can I sit next to you for eight hours a day, five days a week for the next five years of my life? And if I can and I'm excited about it and you're a problem solver, well, then we're going to have innovation. We're going to have, it's going to be, you know, infectious for the rest of the team. And we're going to set a culture that people want to be part of and you're going to retain more people because if you have heavy turnover, a lot of work stops. Number one, you may be creating a competitor of yours because that person sees where you're doing wrong and says, I can do it better, you know, or a lot of industry secrets are being let out. So I don't want heavy turnover. I want people we can trust. And just like in any relationship, when a couple of things happen bad, well, if you get somebody new, you're going to have your own form of problems anyway. Let's realize what happened. How can we learn from it? How can we get that out of the way? Because no longer will that happen because we've gotten that out of the way. That's how I feel about it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Another skill set that certainly in the new book is largely about this, that seems pretty important to your skill set, is negotiating. People see you negotiate episode after episode on the Shark Tank.

[Daymond John]

So what.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What are some things you hope people take away from the book? What makes for a good negotiator? I thought you've really approached this in a unique way. You were giving advice you don't usually hear. So I'd love for you to lay out some of the basics.

[Daymond John]

Yeah, you know, Shark Tank has spoiled people in regards to how they think the theory of negotiation goes. Because, again, some of those pictures can be two hours long, but you only see eight minutes. And it's very simple, hi, Sharks, my name is so forth and so on. And within eight minutes, you have a dealer, you know, and it's very, very, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right when, you know, the reality is the negotiation almost never closes the first time that you speak to somebody. Almost never. And there's three parts to a negotiation. Number one, it is how do you build influence? Whether in the room, that minute on zoom, or whether when people do have that first point of interaction with you, when they pick up their phone and look and research you and they look at your social media, are you able to build influence there? Because they already were kind of on the fence.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's really interesting. So are you saying that the things you put out into the world, the content that you create for your own social media account, is a form of influence, even if you're only followed by your friends?

[Daymond John]

Yeah, very true. I mean, that is, you know, before, you know, we used to, you know, get somebody's card or call their references or, you know, whatever the case. But we're no longer doing that. You know, we're meeting people and we're pulling up who they are as soon as we leave the elevator, you know, so, so, so example, you know, I was in an elevator and, you know, somebody, if somebody said to me, well, Damon, it's 90 seconds in an elevator, how can I build influence in that time. Well, you know, if you said to me, listen, I know you are, never thought I would need to. Here's what I'm doing, you know, and you know, I love to solve these problems for people. And you know what, if you ever want to, you know, have somebody from your team call, I'm willing to do this for you, do that for you, whatever the case is. And you know what, either, you know, I can over provide for you, or we'll just shake hands and, you know, never see each other again. But I appreciate it. Whatever the case is, I'm gonna leave that elevator and I'm gonna probably pull you up. And it's the same as kids. When kids come over to my company to work and we look on their social media media, you know, we look at what they're saying, you know, we look at when they're posting. If you, if you're coming over and you're an accountant and you want to work in my company, well, you know, you got six Tick Tock videos that are popping up every single day and you're not in social media. When then when are you making those videos, you know, and you. So, and we're looking at the things. Are you in? You love charitable organizations. Are you, you know, are you always on there with a smile? Hey, everybody. You know, like we're looking at these things. We're human beings and we're looking at these things. So that's where influence now is. Because no matter what, somebody's going to look at what you're doing, they're going

[Tom Bilyeu]

to look you up, no question. So there was two parts to that influence. That side of things is really powerful. And I think people seem willfully blind or certainly unintentionally blind to how much they're broadcasting about themselves. Then the other part was them making an offer. Hey, look, maybe you never call me, whatever, maybe it doesn't work out, but here are the things that I can do for you. How do you feel about people making that pitch? Because one thing that drives me crazy, I get people coming up to me all the time. Tom, just let me know how I can help you. And my thing is don't make me think of how you can help me. Like that's the first thing you can do. Oh, my God, you sound like me. Yeah. How do you, like, what way actually moves you if somebody comes up and only has 90 seconds to, to give you a reason to go check their Instagram?

[Daymond John]

Yeah. They need to see, they need to, they need to feel like, they can add value in a certain way, and they need to highlight their strengths on how they can bring that to the team. And maybe there's something there, maybe not. But, yes, that happens to me all the time. Hey, man, you know, let me get a job. How can I help you? I don't need that. I don't. If I had all the answers on how you can help me, you know, I'm still not going to look for you. I would have had the answer. I would have had the solution already. So, yeah, I mean, you know, that is. That is the best way people to pitch people is saying, how can I be of value to you? Okay, well, here's what I do. And I know you're in apparel, Damon. You know, you know, I do this or I do that. You know, I'm a paperclip expert on Google. You know, I can do this on Facebook pages, or I'm a great editor, you know, and here's where I can help you with an apparel. I may say my apparel is covered, but I didn't realize that you can do that. You know what? I'll give you a shot at another company that I'm working on. Is this within your. Is this within your, you know, skill set? And you say, yes, no, or indifferent?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, that's huge. Letting somebody know, like, even what you do, I'm always telling people, look, just tell people what you're up to. Tell them what your skill set is. When you find somebody that needs that thing, then it can be a tremendous fit. Like, there's invariably something that. I mean, this is even more true for you because you have such a portfolio, but there are so many different things I'm looking for in sort of abstract areas of the business that if somebody lines up on one of those abstract things and you tell me in an elevator or elsewhere, it's like, oh, shit, okay, I actually do really need that thing. That's super interesting. But if you're just asking me, I don't know what you know. So then it becomes this impossible situation where you're asking me to do work just to, like, possibly have something to do with a random stranger that I actually have no incentive to figure out how we can work together. So, all right, if influence is the first of the three parts of your strategy here with shifting power, what are the other two?

[Daymond John]

Well, the next one is going to be negotiation. And I love the old sayings. I mean, they're around for a reason. You know, it's not what you accept, it's what you Negotiate. And. But people, again, like Shark Tank, you know, they don't realize that the best part of negotiation, what's in it for the other person on other side of the table, because that person has their own challenges. And a lot of people get thrown off a negotiation because they don't ask the right questions and they may not have the amount of empathy they need. You know, if I'm talking to you and you know.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Did you say empathy?

[Daymond John]

Empathy? Yeah, because remember, everybody is, you know, you're negotiating when you're trying to get into the bathroom before your husband and wife. You're trying to tell your child get on the school bus to take you to Chuck E. Cheese on the weekend. Right? So negotiating is something you're doing all day long. But sometimes people don't know the right questions to ask. You know, I've seen people take things that I have said and said, well, you know, he doesn't want to do the deal. But sometimes they don't say, what's in your way? How can I make this more attractive for you? What else can I come back and bring to you? Is there any references that you would like to know? Because I'm telling you, I've done this several times. And by the way, even if we do this, if you have a challenge and I'll find ways to dissolve it fairly quickly, you'll get your money back, whatever the case is. But a lot of people are so transactional and they just want to have the conversation, and that's part of the negotiation process. But however, you know, most deals don't happen. As I said, the first time you see somebody negotiate, but you see somebody or you talk to somebody. But the following part is, how do you nurture that relationship way after the initial contact point? Because that person is either going to recommend you to many people, not recommend you to many people. They may do a deal later on down the road because, you know, they felt that you had empathy. They felt that you knew what you wanted, they felt that you knew your value and your offering. And, and more importantly, you wanted to make sure that they were okay. And, you know, the cost of the barrier entry is nothing with you or easy, and they can take affordable steps with you. And that is where you have to nurture those relationships. So you can do 10 deals after that, or you have that person go on your board or be an ambassador or be a reference or things of that nature.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, that's critical. And so the third part there is how to. How to, because that is really that.

[Daymond John]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The ongoing Deal flow that you get with the different people, if I remember right from the book.

[Daymond John]

Yeah. So it's three parts. It's how do you build influence, how do you negotiate what's in it for the person you're negotiating with? And then how do you nurture that relationship to bring. To bring more value and get more value out of that relationship, whether the negotiation has happened or not.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Damon, to me, this. This is really, man, the three killer pillars to not just shifting power, which in a second, you should walk us through why you called it power shift. But isn't just the key to that, which is already interesting, but it is how you let your successes stack. And one of the things that's so intriguing about your career is that you've been able to branch out into different areas and continue to win, obviously, as an entrepreneur, but now as talent as well as an investor, as a motivational speaker, which we haven't even touched on. So it's. You've really gone into all these different areas. But when I think about the three things that you just outlaid, that is what I talk a lot about. The physics of something like when you get to the place where it can't be reduced anymore and the way that you laid that out, especially nurturing a relationship, because you never know where that is going to go. Having empathy, which is interesting. I don't hear a lot of people talk about that, certainly not in the context of negotiation. It really adds up to something pretty special, which is that it will get better and better and better for you over time. So even if you sort of lost in one deal, if you have a good relationship with them, that is, it's like that loss will pay dividends. And I'm assuming that the loss is just you left some money on the table out of empathy or just not being overly aggressive or whatever the case may be. But now it's like you've got a partner that you can go back to again in the future. Is that sort of one of the core things that you teach young entrepreneurs?

[Daymond John]

I do. I teach them that they're solving a problem and they need to have empathy for everybody on the other side of the table. People want to always feel like you're in their corner. They want to feel like you understand their challenges and you respect and value them. If they're looking at it as you're just a number and. Or they're just a number, then they're not going to want to do necessarily more with you. That's what I find. Of course, there are the exceptions. But having empathy is what I think is the biggest thing that all people should have. And I just think that it makes you a better person and it makes people feel appreciated. People just want to feel appreciated.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So if you're rocking the empathy and you're really asking yourself like, how do I make this a win for the other person? How do you avoid getting taken advantage of? 1, the other person might not be as empathetic as you. Two, they might just outright be going for the jugular. And especially if you're new man, there's. There's so many creative ways to negotiate that a lot of people just don't know, don't understand. What are some principles for how to not be taken advantage of?

[Daymond John]

Yeah, well, first of all, when I'm saying be empathetic, I'm saying that it needs to be a win win for both parties. But I'm not saying to be taken advantage of, but I think what you bring up is a really good point is know where your line is drawn, know what you are willing to deal with or not. Go in the room knowing what you're willing to deal with and stand firm by it and have no problem telling somebody where it's at. You know, you know, some people are going to go for the jugular and that's okay. Maybe they've been trained like that. Maybe they're, you know, they grew up watching too many Wall street movies and that's just what it is, or they're not as mature at that point point in life or just that's what they do. But you can still have empathy for somebody going for the jugular too. You have to find empathy for anybody. Mr. Scrooge still has a heart. There's something, you know, Kevin o' Leary has a heart, believe it or not. But if you're empathetic to him saying, all right, are you a VC that basically says, you know what you need to be out of all your, you know, you need to have your business open and close your investment in seven years, three years. Is that what you need for the projections? Do you need to tranche the money in different ways? Okay, if we do that hard deal of yours, I think I can over provide. Are there some triggers that I can get some bonuses? Because listen, we're going to do it your way. Well, then how are you going to incentivize me?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, dude, I love that you're out there trying to inspire people and motivate them. I think it's critical. And I also think that your advice is real and it's good. And if people take it, their lives will be better. Which is the barometer by which I judge all advice. So, man, keep doing it. I think it is absolutely fantastic. And you know, we're obviously in a super weird time, but your message about no one is coming to save you, but you can do this. You can make the change, you can learn, you can educate yourself no matter how the deck is stacked against you. Like, you got this. I think it's phenomenal, man. And I hope people continue to flock to you and that message. And thanks again for being on the show. Oh, where can people find you? That is the right question.

[Daymond John]

Thank you for all you do. And we got to do this again because the time went by so quickly because we're having a really great conversation. Of course people can find me time. Yeah, people can find me on social media. I'm at the Shark Damon. My name is spelled Damon, like Raymond with a D. And you know what, you can get like my digital curriculums and all that stuff on, you know, and some good nuggets to really get what you want out of [e-mail] so if you want to nail your pitch, go to nail your pitch.com and get some stuff. And then you can find me fighting with Kevin o' Leary every, you know, Friday night. So, you know. So all the best, man. Thank you so much for this time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, for sure man. Thank you guys. If you haven't, be sure to dive into his stuff, read his books. They're incredible. And if you haven't already, subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care everybody. Thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to iTunes, go to Stitcher Rate and review us. That helps us build this community and that is what we are all about right now. Building this community as big as we can to help as many people people as we can deliver as much value as possible. And you guys rating and reviewing really helps with that. Alright guys, thank you again so much. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.

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