Trump & Vance Call For A Return to Shared Values - Can Religion Really Unite America? | The Tom Bilyeu Show

Summary

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Impact Theory Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Trump & Vance Call For A Return to Shared Values – Can Religion Really Unite America?
Host: Tom Bilyeu
Co-Host: Drew
Release Date: February 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the concept of “shared values” in American society, prompted by recent remarks from J.D. Vance and Donald Trump about religion as a unifying force. Through discussions of U.S. foreign policy, the nature of truth, religion’s societal function, ongoing legal-political battles, and cultural touchstones, Tom Bilyeu and Drew critically examine whether America can reconcile its divisions—and whether a modern form of religious or moral consensus could anchor the nation. The hosts remain analytical, seeking clarity without partisan slant, and probe the cultural consequences of a society wrestling with fragmented truths.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S.-Europe Relations & the Idea of “Shared Values”

• [02:01–04:35]
  • J.D. Vance’s Speech Excerpt: Argues that U.S.-Europe alliances are contingent on shared democratic values. Cites issues like free speech and “canceling” elections as dividing points.
    • Quote (Vance, 03:08): “Friendship is based on shared values… You do not have shared values if you're jailing people for saying we should close down our border... Let's have free expression, not just in the United States, but all over the Western world. That is the path to strong alliances in Europe.”
  • Tom frames the realignment of alliances as the changing “world order,” noting Americans’ growing reluctance to subsidize defense for nations with divergent values.
  • Drew adds that the U.S. is increasingly scrutinizing the “return on investment” for international aid, resembling internal financial audits.

2. Trump & the Call for National Unity through Religion

• [07:27–10:07]
  • Trump’s National Prayer Breakfast remarks center on coming together—“If we could ever come together, it would be…”—prompting Tom to reflect on America’s erosion of shared purpose.
    • Quote (Trump, 07:27): “If we could ever come together, it would be unbelievable. May not happen, but it should and maybe it will.”
  • Tom (a non-believer) surprisingly agrees with Trump’s notion: only a new “gravitational center”—potentially a secularized form of shared religious values—can unite the nation.
    • Quote (Tom, 08:33): “If we could find a new gravitational center as a nation... that would be really, really incredible.”
  • The hosts discuss how rejecting religion entirely has left America unanchored, but warn that any uniting religion must shed its dogmatic/violent tendencies.

3. The Role of Religion in American History & Identity

• [10:58–16:44]
  • Drew and Tom reference historical founders (e.g., Jefferson) and the nation's reliance on “faith in God” as an anchoring myth for individual rights and societal standards—even among those who didn’t hold orthodox beliefs.
    • Quote (Drew, paraphrased): “Shared belief in God gave us a unified set of standards... that's what made the country work at its core.”
  • The loss of a universal playbook, fueled by modern relativism (“everybody got their own truth”), is blamed for much of today’s division and “living in separate realities.”

4. Truth, Authority, and the Limits of Objectivity

• [17:27–23:32]
  • Tom explains why agreed-upon “truth” is elusive in a world driven by interpretation rather than empirical fact. “Physics is truth, but human experience isn’t physics.”
  • The hosts argue that, in the absence of transcendent authority (e.g., religion), societies struggle to justify morality—using the trolley problem to illustrate these philosophical limits.
    • Quote (Tom, 18:45): “You’re not going to be able to ground [society] on quote-unquote truth... so much of ‘truth’ is just human brain hierarchy.”
  • Conclusion: We need some authoritative framework, religious or otherwise, to resolve moral questions and promote cooperation.

5. The American Political Crisis: MAGA as Revolution or Restoration?

• [23:39–27:56]
  • Tom introduces Victor Davis Hanson’s view that MAGA is not a revolution, but a “counter-revolution” aimed at restoring pre-Obama values.
    • Quote (Hanson, 25:03): “They call it the MAGA revolution. It's not a revolution, it is a counter-revolution... a restoration. We don't know really, we don't really appreciate what we've been through…”
  • The hosts caution that both left and right are racing away from each other, each seeing themselves as righteous—without objective authority to settle the conflict.
    • Quote (Tom, 28:14): “The only answer that's on the table... is religion. I am super open if somebody has a better answer…”

6. Lawfare and Political Vendettas

• [29:03–35:46]
  • Clips from Adam Schiff and Kash Patel highlight escalating partisan accusations over legal prosecutions (“lawfare”).
  • Tom and Drew express concern: if Trump’s team retaliates with legal actions just like those allegedly taken against him, the country will experience “a race to the bottom.”
    • Quote (Tom, 33:14): “If he just ends up doing the same lawfare against the left that was done to him, that's really fucking terrible.”

7. Cultural Politics: Monuments, Kobe Bryant & Community Signaling

• [35:51–41:59]
  • Trump announcing a Kobe Bryant statue sparks discussion of symbolic gestures to various voting blocs, especially the Black community.
  • Drew and his co-host analyze the political calculus: Trump’s gestures are interpreted as seeking goodwill, but there’s skepticism about their depth.
  • Tom argues for evaluating current policies strictly by their impact on people, not just historical scores.

8. AI, Gaming & the Future

• [43:27–45:58]
  • The hosts pivot to the astonishing advancements of Grok 3 (Elon Musk’s AI) in video game development, forecasting major disruption but urging developer-centric controls.
    • Quote (Tom, 43:54): “If AI only output generic things... everything will just sort of become this sort of gray blob. But if you allow me to go in and make little tweaks... I can be the Quentin Tarantino of filmmaking.”

9. Pop Culture Tangents: James Bond and Christopher Nolan

• [45:58–49:42]
  • Brief but opinionated riffing on who should be the next James Bond—Idris Elba, Timothy Chalamet, and James McAvoy are all mentioned, with Tom arguing for a younger, more “classic” Bond.
  • Lighthearted debate on Christopher Nolan’s film Tenet and the challenges of narrative complexity. Tom humorously pleads with Nolan to “dumb things down a smidge.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• J.D. Vance on Shared Values:
  • “Friendship is based on shared values... you do not have shared values if you're jailing people for saying we should close down our border.” (03:08)
• Donald Trump on National Unity:
  • “If we could ever come together, it would be unbelievable. May not happen, but it should and maybe it will.” (07:27)
• Tom Bilyeu on America’s Need for an Anchor:
  • “If we could find a new gravitational center as a nation... that would be really, really incredible.” (08:33)
• Tom on Religion as Societal Technology:
  • “Religion is like the ultimate ‘because I’m the parent and I said so’…it has a high degree of utility.” (19:15)
• Victor Davis Hanson on Cultural Upheaval:
  • “The revolution that we've experienced was a cultural, economic, political, social revolution… We looked at girls sports and we destroyed it...” (25:03)
• Tom on Lawfare and the Peril of Retaliation:
  • “If he just ends up doing the same lawfare against the left that was done to him, that's really fucking terrible.” (35:14)
• Tom on Evaluating Policy:
  • “Is it creating the soil in which all individual Americans can thrive? If yes, do more. If no, do less.” (39:37)
• Tom on AI and Creativity:
  • “If you allow me to make little tweaks…then I can be the Quentin Tarantino of filmmaking.” (43:54)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Opening Theme / Show Setup: [01:00–01:59]
• J.D. Vance on Europe & Shared Values: [02:01–05:41]
• U.S. Foreign Aid & Internal Spending: [05:41–07:18]
• Trump’s National Prayer Breakfast Remarks: [07:27–10:07]
• Historical Function of Religion in America: [10:58–16:44]
• Nature of Truth & Authority in Modern America: [17:27–23:32]
• MAGA Revolution vs. Counter-Revolution (Victor Davis Hanson): [23:39–27:56]
• Lawfare, Partisan Prosecutions & Civic Stability: [29:03–35:46]
• Kobe Bryant Statue & Symbolic Politics: [35:51–41:59]
• AI and Grok 3 in Game Development: [43:27–45:58]
• James Bond Casting & Christopher Nolan: [45:58–49:42]

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Tone and Language

The hosts maintain a rigorous, analytical, and sometimes self-deprecating tone—balancing open-minded philosophical exploration with moments of dry wit and candid skepticism. Both Tom and Drew present themselves as independent thinkers, openly questioning their own biases while urging listeners to do the same.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is an engaging, rapid-fire tour through America’s ongoing debates over identity, unity, and authority. By threading together current events, philosophical history, and pop-culture references, Tom Bilyeu and Drew lay bare the need for a new unifying ethos—be it religion, shared values, or something yet unseen. The conversation is practical, sometimes unfiltered, and always aimed at equipping the listener to think more deeply about what will help America thrive in the years ahead.

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Transcript

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[Tom Bilyeu]

Victor Davis Hansen says MAGA isn't a revolution, it is a counter revolution. Vance says we need shared values and Trump says religion is what will bring us all together. And as a non believer, I think he actually might be right. Cash Patel got confirmed, Adam Schiff started pricing flights to non extradition countries and and lawyers are salivating over all the possible lawfare. Elon becomes meme, Kobe gets a statue. Grock 3 makes light work of game Dev and Jeff Bezos asks the world who the next James Bond is going to be.

[Drew]

Drew the revolution will indeed be televised because here we is and it's all happening.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

It's happening, it's happening. Can't we all just get along, man? I don't understand what all the beef is. You know, we're all here together saying

[Drew]

it, same country saying it. We can do it. The beef.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The beef is easy enough to lay out.

[Drew]

But our boy Vance talking to Europe, talking about the need for some shared values, want people to hear this clip, but also want them to contextualize it with Inside America as well. I think the following statements ring true.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Happy, let's jump into it.

[Interviewer]

Make Latin America great again. And so in essence, I think your message was very well received by many of those conservative leaders across the globe. But what does this mean with the U.S. now that you know, in giving that speech, what does this mean with the US Relationship with Europe?

[Vance]

Well, look, obviously we're going to continue to have important alliances with Europe, but I really do think the strength of those alliances is going to depend on whether we take our societies in the right direction.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Think about this.

[Vance]

Germany's entire defense is subsidized by the American taxpayer. There are thousands upon thousands of American troops in Germany today. Do you think that the American taxpayer is going to stand for that? If you get thrown in jail in Germany for posting a mean tweet? Of course they're not right. So the point that I try to make to our European friends, and I think that they're our friends, I believe that I know President Trump does, is that friendship is based on shared values. You do not have shared values if you're jailing people for saying we should close down our border. You don't have shared values if you cancel elections because you don't like the result. And that happened in Roman Romania. You don't have. You do not have shared values if you're so afraid of your own people that you silence them and shut them up. So let's have shared values. Let's defend democracy. Let's have free expression, not just in the United States, but all over the Western world. That is the path to strong alliances in Europe.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, we, we are witnessing before our very eyes the changing of the world order. Where we've had this incredible stability is probably the right way to think about it for 70ish years. And now all of a sudden, we're beginning to realign. We're telling people, you're gonna have to pay your fair share in terms of the NATO fees. You're going to have to start considering what we think about your policies if you want us to be a part of your defense. And I don't know what way people are going to bounce, given that we are the strongest military on planet Earth, with some potential exceptions for China, given that we are the strongest economy, with some potential exceptions for China, I think that we're going to have a lot of poll, but it's going to be very interesting to see because I don't think that Europe is just going to go, okay, you want us to do it your way, we'll do it your way. It's not going to play out like that. Sovereignty is a big thing. This is why I think that the whole Canada's 51st state thing is not

[Drew]

as

[Tom Bilyeu]

simple as Trump wants it to be. I think there would be. Even if it would be better for them, I think people are going to push back wildly because they see themselves as Canadian, the Germans see themselves as

[Drew]

German, and people want to do things the way that they want to do things. And if we're now going to make that contingent, if we're going to say, hey, we're not going to keep supplying you with the aid that we've been supplying with you because I'm not sure that we continue to share values. It could get very weird. So it'll be very interesting to see what Europe's response is to Vance, and it's interesting to see Trump continue to position Vance as the one to put forward these international policies and say the hard things. He made quite the stir when he gave the speech on AI. AI needs to be about innovation before safety. He didn't say those exact words, but that was certainly the way that it was read by the Europeans. And I think honestly, it was a fair way to read it. Um, and so putting him out there, having him again, clearly messaging to international allies that this is a new world order.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yeah. And I'm starting to see a common thread where it's obvious that they are now adding an asterisk to all the funds and the money that we're giving out. It used to be America got it so everybody else can get it and we just want democracy and freedom around the world. But now it's like, okay, what are you actually doing? What are you actually. It's almost like we're doing an international audit just as much as we're doing an internal Doge audit.

[Drew]

For sure. I many of the things that they're focused on at Doge is where's all this money going? So much of the money was going abroad, I think, for sure. I was really shocked by the percentage of money that was going out of the country. And for all the things that it was listed for was really sort of mind bending. Now I completely understand that a lot of the things that it stated that it's for is not actually what it's for. That I'm sure a very distressing amount of this stuff is for covert operations. Things that we think allow us to destabilize the government to get access to whatever it is that we want access to is probably more true than just taking things at face value. But still, when you're doing the kind of deficit spending that we're doing, the idea of just really beginning to taper that stuff off, I think is it isn't going to be only good. I want to be very clear eyed about that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But when you've got the kind of

[Drew]

problems that we have at home created by the need to print money because of the deficit spending, I think it makes a lot of sense to start with things that are going to other countries. But for anybody paying attention, there are consequences to taking a more Protectionist standpoint. So this will not be a free lunch.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

We'll see. And it's interesting because Trump spoke at the National Prayer Breakfast, and he said something similar in a different way. I want to tie these two together. Let's hear what Trump said.

[Donald Trump]

Great group of people. If we could ever come together, it would be.

[Drew]

Pause it for a second.

[Grainger Announcer]

That.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That was the quote that really got me on this. I think it is. It is so true that dividing an enemy is exactly how you defeat them. If you can get them battling against each other, you just take them off the chessboard. And the fact that America has been so increasingly divided for basically since the end of the Cold War, we just haven't had that gravitational center that held us together, and we have really started going apart. But hearing Trump, who is. Is. He is a divisive figure in that people respond so negatively to him. It doesn't matter whether I think he should be as divisive as he is. He is divisive. And he may simply represent something that's already there.

[Drew]

Yes, for sure.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But hearing him extend that olive branch, and I've heard him say this a

[Drew]

lot, and maybe this time because he

[Tom Bilyeu]

has such a different tone in his voice because he's at the prayer breakfast,

[Drew]

it really hit me. But he's so right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

If we could find a new gravitational center as a nation to bring the two sides together that can say, okay, look, we're arguing over what we think the best way forward is, but we all agree on what the best way forward or. Sorry, we all agree on where we're trying to get to. Man, that would be really, really incredible. I talk a lot about the need for the tension between the two sides. There's an evolutionary that. You have people on the left, high compassion. You have people on the right, personal responsibility. You need the tension between those. Those are both evolutionarily extremely valuable for getting a lot of people to cooperate.

[Drew]

And I think that whether it was the new atheist movement or whatever, there was a throw the baby out with the bathwater moment where we said. And this. This is me saying it, because I understand a lot of people really believe it is literally true. I am not one of them. But in saying that religion isn't literally true, and therefore it's a joke and it's a waste and we need to get rid of it, that we didn't realize that we were trying to build a model of the universe and saying, throw out gravity. And now all of a sudden, everything flies apart. And you're like, oh, shit, this doesn't hold together. And we, we need a gravitational center. And I cannot think of one other than what you brilliantly suggested off camera, which was an alien invasion, which, hey, full Independence Day.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Having, having a common will work.

[Drew]

Barring that or the asteroid impact that is potentially in our future. Religion really does strike me as the thing that's tried and true.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Now no one hears the irony of

[Drew]

that more than I, because few things

[Tom Bilyeu]

have divided people more and caused more

[Drew]

death and suffering than the fact that people can't agree on religion. But if we could have a more modern, slightly secular version of religion, Being able to see it as this high

[Tom Bilyeu]

functioning way of passing values forward and

[Drew]

not to get lost in the minutia that caused so many lives over the years about splitting hairs. Like with Catholicism versus Protestants. I mean, it really does get crazy.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But it really could function if we

[Drew]

can sort of smooth the edges off of like the things that people disagree about with religion. But when you have a non believer going, yeah, yeah, yeah, like that really might be the answer. That might be the thing that's going to bring people together. There's something interesting there. So anyway, he keeps going, but I just wanted to touch on that.

[Donald Trump]

Unbelievable. May not happen, but it should and maybe it will. From the earliest days of our republic, faith in God has always been the ultimate source of the strength that beats.

[Drew]

So what was really interesting historically is that you had people like Thomas Jefferson who did not believe in the same way, created his own Bible. I don't know it well enough to know what the parts were that he cut out. I'll let somebody pop off in, in the comments about that, but it's a really interesting idea that is hearkening back to where we started, which was not. Everybody saw it the same way. They knew that they had to have a separation of church and state, which I think is very smart. I do not want to be in a theocracy, that is for sure. But they understood that the shared values that we had as those early Americans was based on the idea of one nation under God. Though I think technically that ends up coming a little bit later. But maybe I'm wrong about that. Anyway, you can have this general idea of. Every life is sacred and that there are certain things that are granted to us by the Creator. And once we have that idea, that gives authority to the ideas, right? So you look at the Declaration of Independence and it calls that out. These are inalienable rights that are given to us by our Creator. Okay, cool. You don't even have to outline who The Creator is. It's just this sense of, yeah, we all share that idea that there's a sacredness to the individual, which I don't think people understand how much America is based on the idea of the sacredness, the, the quite liter. Holiness of the individual. Now as somebody that grew up in that, who really has imbibed that and believes in the sacredness of the individual, I really want. People need something to anchor that around. And if it's going to be God, fine. Like as long as we're not in a theocracy, whatever. I just want people to really believe in the sacredness of the individual, that property rights matter. Like so many things unfold. Once you believe that each individual is the right, as Jordan Peterson talks about, the right level of analysis is the individual individual responsibility, a government that serves the individuals versus a more collectivist look at it where now any one person doesn't matter. This is all just about the, the good of the whole. If we can get people to anchor on that diet ideal, if we can get people to say this is a value and the center or the authority that holds it together is this religious conviction, I'm fine as long as we have that at the core. And I don't see a replacement for it if somebody does. I'm very open because again, I'm a non believer. You're never going to hear me suddenly being like, no, I really do believe. I've accepted Jesus Christ into my heart. By all means, play this clip if I ever do. But I recognize that we need something.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yeah, I'm going to try hard not to preach in this moment, but it's one of those things that I think religion has perversed the idea of God in a lot of different ways. Where God himself never established a religion. God himself. So that's. Read your own Bible. I think the thing that helped the country specifically by having a shared belief in God, it wasn't because it taught everybody how to think, or it wasn't that it taught everybody who was right and who was wrong, but it at least gave us a unified playbook. We had a unified set of standards. We had a unified set of things that were like, if we live our lives this way, this is how we are going to prosper. And that's at its core essence what the relationship with God is supposed to be. It's how do I live my life in the best way possible and to help the people around me. And if you come to a new country, you're literally trailblazing. That's how it was supposed to be. Now, yes, the Bible is used to justify slavery, and yes, there was a whole massacre to establish the US So I'm not saying that these people came were religious zealots or anything like that, but the fact that now they can tell their children, hey, be nice, be kind to your neighbor, the golden rule, do unto others as you want to do on yourself. That's a Bible verse. The, you know, don't. There's all these standard euphemisms and, and moral kind of sayings that are just so ingrained in our society that are rooted in this religious standard that was the baseline for our thought. So I think now what happened is when everybody got their own truth, everybody then got their own facts. And now we have two people arguing about something, and they're not even in the same universe. We're not even talking about the same set of standards, set of facts, set of ideas. It's almost like if a fish is arguing about a bird, living standards, and it's like, yes, I'm sure the bird is going to say air is the most important thing, but the fish is also going to say, yeah, I have air, but I need to be wet, but the bird's not. And they're going to be arguing for days until they're both blue in the face. But they're not thinking about the same thing. They're not in the same space. They don't have that same shared ecosystem. And I think that's the one thing that America as a whole is missing, because America itself as the idea. There's too many chinks in armor, there's too many cracks. There's too many things historically that they told us was one thing and it was really the other thing. Even the story of the Pilgrims when we were growing up, oh, the Indians and the Pilgrims, they shared a turkey and they put it on the table. The fact that they're even called Indians when they're Native Americans, and Christopher Columbus just went the wrong way and he landed here and said, oh, Indians now. Like, that was problematic in and of itself. You know what I mean? And it's all these things that with social media and technology, we're starting to uncover all these hidden facts that were never communicated. It makes us stop believing in the things that you told us to believe in.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What's interesting to me is the reason that we can live in a world where there is no agreed upon truth is because.

[Drew]

Stick around. We'll be right back after this.

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[Tom Bilyeu]

The reason that we can live in a world where there is no agreed upon truth is because actual truth is so difficult to pin down. So much of what we think of as truth is simply interpretation. Truth is physics.

[Drew]

So that's why I think the idea of you, you need some authority to

[Tom Bilyeu]

base like do this because X, Y, Z authority. Now, if we could build something on top of physics, great, I'd be all for it. But the reality is a, we don't understand physics all the way. We have not reached a unifying theory of the universe. But even if we did, that simply explains the physical experience that you're having. It explains why your blood pumps the way that it does. It explains chemistry, it explains all of the biological processes, all of that. It explains why plants grow or don't, how the sun works, how it keeps us warm, how it transfers energy. Like it would explain all of that, but it's still not going to explain the human experience. It is not going to explain the way that we have evolved over evolution to interpret our surroundings, to come up with a story that allows us to put in hierarchy the very complicated world and say, oh, only pay attention to these things.

[Drew]

You need some authority to ground all

[Tom Bilyeu]

of those things on. But once you understand that, you're not going to be able to ground it on quote, unquote, truth. Because it simply is the human brain finding a way to put in hierarchy all of the things that it understands and believes about the world so that you can move forward. Because there is not a necessary right or wrong answer. You don't have to go beyond the trolley problem to realize how quick, when you're trying to ground morality in quote, unquote, truth or facts, very quickly it just becomes what people believe you ought

[Drew]

to do in a given circumstances. And the physics of that situation is if you pull the lever, then the train goes one way or it goes the other and it's going to hit again, physics, whatever is sitting on the track. But there is no good, bad, right, wrong on those without some authority at the center to say, this is the thing you should believe, and this is why you should believe it. Religion is like the ultimate because I'm the parent and I said so truly. And if I'm right, that the reason that religion has lasted as long as it has is because it has a high degree of utility and that you can look at religions as being, at least in the time and space that it was hyper useful for. It allowed people to survive better. It gave them a mechanism by which they could meet a stranger and say, oh, we believe in the same God, therefore we're going to cooperate with each other. And that is something that no other species has. You don't have this imaginary mental map that allows you to cooperate across space, across time, across knowing the person or not knowing the person. And so it is one of the things that has allowed humans to be as successful as we are. But the, the idea of authority, that is the full thing I think people need to take away. What I am grasping at is what is the authority upon which we're going to base morality. I talk a lot about, we need, we need to identify and state very clearly where are we trying to end up, what is the end state that we want to get to. Everything else is just what's going to be the most effective and efficient way to get there. And we are going to debate that until the end of time. But you have to have something to ground that final vision in to say, this isn't Tom speaking, this is the Lord speaking. And now all of a sudden it's like, oh, because God said so. And this is exactly why we make gods out of men, because you, you need to grant them some sort of authority to anchor on. And I'm trying to preempt what I think people will push back on it is recognizing that the vast majority of what we think of as true and false is human interpretation, that that is the enemy that we're up against. You're not actually dealing in physics. The only thing that is objectively true, that whether you believe in it or not, it doesn't matter. Like money. If you stop believing in it, it stops working. It doesn't care what you think about it.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Think about a meme coin, sorry, God does.

[Drew]

God very much cares about what you think about it because if you stop believing, it stops working, money stops working. All of those figments of our imagination stop. But gravity doesn't stop working. Gravity doesn't care whether you believe in it or not. Physics don't care whether you believe in it or not. So going back to the trolley problem, which for people that don't know the trolley problem, it's it's usually some variation of there's five people on one side and there's one person on another. If the train were barreling towards the five people, would you be willing to pull the lever to get it to go kill only the one person? And you suddenly realize, oh, damn, like, what am I making this decision on? And then what if it's five murderers versus one person? What if it's one normal person? What if it's five old people versus one infant? Like, how do you start going, oh my God, like, I don't know how to make these moral decisions? That is when you have lost anything with an authority that gives you the answer to those most difficult questions. And so when people say, like, we can architect all of this on the back of just what is objectively true, that that is a fundamental misread of what you believe. As if you simply believe what is true. People don't believe what is true. They. They have made a choice over time about. It's usually invisible, but they, they have made a choice about what to believe is true versus, like, oh, this is grounded in physics. And so because that breaks down, because physics is never going to answer the trolley problem, and the human experience is effectively the trolley problem, over and over and over and over and over and over and over, you run into issues.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yeah, that gap is always going to exist, but I think that's what's happening in this current moment. And Victor Davis Hansen kind of breaks down.

[Drew]

In fact, before you play this, I. Okay, so the reason that what you're about to watch matters so much is you've got the left and the right racing away from each other. Each side thinks that they are right. Because I want to. I want people to listen to this in the context of what we have just been talking about, that you're. When you interpret this moment as a very consequential moment where you have people racing away from each other because they do not have shared values, you can begin to understand why the left thinks what's happening right now is a revolution. That Maga is a revolution. And you get. When you hear him talk, you're going to understand why the right thinks what we just went through was the revolution. Now what I'm saying is neither of them are right there. There is no objective right here. The left is saying, this is how the world ought to be. And the right is saying this is how the world ought to be. And I'm saying without something that has authority to anchor everybody, you're. You're going to just Keep racing apart. This all goes back to Nietzsche and his whole thing. I mean, he, I forget when he was alive, but I think late 1800s, early 1900s, he prognosticated, we killed God and we will never be able to wash the blood off of our hands or God is dead and we'll never be able to wash blood off our hands, whatever the exact quote is. And he was able to see like what's going to happen over time as we lose that anchoring authority.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, with all of that in

[Drew]

your head, watch Victor Davis Hansen and

[Victor Davis Hanson]

they call it the MAGA revolution. It's not a revolution, it is a counter revolution. There's a big difference. This is a restoration, let's use the word Trump restoration. We don't know really, we don't really appreciate what we've been through with eight years of the Obama revolution and the four year more radical third term of Obama using or employing the waxen effigy of Joe Biden. A revolution that we've experienced was a cultural, economic, political, social revolution. It was very similar to the French Revolution under the Robespierre brothers. We should remember what they tried to do. They changed the days of the week, they renamed things, they tore down statues, they went after the church. Does this sound familiar, this revolution that we've experienced? Everything was up for sale. Everything was negotiable. We invented a third gender and rammed it down people's throats. We tore down statues. We said 1776 was no longer the foundational day. It was 1619. We changed the very mechanism that we vote. We went from 70% of the electorate voting on election day to 70% of the electorate not doing that either through mail in or early voting. That was a radical change that had no discussion. It was done by fiat. It was incredible. We looked at girls sports and we destroyed it. We said that transgendered biological males that were now transgender females could compete. They won over 600 medals. They took away from hard working female athletes. We had drag shows among young children. It was an effort to change the entire Constitution.

[Tom Bilyeu]

We stop there. So my bias is on the table. I totally agree with Victor Davis Hanson. I think he's one of the great thinkers and really understands the world through the lens of Realpolitik for sure. But my whole point is that what is he anchoring his belief system on? What am I anchoring my belief system on? It isn't empirical fact. So it is simply me saying that's what I think is the right way to get to human thriving. Where you're going to get as many people as possible in a good place by respecting the sovereignty of the individual, by recognizing the individual as sacred, by understanding that that's the right level of analysis. When you think about, is this working or not working? Going all the way down to the individual.

[Drew]

But I fully recognize that that is a set of beliefs that I have come to adopt over time based on

[Tom Bilyeu]

me running a bunch of experiments.

[Drew]

It is not me saying, oh, I have hard facts on my side. And so that's why, as you. When you have one side, that's like, no, you're the counter revolution, and the other side saying, no, you're the counter revolution, you get this kind of madness. And so there's gonna need to be something. And again, I think the.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The only answer that's on the table,

[Drew]

and I am super open if somebody has a better answer, but the only thing I see is religion.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I feel like at this point, we're just gonna have to wait and see. I think the pendulum is going to keep swinging until we find that thing to ground us. And I don't see that happening in the next next four years. It's just going to be more of a left.

[Drew]

Isn't the asteroid only three years away? Drew, come on now. I watched a whole video with Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and it could be the thing. We've got, what, 3.1% chance of getting struck by an asteroid, but it isn't going to wipe out humanity, everybody. So says Neil DeGrasse Tyson. We shall see.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yeah. Moving on.

[Drew]

This one scares me.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Cash Patel.

[Drew]

This one scares me.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

But Adam Schiff and him have a beef, and I did not realize that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, hard beef.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Let's. Let's check in on them and see what's going on. I'm doing this because we're short for time.

[Drew]

Okay, Fair.

[Adam Schiff]

This is someone we cannot trust. This is someone who lacks the character to do this job. Someone who lacks the integrity to do this job. We know that our Republican colleagues know that the only qualification Kash Patel has to be FBI director is that when everyone else in the first Trump administration said, no, I won't do that, that crosses moral, ethical, and legal lines. Kash Patel said, sign me up. In the first Trump administration, as we are seeing in the second, you rise to the level of your sycophancy. And no one is a bigger or more dangerous sycophant than Kash Patel. This political hack does not deserve to be in this building. He can't do the job. He won't protect the public. He will misuse the resources of the Bureau. He will weaponize it against the president's political opponents rather than the protecting the safety, the public safety of the American people.

[Kash Patel]

Adam Schiff is the worst criminal in Congress in the last 250 years. And what broke that we're going to talk about right now is Adam Schiff met with a whistleblower. Adam Schiff went to the podium day after day after day saying, I know nothing about the this. We're not going to discuss it, we're going to protect it. And then he, Adam Schiff led the prosecution of the impeachment trial in this.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Is this another example of just right versus left? They're both arguing about the T and not the actual thing, or do you think that they have some.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The thing to zoom in on here is Lawfare.

[Drew]

And I really, really, really worry that all we're going to see is all the lawfare that was happening to Trump, which seems patently obvious to be lawfare. Even if you've got a president that has done things that are criminal, look at the way that they handled Nixon. You say it's not good for the country to go after this guy. We need to look forward. Now, the conundrum that I think that we're in is you're going to see Lawfare go from the left over to the right, and now they're just going

[Tom Bilyeu]

to go after the left as hard,

[Drew]

or that's certainly the opportunity before Trump. And so if he does that, you are, it's. It becomes gang violence. And it's just like you got one

[Tom Bilyeu]

of mine, so I'm going to get one of yours.

[Drew]

Now, the hard thing to deal with

[Tom Bilyeu]

here is what do you do when you have people that are doing criminal activity? You can't just turn a blind eye. And if it's getting so rampant that

[Drew]

you're now having a government that is collapsing under the weight of its own corruption, because you're never going to get to zero corruption. So I'm really worried that. Hang tight will be back in just a moment.

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[Drew]

You're now having a Government that is collapsing under the weight of its own corruption because you're never going to get to zero corruption.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So I'm really worried that people are going to.

[Drew]

Instead of saying, look, I'm going to hold. In terms of looking backwards, I'm going to hold a really high bar for me to pursue somebody. Like, they will have to have done something so insane that, you know, we're going to go after them. Take January 6th. If you didn't show up with a weapon, we're not going to pursue you. Okay, cool. Even if you believe this really was an attempted coup of the government because of partisan bias, we are not going to pursue anybody that didn't bring a weapon or anybody that didn't actively assault a police officer. Okay, cool. At least you're saying this is a really high bar. Even though you're like, mortified to your core that people tried to storm the Capitol, that it strikes me as the only way forward, that somebody somewhere has to turn a cheek and say, yes, I was wronged. And yes, that's egregious. And yes, by the letter of the law, we could go after them. But the reality is there's a reason that there's a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is we want to make a stable country that allows people to thrive as individuals. That's the spirit of the law. Everything that we put on the books

[Tom Bilyeu]

is to try to do that, to

[Drew]

make a place where the individual can thrive, that we're protecting everyone's ability to have a shot at thriving. Okay, so it is a collective notion in that sense. It's not like if one person's winning, all is well. But you want to make sure that you have this even playing field where you're minimizing corruption as much as humanly possible. You're giving everybody a chance to get educated and really do something great, that the government more or less stays out people's way. And the only time that they step in is to make sure that the playing field is not becoming corrupt. Okay? If that's the spirit of what we're trying to create, then it's like if you're over indexing on the letter of the law to go in and bludgeon people and say, you know, we're going to give these people crazy sentences because it's politically advantageous for us to do so, dude, at some point somebody has to have like some fucking honor and integrity and say, I'm gonna take it on the chin and Trump is poised to do that. They tried to kill me. There were two assassination attempts on my life. Literally got shot in the ear. But I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to pursue them. I don't know if he has the ability to avoid that. I don't know if he's going to be able to say, look, Cash, I get it. A lot of rhetoric up to this. It's not the right play. Let's focus on moving forward. Because we do, like, if there's been a ton of corruption, you don't just shrug it off and be like, well, it would be bad for, you know, be a bad look for the country. So we're just going to let it get as crazy as it wants. But you say, look, this is a dawn of a new era. I'm not worried about looking backwards. I'm only thinking about looking forwards. Now, if people start doing crazy, we are going to address it. We're going to have transparency. We're going to draw this stuff into the light, and we are not going to take this sitting down. The mechanisms of the government with the checks and balances are exactly what they're meant to be. And Trump has thankfully said the right things about, if anything, an EO or whatever that I put forward. If the court strike it down, cool, I'm gonna listen to that. I'm gonna appeal, I'm gonna continue to fight, but I'm gonna use the actual mechanisms. But God damn it, if he just ends up doing the same lawfare against the left that was done to him, that's really fucking terrible.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Race to the bottom.

[Drew]

A race to the bottom. Very well said.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

All right, I got some quick hits.

[Drew]

Let's do it.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Donald Trump is funny, man. He just announced that Kobe Bryant will get a statue in the National Garden of American Heroes. Love this idea. I think it's going to be amazing. It's just interesting that I'm going to see how people try to spin it as a bad thing. But I feel like Trump knows how to get the small wins that make. That will last longer than he does. But it's one of those, like, funny, interesting.

[Drew]

I'm not tracking. Say, say the quiet part out loud. What do you mean that this for?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

For Trump to be the one to put the Kobe Bryant statue up. It's going to make people feel, like, conflicted because people love Kobe.

[Drew]

Wait, wait, can I say what I think you're saying?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yeah.

[Drew]

This is a biscuit to the black community, and they're going to be so excited. By this little thing that he's offering them that they're going to forgive bigger injustices.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Not even the second half of that statement. I feel like it's Kobe's bigger than basketball. Kobe's bigger than the black community. Whereas, like he is a staple in la. Like Los Angeles shut down for a day when Kobe, like, like, like killed. So it's one of those things that like, he meant so much to so many people and for Donald Trump to be the one to then sit, like, hey, let me recognize that. It's an odd to. It's, it's a notion to a community that I don't think would overlap with it. Like NBA players aren't checking for Trump. Maybe they are. And I'm just still in 2016. But it's just, it's a very kind of. I didn't, I didn't see that on my bingo card in 2025.

[Drew]

But you're excited about it.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I'm happy for Kobe to be recognized forever.

[Drew]

Are you happy for all of us Americans to celebrate Kobe Bryant?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yes.

[Drew]

Okay, word. But there is something lingering in there

[Tom Bilyeu]

that I'm not sure.

[Drew]

I don't remember who it was. And God, I'm very upset with myself that I did not pull this clip. There was a clip of. So Trump was doing something. It was the announcement of the statues in the garden and he brought somebody up on stage. I unfortunately don't know who. This was African American. And he was like, Trump is the greatest president ever. And I was like, holy fuck. Like to have imagine that in 2016, like people would have lost their ever loving minds. Now are you excited that the black community is getting behind Trump and whatever percentage they are like now. Fuck that.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I don't think the black community is getting behind Trump. I think.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Should they.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I don't think the black community should get behind any political candidate because America hasn't cared about the black community as a political class. But that's another, that's another conversation.

[Drew]

It is. But don't you just think it's a numbers thing? They only care about who's going to get them elected.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

No, it's, it's.

[Drew]

You don't like that morally or you disagree with it factually?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I disagree with it factually.

[Drew]

Okay. Give me the facts, Tommy.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I'm. Now you making me frank, though. We don't have time for this. Okay. It's, it's a, It's a limited voting class. Yes, yes. It's a limited voting class. We got. There's a. The demographics have shifted. The Focus on the black community is no longer as important to the Democrats as it once was. So now that they have a new class of people, whether it's the lgbtq, whether it's the Hispanic population, whether it's the immigration, the people that are allowed to stay after, with Trump's new eos, I don't know how many people will stay, but they have now shifted and they lost their political power. So now I think the black community is kind of political homeless because while some people are going to the right, the right has still much very classic right Republican racist rhetoric that some black Americans are not willing to forgive or look past. And then on the left side, they just feel like they've been left. Whereas Trump can come in, in the first hundred days, give high fives to every community and everybody that helped him, including the black community, with this nod. And meanwhile, Joe Biden, Barack Obama and some of these other people that were in office weren't able to do nearly enough specifically for the black community as they were once promised.

[Drew]

So here's my take. Thank you for that. I would say the right thing for any community to do is say it doesn't matter what was happening in the past. I don't even care if Trump failed you in term one, is he going

[Tom Bilyeu]

to do good shit for you right now?

[Drew]

And are the things that he's doing beneficial for as many people as humanly possible? Is it creating the soil in which all individual Americans can thrive? If answer yes, do more. If answer no, do less. So personally, I love to see because I believe that on balance, because Jesus Christ, am I looking sideways at Trump on a lot of things that he doesn't says. But on balance, I think that they're headed in the right direction to create the soil in which the most individuals are going to be able to thrive. So I love seeing people get behind him no matter where they're from. I loved seeing more people in the black community, Hispanic community, moving over to Trump because again, I believe that as of right now, today, on balance, that he's doing more things that are going to create that soil, driving the deficits down. Big win for me. Releasing files and creating transparency in the government. Big win for me. I know that Elon is not popular right now, but the getting the greatest capital allocator of our time to help turn the government around, like, that's a big win, man. We all know my inflation rant, but it's like, imagine for a second that I really believe what I'm saying and that that is a theft from people that stops them from getting ahead and we're actually going to stop doing it. So anyway, I would love for people to look at that and if it's positive for your community to celebrate it and be stoked. I look at it though, if I'm honest. This exact moment, this is a bit of a right turn. But Booker T. Washington wasn't in there. Now, boy, do I expect to get lit up for this belief. Or at least I would have in 2012. The story of Booker T. Washington, me is so inspiring. Like, it's crazy. He wanted to build. Build a school, not take a building over that already existed. He wanted to build a school and so he made everybody learn how to make their own fucking bricks. They became the highest quality brick maker in the region such that everybody started buying from them because they're like, God damn, like, how do you guys make such high quality shit? It still stands to this day. Anyway, read a biography on him. Was absolutely blown away. So I was very sad. I literally was scanning through the list to see if going to be on it.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

So do you think so? Kobe Bryant shouldn't be the win.

[Drew]

Kobe is my hero. That guy's so legit. I just wish there was at least one more. And look, you have to draw the line somewhere. I just have a particular fascination with his approach to the world. His approach to the world is, I mean, ironically, because this is something I got from Kobe with boozed on block dunks. But that you can get so good at something, people can't stop you that even if people hate you and they want to see everyone who looks like you dead, you can actually make the bricks so that you can build the school that do that. That is such the embodiment of like my whole life ethos. Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

I don't know.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

What else have you read Miseducation of Negro. WD WB Du Bois. That's interesting. Booker T. And Web were the Malcolm X and Martin Luther King of their times. So they, they were polarizing in their own ways. Different, like backgrounds. But I'm curious to see how EDB DuBois.

[Drew]

There's so many letters there. What is it?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

W.E.B. du Bois.

[Drew]

W.E.B. du Bois.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Did he.

[Drew]

Were they contemporaries?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yes. Did they just like you? I don't know if they were actually friends. I don't know what their personal relationship was. But they were always. You were either camp of this or camp of that.

[Drew]

Got it. So their rhetoric didn't necessarily align.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

No, but they were. They were.

[Drew]

I secretly believe they respected each other.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I think they respected each other. Yeah, even Martin Luther King. Yeah. You respect each other, especially in public. Moving on. Grok3 is making video games almost out of time.

[Drew]

This is crazy. Okay, so, Elon, I hit you up in the comments, bro. This is incredible. I love this. But for real game development. So first of all, Grok can code in C, which is unfucking believable. So I hit Grok 3 up and said, hey, can you. I. I'm a game developer in Unreal Engine. Can you code for Unreal Engine? It's like, yes, I can. I can write in C, which is the primary language. I can do C. That's good for blueprints, which is how most people interface with Unreal Engine. I was like, holy shit. So we'll see how quickly we can move on that. But what Elon is saying is all we have to do is up res the visuals of the game. He is wrong about that. As somebody who's been in the trenches of game development for the last three years, I will just tell you right now that there are very minute changes that make a huge difference in the satisfaction that you feel as a player when playing it. This is awesome. This is a huge step forward. I'm just, just. Elon, I beseech you, as a game developer, please, you've got to think about developer controls as you build this out. Shout out to Runway ML, which, by the way, one of the people on the Runway ML team used to work for me. Crazy. What a small world. Shout out to not Ian Sands on Twitter that if. If he gives the controls that, like, Runway ML is going out of their way to give people the ability to control the camera and all that stuff. If he does that. In game developments, you can make minor tweaks. Minor tweaks, minor tweaks. Or even feed it like, this is how I want Grok 3. Give me the 3D model. I'm going to do one little animation to show you exactly how I want the head to turn and now replicate that. Because game development is often little movements over and over and over and over and over and over and over. And I think that that's a good thing. I don't think you want to constantly be just guessing what the next frame would be, which clearly it's outputting code, so that's not just what they're doing. But, man, you've got to give developers that level of control so they can go in and make these minor tweaks so that you can create something truly original. Because if AI only output, it's like generic things that are the amalgamation of. I'm giving you code based on what most things would look like that I know historically, everything will just sort of become this sort of gray blob. But if you allow me to go in and make little tweaks. Little tweaks, little tweaks, then I can be the Quentin Tarantino of filmmaking, where I surprise you and I do something nobody else has done. That many people think, oh, my God, this is terrible. But it's so unique in such a clear voice that, like, the people that are going to be into it are going to be way into it. So, Elon, this is my. My prayer to your team. Please, guys, Please. That would be so incredible as a game. Dev, I just would be eternally in your debt.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Noise. Last but not least, Amazon took over the rights of James Bond, not just the film, but they now get to pick the new person. Who's your guy?

[Drew]

I don't know that I have a guy. If you put a gun to my head. I'd go with Idris Elba, just as, like, a default because he's so cool, but I don't remember how old he is. And it's possible that he would be a bad pick, because you want to think about. You want to get 10 to 12 years out of any Bond, and so he might be in his mid to late 40s, and so probably not the play. You want somebody that's like 31, 32, which is why Eunice's vote for James McAvoy gets a hard pass. For me, I want to see somebody that's, like, in the aggressive prime of their male life. The. The whole fantasy of James Bond is that he's suaver than you. He's got access to more gadgets than you. He gets laid, he gets the kills. Like, it's. It's the ultimate male power fantasy of very intellectual, very good with the ladies, and very good with the gun. And so you could. She also called for a Timothy Chalamet Bond. Oh, he's so physically frail. Timothy Chalamet, I love you the most as an actor. You're fucking unbelievable. But I want.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I stood on it that Timothy Chalamet might be it, because, you know how it.

[Drew]

Because you want him to Roy it up?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

No, because, you know, Robert Pattinson, they made him, like, emo Batman. And, yeah, like, it was a new perspective of, like, Batman. Instead of being this brooding, aggressive, emo Bond, I feel like this could be, like, how Bond became Bond.

[Drew]

So this is, like, so out of touch with culture.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

No, like, this is like, this was Bond before. He gets his first heartbreak. And then he's like, now I'm grizzled. And then in Bond 2, he comes back roided up, and now I'm just killing people. So you got. You start to see, like, his art.

[Drew]

Oh, people would hate the first Bond so much.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

It'll be like a. Yeah, it'll have to be a three film series because you can't the first one. So.

[Drew]

Yeah. Weak emo Bond to begin heartbreak.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yeah.

[Drew]

Maybe up a mission.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Somebody's mom gets killed or something.

[Drew]

Yeah, maybe. If you'll let me. He gets like a. A neuro implant in his brain. No losing you there. But I like it. He comes back in the next one. He's jacked.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Exactly.

[Drew]

And he's faster than everybody runs faster.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Yeah. Now he's back to being him. But I feel like we need to see. Just like with Batman Begins. Begins. Terrible. Dark Knight amazing. You need to. You need to.

[Drew]

You didn't like Batman Begins at all.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I mean, in the grand scheme of Batman movies, it's not in the top five, but it was good. I love Christopher Nolan. He could do no wrong in my eyes, dude.

[Drew]

Well, Christopher Nolan, I love you, but if I could ask you to just dumb things down a little bit. Your is hard to follow. And so in. What was the time one where you're

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

listening all the time? That's it.

[Drew]

No. How dare you, Drew, what was the one where he's playing backwards?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

10.

[Drew]

Yeah, come on. There's no. You followed the whole fucking thing.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I loved in it.

[Drew]

I didn't say did you love it? I said, could you track the fucking

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

narrative thing like three or four times?

[Drew]

Could you track the narrative? Drew, I'm gonna put you in a lie detector. Could you track the narrative?

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I'm be honest. My take on Tenet is. I hate that this is the black episode today. My. My take on Tenet is that this is the first time he has a black protagonist and he doesn't have a name.

[Drew]

Interesting.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

So I had more beef with that than the time thing.

[Drew]

Okay. All right.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

That's all I got. I'm gonna lose my job.

[Drew]

I'm gonna lose your job.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

I'm joking.

[Drew]

I'm joking. So Christopher Nolan, if I could just PSA really fast. Come on, brother. You gotta, like, really just a smidge. Come back to planet Earth. I get it. Your brain is big.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

We just want to see some blood. That's like.

[Drew]

I want to be able to follow the narrative. So I'm not just watching it because it looks cool. I actually want to be invested in the stakes of that shit. All right, everybody, that's it for today. We are out of time. If you are not already joining us for episode prep, you are missing out, boys and girls. Go subscribe on YouTube. Or I guess you're probably here on YouTube @Tombillu is the place to be. Let's do it, everybody. Thank you for joining us for the Tom Billy Show. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.

[Co-host Drew or Guest]

Peace.