After Impact: Dr. Shefali (Replay)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: After Impact – Dr. Shefali (Replay)

Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu
Date: September 28, 2023
Episode Theme:
This episode of After Impact dives deep into the paradigm-shifting philosophies of Dr. Shefali, a clinical psychologist renowned for her work integrating Eastern philosophy with Western psychology—specifically her concepts of conscious parenting and radical self-awareness. Tom Bilyeu and co-host (Agent Smith) unpack Dr. Shefali’s most disruptive, uncomfortable, yet transformative ideas, emphasizing the universality of her teachings—not just for parents but for anyone intent on personal evolution.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Myth-Busting Parenting: Challenging the idea that parenting is founded on "unconditional love" and selfless devotion.
• Conscious Parenting Philosophy: Explores Dr. Shefali’s call to radical presence, ego dissolution, and meeting reality “as it is.”
• Universal Human Application: While focused on parenting, her insights are applicable to all relationships—including with oneself—and anyone seeking to navigate reality more skillfully.
• Integration of Eastern Wisdom: Discussion of be-in-the-now principles, Buddhist/Taoist underpinnings, and how Tom’s personal journey has been shaped by these ideas.
• Audience Engagement: Live Q&A explores how to mend broken relationships, create personal meaning, and grapple with parental/cultural expectations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Priming Yourself for Disruptive Ideas & Change

• Openness to Transformation
  • Tom shares a practice (he dubs “the reader’s prayer”) before learning from books or talks:
    "I'm open to being changed forever and for the better by this book, by the information in this talk, whatever… make it a part of your identity that you’re always open to being changed." (Tom, 04:12)
  • Emphasis on the need to consciously remain open, especially when ideas challenge cherished beliefs.

2. The Uncomfortable Truth Behind Parental Love

• Conditional Love Myth
  • Dr. Shefali’s claim that being a parent is not about loving your child in the selfless, unconditional way society prescribes.
  • Tom’s realization:
    "Her answer in the episode is so real that…the only reason to push back is if you’re triggered…there’s so much you in the ‘we’…so many of your desires to be loved back… that is about you." (Tom, 05:24)
  • All relationships—including parent-child—are exchanges of value, not transactions, but "conditional" nonetheless.
• Cultural Pendulum
  • Society upholds the myth of unconditional parental love (“especially mothers”) as virtue; Dr. Shefali dismantles it as ego-bound and unattainable.

    "She is asking people to remove themselves from a pedestal…It's unconditional love, right?...She’s saying that's total [BS], and you just–who else is saying that?" (Tom, 08:02)

3. The Core of Conscious Parenting

• Presence and “Isness”
  • Dr. Shefali’s core: meeting each moment as it is, without ego, judgment, or control.

    “Don’t pass judgements on what is. She calls it the ‘isness’ of what is…For example, you’re trying to have a wonderful day on the beach with your child, but your child has diarrhea…Rather than fighting against it, just deal with it.” (Tom, 11:11)

  • Parallels with Eastern philosophy, especially Daoism and Buddhism—being “like water,” as Bruce Lee describes (13:00).
• Ego Reduction in Parenting
  • True conscious parenting is about accepting and responding to your child as a separate being—not an ego extension.
  • You can only be present if you set aside your desire to control or mold the child to fit your hopes and reputational needs.

4. Eastern Philosophy’s Influence

• Tom’s Eastern Roots
  • Personal backstory: Deep study of Taoism/Buddhism shaped Tom’s worldview, though he diverges from embracing non-striving ("anti-Buddhist credo" of pursuing potential) (16:00-16:45).
  • Value of wanting/desire versus acceptance, and the tension between them.

5. Parenting Decisions, Ego, and the Child-Free Choice

• Personal Reflection
  • Audience Q: Did Dr. Shefali’s ideas alter Tom’s decision not to have kids?
  • Tom’s answer:

    “She triggered my ego in the episode…here I am getting sucked into my ego about the fact that I don’t get sucked into my ego…It might have given me ‘new analogies,’ but my core reasons remain: I’m selfish, and watching a child suffer to grow would be very hard for me.” (Tom, 18:58-22:09)

  • Self-awareness about the impossibility of “perfect” parenting—everyone messes up their kids in some way due to ego.

6. Creating Personal Meaning from Experience

• Mythologizing Your Own Life
  • Tom describes the deliberate construction of life’s narrative as a personal mythology:

    "We are meaning-making machines. So I didn’t find meaning. I made meaning…Your job is to create the movie from your life." (Tom, 22:44)

  • Necessity of extracting lessons and patterns to inform future growth, instead of expecting life to unfold like a film script.

7. Healing Damaged Relationships & Redefining Family

• Does a Broken Parent Relationship Need Fixing?
  • Tom’s advice:
    • First, honestly assess the value of reconciliation.
    • If desired, approach parents with deep compassion, but don’t expect to change them—focus on what you can control: your response, boundaries, and self-conception (26:44).
    • “Meet them where they are”—the “water” metaphor again (30:00).
    • Advanced advice: Even if you respect them and they don’t respect you, remove their ability to influence your self-worth.

8. Fantasy vs. Acceptance: The Parent’s Dilemma (and Life’s Parallel)

• Releasing the Fantasy
  • Quote from Dr. Shefali: “Half of the battle is that we don’t accept our child is not our fantasy.”
  • Tom reframes it for all of life:

    “What if we remove that word child and say half of the battle is we don’t accept life is not our fantasy?”…I believe you should accept life as it is in order to bend and shape it to your reality." (Tom, 32:51)

  • Acceptance is not passivity—it’s the foundation for meaningful change.

9. Boundaries and Discipline—Theory vs. Practice

• Boundaries (Bedtime/Food/Friends)
  • Dr. Shefali’s stance: Structure healthy guardrails, but allow choices within that universe (37:13).
    • Avoid force; guide instead.
    • Example: Give children choices among healthy foods rather than coercion.
  • Tom’s confession:

    “I don’t have the patience for that shit… I would say, ‘These are the rules,’ and be inhumanly consistent.” (Tom, 37:13)

    • Consistency as a lever for behavior change (dog training analogy).
  • Takeaway: Balance between structure and autonomy is nuanced and context-dependent.

10. Power of Now—Tom’s Modern Mindset

• Anchoring to the Present
  • Tom references Eckhart Tolle’s “Power of Now” and applies it in a unique way:

    “If you literally in this breath were turned on in the Matrix and everything up to this very breath were implanted stories and memories to give you context to move forward…change the story as you need to in order to move forward.” (Tom, 43:35)

  • Presence is a tool for rewriting your experience, managing depression, and focusing on actionable change.

11. Conditional Love & Parental Ego—The Hidden Conditionality

• Most Common Forms of Conditional Love
  • Parents often don’t accept average or underachieving children, not realizing their disappointment is rooted in personal ego (46:58).
    • “For any parent to see their child in any way other than as a reflection of them, I think would take a lot of work. I think that’s the default setting.” (Tom, 47:11)
  • The shame parents feel when children don’t perform is often denied, though “it is ugly.”

12. “No Good or Bad Children”—But Are There Good/Bad Parents?

• Shefali’s Frame: Conscious vs. Unconscious
  • Tom hypothesizes that Dr. Shefali would reject labeling parents as good or bad:

    “There’s only conscious and unconscious, and that we should strive to be conscious; otherwise…you’re feeding into that cultural problem.” (Tom, 51:33)

  • Valuing compassionate self-examination over judgment.

13. Do We All Have an “Essence”?

• Individual Potential & Social Conditioning
  • Tom:

    “I think we have an essence…I don’t think anyone is meant to be anything because ‘meant’ implies something overwatching…But humans are wired…You can’t look at a child and say, ‘this is what they’re meant to be.’ It’s a collision of all things that happen to them.” (Tom, 53:42)

  • Conditioning shapes us, but each person’s direction is influenced by choices, environment, and genetics.

14. Practicality & Closing Insights

• Is Dr. Shefali’s Approach Practical?
  • Tom’s closing message: Stay open to challenging philosophies for their potential to improve your life, even if you can’t (or won’t) accept everything wholesale (56:23).

    "There’s always a reason to shut a new philosophy down, and only one reason to remain open to it—and that’s that it can really make you better…Don’t worry about this meaning you were a bad parent…There might be tools here for you to use."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom’s Reader’s Prayer:
  "I'm open to being changed forever and for the better by this book." (04:12)

• On Parental Ego and Mythology:
  "Her answer...is so real that like...the only reason to push back is if you’re triggered." (05:24) "We are meaning-making machines. So I didn’t find meaning. I made meaning." (22:44)

• Eastern Wisdom Echo:
  "Be like water, my friend." (Referencing Bruce Lee and Taoist philosophy, 13:00)

• On Authentic Change:
  "You're going to mythologize your own life. You need to. It's important." (22:44)

• On Children and Fantasy vs. Reality: "Half of the battle is that we don’t accept our child is not our fantasy." (Host quoting Dr. Shefali, 32:08)

• Practical Wisdom:
  "There’s always a reason to shut a new philosophy down…and only one reason to remain open: it can make you better." (56:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Openness to Change ("Reader's Prayer") – 04:12
• Conditional vs. Unconditional Love – 05:24 to 10:45
• What Is Conscious Parenting? – 10:45 to 12:45
• Eastern Philosophy & Tom's Background – 12:58 to 16:45
• Decision Not to Have Kids Reflection – 18:38 to 22:09
• Creating Personal Meaning from Life – 22:44 to 25:57
• Healing Family Relationships (Audience Q&A) – 26:44
• Fantasy vs. Reality (Parents & Life) – 32:08 to 35:18
• Boundaries & Discipline – 37:13 to 42:48
• Power of Now Mindset – 43:35 to 46:37
• Conditional Love Examples – 46:58 to 49:16
• Good vs. Bad Parents/Children – 51:15 to 53:00
• Essence, Conditioning, and Potential – 53:00 to 56:06
• Is This Practical? – 56:23

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Conclusion

This episode provides a rich, nuanced examination of Dr. Shefali’s ideas, ably unpacked by Tom Bilyeu and co-host. It challenges listeners—parent or not—to investigate their ego, meaning-making tendencies, default relationship settings, and the stories they tell about themselves and others. Standout ideas include myth-busting “unconditional love,” the call for radical presence, and the necessity of forging your own internal narrative. Listeners are encouraged to remain open, even (or especially) when ideas are disruptive or uncomfortable—therein lies the path to genuine growth.

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Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

You're listening to the Impact Theory podcast, your source of empowering ideas and actionable techniques from the world's highest achievers. Join host Tom Bilyeu, serial entrepreneur and co founder of the billion dollar brand Quest Nutrition, on a journey to unlock your potential and realize your vision of success. Welcome to Impact Theory.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What is up, everybody? Welcome to what will hopefully be a rousing edition of After Impact. I am your host, Tom Bilyeu, and I am here with Agent Smith, Mr. Bilyeu. Dude, this one is amazing. Oh, man, I love me some Dr. Shefali.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Me too.

[Tom Bilyeu]

She crushed.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yes, she crushed. I was listening to the episode on the way in and it's so good, I want to listen to it two or three more times. It's layered, it's complex. It really requires you to sit with some of these ideas which are very disruptive, very counterintuitive.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Loved it. Can't wait to get into this one.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Agreed.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

All right, welcome everyone. This is After Impact, the show where we unpack the impact of this Week's episode with Dr. Shefali, the one and only. How was that?

[Tom Bilyeu]

That was good. I liked it. It made me think, like, should we do like a Beastie Boy saying, when you say the impact, like we do it together? Y I was like, I'm not so sure about that.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Welcome, everyone on Facebook. Welcome everyone on YouTube. We're now live on both platforms. So we're excited to have everyone here and we're gonna dive into it in just a minute. If you feel like this content is bringing you value, please share it. That helps us grow the community. That's our one ask. And if you haven't seen the episode, highly, highly recommend it. Even if you're not a parent, even if you plan on never having kids. This episode is more than about parenting. It's really about yourself.

[Tom Bilyeu]

100%.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yep. So for a little background, if you don't know who Dr. Shefali is, she is a clinical psychologist specializing in integrating Eastern philosophy and Western psychology. She's a keynote speaker. She's the author of three books. Her latest one is called the Awakened Family. She teaches what is called conscious parenting. This is her idea, which we'll get into in a bit. And let me tell you, she is full of hard truths and no easy answers, no question.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And also just shout out. She's got an event going on. Is it this month? It's called Evolve 2017. I believe it's this month. Go to drshofali.com I'm guessing to find out details.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

We'll put a link in the comments. Perfect.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, she's fascinating. If. And you said this earlier, this is not just for parents, by the way. I'm not a parent. I plan to be a parent. And I found this to be amazing.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yes. All right, so let's kick it off with my first question, which is whenever I feel myself having a really strong emotional reaction to something or pushing back on an idea a little bit, I know that there's something there. So I try to like really sit with it. So I think it's a thread that, you know, I should usually pursue. So how can people, before even getting into this episode, better open themselves up to episodes like this or books or ideas?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, I say what I'll just dub as of right now, this moment, the reader's prayer. And before I go into any book, I say to myself, I don't do it as much anymore, honestly, because I'm so primed at this point. But I really used to. And I would say I'm open to being changed forever and for the better by this book, by the information in this talk, whatever. And just to remind myself to be open to being changed. And it was important to me to recognize whatever my skill set is now, like it's already taken me as far as it's going to take me. And for me to go farther, I have to get better. I have to learn more. So I so want to be changed by better information. That that really helps me remain open. Coming into this one, no different. But she really took me by surprise and some very cherished and long held beliefs that I had. She just like kicking those doors down. So it was, it was very, very interesting. But yeah, I literally just prime yourself by saying something like that. Some variation of that to remind yourself and make it a part of your identity that you're always open to being changed.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

That's awesome. And is there any. What's one of those cherished and long held beliefs that she really turned upside down for you?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, I'll give you the one that I found most shocking and that was when she said being a parent is not about loving your child. And I was like, what? Like that one's pretty crazy. But she breaks it down and it is. Her answer in the episode is so real that like you can't hear it. The only reason to push back is if you're triggered.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Right? Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Where you, you don't want to hear it because basically what she said is that there's so much you in the we like. There's so many of your desires to be loved back. Right. Which is a nice simple one that I think most people say. But that's great. But her point is. Sure, but that is about you. And if you can't recognize that there's a conditional and element to the relationship that your love isn't this sort of what she calls high love that we talk about in media and all that where it's like self sacrificing that the day to day grind. I'm not saying like if a car was coming, I bet that that an overwhelming number of parents would truly push their child out of the way. Take the car. 100%. I don't deny that for one second. But the day to day grind of being a parent, like your own ego is so tied up in it that there really are conditions to love. And so not being a parent, full disclosure. But like that's very clear to me in my relationship with Lisa that there's conditions. Right. My wife literally has rules. I can't cheat on her or beat her. Seem like pretty reasonable rules, but at the same time they're conditions. Right. And so I know that there are limits to that love, that I have to abide by certain guidelines in order to maintain that. So when she said like, basically this isn't just about heaping love on your child, that's not what this is. I found that really, really interesting.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yeah. And it's interesting too because I know you have talked about this on Relationship Theory. Shout out to our other piece of content that's on Mondays with Lisa. You've talked about that. Relationships, I don't know if you've used this word, but in some ways are an exchange or a transaction.

[Tom Bilyeu]

100%. Right.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Like you're giving something.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'LL say exchange of value.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Exchange of value.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Transaction feels a little icky.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Okay. It is, yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's just that word feels.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yeah. So I mean you've, that's something you've kind of known for a while. So I'm interested why it kind of shocked you a little bit when thinking about it from the perspective of a parent loving a child. Is it just because like culturally we talk about that as parents love their children unconditionally.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. And putting it in the context of who her audience is.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So these are parents that are going to be picking up this book. They want to be better parents. And she broke down there's like I think seven myths of parenting and that was one of them. And it really like she is asking people to remove themselves from a pedestal to remove themselves from having any sort of vision of themselves as purely altruistic, of only looking after their kids needs. And you know, this is coming from a clinical psychologist who spends all day, every day with people coming in who sincerely want to get better. But the answer every single time is you're the problem. Right. Like every single time. Which you know, resonates with me. But hearing it in the context of being a parent where it was like, this isn't the, the high love, as she calls it, is essentially non existent in your relationship with your child. And once you understand that it is conditional, once you understand that your ego's tied up in it, then like we can get to what this is really about. And like that was very surprising because like you said, when you think of parenting, we're asked as a society where I'm putting everything in air quotes. They have no idea why we're asked as a society to buy into what is quite frankly in the day to day grind of myth, which is that parents are, it's the. Oh God, the. How am I blanking on this phrase? There's unconditional love. Right. That, that's, that's how parents, especially mothers, get a lot of credit for this, that they come to the tables purely altruistic. It's unconditional. And she's saying that's total. And you just. Who else is saying that? Like it. And it's one of those, that it snaps you out of the, like it's culturally acceptable to as a parent say that this is unconditional love. And we all go, yeah, yeah, yeah, like 100. If some, like literally, if somebody had come on the show the day before her and said being a parent is about unconditional love, I'd be Like, absolutely. And so for her to come on, and then when. When she says it isn't about unconditional love, there's all kinds of conditions, all kinds of ego, and you hear it and you're like, huh? 100%. Like, that resonates with me so completely. So. Because it resonates with me completely, because there isn't a single relationship in my life that's unconditional. Not one. Not with my parents, not my wife, not my dogs. Like, you look, you push it and you try to go as far as you can. It's not like you're at all dismissive or not like, really trying to have a broad scope of what you'll, you know, allow yourself to go through to help that other person. But at the end of the day, like, we all have those things. If my wife betrayed me, that's it done. That is disco. So she just is saying it. Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yeah, I love it. Let's go into her. Her concept of conscious parenting and kind of what that means, and then I have a couple of questions surrounding that. But can you just give a quick summary of her idea of conscious parenting?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So conscious parenting is being in the moment, being in the now, stripping away your own, which, by the way, there are entire libraries full of books required to understand what people mean when they say be in the now.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yeah. Eckhart Tolle, right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Eckhart Tolle is but one of the voluminous amount of works that have been done on the topic because it's deadly simple. And yet everything about the human mind is trying to pull you out of the moment. So don't pass judgments on what is. She calls it the isness of what is. Like, just that it is. So the. The best example she gave is you're trying to have a wonderful day on the beach with your child, but your child has diarrhea. And so now it's not just about the waves and beautiful nature. It's human feces, excrement and changing diapers, horrific smells. And she was like, if you get annoyed with that and you're fighting against it, you exacerbate the situation because the diarrhea is real. There's no way to make that not real. So since it's real, rather than, like, pushing back, being annoyed that it's happening, just deal with it. And so that's that. That notion that's tied in with reduction of ego. Okay, this isn't about me. Reduction of fighting against what is. And this is something that. That I've talked about for a very long time, which is don't deal with the world the way you wish it were. Deal with the world the way that it actually is. So that doesn't mean that over the long run, you don't try to make changes and all of that, just as you would try to figure out what gave your child diarrhea and try not to be back in that position. Position again. But the fact is, the world is the way that it is right now at this moment. And if you can be conscious, as she calls it, there's a total acceptance of what is. And so now we're going to address that. We're not going to fight. We're not going to rub ego all over it.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yeah. And some of these ideas, I think that you're attuned to them. And do you think that's because of. Early on, you studied a lot of Eastern philosophy and Buddhism? I mean, it's sort of tied back to a lot of that. Right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I. You're asking me something I find so fascinating. Stop me if I totally derail this episode. But I got really, really into Eastern philosophy when I was about 16 and rocked it hard through most of college, both from a spiritual sense of, like, it felt so right. Like, if. If when you listen to Bruce Lee talk and you get the chills, you're just my kind of person. So I would listen to Bruce Lee be like, water, my friend. And, oh, it resonated with me so much because he was such a badass. So he wrote this book called the Dao of Jeet Kune do, which I read cover to cover. Absolutely loved it. And in there he has this sketch of a Taoist warrior. Now Eastern philosophy is known. You know, it's like you imagine somebody sitting on a lotus leaf and meditating. Right. And so he had this image of this badass motherfucker with, like, this huge sword, if I remember right. And I remember thinking, yeah, like, it's this collision of being like water, wanting to avoid the fights, using your understanding and your oneness with the way that the world is, but at the same time not being a pushover. And that resonated with me so much. So I'm going hard on all that stuff. And I don't know how much of that, like, shaped me fundamentally. Like, I don't know. Right. I was 16. My brain is still developing. Your brain doesn't finish developing till you're 25. So has that laid, like, all this groundwork in my life? Because I had a moment where I realized that I was going to. So I at one point actually said, I am Taoist. Right. Would not say that about myself. Now, looking back, it may have been a little bit of youth talking, but there was a moment in college where I actively decided that I was not going to pursue Buddhism because it didn't resonate with me. And I know what comments are coming from me now. It didn't resonate with me to say that I'm going to stay, step out of the stream of life to avoid the suffering by not wanting. Wanting is one of the most intoxicating things in my life. And you will hear in, in a good way and you will hear me talk about, you've got to know what you want. Like, there's gotta be something that's burning inside of you. So I, you can just say that I, I don't get it and I'm okay with that. But the way that it feels internally is. I really went hard on that. It almost certainly has really profound sort of foundational impacts to me that I have not thought through. Literally. You're making me think about this for the. But looking at it, really studying it both spiritually and intellectually, like in the framework of a college and reading all the important texts about. Not many people are going to take you very deep on Taoism. It's a little too niche, but people will take you really deep on Buddhism. So I studied Buddhism quite a bit and actually at one point had considered doing a minor in Eastern philosophy. Like I went relatively deep.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And got to that point where I felt like I actually understood what it meant to no longer want and to like. Desire is the root of all suffering and going. Yeah, that's actually true. But it's also the root of some of the most magical things that humans have ever created because it clicks you into this desire to do more, to be more, to push. And so every episode essentially opens with the anti Buddhist credo, which is, you've got all this potential and whether you do something with it or not is really the, like the meaning of life to me. So it's fascinating. It probably there's something about that notion, whether it's her that's talking about it, whether it's Lao Tzu, whether it's Zhuangzi, which is somebody nobody talks about, but was probably one of my favorite people to read about.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

You should maybe put together a book

[Tom Bilyeu]

list for, you know what's interesting. Oh, where did I put. At one point, the Dao de Jing was either on a list that I sent to somebody who was struggling with like a really particular thing or. I don't know, I told either a lot of people or somebody about that because it is, that book is amazing and it definitely, like there are echoes in what she talks about. Yeah, I'll stop there.

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[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Okay, there's so many questions I have for you, but I want to kick it over to our live audience because you guys have a lot of questions. So thank you for being engaged and participating and for showing up today. We'll start with YouTube. Anthony Morrow says, being that you had the conversation with Lisa, that you didn't want to have kids and made the decision, how would you have approached it differently after learning from Dr. Shefali

[Tom Bilyeu]

if we had had kids or wanted to have kids? Is that the question?

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

I think the question is your decision to not have want to have kids. Would it have been a different conversation with Lisa having knowledge about. And I sort of had this question for you, too. Did it change your thinking on not having kids at all?

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, but it was fascinating because she triggered my ego in the episode and because she was so, like, complimentary about, whoa, you're awakened because you didn't have kids. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in real time, I was like, look, sucker, this is like exactly what she's talking about. Like, people get so sucked into their ego. And here I am getting sucked into my ego about the fact that I don't get sucked into my ego enough to think that I can overcome. So the irony was not lost on me, let me assure you. But would it have, would it have changed? I don't know, man. There's. You get new ideas. It might have given me New analogies and stuff. But, like, one of the reasons I read in swarms is Dr. Shefali planted seeds, right? Like, so I said in the episode, she changed me and researching it. But it's always, like, at the edges, right? Like, it takes a. Like it takes a rough corner and smooths it out. It's not like you can draw a line. And my life was fundamentally different before I encountered her ideas and when I encountered them after. So there's so many years of me contemplating children and all of that that come up to Dr. Shefali that ask me again, like, five or ten years from now. I continue to engage with our content. I get drawn deeper into our world, I begin to make those ideas my own. Then it's like you look back and go, oh, that was actually a really important seed that got planted. Like, when I say that reading the Gunslinger changed my life, right? I didn't realize that at the time. Wasn't like I read. It was like, everything is going to be different now. It was just. I read it and thought, whoa. I thought. I hated reading. This is actually interesting. Which the sum total of that realization was, I picked up the next book. It wasn't that, oh, everything is going to be different now, but now when I look back and it's easy, you know, with hindsight, to pick out this moment. So maybe 10 years from now, I'll be like, wow, like, really, really deeply. And, oh, if I now went back and had that conversation with Lisa, it would be so different. But if I were to, right now, today, for the first time, have the conversation with Lisa, I would say, look, she brings up a good point. I would liken it to the Aristotle or Plato quote, which I did try to look this up, by the way, and I couldn't find the answer easily. And it's the only impossible job is raising children. I've believed that for a long time. The chaos effect, the butterfly effect, is what it seems like to me. I would be armed with more information from her with the, you're going to mess your kids up. And basically that everybody does it because there's so much ego. And that is a very easy concept for me to grasp that, oh, 100% like. And that is the reason ultimately that I. Well, so there's two reasons I ended up not having kids. One, I'm very selfish and I want to live my life, and I don't want to make my life about a child. And then two, I'm utterly convinced that I won't enjoy having to watch them suffer. Knowing that the suffering is what will make them great. It's very easy for me to tell the world that's the truth, because it is the truth. And I don't try to eschew suffering in my own life, as we all know, I lean into suffering. But to ask somebody else to do that, to make them a better person, that I just know my personality well enough, that would be very hard for me.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yeah, very interesting. I also want a bit of a tangent here, but I think this is important. So you just talked about how it wasn't in the moment when you read the Gunslinger that you knew the significance, but looking back. So I think you're very good at looking back on your life and finding meaning in events and also constructing a narrative that is then meaningful to you and informs how you look at your present and your future. I don't think that comes easily to everyone. So how is there anything you can recommend to people for doing that? And just what is the value of doing that?

[Tom Bilyeu]

God, that's a big question. Okay, so I'm going to try to get this really fast because there are some key points. So, one, we are meaning making machines. So I didn't find meaning. I made meaning. You're going to mythologize your own life. You need to. It's important. Why does fiction work? Fiction works because it's a lie. Now, what do I mean by that? It streamlines things. So you're getting rid of all the ancillary bullshit that doesn't really matter. And you're creating this narrative that gives you, like, these markers for how to live in the future. But if you don't have these really clean lines, these clean narrative lines, the messiness that is life makes it impossible to interpret. You just don't know what to do next. The reason that we tell stories is one, to simplify the world. Okay? Like, I've talked to my employees and stuff many times where if I'm up giving a speech, I'm giving you the mythologized version of my life. Now, it's mythologized with intent. It's the only way for it to be usable to you as an audience. It's the only way for it to be usable to me. But if you come to me and you're like, I'm really struggling with XYZ emotionally, and Tom, I'm looking at your life and I'm just thinking, like, it's been, like, so incredible, and you've always made the most out of everything. Then I say, don't get Caught up in the mythology. Let me give you some of the really fucking ugly moments where it was like clumsy and weird and things happen. Like the timeline was fucking bizarre. So that in that moment, it's like, let yourself off the hook. Stop trying to think that your life is going to be like a movie. It's not. Your job is to create. I almost said find. Your job is to create the movie from your life. To figure out, where did I go right? Where did I, where did I go wrong? What are the things that I need to learn from what's the moment? Because in three act structure, I remember if anybody's seen the movie, I think it's Descent. I hadn't watched a horror film in a long time. My wife put it on. My wife and I put it on. We were about to watch it, the credits are coming up, and I said, I promise you they're either going to be having a party or laughter will be the first thing you hear. And of course, laughter is like the first. Even before you see people, you hear them laughing. Now how did I know that? Because you've got to start from about, about as far away as where you're going to end as humanly possible. So in horror films, it usually starts on levity, it starts on a joke, it starts on something funny. Then there's going to be a moment, like at the peak of act. I forget where it is now. I really need to look this up. This is about to become very important to us. But it's either at the peak of Act 2, I think it is peak of Act 2, where it just seems impossible. They're as far away from accomplishing their task as ever. And so finding, like, knowing that in your own life there are going to be those really ugly moments where success just seems absolutely hopeless. And your job now is to still find a way to claw back from that. And just knowing that, like, oh, that's where I'm at in the narrative, can be very reassuring that, you know, this is how it's supposed to be. This is like the structure of the hero's journey. So getting to that streamlined version, which makes things a lesson, which allows them to become codified, which allows you to learn from them, build on top of them and grow. That's the point of using narrative fiction, mythology in your own life. Super critical.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

That was a great answer. Thank you. Let's go back to our live audience and let me just welcome you again. If you're just tuning in, this is after Impact, the show where we unpack the Impact of this week's episode with Dr. Shefali, which, if you haven't seen this, is one you need to see or listen to or whatever you can do to get your hands on it, and probably a couple times because it's deep. Let's do a Facebook question. This is from. This is from Rizwan Mahsani. Hey, Tom. And Agent Smith. How do I, an adult son, heal my relationship with my parents when it has been completely destroyed? We have a big cultural and generational gap.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, here's my honest truth. 1. You have to ask, does it really matter? And I don't know that it does. And so if it is a wildly dysfunctional relationship with people who are completely closed down and are. And I don't know. Right. I don't know if maybe he's the problem. But assuming that that's.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Wouldn't he always be the problem?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, he's always. It's all his fault. Right. So if he wants to reconcile, he's only going to have to look at himself. For sure. For sure. But it takes two to tango, right? So if the parents are 100% completely uninterested in engaging in a meaningful dialogue, at some point, you're just wasting your time. So that's the truth, because I don't. I fully recognize that my parents are more meaningful to me than most people simply because they're my parents. But at the same time, like, if they're so dysfunctional as to be dragging you down, you really have to ask, is it worth engaging? And maybe the answer is not. And I honestly don't pass a moral judgment on that. Now, assuming that you want to have a relationship, then you're gonna have to own. It's all my fault. Like, meet them with compassion. I'll just promise that's the first step. You're not gonna change them so fully. Fully embrace that people have to want to change. I only sort of believe that, by the way. But it looks like this. The amount of time and energy that you would have to put into changing somebody who does not want to be changed is so unbelievably that I do not recommend it. And impact theory is literally my attempt to change people who don't want to be changed, which is why it's at the cultural periphery of storytelling, because that's the only way to incept people. So you can imagine, like, I'm having to build a whole studio to change people that don't want to be changed. So just putting that effort into somebody because they happen to be my Parent does not make sense. Now, the wise path, I think if you've decided, these are people I want in my life, no matter how destructive, whatever. And I think that's also a complete, completely valid choice. And I get it. And there is something intrinsic about that. We want that connection with our parents. So truly, no judgment, but meet them with compassion so that you can enjoy your time with them. Don't think about trying to change them. Merely think about, how do I enjoy a relationship where I meet them where they are? So your parents are where they are. They have the beliefs that they have. And so you've got to. If they're, like, judging you. Excuse me. If they're judging you, if they're pushing you to live a life that just absolutely does not resonate, you've got to figure out what that tactic is. Here's the tactic that I use. So let's say that you're my father and you are like, I can't believe you are pursuing business. Like, that's ridiculous. What are you doing? And I would just say, I totally hear you, and I fully respect that that makes sense to you. I'm just letting you know the game that I'm playing is neurochemistry, and I will at all times act in accordance with that. And so you've got two choices. You can say that to me every time we meet and look back historically and see how, like, much has that helped our relationship? Has it changed my behavior? I think the answer to both is no. Alternatively, you can meet me where I'm at with compassion. We can hang out and really enjoy each other for where we are and the things that we love and all of that. And I really do value having a relationship with you. I want to continue that. But I just want to let you know, like, I'm going to live my life no matter what you say. So, yeah, And I'm being a little bit cheeky in my delivery now, and I was tempted to push it even farther, but I would have that conversation with respect, but I would lead by example. I would show them how I want them to treat me. Probably for a very long time before I had the talk that I just had. Like, in the beginning, I would just deflect. I totally hear you. Respect. And this is a conversation my wife and I have had. Be like, water, my friend. Like, you can try to push me in any direction you want. And like, water, it just moves out of the way, like there's nothing left to push. So I would. I would be so compassionate and impervious to the slings and arrows that they throw at me. I would not let them in any way, shape or form influence how I think and feel about myself. So one thing that you have to do, we give, we give everyone the authority to influence our self esteem and the vision that we have of who we are. And once somebody is no longer helping to build me up, I remove that right from them. Now that's really hard. So let's make this the hard question to answer. What do you do when you have tremendous respect for your mom, your dad, whatever, whomever that person is? You respect them to the ends and you realize they don't respect you. How do you deal with that one? That's advanced class shit. But dude, when you get to the point where you can respect somebody who doesn't respect you based on just like the, what you see them do is impressive to you and is something that you want to do and be able to do and in that fully respect this person, recognize that they don't respect me. But I've removed this one keystone element, which is they no longer have the right to influence how I feel about myself. So, and it is, it is a purely tactical psychological thing where if you have to imagine yourself like pulling that card out or that pin or like whatever it is that you need to imagine or say to yourself so that that person no longer has the right do it and obsess over it. And honestly, like, I believe that you can transcend that. But if every time you encounter them, they make you feel worse about yourself. I go back to the first point that I made, which is you cannot be around them, period.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Wow, that was great. This kind of leads into a question I had. She says this is a quote from the episode Half of the battle is that we don't accept our child is not our fantasy. And this goes into her whole notion of parents don't really love or don't really accept their children for who they are. And I wanted to see because I know this is all about parenting and some people are feeling like maybe it doesn't apply, but is there a way to apply some of this logic to just life in general? So what are your thoughts on saying, if we were to remove that word child and say half of the battle is we don't accept life is not our fantasy, what would you think about something like that?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Wow. I think you change things pretty fundamentally when you do that. So let me answer both. So if recognizing that your kid, let's say that you're a high achiever and you have a kid who is truly, truly average and they, A, they have no real interest in achieving at a high level, and B, maybe they can't achieve. They're just not there. They don't have it. That, to me is, you've got to understand that your child is not a reflection of you and that that's a human being. And if you really do love them, then meeting them with compassion and showing them nothing but love and not trying to change them, but make them feel good like that to me, like, I want people around me to feel better about who they are when they're around me than they do when they're not. And I think that A, is one of the most amazing gifts that we could ever give somebody from an authentic place. Right? You're not faking it, but you find those things that resonate and you really make them feel good about those things that you really have found in them that are worth celebrating. And you celebrate that and you're just there, right? You're not judging, shaping anything. You're just there with them. So that's what I would do if it were my child now, if it were life. And recognizing that life is not your fantasy, I really believe that you have the ability to shape life. And because life is some nebulous thing out there that essentially does not give a shit about you, I don't feel like I don't meet life with compassion. Right. So you can talk about her is ness meet life as it is. And I totally agree with that. But I meet life as it is to find the way to bend it and shape it to my reality. That is why I tell people, deal with the world the way that it is not. I'm not saying accept it, leave it alone. I'm saying recognize how it is. And in that you can find the hooks that you need to now make change. But if you don't first accept the truth of where it's at, you can't ever hope to shape it. But I believe that humans really, really have the ability to shape the world around them. And if you want to make something great grand, if you want to play in a world stage, if you want to make something great grand happen playing a world stage, then you, you need to be aggressively prepared to figure out the way that the world works and then go after those points that you have some leverage over and start making change. So it is fundamentally different how I'd approach it. When it's a human versus my life, that's great.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

And I was really hoping you'd go into that because one of the things, I think one of the themes of this episode is sort of, like she said, being in the moment, accepting what is around you. And I wanted you to be very clear about your position on acceptance versus striving and pushing towards something that is a goal of yours and you can kind of do well. You're doing both in a sense, but you're not just accepting things and stopping, but you're accepting something as it is and then figuring out how. Like you said, you bend it to your will or you change it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Really important.

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[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Let's do a couple shout outs. Linto Thomas from India.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What's up, Linto?

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

We got Georgina Egan from Ireland and Alex International today. Yeah. And Alex Liardini from Verona, Italy.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Whoa. Wow.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

We're all over.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's amazing.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Let's do another question from the audience. Let's go over to YouTube. Thanks again for everyone showing up and asking your questions and for watching the episode in advance. It really means a lot to us. Let's see. Can we go. Can you please go a little deeper on what Dr. Shefali said regarding creating boundaries such as around bedtime? How would you use that to deal with their poor choices regarding tasty food or choice of friends? Oh, God.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So here's where. Here's where, like, I can. I'll give you two answers. One, I'll tell you where she's coming from. And then two, I'll tell you what I would actually do and remind everybody that I'm not a parent for a reason. So what she is saying is that diet is probably the perfect one. The child's brain is not formed and so there has to be guidelines and there's, let's say, a universe of food that you think is acceptable for them to eat, some of which they like and some they don't. So making sure that you help them find the things that they want rather than forcing them to eat green beans, which was the example she actually gave, rather than saying, like, I have dominion over them and I can actually force them to like Literally grab them, open their mouth, cram the food or use my parents style, which was you sat there until you ate your food. And so it was a waiting game. And I remember many a night eating cold ass stew. That was nasty because I hated stew. And my parents essentially heckling me, saying it's only getting worse with every passing minute. So eventually you plug your nose, you throw a tantrum, but you end up eating the food. So she's saying don't do that instead, like what's that world? How do we help the child have their own sense of self, be able to make decisions within the realm of what is acceptable. And the example that she uses in addition to the green beans was bedtime. Right? So if you want your kid to bed at 7:30, but really does it make like, is the world going to come crashing down if they don't go to bed until nine? Not really. So try to like work with them to get them to go to bed. And hiding in between some of what she said was the notion that you're essentially Jedi mind tricking them. She said you start working on them at 5 to make sure that they're in bed, you know. And she's very realistic about you're deploying the strategies of having a more developed intellect, more experience to shepherd them in the right direction without. Without it resorting to do it because I said, or there's some element of force or whatever. All right, so that's Dr. Shefali. I don't have the patience for that shit. So. And this is one of the reasons I'm not a parent. So for me it would literally have been without her wonderful insights. It would literally have been like, these are the rules. And the inhuman amount of consistency that I would pull would. It would just be insanity. So I find that one of the things that children really respond to is I know exactly what the rules are. So Agent Smith came to me not long ago and said, tommy, dogs bark too fucking much. And so it's really beginning to grade on people. And I thought, I think that's a really fair criticism. And so I know what needs to be done. And the answer is I just have to be inhumanly consistent. And I haven't been because I've been prioritizing the business and focusing on all that. But now you're telling me that essentially my children are slowing the business down because it's such a distraction. So now literally just today, people coming, which is always the thing that freaked Wookie out, people coming in and out of the door and she Would just go crazy. Been so consistent. If she barks, she gets locked up to now the point where if she can't help herself and she barks, she'll put herself in timeout, which is absolutely hilarious. But today she was perfect. And I started noticing that every time someone would come in and she would be quiet, she would run up to me and want to be picked up because she's like, I want my cuddles and my attention. I did the right thing, right? And so that was really amazing and that resonates with me. And so I like to say, here's the game that we're playing in this house. This is how things are done. And Dr. Shefali would have a seizure, by the way. This is not at all what she thinks should be done. I'm just being honest about where I'm at in my development or non development. So yeah, rules, strict predictability, meet those rules, all will be well. Now when it comes to softer things like what do you want to do, what do you want to become? To me that's a process purely. And so I would help the child do the work of encountering a lot of things, seeing which ones are interests, help them develop those into fascinations and then develop those into a full blown passion, understanding, mission, all of that. And I think that one of the biggest things is the danger for me would be in rebelling against me. The child is going to rebel against all things. Sort of effusive in language, deeply philosophical. So I would ne like the way that I'm talking now. I would never do that with a kid. My kid, they're not going to listen, right? That's just the way it works. Probably because I'm so unconscious that I would just be pushing them into that they'd be rebelling against the rules. And so one way to rebel against me would be to say I don't want to hear that long winded shit. So you know, fair enough. So I wouldn't use that tactic. Like I can already predict that. So I wouldn't use that tactic. I would really try to just make sure they were encountering a lot of stuff and then make it very clear to them that life has consequences. So for every choice you make, there will be some consequence to that. But at any time, like you could drop out, fail and everything, but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is can you get so good that you can't be ignored. So you know, work on that, get that good, follow the things that are, you know, really, really Interesting to you. And I won't keep going on that as a particular fascination for me as I see it play out in the lives of people that I love and care about. But at the end of the day, her notion of guardrails versus draconian enforcement is. I think she's onto something.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Definitely. And let me just say, with Wookie, it has been a beautiful transformation.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Awesome, man.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Nice work there. This morning we came in and she was just quiet as can be, just hanging out.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Consistency works every time.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Definitely.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right,

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

see here I have a question about. So I want to understand, like, we touched on this a little bit, but just the, you know, she's so big on being present to your now. Enter the moment and with whatever it is that shows up. How much of this thinking around sort of the now and presence plays into your own mindset these days.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So here's the thing. I think that the Power of Now, which, if I'm not mistaken is the exact title of Eckhart Tolle's book, it's like a. It's an important concept. And I think that it lays some foundational things in your mindset to recognize the only thing that's real is this moment. Literally this. And so a thought experiment that I started doing with myself was, what if you literally in this breath were turned on in the Matrix and everything up to this very breath were implanted stories and memories to give you the context to move forward. And if that's true, then assume that that's all malleable and change the story as you need to in order to move forward. Now, that is not what Eckhart Tolle meant when he wrote that book. But that was a huge takeaway for me. So really understanding that if this gets really complicated with quantum mechanics and what time really is and all of that, and I actually find that so interesting. But I will stop myself from going down that path, but hint towards future content. Something that I really want to see come to fruition. So if time is aligned and we are simply like this consciousness that you could sort of slide around that timeline, that to me is. It becomes really clear that we're chemical processing plants, that we are content, context and aspirations. And that tension between where we've come from and where we want to go is what defines how you interpret this very moment. But because of the way that the human body is constructed, you've got the sympathetic nervous system, the parasympathetic nervous system, or fight and flight, rest and digest, and that you can alternate in any given moment between those and it will color everything about your perception about what's going on. So all of that, I think is very important, but ultimately influences more than anything, it just influences my strategies for how I get where I want to go. So it's accepting that things are the way that they are. It's accepting that the human mind works the way that the human mind works. It's accepting that past events color the present, especially when mixed with future desire. Like all of that became very clear and useful in a new way once I realized the only real thing is right here, right now. But to me, it, as that explanation hopefully makes clear, it was just another access point to manipulating my own brain chemistry. So I'm not going to fall prey to long term depression because I understand that. I understand that interplay of the past and the future and how they are coming together with neuroanatomy and brain chemistry to create a certain state, and that that state is by definition transient.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Great. Thank you. Here's a question from Zach Vaughn. What do you think, Zach Vaughn on Facebook. What do you think she would say, doctor, Dr. Shefali would say is the most noticeable or common example of conditional love that most parents would argue?

[Tom Bilyeu]

So what element is conditional that most parents would say is unconditional? Is that you're going to give me that interpretation?

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

I think so, yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, the one that she mentions in the book gave me heartache for the father that had to accept it, which is that he doesn't accept his son for being average. And he was like, what are you talking about? Of course I do. But in reality, it does trigger your ego. For instance, I am. And anybody that watched the 24 Hour Live, it was really pissing me off that wookie was barking and nobody was putting the hammer down on her. So the problem is, if I'm not here, she'll bark again. Because I have been the consistent authority. Nobody else is consistent but me. Other people do it. They're not consistent. So I'm the only one that she's like, she'll look to me to see, like, is he here? Did he see me? And if she makes eye contact with me, that's when she'll put herself away. So when she was barking, I felt that it was a reflection on me that I haven't been good enough, consistent enough to get that dog to not bark. So during the live, it was winding me up because it felt like, dude, I'm better than that, right? But it was about me 100%, which is why it was like triggering me. So for Any parent to see their child in any way other than as a reflection of them, I think would take a lot of work. I think that's the default setting. So just like, my parents are very proud of me. Why? Because my success is a reflection of them, like, 100%. That's how they see it. Right? And so when it's, like, a good thing, nobody really stops to question it. But when it's a bad thing, I think that it's. It ends up causing them to, like, want to jumpstart the child because it's like, hey, you're a reflection of me. But they. They want to believe that that's not true because it is ugly. It's ugly to think that I'm a little bit ashamed when you're not living up to your potential, right? That's not like no one would ever just say it. No one would ever come up to the kid, be like, look, I'm going to be honest with you. You're making me look bad in front of the other parents. Right? Because it's sort of universally recognized as ugly. So even though it's true now they have to, like, squish it down and act like, no, no, no. I just. So I think parents would push back really hard against that.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

And it's interesting, bringing in the darkness. So I think you would tap into that, not being able to, let's use the Wookiee example, have her act in the way that you want her to because you say you haven't been consistent enough or trained her enough or whatever. And I would. In your thinking, you would use that, then to draw upon that as, like, inadequacy or you haven't done enough to push harder and to.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You're absolutely right. So those things, it's weird to be seen because you're 100% correct. That is exactly how I would think and how I'd react. And that was so when. And I hope, by the way, speaking of ego, that I get a lot of credit for the fact you came to me. You had to be vulnerable. You took a big fucking risk to say to my face, hey, your dog barks too much. Which, by the way, you didn't say it like that. But you know me, I like to take things, like, as aggressively and binary as human, seemingly possible. You were very diplomatic, but that was the moral of the story. And in that moment, because of my belief system, it was like this crashing weight of why did I have to wait until somebody said it? I knew it was a problem. And so a, like, pointing at myself. Why'd you wait? B, you know he's right, and C, it's entirely your fault, and you just haven't been disciplined enough. And I used that to get the inhuman level of consistency that had to happen every time, no matter what was going on, to stop her. And sure enough, as the dog whisperer, Cesar Millan will tell you that consistency worked. And now she's quiet. Now it's the price for freedom. Freedom is eternal vigilance. So I can't stop. Like, it's always got to be there. Always got to be there. Otherwise, you know, after a couple days, she'll realize, oh, I can bark, because it's so in her. Like, she. She's funny. I won't derail talking about my own child. But, yeah, she wants to bark.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

One of the myths of Dr. Shefali. What is it? Myths of parenting. I think she has the myths of parenting. Yeah. She says that there are no good or bad children.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Do you think? What would she say? Are there good or bad parents?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Would she say.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Yeah, what would she say?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Whoa.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Did she talk about that at all?

[Tom Bilyeu]

She didn't. Here's my gut instinct, that she would meet the parents with the same compassion that she meets a child. So she would say, don't put the value judgment of good or bad on that. There's only conscious and unconscious, and that we should strive to be unconscious because otherwise, in her words, you're feeding into that cultural problem which she referred to as violence, the violence of separation and all. And I. And I think she means literal violence, but, you know, when you preach bigotry, separation, superiority, that. That feeds into the conflicts and stuff that we have in the world. One of the most interesting things that she said in the episode was, oh, God, the greatest sins in history were hidden behind love. She used better words than that. I should have marked it down because it really, really hit me. But, yeah, agreed. So anyway, I. That's my gut instinct. I don't remember her talking about in the book. It definitely didn't come up in the interview. But that's my gut instinct that you should want to be better to avoid the catastrophic emotional price as well as cultural price, to, in essence, unintentionally denying your child from becoming who they were meant to be. And I'll keep that in air quotes because I don't think anybody's meant to be anything.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

But I wanted to ask you about that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, there's no meant to be.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Okay. So I want to go a little bit deeper, though. In our last Few minutes here. So going back to just to give people context, she says that the process of conscious parenting starts with the parents becoming conscious themselves. And one of the ways they do that is understanding all of the conditioning. Her word that people have culturally through their own parents has been passed on through generations. And sort of unpacking that and realizing it for what it is and getting rid of it because everyone has kind of this essence first that gets replaced by the things that parents are putting into that container. So do you believe we all have an essence? You sort of answered that already.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How about this? Yeah, I think we have an essence. I don't think anything was meant to be because meant implies that there's some something over watching that's like ordained you with something that you're supposed to become or do or whatever. But humans are wired, right? So no, there aren't any humans that come out and have the predilections of a giraffe, right? Just doesn't happen. So we are wired like there are. There's pre programming to the structures of our brains to the way, I mean think about puberty. It's so predictable, right? So there are certain mechanisms that kick in. Certain hormones start flowing through your bloodstreams. There's a predictable response to those hormones. So like all of those things are real. And I'm not trying to discount any of that when I say that you're not meant to be. But despite that, the number of ways that you can go is right now beyond our ability to predict. So you can't look at a child and say this is what they're meant to be. It's going to be a collision of all the things that happen to them. So even if that child were raised by a totally conscious person, they are a social animal that has pre wired desires. The desire to fit in, the desire to connect, right? And so if their behavior leads them to be disenfranchised by the group, they will. The pre written response to that will be insecurity will be fear. Because from an evolutionary perspective, the people that didn't give two shits about fitting in either had to be able to perform better than anyone else so that the group still needed them. So there was connection based on that. And that's something we don't talk a lot about. But dude, the people that say they don't care, look at them. Either they're lying, let's start with that, or they're really good at something that makes them feel good about themselves. And it's that confidence which allows them to not care about people. But all of a sudden, if they had to rely on other people and people were, you know, judging them, pushing them away, unhappy with what they were doing, they would either just go off and, you know, go into a dark, brooding place, or they would begin to adjust their behavior. So it's like just having a conscious parent does not mean that you don't have any of those desires to connect and all of that, which are still going to drive a massive amount of behavior. Awesome.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

We only have a few more minutes left and we have a hard out at 11 because we have a call. So one last question. What would you say to someone, a parent, who watches this episode and says, this just isn't practical?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I would say there's always a reason to shut a new philosophy down, and there's only one reason to remain open to a new philosophy, and that's that it can really make you better. If you really like, you don't have to take in everything Dr. Shefali says and say, I'm going to make this all my own. But whenever I encounter a new idea, especially ones that trigger me, I stop and think, there's something here to your point earlier. And then, what can I learn from this? What is usable? What's great about this? And I think if you go in and I think a tremendous number of people shut her down because it's so counterintuitive and so out of left field. But if you open yourself up and not judge yourself right, like, don't worry about this, means that I have been a bad parent, which is how people come at it. It's not saying that. It's just saying there might be tools in this arsenal that you can now use to be even more effective, to be better, to help your children live a more happy and fulfilled life, to help yourself live a more happy and fulfilled life. And I think virtually anybody has some nuggets that you can take away that are just really, really powerful. And man, there is no exception here. So I find that as a life strategy, to say this is impractical and dismiss it without really asking, like, what's usable here? It's not effective. So you're closing yourself down. Be open, see what's usable, try some of it, really explore it, and then if it just like, like it isn't resonating, it doesn't work. Whatever. Hey, fair enough. But especially with Dr. Shefali, I think there are absolutely brilliant ideas in there that are unbelievably fresh and really, really important in terms of their USABILITY Awesome.

[Host (Impact Theory/After Impact)]

Well, that's all the time we have for today.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of After Impact. And if this brought any value to you, please do share it. That's how we grow the community that's incredibly, incredibly meaningful to us. It is a weekly show, so if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And don't forget that Dr. Shefali has an event going on right now called Evolve 2017. Check out her website link in the comments. Go check that out. This woman is phenomenal. She's amazing. And whether you agree with everything or not, she will change you if you let her. Alright guys, until next time, be legendary. Take care everybody. Thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to itunes, go to Stitcher Rate and review us. That helps us build this community and that is what we are all about right now. Building this community as big as we can to help as many people as we can, deliver as much value as possible. And you guys rating and reviewing really helps with that. Alright guys, thank you again so much and until next time. Time my friends, be legendary. Take care

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