BONUS: 7 Wildly Successful People Who Struggle with Mental Health (Replay)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "BONUS: 7 Wildly Successful People Who Struggle with Mental Health (Replay)"

Podcast: Tom Bilyeu’s Impact Theory
Episode Date: September 14, 2023
Host: Tom Bilyeu
Theme: Real, vulnerable stories showing how high-achieving people face, process, and overcome mental health struggles—reminding listeners they’re not alone and offering practical insights for healing and growth.

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Episode Overview

This special episode of Impact Theory features candid conversations from seven accomplished individuals who have faced significant mental health challenges. Host Tom Bilyeu aims to dismantle stigma by sharing their journeys through depression, anxiety, addiction, and self-doubt—demonstrating that vulnerability and struggle can coexist with success. The episode underscores the universality of mental health battles and explores practical approaches for recovery and rebuilding.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. You Are Not Alone – The Universality of Struggle

• Tom Bilyeu opens by highlighting the prevalence of mental health issues: “No matter what type of mental health issues you may be dealing with... you are not alone.” (01:00)
• Cites National Institute of Mental Health statistics: 1 in 5 adults in the U.S. experience mental illness yearly (01:17).

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2. Getting Unstuck – Momentum Over Perfection

Guest 1 – Mental Health Advocate (02:04–06:30)

• Describes personal experience with crippling depression and suicide planning.
• Key Practice: Start with small daily wins, even if it’s just showering or walking to the library.
• “The most important thing you can do is win the morning. Just win the morning, man.” (05:08)
• Emphasizes honoring the struggle rather than resenting it:
  “When we honor the struggle instead of hate the struggle, we can really achieve extraordinary things because our mindset’s in the right place.” (06:16)

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3. Radical Honesty and Destigmatization

Guest 3 – Veteran & Author (07:18–11:15)

• Shares concerns about audience reaction to his honest memoir.
• Finds that vulnerability opened doors for connection and dialogue:
  “The more we talk about it, the easier it is for people to be honest with themselves and get the help they need.” (11:07)
• Makes a crucial point about double-standards in how we treat mental illness vs. physical illness:
  “If you had heart problems and saw a cardiologist... everyone would be concerned... but the most complicated organ in your body—if you have a problem with this, suddenly... we don’t want to talk about that.” (09:21)
• Advocates that depression is real regardless of visible trauma or cause, and that healing is possible.

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4. Personal Transformation After Depression

Guest 2 – Personal Storyteller/Entrepreneur (11:41–15:42)

• Describes a decade of debilitating depression, rooted in personal and professional pressures, and feeling existentially trapped.
• A transformative experience climbing Mt. Kilimanjaro helped reframe his pain:
  “That four hours to the summit changed my life, where the mountain became my problem, and it became a representation of my life.” (13:07)
• After pivotal life changes (selling his company, divorce, leaving his religion), he focused on rewriting his identity and values.
• Embraces the philosophy of playing “infinite games”—ongoing growth and self-creation.

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5. The Parallel Pandemics: Body and Mind

Host Tom Bilyeu (16:42–20:15)

• Discusses how society confronts physical illness openly but still hides mental illness.
• Observes two pandemics: "(1) the body … visible, (2) the mind … invisible." (19:46)
• Shares a story about helping his sister break a cycle of depression and negative self-image through small sustainable wellness changes.

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6. Practical Anxiety Tools: Five-Second Rule & Recontextualizing Fear

Guest 5 – Anxiety Survivor (Mel Robbins) (21:55–29:31)

• Redefines anxiety as a “habit of worrying spiraled out of control.” (21:56)
• Shares how she broke free using the Five-Second Rule:
  • Notice negative thoughts or spiraling worry.
  • Count backward: "5-4-3-2-1."
  • Insert an “anchor thought” or positive context.
• “You catch yourself talking garbage to yourself... 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. You’ve just shifted the part of the brain that you’re using.” (23:35)
• Explains how the same physiological response signals both fear and excitement—the story your brain tells makes the difference.
• Suggests self-questioning (“Why am I ready?”) to turn anxiety into readiness (28:45).

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7. Addiction, Identity, and Self-Acceptance

Guest 7 – Recovering Addict (Darryl McDaniels) (29:41–31:33)

• Discusses how learning about being adopted led to relapse, denial, and eventual self-understanding via rehab.
• Realization: “When you feel good, everything comes to you.” (31:28)
• Emphasizes the importance of facing root causes, not just treating the behavior.

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8. Benefits of Therapy: Ownership and Emotional Honesty

Guest 4 – Therapist/Writer (Tucker Max) (31:45–35:52)

• Four years of psychoanalysis led to recognizing and accepting painful emotions, not erasing them.
• Lesson Illustrated: Noticing the impact of his words on his son, and taking responsibility with apology and repair (35:07).
• “Anyone who tells you that they have a way for you to control your emotions... is either lying to themselves or lying to you.” (32:46)
• “Ownership of yourself and your emotions and your desire to seek and to feel the painful truth... that’s what therapy taught me.” (35:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The journey to greatness begins the moment that our deep desires for comfort and ease are overpowered by our desires to connect and contribute.” – Guest 1, Mental Health Advocate (06:23)
• “You can get over it. You can get past it. That’s what we need to realize.” – Guest 3, Veteran & Author (09:55)
• “I was trapped in existence... The mountain was my depression, it was my marriage, it was my belief system. And I went home and I was changed.” – Guest 2, Personal Storyteller (13:15)
• “You catch yourself talking garbage to yourself... 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.” – Guest 5 (Mel Robbins, 23:35)
• “Anyone who tells you that they have a way for you to control your emotions... is either lying to themselves or lying to you.” – Guest 4, Therapist (32:46)
• “When you feel good, everything comes to you.” – Guest 7, Recovering Addict (31:28)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:00–02:04: Tom Bilyeu introduces the universal nature of mental health struggles, shares statistics and intention for the episode.
• 02:04–06:35: Practical strategies for those stuck in depression: seeking help, building momentum, and “winning the morning.”
• 07:18–11:15: Conversation with a veteran sharing how honesty about struggles builds community and healing.
• 11:41–15:42: Transformation story: leaving depression through a life-changing physical feat and starting anew.
• 21:55–29:31: Mel Robbins explains anxiety, the 5-Second Rule tool, and reframing physiological stress.
• 29:41–31:33: Addiction, relapse, and self-acceptance post-rehab.
• 31:45–35:52: Deep reflection on the role of therapy and taking ownership of emotions and actions.

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Closing Thoughts

Tom Bilyeu wraps up with a direct call to action: seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness. The honesty and range of stories emphasize that success does not immunize anyone against mental health challenges—and that vulnerability, community, and small steps are critical on the path to healing.

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For listeners seeking relatable stories, actionable tools, and reassurance that flourishing after mental health struggles is possible, this episode delivers a powerful array of perspectives and advice.

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Host]

today important and we want everyone watching to know first and foremost, no matter what type of mental health issues you may be dealing with or somebody that you know and love may be dealing with, you are not alone. Whether it is depression, anxiety, addiction, et cetera, it is nearly universal that somebody is themselves or knows somebody that is struggling with this. And it is very sad that it's not something that more people talk about openly. But we've put together a very special show for you guys today of just the incredible people that we've had on the show that have talked openly about some of their own struggles. So hopefully in watching this, you will see that not only can it be treated, but it's something that you can get to the other side of and be stronger for. So without further ado, check out the show. According to the National Institute of mental health, approximately 1 in 5 adults in the U.S. that's 43.8 million or 18.5% experience mental illness in a given year within this context. So obviously seek help is first and foremost. But beyond that, what? What does that rebuilding process look like for somebody who's trapped in depression and suicidal thoughts?

[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

Yeah, I've been there a lot in my life, especially before my car accident, my teenage years. Then the first woman I ever loved, we had a big breakup and that breakup sent me down in depression and suicide planning.

[Guest 2 - Personal Storyteller]

And

[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

it's tough to dispense advice to people other than get help. And I'll share why, because that time in my life I had so many people coming up to me. You know, my friends would come into my dorm room, let's go do something, and you just, there's Just the. The hope is lost. And what people, I think, made the mistake of trying to do is hype people up. Everything's gonna be okay. You're gonna be great. And what people need who are suicidal is serious psychological intervention. They need to seek support and help. And outside of that, when they do get that support, the first thing a great therapist is going to do, outside of the emotional reflection work of why are you here? And what has caused this sort of pattern for you? They're going to get you starting to get some momentum. The most important thing is when you are super down outside of finding that emotional reasoning for where you are is to start getting momentum. Because with momentum comes hope, with momentum comes motivation. With momentum comes, you know, that feeling that there's a reason for tomorrow. And so it's as simple as just saying, okay, what are three things I'm going to do today? And I don't mean that like, a lot of personal development guys would say, like, what are your three big goals for the day? I'm like, dude, sometimes that first goal is, I'm gonna shower today. I'm really in shower today. I'm gonna walk to the library and come home. And that's all they got. Like, literally, that's all they got. And you gotta honor that struggle when you're in that place. Like, know that where you're at, it is okay that you're there. And now you're gonna need help. And now you're gonna have to set up some daily practices. Just every day, win a little bit. Not like win your dreams. Not like crush through goals. Not like, be badass. Not like, no, just momentum, man. You know, most of the guys I've dealt with in that position who were suicidal outside of their therapeutic work, I said, the most important thing you can do is win the morning. Just win the morning, man. I think that's true for all of us, even high performers. Like, I don't have my morning routine game. I feel, you know, out of sorts. So I think it's true for everybody. You got to own your morning. You got to win it, because that starts and sets up everything else. I know you believe that as well. Like, people need that discipline, those routines that will help the rest of their day go better. And I don't want to ever be flippant with the advice to people who are dealing with that situation outside of get some help, get some momentum, and be okay if that momentum is really small, because it will build trust that that momentum builds, and trust that those gloomy and bad dark Days, trust that those are going to be there. They'll get less and less and less as you learn how to cope, but they're gonna be there. And so when they're there, it's one of the. My. I mean, outside of teaching people to bring the joy in my life, I teach people to honor the struggle, honor the difficulty. When we honor the struggle instead of hate the struggle, we can really achieve extraordinary things because our mindset's in the right place. It accepts, like, as soon as you honor the struggle, you accept that, oh, of course there should be struggle here. I should, I should honor this process. When you go to the gym to work out, you, like, honor that this is going to be hard and honor that process of getting better. And the more that you bring honor to it, the more your psyche builds with strength and you get a little bit of that esteem back because you see yourself engaging something versus avoiding it and running away. You see yourself connecting with something and giving it reverence. Like, like, I have reverence for the difficulties of life. They may be better. So I, I don't want a friction free life. I'm not interested in it. You know, the, the, the. I, I like to say sometimes that, you know, the journey to greatness begins the moment that our, you know, deep desires for comfort and ease are overpowered by our desires to connect and contribute.

[Host]

The World Health Organization reports that depression is the leading cause of disability worldwide. Globally, more than 300 million people of all ages suffer from depression. Let's talk about mental health then. It features pretty prominently in your book and certainly in what you've had to go through. And by the way, your honesty and vulnerability in the book are amazing. And I think that they can only imagine. And for anybody that hasn't read the book, they really don't understand what we're talking about. You were really honest. Like, you did not try to paint yourself as, like, hey, I'm a stud. Look at me. Like, it was such a warts and all. Biography. Absolutely love that part of it. Amazing. And I'm, I've got to imagine people reach out to you routinely to say that, thank you for that. And it's.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

Yeah, I didn't know how people were going to react to it. I mean, I had all these people that followed me for Dance with the Stars that loved me. And when the book hit the shelves, I was terrified. I was like, all these people are going to see a side of me that they have not seen and they're going to hate me. And it has been a positive Response, because I was very open and honest.

[Host]

That's incredible. So I can imagine the kind of audience that you would build off of Dancing with the Stars sort of very much like, sort of right down the middle. And some of the, like, behaviors that you had when you were angry were like, it's sort of the aggressive dickhead. You know what I mean? So for you to, like, put it out there and be like, let me walk you through what I was thinking so that you understand, like, I'm not justifying this. I'm just telling you it's real.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I was like, God, like, I'm so defenseless and. Which made me feel super connected to you and to walk through that. But then it got me thinking, like, what is that rebuilding process? So you've helped us see your journey. But I was like, what would he say? Like, if somebody came up to that was in this situation, what would he do? If it's a soldier, what would he do? If somebody's depressed but they're not a soldier, like, having gone through it and having been so real open and honest about what that process looks like, how do we. And give it to me in two ways. How do we systematically address the problem? And we'll just say of veterans going through it and then on sort of one offs, on a one to one. What does that look like?

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

Well, I think what needs to happen. I think that we've come a long way with mental health, but we have a long way to go. And what needs to happen is.

[Host]

Where would you say, how far have we come? When you say we've come?

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

Well, we. We acknowledge it. Okay, we acknowledge.

[Host]

And we didn't used to.

[Guest 4 - Therapist]

Which I would.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

No, I mean, because you. I look at veterans in the past, it was, you know, I think In World War II, it was called shell shock. It was all these different things, but it was not acknowledged in the way that it is now. But I think it needs to be talked about more. I think the more things are talked about, the more comfortable we are and the more we can understand them. When I woke up one morning and saw that in a tweet that Prince Harry came out talking about his depression, it made me really happy because I have been places and someone has said, well, you lost an arm and a leg, so you had a right to be depressed. And I stopped him. I was like, depression is real. You don't. You don't even have to go through something traumatic. Some are caused by, you know, something traumatic. Some can be a chemical imbalance. Imbalance in the brain. And I feel like if you had heart problems and saw a cardiologist, well, everyone would be concerned about. You would know you're doing better, and it would be open and honest with the crew. Anybody you work with. Not weird, but the most complicated organ in your body. If you have a problem with this, suddenly there's a. We don't want to talk about that.

[Guest 2 - Personal Storyteller]

No.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

And you can get over it. And that's what people need to realize. You can be cured. You can get past it. That's what we need to need to realize. You know, the reason I did is because when I was in my depression, I thought I was alone. I didn't open up to anybody. So I thought, someone's going to read this and it's going to help them. So I just. As nervous as I was about the book, I kept thinking that one person is going to read it. Well, now it's. Open up this dialogue. And I'll go and I'll speak and we'll do Q and A, and people want to talk about. I gave a speech in Florida, and it was. It was an older crowd, like I was gonna say it was. They were old. And I. I speak what's on my heart. And I gave my speech, and as I was closing, I kind of mentioned some depression because I was. I was coming out of the winter months, and I had hit me again this past winter, and I went and saw the doctor, and so it was on my mind, and it came up. And as I was saying, I thought this generation of people probably aren't connecting to what I'm saying. When I walked off the stage and they lined up, the amount of people that thanked me for talking about mental health. And here I was. I thought they didn't want to hear. I thought I was stepping out of line. No, it needs to be talked about, because it's not just this generation.

[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

It's.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

People are realizing more and more that it's an issue. And the more we talk about it, the easier it is for people to be honest with themselves and get the help they need.

[Host]

The National Institute of Mental Health's 2016 National Survey on Drug Use and Health states that an estimated 16.2 million adults in the United States had at least one major depressive episode in 2016. This number represented 6.7% of all US adults. You went through a decade of depression where you were oriented an entirely different way. How did you find your way out of that?

[Guest 2 - Personal Storyteller]

I was 24. I remember the day my brain broke. I remember the day I Started depression. And I would lay in my bed and just want to die. I didn't want to exist. I wanted an anesthesiologist to come and give me a shot. So, like, my soul would just. And at the time, I was in a belief system where there was an afterlife. And so that was impossible. You couldn't get. You couldn't be gone. You were around forever no matter what you did. And in fact, if you took your life, you would. You're not behaving in a way that this belief system, you know, rewards you. And so I was trapped in existence. And it was the worst feeling in the entire world. Cause I had no out. But not only that, I had kids. And so I had to, you know, like, I felt responsible for being a father. And so I was building Braintree. And, you know, I had challenges at home with my significant other, and I had kids who weren't sleeping. I wasn't sleeping myself. Working 24 7, having companies break, and like, all the pressure and it just drove me into the ground to a point. I just. I was just delirious. I mean, I was. I was broke. And so I climbed in Mount Kilimanjaro at the tail end of the situation, and. And I got sick. I got the stomach virus. And like three or four days in, I had the virus for a couple days, plus I was out. I was sick with altitude sickness. And I just felt terrible. Like the worst I've ever felt. And we got to base camp and we were 15,000 something. And I had to make a decision where I was going to climb to the top the next morning. And I thought, let's do it. Like, I'm not going to back down from this. And so I did it. And that four hours to the summit changed my life, where the mountain became my problem, and it became a representation of my life. And I started listening to Eminem, my favorite artist and. His defiance against problems. Anyways, I made it to the top and just broke down and cried. And it was like. It was the mountain was my depression, it was my marriage. It was my belief system. And I went home and I was changed. I sold my company. Shortly after Braintree, I got a divorce. I left my religion, and I was back at my 21 year old age. And I said, who am I? Like what? How do I rewrite myself from scratch? What do I care about? What matters? What exists, what's true, what's not true?

[Host]

All right, how did you rebuild yourself? Like, what is that process of answering those questions?

[Guest 2 - Personal Storyteller]

Everything I'm doing Now is the answer. So the Mormonism, you know it, it still is the best story I've ever heard anyone tell. It's like if you obey these rules, you get an unbelievably awesome afterlife. It's just like that anything. It's the best you could ever imagine a more in fact, we can't even imagine it's so awesome is what we're told. And all you have to do is obey the rules. It's like super clean. I get that. And when that was taken away from me, it's like, well, okay, so if there's not an afterlife or is there an afterlife? I don't know, what do I do? And that's why Infinite Games is the only thing that makes sense to me is I grew up with this idea that I could continue to play games forever. I want to play games forever.

[Host]

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[Guest 5 - Anxiety Survivor]

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[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

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[Guest 5 - Anxiety Survivor]

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[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

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[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

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[Host]

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[Commercial Narrator]

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[Host]

A recent World Health Organization led study estimates that depression and anxiety disorders cost the global economy $1 trillion each year in lost productivity. So I have a belief that human potential is nearly limitless. Now why do I throw in nearly limitless? I do it partly to. Because I'm holding competing ideas in my head. On the one hand, I believe human potential is completely limitless. And then on the other hand, I know if I step off the roof I'm going to fall and break something, right? So it's like. And how you reconcile those two things, it's it like for me.

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

For me that causes tremendous anxiety.

[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

Really?

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

Well, because I figure as long as we're young and healthy and we take care of our physical hardware. We get enough sleep, we exercise, we eat well, we can more or less take our, our physiology, our physiology for granted. And you know, I've thankfully I'm very healthy, but I've experienced health scares in my life. Mostly self created, you know, something happened and then I assumed it was the worst.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

Right.

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

But I can tell you that in the midst of a panic attack of a true ontological terror, it doesn't matter if you think you're dying or if you think you're going crazy, it's the same thing, right? You're losing your grip.

[Guest 7 - Recovering Addict]

Right?

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

You're losing your grip even on your own stabilized identity. And I'm working on some videos on the subject because I think, I think mental health, you know, depression and anxiety in this country are chronic in the world. It's one of the most diagnosed illnesses now in the world. Like more than physical illnesses. Like really like we have science, we have vaccines, people living longer, healthier, but they're fudgeing depressed and anxious, you know, and, and we have not good systems, I think to fill our holes.

[Host]

Yeah, it's so interesting. So one of the driving forces behind founding the company was so, because people were like, wait, why are you changing, you know, your mission from Quest, like this whole new thing. And to me it's not, it's not a different mission. So at Quest we were trying to do is wellness, right? So now you can get hyper focused and say, what's the tactic we're using? And the tactic there was to end metabolic disease. But at the end of the, at the end of the day for me, and I'm speaking for myself, not for my partners, we were, you know, sort of focus on very different things. But for me it was, there were people in my life that I loved and they were very unhappy. Profoundly unhappy.

[Guest 5 - Anxiety Survivor]

Yeah.

[Host]

And playing the no bullshit what would it take game, I knew the answer was, you know, my sister was clinically depressed. To help her, she had to get in better shape because she, you know, was in this vicious cycle of food. She had a negative cell body image.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

Yeah.

[Host]

The only thing that gave her comfort was food. And that gave her a more negative body image and made her feel like she had no willpower and all that. And so she just super destructive. So by giving her food that she could choose based on taste and have it to be good for her, it got her going in the opposite direction. She started to feel better, look better. She was making one simple choice, eat this bar instead of a, you know, bag of M&M's or whatever. And so it got her going, helped build confidence, all that. It was really, really incredible. But it was. It was about wellness. It was about wanting to see my sister happy.

[Guest 2 - Personal Storyteller]

Right.

[Host]

So the. The other side of the coin was always mental happiness. And I believe that we're living through two pandemics right now. Pandemic. One is the pandemic of the body. It's very easy to see. People are morbidly obese, super visible. When somebody dies of diabetes, it's crazy. They're literally burning alive from the inside out. It starts at the extremities. They start, you know, cutting off toes and foot, leg, and, you know, and. And then you're gone. And so it's so visible. Whereas mental illness, on the other hand, the pandemic of the mind is invisible.

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

Agreed. I mean, there's a Sam Harris, who is also brilliant and I've consulted with on this topic, says, why are we so concerned with the story? Look, the brain is wired to tell stories. So when you're physically uncomfortable, it will tell a story. It will.

[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

That.

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

That discomfort will inform the story and give it a negative tinge. You know, sometimes I feel anxious, and when I realize I just have to pee. And I was, like, creating this whole story. And one of the things he said is that you think of anxiety just as a peculiar sensation, like when you have an itch. When you have an itch, you. You know, you scratch it if you can, and if you just, like, let the sensation pass.

[Host]

And he says, try to do the same thing when you feel anxious.

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

You know, mindfulness meditators talk about that.

[Commercial Narrator]

Okay, just let it come in.

[Host]

Don't resist it.

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

You can just feel it, breathe through it. And if you don't allow it to, like, hijack you, it will just pass. Like, just another sensation.

[Host]

Dude, that's really interesting. So I'll give you one of my anxiety triggers, being cold. So anybody that knows me knows I'm, like, freaky about being cold. I do not like to be cold. The reason I don't like to be cold is the physiological response to cold is exactly the same that I get anyway. When I'm anxious, I feel, like, slightly shivery. Like, so if I'm super warm but anxious, I'll feel that same sense of being shivery.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

Yeah.

[Host]

So getting cold makes me feel like I'm really anxious about something. So I'm like, the fuck? But that analogy is very helpful. I will begin employing it immediately.

[Guest 3 - Veteran and Author]

Yeah.

[Host]

According to the anxiety and Depression association of America Anxiety disorders are the most common mental illness in the US affecting 40 million adults, or 18.1% of the population every year.

[Guest 5 - Anxiety Survivor]

So first of all, I literally have struggled with anxiety my entire life and anxiety for this conversation. The way I define it is, it is the habit of worrying spiraled out of control. You know, you may say that you are a worrier, that's not true. You have a habit of worrying. A habit is a pattern of behavior or thinking that you repeat without realizing it. So anxiety happens when that pattern of worrying about things spirals out of control and now it starts to marry and manifest itself with physical sensations too. That's all that it is. I know that I say that's all that it is. Me personally, I struggled with anxiety, I think my entire life. It became quite acute when I was in my late teens and early twenties. I became medicated in the middle of law school. I took Zoloft for two decades. When our first daughter was born, who is now 17, the postpartum depression and the cascading panic was so terrible that not only was I medicated and couldn't breastfeed, but I couldn't be left alone with her. So when I say you can cure yourself of anxiety, I don't say that lightly. Four years ago, after I had been using the five second rule to change my behavior, how I spoke to my husband, how I negotiate in business meetings, how I conduct sales, the kind of parent that I am, my health habits, my eating habits, curbing the drinking, I thought, I wonder if I can use this 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 thing to get control of my thought patterns, not my behavior patterns, my thought patterns. Yes you can. So we're gonna, we're gonna build this conversation. Cause I wanna start with something we can all relate to and that is how do you stop worrying and how do you stop listening to self doubt? This is how you're gonna do it. So all day long you're going to have moments where your thoughts drift. And I use that word on purpose because for me there is a physical sensation when you start to use the five second rule and you start to wake up not only on time in the morning, but you wake up to your life and the opportunities in your life. There's your thoughts drift like you'll just be hanging out with your friends and then suddenly you're like, I'm not sure that that person likes me anymore. Heard from my kids lately, I wonder if they're dead or you know, oh, you know, is what check. Like you just Start worrying about stuff. Why? Because it's a habit. Because when you're not paying attention, your brain shifts from you being a decision maker and paying attention to you just kind of spinning things on autopilot. And one of your habits is worrying the second you wake up and you notice, holy cow, I'm talking some negative garbage to myself right now. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. You've just shifted the part of the brain that you're using. You've shifted from the basal ganglia, which is where your habit loops are spinning, and you've awakened your prefrontal cortex. You've also interrupted that pattern. Now, what you're going to do, because your mind is actually ready to receive a different thought because of the counting. Now you can put in an anchor thought. Like if you have a mantra, if you've got a vision about the way that your business is going to turn out in five years, if you just have a thought that makes you really happy and proud, insert that now. Why does this work? It works because of the counting. And I'm not kidding. We know based on research that positive thinking alone not effective. In some instances, trying to force yourself to think positive can actually make the worries worse. Why? Well, the reason why is because it's really hard to just change the channel. What we have to do first is basically interrupt it and turn off the TV and then turn it back on with the prefrontal cortex awakened. So the counting is essential, and so you can start using this. Today, you catch yourself talking garbage to yourself. Because we all know if I were to put a speaker on your head and broadcast, be sitting here in the audience, you'd be in an insane asylum. Because the crap that you say to yourself is insane. And the problem is we listen to it. You'll be. You'll be in a sales meeting and you'll be undermining yourself. They're not going to buy, oh, my gosh, I'm in trouble. You're not even present. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Switch it back. Get back to that vision that you have about toasting your success or this customer being really happy or you being proud of yourself, whatever that vision may be. You can control your thoughts. And this is not just us talking about it. This is a tool that you can use. So let's take it a step further. So worrying. If you let it go unchecked, what will happen is you will get used to worrying. You will get used to living in a state where you're slightly agitated all the time. Let me talk a little bit about agitation. So what we know based on research is that physically in your body, so physiologically being excited is the exact same thing as being afraid. Let me say that again because it is so important in your body, being excited is the exact same thing as being afraid. Your body doesn't know the damn difference. Your heart races, your armpits sweat. You're like, you know, you may get tight in your throat, your cheeks may get pink, like my do when I get excited. The only difference between excitement and fear is what your brain says. And the problem is if you have a habit of worrying, guess what you're gonna tell yourself is going on? That you're, like, freaking out, that you're not excited, that something must be wrong. Oh, gosh. Why would you say something's wrong? Cause you got a habit of saying that all the time. Even as I became a speaker for a living, or I'd be on CNN when I first started doing it, I would be freaking out backstage. But even. Even though, like, you know, just a couple, just last week, he's standing backstage about to go on 8,000 people. Heart races, armpit sweat. You know, my hands get clammy. I'm not nervous, though. Not at all. I'm excited. And so I developed this technique and research out of Harvard, not based on my technique, but something very similar proves that if you basically, right before you're about to do something, take a test run, a race, public speaking, a business negotiation, ask somebody to marry you, Whatever it may be that gets your heart racing, just do this. Go. I'm excited. I'm excited to give that speech. I'm excited to ask him or her. I'm excited to do this race. I'm excited because what happens is you give your brain context so your brain doesn't escalate the stuff going on in your body. Your brain's not worried. Make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can combine this with the 5 second rule so we know how to do worrying. You catch your thoughts drift. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Anchor thought. If you start to feel your heart racing. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. To awaken the prefrontal cortex and then start going, I'm really excited to do this. I'm really excited to do this. Another technique that you can use is ask. I think they call it interrogatory questions, where instead of giving yourself a pep talk, say, well, why am I ready to do this? Why am I ready? Because that'll force you to answer the question, which then convinces you, so why am I ready to close this sale why am I ready to give this speech? Why am I ready? So those are two strategies that you can use, backed by science, that are proven to actually make your performance be much better.

[Host]

The US Surgeon General reports that only about 10% of people with a substance abuse disorder receive any type of specialty treatment.

[Guest 7 - Recovering Addict]

When I found out that I was adopted, what was happening was I started drinking again. And in my mind I try to rationalize and say, I'm drinking again because I have celebrating the new found part of my identity, which was, you know, I'm trying to come up with some excuse to drink again. And that was going on for probably like, my wife knew I was drinking, Eric knew I was drinking. Everybody around me knew I was drinking. But it wasn't till about, I would say, eight months when it started drinking started getting out of hand. And, you know, my wife finally, she finally confronted me. I love women because they're so perceptive. She looked at me and she said this to me. She said, motherfucker, you fucking drinking because you can't handle the fucking fact that you just found out that you was adopted. And I tried to deny that, but she was a hundred percent right. The rehab thing allowed me to see what I was doing, and then it allowed me to see why I was doing it. And then it made me discover, whoa, I'm obsessive compulsive disorders, and this and that and anxiety. And it made me realize that when I first started drinking, it's because I thought it. I needed help to be who I was trying to be with rundmc. And the reason why I say that is because when I went through rehab, now that I'm sober, the things that made me feel good, I was able to see and feel again like people think they need stuff. I realized all you need to do is feel good about who you are, but I'm talking about really just feeling good. When you feel good, everything comes to you.

[Host]

The National Institute of Mental Health describes psychotherapy as a term for a variety of treatment techniques that aim to help a person identify and change troubling emotions, thoughts and behaviors.

[Guest 4 - Therapist]

There's a lot of ways to get help. I picked therapy, talk therapy, and there's a lot of different types of talk therapy. I ended up going with psychoanalysis, which is just a very specific type of it. And I spent four years in analysis, going four days a week.

[Host]

What was motivating that? Was it a positive feeling of I have the sense that I can get better, or was it like, this hurts so much, I just need something? It it was, it was.

[Guest 4 - Therapist]

That's a great question. So for me, what my, my, my analysis was very much about,

[Guest 6 - Mental Health Expert]

I mean,

[Guest 4 - Therapist]

like, I, I was just in denial for a long time about, like, it's not that I denied that my parents were like, I intellectually understood. I, I, I saw them clearly for who they were. I didn't connect to the emotion of it, right? Like, I refused to accept that I was scared or lonely or sad. I mean, even intellectually I would, but emotionally I wouldn't connect with, with that. Right. The difference between me now and me, let's say 10 years ago in this realm, is that now the emotions don't go away, right? So anyone who tells you that they have a way for you to control your emotions or get rid of your emotions is either lying to themselves or lying to you and trying to sell you something. So it's not that any of this shit goes away. It's that now I recognize it. Like, like I recognize the feeling. I accept that it's there. And I can like not let it overwhelm me or let it control me without understanding. For most people, the only way you can get past this stuff is to bring it out, let it, let it have its voice. That I'm a father, right? I have a three year old son, Bishop, and this happened like four months ago. I'll never forget it. So something, I, Bishop knocked over a glass or something, whatever, he spilled something, he's three. And, and I kind of like, you know, I was having a bad day and I was in a bad mood and I kind of sat there, I'm like, bishop, what are you, why did you do that? What are you doing? Be careful. Like really almost exactly like that tenor, right? And like it, I didn't, it didn't even occur to me that I was snapping or being mean or whatever. I was just like talking, you know, you react, whatever. Yeah, but I looked at his face and that kid's face, man, it looked like I had stabbed him in the chest with a knife. Like, it, he was crestfallen, like broken. I remember looking right at him and in a flash, understanding I had done to him what my dad did to me. And at that moment, I had a choice to make about the type of man and the type of father I was gonna be. Like, either I could rational, oh, well, you know, like he deserved it, or I need, he needs to toughen up. Or I could rationalize this, or I could accept that I had hurt this kid, my son, and I had done it unintentionally intentionally, it doesn't matter. I had done it and that I had to accept it and then deal with it, right? Deal with the fact that I had done this. And of course, thank God I went through therapy, right? Because I was able to see it in the moment and understand in the moment what I had done and accept it and then deal with it. And dealing with it is actually pretty easy if you'll accept that.

[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

Right?

[Guest 4 - Therapist]

Uh, but it was really painful. I mean, you. Like, it's still painful to think about the fact that I did. Like, I did it. There's no way to undo this. But, you know, I picked him up, I said, oh, buddy, come here.

[Guest 1 - Mental Health Advocate]

Are.

[Guest 4 - Therapist]

Are you. Are you sad? And he's like, yeah. I'm like, okay, why are you sad? And he's like, I. You know, I don't know. He's. I'm like, are you sad cause daddy yelled at you? He's like, yeah. I'm like, okay, well, you know, daddies make mistakes too. Daddy shouldn't yell, should he? No, but Daddy makes mistakes. And what do we do when we make mistakes? We say we're sorry and we cleaned it up. And like, okay, well, Daddy's saying sorry to you, okay? Because Daddy shouldn't yell. Daddy made a mistake, and Daddy's sorry. So let's give me a hug and now clean it up, right? And like, I don't know. Like, that was to me, like, if there's a happy ending, that's a happy ending, right? That's what therapy taught me.

[Host]

And if you had to boil down so that particular thing to me, from the outside, it sounds like ownership is. Is the key there.

[Guest 4 - Therapist]

Ownership of yourself and your emotions and your. A desire to seek and to feel the painful truth. Not just intellectually. Recognize the truth in therapy is about connecting with the emotions you are running from and feeling them, no matter how painful or awful they are. Because almost certainly they're awful and painful to you. Otherwise you wouldn't learn from them. Like, you don't learn from happiness, right? It's not like, oh, remember that great memory? No, no, put that away. Hide that. No, no, no. That's not the problem. It's the painful stuff.

[Host]

All right, guys, I hope that added a ton of value to you. This was something that was really important for us to put together, because one big fear of mine is that people are out there suffering in silence from depression, having suicidal thoughts. And if you're having suicidal thoughts and you're not getting treatment, you are literally playing with your life. So for me, to you. Please reach out. Get the help that you need. Get the help that you deserve. There's absolutely no weakness in reaching out for help. In fact, I will say that it's one of the strongest and bravest things you could do. All right, guys, until next time, be legendary. Take care.