HARSH TRUTH About Wealth, Power & Happiness: Life Lessons Everybody Learns Too Late | Tai Lopez PT 2 (Fan Fave)

Summary

Impact Theory Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Harsh Truth About Wealth, Power & Happiness: Life Lessons Everybody Learns Too Late | Tai Lopez PT 2 (Fan Fave)
Host: Tom Bilyeu
Guest: Tai Lopez
Date: April 17, 2026

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Brief Overview

In this highly engaging and multifaceted conversation, Tom Bilyeu and Tai Lopez dive deep into the realities behind wealth, power, free will, happiness, family, genetics, and societal evolution. The episode is a candid exploration of “harsh truths” – insights people often learn too late – spanning economics, psychology, relationships, and business. Filled with memorable stories, practical frameworks, and provocative analogies, this episode unpacks the beliefs, experiences, and data that have shaped both men's approaches to life and success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role of Mentorship and Learning from the Past

[01:13 - 04:52]

• Books as Time Machines:
  Tai likens books to “time machines,” advocating reading as a way to invite the wisdom of historical and modern thinkers into your inner circle. He recommends assembling a “council” of wise mentors—half living and half dead—citing figures like Warren Buffett and Mansa Musa.
• Rejecting “All Answers Within”:
  Tai criticizes the self-help trope that everything you need is inside yourself, arguing instead for the power of learning from others and changing your social circle to elevate your thinking and results.
• Ancestor Wisdom:
  Respect for ancestors and learning from their survival strategies is framed as a fundamental, overlooked advantage.

Tai Lopez [03:07]:
“Change your social circle, change your living and dead advisors and you change your bank account forever.”

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2. Frame of Reference and Perception of Power

[04:52 - 07:16]

• The Importance of Perspective:
  Tom posits that our “frame of reference” is more impactful than genetics, shaping everything from money beliefs to political views.
• Wealth and Power Stigma:
  Tai recounts personal experiences with billionaires, characterizing them as modern “warlords,” and challenges the romanticization of wealth.
• Subjectivity of Reality:
  The discussion touches briefly on simulation theory and the unknowability of objective truths, reinforcing the power of chosen perspective.

Tom Bilyeu [07:37]:
“You have a frame of reference. It is to you what water is to a fish. You’re probably hyper-unaware of it, and yet it controls everything about your life.”

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3. Children, Family, and Happiness

[08:27 - 13:40]

• Should Most People Have Kids?
  Tai resists offering personal family details, arguing for the importance of privacy for children and down-to-earth upbringing (e.g., “raise kids on a farm, not Beverly Hills”).
• Demographic Concerns:
  He aligns with Elon Musk in citing underpopulation and the misalignment of reproduction trends by intelligence/economic capability as existential threats.
• Genetics and Heritability:
  The heritability of both positive traits and mental illnesses is discussed, alongside cultural and economic incentives (and disincentives) for having children.

Tai Lopez [10:08]:
“That’s not good for a kid. Talk about distortion of reality. His reality was like, ‘I have a BMW, but my friends have Ferraris.’ When you have kids, don’t put them in Beverly Hills. Put them on a farm.”

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4. Nihilism, Purpose, and the Nature of Fulfillment

[13:53 - 25:02]

• Mid-life and Post-wealth Nihilism:
  Tai shares stories of young, highly successful mentees who struggle with meaning after achieving financial success.
• Meaning of Having Kids:
  He debates accusations of narcissism (for or against procreation), ultimately concluding that not everything requires exhaustive rational justification.
• Returning to Primitive Roots:
  Tai touts “flow states” from primitive activities (e.g., farming), referencing Csikszentmihalyi’s “Flow” and Freud’s “Civilization and Its Discontents” to argue that immersion and primal experience bring deepest happiness.
• Trade-offs of Civilization:
  Modern “civilized” society brings safety—and concentrated wealth—but results in mass discontent, health issues, and a detachment from primal fulfillment.

Tai Lopez [23:35]:
"Never get too disconnected from pre-civilization. Civilization has made us unhappy... When you have no primitive in your life, you know what it looks like? Looks like America. 60% obesity, 80% out of shape. We eat too much, we walk too little..."

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5. Wealth, Success, and Parenting Correlation

[25:14 - 33:46]

• Patterns of the Wealthy:
  Tai observes that most ultra-wealthy figures (per the Forbes list) had children relatively young and in larger numbers, suggesting at least a strong correlation, if not causation.
• Children as Allies:
  He makes an analogy between the loyalty and “following” of children and social media followers, stating there’s evolutionary benefit to blood-related allies.
• Genetic Legacy:
  Historic references (e.g., Genghis Khan) highlight the enduring power of lineage over ephemeral digital influence.

Tai Lopez [28:34]:
“Wouldn’t it be good to have some of those allies blood related to you?... Families persist.”

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6. Arguments For and Against Having Kids

[33:34 - 39:21]

• Happiness as a Compass:
  Environmental depression in demographics that forgo children is cited as evidence for a pro-child “natural law.”
• Tom’s Hypothesis:
  Tom sees children (and pair-bonding) as the “evolutionarily prescribed path” to fulfillment but cautions that those who opt out must architect other sources of deep connection and societal contribution.

Tom Bilyeu [36:03]:
“Fulfillment has a recipe... You’re going to work very hard to gain a set of skills that matter to you, for whatever reason, that allow you to uplift yourself and other people. We’re a social creature. We need to serve the group.”

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7. Relationship Styles and ‘Know Thyself’

[39:21 - 58:18]

• On Marriage and Mating Styles:
  Tai and Tom explore the biological and cultural underpinnings of monogamy, polygamy, and serial pair-bonding. Societal prescriptions are contrasted with individual (often genetic) inclinations.
• Frequency Dependent Selection:
  Tai explains a game theory-like framework where both “playboys” and “monogamists” coexist, each path offering unique evolutionary logic.
• The ‘Jeremy’ Story:
  Tai tells an illustrative story about a friend whose self-narrative about relationships radically changed based on temperament and experience.
• Key Takeaway:
  Self-awareness about your own “primitive brain” is vital—relationship success is finding congruence with one’s authentic nature.

Tai Lopez [55:50]:
“Know thyself. How’s that a win? Everybody loses, man.”

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8. Finding Relationship Partners: Filtering and Selection

[58:44 - 73:39]

• Personality, Intelligence & Aesthetics:
  Tai describes the complexity of seeking a partner, including the importance of IQ and physical attraction, and how “thick markets” (e.g., Scandinavia for his type) better supply suitable matches.
• Mental Stability:
  He stresses selecting for psychological resilience due to its heritability and impact on family life.
• Cultural Markets:
  The conversation extends to the “mental instability index” of different global regions, with Brazil emerging as a surprisingly “mentally stable” society.

Tai Lopez [66:35]:
“If you have high IQ and high aesthetics, you narrow the pool, teeny... So know thyself.”

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9. Wisdom About Marriage and Society

[73:39 - 84:13]

• Marriage Practices Worldwide:
  Tai highlights Iceland and other Scandinavian countries, where long-term mating often happens without formal marriage, emphasizing that commitment trumps paperwork.
• Physical Health & The Scam of Modern Food:
  The duo critiques corporate-led dietary disasters, urging a return to movement and primal / nomadic diets, referencing anthropology and evolutionary biology.

Tai Lopez [81:27]:
“We don't talk enough about health. Entrepreneurs! Get on a farm. You should drink dairy. People are idiots with dairy...Dairy is the food of the gods.”

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10. Business Strategy, Acquisitions, and the ‘3 Trends’ Philosophy

[85:00 - 94:45]

• Acquisition vs. Building:
  Tai explains why buying established brands (Pier 1, RadioShack, Bodybuilding.com) can shortcut decades of effort.
• Personal Risk Profiles:
  Entrepreneurs must respect their own risk tolerance: high-risk M&A isn’t for everyone.
• Rise of the Individual:
  The third great economic trend, per Tai, is leveraging social media to monetize personal brands, outpacing legacy corporations.
• Practical Advice:
  Start small, build a loyal following, and broaden reach via joint ventures or partnerships with those comfortable in the spotlight.

Tai Lopez [92:39]:
“Become an individual brand. Diversify by joint venturing with three or four others. Know thy risk tolerance... That’s how people should be making money now.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mentorship & Books:

  “He’s dead, bitch. You need a book...It’s a time machine.” – Tai Lopez [01:34]

• On Frame of Reference:

  “You have a frame of reference. It is to you what water is to a fish.” – Tom Bilyeu [07:37]

• On Nihilism:

  “If you want to go nihilistic...nothing matters. So when somebody tries to come on this side and go, ‘why does that matter?’...I just come back to, like, the Amish.” – Tai Lopez [15:15]

• On Marriage:

  “Marriage is an invention of mankind...Homo sapiens are what we call serial monogamists.” – Tai Lopez [22:44]

• On Influence vs. Legacy:

  “Our followers will unfollow us over one thing, but Genghis Khan...0.5% of the world and 8% of Asia, he’s their grandfather.” – Tai Lopez [31:14]

• On Knowing Yourself:

  “Know thyself. How’s that a win? Everybody loses, man.” – Tai Lopez [55:50]

• On Health Fundamentals:

  “Your dad was stuck in the rise of the corporation...thank God that trend’s dying and damn trend number one, governments.” – Tai Lopez [94:31]

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Key Timestamps

• Mentorship, Books, and Advisors: [01:13 - 04:52]
• Frame of Reference/Perception of Wealth: [04:52 - 07:16]
• Kids & Family Privacy: [08:27 - 13:40]
• Nihilism & Primitive Flow: [13:53 - 25:02]
• Children, Wealth & Legacy: [25:14 - 33:46]
• Why Have Kids? (debate): [33:34 - 39:21]
• Marriage, Monogamy, and “Know Thyself”: [39:21 - 58:18]
• Filtering Partners & Market Selection: [58:44 - 73:39]
• Marriage Traditions Worldwide: [73:39 - 84:13]
• Business Acquisitions, Personal Brand: [85:00 - 94:45]

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Final Takeaways

• Prioritize evolutionary and personal truths over societal scripts;
• Cultivate mentors both living and dead;
• Understand your frame of reference – it colors everything;
• Family, properly understood, is both a deep source of meaning and a strategic advantage;
• “Know thyself” — your risk tolerance, mating strategy, goals, and needs;
• Do not neglect your physical health and foundational routines;
• In business, leverage the trend of the individual, acquire rather than always building, and always be prepared to adapt.

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This episode vividly illustrates that the “answers” to happiness, wealth, and fulfillment are nuanced, context-dependent, and always evolving. Both Tai and Tom exemplify a willingness to challenge convention, examine their biases, and embrace the power of self-knowledge and adaptability.

Transcript

[Tom Bilyeu]

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[Tom Bilyeu]

And now Part two with Tai Lopez. It's interesting that spills into whether we're defining free will as deterministic or whether. Because you can.

[Tai Lopez]

We need to have Sam Harris on here. Yeah. Do you have a time machine in your. You have a lot of cool tech things here. I want to go collect Einstein. You know, sometimes people argue with me, Tyler, you don't need books to become wealthy. You just go out and do stuff. And I ask them, do you think it's good to have smart people in your inner circle? Mentors? Oh, yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tai Lopez]

Change your social circle, change your income. Okay. Do you think Aristotle was a smart guy? Would it be good for him to be in your inner circle? Hell, yeah. He's dead, bitch. You need a book. So I don't really like books. It's just the only. It's a time machine. So I don't know, it would be amazing if we had a council of. I call it the council of 12. You know, you need 12 wise people in your life. The president has 15 the cabinet. So you could call it the wise 15. I tell people, the second you start making wealth, you find your cabinet. And in that 15 people. You should have both the living and the dead. So you need a lawyer. I was talking. I got one of my. Got my second student who came from nothing, who I think is going to become a billionaire, who follows me. He's living in Puerto Rico. Various reasons in Puerto Rico, but I told him, where's your family? Office of 15 wise advisors. He doesn't have them yet. I said, make sure half of them are alive and half of them are dead. And so sometimes to create wealth, you have to imagine, what if Warren Buffett was sitting in this room? What if Rockefeller was sitting in this room? What if. What's the guy, the African wealthiest person? Masu. Masu or something African. Look him up. I always forget his. I grew up in the damn West. They don't teach you the full story. No, he's a dead. He's dead. Look up. Rich as African in history. So I imagine I have the wisest Asian, you know, mogul in history and the wise. Yeah, Muza Musa. They said maybe he was the wisest wealthiest person if I had all those people in my business. Every time I make a decision, you ask both the living, maybe a couple lawyers, accountants, mentors. But you also ask the dead, am I making the right move? And you'd be amazed at that simple mental exercise which anybody can do, how you start becoming wealthier from that. Instead, people go inward too much. I don't like that movement. You know, all the answers are within and happiness is from within. Well, that's a misleading sentence. Like if I want to learn. Let's say I only knew English and I want to learn Spanish, is all Spanish within me. If I want to live in China, is all Chinese within me and I go inward. No, you actually have to go outward and find another person who speaks Chinese. And the best thing you can do is go live in China and it rubs off on you, your social circle. So change your social circle. Change your living and dead advisors and you change your bank account forever. People don't like to do it because that's what I was saying. Society's become too in too much into free will where I can figure it out myself. No, go back to your ancestors. They were wise. They survived 10,000. We're all the product of 10. I call it the whisper of 10,000 generations. You know, what did your great grandfather do to make it? I don't think we study them enough. I like that religion in the east, they, they, they, they go to their. They say the Chinese worship their ancestors. I don't know that that's true. They respect their ancestors. You should go visit the gravesite of your grandma and grandpa and great grandparents once a year and contemplate what lessons they had for you. They are you, you are them. It's very interesting, so, it's interesting so

[Tom Bilyeu]

in a single sense I can, I can pinpoint where I think you are going to drive yourself crazy with trying to predict the world might have already happened. And that is, I think that looking back, I think that the part of you that is malleable, that creates your frame of reference. The frame of reference is so much more important to understand than your genetics. That's my single sentence. And if you spend time trying to learn from your ancestors and all that, I think it will be fascinating and I think people will enjoy it because there is something about knowing about your past, but I think it's it. It is going to be because even your contemplation of your past will be driven through your frame of reference. And so, like, when I look at. Never did I think I would start talking about sort of global issues or political issues. And yet here I find myself because the, the. When people say that politics is downstream of culture, what they mean is that politics is downstream of frame of reference. And culture is a. A huge part of what shapes your frame of reference. But it really is just a game of frame of reference. And if you look at the world from the position that all money is evil, power is a dirty word. Then when you see somebody that has power, you will naturally assume that they got there through either intellectual violence or actual physical violence.

[Tai Lopez]

That's how rich they are. The richest is mostly. A wide friend once told me, first hyper rich kid that I knew came from nothing. He said, tyler, all empires are built by blood, sweat and violence. The top Forbes list, the top 10 people they have killed before. I promise you they have killed. There is bodies. You ever read the story of Las Vegas where a lot of money was made in America? There's a lot. That movie Casino where Joe Pesci's taking a dude out of a trunk of a car and burying him alive. Wasn't that Pesci? Or was that De Niro? Was Pesci, right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tai Lopez]

Oh, that. That's a true story. There's. There's. I always think it's funny when people admire billionaires. I learn from billionaires. But I'm in business right now with two guys on the Forbes list. And I've been. I know many of them. They are warlords. They are warlords. Does that mean that through their own selfishness they can help the world? Yes. I'm still capitalistic in that sense.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But all I want to say is the. That is your frame of reference playing out. And so you and I look at that. You're going to see what you.

[Tai Lopez]

But I didn't have that frame till I did. Did business with them. Then I'm like, oh, this man's definitely killed before.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Such is the nature of a frame of reference. It really changes. That's what I'm saying. It's the part of malleability versus the.

[Tai Lopez]

But all of life might be a simulation. All our memories might be. I might not have ever done impact theory four years ago. It might just be an implanted memory.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I run that thought experiment all the time. It's very helpful. So I'll wrap this segment up with, with the following statement. Dear anybody at home. You have a frame of reference. It is to you what water is to a fish. You're probably hyper, unaware of it, and yet it controls everything about your life. You're going to make decisions. Einstein said that the most important decision anybody will ever make is whether they live in a friendly or a hostile universe. So what he's saying is it's not objectively one way or the other, but you're going to decide and then you're going to see that decision echoed through everything. So be very thoughtful about what you decide to believe. In this case, about money, power, seduction, whatever. All right. Speaking of seduction, women, I want to talk about Tai Lopez and women 1. Are you married?

[Tai Lopez]

Nope.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Are you going to get married?

[Tai Lopez]

Not sure I'm a marrying kind of guy.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay. Do you have kids?

[Tai Lopez]

Maybe.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Interesting. So out of curiosity, without revealing the yes or no, obviously everybody listening assumes that means yes. But setting that aside is not answering that. Purely about safety.

[Tai Lopez]

I think some things don't need to be part of the show.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But I would understand not your show.

[Tai Lopez]

I'm talking about my show. I don't think some things don't need to be part of my social media. I think for many reasons it can be safety. It can also be wanting. People should want their kids to grow up in a down to earth grounded place. I lived in Beverly Hills where everybody's parents are famous and the kids are part of the fame. It doesn't end well. I remember no joke, a kid telling me I was walking, I was going for a jog outside my house in Beverly Hills. I'm going, and a guy pulls up, he's like, hey, I'm a follower of yours and I live on the same street as you talking. And he was like 16. And he's like, yeah, I've been dealing with a lot of struggles. And his struggle was his parents gave him a BMW and all of his friends had Ferraris. And I said, I don't want my kid. That's not good for a kid. Talk about Distortion of reality. His reality was like, he was kind of like, dog, I'm trying to make more money. And I'm like, why? And he's like, dude, I don't fit in in school. And like, you know, he was trying to. He was kind of misquoting the wealth things like he was reading. You know, it's like, I need to change my social circle. I'm dealing with 16 year olds. Some of my friends only have BMWs, but some kids in school have Ferraris. And those are the real thinkers and think and grow rich. And I want to be like them. And I was like, whoa, when you have kids, don't put them in Beverly Hills. Put them on a farm.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That I actually hear that. But I still don't understand why not admit. And so this comes back to. Tate was the first person I saw that was like, I'm not going to answer the question. I think he's since like just answered it. I don't know. I don't follow him closely. And then I heard you. Same thing that you don't even want to say one way or the other. Having them grow up on a farm, never telling people how many who, where, all that, that I understand, but not wanting to acknowledge whether you have them or don't.

[Tai Lopez]

Well, it can also be part of what the mother asked for.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay, fair enough.

[Tai Lopez]

It's like, so for me, it's also, whenever you have kids, you got two sides of the story. So for me, look, man on kids. What I tell people is most people should have kids. A big problem in the world is people who can't have, can't support kids are having a lot of them. And the nations and societies that would produce productive citizens are having none. And that is an existential crisis for humanity. Elon Musk says it's the biggest threat is underpopulation. That doesn't mean you know, you have people. Poor person in a village having 12 kids and all the kids are malnourished. They should have less kids. But there's a genetics, for example. We need intelligent people in this world. Okay, not only intelligent, you need other facets.

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[Tai Lopez]

But that's a very genetic thing. And so you ever seen the movie Idiocracy? What happens if only cuckoo people have kids? Also, mental illness is extremely heritable. Things like schizophrenia, even anxiety, some of these are off the chart. Way more than 50% heritable. Narcissism, MPD. A lot of these are highly heritable. Almost as heritable as height. You know, it's a set of genes. There's no one gene, but there's a set of genes. So we need people who are stable having kids. But now Karl Marx was right about one thing. As we move up Maslow's hierarchy of needs to the top and we're all seeking our esoteric expression of ourself. Like I said the artist cutting using their body as a cheese grater in a New York City art. That's the express that person maybe they shouldn't have kids. But we need people at the top of Maslow hierarchy of needs also having kids. It's good. It's important.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay, give people your best argument. So I'm not having kids. You maybe don't have kids. Why do you think people should have kids beyond population or is that the reason?

[Tai Lopez]

Oh well look, here's my nihilistic side. Somebody at call I. I do a lot of private mentoring now people pay me a hundred grand or a million dollars to a million dollars to talk to me eight times a year. Some of the biggest influencers you all know, I won't say their names are in my program. And one of the big ones asked me ty, do you ever struggle with nihilism? He's made all the money. He's in his twenties. He made eighteen and a half million profits so far this year. So make 25 mil. Yeah, 23 was a good life. Lives in a zero tax jurisdiction. Keeps all of it, adds more money. And so he's now moved up hierarchy of needs. He bought him food, shelter, water, love. You have all this and the safety's next and then love. And now he's up at the top. And he's becoming nihilistic. He's like, I don't know what I live for, dude. It's like, I wake up and it's like, I can have almost any woman. He's a good looking guy. I can have any girl a lot. So girls aren't that interesting because they seem too easy to get anymore. And so that, my nihilistic side is, what does anything matter? Okay? So some people say, why do I want to have kids? Okay? And if I give the answer, well, we're kind of programmed to have kids, and we'll in general will be happier and society will turn out better if people who can have healthy kids have healthy kids. And they go, yeah, but it's just like, it's so narcissistic. You're just giving birth to another one of you. And how narcissistic. But I'm like, couldn't I say the inverse? Isn't it narcissistic by definition to not have kids, to focus on myself? I mean, if you want to go nihilistic, nothing. The end in nihilism means nothing matters. So when somebody tries to come on this side and go, why does that matter? And they get nihilistic, I'm like, but by definition, you don't even. Why does it matter that I even answer somebody, why does it. Why does your mastery matter? Why does it matter? If we improve the world, we improve the world. So Homo sapiens get better. But 100 million species we've wiped off, the better humans get, oftentimes, not always, we wipe other species off the planet. So you're talking about the frame. So your frame, let's say, or somebody with your frame is like, I can improve the world with power. But that's just your Homo sapien world. You might be wiping out a species of beetles. You know, you might be wiping out a species of highly intelligent whales. So I don't know if we go too far down nihilism. I just come back to, like, the Amish. They don't have to know why everything is. They just go, because I'm a human. A monkey doesn't have to dissect why he likes bananas. Just let. I was in Kuala Lumpur about a month ago. I bet the monkeys get smart ones tricked me. I had a whole stack of them. One monkey comes up to you, and I got on video and kind of like, hey, buddy, they don't say. They don't talk. Of course, another monkey came from behind, took all my damn bananas. So humans, we're not we're 98% same DNA as chimpanzees. We're 50% the same as bananas. We're 70% the same as flies. So when I get nihilistic and I try to dissect myself and just go, well, honestly, nothing matters. And we're all stardust. And we know at some point we all disappear, we also know we might not even be real. There are many very intelligent people think we might be a smarter version of ourselves. Video games. We are. We are Grand Theft Auto. My friend is the one of the main guys who built Grand Theft Auto. Some people used to say, my house over there that he put. I used to get a lot of comments, your house is in Grand Theft Auto. And I reached out to him, I'm like, did you put me in Grand Theft Auto? He never would answer, but we are Grand Theft Auto, man. And then it's funny, we play video games, but we might be a video game too. It's like, you know, like when you see yourself in a mirror, there's too many mirrors. It keeps reflecting back and back and goes infinity. That might be us. We might be a video game of a species with a video game that is the speed. A video game of a higher species that it never ends. There's also. I was talking to chatgpt the other day and I was going to. You know, sometimes if you look at the world, I'm not a flat earther, but flat earthers have this thing that we're like in a hard dome kind of thing. I'm like. I asked ChatGPT, is it possible that everything we know, we are one atom inside an entire other universe, but we think we're. And Chat GPT has long winded answer, but some people think that that might be true. We kind of look like that. It's almost like a, you know, it's a. You can go down this. That's why I like a farm. When I'm on a farm, I have a farm where actually farm with horses. I have two farms, two organic farms. I have one talk about make the world a better place. I buy rundown, chemically abused farmland and I improve it. That's my give back to the world. It's important. And I have a farm that I use tractors, got big John Deere's here and then about two hours away. I have a farm in the middle of Amish community. And on that farm, I farm with horses. I plow with horses. You ever read the book Flow by Mikhail Cheek? Sent me high. You should read that book. Okay. I met him before he used to. He came to my basketball court in Beverly Hills. You know, Flo says the optimal life is like the sailor. Like, you forget what you're thinking about, you just are doing it. Like the sailor is pulling, the wind is blowing and your boat is flying and you're like pulling the ropes. But it becomes the unconscious. That's the happiest state of a human. When I'm on my farm and you have these big horses. I have big Belgian horses. I have. Sometimes I'll put six of them together and you pull the rein. You're giddy up, gee haw. And they pull. It's the most Zen thing ever. I'm right there. They're so big that I don't think about. Let me check my phone. Because you make one mistake. I've seen people get killed with horses. I saw an Amish guy once get kicked by a big horse in the chest. Like a cartoon. He shot through the air. It was insane. I was like a cannon. He got shot out of a cannon. So I'm pulling the horses and I'm just there in the moment. I'm in flow. And so I think that Freud was right, like Karl Marx. There's a book, my favorite book is called Civilization and its Discontents. And so when we think about should we have kids and should we not have kids and what's the purpose and should we change the world or make money? At the end of the day, what's better than all of that is just flow. And it needs to be something primitive that you're doing. Some people feel it by going camping. Some people feel it by hunting. Some people feel it with art or music. Playing the. I play the piano. Sometimes you get into flow. The more important than all the things we talked about, both you and I like to make money. Thing we do, we justify it in various ways. And maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but never get too disconnected from pre civilization. Civilization has made us unhappy. You know, it's funny, when I was listening to you earlier, you said something, I'll try to remember. You said there was two poles. There was like the poet. No, no, there was like the mat. You wanted to be conqueror. Yeah, you wanted to win. But yet, you know, society is like. You get married, you ask them about marriage. Marriage is an invention of mankind. None of your aunts, most of your ancestors, didn't get married. What do you mean, got married? You think they went to a church house 10,000 years ago and went to a judge? There was no governments. People bonded and people had humans. Homo sapiens are what we call serial monogamists. So there was monogamy 10,200,000 years ago. But we were uncivilized. And what Freud said in literally the most immaculate set of pages I've ever read, and I've read many things, is civilization is discontent. It's the second chapter and he says it's a trade off. By becoming civilized, we decrease the chance that your next door neighbor would get envious of your place. And you wake up and he hits you overhead of club and takes this house. So you've increased your safety, but you've done it at the expense of your primitive side. And when you have no primitive in your life, you know what it looks like? Looks like America. 60% obesity, 80% out of shape. We eat too much, we walk too little, we overstimulate our brain too much. You know, we don't fast. We have 24, seven, everything we need. We overuse the dopamine parts of our brain. TikTok's the ultimate drug dealer in mankind's history. They're literally drug dealers. And you can see it on machines. Human attention span has dropped to five seconds. That's now less than a goldfish. So animals have been less dopamine hijacked than us. All of that civilization, Civilization, civilization, civilization. Money is part civil. There was no money before. You know why? There was no wars long ago. There was battles, but there was no wars. Because there was no civilization with large governments. There was no billionaires before. You know why? Because you didn't have any tools. One man could out hunt another man by double. But now 10 men on the Forbes list look it up. They have more wealth than the bottom 4 billion people in the world. Is that good or bad? I don't think in good or bad. But there's a trade off. We're a highly civilized world. And one of the things you trade off with civilization is high concentration of wealth, which is great if you know how to make money like you and I do. We get to be in the elite. But the downside of that is there's revolts. There's revolts against the wealthy. And it happens now sometimes. I don't know if you ever get. Do you ever see someone comment eat the rich? Comment on your stuff? Comment on my stuff. We have to think about that. I live in Scandinavia a lot. It has a better. What's called Ginny index or Gini index. Some people put it up.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's a coefficient.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah, it's Basically like Philippines is like one of the worst. It's the disparity between the ultra wealthy and the ultra poor. I live in Norway is basically like the best. Or Copenhagen, Denmark park. You have more. And there's a lot of good things to be said about it. And there's real. There are billionaires, but. So I don't know, I'm. You could say I am a bipolar wealthy person in the sense that sometimes I like the civilization which includes money, but I also like going to the cabin and having the horses.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, help me connect that to. Because originally I was looking for your best, like kids. So why, why have kids? That was a question that said kids.

[Tai Lopez]

Because you were made to have kids and that should be a sufficient reason.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Just from a genetic standpoint, you are programmed.

[Tai Lopez]

I think I could go way deeper.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And there will be some sort of psychological punishment.

[Tai Lopez]

Absolutely.

[Tom Bilyeu]

If you don't.

[Tai Lopez]

The most I, I read, I don't know if this is true. What I read was the. In the United States, the class of people experiencing the highest levels of dissatisfaction are women who did not give birth ever in their life between 45 and 55. Because, you know, by age 30, a woman has about 8% of their viable eggs of their life still alive or still viable. I should say by age 50, the average woman has zero viable. Now, men don't experience that level of depression because like Al Pacino just had a kid at 70. What? Look up Pacino. He just had a, I just saw. He had. With a 29 year old. He just had an 83. He's 83. 83. So men, wow. Some people say, well, why are you picking on women? Well, women are on. Nature doesn't give a shit about politics and being woke. Nature just goes, there's the rules, I don't care. And so when I see that, I feel like nature leaves clues. So I'm going, wait a second. Okay, that's, that's, that's a major clue when a whole class of people experience high levels of depression. The way I think about life, super simple is there's happiness is your compass. So you, you want to go north. And when you wake up depressed every day now there is biological kind of genetic depression, but most people experience environmental depression. It's telling you you're going the wrong direction, damn it. So as a society, if you see a large group of people experiencing depression, you ask what are they doing? And you go the other way. I also for wealth, I don't know why. You know, the Forbes list is better than a Harvard mba. I once tried to get a Harvard mba. They were accepting. And then they're like, you don't have an undergrad degree. And I'm like, bitch, I'm like the most Googled person in the world at the time. I'm like, what are you talking about? You're going to let me in marketing school? I have kids who follow me from Harvard. They're like, our professors, pull up your videos. But Harvard wouldn't let me in because they got a rule that doesn't make sense. You got to have an undergrad degree. Well, I discovered in my anger that there's a better Harvard mba. It's called the Forbes list. There's a real time list. It updates every 10 seconds. And I begin to pull the list up now. Forbes list, real time. So you just look there. And I start to look for patterns. Like I said, there's a pattern. Women 45 to 55 who could have had children that didn't. Extremely high level of depression, if you believe that science. So I go here and I got Elon Musk. I got Bernard Al Nalt from Louis Vuitton. I got Bezos, Amazon, Ellison. I call him the anonymous billionaire. He built it with software. Buffett, Zuckerberg, Gates, Larry Page. I know the ninth guy, Steve Ballmer. That's the richest guy I know. Look, he's at 110. Wow. Sergey Brin, the Google guys. And I started to go, what do these men all have in common? So if I'm asking myself a question, you asked about having kids. All these mofo, for the most part, 80% of them had a lot of kids before age 30. Now I posted this online and people go, you don't understand the difference between correlate, you know, correlation and causation. I'm like, you don't think I know the difference between causation and correlation? What are you talking about? I not only know about it, but I've spent a decade studying it. I'm not sure that is just correlated. I think it's causative when you see things at that level. Elon Musk. How many kids did Elon Musk have before? 30. I think he had like six kids before he was like 32. And now he's at 11 kids. It doesn't seem to be hurting him. It doesn't seem to. Now can I prove it's causative? That the reason he's the wealthiest man in the world is. Yeah, no, of course not. And it's nothing. Is that causative? Unless you're an idiot. It's not the straight line causation of him, but it certainly didn't hurt him. And so I began to look and I meet a lot of guys, including myself, where we're tricked by the machine. The machine is classroom education and low independent thinking. I believe in the rise of the individual, you must think. And so I believed as an entrepreneur that having kids would distract me from making wealth. But I should have just gone to the Forbes list. It's a free Harvard MBA Shit. It didn't affect any of these guys. It didn't. By the way, Bill Gates is number seven. Bill Gates is the best moneymaker in modern history. If he hadn't given away, he owed 54% of Microsoft. He gave most of his shares away to charity. He didn't give cash away, he gave shares. If he had held onto them, he'd have $1.2 trillion right now. Microsoft's about 2 point. Let's pull up the market cap of Microsoft Things. 2.4 trillion last time I checked. So anyway, Bill Gates had a ton of kids young. So I can argue this from many dimensions. I can say the most depressed people do the opposite. So I want to do the opposite of them, I mean, are depressed. So I want to do the opposite. I can. If my goal is money mastery status, I go, well, all the dudes with money mastery status, I can't prove it's causative, but it's certainly correlated. So it's a good bet to make and I think it's logical. So I kind of gave the reverse engineer way. I gave the kind of overt engineer. But let's take logic for a second. You're a social media influencer. We have followers, right? You got a lot of followers. I got a lot of followers. Isn't that just like children? We have a group of people who ally themselves with us. They follow your Instagram, they follow your stuff. They in, they do things that we do, they listen to us. Isn't that like a father? So as I told you, nature laughs last. I meet people who go, I'm not going to be a father yet. They're social media. You are a father. You, Tom Bailey, you are a father. Now we take this a little further. Wouldn't it be good to have some of those allies blood related to you? Yes, it would be. Because one thing we know is that you're less likely to be betrayed by family. There's two longest running institutions in human modern history. One's the military. The Greek army has been running for thousands of years. There's still a Greek army, the second longest running business in the world. You go to France, There's a restaurant that I went to. It's family owned since the 1500s. Whoa. So families persist. We don't, you know. Do you know how many geniuses were related to each other? Erasmus Darwin. These people are related cousins. So your will to power that you have, Tom, which is to have a positive effect on the world, to use the tools you have, wealth, reach, followers, will also be very logically and efficiently accomplished with your own children. In fact, pull this crazy thing up. Pull up the woman and man, there's a millionaire. This. This fascinates me. They had 20 kids this year, blood related. She took 20 eggs. They took 20 eggs out of her. There it is. Mom had 20 babies in one year by surrogates, and she spent $67,000, I think a month on 16 nannies. But the millionaire is actually a very intelligent millionaire. They planned it. So he takes his sperm, she takes her eggs out, they stick it in. 20 surrogates. They had 20 kids at the same time. It's actually a very efficient way to have kids. They're gonna have a hundred some. I don't know what the dude did to end up in prison, but a lot of people would laugh at this. But let's think logically for a second. Genghis Khan, largest empire ever is the Mongol Empire. Not the Roman, not the West. The east is understudied because we all went to damn western schools. So mongol horde, potentially 1% of the world. He's their grandfather. He's had a tremendous effect. You talk about having an effect, having social media followers. Our followers will unfollow us over one thing, but Genghis Khan. Yeah. You could see 8%. Yeah. This one says 0.5% of the world and 8% of Asia. He's their grandfather. I read seven. You want a will to power, my friend, but.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So what's your north Star here? I'm trying to anchor myself around why you want people to have kids. So we've got population is good for the population. We've got genetics want you to have kids, and therefore you should.

[Tai Lopez]

Personal happiness.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay, what's the feedback loop of personal happiness?

[Tai Lopez]

You mean why is personal happiness important? Or why.

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, no, why? How's it related to kids?

[Tai Lopez]

Anytime you do what your genes built are built for, you're happier. I. It's almost. The only way you can do it is to hijack it. So, for example, the food system hijacks it. We're happier when we get some salt, a little bit of fat, a little bit of carbs, and a little bit of, you know, protein. We're not happy. That's why keto will never take off. Because we'll be somewhat unhappy with no easily digestible carbs. Okay, so basically, I'm just saying we need to all get over ourselves and just do what's obvious that we're here for. And I said, I think your will to power. And it's funny, you're high on will to power, which is mastery and mating. Kids will be good for you. You have a good kid. You have good kids. I think maybe things happen for a reason. Maybe I can make. I'm not trying to make a persuasive thing because I don't always think you persuade adults. What I would ask you to do is first, you're a creative man. Your wife ain't that old. Still can have kids. Think about it. You think Elon Musk has a lot of power? He got 11 kids. He keeps popping them out. He had two. He had two in the last 12 months.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. It's interesting.

[Tai Lopez]

Is it possible he knows something me and you don't know? We're not as successful as this guy.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Is it possible he knows something?

[Tai Lopez]

Of course.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'm sure he knows many things that we don't know. Certainly he knows many things I don't know. I can speak from experience, but I will say that I think it's a very complicated bag. But I'll give now my best argument why I think people should have kids.

[Tai Lopez]

Why don't you give the one? And why they shouldn't. Because you're not having kids.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I don't think there is. What's the opening line? Every unhappy. Every happy family same. Every unhappy family is unhappy in their own way. So I think the default answer should be, you should have kids. If you're. If you're uncertain, have kids. If you're sure you don't want kids, fair enough.

[Tai Lopez]

Convictions are greater enemies of the truth than lies.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Tai Lopez]

That's Nietzsche for you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So I would say strong convictions loosely held is the way to think about that statement. If you don't have convictions, you won't be able to take action. But if you're unwilling to change your

[Tai Lopez]

mind, why not just hypotheses all the time. Cool.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I usually speak in hypotheses. So here's my hypothesis on why most people should have kids. Ultimately, all you're trying to do is modulate your neurochemistry. Life is ultimately about how you feel about yourself when you're by yourself, but you are having a biological experience. And if you don't acknowledge that your brain works in a certain way, you will never be able to predict what makes you happy and what doesn't make you happy. And that's a stand in for fulfillment. Fulfillment is the only emotional state I know that can survive something like grief. So it is the positive mindset that I think people should aim for. Fulfillment has a recipe. That recipe is very simple. You're going to work very hard to gain a set of skills that matter to you for whatever reason that allow you to uplift yourself and other people. We're a social creature. We need to serve the group. So if you do that, you will have a resilient sense of well being, that you have lived your life well. So that just for mental health is why I think people should head down an evolutionarily prescribed path. Kids are the evolutionary prescribed path. Also, depending on how you're neurologically hardwired, I would say we're also the prescribed, the evolutionarily prescribed path for most people in most situations, not all. And it does become context dependent. But for most is going to be long term pair bonding. We are a species that falls right in the middle. You can judge by testicular size of the male. If you look at like gorillas have small, teeny tiny.

[Tai Lopez]

That's because they beat everybody up.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Exactly. So one guy has all the kids. Exactly. So we know that males fall in the middle. So. But we are, like you said, serial monogamy. Okay. So that's my best argument for kids. So people now have heard the both. We're both, I think, pushing people roughly in the same direction. If you don't want to have kids, I don't think anybody should. If you don't want to. But you have to compensate for the fact that now nature's easiest path, what your brain is optimized for, you're taking off the table as a way to reach fulfillment. You can still achieve fulfillment without having kids. It just becomes instead of trying to serve a larger group. Sorry. Instead of trying to serve a smaller group, which is easier for people, the unit of the family, you're now trying to serve a larger group, which is society. Now society will come and go like social followers. Sometimes they follow you, sometimes they don't. They can turn against you. It is what it is. There's no sense of deep connection. There's a profound hard wiring. Where my parents could have been evil and I would still be more interested in them than the next person. It just is what it is. So that's the four against is if you don't want them, by all means don't. But just make sure that you address fulfillment somehow or you're going to be profoundly unhappy. Now, I want to go back to where we started, which was women. What's. You said that you're not the marrying type. I would love to understand because you're so thoughtful about like, well, this is a big part of this is genetics. So when you say you're not the marrying type, is that psychological frame of reference where you've built values and beliefs around it, or is it, I don't produce enough vasopressin to get the bond

[Tai Lopez]

that I need, Right? Both. I, I think, Look, I agree. Where I agree with you is people are different. As I said, fds, frequency dependent selection. So nature kind of looks, if there's too many people having kids, it wants a few of them to not have kids kind of thing. So you could have warriors in a tribe that don't mind dying because they don't have kids at home. I'll give you an example. I was reading Nobel prize winner Mandela, Nelson Mandela. He grew up in Africa. It's not Western.

[Tom Bilyeu]

One of my heroes, okay?

[Tai Lopez]

His dad had five wives. There was a village, five villages, five little huts apart from each other. It's funny when men have more than one wife. Don't put them all in one house. A Mormon girl who grew up with Mormon. She had, she has 38 brothers and sisters in Utah. She told me this. She's like, they all fight with each other. But Nelson Mandela grew up in a group where his dad would spend like one week in his hut. And he grew up to be a Nobel prize winner. I think a lot of things that we think in the Western world are prescribed by God. They're not prescribed by God. But now he didn't have a thousand women necessarily. Now if you go to Mubarak the bloodthirsty, who had the most children that are counted in Morocco, he had roughly 700 boys. They didn't count the girls back then. He's like, I don't give a shit about the girls. Yeah. He used to sit on a throne of skulls. Very intimidating. Some people go, I met a guy, which I was like, die, man. I went, these guys called me in for a business meeting to negotiate with me. And they took me in there and it was a skyscraper and we're all in suits. And I was all intimidated. I was like, well, at least they didn't have a. They didn't have the heads of the men they had killed last week on the. You need to do. Can I come in next time. Can you put some skulls under here?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tai Lopez]

So I can pretend I'm Mubarak Lopez, the bloodthirsty. Anyway, he had 700 sons. But in general, men have not had a thousand concubines. I mean, they say Solomon in the Bible was supposed to be the wisest man in history. We had a lot of wives. Yeah, a thousand wives. I think 10,000 concubines or 2,000 or whatever. But in general, it's been more like Nelson Mandela. Right. Small but not Western. Now, there's been many people who just had one husband. I mean, one male and one female and one set of kids. But I think I try to go, what is society inventing? And I ignore that. And what is society not inventing? I think society's not inventing that people want to have kids. I think that's in my primitive nature. So a simple thing to do is build your life around the primitive, just control it 20%. So I think if you go 100% primitive, you know, you'll end up dead one way or another.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, so from a primitive perspective, though, the reason that I said that some of this is context dependent is, as far as I know in the evolutionary literature, that basically what you end up getting, you get polygamy when you have one man that's capable of taking care of a lot of women. And when. When you have that, it's because you have a high Ginny coefficient. So you have people that have a lot and you have people that have very little. And so the people that have a lot, you're better off being the fifth wife of somebody extraordinarily wealthy than you are being the only wife to somebody who is.

[Tai Lopez]

But that's not quite true. That's that there's a lot of stupid books out there. If you go to the people like, like a Dr. Buss that wrote that textbook for Harvard. I've had, you know, the Yanamomo Indians, they're still a hunter gatherer tribe. I was talking to Dr. Helen Fisher. She's also, by the way, the chief scientist for Tinder. She has the most data on love of any human in history. She has all the data. She spent time with the Yanamomo. There's. They're not. It's not that there's a low. The Jenny coefficient is healthy there. It's only in farming societies for one

[Tom Bilyeu]

man with men that don't have access to women?

[Tai Lopez]

No, because some men will take a woman that's been had by another man

[Tom Bilyeu]

at the same time.

[Tai Lopez]

No, after when the. When the main guy's done with her. It happens all the time. In fact I was reading an interesting book. There's a book called why We Love by Dr. Helen Fisher on the subject. She has a story there. There was a woman who had 18 lovers. They would go and sneak off.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Hold on, the math isn't adding up. So if you have a society that's roughly, roughly 50, 50 and you have one man at any has more than one wife, even if only temporarily, there will be periods of time where there are men who simply don't have access to. Absolutely full woman.

[Tai Lopez]

Absolutely.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So. Well, I don't know about the Anamamu tribe well enough. I cannot speak to that.

[Tai Lopez]

But that does happen. And that happens in society right now.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes, for sure. But typically what you end up getting. So take a culture where it's celebrated that the elite men have five wives.

[Tai Lopez]

Whatever.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You are going to create the surplus male problem. So you're gonna have.

[Tai Lopez]

But in the Yanamomos there was no marriage. So the alpha might have had Susie, but Susie simultaneously might be bonding with George, the beta.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay, so what are the not so black and white. Here's the knock on consequence that that appears to me again, I don't know anything about this tribe. And so if they are the miraculous

[Tai Lopez]

other ones, you can look at yacht many. You're confused. So let me just say Hunter Gatherer is 300000 years ago to about 20000 years ago. Rise of agriculture, rise of militaries, rise of governments. Rise of one man being able to amass large fortunes through better tools. Okay, so are we talking which time are we talking? We still have most of the genes. Are we talking the 300,000? The two 300,000 to the last 20.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think the argument that if I were to lay out each side mine is. It's context dependent. So we need to know the time periods we're talking about or we are these people genetically.

[Tai Lopez]

No, genetically we're the hunter gatherers.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay, so for you this is again born of genetics. So born of genetics, what's the thesis? Some men will be happy with multiple wives and other men will just have to deal with the fact that they have no wives.

[Tai Lopez]

Frequency independent selection. There will be lower risk taker men that'll be. They may want more than one woman, but it's a risk to go after more than one woman. Both for surplus. If you focus More on one woman, she's less likely to, to leave you for another Alpha men. So men have developed tremendous, you know, now they call it Alpha Beta. That's a wrong way to think about it. It's more frequency dependent selection. You're going to have some men that are high risk takers, so they're going to go out, try to monopolize five, 10 women. That takes more risk because for example, when you're with woman number eight, woman number two is on her own. And women sometimes decide they want a pair bond and then that Alpha men and that sometimes alpha men take care of the babies of Betamin. They're teaching now that beta men are always taking care of the Alpha's child. They don't know any science. That's not how it works. That's why gorillas monopolize with physical power and keep all the women close to them. But that's impossible to do now and been impossible to do because as I said, when they studied the Yanamomos, the women go off hunting on their own or gathering and they have a little rendezvous with a dude. And you see this in chimpanzees. The Betas stay friends with the women and often copulate and mate with them. So it's a super complex set of game theory. It'd be better to just imagine there's a world where there's three men and three women, okay? So let's say there's, I don't know who's a good look? There's Leonardo DiCaprio. He's the best looking one. Who's an average looking actor? Adrian. Who's average looking actor? De Niro. He's not great looking, he's not horrible. And then you got Danny DeVito, okay? And you got the same. Now let's say all three women in general seem to be prettier than men. They've been selected for looks.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So there's three.

[Tai Lopez]

One extra gorgeous woman, one at, you know, decently and one average, okay? So if you're DiCaprio, you're gonna try a high risk strategy, okay? So you're high risk and I'm oversimplifying. So you try the high risk strategy. You seduce the three, okay? But you literally generally are not seducing them at the same millisecond. But he has slept with all three. He's had his chance. But he probably sleeps with them less often because a man can only have sex so many times in a day. Men are constrained much more. Whereas Danny DeVito, he goes, Shit, I'm going Straight for the. The most attainable, the least attractive. And he puts all his concentration on her. Now, at one point, since women, there's a great book on this called the The Dangerous Passion. It's about jealousy. This somewhat average woman that has Danny DeVito pursuing her. At some point, she sees DiCaprio with the more pretty one. She goes, that I don't like, that he may leave me for her. And so she settles with DeVito. And now DeVito never cheats. And he has sex with her. Copulates many, many times. Many times. Okay? He may end up having the same amount of kids as the high risk strategy. That's why I said we're forgetting risk aversion. And we're thinking this is the alpha guy who has a better strategy versus the beta and the sigma and all these stupid things. We should be thinking that nature is smarter than us all. And it doesn't. You know what nature doesn't give us? It doesn't give us free thought. Forget free will for a second. So what nature does is convince DiCaprio that he's doing the right thing. And isn't this so much more fun? You get the women and you just have sex with all of them. And it's telling DeVito to feel high levels of romantic attraction to the one girl. Because a slave owner, a slave who do you think works harder? A slave who knows he's a slave or a slave who thinks he owns the plantation. DNA is the slave owner. And it's smart. This happened in America after the 18. After, you know, 1865 emancipation proclamation. Blacks were given rights back somewhat, but then came a racist president. A couple presidencies later, Reconstruction era, and then they. They let black people build all these beautiful farms. I read a book in South Carolina. They had to develop this whole farmland and then the dam, they switched it back and they took the farmland back, not through slavery, but through some nasty laws. So those black men had. Who had thought they were free worked harder than when they were slaves. So it was a very kind of heinous thing to do. That's what's happening with DiCaprio here. Danny DeVito and Robert de Niro. It's making each of them think they're freely acting. And at the end, no one has more offspring than the other because of DiCaprio's way of always worked over 10,000 generations. Everybody would be born with the DiCaprio strategy. If you study game theory, though, game theory brand, they call it hawks and doves. Is it one game theory simulation or they. Sometimes they have different names, exploiters, defectors. There's different. But hawks and doves. He's a hawk. DiCaprio com swoops in. You know, Dove is a very faithful, kind of upfront, honest guy. Then you know, Danny DeVito, ugly guy, comes and he's like, I love you, and da, da, da. They have the same amount of kids. And that's why right now, in the 2020s, there's some people that are like DiCaprios and some people that are like De Niro's and some De Niro's a little bit. He.

[Tom Bilyeu]

A little.

[Tai Lopez]

Maybe he slept with two of the women out of the three, but they all have the same amount of kids. That's the game theory weirdo thing, you know, it's like this I just read today. I was reading a textbook by this guy Ashton, on personalities is fascinating. Men and women. One big difference is men experience this life satisfaction. Women touch the top one day and the bottom the other day. Women go way up emotionally, feeling amazing. And women feel tremendously depressed in the same week. The average man, partially because of testosterone, is very comparatively varied. But you know what they found in the totality, male and female? It's not predictive who's having more life satisfaction? Because the women's extremes cancel each other out. And they're just like the men. That's why I said These three guys, DiCaprio, De Niro and Danny DeVito, their strategies cancel each other out. So what you have to know, going back to your question to me, is, who really are you in your primitive state? There are men who have tremendous. My best friend, I remember being 16 years old. My friend Jeremy, we were walking to the park in San Diego, I'll never forget. And he literally goes to me, he goes, ty, I just want to find one woman. It was such a funny talk. I don't know why I remember this. I just want to find one woman, and I'm going to give her roses, and we're going to get married and have kids. And I remember at this park, there was all these pretty girls. I was in high school. There's all these high school girls. And we're sitting there, two high schoolers, and I go, why? I was like, how are you gonna choose? I remember being like, how are you gonna choose? Well, guess what life path we went down. He married as a virgin, his high school sweetheart. They were both virgins when they got married. They stayed together 10 years. Okay, had one child. He gets divorced. I lived in that house next door to you. No kidding. He calls me, I'm suicidal, man. And I talked to him. It was one of those. I don't think he's joking. Suicidal. I said, you got to move. He was living on east coast. I said, you move into my house right here. I'm afraid for you. We've been friends since two years old. He moves here. He lands. I'll never forget. He goes, ty, I am gonna live the bachelor life like you've been living. He goes, never will I get married. Nah. All this is so fun. So I had a blind date with a Brazilian girl. Literally, within a couple days of him landing at the house, this guy landed. He stayed single three days. I'm down at, you know, sushi down on the bottom here. So I used to go to sushi a lot. I love it. It's like an outdoor sushi place right at the bottom of this hill. Sunset blazer. I'm sitting there. It was a blind date. I don't know. Somebody set her up. They're like, you're gonna love this Brazilian girl. She pulls up in an Uber. When the door opens, I look at her. I know she's not my type. I have a type. So I was like, I'm gonna instantly pivot this so I don't. I'm not stuck with this girl that I don't want. I'm like, I'm gonna go find somebody else. And Jeremy was having dinner with me on the sushi. And so I. I just played almost like a magic trick. She didn't speak perfect English. I just pretended Jeremy was the blind date, and I'm like, the valet or something. I was like, well, agreed to come to our table. And I sat them down. I kid you not. He told me a few years ago from that night, they never spent a night apart for eight years. The man couldn't be a player. He couldn't be a bachelor. You know why they broke up, by the way? She got jealous. I'm sure it was other things, but the final straw, where he broke up with her. He had, you know, navigation. You can change the voices to Darth Vader to Lou Skywalker. He said it to a sexy girl, and she finally flipped out. And she's like, am I not enough for you that you need this beautiful woman? He's like, it's a voice. And he's like, no more Latin women. But anyway, within he. You ever met a dude who never can be single? So he was talking to a girl who worked for me. He overlapped, made sure he had the new girl, dropped the Old one had the new one, continuous line of monogamy. Got married recently. Wendy told me he never would again. I could have predicted that. You know, I look at his hand, his exactly opposite of me. Crazy high estrogen, finger and low. So my point is, know if you're Jeremy or know if you're tie, then you'll be in flow. I've tried to be Jeremy before. I make the girl miserable and I'm miserable.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Know thyself.

[Tai Lopez]

How's that a win? Everybody loses, man. Now I think what's going wrong in society is people are listening to influencers who are more that want to have 50 women and they're thinking that's the path. But that's not true. Lots of men, in fact, Dr. Buss told me like 50, 60% of men experience tremendous pleasure from marriage. They feel less anxious, they, they have more sex, they feel happy. And yes, they may be tempted by other women, but not really. But don't ever forget FDS frequency dependent selection. 20% of men are miserable and have been miserable. I mean a lot of men, you know when women say men are workaholics. No, Those are the 20% of men that don't like that. The fact that they're married, they want to be off. Dr. Helen Fisher, she told me she went to a tribe in like Indonesia, one of these, like, kind of like the Yanamomo in South America. And she got there and a man, the chief tribe guy, had five wives. And she shows up and she said, I asked him a question. It's in the opening of her book. I think it's in why We Love. She says to him, I'm a researcher. This is a question I've always wanted to ask. If you had unlimited resources as a hunter, how many wives would you like? She thought he was going to say 20, 30. He said zero. They're driving me crazy. That might have been a man, that was a Jeremy. But because of the tribal status, he had to be, you know, he had to be a player. He wasn't a player.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I have a feeling that's a tie. Who realizes that women may not be as easily predisposed to the setup? Which is my next question.

[Tai Lopez]

Oh, you do? I want the five wives.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, that, what I'm saying is, so if we know that you're what you call a player, somebody who likes high variety. Yeah. You said at the beginning of this that Nelson Mandela's dad had five wives, but they all stayed in their own huts. Don't keep them together because they fight a lot. So that would be my instinct. That. That is not. They're not going to mesh well as a general rule. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but it's not going to work well. So how do you find women that suit your lifestyle? You're good at reading people. What's the criteria that you sift through so that you don't end up with somebody who belongs with Jeremy.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And tries to make it work with you and is unhappy?

[Tai Lopez]

By the way, Rick, I realize I said Jeremy's name. Usually I don't say Jeremy. Jeremy's gonna listen.

[Tom Bilyeu]

We can bleep that out if we need to.

[Tai Lopez]

No, no, you can leave it in. He's cool. He'll be like, ah, it's been long enough. It's been long enough. You know, you can now tell Abraham Lincoln gunshot jokes. It's been long enough. It's not too early. So repeat the question.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How do you.

[Tai Lopez]

What?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Filtering.

[Tai Lopez]

How do you find that? Okay, I got an answer you're not gonna like, because I. We talked about astrology at the beginning. My mom's a hippie sitting over there in a chair. But one thing I've learned is there is a 10% chance, maybe higher, that all the religious things that supposedly smart guys like me and you believe is wrong and all the religious stuff is right. I mean, I. There is a chance that. Classical kind of God. There's a God and there's Angel. There is some of the smartest people. The first time I ever saw it is the last page of Stephen Hawking's book. Is it his book called the Big Questions or whatever? He has two books, Brief History, Time. And one of them, he ends by saying, and then we will know the mind of God. And I was like, what? He's talking about God now? He didn't mean it in a religious sense, but there's things like prayer when you start thinking about quantum physics. Like prayer is like, there was nothing and then there was something. Or as Stephen Hawking said, we used to think, there's no free lunch. It seems like all of the universe is free lunch. As if all of the universe could have been a prayer. That one species said, I manifest a cool group of weirdos, 4 billion of them, and it just. The Big Bang happened. We call it the Big Bang, but that could have been the creation story. We don't know. So you asked me, do I believe in astrology? I mean, I wouldn't build my whole life around it, but I also don't think it's a 0% do I believe in psychics in general? I wouldn't, but I wouldn't bet 100. I wouldn't bet my life on it. So I asked a psychic this. I don't seem to be the Marian type. Now, there are some psychics, I'm going to tell you. Believe it or not, there's a psychic down in West Hollywood. Don't count. I don't know what they do. They're like magicians. I still haven't figured out their trick. There's a famous one that is a psychic to a lot of the smartest, wealthiest people here. I always saw her Ferrari in her house. It's in West Hollywood, down by Mellose. One time I was dating this girl and she was like crying after work. She had had this big blow up, quit her job, and we were driving by and she. I knew she was a hippie, so I said, let's go to the psychic there. So we're going to the psychic. We walk in, she's like, true. She's like Romanian. She speaks that. She's got beats, but she has Ferrari, like four Ferraris out front. I'm like, this chick is good. I gotta see her sales technique. So we walk in, it's a long table. It's very much like a movie. The girl I'm sitting with and this psychic speaking in her Romanian voice goes, or maybe she was Albanian or something. She talks to the women. She goes, you're having problems at work. Your boss is hitting on you and you. And you're thinking of leaving the job. Well, that's why we drove there. Her boss had hit on her and she decided to quit. Now, this was like a very pretty model. And I was thinking, that's easy. I could have guessed that. You know, I was like, a pretty girl's having problems with their boss, but I kid you not. The Romanian lady goes, but tonight's not about you, ma'. Am. It's about you. She turns to me, she goes, you have six brothers. Well, I have six brothers, and nobody knows that. They're all half brothers. After, I was like, looking for cameras. I was like, I still don't know how she figured that out. You can Google Tai Lopez, how many brothers Dollars? There's nothing. I don't know how she knew me, but she proceeded to tell me all this stuff. And then at the end, she said, no charge. I came with the, like, a Rolls Royce. She knew I had money. She goes, no charge to you. Take this necklace. This will give you good luck. She tried to put around me she goes, and if you ever want to come back, I'm open anytime. It's fifteen hundred dollars a session. I never went back though, because she freaked me out. But I was like, what a damn good salesman. Appear. Virtue signal. Ty just did this for free. I still haven't figured out the damn magic trick. See Ty, that one says, ty has three half brothers. I have six. Anyway, so I asked, not that psychic, but a psychic, what should I do? How do I find women like this? You know what her answer was? She pulls her tarot cards. She goes, oh, you just need like kind of a hippie, free spirit woman. There's 20% of the world like that. That's damn good advice. So if you're like me, there is a group of women, first off, there's a group of women that experience no jealousy. It's very rare. It's for sure sub 5 to 10%. There's a group of women who like the thought that a guy can have more than women. Then they're just not threatened. So you have to find on a spectrum, you need low jealousy, actually high cooperation. That's technical terms, agreeableness. So a high agreeable person just kind of says, well, if that makes you happy, I'm good with it. But it has to be a combination of those two. So a psychic would just say, find us free spirit. The scientist in me was, you need to look for a very narrow set of people. But I think people try to do it my way. I actually thought. I actually like relationships more than I thought. Hmm. I think I'm more visual. Remember how I said on the spectrum of personality, we've been forgetting about risk taking their aesthetics. There are men who. I have a brother who's very good looking. I have a couple brothers that are good looking. They don't care that much about the looks of a woman. Interestingly enough, in a textbook. There's an interesting textbook. I think it's evolutionary psychology by Dr. Buss. High parasite load. Societies care more about physical aesthetics, meaning there's actually a gene. Because, you know, when you know physical beauty is like low mutation parasite load, that's. That's like the average. I think the average person has like 4 or 500 mutations in the womb from the environment or bad genetics. Not enough that you're handicapped when you're born. But somebody like Brad Pitt had like 50 mutations. And some mutations come from high parasite load. There's huge parts of Puerto Rico. Rockefeller, that was one of his big things. There was so much parasite load in tropical places. So maybe My ancestry from a tropical place has made me more aesthetic. My dad was a pro bodybuilder. He was very aesthetic. So I think what makes it harder for me is. And some of my brothers are they don't care about aesthetics. They don't want an ugly woman, but they're not tremendously, aesthetically picky. They want a pretty woman, but not a shockingly pretty woman. And what does that have to do

[Tom Bilyeu]

with how much you discovering you like relationships more than you thought?

[Tai Lopez]

So I have to go. I wrote a. I have a thing called 13 thesis. That's my 13 hypothesis. For me, there's a certain look that I like more. And so if I go to places that are thick, market of that, which is Scandinavia, my barometer, my let's. You ever heard of med? Minimum effective dose. Probably it's when you go to a doctor for antibiotics, he's like, make sure you take all four pills. Because if you take three, nothing happens except maybe you get resistance. So for me to be in a relationship with girl, there's a minimum attraction I have to have. When I lived in California in that house, in general, I don't like the look women in the United States. I don't know why. When I first time ever went to Scandinavia, I was like, I remember. I've told my mom many times, mom, there's only one thing I'm mad at you for in my childhood that you didn't move to Sweden when I was a baby. Because every single woman is kind of not every single woman. But it's a thick market. So it's easier for me to fall in love with. So I actually think I'm more romantic than I thought I was five years ago. But if I don't have.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You just hadn't found the right.

[Tai Lopez]

No, the med. There's not enough med. And so two things a man has to have. All men care about aesthetics. So for me, let's say the med is she has to be an 8 out of 10 of attraction. But my type, okay, there's a lot. I don't think Angelina Jolie is classically beautiful. She's like a four to me. I don't find her attractive. So there has to be an attraction, aesthetic attraction. For me, that's. Let's say every man needs an 8. It's harder for me to fulfill an 8. But you also need a woman within the same or one standard deviation of your iq. That's classic evolutionary theory. So if you. For any man listening or woman, the higher your IQ is, any woman or man Listening has high IQ and has high aesthetics. You narrow the pool, Teeny. I had a mathematician friend, Klaus Flock, astrophysicist at North Carolina. I fed in all my computations that I wanted. And he's like, ty, we had breakfast in Chapel Hill one time. He's like, I calculate there's 70 women like this in the world. And I was like, but there's 8 billion people. And he's like, and there's none in North Carolina, statistically, because there's only 11 million people in North Carolina and there's 8 billion people. He did all the math. He's like, you're fucked. But what he should have told me is go to Sweden. That is the simple. That is. I need a shirt.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, so we know. We need.

[Tai Lopez]

So know thyself.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Know thyself. We need to go to a thick market. Then we're also going to have to have.

[Tai Lopez]

And then I'm more romantic then. I am not as interested in dating 20 women.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Only five.

[Tai Lopez]

Doesn't have to be five. No. I think even the man that thinks he's a player, if the med is met, he might settle down.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Interesting. That feels diametrically opposed to where we started.

[Tai Lopez]

It's like quantum physics. We have our absolute rule that men are genetically. And then we have our quantum physics that the second you start to measure it too close, it changes. That's why I said, be careful of convictions. Convictions are greater enemies of the. You know, the root. You know, my first YouTube video, Find My digress. It was a good one. I don't even know if I have it posted. I was in a taxi in London. I think it's roughly 2014, the first time I tried to be an influencer. I had some videos in 09 at the Laugh Factory down there with Zach. 2014, I did this video and I said, the root of all evil. And I said, I can't explain it in words. So let me just give it to you in primitive grunts. The root of all evil in the world is. Instead of, you know, people ask me what I think of the Middle east right now. The root of all evil is. We know what's true versus that's not what I thought. But tell me why you think that way. What's the root of all evil in Russia, Ukraine? You got two sides that I know nothing about it, but I know the root of all evil is convictions. You should have very few convictions because almost everything is wrong, including what I believe. So, as I said, when I'm in my best, when I'm in my power, I might have had a hypothesis about myself because when I lived in la, all the evidence was showing that I didn't want to commit to a girl. But I realized it because they didn't meet the med of the two things that are important to my brain. Los Angeles is not an intellectual place. It's a ssg, a self selected group of people who in general are higher on narcissism. So you do get a lot of people that are beautiful here. But the US is not, is not an SSG for intelligence. There are intel. Obviously the most Nobel prizes in the world are the us but it's very thin park pockets. In general, Europe is more an intellectual place. Even Napoleon in the 1800s said, you know, America, that merchant state, he saw America as a place where people like to make money. So I always tell people, best place you can live is outside of the US for lifestyle. Best place to make money is inside the us. That's why I pop in and out of both. Europe is a much better lifestyle, people are healthier, happier, and you can meet the most beautiful woman who is smart as hell. In America, it's a thin market, you find beauty and not. People are going to get mad at this, but shit. You ever landed at an American airport after being in Sweden, you're like, what the fuck happened? This was a nuclear bomb of looks. What the fuck happened? Now part of that is obesity is just decimating looks. Your fake men are always like, ty, I'm too ugly to get a girl. I'm like, now you probably got too much fat on your face, damn it. Shit. Fat distorts the face for men and women, you fucking. And everybody distorts in a different way. So Europe, like Sweden is the, I think last I read is the most in shape people in the world.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What's the secret to being, to being able to get the kind of woman

[Tai Lopez]

that you want change where you live, damn it. Geography is a son of a bitch. You get the wrong geography. I have a friend, he freaking loves brunettes and he lives in like, you know, he lives in Norway, he likes. I'm like, bro, you gotta move. Go find a wife in Brazil and come back now. One thing I would add to this, the new global study came out. I've been waiting for this for my entire decade. Men and women go hard on studying mental instability because countries aren't all the same. What do you think's the most in this new meta study came out? What's the most mentally unstable place in the world?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Mentally unstable?

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah. Russia high. It's like say three. Eastern Europe is very high in. And when people say, what do you mean my mental instability? Dark triad, exploitative traits. So dark triad traits, there's dark dyad. But dark triad is narcissism, Machiavellian and psychopathy. Where else do you think is even worse?

[Tom Bilyeu]

That was my best guess. I'm just gonna hide it.

[Tai Lopez]

Where could you hide a terrorist for 20 years?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Middle East. But you'd have to be very specific in which country And I would not be the person to make that guess. Am I right?

[Tai Lopez]

You ever seen Donald Trump's interview where he goes, abu is dead. He died like a dog. You ever see that whole thing? No. Remember when Obama sent a Navy SEAL team in and the plane helicopter. That was Pakistan. I was. Osama bin Laden was chill there. Like, we'll take this. So Pakistan scored on this better study, by the way. No offense. I have actually an office in Pakistan. So I've had a great experience in

[Tom Bilyeu]

Pakistan, but which is currently being bombed.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah. After that my office. Okay. I hope not. It's like what I need my office. No, but Pakistan, Middle East. Middle east in general. Eastern Europe, France is the most unstable in the western world. But where do you think's the most mentally stable place? Thick market of low exploitative traits.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Brazil.

[Tai Lopez]

I. Ah, you got it. You're the first person to ever get it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Come on.

[Tai Lopez]

I've always. I do Brazilian jiu jitsu. I'm like the jolly. I got these big huge guys. I work out Higa Machado. He's like 6, 3, 2, 60 pound, you know, 260 pound, red coral belt. He's the jolliest guy ever. Now Brazil has high crime but lower exploitation. It's a very family oriented place. So if a man is looking for long term mating, you need to have your med for looks and intelligence. But you need to heavily weight mental stability because that shit passes on to your children. So this is a complicated game. In my brain is more. I'm not anxious, but I try to play chess with things when society taught me how to play checkers. This is a complicated question. That's part of why I came. You know, I've been off social media for three years. My life mission. Joel Salatin says most important thing you do is create a one sentence mission plan that you write down. So make sure your mission plan's bigger than your own lifetime that you could that needs to be fulfilled. Mine was starting about 10, more than 10 years ago was I want to spread good ideas. Okay. Or good Hypothesis, we could say. And I came back to social media because social media is actually spreading very bad ideas. And the worst idea is one that's 95% true and 5% wrong. Because it has. It's like a sheep. It's like a wolf in sheep's clothing. So I think this is a subject. I think men are getting led astray on this. A lot of dudes are like, just following, what's this?

[Tom Bilyeu]

To only one woman get married the other way.

[Tai Lopez]

Swung the other way. Never get married, never have kids.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You think that's the mistake?

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah, most men aren't built for that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So should men. We obviously already covered kids. Should most men get married?

[Tai Lopez]

I think you should have long term mating. I don't think marriage matters if you want to do it for tax reasons. Sweden has lower divorce rates. In America, nobody gets married and they haven't been getting married for 50 years. Iceland, very cool society. I was just there. Long lived society. Been going functional for a thousand years. Nobody gets married there, but they'll stay together. I mean, they'll live, have six kids and live together for 20 years. You ask them why they're not married. They're like, who cares? It's a government piece of paper.

[Tom Bilyeu]

They have a religious tradition in Iceland.

[Tai Lopez]

They're half Vikings, they call them. Or in Iceland they say Viking gang or something. Viking gong. It's supposedly Christian, but it's very Viking. Scandinavia. It's a lot to learn from Scandinavia. Scandinavia is one of the pockets of the world that's an outlier. You know, it's not really capitalistic like America. It's not really communistic like Russia. It's not really socialistic or individual, yet it has individualism. Do you know what they do right? People aren't physically healthy anymore. In America, the food system is the biggest scam. You know, people are always going, oh, crypto people did a scam or this. I'm like, what are you talking about? If everybody was logical, you'd be throwing the CEO for the last 50 year of every large food company in prison for poisoning a generation. Literally poisoning a generation. People, I'm going. People sometimes go, tyler, your course is a scam. I'm like, I had a class that was $67 for 67 hours of business training. That was like repeated in Harvard. Even if you thought it was a bad program, you only spent $67. My brother spent $80,000 at UNC to get a Spanish degree and he doesn't even know Spanish. And he was 80,000 in debt. It almost sunk him, he was very depressed over it for a long time. How's that? How's that Those people not in prison, you're gonna talk about a scam. So one of the thing that's going on, everybody wants to make more money. Everybody wants to have love, right? But at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs is your body. I even heard you at the beginning. People think, I don't listen. I listen. You said, well, the only thing more important to me in my wife would be my physical health. I wouldn't trade that. Which, by the way, you're 100% of your own genes and you're 0% of your own wife. So that's a predictable answer we would all make. If you had a choice between being super unhealthy and being celibate or super healthy and celibate or super unhealthy and have love, you probably would pick healthy. We don't talk enough about health entrepreneurs. You know, I just wrote this book, Shameless Plug. It's like seven bucks called the three Trends at the end. Even in a business book, it's about how to create wealth from social media. In the damn end of it, I put in a bonus chapter called the ideal Physical Daily Routine that includes a lot of stuff about health. For example, you really, as a man, we know this. You should be walking 15,000 steps a day. When you open your damn health app and you look at the average for the month, you know, I think health they give you, it needs to save 15,000. And women are built to walk around 12,000. There's a great book on this by Daniel Lieberman from Harvard. He's a paleoanthropologist. He checks the bone structure of our hips. He can tell. And look at the archeological record. We men hunted about seven miles, but we didn't do the K. Get off the damn treadmill. At the desk I use at the office. At the gym. I use a treadmill desk in the office because you don't want to be, you know, hardcore working out. But we're built to sprint, run, jog, slide, and jump. So even when we do cardio, our 15,000 steps, we're not even doing it right. We're walking on concrete. Walking on a flat surface so increases things like joint damage or we're jogging. People who jog always look horrible and age faster than anybody else. I know I'll piss off the whole marathon. Well, great if you want to do a marathon, but you don't look good. Humans are. When we were hunting something, we Sprinted. Sometimes you had to jump over things, sometimes you had to slide to the side, you had to run backwards. Sometimes you had to stop and walk and recuperate and you had to high speed sprint. So we don't even know what we're doing. Sometimes people go, ty, are you a, are you a physical therapist? Are you, what's your credentials? I'm like people credentials failed us. Nobody even knows how to work out correctly, you know. So I built, you know, I built this thing called 150 body around the number 150. Theoretically, scientists thinks we can live to 150 years old. That's the current. Now some people say you can live Methuselah. But if you ask the largest group of scientists, they'll say we can live to 150 and be somewhat thriving. Well, you need 150 minutes of deep sleep every night to do that. Who the hell I track on a ring. You have to change your Life to get 150 minutes of deep sleep. That's two and a half hours. I, I meet all I got, you know, all these entrepreneurs around me. I got a guy, multimillionaire, eight figure guy, nine figure guy. He gets 60 minutes of deep sleep. I'm like, what are you doing bro? Do you know Maslow, what you're talking about? This and I'm going to change the world and I'm going to this and my kids. I said you're going to die. What are you talking about? So people should stick much closer to that Maslow's hierarchy of needs and never think you can move off the bottom of it. Get on a farm. You should drink dairy. People are idiots with dairy. They're literal idiots with dairy. There's not one piece of science. Now there are people who are lactose intolerant, but dairy is the food of the gods. And if you don't believe me, you know all the NFL and the NBA. You notice there's one group of people that seems to be playing with black guys. Well, they don't come from every tribe. You think they come from the pygmy tribes of South Africa? South, the southern part of Africa? No, A lot of the damn huge, most athletic, powerful people. They're Maasai and they're Dinka. What do the Maasai do? They live off cattle. They drink the blood right out of the neck, they drink the milk and they eat the meat. So we've been led astray by the machine. The rise of corporations tricked us. That dairy is bad for you. Now if you have lactose intolerance, you can do other things and you don't need a lot of dairy. That's the thing. People think I drink 50 gallons of milk. No, but paleo is not correct. Carnivore is not correct. You know, keto is not correct. It's all there. It's the nomadic diet. Look it up. There's three branches of human history. There's the branch of hunter gatherers and then there's a branch of agriculture. Both of these don't have the best health. So we based paleo and carnivore. Carnivore is kind of its own invention. But humans are not carnivores. I like. You ever open? You know, it's funny, I have cows. So when I meet a vegan, I'm like, you ever been around an herbivore? Oh, no. Die vegan is the way. It's healthier for you. You ever been around an herbivore? I have 300 herbivores on my farm right now. Cows, four chambered stomachs. They have no teeth at the top. None. If you have teeth, you're automatically chewing, not forage. You don't have grass. Now, carnivores, I'm like, how many carnivore teeth do you see in your mouth? Ding dong, you got a couple sharp ones. You ever opened your carnivore dog's mouth or a lion's mouth? It's a lot of sharp ones. So we got confused. Hunter gatherer, we're not the healthiest people. A lot of them, like I said, pygmies, they're like 4 foot tall. They're not that strong. Then you had modern agriculture, which was too. We basically have domesticated plants too much. My wild apples on my farm are that big. How much insulin response? How much. What do you think is the sugar content, the glycemic index of an apple this big. I go in the store, I'm like, this person is poisoning a civilization with an apple that big or grapes that big. So you. So. But that's the nomads or the branch you should be following. They are the. Who was the healthiest people in North America? George Carlin. Not the comedian. Not the comedian. The painter in the 1700s, came through America, studied all the people. When he came to the Plains Indians who lived off buffalo also, they would shoot the babies, cut open their stomach and eat the. Basically the cottage cheese, the curdled milk out, okay? They ate the organ meat. Who was 6 foot 1 tall, strongest, smartest, blew him away. It was the plains Indians. Not the ones who farmed. Not the. There was the tribes that ate basically just vegetables. That was the Ute Indians in Utah. They were the poorest. They looked like they were going to die all the time. We don't. We have to become an independent thinker.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. I saw a quote from you that said, I don't know what to make of a civilization that poisons its own people.

[Tai Lopez]

No, they're on. Children go into a school right now. Coca Cola for six year olds. Even the government stupid nutritional thing says you should get 20 if an adult should only get 25 grams of processed sugar. Some sprites have. I've seen a Sprite that had, I don't know what size it was at 60 grams of sugar. And you give it to a kid who's 35 pounds and then you give them Ritalin. So the other people who. Some of them should be in prison, not all of them is the pharmaceutical people.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, we've opened up two big cans of whoop ass, but I know we have to wrap and get you out of here.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah. What time is it?

[Tom Bilyeu]

This has been fascinating.

[Tai Lopez]

We should talk business.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Let's do it.

[Tai Lopez]

We didn't talk as much business. That's good, though.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So one question I have on that is obviously over the last few years, when you've been out of the spotlight on social, doing the traditional marketing, you've gone into bigger companies, older companies. Bought radio shack, bodybuilding dot com.

[Tai Lopez]

Pier 1.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I heard you. Pier 1.

[Tai Lopez]

Jesus.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I heard you say that your holding company was going to do about 450 million in revenue. How's that going? Like, what's the strategy there? Where do you see this ending up?

[Tai Lopez]

So I've always been a Warren Buffett guy and I think when you create wealth by reverse engineering the best. Right now, who exactly is. I actually think Warren Buffett. And I think the two best business people, just pure business people, are Mark Zuckerberg and Warren Buffett. Elon Musk is probably the most innovative and creative, you know, and maybe civilization changing. So what Warren Buffett said is, or how I interpret it is don't build it if you can buy it, but if you can't buy it, build it. And so I think an underutilized tool. I bought my first business, did an M and a transaction, like 2004. I took over a nightclub business and it instantly started making money. Now, that doesn't always happen. M and A deals. If you start doing a lot of M and A deals, some are going to succeed and some will fail. Even Warren Buffett kicks some out the. I'm not as good a businessman as Warren Buffett. But everybody. When you acquire companies, sometimes some win and some don't. But the advantages you take, you buy a company like Pier 1 and you have 95% brand recognition in the United States. And so if you want to be in the home goods, you want to sell chairs, you want to sell furniture, to build that from scratch might take 65 years and a couple billion dollars in revenue, you can buy it. So I think more entrepreneurs should be buying shit. I think it's a big mistake. And if you go back to that Forbes list of the top 10 wealthiest people every. I mean, look, Elon Musk didn't. His first wealth, big wealth, was created with PayPal. He didn't start PayPal. He merged into it in an M and A deal. He didn't start Tesla, he bought in. I think he put in $32 million to acquire his stake.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes, but you're taking what looks like from the outside to be a very high risk strategy. So when you announced that you were buying Radio Shack, I was like, well, whoa. Because that from a brand perspective, well,

[Tai Lopez]

not everybody should do that. Kind of not look risk taking. Again, know thyself. If you're a low risk taker, a simple thing to do is buy cash flowing businesses. I had a friend, Nate, in San Diego, he bought. I remember him telling me, ty, I bought and I did this in 2013. He bought a fence building business, a boring business. Literally built fences from a guy in Orange county who was like 70 years old, had no kids, that wanted the business was doing 5 million a year. My friend bought it for no cash. He just said, I'll give you 50,000amonth. He funded the 50,000amonth to pay the guy by doing email marketing and adding an extra hundred thousand in profit a month. So it was a riskless transition. I did that in 2013. I bought a online education company. Two partners were fighting. I was in the house right there next to you. And so if you. It wasn't risky like buying a big brand, that's all. You can just buy something that's cash flowing. That's like 40 years old. And as ne and I did that, I bought a business and I introduced email marketing to it. And I made an extra $200,000 the first month. And I had. My payments were 10,000amonth on it. So I kicked myself out. I owned half of it, 100 GS and paid 10,000 of it to the guy. So I think Know this risk tolerance thing. Next time I come on, I'm gonna have thought, this is my newest thing. I've been thinking about the last six months. But don't dismiss something because you're a lower risk taker. And I've done this before. Take a good idea and stick it in your risk profile. So if you, if I see for example, Elon Musk did the riskiest of all M and A. He bought Twitter for 45, $4 billion from a public code, a private. There's a lot of things that can go wrong. He borrowed money, I think he put in, I don't know, 8 billion of his own. It's all leveraged up. He, after three months of him owning, he said we might go bankrupt. If it goes bankrupt, he has to give most of his equity back to restructure the business in a chapter 11. So Elon Musk is tremendous high risk for. One of the first times I ever met Elon Musk, he told me his story and I, he said after PayPal I, I think he made, I forget the number 130 million after cash taxes. He said, I heard him say in person I was borrowing rent money 10 years later or five years later. So he's so high on the risk profile that if I, if somebody listening says, well, Elon Musk is buying crazy companies and dumping his whole life. Say, if you're not able to take that level of risk, you might commit suicide. Many a man has committed suicide from not knowing his personal risk profile. Elon Musk has a superpower. He, Donald Trump the same way in his book, one of his books, Donald, I've never met Donald Trump, but he said in one of his books he said, you know what, I'm just built different. He said at one point I walked by a homeless guy and I was 1.2 billion in debt that I had personally guaranteed. And I thought I'm a, that that homeless guy has is higher net worth. 1.2 billion richer than me. And he said I could sleep eight hours every night. And he said he had a friend who was a college professor who had a $250,000 mortgage. And he said he used to call Donald I can't sleep at night, I gotta make my payments. 4,000amonth. And Donald said he couldn't understand it. I think I understand it now when you begin to apply the risk profile. So people shouldn't look at what I, you should look at the general vicinity. Acquire businesses is a great idea, but I'll tell you, I'll close with this, this new book I wrote the three trends. What most people should do is catch the third trend, which is the rise of the individual. And the simplest way for the every risk profile, whether you're low, medium or high, is to learn how to create wealth from social media. If you can create wealth from social media, oh, you will win. Because think of it this way. One you could first off do like what Ben Shapiro did. He built a personal brand around himself, but he diversified because some people say, I don't build a brand on myself. What if I get a car accident? He then developed a guy named Jordan Peterson who wasn't well known. So, and he gets, they have a jv, he's a profit share with each other. So what you do is you build your brand or if you're too shy, you do a joint venture with another brand. Run the operations. It's a portable business. When you build true fans, some fans leave you. But humans are commitment, consistency, bias. Once they really love you. I heard a fan of Donald Trump, the left was interviewing his fan and said, is there anything Donald Trump could do that you wouldn't support him for next president? The guy goes, bro, there could be film of him murdering somebody. He's like, I just like Donald Trump. So a personal brand, a corporation could never do that. The rise of the McDonald's, the IBMs, they're going to fall. The Microsoft's, one day will fall. Even apples, they'll be replaced by what Elon Musk is doing, sticking his face as the face of Twitter. So become an individual brand. Diversify by joint venturing with three or four others. Know thy risk tolerance. If you are a little bit lower on the risk tolerance, don't try to become a big influencer like Tom. Have millions of followers, be medium. And if you're really shy, try to have a small following. Try to have a 50,000 person Instagram account, figure it out, how to create some wealth for yourself and then do a joint venture with somebody who doesn't mind their face out there and you split the money. That's how people should be making money now. I figured this out 10 years ago in that house. 2011, 2012, I was like, personal brands. And you know what's funny? I started with Millionaire Life Coach. I was still tricked by wave number two. Trend number two is corporations will win. And so I bought Millionaire Life Coach. Cost me $3,000 and I launched it and it just never got traction. And I remembered about a year later that I had bought Tai Lopez.com for $7 in 2009. And I was like, what if I make it more personal? And I said, and I kid you not, in that house right there, I'll never forget, before you could go live, you had to use this corporate live software. There was no Instagram Live and all that. I went live in that house. 150 people were on but true fans. And I sold a product, I don't remember what it was. And I made $100,000 in 30 minutes. And I remember thinking, okay, well this works. And my costs were zero. And that's when I knew it. But I was still early. It's so easy now. It was hard then. So3trends.com I'll get the book. Can I plug something? 3trends.com There it is. I'll take you to the book. I've laid out all my opinions. People are, oh, what you do Instagram, Tick Tock, Poses podcast. Better Tick Tock. I'll, I'll tell you my opinion of the, the brainwashing of Tick Tock. How you can use it to your advantage. And I got all that in there. It works. I've done like you, I've done, you know, way more than 100 million just from a personal brand. And a lot of people can be doing a mill, could be doing 200 grand. The rise of the individual, that's trend number three. And if you catch that, you'll always be happier, man. The worst one was the one that our ancestors had. Your dad was stuck in the rise of the corporation. Trend number two, thank God that trend's dying and damn trend number one governments. Talk about that another time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, first of all, it was awesome having you being here, everybody. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace.