Candace Owens Vindicated? Inside the Turning Point USA Scandal & Media Manipulation | Tom Bilyeu Show

Summary

Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu:

Episode: "Candace Owens Vindicated? Inside the Turning Point USA Scandal & Media Manipulation"
Date: October 9, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Impact Theory, hosted by Tom Bilyeu, dives deep into the ongoing scandal at Turning Point USA involving Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk. Tom and his co-host dissect media manipulation, the credibility of conspiracy claims, economic challenges, the immigration debate, and the state of global geopolitics—particularly U.S.-China relations. The conversation is marked by a determination to uncover what’s actually happening beneath sensational headlines, balanced with skepticism about all sides.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Candace Owens, Charlie Kirk, & Turning Point USA Scandal

(Starts ~01:00)

• Candace Owens' Claims:
  Candace alleged that Charlie Kirk intended to split with Israel over donor pressure, initially dismissed as another "outrageous" claim until receipts emerged.

• Confirmation and Vindication:

  • Turning Point USA's president, Andrew Calvin, authenticated text messages released by Candace—lending her significant credibility.

    “That was a text grab... So it is authentic.” – Andrew Calvin (07:20)

  • Tom notes how, previously, alt-media and "conspiracy" figures like Owens or Alex Jones would be ridiculed, but now they occasionally break genuine scoops.

• Dangers and Risks of Whistleblowing:
  Owens claims to have received further off-the-record information that Kirk feared for his life days before he died. She describes assembling a “life insurance policy” of documents to be released if anything happens to her.

• Media Manipulation & Manufactured Consent:
  Tom connects this incident to broader media control and consensus formation, referencing James Burnham’s warnings about information warfare:

  "When you have manufactured consent...editors of newspapers...politicians...collude and they tell us, this is the world." – Tom Bilyeu (02:15)

• Limits of Truth:
  Tom challenges the concept of absolute truth given human cognitive biases:

  "Truth is not easy to discern...truth is probably the wrong thing to pursue because we are not built from a—humans don't have the sensors to accurately predict what is true." – Tom Bilyeu (02:53)

Memorable Quotes

• On Candace’s strategy:

  "She is the commentary version of Michael Saylor. And it's like if her bets all pay off, she is going to have all the credibility in the known universe. However, this is a very high risk strategy." – Tom Bilyeu (09:55)

• On the perils of legal threats:

  "The process is the punishment." – Tom Bilyeu (15:59)

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2. Media, Consensus, and the Age of Information Overload

(02:15, 18:14)

• Fragmented Consensus:
  Traditional media once controlled narratives; now, the rise of alt-media fragments consensus, making it harder for society to find common ground.

  "Humans need a shared narrative in order to march forward together..." – Tom Bilyeu (18:14)

• Freedom of Speech Dilemma:
  Tom defends freedom of speech but recognizes its role in fragmenting narratives:

  "We have, quote, unquote, allowed people to bring all these fracturing, negative narratives. But you have to, because...if it brings me this, where we're dealing with all this, so be it."
  – Tom Bilyeu (19:44)

• On Diversity vs. Unity:
  Quoting Thomas Sowell:

  “Diversity is not our strength. Diversity is the thing we have to overcome in order to move forward together. Unified unity is our strength.” – as paraphrased by Tom Bilyeu (21:33)

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3. Debate on Immigration, ICE, & Policing

(21:48–41:27)

• Stephen Miller’s Rhetoric:
  Clip of Stephen Miller defending ICE actions in Portland and Chicago, labeling protestors as "domestic terrorists," insisting on the need for federal intervention (22:13, 24:59).

  • Tom pushes back, questioning the logic and ethics of labeling protestors as insurrectionists.

• Racial Profiling and Enforcement:

  • Discussion on whether ICE’s policies disproportionately target “brown people.”
  • Tom and the co-host banter about profiling and historical equivalents (stop-and-frisk, post-9/11 detentions).

• Economic Impacts of Immigration Policy:

  • Tom critiques the importation of cheap labor and offshoring, linking them to stagnant wages, the difficulty for American workers, and skewed market incentives.

  "If you want to know why workers lost the ability to negotiate wages, it is very simple. You outsource jobs and you imported people that will do the jobs...for cheap." – Tom Bilyeu (33:00)

• Middle Ground & Populism:

  • Tom insists that both sides need to meet in the middle, especially in a “populist moment”, cautioning against escalating polarization.

  "You've got to find your way to the middle. You have to find a way to work with these people that you perceive as lunatics...Divorce is a lot worse than reconciliation." – Tom Bilyeu (41:29)

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4. U.S. Economy & Job Market Woes

(43:30–51:16)

• Alarming Job Data:

  • The U.S. is experiencing significant job losses, the worst in years. Private sector jobs are in decline; government jobs balloon without productivity, fueling inflation.
  • Economic analyst (44:01) references nearly a million job cuts YTD, a 55% rise over last year.

• Tech & AI Disruption:

  • The panel links job cuts to both economic downturns and the rise of transformative technologies like AI.

• Glaring Distortion in Asset Ownership:

  "10% of Americans own 93% of the assets in America. You just don't have enough people spending money." – Tom Bilyeu (46:04)

• Prescriptions:

  • Need for deregulation, labor empowerment, and encouraging Americans to acquire assets.
  • Tom is wary of passive encouragement into an overheated stock market, instead advocating for broader asset ownership.

  “If we don’t get people into assets, we're in trouble. If we don’t get power back into the hand of the average worker… we’re going to be in trouble.” – Tom Bilyeu (50:33)

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5. U.S.–China Power Struggle & Xi Jinping’s Future

(51:16–64:22)

• Potential Chinese Political Instability:

  • New rumors that Xi Jinping may be losing power due to economic malaise and trade wars against the U.S. Speculation about Xi being afraid to leave China for fear of a coup or not being let back in.

  “The fact that he's saying that Xi Jinping might not be able to leave China because he might not be able to get back in...would, needless to say, be extremely disruptive to China.” – Tom Bilyeu (60:22)

• China’s Strategic Moves:

  • Discussion of China's retaliatory maneuvers through soybean market tactics, global investment, and undercutting the U.S. internationally.

• Xi’s Philosophy and Mandate:

  • Tom recounts research indicating Xi’s guiding belief: China’s divine mandate as the “Middle Kingdom.”

  “China is meant to be the quote unquote, Middle Kingdom, the most important kingdom in the world. Like, that is what God intends for China.” – Tom Bilyeu (64:54)

• Risks Ahead:

  • The U.S. wants to see a stable, less antagonistic China, recognizing that upheaval could profoundly reshape global geopolitics—for better or worse.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Breaking Stories First:

  “People really do go, okay, when I’ve got that thing that’s too hot to handle, nobody’s going to believe it, I’m going to go to one of those two people.”
  – Tom Bilyeu on Candace Owens and Alex Jones (09:37)

• On Litigation Tactics:

  “The process is the punishment.” – Tom Bilyeu (15:59)

• On Economic Reality:

  “You outsource jobs and you imported people that will do the jobs that we have here for cheap.” – Tom Bilyeu (33:00)

• On Social Fragmentation:

  “Shared narratives are born out of pain. And I think a country has to go through... a century of humiliation, their words. And with that, they were able to galvanize people with a shared narrative.” – Tom Bilyeu (20:59)

• On China’s Global Positioning:

  "Xi Jinping is taking us back to Mao and, like, the authoritarian top down rule. I'm dictator for life. Like, that whole thing. And it's terrifying." – Tom Bilyeu (51:56)

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Essential Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------|:----------:| | Candace Owens & Turning Point USA Scandal | 01:00–11:51| | Text Confirmation & Media Manipulation | 07:07–10:17| | Owens’ “Dead Man’s Switch” and Legal Threats | 12:31–17:39| | Need for Shared Narrative & Diversity Debate | 18:14–21:48| | Stephen Miller ICE Debate & Immigration | 21:48–41:27| | Job Market Plunge & Economic Signals | 43:30–51:16| | U.S.–China Tensions & Xi’s Power | 51:16–64:22|

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Final Takeaways

• Information Warfare is Reshaping Reality:
  The draining of conventional consensus and rise of “receipts” culture has shifted who is believed, with scapegoats (like Candace Owens) occasionally vindicated.

• The Economy is Under Real Strain:
  Underlying problems, masked by volatile headlines, point to structural challenges in jobs, wages, and opportunity—fueled by automation, immigration policy, and elite monopolies on assets.

• U.S.–China Power Games Have No Scripted Ending:
  Turf wars, trade skirmishes, leadership instability: these are not mere “theater,” but desperate efforts to survive and maintain influence.

• A Call to Middle Ground and Constructive “Narratives”:
  Return to constructive, unifying values is essential—no matter how uncomfortable the compromise.

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Tom’s Signature Note:
“Find your way to the middle. You have to find a way to work with these people that you perceive as lunatics, because they need to find a way to work with you... Divorce is a lot worse than reconciliation. We’ve got to find a way to reconcile.” (41:29)

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For listeners: If you haven’t tuned in, this episode pulls no punches confronting contemporary politics, economics, and global trends—with Tom Bilyeu’s trademark clarity, skepticism, and demand for coherence over partisanship.

Transcript

[Tom Bilyeu]

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[Tom Bilyeu]

Candace Owens is vindicated over her claims that Charlie Kirk planned a split with Israel that's actually now been backed up by Turning Point themselves. Stephen Miller goes ham over attacks against ICE and the need for troops in both Chicago and Portland, whether they're targeting brown people. New economic data shows we are hemorrhaging jobs right now. New report comes out suggesting that Xi Jinping may be losing power in China. So we'll talk about that.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Going to be honest. So as we were doing some research and things, we were kind of diving into everything that has to do with Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk. And it really comes down to here, Candace Owens again making outlist claims outlandish at like, this is just another outrageous thing. She's going to get sued in three weeks and we're going to sweep it under the rug. I completely written it off. And then she goes live. I want to say yesterday. And that's when the receipts start rolling in. We get confirmations from Turning Point usa and it seems, I don't want to say instantly, but it seems that the conversation is now slowly starting to shift a bit and people are now on Candace, on Candace's claim specifically to Charlie Kirk. Like now it's a bit more, maybe it is more credible than we thought. Or wait a second, how many donors did he lose? How much money was on the table that he denied? And now these other kind of conspiracy theories are coming to light. What was your first reaction hearing about it and then as you were going through the research?

[Tom Bilyeu]

We are living in the world that James Burnham warned us about that when you have the volume and velocity of information, that there is going to be warfare at the level of what can anybody believe? And so I. The key thing that I take away, because I think it's going to have the biggest impact on us as a planet, is that when you have manufactured consent, meaning people really can control the narrative. There's only so many ways to convey something to the general public. And so editors of newspapers, they get together, politicians get together, they essentially collude and they tell us, this is the world.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

This is what happened. This is the story.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right. They can tell it. So you certainly were not making contact with the truth, but everybody had a limited set of places that they could go to find this information. And it allowed us to move forward reasonably well, certainly here in the West. And that felt amazing. So you have freedom of speech. People can challenge the orthodox narrative if they want, but they always end up looking like kooks. And you're basically able to keep a narrative moving forward in something like the assassination of jfk, sort of bubbles in the background all the time of people saying that it's a conspiracy theory. But it's very hard for people to get all of the information out in any sort of credible way. They. They lacked the alternative media sphere that we have now. And so because of that, the average person just marches forward with their day. Feels like they understand everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like these crazy guys off to the side and they say some stuff every now and then. But the reality is I understand what the world is. I understand how it works. When I act in accordance with the narratives, I'm able to get along with my life. That's all going away. That. That's all gone away. And given that that's gone away, I don't think we yet understand the ramifications of a world that simply cannot come to a consensus. Now, this is where I have to plant the flag and say truth is not easy to discern. And that truth is probably the wrong thing to pursue because we are not built from a. Humans don't have the sensors to accurately predict what is true. And so we're always looking at approximations. We're always looking at shortcuts, cognitive shortcuts, cognitive illusions. So people are familiar with optical illusions, but I think that there are cognitive illusions, and I think for the most part, when you look at life, because our physical body makes it impossible to perceive truth.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

My favorite stat to remind people of. You only see 0.0035% of the available electromagnetic spectrum, which means you see the world's most tiny fraction of what's actually there. Okay, so you're already abstracted. Once you get into human behaviors and all of that, it's gonna be 98% interpretation and 2% facts. So it's like this thing happened, but what does it mean that that thing happened? So I'll give you an example to bring it back to Charlie Kirk. So in. In fact, show the tweets that Charlie Kirk.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

So we're starting at the very beginning, and we'll break it down. So right here is where Candace Owens reveals personal text from Charlie that shows his intention to split with Israel simply based on donors. Simply based on how this shift in the. The perception, I guess, of Israel is changing.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, show. Show the clip. And then. Then I'll walk people through like the beats early.

[Investigative Reporter or Insider]

And I never said he was going to. Decided one day to become Catholic. It would have financial implications. So Charlie writes in this group chat, just lost another huge Jewish donor.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Just lost another huge Jewish donor. Two million a year because we won't cancer cancel Tucker. I'm thinking of inviting Candace. Then the person replies to him, ugh. And then Charlie writes, jewish donors play into all the stereotypes. I cannot and will not be bullied like this. He then continues, leaving me no choice but to leave the pro Israel cause. And then the other person responds, please don't invite Candace. That might feel good short term, but it's not good long term, in my opinion. Okay, so obviously a very brief excerpt. She had gone to her audience and had said, hey, I have these texts. She originally did not show them. And actually she may have shown them straight away, but nobody believed that they were real. And you had people all over the Internet going, if she can prove that those are real texts, I'll give her every dollar I've made from every dollar the Jews have ever paid me. I mean, it was like really wild stuff like that. And then lo and behold, let's play the next clip. The partner of Charlie Kirk comes on and says, yeah, that actually is real.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

So this is Andrew Calvin, the current president of Turning Point usa. And I think he's been taking over the show like he's been doing the last couple of episodes. I don't know if that's a permanent move, but this is him authenticating the text from Candace Owens to address some

[Tom Bilyeu]

of the things that have been going around on public, namely about a text, a group text chain that has been made known and released by Candace Owens. And I just want to address it head on, because that was a text grab A screen grab that I had shared with people. So it is authentic. And I want to go into it because I actually am really excited that

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

the truth is out there.

[Tom Bilyeu]

When he says that he's excited that these have gotten out there, he said, look, we have been accused of not trying to find out what actually happened to Charlie, and we want that more than anybody else. But people thought from our public behavior that that wasn't true. But in reality, we've been cooperating with the investigation and we didn't want to spoil anything. And so we're trying to just make sure that all of the, everything that can go forward with the formal investigation can. And we're not interfering with that. But now that it's out, and I'm not the one that put it out, great, let's talk about it. Yeah, we can say, listen, this was on our radar. We made it known to the investigation immediately, as soon as it happened. And so now let's see what happens. So that, obviously, to your point earlier, brought a lot of credibility to Candace because people were dragging her on Twitter saying that she's just completely lost the plot from what she's doing with the Brigitte Macron stuff to this. She just like, never found a conspiracy that she wouldn't endorse. And so for her to be the one that clearly in the world, people are like, oh, you've got something hot. You want to get it out. People are going to Candace. Now, I won't lie. She's starting to feel like Alex Jones feels to me. They do get like a lot of early stuff from people. People really do go, okay, when I've got that thing that's like too hot to handle, nobody's going to believe it. I'm going to go to one of those two people. But there is something, it does something to your reputation when you're always early on breaking conspiracy theories. So it'll be interesting to see how this, how this plays out. If she gets vindicated on the, the McCrone stuff, it's game over. She'll be goaded. And it is interesting. Listen, I would never do this because I think people know my foundational belief is don't over trust yourself. Like, the things you could be blind to are just far too many. Candace herself could be being manipulated by somebody deep, deep, deep behind the scenes. It's like, yeah, get it to Candace. So I would just be uber paranoid about that kind of thing. But anyway, it's fascinating as somebody commenting on all this stuff to watch, like, how far out there she's putting herself. So I've said this before and I'll say it again. She is the commentary version of Michael Saylor. And it's like if her bets all pay off, she is going to have all the credibility in the known universe. And however, this is a very high risk strategy. Okay, so that happens.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

She's all in. She's all.

[Tom Bilyeu]

She's all in. She is testicals deep like that. That is for sure. She maybe some of those are even being placed inside. Like, this is wild, wild stuff. So this lent a lot of credibility for him to come out and say, okay, that's real. I don't know how she got it. I think he said those words, but don't hold me to that. But anyway acknowledges that those were screen grabs that he took that he put together. This is real. So Charlie really did say that. And it. I would say that is pretty bombshelly for somebody like me that's always been on the outside of the Jews. And I've just always found this fascination weird. I will be very curious to see how this plays out because it, it is true that humans in general, that governments specifically, they will for sure manipulate anybody in any way that they can. I don't think that's in any way, shape or form unique to Israel, but Israel is in such a precarious PR position if it ends up coming out that this is what they did. Oh my God. Like, this would be. This would be freakish even.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Even just to save face, you have to. You have to like react big to it. But the plot thickens even still. So as we're connecting those threads, Candace Owens has text that she was. There was some dissent in Charlie Kirk's Turning Point USA camp. The President came and confirmed that. Here is a video of her expressly saying that Charlie was fearing for his life days, weeks before he was actually murdered.

[Tom Bilyeu]

We're hitting pause for a moment, but there's plenty more ahead, so don't go anywhere.

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[Tom Bilyeu]

Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action.

[Investigative Reporter or Insider]

Three people told me off record. Two people who have this in a written communication from Charlie, one who is a Turning Point USA donor, and I would say very much one of the white knights in this. The very day before Charlie Kirk died, he expressed that he thought he was going to be killed. He told these people, I think they're going to kill me. Okay? He did not express that to me. So I am telling you this based off the testimony of three people. And I am saying this because I hope that these people who I think are good, will be inspired to come forward with that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What she's intimating here is that I have been given even more information than I can tell you, that I have specifics. There are three people that have confirmed these specifics. It's my understanding she said one of them did so in writing. And I am saying I'm not gonna betray that. They told me off the record and as a good. We need a new word for what

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

you can't call it journalism.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That doesn't feel good, but it is some conspiracy era. It's a new era of something. People are bringing her information. She really is able to show people behind the scenes stuff that's turning out some of it to be valid. And so what I want to see is basically like, will the people actually come out? Because she's trying to use the like, listen, I'm not going to rat you out, so if you want to stay invisible, go for it. But you know who you are, I know who you are. I want you to do the right thing. I think you're a good person. Right? So she's trying to pressure them to come out and say the stuff, which obviously would be amazing, but somebody really did kill Charlie, so I can understand why people would be tense. Presumably Candace believes she knows who these people are, and she is intimating, at least how I read it, that those same people have been making her life a hell. But nobody's naming names yet, so. All right, let's play it.

[Investigative Reporter or Insider]

I went ahead this week and sent around a life insurance policy of sorts. Of sorts, a package, rather, to people that I trust. A package filled with text messages, emails, private communications videos, and private legal documents. So if anything happens to me, you guys will know exactly who it is that has been making my life a living hell over the past couple of years. People that are trying to bankrupt me, trying to bankrupt me and my family that are threatening us to sue us. Everything that Kanye said was so real. Okay? I'm now at that point where you look back and you go, man, Kanye was right. He was really saying Something about what

[Tom Bilyeu]

it takes to leave this all comes back and we're like, yo, Kanye was early, bro. He was early.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Kanye did it again. Kanye's undefeated. Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The wildest thing ever.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

He would be intolerable. We wouldn't be able to tell him anything.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Will be as in future. In the future.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

He's got the shade glasses on. He gonna bring them back.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But I really stare at the timeline, dude, that will be the most insane thing ever. Okay, anyway, this is all hearsay right now, but let her keep going. She's got a dead hand.

[Investigative Reporter or Insider]

Switch or custody of your own soul. Just leave me alone. Let me say what I believe, and you say what you believe. Fight fair. Why do you always have to make this threat to bankrupt people?

[Tom Bilyeu]

She has a point there. It's like the process is the punishment. That is an amazing quote. The process is the punishment. Like, there are people that have enough money that they can. Yeah, whatever. It costs a couple million to go in and fight this for the next two or three years. Whatever. It doesn't matter.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Just bankrupt the other person.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, they'll just literally make your life a nightmare. First of all, it's extremely stressful. And then on top of that, it's very expensive. And if you're in a position where you're vulnerable, then it's like, financially vulnerable. Then you're just like, at some point, do I cut bait and run? Because would I rather the whole world think that I'm wrong and me just go do another career and not be millions of dollars in debt? Or do I fight this all the way knowing that I could still lose either legally or in the court of public opinion, and now be the millions of dollars in debt? And having lost, it's wild. And so people coming after someone like her, presumably, listen, we don't know who it is. So this could all be made up in her head. But that certainly is a real strategy. Whether that's being done to Candace or not, it is a real strategy. And many a very wealthy person, organization, government, have run that kind of strategy before. So we certainly know that's a legitimate thing that can happen. Now, whether it's happening to Candace, I don't know. But again, we're back to these sort of vague claims, but I think it's going to be all eyes on this story for a while, but let her keep going.

[Investigative Reporter or Insider]

It happens to me. They have my explicit permission to release it all, detonate it all, expose all of these people in politics and in the movement who behave like this behind the scenes. It's necessary. And I highly recommend every single person that is out there as a platform and is going through things and scared do the same. Send everything around to about eight people that you trust. And, I mean, I've arranged it. I sent it to journalists.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Someone somewhere is like, eight people. I got to take out people, okay,

[Investigative Reporter or Insider]

got it to Andrew Tate. They won't know where it's coming from.

[Tom Bilyeu]

This is going to be wild, man. This already is wild. Okay? You are at the beginning of something very big. And a year from now, people can play this clip. I'm telling you that when you have the amount of information getting out into the world that we have now, something is going to break. I don't know precisely what that's going to be, but things are going to get wild. Humans need a shared narrative in order to march forward together in lockstep, in fact. So I'm writing right now a deep dive on the collapse of America. And it's really weird. I wanted to sort of eject out of it. Obviously, in my typical fashion, I'm trying to show people a way forward. Like, this is how we navigate this well. But the more I tried to say, ok, wait, it's really not this bad. Like, it's not happening. It really does become undeniable. I'll let people judge for themselves. It'll be out in a week. But the need for a shared narrative is part of how we move forward well. And if we don't get a shared narrative, we will not be able to move forward well. And the bad news is, I do in the piece state very explicitly what I think the shared narrative for America needs to be. I even use the word we need to indoctrinate our children. And I'll let people decide for themselves whether they think what I'm suggesting. We all collectively decide we're going to indoctrinate kids with is good or bad. But I don't see another way. Like, we. We really do. It can't be forced from the top down. It's gotta rise up from the bottom up. And admittedly, when I was writing the things that I was writing, it's like I end the paragraph going, look, I know how cheesy that sounds, but it's like, if we don't do that, we're going to be in trouble. And I have almost no faith that as a collective, we'll be able to march forward with a shared narrative. I think shared narratives are born out of pain. And I think a country has to go through. I mean, this is China's rise. China first had to go through a century of humiliation, their words. And with that, they were able to galvanize people with a shared narrative. And now that they have a shared narrative and things are going well, it's like you can't stop them. So we're wildly prosperous, but because we're declining, even though we're still ahead of basically everybody on planet Earth, that decline feels some kind of way. And we absolutely do not have a shared narrative. And we have. This is going to be a weird word. We have, quote, unquote, allowed people to bring all these fracturing, negative narratives. But you have to, because freedom of speech for me, I'm prepared to live in whatever world freedom of speech brings me. And if it brings me this, where we're dealing with all this, so be it. I have a very strong position on that if people want to debate it. But we're going to live in that world. But because we have allowed for all these competing narratives about what America is, what it means to be an American, where we're headed, where we've been, we can't move forward unified. And there's a phenomenal Thomas Sowell quote. I'm going to paraphrase it, but the quote is, there has never been a claim made with so much conviction that lacked all evidence more than the claim that diversity is our strength. And he's like, diversity is not our strength. Diversity is the thing we have to overcome in order to move forward together. Unified unity is our strength. So the question is, when you celebrate diversity to high heaven, how do you move forward together with something cohesive?

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

And you have to let us jump into the Stephen Miller on CNN debate.

[Stephen Miller]

And since the day we came in, ICE officers have been subjected to a nonstop campaign of physical violence and harassment every single day, every night. They come, they fight, they physically attack, protest.

[Interviewer or Moderator]

Is it the case that, as Pritzker frames it, you are profiling brown people?

[Stephen Miller]

That is the. It's such a. Oh, what a dumb question. The illegal aliens who are here are taking jobs away from blacks, they're taking jobs away from Latinos, and of course they're committing.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So it's not a dumb question. And the only honest answer is, I certainly hope so. Because if you are not playing the odds that, like, if you know, illegal aliens, like, that's where you're gonna start. So from an efficiency standpoint, boys and girls, can we just call a spade a spade? But obviously he can't say that. And so, I mean, kudos to him. The administration would have lost their minds but to me, when he laughed and said what a dumb question. That felt so fake. Yeah, so. Yes.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

And I want to say that they

[Tom Bilyeu]

Mexicans are being profiled. I'll just tell you that right now. And I've got a Mexican right here. And we walk Eric to his car to make sure that he doesn't get hat. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

But no, but there is this sense of it now though, that it's the stop, the first stop and frisk equivalent. For those that don't know New York City, there was trying to cut down on crime. Every time a cop seen somebody that they suspect they could stop them, frisk them right there on the spot, no questions asked.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, it. Listen, it's horrible.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah, so I think.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But it's also logical that. Yeah, yeah, horrible, logical.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

I don't know if you also seen this weekend when ice, they blocked a bunch of cars. Blocked.

[Tom Bilyeu]

We're going to need to let him finish. Oh, he's got more spicy stuff.

[Interviewer or Moderator]

There isn't actually a threat that these demonstrators are going to overthrow the government. Are you concerned that that response weakens your legal argument?

[Stephen Miller]

No, they are actually, as we speak, trying to overthrow the core law enforcement function of the federal government. Boris, this is, I think what we're talking past each other. When ICE officers have to street battle against antifa hand to hand combat every night to come and go from their building. When they try to exit in a vehicle, when they are swarmed and surrounded and they try to tip the vehicle over. When people bring weapons to an ICE facility to try to engage in direct violent assault against ICE officers. What is the purpose? It is to prevent Immigration and Customs Enforcement from carrying out the mission the American people elected them to do. Their objective is to make it impossible for ICE to carry out ICE enforcement. When in our history have we tolerated unlawful riotous assemblies night after night around FBI buildings or ATF buildings or DEA buildings? This is the textbook definition of domestic terrorism. Using the actual and imminent threat of violence to keep federal officials from doing their jobs. And unless we send in troops and resources, then we will continue to bleed federal law enforcement resources in these street battles. It's absurd, it's unconstitutional and must be put down.

[Interviewer or Moderator]

You cited Title 10amoment ago. And under that statute, you need either a foreign invasion, a domestic rebellion, or a disturbance that inhibits the ability for law enforcement to carry out federal law. But ISIS still conducting operations.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think these guys are like way reaching to call this stuff an insurrection. It feels like a classic case of they threw that at us. And so we're going to throw it back at them and feels uber childish. But I really don't understand why, like the. I think it was in Portland, the argument was like, bro, it's just the city block. Wait, what? Like you. You've knowingly let protesters take over a city block that are like, blowing things up, lighting fireworks, harassing the ICE officers. Like, it's what? Like, if you would just go in and break that up. And that was the part that I was hoping that we could find.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Somebody said we cut right at the best part. So. Hey.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, is he about to get even spicier?

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

We keep it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Hold on. Let's play.

[Interviewer or Moderator]

Hasn't been overrun. It seems like local officials are fairly in control of the operation if ICE is still able to execute its mission, is it not?

[Stephen Miller]

Do you have any idea how much of ISIS workforce and resources have had to be reprioritized? How much of the Joint Terrorism Task Force's resources have had to be reprioritized to fight these domestic terrorists? Do you have any idea how many resources are spent?

[Interviewer or Moderator]

You keep trying them hyperbolic to call them terrorists.

[Stephen Miller]

What is they know? If anything? I'm understating the severity of the situation. What issue was more central in 2024 than turning back the border invasion? And since the day we came in, ICE officers have been subjected to a nonstop campaign of physical violence and harassment every single day. And outside the Portland field office in particular, every night, they come, they assemble, they fight, they try to impede movement, they physically attack. For what purpose? Because we had an election, Boris. We had one.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What's the purpose?

[Stephen Miller]

To use actual physical violence to change the result of the election. To say you cannot turn back the border invasion.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So they're. They're not doing it to change the results of the election. They're doing it because they want to resist your policy. So that certainly goes too far. But I really cannot wrap my head around the fact that people are, they're just okay with like, yeah, we're going to have people like, going that ham like peaceful protesting all day, every day. Love the most. But once you start being riotous, then the government should 100% come in, break that up, tell people to go home, you can come back when you can, like, protest peacefully, period. End of story. Like, there people act like protesting means that there are no limits to the thing that you can do as long as it's a protest. That's not how this works. It's like, there are certain ways that you can and can't do this.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah, I think he, he's at the last point. Let's let it go a little bit more.

[Stephen Miller]

Do you have any idea how many resources we have had to re designate

[Interviewer or Moderator]

to explain that, Stephen?

[Stephen Miller]

Terrorists.

[Interviewer or Moderator]

Let me ask the question. Let me ask the question. You, you make the case that these are terrorists, but in what we've seen thus far, the actual incidents of people inciting violence and not responding to law enforcement attempting to disperse them are not an open rebellion. I mean, again, you, you, you make this characterization as though they're terrorists. And I do wonder if it is potentially a problem in the future for Republicans if a Democratic president someday calls the National Guard to a red state over what they see as open rebellion. But is what amounts to a demonstration that gets rowdy? I mean, is that not a posting

[Stephen Miller]

pictures of their kids because it's a demonstration. They have a sniper on top of a building firing a high caliber rifle at a nice facility because it's a demonstration and they are engaged vehicle ramming.

[Interviewer or Moderator]

But the National Guard is being sent to Texas. The National Guard isn't being sent to Dallas where that sniper was because the

[Stephen Miller]

Dallas Police Department and the governor of Texas, while you walked right into that one, have responded to every call for assistance and help. They gave a stand down order in Chicago and they gave a stand down order in Portland. Do you realize that there's 11,000 federal law enforcement officers in Oregon that's larger than the size of the FBI. Local and state police are resourced to deal with this kind of riotous assembly, but they have refused. They've been given a standout order. So They've arrested some 70 people since June.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Taking a short break, but there's more Impact theory after. Stay tuned. Thanks for staying tuned. Now let's get back to it. Well, so it's wild. He goes on to say that they have a 911 call where they are. It's on record, them getting the stand down order. It's wild.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

I know a PTA meeting hates to see Stephen Miller coming. Like, I just.

[Tom Bilyeu]

A PTA meeting?

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yes. A parent teacher. Like, I know what PTA is. I just feel like Stephen will be the worst. Like he has to be the worst at like dinner. Where it's like, well, I just ordered the salad and I feel like this is an intrusion. And you guys, like, he's definitely one of those, like, let's go to a birthday party and everybody split the check. And he's like, well, guys, I don't really drink that much, so I'm gonna get My bill set. Like, I get those vibes from him. Did y' all get what I'm saying? Like, it's just something. He's the ick. Yeah, like, amazing. His whole point. All right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

He's way too over the top for me. But here. Here's the thing that I. I'm not sure that I understand the sort of generalized take on this, like, the pushback. No, no, no.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

You.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You cannot have people come into your country illegally. And to me, like, if we're going to focus on a conspiracy, let's focus on the fact that for four years, we had an open border. That is insane. So I want answers as to why people think so. You look up at the night sky, you see the star. Open border. What. What story are people telling themselves about that? Are they. This is just compassion. And America is an amazing place, and we want to make sure that we welcome everybody in. If that's you, you're a moron. So now I'm like, you're not attached to the real world. You don't understand how many ways that that is going to go wrong. So even if that's the answer, that's stupid. If it's like, we want to import cheap labor, it's like. And then at the same time, you're going to notice that wages have stagnated, okay? So you're offshoring jobs as fast as you can. You're on shoring cheap workers as fast as you can. What? Like, that's also a problem. So it's like, this is one where everybody who cares about young people, the kids, the next generation, however you want to think about it, if you care about wealth inequality, you've got to look at this and go, okay, this was so catastrophic. We've got to address this. And people seem to get lost in all the minutia, all the details, instead of going, okay, this is a problem. So the fact that people are protesting this at this level, that this is the thing that we've got to talk about, like, people having a sniper rifle trained on the building like, that they're trying to dox ICE officers. What is happening right now? I can't figure out what they're actually fighting for. So that's the part where I'm like, this doesn't make sense. This does not make sense. It is a massive problem. It's part of the underlying economic issue that's making life in America so difficult. And so the very people who. Part of the reason that they're so angry is because of the economic woes Cannot step, like, over to the side and look back at it and go, oh, I get how one of the biggest problems that we've created is we have robbed the average worker's ability to negotiate well.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

And ironically, is that the immigrant's fault, though? I feel like that's part of it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You have a one, two punch. If you want to know why workers lost the ability to negotiate wages, it is very simple. You outsource jobs and you imported people that will do the jobs that we have here for cheap. Because, listen, if the cost to mow your lawn is twice what we're paying now, then it's twice what we're paying now. There is a point at which people say, oh, I actually want that thing done. And so I'm willing to pay for it. But instead, what we did, and I remember, like, I'm old enough to remember when nobody had house cleaners except wealthy motherfuckers.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And now, like, man, I see people making 200 grand that have a housekeeper. It's like, what, 200 grand in 20, 25? And you have a housekeeper? What are we talking about here? And that is because we have said, hey, we want to bring in a bunch of immigrants that will work for really cheap. Rather than going, like, let's just say that we're willing to bring in whatever, 500,000, a million, two, whatever.

[Stephen Miller]

Pick your number.

[Tom Bilyeu]

If you're going to bring in immigrants, then what should we care about? If you want to freeload, what should we care about? No, no, no, no. We're not escaping that. If you want to freeload, there is a real answer. I even gave it at the beginning of the podcast. If you just want to freeload, you will import entrepreneurs because entrepreneurs generate tax revenue. But we're not. We're importing cheap labor. And so by importing cheap labor, we've created this mythology that, well, Americans aren't going to do those jobs anyway. That's if you pay them enough, Americans will do jobs that are outright dangerous, let alone boring or quote unquote, demeaning. It is merely a gap in what people are willing to pay.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So either we don't care about that thing, having someone come in and clean your house, mow your lawn, whatever, which, hey, back in the fucking 80s, that's

[Interviewer or Moderator]

what kids were for.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So I have mowed more lawns than I care to talk about. I have done more house chores than I care to talk about. So it's like, listen, you can't just keep importing cheap labor. You can't keep outsourcing high end manufacturing and expect workers here to have the ability to negotiate because like, I can always find somebody that'll do.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

I agree with that and those sentences said together make sense. However, in the context of immigration and why people are upset, I feel like those are different people controlling that. Because the H1B1 visas aren't the same demographic, in my opinion, of the people that are fighting for immigration or more lenient borders.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Unfortunately, it's a very similar setup. So an H1B visa should work in the following way. You find the talent that you can't find here, you pay whatever you need to pay because that person is worth their weight in gold. That's why you went all the way to fucking New Delhi to find them and you import them here and you're like, oh, thank God. I could not. I literally couldn't find this person here because America's not training people to do that. America doesn't work.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

That's a fool.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Bear with me.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Bear with me.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, I'm saying this is what it should be.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Oh, copy it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Isn't this. Okay, so it should be this. Instead what it is is, oh, I'm gonna go get just an average engineer for 20% less and I'm gonna bring them in. So again, you're making it impossible for American workers to negotiate because you're like, oh, you won't do it for that amount. Say less, fam. Got you. I'm gonna go get somebody that's cheaper. Now I have brought people in on an H1B visa and legitimately it. I cannot find the person here in the us it doesn't mean they don't exist, but I can't find them for whatever reason they don't want to work in my company. Whatever. I've in no way, shape or form thought, ooh, this is how I'm going to get a cheaper worker. So it can work. Well, there's no reason like for that not to be a thing. We should want America to be the place that the best and the brightest the whole world over come to. And if people would understand that the problem is the government is saying, stealing all of that innovation led deflation. So we want to collect the smartest people from around the world. And that is good for us because they're going to drive costs down. But instead what ends up happening is none of that gets passed on to you. We just pay in the most inefficient way possible for everything under the fucking sun. And now all of a sudden, inflation just keeps going up and Your life is not better. Your life is measurably worse. But it's measurably worse because of policies. It isn't measurably worse because we're attracting the best and the brightest. We're not. We're importing the cheapest labor we can find.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Copy. I kind of want to start at the beginning of this because I feel like I'm starting the argument on third base and I feel like we should

[Tom Bilyeu]

kind of start at the beginning.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah, we should kind of ramp it up a little bit because in context of the Stephen Miller clip right now we have open borders. This is terrible. It's terrorism on the local levels. I understand the. There's your affinity to hate protests and riots. And we need to say what. Yeah, you've been.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I love protests.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Peaceful protests. It has to look a very certain way when it goes outside those lines. You think law and order should step in. Is that a more accurate representation?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I like law and order. Tom likes.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Tom likes law and order. Cool. So I get where. How things should look like. And I'm not looking like that. I understand that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yep.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Now let's go to the next layer. On one side you have ice. Who for the first time I can remember and I follow politics since Obama the first time I've never seen massed like law enforcement officials are able to patrol communities. They're not read rights. They're thrown in the back of vehicles and disappeared. So to me that's like, like state sanctioned.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Like right after 9 11, we were straight kidnapping people. Your. Your ass. Now that's not defending it.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

No, no, but yeah, but that was. That was terrorist. It's a terrorism. Once your terrorist, your rights are gone.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'm telling you, he is literally saying we view these guys as. As terrorists.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Illegal immigrants are now terrorists.

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, he's not saying that. He's not conflating those two issues. He's saying people attacking ICE are terrorists.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

And what I'm saying is it's not the people attacking that are getting thrown in a paddy wagon by the masked people. It's the abuela that works at the dry cleaner that just happened to be outside when the ICE trucks went around the corner.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I say the abuela is also getting thrown in the paddy wagon. But I think these guys really want antifa. Like they would go after the protesters first. Like they're not going to knock the protester back so that they can get abuela into the van. They're going to let go of Aboila and just beat the life out of that guy, which, these are not good things, but this is, I think, would be their. They would much rather fight against that person who they perceive as a Democrat lunatic and just beat them.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

But I think what ends up happening now, though, is when we have Stephen Miller, the most caringist person in the Trump cabinet, when he comes on and starts pushing them deportations, as if the left is scared of deportations. When we deported more people with Obama, Obama was able to deport people without masks, without paddy wagons, without all these things. So I don't necessarily think it's a function of these people don't want people in their country or we're arguing on. It's how we're doing it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Here's the thing. We were not in a populist moment when Obama got elected. When Obama got elected, I stood next to. I don't know why this is always an important part of the story for me, but I stood next to Jared Leto at an airport. Not that he has any idea that I even exist, but we were standing next to each other and we were looking up at the TV screen, we're like, holy shit, Obama got elected. Like, it, it felt some kind of way. Like, it really did feel like hope and change. It was awesome. And so he comes in with that vibe. Of course, if he's like, listen, we just got to do this in his suave ass way. And, yeah, we weren't in the economic dire straits we're in now. We had a president that felt presidential. It felt like hope and change. And he's telling us we got a deport. He's telling us we got a fucking drone strike. People were like, here for it. So it's a very different time that we live in now. And if you think of the official that comes to power as representing what's going on in the subconscious of the, like, popular zeitgeist, things will start to get a lot clearer. So Trump is the thing that has sprung forth from the imagination of the populace. Now we want a strongman who's going to slap the opposition around. That's what we want. That's what people want. In a populist moment, like, as far back as you go in history, you're going to find this over and over and over. So of course you're going to get your Stephen Millers. Of course you're going to get people who are like, yeah, mask up. But you're also on the other side. You're getting people that are like docs the fuck out of them, were you're

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

going to get that counterbalance, right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Okay.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Dude, we are racing away from each other. This is why I am desperate with my deep dives. Especially, like, I'm just trying to get people to understand you must find your way to the middle. I get that you don't want to be in the middle. I get it. It's compromise at a time where you don't want to compromise. I fully understand. And yet I'm not confused. I'm saying you still have to find your way back to the middle. You have to find a way to work with these people that you perceive as lunatics, because they need to find a way to work with you, and they perceive you to be a lunatic. And so it's like, hey, we're in a family. Divorce is a lot worse than reconciliation. We've got to find a way to reconcile. So in a populist moment, yes, you're going to have the people that are up there with the sniper rifles aimed at the ice building. Yes. You are going to have ice people wearing masks because they know they're getting doxxed. Yes, you're going to have people trying to dox their family. Yes, you're going to have people say things. I just saw a tweet yesterday where the guy finished it off by saying, don't die slow or anything. So it's like, people. People are unhinged.

[Interviewer or Moderator]

People are.

[Tom Bilyeu]

They're not everybody. Obviously, there's far more lovely people than there are problematic people. But the problematic people now are dictating policy. It's. That's what's driving the vibe. That's what's driving the national conversation. And so once you understand that that is a. It is not fair to say, well, Obama acted one way and Trump acts another. They are both essentially figments of the imagination of the public. They are the person who said and did whatever they needed to say and do to get elected in that moment. They are the person that had the temperament in that moment to succeed. Now it. You don't have to go far to find people that'd be like, obama's the one to blame for this. Like, he spouted all the racial rhetoric. He made everything super divisive. Everything came down to race. And so that played into it. And I will just say, once again, all that matters, fix the fucking economy. And if you fix the economy, all the other stuff will recede into the background.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Once again, let's jump into a reaction. The job market has recorded one of the biggest losses in years. It's interesting, too, because I know you're kind of at the front line of this with Zero the founder. You're seeing a lot of new entrepreneurs and people being forced into entrepreneurship now. And with these job numbers for the last couple of months, it seems like that is going to be a growing pattern as we keep losing jobs.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, I mean listen, I think that we are, I think we've been in a stealth recession for a year or more.

[Economic Analyst]

So we are witnessing the biggest job loss in years which is going to force the Federal Reserve to continue cutting interest rates. The official jobs report by the government was supposed to be released on Friday, October 3rd. However, because the politicians could not agree on a government funding bill on time, the federal government has shut down and consequently the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not release the report. Therefore, people have been relying on the ADP jobs reports which at least gives us insights into the labor market situation in the private sector. And for the month of September, the ADP report shows that the private sector lost 32,000 jobs. This was the biggest decline in two and a half years. Another report that we'd like to look at regardless of whether the BLS jobs report is released or not is the Challenger Reports. This is on page one of the report and in the chart I've highlighted the months of 2025 it says so far this year companies have announced 946,426 job cuts. The highest year to date since 2020. That is 55% higher compared to the same time period in 2024. And on page two of the report it says it's very likely job cut plans are going to surpass a million for the first time since 2020. Again, we're currently at 946,000. So I would say that surpassing that amount is very likely. And it says that previous periods with this many job cuts occurred either during recessions or during periods of transformative technology. So for here I mean of course they're referring.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

So I think what he said at the end is really the banger is that it's either been in times of recessions or transformative technology. So I know a lot of these job cuts are coming from AI being unloaded to a lot of these software and tech companies. Some of them is just the COVID money is running out and the over inflated economy is coming back to life. In general, how are you feeling about the jobs report? The jobs situation?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I mean it'll be good to get the Bureau of Labor Statistics and get the quote unquote official numbers. But yeah, none of this is surprising. This is terrible news. We, we are in a position right now where you basically have, whatever, seven companies that represent most of the gains of the S P500. So you can look at the stock market and think everything is roaring, but the reality is that that's not really what's going on. That inflation is hitting everybody hard, that people have felt pinched for years now. And when people start feeling pinched, they start slowing down their expenses. When only 10% of the world own 93%. Sorry, 10% of Americans own 93% of the assets in America. You just don't have enough people spending money. The individual debt in America is insane. Trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars. So it's just people so hamstrung right now that, yeah, you're going to see more and more and more of this, especially as we realize that the jobs that were gained were in the government sector. And so they're not producing anything. And that just makes inflation worse. That when you're overspending on the government, that you're going to have to end up reducing some of these jobs. So, I mean, we'll see how bad this gets. But it's, we're, we are trending in a scary direction. There's no doubt about that.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

What, how would you like, equate the government? Like, okay, say the economy is a cake, right? Do you think that the jobs report is like the flour, the eggs, or is it more so, the icing? And there's other factors that are driving these jobs reports. Because I know a lot of times we look at the jobs report, we say, this is bad economy, bad check. But should there be other things in this cake recipe that we should look

[Tom Bilyeu]

at that might where the jobs go matter a lot? So you start getting into flour and eggs territory. If this is in jobs being created in the private sector, that is an incredibly good leading indicator. It isn't the thing itself. But GDP technically isn't the thing itself either. It's really, you're looking at a confluence of factors. Are real wages going up huge? Is inflation steady at a minimum at a very low level? That would be ideal. I think we all know, I want to see it come down. Where are interest rates? What's the average price of a home? Like? You start looking at that, like, basket of goods and you get a pretty clear picture. And right now just take them one at a time. Jobs are in free fall. You're realizing that most of the jobs we thought we had gained, we hadn't actually gained because they were just in the private sector and we'd been revising numbers down like crazy.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

The

[Tom Bilyeu]

economy is not growing, certainly not at the rate that we expected it to or traditionally have been able to look at. The real wages aren't going up. So housing is completely unaffordable for the vast majority of Americans. So it's like you start looking at all of those individually and it's like you just don't have a lot of green lights. So. And then we're so partisan that we can't even agree on getting government spending under control. We can't agree on the things that we need to do to start making housing more affordable. So it, oh, man, it, it is. I want to make sure that we stay focused on the simple, though they will be difficult to get people on board, but the simple steps that we need to walk people down in order to get them to do the right thing. As a commentator, that's one of the things I want to make sure that I'm just constantly adding back into the conversation. So we need to make housing affordable. So we're gonna have to deregulate there. We've gotta. Right now Trump has a growth only plan. The only thing that Trump is focused on is grow, grow, grow. So we've gotta make sure that we get the deregulations in place that are actually going to allow us to grow. Seeing how people are wiling out over the cuts to the Affordable Care Act. If we're gonna literally add that money back in, which, oh my God, then we've got to start cutting somewhere or you've got to race to unlocking money. So, yeah, that growth, I mean, so that's going to be really critical and getting people into assets, getting people to start making a move today to start investing. I'm going to be talking more about private equity coming up because, man, I look at seven companies driving all of the economic gains in the stock market and I start getting a little leery about pushing people too hard into that. So I need to do a deep dive myself. Not that I'll actually do a deep dive content on this because the world won't go for it, but I need to really start educating myself about. The average person can access that. But if we don't get people into assets, we're in trouble. If we don't get to really get power back into the hand of the average worker in terms of negotiating power so we can get real wages up, we're going to be in trouble. We've got to onshore some Manufacturing people know my loop, so that's going to be critical.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

All right, let's jump over to China right now. I feel like we need a unified enemy, and I'm hoping China messes up so that way we can stop focusing on eating each other and start focusing on eating somebody else. You know, I just. We need a bad guy to rally around. So I'm hoping China.

[Tom Bilyeu]

China's our guy.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah, like, they. They might fall in line, so. But yeah, let's dive into Fox Business.

[News Anchor or Interviewer]

Welcome back. Now China is pushing President Trump to drop security restrictions on Chinese in America in exchange for a massive investment into the US as trade negotiations are underway, the president is considering an aid package for American soybean farmers as Beijing boycotts US Imports.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Bro, if Trump really just outweighed a G and Trump pushed him into a corner, that was like, okay, I'm Xi. Nobody gets to push me around because people don't understand. They don't understand Xi. They think Xi is Deng Xiaoping. Deng Xiaoping was like, doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice. Deng Xiaoping introduced capitalism. Xi Jinping is taking us back to Mao and, like, the authoritarian top down rule. I'm dictator for life. Like, that whole thing. And it's terrifying. As somebody who wants to see China thrive, I don't want them to beat us, but I want to see them thrive. I'm not trying to hobble anybody. I don't want to kneecap the competitors. But he's not moving us in a good direction, everybody. And look, the jury's still out. Trump really may be the buffoon here, but everybody clowned on Trump saying China's in a way stronger position. We're going to be able to outlast America. People were like, they're a dictator. Like, they can really. I mean, I said they were a dictator and they could just make their people wait. And Trump was like, nah. Like, this is going to hurt them more than it's going to hurt us. And Besson just kept telling people, hey, whenever you're the place that they're selling this stuff to, you're in a far better position than being the one that's trying to sell the stuff. And if this ends up playing out, oh, buddy. If this, like, comes to pass, like, if either Xi gets ousted and somebody new comes in and is like, hey, let's do a deal, or Xi finally lets a deal be made. Ooh, buddy. Ooh, buddy. Drew, that will be. It'll be Trump and Candace holding hands like, doing victory laps as she is somehow proven correct. And if Trump is able to pull this off of China. Oh, my God. All right, anyway, that's all speculation. Let's hear what our lady has to say here.

[News Anchor or Interviewer]

He's also vowing to confront China, Xi Jinping at their upcoming meeting on the sidelines of the APEX Sign Summit at the end of this month. Joining me now with more on all of this is the Gatestone Institute senior fellow, Gordon Chang. Gordon, good to see you. Thank you so much for being here. And I want to ask you about this deal that Beijing is trying to get President Trump to. To accept. I mean, you're talking about a major Chinese investment pledge up to a trillion dollars. Is that going to get President Trump to relax security rules on Beijing? What do you think?

[Interviewer or Moderator]

Well, President Trump actually floated the idea when he told the American people that it would be a good idea that there would be more Chinese investment in the US but he hasn't pursued it, which looks like he was really just sort of floating a balloon. This would be an extraordinarily bad idea because Chinese investment buys Chinese influence, and there's already way too much Chinese influence corrupting our country.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, bro. So if I've got a promise in the US That I'm going to encourage a trillion dollars in you, I'm going to snatch up some more farmland. I'm going to buy a bunch of real estate. It's like Trump would have to be very explicit about what would actually help us and put them in a tough spot. Something like advanced manufacturing here in the US Would be more useful. But the thing that gives me the heebie jeebies air is part of the reason that they let Tesla into China was to learn from what he was doing from a manufacturing standpoint. Tesla gave birth to the electrical vehicle industry in China. Tesla. And now Tesla's like a small player.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah. Byd, like, leaped them.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So anyway, it's. It's risky. I do worry a little bit about heavy China investment.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah. I think one, we got to talk about the soybean thing because somebody in the chat shouted it out. And I appreciate it. You know how Argentina is going through the financial problem problems. We bailed out Argentina by giving them an IMF alone. Through the imf, Argentina got in front of our deal with China because they were. We were the soybean providers for China. Argentina is now selling them to China for a lower cost. So Trump got beef. I helped Argentina out. Now you guys kind of lowballed us to G GS on it. Just playing a whole nother game because he's like, all right, you guys are being stingy with the chips and all this. I'm undercut you on the soybeans. So it seems like this is all James Burnham, political theater, political maneuvering. Everybody's trying to get a business deal done to make their country look the best. Am I missing it by reading it that plainly?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I would read it a little bit differently. I would say when people are desperate, they're going to do desperate things. And so Argentina, obviously, Malay's entire career is bet on whether he can pull off all of the moves that he's pulled off. And if they just hit as severe of a hiccup as it sounds like they hit, and he's going to be desperate to, like, do what, whatever the hell he can. And so he's running some calculus that's like, listen, I got the loan. This is going to upset Trump, but we'll be able to smooth it over. I'll be able to sweet talk him. If Xi really is in danger of losing power because of what's happening in the economy, then he's also going to do deals with whoever, wherever. So it's not political theater. This is like fighting for survival. And also, China has been very shrewd over decades about doing international deals, about doing things that box America, America out, about doing things that make them stronger and give them regional influence. And so here's the really bad news. When Mao was in charge and his own people were starving to death, tens of millions at a time, he was still selling grain internationally to curry favor to get weapons. Like, so China does not have a good history of, like, brokering deals with, like, sort of high ethics and morals at the center of their calculus. So we'll see. I don't know enough about the soybean thing specifically to know maybe it's just a good business move and, yeah, no big deal, nothing to see here. Or it could be that Xi is, like, doing desperation moves, does not care if it's good for his people or not. Does not. Is just trying to, like, basically, basically antagonize the US and hurt the US in any way, shape or form that he can. So let's let him go on because they make some interesting points, but I don't yet know how much of this is real. We're going to need to see because so often people say that China is about to go under. People have said that Putin's losing power and he never does. So I don't know that he's Actually losing power. But he makes some interesting claims here in a second.

[Interviewer or Moderator]

So we should be going in the opposite direction, not encouraging Chinese money into our country.

[News Anchor or Interviewer]

Yeah, I mean, Xi Jinping knows that President Trump wants more and more investment into America. He's trying to float this now in front of him, but you're dealing with an adversary here and they're undermining America at every turn. So I agree. This is very important to walk carefully around Gordon. I mean, South Korean news outlets are reporting that the Chinese delegation may have canceled their hotel reservations in Seoul, raising questions about Xi's attendance there. You mentioned this to me first last week when I saw you off camera. You said you think they've canceled the hotel reservations. What do you think is happening here? Is Xi Jinping going to show up?

[Interviewer or Moderator]

Yeah, we don't know. David Perdue, our ambassador to Beijing, on September 23 publicly said in Beijing that it was unlikely that Presidents Trump and Xi Jinping would meet this year. That was four days, Maria, after Trump social posting said that he would meet Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the APEC summit. This is extraordinary. We don't know exactly what's going on, but it tends to corroborate these rumors of intense infighting at the top of the Chinese political system. Because if Xi Jinping doesn't meet Trump this year, it means probably that Xi Jinping is not going to apec. If he's not going to apec, it could mean that he's not permitted to leave China or he does not want to leave China for fear of not being able to get back in. We just.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Do you know how crazy that is?

[Interviewer or Moderator]

We do.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Listen, that is hearsay. Who knows? We don't know that this is true. But the fact that he's saying that Xi Jinping might not be able to leave China because he might not be able to get back in. Like, yo. That would, needless to say, be extremely disruptive to China. So, man, we'll see. But I don't love him being a dictator for life. And so, man, I hate to say it, I don't want to see China become unstable, even if that does help the US But I really don't want to see them with a dictator. So we'll see.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

I feel like that's a bomb right there because we were talking about tariff revenue. And yes, we're playing the tariff game. Yes, we made deals with smaller companies, but. But the China deal is the deal. This is what makes or break the terror.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, yes. And if, if, if what we're Seeing the stars in the sky, the constellation that they actually put together, if that really is that the trade war with China, the US Was able to break China to the point where they oust their leader for life. That would be a massive win. A massive win for us.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

But, I mean, shouldn't we figure out who's the next leader first, though, before we should.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Look, that kind of thing can break bad. But you would presume that they're not saying, oh, Xi is just not being a big enough bully. You would assume that. What they're saying is, we need somebody that can actually do business with the U.S. we need somebody that's not going to be so antagonistic. We need somebody that isn't just this prideful. I am very much projecting now, but when I watched the way he handled Covid with the zero COVID policy, it was like somebody was completely unhinged from reality who thought, just because I make a strong enough edict, that that will make this thing go away. It's like, bro, viruses don't work like that. Good luck. And so that was like, iron boot time.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And so when I saw that, I was like, ooh, this guy will really, like, double down, triple down, quintuple down on a position. Which is not always the smartest thing. Say what you want about Taco Tuesdays with Trump, but it's like he knows when to back off of a position. He'll float something out. Oh, people don't like that.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Cool.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'm going to maneuver around it. Xi obviously does not do that. That is not his tendency. And so, given his refusal to engage in meaningful dialogue directly with Trump, that feels like, from my Westerner, 10 years, that very much feels like somebody who is so locked in the Chinese perspective of everybody needs to recognize the hierarchy. Everybody needs to know who the top dog is here. And Xi sees China now as having surpassed the U.S. you have to read the book on Xi Jinping. It is a very fascinating book, very contemporary, written very recently. And the hypothesis being put forward is people do not understand how different Xi is from Deng Xiaoping. They don't understand that this is somebody that has been very quiet about where we are on the world stage and then has rapidly ratcheted up, no, no, no. Now we've leapfrogged the U.S. now we're going to start being. I don't remember if the word they use was disrespectful. It was either disrespectful or dismissive. So it's like we're going to be dismissive. Of the U.S. and it's like, that's not the person that you want. From an American perspective, that's not the person you want in charge of China. And if China is now saying, hey, fuck nuts, like, we can't have you acting like that. Regardless of whether we're ahead of America or not, we need to recognize right now this is a multipolar world. Maybe one day we want to be a unipolar world. We're not there. So we need to figure out ways to recognize that these tariffs alone are causing us mass problems. Now, I'm way reading into this. I don't know that's where we're at, but that certainly is corroborated by what these guys are saying.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah, but I mean, if you're scared to leave your country with fear of

[Tom Bilyeu]

getting back in, that we don't know, that's.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What's going on. That's a prediction in the future. But it's like the fact that those are the rumors that are coming out of China. We'll see. I think a lot of times this stuff is overblown. Also, never underestimate Xi Jinping. The fact that he was able to rise to the top of Chinese politics and make himself supreme leader for life is like, yeah, it's pretty impressive.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Based off the research in the book and stuff that you read on him. Do you know what his North Star is? I mean, of course I'm not expecting you to give me the full philosophy of him, but, like, I can give you China. Is it the 100 years embarrassment that he's trying to overcome?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Like, yes, the fastest way to understand Xi Jinping's take is that China is. Has the mandate of heaven. China is meant to be the quote unquote, Middle Kingdom, the most important kingdom in the world. Like, that is what God intends for China. So anytime that that isn't true, like, now we've got a problem. And so he believes that that is God's will. And that's what we have to get back to.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

I feel like when a radical Islamists say that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I was just gonna say here's the when whenever people are invoking God like that. But it is, it is a very common thing that humans like to do. We're the chosen ones, right? Ah, you hear that a lot. All right, so, hey, speaking of generating more tax revenue for everybody, we have a leadership mistakes costing you millions workshop coming up for our zero to founder community. So if you're already doing a million dollars in revenue, make sure that you come check that out. It's Tuesday, October 14th at 1:00pm this one has been very popular. One of the biggest complaints that I see from entrepreneurs is just leadership. How do I hire right? How do I task my employees right? How do I deal with KPIs, things like that. I've got a banger workshop on that, if I do say so myself. I've had more than 3,000 employees in my life, so I am well aware of leadership principles, how to get people pointed in the right direction. So I hope you guys will join me for that. Tuesday, October 14th at 1:00pm it is designed. The program, which is known as Billion Dollar CEO is designed for people doing at least a million dollars already. If you're not doing that, we offer another program called Zero to Founder, so be sure to look out for that. But we are doing that program coming up. It is a free workshop, so join me 1pm Pacific Time, Tuesday, October 14th. It is really. We've had a lot of good things come out of that, so it is free. Make sure you join. Click the link in the description right now. Register for the workshop now, now, now. And I will see you guys October 14th and we'll also see you guys all. We're going to be coming live, I think, from this very same space again on Friday. So we will be here. Same bad times, same bad channel. All right everybody. Until then, be legendary. Take care. Peace.

[Co-host or Guest Commentator]

Peace.

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