Europe’s Slow Suicide: Immigration, Fake History, and the West’s Crisis of Confidence | Impact Theory w Tom Bilyeu Raymond Ibrahim pt. 2

Summary

Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu ft. Raymond Ibrahim, Part 2
Episode Title: Europe’s Slow Suicide: Immigration, Fake History, and the West’s Crisis of Confidence
Date: March 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging, provocative discussion, Tom Bilyeu sits down with historian and author Raymond Ibrahim to examine the collision between Europe and the Islamic world, the "fake history" shaping current discourse, and his controversial thesis that Western self-doubt is accelerating its decline. The episode dives deep into the legacies of colonialism and jihad, myth-busting around slavery and the Crusades, demographic crises, and the importance of civilizational confidence.

Ibrahim expands on how historical narratives are weaponized, why Western culture has lost its defensive instincts, and makes the case that reclaiming history and true self-knowledge is vital—not for hatred or division, but for societal survival. Tom presses Ibrahim on possible ways forward, the possibility of reform within Islam, the fate of Europe, and the spiritual and philosophical undercurrents shaping our era.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Dual Legacy of Colonialism and Islam’s Historical Conquests

[01:11–08:48]

• Debate: Is it possible colonialism had any positive effects? Tom pushes Ibrahim on why some nations report nostalgia for the colonial era.
• Ibrahim’s argument: In comparing European colonialism with Islamic conquests, he claims colonial rule sometimes provided “boons”—infrastructure, legal frameworks, modernization—which many local populations accepted and sometimes even praised (citing sources from 19th–early 20th centuries).
• Contrast with Islamic conquest: Ibrahim states that for centuries, Islamic empires enslaved and devastated European lands (e.g., Spain, Balkans), without imparting comparable benefits, and subject populations were mainly exploited.
• Memorable quote:

  “If you look at, let’s say, the 1800s… writings of people living there in Egypt, which I have, they talk about this as the best time ever.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [04:28]

The West’s Crisis of Confidence and Cultural Emulation

[05:03–08:48]

• Transformation: Once-powerful Islamic societies, when dominated by a confident West, emulated Western dress, law, and culture. Today, the roles are reversed—the West is apologetic; Muslim immigrants are less eager to assimilate and may even express contempt for perceived Western weakness.
• Influence of Sayyid Qutb, whose time in the US inspired his later calls for maintaining Islamic values while borrowing Western technology.
• Insight: The psychological aspect—strength inspires emulation, weakness invites disdain.
• Memorable quote:

  “Back then, it was a confident Europe who is coming in... That doesn’t inspire them [Muslims]. That doesn’t make them like you. That actually gives them nothing but contempt.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [06:54]

The Danger of Fake History

[08:48–11:32]

• Ibrahim warns about the impact of pervasive “fake history”—distorted narratives that cast the West (specifically “the white man”) as uniquely evil, ignoring comparable behaviors from other groups, including Islamic civilizations.
• He states the abolition of slavery worldwide began in the West; slavery itself was a universal norm.
• Memorable quote:

  "I find fake history much more problematic... it creates overarching narratives and paradigms and people see reality through it.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [09:45]

Persistent Myths in Western Understanding of Islam’s History

[15:47–19:43]

• Discussion of historian John Esposito’s portrayal of centuries of “peaceful coexistence” before the Crusades, which Ibrahim challenges as historical whitewashing.
• Details atrocities committed during Islamic expansions and the rationale for the First Crusade as a "belated rebuttal" to centuries of aggression.
• Notable quote:

  “In one year alone, in 1009... one caliph, according to Muslim sources, destroyed 30,000 churches.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [17:05]

Case Study: Spain and the Dynamics of Reconquista

[19:43–29:12]

• The 800-year ebb and flow of Muslim and Christian rule in Spain showcased as a “microcosm” for the larger civilizational struggle.
• Myths of the “golden age” of tolerance are critiqued (“maybe a decade in those centuries”).
• The complex legacy of forced conversions, “taqiya” (religious dissimulation), and the ultimate expulsion of Muslims.
• Present-day irony: Spain granting citizenship to new African Muslim migrants, echoing, in Ibrahim's view, repeating patterns of history.
• Quote:

  “The continuum continues with Islam, but the west has had a massive break, and it just doesn’t learn from its history... which is why Europe... is doing everything to kill itself.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [28:17]

Western Demographic Decline and Political Paralysis

[29:12–39:30]

• Referencing figures like Peter Boghossian (who believes Europe is already “dead” demographically), Ibrahim is skeptical but warns that the lack of will to enforce borders, or even debate the issue, is a crisis of cultural resolve.
• He pushes back on the idea that Muslims are “invading”—instead, Western societies are, in effect, “inviting” them due to their own ideological commitments.
• Contrasts with Hungary and Poland's straightforward, if controversial, border policies.
• Quote:

  “You people always say, oh, UK is being invaded. No, they’re not being invaded. You’re inviting them. This is your problem. You’re doing this to yourselves.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [39:34]

Question: Can Islam Experience its Own Enlightenment?

[42:01–47:47]

• Tom asks why Muslims don't have a reformation or enlightenment, and if it’s possible.
• Ibrahim distinguishes between Protestant sola scriptura ("Bible alone") and what he sees as the trend among Muslims: more direct engagement with foundational texts leads to increased radicalization, not moderation, because “the texts are very different.”
• “Enlightenment” would require widespread loss of faith, and Ibrahim sees little chance of that, given current dynamics.
• Memorable moment:

  “The rise of radical Muslims, as they’re called. They are the Muslim Protestants…”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [44:46]

Masculinity, Religion, and Identity

[47:47–55:24]

• Tom probes the difference between emulating Jesus (“soft vibes”) and Muhammad (“splitter of vertebrae” scimitar), noting the rising appeal of Islam for disenfranchised Western men.
• Ibrahim contends Christianity once had “muscular,” militant elements—crusaders, chivalry, just war—but modernity has emasculated it.
• He distinguishes between reclaiming this legacy for defense, not aggression.
• Quote:

  “There is, I think... a militant side, even to Christianity. Not necessarily physical, not war, but assertive, muscular Christianity, which I’m a firm believer and a promoter of.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [48:57]

Is Christianity Necessary for Western Resilience?

[55:24–60:17]

• Tom questions whether Ibrahim’s analysis relies on personal faith.
• Ibrahim sees himself more as a “civilizational Christian,” saying his historical studies keep “validating the truths of Christianity.” It’s reality, not dogma, guiding him.
• He shares the historical curiosity that both in the 7th and 17th centuries, Christians blamed their loss to Muslims on “sexual immorality” and cultural decadence—parallels, he notes, to current European trends.
• Anecdote:

  “The whole thing is, yeah, God is punishing us because of sexual immorality, because men are dressing like women, women are dressing like men, believe it or not. Wild.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [55:51]

Deep Causes of Decline—Spiritual and Structural

[61:52–64:58]

• Tom offers a secular model: when societies become too prosperous and open, they lose structure and resilience, making them vulnerable to confident outsiders.
• Ibrahim accepts this, but emphasizes that history—and possibly faith—constantly points to the perils facing societies that lose their conviction.

Message to Moderate Muslims

[64:58–66:26]

• Tom asks what Ibrahim would say to a moderate Muslim who feels attacked.
• Ibrahim: If they are truly moderate, they should recognize he’s critiquing ideas, not people, and that he uses Islamic sources for his claims. Many “moderate” or “cultural” Muslims, he suggests, already privately agree.

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Notable Quotes

• On Historical Amnesia:

  “A lot of people we know of the concept of fake news... Fake history is much more problematic... it creates overarching narratives and paradigms and people see reality through it.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [09:45]

• On Demographic Decline:

  “I don’t think it’s too late. . . but I think it’s a lot harder than you think. . .the whole culture needs to change. It’s a paradigm shift.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [35:10]

• On Islam and Enlightenment:

  “The Protestant thing... led to more radicalization [in Islam] because the texts are so different.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [44:32]

• On Civilizational Identity:

  “If you’re not Christian, if you’re an atheist… if you’re born and raised in this Western milieu, you’re going to be—you are—a Christian despite yourself.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [54:46]

• On Agency:

  “It’s not the Muslims… It’s you guys who are doing this. You are the... open vacuum and something else is going to fill it.”
  —Raymond Ibrahim [40:51]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:11] – Setting the stage: Colonialism’s legacy and its controversial upsides
• [04:28] – Ibrahim argues colonized populations sometimes did view those days as “the best time ever”
• [09:45] – “Fake history” vs. fake news—impact on modern perspectives
• [17:06] – Example: Destruction of 30,000 churches in one year
• [20:20] – The Spanish "Reconquista": fact vs. modern myth
• [28:17] – How Europe forgot its own stories and repeats the past
• [35:10] – Demography, European decline, and the illusion of quick fixes
• [39:34] – “You’re inviting them. This is your problem.”
• [44:28] – Islamic “Reformation” leads to radicalization: “Muslim Protestants”
• [48:57] – “Muscular Christianity” and the appeal of Islam to Western men
• [55:51] – Historical Christian explanations: societal weakness and divine punishment
• [64:58] – What Ibrahim says to moderate Muslims
• [66:30] – Where to follow Raymond Ibrahim: website, books, YouTube, Substack

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Tone and Closing

Tone:
Direct, challenging, and historical; at times provocative with a clear sense that deep cultural change is both necessary and deeply fraught. Ibrahim combines historical recitation with polemical analysis, always returning to specifics and primary sources. Tom Bilyeu maintains a probing but respectful stance, seeking clarity and practical implications.

Takeaways:
This episode urges the audience to question comfortable narratives, understand the origins and complexities of global conflicts, and grapple with the internal factors that shape the fate of civilizations. Whether or not listeners agree with Ibrahim, the conversation makes clear that understanding history—warts and all—is critical for today’s world.

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Transcript

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[A]

back to part two of this incredible conversation. Without further ado, here we go. All right, pause right there for a second.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think this is going to be very important. So obviously there are people right now in the comments freaking out why that you would say that anything positive came out of colonialism.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now let's set the stage. Why didn't they have those things before? Why the Arabs, Muslims, whoever, whatever nation they're going into that should be. And I'm sure some of them do actually say, well we did get a couple bits and bobs out of this, but why didn't they have those things? Was there something about the west, the culture, the religion, whatever. Like does Christianity bring you science? Because Christians killed a lot of scientists. So like what, what was it about the west that was good? What's the relationship between Islam and the Dark Ages? Like I know there's a tie there, so walk me through why there's even that dichotomy in the first place where you could get the west coming in. And colonialism, despite the brutality is somehow also a little bit positive.

[B]

All right. And to try to answer that, let me tell you what, what, what let's say Islam did. So we had. We can kind of balance what we're talking about. So I told you before, that is the conquest and Muslims enter Christian, even European territories and they conquer them until today. Okay. If you look at Spain and the Balkans and then they have their deep history, the Spaniards and the Balkans and they still that are so devastated just from warfare. Okay. From with the Muslims and what was brought at the time. I mean literally, if you look at the sources. It was in mass enslavement. Okay. And we're talking about from the very beginning, let's say the 8th century, when Muslims entered Spain until, you know, the Ottomans are finally become the, you know, the, the. The old man of Europe, which is like in the 19th century. Okay, you could look at that. There's a million. There's all this enslavement, but there's none of the countries in the European countries. And they all go talk to Hungarians, go talk to Romanians. They tell you our land has been devastated and there was nothing brought here. Okay? And. And not necessarily even because, you know, I mean, yeah, it was because the Muslims are not going to give the good stuff to their subject slave people. All right? But they didn't also have the technology at the time. So now you're asking me why did the west end up having the great technology that's, you know, that's open to debate why they progress. But they had it and they brought it. So it was actually called, it was understood and by Europeans, as you're. Maybe you're familiar, the white man's burden. I've certainly heard the Rudyard, okay, Rudyard Kipling, he was, well, he was a writer and some clerk, I think, in India. This is during the colonial era. And, you know, the white man and I talk about triggering, but the white man saw his, his, his mission is to go and civilize the savages of Asia, the Muslim countries, Africa. Okay? So they went, they conquered, they colonized, but they saw it like, look, we're bringing them to this, that and the other thing. Now, here's the important point, okay? That's the. A lot of people said, well, that's the European narrative. Guess what? If I, and I've read books and I've. Because I've researched this. If you look at, let's say the 1800s, which is the high, high moment of colonialism, depending on the country. Also in the early 1900s, if you look at the writings of the people living there in Egypt, which I have, they talk about this as the best time ever. Okay?

[A]

Colonialism.

[B]

Yes, colonialism. Algeria just passed a law because Algeria

[A]

was written by people that were. I'm writing this sentence under colonialism.

[B]

Yeah. This is the era they're living in and the way they talk and the way they describe things. This is the best time ever.

[A]

Are they not worried that their writing is being monitored?

[B]

No, because everyone agreed with them. Okay? Out of Turk. So the Ottoman Empire was the scourge of Europe for centuries. This is a Historic fact. It was the jihadist standard bearer. More than the Arabs historically. Once they start losing and Europe is now becoming stronger.

[A]

So they're losing to Europe.

[B]

Yeah, losing to Europe, losing land, you know, just using. Losing the momentum. And now Europe is stronger and moving in. Once that starts happening, you know what they do? They completely emulate the Europeans. They get Turkish used to be Ottoman. Turkish was written with the Arabic script. They said, oh, that's backwards. We want to adopt the European Alphabet. We shaved. They all shaved their beards. They put on suits and ties. Women were dressed in Western dress. No more hijab. Okay? That's not because Europeans forced them. This was because you were talking about confidence. It was because the European colonialists were very confident about their culture, the subject people saw the boons they were coming with and they were the winning dog. And guess what? We want to be like that. We want to copy that. If you look at pictures from these Middle Eastern nations, you will be amazed. If you look at a 1920s picture compared to 2020, 1920s, you'll think you're looking at Europe in 2020. You're looking at, you know, 7th century Arabia is how it looks. A lot of that was because there was a sort of symbiotic relationship between and. Which is still going on today. And you have alluded to it, but it's much worse today. It's the opposite. Back then, it was a confident Europe who is coming in, and Muslims are now. Islam fell to the wayside. And there's a theory that the re And I kind of touched on it. The reason that Islam ever even mattered was because it was seen as the winning horse. People sided with Muhammad once he started getting stronger. And the more the conquest spread, the more people became Muslims and, oh, you become richer and you have a piece of the plunder and etc. Etc. Okay, so when Muslims started saying, oh, you know what? Islam gets me nothing. I'm living in the desert. Whereas these people are progressing and they're bringing all this magic with them. Science and technology and medicine. Oh, let's act like them. Okay? That's literally what happened. And I was just telling you there's an Algeria just passed the law. Because actually, if you're an Algerian, and it's mostly. This is geared towards older Algerians who lived during the colonial era of under France. If you speak well of it, you can go to jail. Okay. If you speak well of the French colonial era, and I was telling you because a lot of people look back nostalgically, older generations that was the good time. Okay, now, what's happening today, which you've touched on, is the exact opposite. In as much as the west has started to lose faith in itself, lose its confidence and become, you know, like a doormat and tell everyone, oh, your culture is way better than ours, that Muslims are not impressed by that. That doesn't inspire them. That doesn't make them like you. That actually gives them nothing but contempt. And they say, yeah, okay, yeah, you're right. My culture is better than yours. And so. And this all really coalesced with one man. His name is Sayyid Qutb. He was an Egyptian. He's with the Muslim Brotherhood. And, you know, by all measures, he was moderate, if you want to use that term. And then he came to the United states in the 50s and he spent time, and he was just aghast at what he saw, what he considered immoral behavior, especially that men and women were freely consorting. Long story short, he went back and he became a very popular writer and chief theoretician for the Brotherhood. And his conclusion was, okay, yeah, these people are good with science, technology, whatever. Let's appropriate and learn that. But we want nothing to do with our culture because it's just pathetic. And it's just. They're. They're pathetic. This is. They're just crazy. So what? Well, what cultures are Muslims going to fall back on then? Well, Islam. So there's definitely been that kind of response, but it's. It's in complete. It's the computer. You know, you're telling me about your viewers, and this really reminds me of. I had a. I did an interview with me and Peter Boghossian, and it's fantastic. Yeah. And a cameraman, I think, if you've seen it. I have. Was unhinged.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And everything he said, I mean, I'm just Sorry, but it's like, you're wrong. You don't know your history. It just seems like people today, the history they've been indoctrinated in, is white man bad, everyone good, white man evil, everyone, passive victim. And I'm not here to exonerate white man. I don't think of myself as a white man, by the way. Okay, so. But whatever the white man did, you know what? The others guys did it too. And in an. Often in a much more graphic way. And it's kind of like, so where's the balance? And his, you know, I even told him everything was like, oh, well, colonialism did this. Well, I'm like, what about the thousand years of Jihad and conquest and colonization, that doesn't matter. You're talking about the one century where actually Muslims liked it because they got so many benefits. That's the nightmare. So my point is there's a lot of people who've been really misled with history. You know, a lot of people we know of the concept of fake news, which I think is very dangerous because. But as I always say, fake news is ephemeral. It creates its mischief and then dissipates. I find fake history much more problematic and very dangerous because it creates overarching narratives and paradigms and people see reality through it. And if it's fake, your everything's going to be just completely distorted in your mind.

[A]

What are the beats of fake history that are relevant, Relevant to this conversation?

[B]

I'll give you, and I'll give you a very popular one which is if I speak about slavery, that means white people enslaving blacks. Is that real? Yeah, that happened, of course. Is it bad? Yes. But if you just think it's, that's it, that's all that ever happened, well then white people are evil. And people say that, I saw this, she's a professor Bridget Cooper at Rutgers University. Black woman, she literally says that, you know, and the way she talks is as if nobody's enslaved anyone except white people. Okay? So that is a fake history. If you now understand that, yeah, whites did that, but blacks enslaved whites, blacks enslaved blacks, whites enslaved whites, okay? And it's been a non stop thing that has happened. Historic Muslims enslaved everyone. Okay? And if anything, well guess what, who did abolish slavery? It was whites. That at least they did that, okay, around the world. So if you, so my point, you see, but if you, if you jettison all that out and oh, it's only the white man who did slavery that's going to poison your mind. And then you will believe in the woke theories, kind of like, oh yeah, because you know, everyone's problem, every black person's problem in the Americas because of people are still racist. You know, you're going to believe that because if you believe that fake history. But if you understand in context, which is everyone did it, but at least we can say one group abolished it. So it kind of changes how you may see the actual reality that's unfolding before us.

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[B]

Right. Like so, so, for example, the fake histories about Islam, those are so deep. One. I'll give you one. I always quote this because it's very. It's been etched into my head. There's a former professor, he wasn't mine, but I used to see him at Georgetown University. I used to attend there in the Middle Eastern programs. And his name is John Esposito. And in the early 2000s, he was like the Dawn. I mean, he was the editor of the Oxford History of Islam. And the FBI and CIA and all the intelligence agencies would talk to him about terrorism. And he has a line in one of his books. The book is called Islam the Straight Path. And the line goes as follow Five centuries of peaceful coexistence elapsed between Christians and Muslims until an imperial papal power play led to a series of holy wars which have left centuries of enduring mistrust, which means from the dawn of Islam until the first crusade in 1095, peaceful coexistence until the first crusade. And now Muslims are upset. Okay, as I've alluded, those four or five centuries actually is when Muslims savagely conquered three quarters of the Christian world. All right? In one year alone, in 1009, okay, this is the same. The same century of the First Crusade. Later, one caliph, according to Muslim sources, destroyed 30,000 churches.

[A]

Yo.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, so imagine this kind of fake history where you're telling people, oh, Muslims were great from the beginning and they were so nice to Christians until those evil crusaders decided to do that. That's a primary premier example of fake history. And if I believe that, well, of course I'm going to believe Muslims are still being abused by those stupid white Christian colonialist people, etc. Etc. But if I understand the truth, actually it was Muslims who were. It's known the First Crusade is A belated rebuttal to centuries of Islamic conquest. And in fact, in the decades before the First Crusade, the atrocities had reached a new high of attacks on Christians and pilgrims and destroying churches.

[A]

So you're saying that the Crusades, at least the first one, was a direct response to aggression on behalf of Muslims.

[B]

That's what the. That's what the sources make very clear.

[A]

And this was just part of the. We have to wage jihad, and so we're going to.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was always bad. Of course, under Christians had always been going to the Holy Land, even after the Islamic conquest. And depending on who was the leader, you know, at least they would expect extra money in taxes. But if they were radicals or whatever, there'd always be uprisings. And even when pilgrims would get there, they'd get killed. Raped. Yeah.

[A]

Were they going just to see the Holy Land and pay tribute, like, find the rock that Jesus. Yeah, it all came out from behind.

[B]

Pilgrimage was a huge thing in Europe,

[A]

but they weren't trying to take it over.

[B]

No, no, no. Just pilgrimage to go worship at, you know, the holy sites.

[A]

Okay. And so they basically, now every time they go, there's some sort of ultra violent agro.

[B]

The Turks, the Seljuk Turks specifically, had risen right around this time, and they were engaged in all sor. Just. I mean, horrific. I describe it in one of my chapters in sort of Scimitar, where they. I mean, in one city, they burned a thousand. It was known as a church of. It was a city of 1,001 churches. They burned them all to the ground. It was an Armenian city. They would pull out the entrails of people. I mean, rape women on the altars, including nuns. All right, so that sort of thing. That's. But how many people know this? If you hear the First Crusade. No, the First Crusade was a colonial racist venture. No, it was actually trying to redress all these wrongs and put an end to them. Okay, so this is what I mean. This context is important. And if you don't have that, you have fake history, which will feed into all of these ideas, which is, oh, white man, bad Muslim, innocent. But if you have at least some balance, you have the truth. Okay, well, at least. I mean, it could still be whatever it is today, but at least you have a solid, accurate foundation to understand it through.

[A]

Through. Okay, so through all that history, and you've mentioned Spain a little bit, but it's probably worth walking us through that timeline. I think you said it went on for like seven or 800 years. Walk us through that timeline. I want people to understand the pattern that you see emerging as you look at this, because I think it will speak directly to what you see now and how people should interpret that. So as we take Muslim behavior over, you know, hundreds of years, a thousand years, I think you document up to 1400 years in certainly in sword and scimitar, what pattern emerges?

[B]

The Spanish example is a good one because it's really a microcosm of everything we're talking about. You can see Spain was almost like, you know, Europe, but it was a perfect little. It's a peninsula. It's not little. Islam invades in the year 7/11 that you're given and essentially conquers it, except for a very small group of rebels who get holed up in these Asturian mountains in the northwestern quadrant of the peninsula. And the Muslim sources say, like, yeah, whatever, they're like 10 people living on. Living in Iraq. Who cares? Slowly, these and. And the other rest of the Christians, and there were Jews there as well, had become subjugated by the Muslims at this point. Okay, so now they're. They're paying the tribute. Dimbies. Exactly. Slowly and slowly, decade after decade, century after century, the Christians in the north starts coming down. And this is the Reconquista, the main

[A]

traditional, you know, and this literally takes hundreds of years.

[B]

Well, okay, so the conquest is 7 11, and it doesn't end until 1492. Whoa. Yeah. Okay, so this is. This is how it starts. And you can look at the map and, you know, the Christians slowly, slowly keep coming. And then there's vicissitudes. Muslims win more land and Christians win more land, and it keeps going on and on. It's. By and large, it's almost over by the mid, like, 1250s. But you have Granada in the very southern tip, and that's still a Muslim kingdom until 1492. And, you know, okay, so when you look at that, it's funny to me because again, here we. Here we go with the fake histories. A lot of historians have tried to say, oh, actually this was a great time of cooperation. And, you know, you had Muslims, Jews and Christians living in peace and in harmony. And here's the thing, okay? We just said this is centuries. If you look at it. They're basically talking about maybe a decade in those centuries where all it was is grand architecture. And in that context, more progressive scientifically than the rest of Dark Age Europe. Okay? But even in that, you find inconvenient hiccups. So there's, for example, something called the Martyrs of Cordoba. And this is around, I want to say 850. This would fall within the timeline of the golden age that supposedly, you know, the Christians and Jews and Muslims have. But the martyrs of Cordoba were basically Christians who had been dhimmis. And they had reached the point where they just got tired of, even though they're paying their tribute and they can be Christians of being pressured because that was always an ongoing thing. It's an ongoing thing today, you know, where you're, you know, you're mocked for being a Christian, for example. And just. And they got tired of it that they started just speaking up real loud and blaspheming essentially by saying, your prophet is a false prophet, Muhammad, there's only one God, Jesus Christ, etc. And they were all something, they're known as the martyrs of Kotoba. There's something like 50. They were all beheaded, boiled in oil, crucified, skinned alive, including women. Okay, so that's the golden age. All right. Just to give you an idea, outside of that was just pure carnage. Non stop. Christians, Muslims fighting back in the Christian mentality where it's reconquista, it's. We're reconquering our land because Muslims did conquer. It was a Christian territory when the Muslims invaded. And that goes on and on and on. And then you have the, the pivotal moment, which I think I touched on, is about Takeya. So this is actually a perfect example of the Takeya. Now you have Spain. The Christians have conquered all of Spain or the Iberian Peninsula. This of course includes Portugal. A lot of Portuguese people get upset when I just keep saying Spain. So you know, Spain and Portugal and now you have. Islam is confined to Granada. It's something like half a million people. Initially, the Spaniards, okay, after they conquered them in 1492, they said, you can stay Muslim, you can practice Sharia, do your thing. This is the part people don't hear. And what happened is all of a sudden a lot of those Muslims were trying to subvert Spain back. They were helping the Barbary Muslim pirates raid. They were trying to ally with the Ottoman Turks, fellow Muslims again. And before long the Christians just finally understood, okay, your religion is inherently not gonna, is incompatible. So they said, sorry, you have two choices now. You either become a Christian or you leave, go back to North Africa whence they had come in the 8th century. And now, now here's. Now the, the common day rendering is this. First of all, no one's going to tell you that they were given freedom originally and that they were trying to subvert Spain back to Islam and they're going to tell you just randomly, Christians, because they're crazy, evil, bigoted Catholics, decided to, they can't live in peace. And they said, muslims, you have to become Christians. Okay, no, it was done because in the context of the times, it was understood that first of all, there's no atheism in this period. You're going to be one religion or another. And if you're a Muslim, and we already know at this point, they've translated, they understand the Quran, they're saying what I'm saying about these doctrines. And so, okay, either you become like us, in which case we assume you're going to stop hating and trying to kill us, okay, at least you're the further, you know, your second generations and third, or you leave. So all of a sudden they all converted. Half a million, okay. And then later on we find out that they found they got fetwas, okay, Fat was an Islamic decree from a jurist, a high ranked scholar, and several of them. And they said, now you can do Takeyah. And takeya is okay, you can convert, you can become Christians, you can have the Eucharist, you can go to mass, you can do the whole nine yards. But as long as in your heart you're still a Muslim and you're still trying to help Islam, okay, it's fine. And they all converted, okay. And now why I find it amusing because if you look at the records as I have and I talk about a little bit in sword and scimitar, the Christians just couldn't believe it. And there's one who's, who's like these people. It was for generations, they acted like model Christians, better than us, the native Spaniards and Portuguese. And then we found they would go to church and all that and then we'd find they were at home, as I told you, preaching jihad and teaching their children how they have to hate and etc. And that's what gave rise to the Inquisition, at least in Spain, because you had all this huge Mass and a lot of the Muslims were saying, no, no, I'm a good Christian. And some were, and some were being busted for, you know, being doing Takeya. That's what led to the Inquisition. I'm not necessarily justifying it, I'm just giving you an idea because the, the Ponti mython kind of version, which unfortunately too many people believe is, oh no, they're just crazy evil Christians and Catholics and they just don't believe in tolerance and religious freedom. And they decided we're going to torture Everyone. Until they become Christian. No, as you can see, there's a deeper context. There's a deeper story to it. And then in the end, the Spaniard just said, you know what? We can't figure it out. This is too hard. Everyone has to go. And so they were all expelled. And now the irony is, you find out today, Spain just brought like a million migrants from Africa who just walked in and they just gave them free citizenship. Okay? So, you know, it's interesting because. And a lot of those migrants, you find that they engage in the same sorts of behavior they have that at least that tribalistic. They don't have to be sophisticated in theologically understood or learned in Islam, but that old tribalism is just there. It's human, okay? And they go there and they pray on whatever, and they destroy and they exploit the Somalis, you know, here in Minnesota, that mentality, okay, so you know someone. So the continuum continues with Islam, but the west has had a massive break, and it just doesn't learn from its history, and it's just repeating it and going out of its way, which is why all these countries, which is why the west today, Europe, is so much more powerful than Islam. Military, technologically, economically. I mean, it could destroy it. If the west was governed by Genghis Khan, he could destroy Islam, right?

[A]

Yeah, physically, I would say, given what he's known for.

[B]

And yet at no time. And Europe, for the longest time before the colonial era was the weak horse. Islam was this behemoth surrounding it. Okay? That's how it was understood. So it's ironic that those Europeans fought tooth and nail to preserve their way of life. And today you have this sort of decadent west, which is all powerful, and it's just. It's. It's doing everything to kill itself and bring in people who don't share its values, don't share its worldview, are not assimilating openly. So. And it's so. So I guess that's the long version to answer your, you know, what's the warning?

[A]

Okay, so we have this pattern that we see repeating through history. We just had Spain let in. They originally claimed it was 500,000.

[B]

That was like 5.3 million or something. Wild.

[A]

Wild number.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so.

[B]

And the guy says. So we can. He. I don't. I forget the, you know, the phraseology, but he was basically saying, so you guys can become citizens and outvote the. Right. Yeah, like something to the effect that I want you guys to get the voting so you can vote for us and we can keep doing this and shut down the right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you'll get to one of my can of worms. So we'll set that aside for a second. We're hitting pause for a moment, but there's plenty more ahead so don't go anywhere. Every SIM card has a permanent id. It's called an imsi. Your carrier assigns it once and it never changes. That ID follows you everywhere. Your carrier tracks it, advertisers track it, bad actors track it, VPNs can't hide it, and encrypted apps can't change it. CAPE solves this with identifier rotation. Your SIM ID automatically changes every 24 hours. Same phone number, new identity every single day, making you untraceable. But Cape doesn't stop there. Your phone number itself is protected by a 24 word cryptographic phrase. Your voicemail is encrypted, your payment data is tokenized, and Kape's enhanced signaling protection blocks suspicious network connections. Before attacks Happen, head to Cape Co Impact and use code IMPACT to get 33% off your first six months with Cape. That's C A P E co Impact and be sure to use Code impact to save 33%. Let's talk about one thing your business cannot afford to get wrong. It's not your product. It's not even your marketing. It's not payroll. It's your decisions. Every wrong call starts the same way. Someone did not have the numbers. They looked at incomplete data from different systems and went with their gut. And it cost them. NetSuite by Oracle fixes all of this. It's the number one AI Cloud ERP trusted by over 43,000 businesses. It brings your financials, inventory, commerce, HR and CRM all into one source of truth. That connected data makes your AI smarter, so it doesn't guess. It knows if your revenues are at least in the seven figures. Get NetSuite's free business guide demystifying [e-mail] theory. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com theory. Again, that's netsuite.com theory. Let's talk about the retirement mistake even smart people are making. Most people think playing it safe means keeping their money in stable, familiar assets. But inflation does not care about your comfort zone. Part of the answer is going to be crypto exposure, but done right. Blocktrust Ira uses Animus AI named Bitcoin magazine's number one crypto technology platform. For a human. Volatility is emotional stress. For an AI, it's just an opportunity. Their AI outperformed self managed crypto accounts by over 23% in 2025. Blocktrust IRA runs a zero conflict model. They don't make money unless you make money. Your assets are held in regulated insured cold storage. Visit tom crypto ira.com right now and sign up again. That's tom crypto ira.com this is a paid advertisement. Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action. What's going to be the consequence of this? How does this play out across Europe? I'm watching what's happening in the uk, which because my wife is British, I'm very, very close to that problem. Obviously what Spain is doing is pretty wild. You look at Brussels and it's crazy. And a lot of people will say it's not really that big of a number. I'm not sure what people are talking about, but as you sort of run the scenario to bring up Peter Boghossian again, he is saying that he believes that Europe is already dead. That from a demographic position, the certainty of their demise, just from what part of the population they make up in their own country is so already done that he, with a straight face, believes that they should negotiate basically a surrender. And I don't think I'm misrepresenting his position.

[B]

No, you're not. He said that to me numerous times.

[A]

Yes. So because he's saying, like, we'll get abused down the road as they take over the country, so we might as well negotiate it now so we can basically limit the abuse that we'll face in the future, it's pretty wild.

[B]

Like I always hope he's like playing devil's advocate.

[A]

He does not seem to be, though. It would be very interesting to get him on the show to have a similar walkthrough of his belief system that leads him to conclusion. The thing that made the cameraman walk off was he said in reference, I believe, to uk, but certainly Western Europe. Western Europe. He said over and over and over in Western Europe, if they can't find another solution, they have to start shooting people that come over the border illegally. He's very clear about that. This is about illegal immigration in Western Europe. I believe I've accurately represented his statements, but that's pretty wild. So he obviously has a set of beliefs about what the second and third order consequences of this are going to be as they play out over time. You chuckled here when I mentioned his belief. You seemed almost incredulous in a very kind way, but you seemed very shocked by what he was saying. So what's your take? Like what, what happens to Spain? What happens to the UK as this plays out?

[B]

I think one of the fundamental problems is Western people specifically are myopic, and they just see the now, and that's why they look at the now, and it's like, ah, what's a big deal? 5%, 10% Muslims. We'll. We'll figure it out later. And the thing is, it's like a slippery slope because it keeps growing and growing and, and the more it grows, for some reason, it seems like, you know, their freedoms, the Brits, for example, starts eroding because they can't see and speak about what's happening. And so my point is, I don't think it's too late. And a lot of people think I do, I don't, but I think it's a lot harder than you think. It's not. This isn't where, oh, I'm going to vote for this guy, and now we're going to get it done. I think that's the problem. A lot of people pin all their hopes on one politician thinking, you know, this, this guy's going to do a miracle. And the problem is the whole culture needs to change. It's a paradigm shift, okay? If you want to actually make a change, it's not just, you can't. Here's the thing, you can't be who you are today and just single out Islam and say bye. The reason Islam is becoming a problem, even though it's inherently weak more than ever, and you're inherently strong is, is because of so many of the sort of philosophies that Western, the Western epistemology has absorbed, okay? And that's what's allowing this. So I believe it's going to take an actual serious paradigm shift. It's not just we're going to create it. One, one or two policies which will take care of it. I drew, for example, an analogy. You know, Rupert Lowe and what he's saying and, you know, what are you saying? How can I go against it? I mean, this is a man who cares about his country, his people, and he sees what's going on. Okay, makes sense. A lot of people like that. But he, and he's saying things like, you know, not only are we going to stop migration, we're going to reverse it, and if you don't like our way, our life, you're going to leave. And a lot of people I've heard tell me things like, yeah, you know, you know, we've, we've had it with Islam. We want them all out okay, now here's the thing. Stopping migration itself seems so hard for a lot of these countries.

[A]

Just culturally, there's not the will.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, look at here, the United States, okay. It's, you know, you can say what you want to say, but as I understand it, ICE and I haven't followed it, so maybe, you know, but my point is, you're an illegal alien. You don't belong here. And it's supposedly, as I understand it, they're going after criminal elements. What is. I mean, that if you can't get behind that, you think you're going to get. You think the uk, which is even more liberal in America, is going to get behind kicking Muslims out of their country who've been there for years? So that's what I'm trying to say. It's not as easy as, you know, people can talk the talk, but actually implementing these policies, and even if you stopped all the immigration, these Muslim countries, I've already told you, for example, Pew poll or a Pew report said that by 2050, Germany is about set to be 20% Muslim. And that's if migration stops, which it hasn't. Okay. So I think that's what I mean by the myopia where again, Muslims are lockstep keeping with their, the continuum of their history, which sometimes you have massive takeovers, sometimes it's slow. And I think it's very important to understand something which might help you and your audience, which is when I talk about Muslims the way I do, I think you might. It sounds like, man, you're really demonizing them. And they're these evil people and it's, you know, that's, that's not right. I mean, people are people. And the thing is, they don't see themselves as evil. And I'm not even saying they're evil. My point is they always see themselves as the good guy, even when they're doing the jihad and killing and lying. Because Islam is right. Islam is good. You people are pathetic infidels. Look at the way you live. It's what God wants and we are helping bring it in any which way we can. You know, the ends justify the means. In their mind, they're good, so they're not demoralized in any way, shape or form.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, you were talking about sort of, you know, it's their time. Yeah. That's how they see it. And they're doing what they're doing. Whereas the west is so utterly demoralized and, you know, so, so defeatist, so just going out of its Way, essentially to make itself extinct by going out of its way. I mean, what kind of society you look at, the UK for example, allows Muslims to come in waving ISIS flags. But then if you're an actual Brit waving, I don't know, a St. George flag, you get. Crazy, isn't it? Think of. Think about. That's surreal to me. And that's the. See, that's.

[A]

Sorry, I didn't even let you finish the sentence. You get in trouble for waving the British flag. That's wild.

[B]

That is, to me, the problem. It's not the Muslims. I say this often, by the way. The Muslims aren't the issue, because you know what? They're not coming with swords and spears like they used to, and Europeans had to fight them. You people always say, oh, UK is being invaded. No, they're not being invaded. You're being. They're being invited. You're inviting them. This is your problem. You're doing this to yourselves. And I think people need to understand that. It's a much. It's a much easier message and more comforting to just, oh, Muslims are evil and I hate them and whine about it. And it's more. It's more, I think, you know, realistic to just be kind of like, whatever you think about Islam, it's you guys who are doing this. You are the. You can look at a country like Hungary or Poland, they don't put up with this. They put up little fences and they have no more problems, okay? And then Hungary and Poland are not a superpower compared to France and England, okay? Or the uk So I think a lot of people need to understand that. It's. It's. It is a problem, and it is getting worse. And a lot of it has to do with you. Not you per se, but you as a society, as a culture. The Muslims, like you're pointing out, yeah, it's my time. I'm doing. I. I believe in it. I'm bringing good stuff, you know, And. And they're propelled by that. But it's kind of like if you don't have anything, if you have no cultural or any religion or heritage that you want to, that you feel is behind your civilization, then, yeah, you'll. You'll just be like an open vacuum and something else is going to fill it.

[A]

Okay? So if we're in a position where you've got. The UK is inviting people in, we've got this historical pattern that repeats. We're worried about that historical pattern because it tends to be. When we're weak, we're Essentially tolerant. When we get strong, we then start forcing our religion on other people. I get that. And let's say that it played out that way. If nothing was done about it, why instead of a Rupert Lowe and trying to reverse immigration and sending everybody back, why aren't we really looking at the community, the. The Muslim community and saying, you guys need an enlightenment Now, I know Sam Harris had really, I think, tried to go down that road. That always resonated with me. Why can't Islam, or maybe you think it can, but can Islam have an enlightenment and truly reform itself?

[B]

Well, I, I mean, I. The way I'm hearing it is sort of ironic because you or Sam Harris, Muslims don't care what you think. And for you to come tell them you need an enlightenment, you're the enemy, you're the de facto. Anyway, I already told you, you're the infidel, so am I. So forget about us telling them anything about enlightenment. Now, if it organically can develop from Muslims themselves, that's where it would have to come, of course. So basically what I think is, first of all, when it comes to the word reform, and here again we go, this, I think what's going on is Western projection. You know, they think of the Reformation, which of course is seen as a good thing because most Westerners are Protestants. Is they? Okay, so what was the Reformation? Mechanically, what happened, technically, what happened is, you can say is it goes around the idea of sola scriptura, right? Which is we're done with clergy and hierarchies in the church and, you know, potpourri, as it was called, and we're just gonna go with the Bible.

[A]

Okay, so it's me having a direct relationship.

[B]

Yeah, it's. And, and that. And then when that happened. Okay, well, especially as you were saying, and you look at the New Testament, which for Christians, of course, is more important. This is the actual meaning, right? You find a lot of, you know, positive, passive, non hate filled, etc. Etc. Okay, now the interesting thing is, and I've said this before, something of something akin to that Reformation is actually already happening in the Islamic world, but it's leading to almost a more radicalization because the texts are so different. So I'll explain Islam historically, most Muslims, like most Europeans, were illiterate. No one had owned the Quran. It was just the leaders who maybe could read it, or actually mostly they would recite it. They memorized it by route. And so, you know, you had the. I told you, the scholars, they were a major role of articulating Islam. Okay. Now, when you move to the modern, or like, let's say now and for last century, the Quran, Muslims are much more literate. The Quran is now available. It's being translated in many languages. It's on the Internet. Even more telling is the. The entire corpus of the hadith, which is massive. The hadith is the recordings of what Muhammad said and which is part of Islamic law, depending.

[A]

So we've got the writing and then we've got the speaking.

[B]

It's all there at everyone's fingertip. Okay, so. So it's almost like a, you know, the Protestant thing in that, okay, the Bible is now accessible, it's been translated, but it's leading to more radicalization. Because when you. If you are just your regular Muslim and you look at some of these texts and it says things like Muhammad saying, kill the apostate, kill the blasphemer, wage war on the Christian, subjugate them, that is prone to leading to more radicalization. Whereas historically, yeah, that was part of the corpus, but the scholars put it in a way. I mean, the hostility was there and the war on the infidel was part of it, but it was a little more systematized and a little more pragmatic. Okay. Whereas now you have just, and this is so, to me, the rise of radical Muslims, as they're called. They are the Muslim Protestants in the sense that they just don't listen to any particular cleric. They read and they access the text themselves. And as it happens. So how can we. How can you have the same methodology, which is people going sola scriptura, but to their text? And yet one's religion comes out good and one comes out bad. And this is hard for the relativistic mindset to understand, but it's because the text are very different. The bottom line is, forget about reformation in Islam. Now, enlightenment, that's possible, but what an enlightenment. To me, what an enlightenment means is just kind of like, all right, we've lost faith in this religion, but we're just going to keep it as an outer trapping because it's part of our culture. And is that possible? Maybe, sure. I mean, yeah, if Muslims collectively can do that, I suppose. But I don't see that happening right now or at any time. And again, one of the reasons is because Muslims are pragmatic. And when their religion is perceived as helping empower them, they like it. When it was seen during the colonial era as some backward relic there I was watching a video, for example, of Gamal Abdul Nasser, the Egyptian president in the 50s and, you know, suit and tie like everyone else. And he makes. In one video, he. It's in Arabic.

[A]

He.

[B]

He mocks the hijab, you know, the. What women wear. And everyone laughs about it. You go to Egypt now, everywhere, every woman is in the hijab. So why was he and the Egyptians like that in the 50s and all throughout the early 20th century and in the late 19th, 19th century, it was because they were emulating the European colonial colonizers who were seen as the strong horse. And, hey, we want to be like that. We want to have what they have. We want to. When I told you about Autoturk, he's the paradigmatic example of Turkey. You know, he went from. Turkey went from, like I was telling you, really, this, the jihadist scourge of Europe, to being the first Muslim country to get rid of it all and actually do everything possible to be Westernized. Why? Because it still had the same impetus of wanting to be powerful. But Islam had failed at this point. So now let's. Let's do what they're doing. But in as much as the west lost its confidence and now all it has is just technology and material, so too has it pushed Muslims back, rightfully so, or at least logically so, to their own heritage.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, that makes a lot of sense now, spinning that off into something really tangible. Have you ever thought about just the raw difference in outcomes that you're going to get if you tell people to emulate Jesus and if you tell them to emulate Muhammad, who, if I remember correctly, Muhammad had a sword, a. What is it? A sitar.

[B]

Scimitar.

[A]

Scimitar. That was named, like, splitter of vertebrae or something.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

When I was reading that, I was like, yo, like that. So Jesus has, like, all this soft vibes, like, I'm here to be kind to prostitutes and tip over the moneymakers and help the poor people and wash feet and forgive the guy that betrayed me. And the other guy has a battle sword called the splitter of vertebrae. And it's like, damn, I get why some people might be like, well, hold on. That feels pretty dope. I've been looked down on. I'm low class. Whatever. I want to rock with the guy that's got the splitter of vertebrae.

[B]

And this is actually why. This is a whole deep topic. This is actually part of this book. But the Jesus, the way you characterize him, which is the way most Americans and Christians even characterize it, I take some umbrage with that characterization. Not that you're wrong to Say that of course Jesus is not Muhammad, but there is, I think, if you will. I don't know if I want a militant side, even to Christianity. Not necessarily physical, not war, but assertive, muscular Christianity, which I'm a, I'm a firm believer and a promoter of. That's what this book was about, the two swords of Christ, which is the military orders. If you look at these guys and how they understood Christianity, it will blow your mind. And. But they use the same Bible and they use the same verses. It's called two swords because, for example, Jesus said in one of the verses in Luke, he maybe you know it, where he says, if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. And his disciples say, lord, look, here are two swords. They found two swords. He said, that's enough. So to your modern day Christian, who would go by the description you gave of Christ, that means nothing. Okay, so today, if you ask an interpreter, what does that mean? Well, it means nothing. He's just being parabolic or whatever. To the early Christians, especially medieval Christians, what he was saying is there are two. There's two enemies in this world. One, one is a spiritual enemy and you need a spiritual sword, which modern day Christians, I think would agree. The other one was a secular material enemy and you need a secular sword, okay, which would be, for example, the military arm of a society. And that's how actually it was understood. So my point is, and I'm gonna, I wanna tie this to Islam because that's what we're talking about and what you just said. But my point is, in many ways, Christianity has been emasculated and effeminate from what it was. It wasn't always like this. People want to think that, you know, there's a reason crusaders could have existed and could have been so ferocious and violent and yet be more pious. Believe it or not, they were dying for their faith than people today. And so now let's, let's go back to what you're saying where, you know, I can see why a person would find the Muhammad vertebrae sword kind of feeling as opposed to, I call it doormat Christianity. This idea that, you know, Christianity is just your doormat, come wipe your feet on me and I'm, I'll do nothing. And a lot of Western men are either not, are losing their Christianity, and even some are converting to Islam because they find that sort of militant, muscular, masculine side appealing. So I do. So on the one hand, what I'm trying to say is there is that problem going on today in Western nations in how Christianity is understood. And I'm not trying to say Christianity has jihad and no, but there is just war. Okay? That was something that was always long, long time ago articulated. No one had problems with it. But today it seems to be. A lot of modern Christians and just Western people in general don't believe that you can't be in any way, shape or form violence ever. That was not at all the way they understood it. And in as much as Westerners and Christians feel that way, it's only natural a lot of men are just dropping out of Christianity. And it's even more natural that a lot of them, you know, the Andrew Tate phenomena, where, you know, they're gravitating towards Islam because it's seen as a patriarchal kind of masculine religion. So it's kind of unfortunate because Christianity had. That's what chivalry was. Chivalry was. Yeah, masculinity is there, but we're going to tame it and use it for righteous causes. But without it, you know, things go willy nilly and you can end up with a really toxic kind of masculinity.

[A]

Now, do you think that Western culture at large needs to draw a line, find that more masculine version of itself, to have a new Reformation where we begin reinterpreting some of the verses in a way that, that say, basically, be strong, be able to wield the sword, but keep it sheathed so that we can draw a line and say, listen, this is our culture and leave it alone.

[B]

But I wouldn't call it reinterpreting. I would say it would be reclaiming. I mean, that is the historic past of Christianity. So it's not new. It's. It's just been forgotten and jettisoned, demonized perhaps. But yeah, it's good because it's, it's used solely for defense, you know, Chris. No, Christian, I'm not saying Christianity should go on the offense, but yeah, you defend your world, your civilization, your people, your family, okay? And, you know, this goes back to illegals jumping over, you know, fences and whatever. Christianity, there's a reason most Christian nations up until now in the United States will agree capital punishment. So I think the idea of the problem is just too many people have just have come to believe that Christianity begins and ends with literally being a doormat. And that actually feeds into these problems that we're talking about. Even if you're not Christian, the bottom line is if you're not Christian, if you're an atheist, if you're born and you kind of hinted at this. If you're born and raised in this Western mulu, you're going to be, you are a Christian despite yourself. Forget about the theology, forget about the veneer and saying I believe in Jesus and that sort of thing. You are made and forged by centuries of Christianity. And to me, that's, that's the more solid thing that we're really talking about. And when people don't realize that and they say no, no, like secular Western Europe is, is, has nothing to do with Christianity. Everything, all the, all the things that atheists and seculars prize is inconceivable without Christianity. Why, why did it come from Europe? Humanism, you know, the, the everything we talk about, tolerance and mercy that didn't come from Confucius. China, didn't come from Islam, didn't come from Hinduism. Okay? There's a reason it happened in Europe and it's not again, the fake history is like it rose, it rose in Europe in defiance or against Christianity. No, it actually, Christianity was the seeds because if it was, it was a matter of defiance. Well, it could have risen in the Middle east against defiance, against Islam. It could have risen anywhere. So I think people need to understand that I personally am not very much interested in going and telling people what to believe the theologically, but I do believe Christianity as a civilizational cultural force is something not to be ignored and, and just discarded because without you knowing is really the bedrock of everything we all like and we all love and we want to preserve. Right.

[A]

All the stuff that we've talked about today. How much of your interpretation of what is happening, what should happen in the future, is predicated on your belief that Christianity is the word of God and ought to be the way that somebody lives.

[B]

I'll tell you this, that a lot of people think I'm like a hardcore Christian. I'm really not. And it's probably because I write these books which deal with Christianity. I see myself more as a civilizational Christian, not the spiritual Christian. This doesn't mean I don't have a spiritual life. I'm just saying that to me is more important. But what I'll tell you is this, that with me, if anything brought me back to religion, it's my objective study of history and what I'm seeing around us today. They are actually constantly validating the truths of Christianity. It's not vice versa. I think most people approach it differently. They read the Bible, they memorize verses or theological doctrines and they project it. And what's happening, I'm the opposite. I looked at it Secularly, okay? And I accepted it like that. But then the more I look at it, the more it keeps converging. And coming back to these issues about Christianity, I'll tell you. I'll give you. I'll leave you with a final anecdote which is going to amuse you, okay? So in my field, again, to show you how some of these things that seem laughable, you know, these Christian teachings or ideas that are superstitious, and now they come back to haunt us. So in the seventh century, we talked about the Arab conquest of Christian lands. And amongst historians today until now, it's seen as one of the great mysteries of history. Because at the time, the Arabs, 7th century, they are just an impoverished. They're described even in their own sources as half naked, no weapons, just no sophistication whatsoever. And then you have the Roman Empire, which we call the Byzantine Empire, which is still very powerful. And you have this, which is a superpower in the seventh century. And then you have the Persians also, which is another superpower. And so the mystery is, how did these Bedouins all of a sudden overrun both of them and conquer all the land that I told you? So not only Persia, but all of you know, Christian Syria, Greater Syria and all of North Africa and all of Spain, that was always a mystery until now. And there's all kinds of theories that historians give, but they're just conjectural. Now, what's funny to me, and I know your audiences, I don't know if they're gonna like. They're not gonna like this, but. But, okay, they'll get a kick out of it maybe. What's funny to me is that if you look at what the Christians said of the time, how did they rationalize us? You know, they said. They said God was punishing us for our sins. Okay, Now, I've read that in college, I wrote my thesis about, you know, the Islamic conquest. And, well, like your average historian, I was like, okay, whatever. Obviously that's not the case. Okay. That's not why it really happened. And the one key text that every Christian would quote, and it was written about 690, okay, so this is the height of the Islamic conquest. Almost all of North Africa is now conquered in the Middle east. And it's on the verge of going in Spain. It's known as the Apocalypse. It was written in Syriac. And the whole thing is, yeah, God is punishing us because of sexual immorality because men are dressing like women, women are dressing like men, believe it or not. Wild. No. Yeah. But Watch, it gets more interesting. And this is why, okay, so that's what it said. And, and that text kept circulating. And in 1683, a millennium later, when, when Muslims were besieging Vienna, they were reproducing and publishing and disseminating it. So people understand why this is happening because we've sinned again. And sexually immorally. Now, why I bring this up and I find it interesting is look at the conversation we're having about Islam in Europe. Islam is weaker than it's ever. Okay, so if the Muslims, the, the big mystery of the seventh century is the Muslims are a lot weaker and they beat the Romans, let's say they were, you know, 10 times weaker at the time today, as we've just pointed out, militarily, economically, technologically, Europe's what, a thousand times stronger than the Muslim world. Okay. And yet isn't it interesting that Muslims are such a thorn, such a problem taking over Europe and whatnot. And at the same time, there's people pointing out that, you know, if, if it was because of cross dressing and sexual immorality, I think there's a lot more of that today. So I just. So this is an example of me telling you. I read that I didn't. That didn't convince me, but now I'm watching reality unfold in front of me and like, yeah, things are starting to make more sense in a way.

[A]

Do you think that.

[B]

So my. So to answer your original question, it's not that my Christianity colors the way. It's actually what I'm seeing kind of makes me. Validates Christianity for me.

[A]

Interesting. Let me see if I understand that. So there's two ways to interpret that beat. If you look at it as. This is a thing that repeats throughout history, that there are these times where we let go of conservatism, perhaps is the right way to say it around sexual mores, that there's like gender bending. And so people are. Men are very comfortable being effeminate, women are very comfortable being masculine. And that sort of sweeps whether it went all the way to where we're at now, where, you know, it's a trans phenomenon up in the air. But so way number one would be that when a culture starts to do that, God actually punishes you. Way number two is that that happens at a time where your, your culture becomes too pluripotent. What I mean by that is when you take a stem cell and you have a like skin cell, let's say, and you want to make it pluripotent so it could Become anything again, you, you run the risk of de differentiating to the point where the, the integrity of the cell begins to fall apart. So you have to be careful not to turn a cell like that into a cancer cell that just divides infinitely. Aging is supposedly when you, the cells in your body are de differentiating. So an eye cell is also sort of a heart cell, also sort of a skin cell. And so you lose the, like the distinctions in a society that we have to sort of force on people. And your society gets to a point, I believe, because you've had prosperity for so long, you haven't been challenged.

[B]

The

[A]

we need to be chased by a lion. Like we need a difficulty, we need a threat that forces us to have structure to say yes to this, no to that. And when you have prosperity for too long, you begin to lose that success. Seems like a natural law of order. And so you just sort of let anything go. And you're not forcing people to be disciplined, to work hard, to stay focused, reward meritocracy, et cetera, et cetera. And so as almost as a physics response to prolonged prosperity, we find ourselves in this dedifferentiated state. And then whoever is hyper differentiated, believes in their culture, has conviction to say, nope, you guys are stupid, we're going to come in and take over that. That's why those two things may happen at the same time. Are you saying it's God just doesn't like it, so I'm going to send an army to take you down, or do you think that this is like what I was saying, we're just sort of is a thing that corresponds with a problem within society?

[B]

I think it could be both. Okay. And I only brought the God thing up because you asked me directly, like how my faith fits into this. And I was trying to give you an example that it's not so much that I approach it thinking about theology, it's rather I didn't think about theology, but then by looking at it, it actually makes me wonder. So I actually didn't even finish my idea. What I was trying to say is, so, you know, okay, so in the 7th century, the Arabs did what they did and they said, Christians said it was sexual immorality and the Muslims or Arabs were 10 times weaker than Rome. So how did that happen? That's why it's a mystery for us. I believe, you know, a century from now, two centuries from now, three centuries from now, the world, the posterity will look and let's say Muslims do overrun Europe and they're going to Be like, how did this, that is going to be much greater mystery that how did these guys who were so weak, their countries, migrants coming cap in hand, poor, and Europe was so powerful. So that will be one of those amazing mysteries, okay, where people will again be trying to come up with conjectures. So now put that aside. I'm just saying, I'm just trying to show you that it's not that my religion guides me, it's if anything, it's history is making me believe more in religion. But now what you said, of course that's also just as plausible. Okay, which is, you don't have to give it a theological explanation, okay? It could be just, okay, I mean, what's that saying, you know, like strong men create strong societies and then, you know, strong societies create weak men and weak men create weak societies, etc. So it's a cycle that definitely makes sense. And you know, and, and whoever has the eye of the tiger, if it's the Muslims, they're going to want it more. So of course, I'm not discounting that either. Ultimately I was just trying to answer your question about me and my religious lens to show you that if anything, it's studying history and current events that actually makes me look back and go, well, yeah, that kind of makes sense now, not vice versa, where I'm forcibly applying theology, which people do, by the way, and I don't care for that.

[A]

Okay, for a moderate Muslim who's watched this whole thing, they're with us still and they have parsed all this, but they feel directly attacked by your philosophies. What would you want to say to them?

[B]

If this is a truly moderate Muslim, they shouldn't feel attacked. And I think they should agree with me because they should know again, I've not attacked any particular Muslim by saying you are this. I've talked about a body of beliefs of a religion, Islam, any so called moderate Muslim. If they were to say, oh no, you're wrong about the history or you're wrong about Muhammad saying kill the apostate. That's your books. Most of this is from Muslim books that I'm telling you, including the history. So I, if they're really genuinely moderate, I think they would agree with me and say, yeah, you're right, but I'm moderate for whatever reason. I've rationalized it this way, if they actually attack me then, then that's the Takeo Muslim. That's the one who's, you know, playing that little game and saying, no, no, Islam is peace. And this guy is a liar. But. And I've met a lot of, you know, a lot of Muslims who, you know, if you want to call them moderate, what they are is they're secular Muslims or nominal Muslims, cultural Muslims. And they don't want to break away because that's their heritage. And there's a sense of loyalty and kinship to their people. That's it. But they're not necessarily reading the Quran or believing in any of that sort of thing. And those people, I would imagine if they heard me, if they know anything about Islam, they would agree quietly, secretly, to themselves. So I don't think that should draw any ire from them towards me.

[A]

I mean, this has been incredible. Where can people follow along with you?

[B]

Thanks. Well, you know, my website, I have so my books, you can get them. They're on my website or on Amazon. I suggest if anyone's interested in this particular topic, Sword and Scimitar, which this is, this is the third of a trilogy. The first one is Sword and Scimitar. And they like that, they can pursue them. But that one gives you the, really the general introduction to the overall history that we've. That I barely touched on between Islam and the West. And then I also have a substack which people can just look up with my name. And my YouTube channel is out there as well under my name channel. I think it's just my name, but it's called the Holy War channel because I talk about crusades and jihads.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

As somebody who's watched a lot of your content, I highly recommend people check it out.

[B]

I appreciate that.

[A]

All right, boys and girls, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.

[B]

Peace.

[A]

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