← Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory
Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory
How To Be MISERABLE For The Rest Of Your Life... (Why 2% Succeed & 98% DON'T) | Tom Bilyeu
01:36:03
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- [00:00]
Commercial Narrator
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Tom Bilyeu
As you get older, you are less plastic, so it actually does become harder to learn new things. You begin to find the things that work for you. And so you think, oh, well, I know how to do this. And then you encounter that moment where it stops working. And so now it's like, oh, wait a second.
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Interviewer
So Tom, we're gonna bring it to the light later, but I'll start at the deep dark ends. What are the top five behaviors and mental traps people do to live a really miserable life?
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Tom Bilyeu
What do people do? So ego is going to be number one. So the whole idea, if you want to live the good life, is to recognize that you are a deeply flawed individual that is holding yourself back, that your life is a reflection entirely of your choices and not your circumstances. And if you're not happy with that, that means that you're doing something wrong. So I'll define right and wrong as it's right when it moves you towards your goal, and it's wr when it moves you away. So if you're not where you want to be, you are by definition doing something wrong. But most people can't work through the loop that I call the physics of progress because their ego stops them at a critical part. So the physics of progress go like this. You have a guess as to how you're going to get to your goal. So first of all, it assumes you know what your goal is. But for now, let's assume that you do know your goal. So you've got to guess. This is what I would need to do in order to get to my goal. You're going to do that thing and it's going to fail. Now we all have to struggle with the, oh, I tried the thing and it failed. The problem is most people put up their ego defenses, find a way to believe that it was somebody else's fault. It was the economy, it was where I was born, it was that my parents didn't have money. It's that the system is rigged, whatever. Because those are probably valid reasons why it's going to be harder for that person than the next person they stop. But let's go back to my definition of right and wrong. Right is that which moves you towards your goals. Wrong is that which moves you away. So people then are blind to the fact that they're saying that their real goal is to get where they're going, make a million dollars, have a successful business, be a teacher, whatever. But the reality is their real goal is to feel good about themselves. Most people never have the self awareness to avoid that conflict. And then even if they have the self awareness that they're in a conflict, they don't realize that they could shift their self esteem around instead of being right. So what I tried was right. And the only reason it didn't work is because the world is stacked against me. Might actually be true. But how are you going to move forward? Because there is some better thing that's going to move you forward. Most people are never going to see that because they stop at making it somebody else's fault. The next thing you have to do is you have to be optimistic. You have to believe what I call the only belief that matters. That if I failed at something, it's because I'm not good enough yet, but I can get good. And so many people believe, because it really feels this way. You believe that your talent and intelligence are fixed traits. And the reason you believe that is it gets harder as you get older to get those huge gains that you get. Like when you're a little kid and you can't walk, it's like this whole binary zero to one moment of like, whoa, I couldn't. And now I can. This is incredible. And then you get to first grade and it's like, can't do math. Now I can do math. Wow, that's pretty cool. Can't do multiplication tables. Now I can. You start to get to algebra and it's like, oh God, I don't know, this is not as easy as I hoped it would be. You start having failures, you get rejected by girls. Like, you start getting all these things that stack up where the path to stand up, practice walking. It doesn't work as well. You're also, as you get older, you are less plastic. So it actually does become harder to learn new things. Also, you begin to find the things that work for you. And so you think, oh, well, I know how to do this, I've done it really well. And then you encounter that moment where it stops working. And so now it's like, oh, wait a second, it was working. So I had my big zero to one moment, then it stopped working. And people confuse that with hitting the edge of their abilities, not realizing you've only hit the edge of your current skillset. So I remind myself in business all the time, my current skill set has already taken me as far as it's going to take me. And so if I want to go farther, I have to get better. But if you don't believe that you can get better, then you won't put the energy and effort into getting better. But because it becomes incrementally more difficult to get better, you begin to confuse it with, I've reached the edge of my capabilities. Then if your ego is built around I'm right, not that I can identify the right answer, I am right. So I've done all the things, I hit the edge of my current abilities and I have a belief that I don't know that I can get any better. And I have the ego defenses coming, saying it was somebody else's fault anyway. Ah, cool. Then I'm off the hook. I don't have to be confrontational of this reality that I've reached the edge of what I'm capable of. Which sucks. That feeling of like, I'll never be as good as somebody else, that feeling eats at us in a really gnarly way. So that's where you get clobbered to death with, ooh. I no longer am optimistic that I can get better because all my big gains, my early gains, those went away. And my subconscious hands me a ready made excuse for why this isn't my fault. And I take it and I exit. And that brings us to the third thing, repetition. You become what you repeat. So people that don't repeat things, they don't try over and over, they just give up really easily. They are destined for failure. If you don't have a massive amount of resilience, you are really in trouble. And most people don't have resilience. And so if I'm talking about the five things that you do that really like take you down a dark path, don't be resilient. Give up easily, because if it's true that you can get better, but the sort of early big wins begin to diminish and you're going to have to work harder and push harder and be more consistent, then it's like by giving up, you never get better. And so now you're reinforcing. Hey, not only was it somebody else's fault, you couldn't get better anyway, so why would it matter? Don't even try. And. And so everything that reinforces that don't even try is how people get themselves into a super dark place. Another thing that's really gonna hold people back is if you are comparing yourself to somebody else and you're letting that diminish your sense of self. So I would constantly. If I wanted to fail, I would constantly compare myself to other people and be like, I'm a total loser. And I have the proof because look at all these other people and they're doing way better than I am. They're ahead of me. I remember. Oh, God. I. Every filmmaker of my generation had a moment when they turned 24 when they realized that what, at least for my generation was considered arguably the greatest film of all time was Citizen Kane. Really is awesome, by the way. Even though it's black and white and it's all the shit for the TikTok generation, they're never going to go for it, but it's a really fantastic film. And Orson Welles made it when he was 24, and he made it when arguably the most powerful man in the world. So imagine somebody like Bill Gates coming after you and. Oh, God, even better. One of the guys that owns, like a media conglomerate, Jeff Bezos, owns the Washington Post. So the guy Rudolph Hearst owned what at the time was the media publication Citizen Kane is about that guy. So it would be like somebody making a movie about Jeff Bezos and that he's corrupt and lonely. And Jeff Bezos was like, oh, you think you're going to actually tell that story? Nah, I'm clamping down. I'm going to get your funding revoked, I'm going to make sure that nobody screens the film. All that. So this guy at 24 gets this movie made when everybody thinks, oh, this guy's literally going to kill him, have him killed, or he's going to stop his movie from being funded. Then not only does he get it made, but it becomes arguably the greatest film of all time. And so you hit this moment where you're like, orson Welles is just better than I'll ever be. Why am I even Trying, then back into not being resilient, then back into all the things you're trying just aren't working on and on and on. And then the last thing is, if I really wanted to mess somebody up, I mean, I really want to break their ability to go anywhere in life. I'm going to make sure that I mess up their body. I'm going to make sure that they aren't getting the sleep they need. I'm going to make sure that they eat a ton of sugar. I'm going to make sure that they're overweight. I'm going to make sure that they don't exercise. And that is going to destroy their cognition in a thousand ways. They're going to be in a level of pain they don't even realize they're in because they've never not had a stomach ache when they eat. They've never not eaten right before they go to bed and have their sleep disrupted because they've got food just sitting in their digestive tract. They don't even know. Brain fog, all that stuff. And so those are the five things I would do if I really. The funny thing, even as I'm saying I can't make it about me. I've got to, like, if I were going to mess up somebody else, those are the things that I would do.
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Interviewer
Wow. But gotta avoid. Like the plague.
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Tom Bilyeu
Like the plague.
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Interviewer
But so the. The fourth one, like, it just feels so, like, instrumental. Like, this guy, 24, like, he did it. And I'm not 24, but I'm 24. But let's say I'm like 26, and I'm still not there yet.
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Tom Bilyeu
Let's say you're 40. Say you're 46. Say you're 50. So this is the trap, is by comparing yourself to other people, it's going to diminish your sense of self. It pulls you out of that optimistic mode. And the reality is, I may never make a film as good as Citizen Kane. I may never be as good as Walt Disney. That's my. The real person I'm chasing. I may never accomplish what Elon Musk has accomplished. And so I do the thought exercise, and the words I want to introduce to people are, and now what? So you're never going to be whoever it is that you look up to and you admire. You're never going to be as good as them. And now what? Do you give up? Do you cry all day? Do you accept a lesser life? Or do you go ham? And so the thing that I want people to Understand, you can get 100 times better at whatever. Now, most people spend so much time lamenting that they'll never be as good as whatever person it is that they look up to and fantasize about and want to be, that they never 100x their own abilities. And so their life is far less than it could have been. So what I have found through experience, even though I still feel the sting of not being as good as the people that I admire, or having to face that Walt Disney had done way more than I've done by this point in his life, even if he didn't have as much money as I have, he certainly had built something far more that represented what he wanted to do far more than what I have done. Right? My whole life has been about finally getting to that moment, and I haven't. And maybe it forever recedes into the distance. But what I've learned through experience is the act of going ham is so intoxicating, is so fun, that it is the juice. But most people are broken emotionally by the comparison. And so to some extent, you just can't allow yourself to do it.
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Interviewer/Host
How do you unlearn the beliefs that got you here, that are now holding you back?
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Tom Bilyeu
So you have to let them atrophy. So if you want your negative beliefs to atrophy, then you have to really stop using them. So, number one, read the book Feeling Great by David D. Burns. It's all about cognitive behavioral therapy. But one of the core tenets of cognitive behavioral therapy is pattern interrupting. So you have cognitive distortions. You're repeating things to yourself that aren't true. I'll never be able to. I'm not as good as I could. Never. Right? Those are all cognitive distortions. You don't know that that's true. You won't know that that's true until you spend a lifetime trying and you're on your deathbed and you're like, well, I'm out of time. Now I really know. I really won't be able to do it. Or by then you will have accomplished so much if you really are that diligent and persistent. So you have to pattern interrupt. You have to break out of that thing that you repeat. Now, what I find fascinating is the reason that pattern interrupting is so important. The reason that the only way to begin to let those negative beliefs dissipate is by not using them is because neurons that fire together wire together. It's an evolutionary advantage. It's actually a really good thing. This is why you can pick something and get good at it. Because your brain is an energy hog. From an evolutionary perspective, we have this weird dueling competing desires that are baked into our brain. We one go hard, go out there, chase after it, get it right, grand ambition. But then you also have the desire to sit on the couch and eat potato chips. Because your brain is so hungry for calories, it eats up 25% of the calories that you intake into your body. Now, when you can just go to the grocery store and get a bag of potato chips, it's not a problem. But when you have to go out and face death every day to hunt, to gather all of that, you have to have evolutionary pressure to chill, right? So you go out, you get what you need, don't keep going. So you've got it now you need to calm down because your brain, just to keep everything going, is going to gobble through those calories. So I can't also have the body going ham all the time. What the brain does is go, all right, from a biological standpoint, I've got to make these thoughts as efficient as humanly possible so that we're not 50% or 75% of the caloric energy. So it does things to make them more efficient. And one of the things that it does is it myelinates the connection points. So when you do things, and I think people underestimate the complexity of a habit. So a habit isn't just seeing something, doing something, hearing something, feeling something, smelling. It's all of those things put together, right? So you've got the habit loop trigger. You've got then the desire to pursue the drip of dopamine that you know that you're gonna get. You've got the sights and sounds that might be all a part of that. All that stuff is wired. So it's this huge cluster of neuronal firing and it all gets this fatty tissue wrapped around it. So it's like this ball of activity. And so you get into these patterns of activity that are the easiest thing for you to think and feel. So if the easiest thing for you to think and feel is a negative thought that you repeat to yourself over and over and over and that your brain goes, oh, we do this a lot, we feel this way a lot, we think this thing a lot. Rad. Let me make it super easy. So now when you get back into I'm a loser, I'm not going to do that, I'll never accomplish that. Or just like a negative doom scroll on TikTok or whatever, that becomes the most efficient thing for your body to do, and you crave that feeling. You are pushed into the efficiency from an evolutionary standpoint. So you have to interrupt it. You have to stop the thought, stop the activity, whatever, and then begin to build something new, so you stop using the old one. And then you force a demand on the brain so that it's unwiring these things and making these new wiring connections and connecting that. And because tissues in the body, you never keep if they're not needed. So if you think about muscle, right, if you work out like a demon, you get a yoked physique, and then you stop working out, six months later, you're going to be way closer to where you started before you started lifting than the lift. And I would say probably a year, 18 months out. No one would ever know even if you had a massive amount of muscle, because your body's just like, muscle's expensive. Calorically, if I don't need it, I'm going to get rid of it. And so when you stop using a pattern in your brain, then the connections are gonna dissipate. It's not gonna be the first thing that occurs to you anymore. You're gonna be out of that habit loop. In fact, to push this to the extreme, during the Vietnam War, there was massive amounts of drug use. And people get addicted to opioids, heroin, all that stuff. Most of them just stopped when they came back. And the reason that they stopped when they came back was they just didn't have access to it. They didn't know who to talk to. Like, I'll tell you right now, I would have done psilocybin or whatever by now if I could reliably get it. But I don't have anybody that I know how to get it from. So I've tried like, a tiny bit here and there, but that's it. So it's when you don't have it in your environment, you don't think about it, you don't reach for it, you don't crave it. So you've got to do that, break apart. But then to make it easier, make sure that you're leaning into something new that's powerful, that you can repeat.
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Interviewer/Guest Questioner
I want to go back to capabilities and skillset and ask you how you would advise a person who has ventured off in different career paths. Paths they've tried so many things in their lifetime. They've excelled in all of them. But at the end of the day, they're the jack of all trades and the master of nothing. So I want to hear Your advice on that and a follow up question is, do you think that that's the way to go or do you think they should stop and just reassess and focus on one thing?
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Tom Bilyeu
What outcome do you want?
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Interviewer/Guest Questioner
Like, let's also say, because another question I had was, how does somebody go about finding their passion who's completely lost?
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Tom Bilyeu
Okay, so those are two wildly different questions.
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Interviewer/Guest Questioner
Yeah.
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Tom Bilyeu
So how you find your passion will set aside. Now we'll just say you don't find it. It is an architectural build, not an archaeological dig. But going back to the first part, so you have to know what you want to accomplish. So for most people, when they fantasize about their life, they fantasize about becoming the goat of something. Like, I'm going to be the greatest singer of all time. If you want that. Just think about LeBron James. If LeBron James were simultaneously trying to be the greatest basketball player of all time, the best singer of all time, the best accountant of all time, you'd be like, hey, LeBron, I've got money on you this weekend. You better get your ass on the basketball court. Stop fucking around with accounting. Right. So we know when it's somebody else. Exactly what they should be doing if they want to be the greatest of all time. You need a maniacal focus. You need to be lasered in on one thing. And you do it to the abstraction of everything else. And you do it obsessively to the point where everything else in your life ideally is falling apart. Right. It's just. And I say ideally, as a person with money on, you know, LeBron James, it's like, ah, I don't want you to think about it. I want you to be like Tom Brady. Like, from what I hear. And I don't know that this is true, but given that he just got divorced, I'm going to guess that it is that he would make his family sleep somewhere else when he had like a big game coming up. He did not want distractions. He wanted to be totally laser focused, literally to the point where everything else in his life is falling apart. But you want to talk goats, that guy is going to go down in history. Now, having said all of that, I find it very hard in my own life to just say, oh, I'm going to do this one thing. This channel would be way bigger if I just interviewed one kind of guest over and over and over, and everybody knew exactly what they were going to get. And I didn't try to branch out and cover more things that I find fascinating. This channel would be a lot bigger if we didn't have the entertainment side, where we're trying to do comics and video games and all that stuff, Right. If I were just maniacally focused on having the best interview series, YouTube channel ever. I know that. But that's not the life that I want to live. That's why the first question is, what do you want? Because ultimately, my advice to people is to chase fulfillment. And fulfillment has to do with what do you love, Right? So you're going to have to discover that you're going to find that initial bump of like, ooh, this thing gives me more energy than it takes. But it's not like when I was a kid, I was like, oh, yo, I want to have a YouTube channel. I didn't even think, I want to build the next Disney. I created that over time. When I was at Quest, I was actually perfectly happy to do storytelling inside of a protein bar company, right? Because I just needed meaning and purpose. Now. I knew I wanted to storytell. I've known that since I was 12. But it wasn't like the central passion of my life to build the next Disney until I decided to make it that. And so when I was Jesus, I probably would have been 37, 38 the first time I said, oh, I'm going to build the next Disney. So it's, you know, that's a lot of my life where I had another mission that I would have stated, another passion that I would have said. Now, storytelling was always one of my passions, but I actually would have told you that it was filmmaking. So I would have said, oh, I want to be a director. That was my earliest thing, and I invested a lot into that, which is how it went from being an interest to being a passion. So I want people to understand, you don't look inwards and find a passion. You look inwards and find something that gives you more energy than it takes. Then you invest in that to see if it's really going to be a fascination. If the more you do it, the more you push yourself into learning about it. If the more you're like, whoa, this is really cool. I love this. That's a fascination. Now, if you want to turn it into a passion, you're going to go through the process of gaining mastery. For something to be a passion, I think you have to get feedback from the world. Okay. I happen to know that you're a singer and an amazing one at that. And I know human psychology enough to know when you played me your song for the first time, And I freaked out. That that feeds into your sense of like, wow, I worked really hard to get good at something and this person's having a really big emotional reaction. And that's part of how I want to contribute to the world. I want to sing in a way that moves people. You saw that, it moved me. Now you're in that loop that I call the passion loop. So for it to be passion, you need to work really hard to get good at something that matters to other people. And you need both the shout, meaning when you sing it makes you feel some kind of way, and the echo where I hear what you've worked so hard at and I'm like, oh my God. And now you're in this loop where you're like, I want to get even better because I want more people to react like that. Now you're in a passion loop. Now where people get into trouble is going back to the first question. So now you're in this passion loop. You should be fine with, hey, I sing. It makes people feel awesome. We're good, right? No, because you're comparing yourself to other people. You have this huge goal that you want to attain and so now you've got something outside. You try to achieve it, you get knocked back. It didn't work the way that you thought it was going to work. What does that say about me? Possibly you make it other people's fault or you just give up and go, wow, I'm really not capable. Which then makes you feel terrible about yourself, which then makes you not love the singing as much as you did before. And you get into this super self destructive loop. So let me tell you what monks have figured out that other people don't get that that desire to want more is a double edged sword. A monk is somebody who realizes, oh, this thing that makes me feel alive and pushes me to be better, also cuts me down and makes me dislike myself and makes me lose passion for the thing that I loved right before I started comparing myself. And so the choice that they choose is to opt out of the rat race. And so they're like, I'm just going to go over here and I'm going to let go of desire because I realize that desire is the root of all suffering. Now I take a totally different approach and I go, well, I know I'm going to suffer. I know the world's going to kick me in the face. I know that I'm not going to be. I want to be the greatest at everything I ever think of. I know that just isn't going to be true. So I had to come to peace with, okay, you're never going to be as good at all the things that you want to be good at. And so now how do you play the game? And so for me, I like to be broader maybe than somebody who's gonna, like, really be the goat at something. But I just want to enjoy my life. I want to enjoy the shout and the echo. And so for me, too, if I just wanted to enjoy the echo, I would go in the YouTube comments, I would figure out what they want me to do, and I would just do that. If I want to enjoy both the shout and the echo, I find this balance of, here's a range of things that I like. Cause trust me, here's how many things I want to spend my life on. Here's how many things I do spend my life on. Here's what I would have to do if I wanted to be the goat. And I just realized that for me, being that myopically focused on something doesn't make me feel the way that I want to feel. And so I understand that that means that I probably won't achieve. I know I won't achieve as much if I were to broaden it, but I only want to broaden it so much so that I can still achieve, quite frankly, on a massive global scale that will echo through human history.
- [24:24]
Interviewer/Host
Don't you think? You will actually be the goat of your niche by focusing on multiple skills that synergize rather than just focusing on the one thing to be the best at it.
- [24:34]
Tom Bilyeu
All right? So you have to hold two competing ideas in your head. So here's the truth about what it's like to be inside my own mind. I imagine myself in a Dragon Ball Z Super Saiyan moment with flames all around me screaming, like, morphing into something huge and unstoppable. But at the same time, I understand that the reality is that this is probably going to be a struggle and I may never become the goat. But I don't accept that internally. Internally, I'm like, okay, maybe it doesn't happen, but what if you play all out like it is going to happen? What if you act like it is an inevitability, that if you keep pushing as hard as you can and moving forward, that you will eventually get there. But I know so well that if I judge, if I only reward myself for becoming the goat, then my life hinges on one final moment. And I know two things. One, it's probably it is wiser, not as probably it is wiser to enjoy the climb than to reach the summit. And then two, because I know that I may never get there. I don't want to constantly have my thing in the future because the future will always let you down. Now the question is why? This goes back to evolution. The reason the future always lets you down is because we have hunger. This is why we equate the desire for food, the desire for sexual, the desire for success. We say, hungry, I'm hungry for whatever, because that's what it feels like. And hunger can only be momentarily satiated. It can't be permanently because you would die, right? So if all you had was the motivation to go get one meal and eat the biggest meal, the biggest feast that you possibly can, if that's all evolution got you to do, and then you ate it, you were full. And like, I'm full forever, you would die. So once you understand this in evolutionary context of there is a sub program running in your brain to make sure that you're just going to keep going and going, going and going. So I'm very careful about how I approach my life to make sure that I acknowledge the truth of the human condition, which is that I'm having a biological experience, which is that I will always have hunger no matter how much I eat. I mean, I'll momentarily be sated, but it won't last. And so I'm super careful to enjoy the climb because I know the struggle is guaranteed, but the success is not. And I know better than to make my whole life hinge on the future. Because even when I get to the future, even if I was the goat and I stand towering above all the accomplishments of Walt Disney, I'll still be like, yo, what's next? It's an inevitability. Now Audible gives you audiobooks, podcasts, Audible originals, and more all in one place. Whether you want to dive into a series, listen to a popular bestseller, or check out the latest episode of a great new podcast, Audible has you covered. Enjoy genres you love, like motivation, mysteries and sci fi. Follow names you know in comedy or true crime podcasts, or discover the Audible exclusion exclusive. Everyone's talking about the Sandman. The new Audible is your playlist for life. Try it for 30 days on us. Visit audible.com 9 out of the 10 largest banks get it. They get advantagescore. The modern credit score is the leader
- [27:48]
Commercial Narrator
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- [27:51]
Tom Bilyeu
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- [27:57]
Interviewer/Guest Questioner
Do you think everybody's like that? Like or do you think there's ever gonna be a time when you, like what you said, you're like hovering over all of your accomplishments, like somebody would be capable of being, I'm good, like that's it. Do you think that's a you thing? Or like, do you think everybody always wants more?
- [28:13]
Tom Bilyeu
It is a hundred percent that every single person has drive, hunger. It is also true that that's a spectrum. It's just a personality trait. So we all have it to some degree. But the question is how much? Now I'm probably pretty close to pegged out where I'm willing to suffer to the point where other people worry about me because I just push myself and push myself and push myself. So not everybody's going to be like that. Also, I think there are people that have a different value system than I have. So take a monk. They like the idea of I want to disengage from the world. I realize the toxic nature of never ending pursuit, that there will never be a meal so satisfying that I don't want to eat again. So why do I allow myself? Let me transcend that. So for them, they would train themselves to let go of that, to not give into it. I feed into it. I have looked at both options before me, and one resonates with me at a conceptual level because it's not like, oh, I went and became a monk for 30 years and I'm like, oh, rad, now let me go. Like, really, like pour myself into building something and see which I prefer. But I flirted with them both enough to know, at least at the early stage, which one I find constantly energizing. And the one I find constantly energizing is building. And even when I fail, I'm still energized by it. And I'm very careful with my ego not to let it get tied up in that. But everybody's gonna make a different choice. But I think that people that don't face the reality of what they want, their life is gonna be very sad. And so what I'm always trying to do and what I'm trying to get people to understand is go after it. Want, like, want to be the best and really go after it. Like, I mean, give it your everything, but don't value yourself on whether you achieve it or not. So the thing that I value myself for, the thing that I reward and punish myself for is, did I show up and play to win? Not, did I win? Did I show up and play to win? And since I show up and play to win, almost Every day? Not every day. Every now and then I'm off my game. But I play to win, man. And I'm tracking myself from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. And if I'm like, yo, you played to win today. And by the way, I had a good time doing it, like, I love that shit, then I'm good. But as somebody who has succeeded and failed many times, I learned very early to reward myself for the pursuit and not for the accomplishment.
- [30:43]
Interviewer/Host
So you're extremely self aware, and I feel like that's something really hard to teach. But how would you go about helping someone become more self aware of what's right for them?
- [30:53]
Tom Bilyeu
Dude, I love this question. So the way to get more self aware has become an obsession for me because I'm trying to become more self aware in myself. So those moments where you break through and you're like, oh, wow, I didn't even realize that that was a part of my personality. That was, you know, this is water, right? It's so ubiquitous in my life. I don't even realize it as a choice or a way that I view the world. It was completely invisible to me. And then someone will say something and you finally go, whoa, I can see me now from your perspective. And I realize that is what self awareness is. You can finally see yourself the way other people see you. There is no more water. There is only the awareness that, oh, I'm constantly wet. So I've started thinking, okay, how is it that I do that? How do I. And look, I am blind still. And it horrifies me. Every time I have an awareness. I'm like, oh, my God, I got to this age and I never realized that about myself. It was a little unnerving, but I've become aware of so many different things that it comes back to tying a revelation to a bodily sensation. So what I try to do is realize what I am feeling at any one time and then be honest about why I am feeling it and being able to track that down. And so figuring out there's this idea that Jordan Peterson has of micro personalities, and he says that's the best way to understand yourself. So an alcoholic, when they're jonesing for a fix, just in the grips of the alcoholism, they become a different person. So they have a whole subset of their personality that's now in control, that might lie, cheat, lack integrity, push other people down, whatever, to get that alcohol. Like, one thing you learn if you're a lifeguard is they say if you go to rescue A drowning person, odds are they're going to try to drown you as well. Just because they're just trying to get air, man. They stopped being like, the loving, caring person. Because when you want that, like, breath of air that badly, like, you're just gonna do whatever it takes to make it happen, you have to be aware that these micro personalities take over. And so when you have a feeling, odds are that represents a micro personality that you've slipped into. And if you can recognize, oh, when I feel this, I bet I am a certain way. Now, to other people, that that almost doesn't feel like a spectrum of you. It's like, oh, here we go. They're in their annoyed phase. They're pissed off. And I know how they are when they're like that. They're scared and they act this way. They're depressed and they act that way, Right? So for them, it's like these discrete versions of you, these micro personalities. So what I began to realize was, oh, when I feel this way, I manifest this way. I have a microcosm of personality traits that cluster together that are hyper predictable to people outside of me. But because the emotion feels so justified to me, it's water. I don't even see it. It seems like this is the only way to react to this moment. There is no other way. Everybody in my position would react exactly like this. So it isn't a micro personality. It's just how one should act. And so it's not like you're even thinking about that. You're just like, stimulus response. Now what I've trained myself to do is go, I feel something. What do I feel? Whoa, I'm agitated. Why am I agitated? Well, they obviously did something wrong. No, no, no. What do I know, right? Because I have these rules. And so I walk down rule number one. If somebody's angry, I guarantee an insecurity has been triggered. Now, there's actually things at the edges. I'll leave that aside for now. So I recognize, ooh, I'm agitated. I know that that means an insecurity has been triggered. What insecurity has been triggered? But it was training myself through having these realizations of, like, oh, I get this flustered feeling. And now I want to argue for an idea that's mine. Oh, I'm feeling stupid. Okay. So that's what I do whenever I feel stupid. But it really was tracking back as I would, like, replay the day. Like, I don't like the way that feels. And in fact, that's where it started. I don't want to feel that way again. How do I avoid it? To avoid it, you have to figure out what caused it. As far as I can tell, that's other than getting feedback from other people. So empowering people to tell you, like, hey, why are you acting like that? It's not pleasant. I don't like the way you're talking to me, whatever. Or after the fact, hey, you came across really harsh. I. I didn't respect the way you handled that. It's like, oh, whoa. Like, it was invisible to me. I had no idea. Like, there was one time during company team meeting where I was like, hey, everybody's got to step up now. Because I love that kind of language. I like, yo, we got this. We can do it, but everybody's got to rise up. I was completely taken aback that somebody gave me a dot, which is feedback for people watching this. And they were like, yo, that was really hard to hear. And I was like, huh? And so, because for me, I love that shit war language. Like, we got to do this. We got to get better. I'm not saying, oh, you're a loser and you need to get better. I'm just like, this is a human condition. Our current skill set's already taken us as far as it's going to go. If we want to go somewhere in the future that's farther. We have to get better. But that gave me the like, oh, wow. I see how that part of my personality comes across to other people. Now, I may still use that tool, but at least I won't be blind to it. Now I have self awareness, literally aware of self from another person's perception, and I can act accordingly.
- [36:25]
Interviewer/Host
And then a last question on this is being able to see yourself from a different perspective, are the things that either trigger you or whatever caused by some sort of like, some experience in your childhood that, like, is a pattern that you exhibit which causes these emotions in other people.
- [36:46]
Tom Bilyeu
I think it's inevitable that you are shaped by everything that happens in your life and you formulate responses and you repeat those responses. They get hardwired in your brain. And so you act a very predictable way in a given set of circumstances. But I personally can't track back, oh, this is because of that thing that happened. For me, there's precious few things like that.
- [37:07]
Interviewer/Host
So it's more about the personality and how your personality is just you. But then if you see it from a different personality type, it'll seem that's how you'll understand more by itself what
- [37:19]
Tom Bilyeu
caused that or how I End up taking in the information about what I'm like to other people.
- [37:26]
Interviewer/Host
A little bit of both.
- [37:28]
Tom Bilyeu
So the way that we become who we are, you're 50% hardwired, your personality and you're 50% malleable. Your response to all the different things that happen to you and your ability to unwind some of that. So there are things about ourselves that we can unwind and we can be different. And people like, whoa. Like I will tell you in my marriage, Lisa and I are dramatically different people than we were at the beginning. And we will point out to each other, hey, that Barb in your personality actually don't like that. Some have been easier to change than others. And so it's like, wow, like there are some things, even though I'm aware of them, I can articulate it. I can even say I've slipped into that thing that you hate. I can't stop myself from doing it yet. So some of those things prove very difficult to unwind. So for instance, I constantly slide back into optimism. Like, no matter where things are going, like, I'm just. I find myself like, but we could ultimately. And then it's like, this is like, hey, we have to reground. We've got to really think about how this is going to happen. And so we'll butt heads over that. We're all slipped back into the dream, the big vision. And she just, she can't be there. It's stressing her out. She's like, I need to know how we're going to pull this off. And so not doing that is very hard. Now you can get better. You can train yourself. Okay, so that's part one. Nature and nurture, they collide. I think it was Lisa Feldman Barrett that said we have a nature that requires nurture. So they are so intertwined, it's almost pointless to try to tease out like what half is what just there's a process to run for change that is outside the scope of this answer. Every time that you get to something you want to change, run the process. If you do that diligently for three years and you're still having a hard time making a change, odds are you've hit close to bedrock of the 50% that's unchangeable. Okay, so the other part, how do I peg my sense of self awareness? This really comes down to there's only so many personality types, right? So let's ballpark it. Let's say there's 50ish types of people that you're going to meet of Course, you can boil it down to, like, the five types or whatever, but it feels more nuanced in reality. It's not like everybody you meet, you're like, oh, you're this, you're that, you're that. And there's only five. Like, people definitely feel like shades and blends of those big five traits. So let's just call it five sort of big 50 big buckets that you're going to encounter different people. It's like, okay, I'm beginning to understand how when I act that way, how that kind of person sees me. That's really useful. Now, as you begin to collect that data, you're going to drive yourself crazy constantly trying to be the way that that person is going to be able to respond to you. So there are things that I will take in and go, okay, that's really useful. You can never know too much about how you come across. But there's also, I need to live my life on how I feel as well. So if I'm going to go into battle, even though my battles are always business, if I'm going to go into battle, I'm going to call it battle, because that resonates with me. Now, if that doesn't resonate with other people, in some circumstances, I'm going to make sure that I speak in a way that is understood by more people. And other times I'm going to be like, I need to feel a certain way to perform the way that I want to perform. And I'm going to go in with all of my language and all of that. The key is to just be aware of it so that you grab a tool when it's useful. So, for instance, I try never to be out of control of my anger. I won't say that it doesn't happen, but damn, is it rare. So I was recently on a call with lawyers, and I realized anger is the only thing that's going to move this forward. And so I had to display very controlled, trust me, I wasn't a raging lunatic, but I had to display a very controlled anger to let them know, hey, this is what we're doing was bringing the opposing sides together. And so I had to make sure that the intensity of a given point was communicated through emotion. So I need to know, ah, cool. This feeling that I'm getting of being really annoyed, really frustrated, and wanting to punch through my computer, it's like, okay, some insecurity has been triggered. What insecurity? That I'm not going to be able to achieve. What do I want what I want to achieve in the business. That's going to stop me from achieving my goals. If I don't achieve my goals. As much as I know better than to build my self esteem around the accomplishment, I'm still highly invested in the accomplishment. So cool. I know why I'm feeling it. Am I going to display it? That becomes the question. Is it useful in this moment? So for instance, I was in a near rage. That entire call lasted two and a half hours. But how many minutes of that call would anybody on the call know that I Was that annoyed? 7. So it's like you have to have the awareness to turn it into a tool and then you have to have the control of your emotions to wield the tool appropriately.
- [42:05]
Interviewer
So in my life, I think one of the biggest thing that's stopping me is the this distraction. And I know you talked about distraction how like doing the easy things first or doing the things that's like just more comfortable first. So it feels like you don't have, don't get distracted. You're like a level 100 at like squashing distraction. What would your recommendation be for someone? Maybe level one where it's like I have this big goal and then there's. But then there's like scrolling on social or doing the easy task first. Like, what is that? Like that's huge chasm there. So how do you walk people through that chasm or to get to that level 100 of their life?
- [42:44]
Tom Bilyeu
So I'm unfortunately, I'm only a level 80 mage when it comes to distractions. So I do still suffer from some of that just like anybody else. But I have. So I think rules, values and desire are wildly underutilized. So I have rules in my life at certain times. I'm doing certain things. And since I block my time so religiously, I have very bright lines. When you have bright lines, you know, whether you're doing the thing you're supposed to or not, right. So if I pick up my phone and I start scrolling and the funny thing is I have there's a certain set of circumstances that when they're met, I will blindly reach for my phone, pull it out and start scrolling and I'll catch myself like reaching for my phone. I'm like, what are you doing? But it's this certain kind of anxiety where I've encountered a tough problem. I need to think through it. I don't have the answer that I can move on, but I'm not quite sure what hook to latch into to begin thinking through the thing. And so there's some release that I get from the distraction of soothing my mind. And so when I realized that I do that and that there's a predictable set of triggers, I was like, whoa, distraction is actually really powerful. So I was teaching in Impact Theory University, and I forget the question that was asked, but I was like, sometimes you just need to doom scroll cats. And because you will reach a point where your brain is like really tied up in a knot about something and you have to let it go, you have to release. And sometimes you just need the input of something. And this is why TikTok is so powerful. It's like all about retention. That retention is really distraction. And so it's probably worth. I've never done this before, but it's probably worth defining what distraction really is. From an evolutionary standpoint, it is total acquisition of your attention because you want your attention to be on something else. You don't realize that the distraction is, hey, something just moved in the bushes. And so your brain needs a mechanism by which it goes, you should be paying attention to that thing. Now. Your brain is very good at utilizing mechanisms for multiple things. And so, like, testosterone can actually make you hyperviolent or hyper loving. It's super weird. It all depends on the context. They've done crazy studies on this where I was like, there's no way that's going to be correlated to testosterone. And it is. So it's literally one way and then the exact opposite. Super bizarre. So the same thing, I'm guessing. I've not looked at any studies on this, but I'm guessing the same mechanism is happening with distraction. So it is both the yo, you need to pay entire attention to this. And you're so gripped on one thing, you need to use that ability of the brain to yank your focus over to something else to shift gears. Because imagine from an evolutionary perspective, if you got stuck on one thought, like, think about in your relationships, do they love me? Do they not love me? Imagine you could never shift out of that thought. You get eaten, right? So there's a part of your brain called the basal ganglia. It's known as the gearbox of the brain. So when people get obsessive, like obsessive compulsive disorder, they can't shift out. They've got this thought, it's intrusive, and it just won't go away. So my guess is that distraction is actually the brain's way of shifting your gears. So when you are distracted, it's actually your brain grabbing your entire attention and saying, look at this. And that's what TikTok has mastered. And that's why it's so short, because it's going to give you these quick things that say, pay attention to this. All of the evolutionary cues make you want to look at that thing, and then to the next look at that thing, then to the next look at that thing. And so because A, I know that that's happening, I'm able to deal with it with the rules, the values, right? So I know the rules. I've got bright lines, I know the values. So I want to be the kind of person that's staying on task, that's bringing myself back to it. And then I'm going to practice so that I'm getting better and better and better all the time, which would be my advice for somebody who's level one that's trying to get to level two, three, four. I meditate every day. And so every day I do this thing called just breathe meditation, or that I call just breathe. I don't know if everybody calls it that or not, but I call just breathe meditation. I'm just trying to come back to the breath. And it's my way of elongating the period of time where I'm actually focused on the breath. Now it's actually not very long. I would guess 15, maybe 20 seconds on a good time. And then my mind starts to wander. And then I just remind my, oh, yeah, back to the breath, back to the breath. And so you get very good at, oh, I'm reaching for my phone. Back to the task, back to the task. And because I'm practicing it every day and then I have the rules to know if I've gotten off task, I have the value system that makes me want to stay on task. And then I'm practicing it to make sure that I'm actually getting better at being on task. All of those things become very useful in terms of, like, getting me back. And then I'm time blocking, so I know exactly what I should be doing at what point.
- [47:47]
Interviewer
I think you said, don't confuse your feeling with truth, though. Just because I'm feeling distracted, like, doesn't mean that it has to be true or, like, I need to follow that impulse. Right?
- [47:58]
Tom Bilyeu
That's really true. So if I'm right and a lot of distraction is I'm feeling a level of anxiety and my brain goes, don't worry, bro, I got you cats, bro. Cats. Like, hit that TikTok. If that is my brain technically trying to look out for me when I have that level. For me, it's a type of anxiety. It's a little flutter of anxiety that will make me crave a distraction so that I don't feel that anxiety. So I move on to the thing that's gonna capture my attention so completely that I forget that I was anxious. I realized, oh, wait, I can just face that anxiety. I don't have to run from it. And that's where it gets to value system. Oh, I need to be able to sit in the anxiety. And this is something. This is something I find fascinating about the difference between men and women. When I heard this, I was like, yo, anything that you're judging whether it's true or not, ask yourself, does it give you. Does it improve your ability to predict the outcome of your actions and behaviors and other people's actions and behaviors? If it does, odds are that it's true. So when I heard that that estrogen makes it possible to sit in negative emotion doesn't mean that the emotions aren't more distressing. It just means you're not distressed about how distressing the emotions are. I was like, oh, my God. I can finally understand why women are like, I just want you to listen. And I'm like, I don't want to just sit here and listen. I want to solve this problem. I do not like the way this makes me feel. And so I was like, oh, my God. Because honestly, when my wife is really upset about something, she seems crazy to me. I'm like, what do you. You just want me to listen? This is so uncomfortable. How are you not crawling? I'm crawling out of my skin for you, so how are you not crawling out of your skin? So it was so unnerving. My whole life, I was like, okay, I don't have to run from this. I can just sit in it. But I'm like, what is happening? Why does she want to sit in this? So anyway, fascinating insight about men and women, but you really do. Once I realized that, like, oh, I could just get better at sitting in this emotion, I don't have to run from this emotion, then you begin to get stronger. You become more capable of facing things. Then if you have a value system that says, hey, Tom, don't be weak, that feeling of, like, you want to run and hide, stop, man up, face it, sit in it, do not allow yourself. And then when I do it, I'm like, bro, this is why you are you. This is why you've accomplished what you've accomplished. Because in this moment, everybody else runs in this moment, everybody else breaks in this moment, everybody else becomes so insecure that they go chase distraction. But you don't. You sit here. Like, even when I go to the dentist and it hurts, I open my mouth wider and I'm like, get in there. I don't flinch. I don't try to pull back. I'm like, yeah, baby. Like, get that drill in there. Like, go on, scrape it. Get down to the bone. Even though it hurts. And my every impulse is to pull away, if I'm dealing with something and it makes me anxious, I won't. Blade blading is where you turn sideways to something. When somebody does that to you, they're either intimidated by you, they're stressed, whatever. I will face that thing head on, literally and figuratively. If something is terrifying me, I'm like, I'm in this. I'm not running from this. I'm dealing with this. When I've got a hard thing that I don't want to do, which is almost always contracts, I'm like, here we go. We're going to do these contracts. I'm going to do this contract at three in the morning when everybody else, they wake up. Actually, they're sleeping. Who are we kidding? They're still asleep. I'm up, I'm looking at a contract, and I am emotionally rewarding myself to the ends of the earth for doing that.
- [51:38]
Interviewer
That's so cool. Like, so fascinating. Because, like, I. So the ironic thing is I'm only distracted when I'm trying to accomplish something meaningful and hard, but it's like, challenging. I'm never distracted when I'm doing something easy and fun.
- [51:53]
Tom Bilyeu
That's why I think I'm right about what distraction really is. It's your brain trying to soothe you. It's grabbing a hold of all your attention and saying, ah, don't worry about that. Put all your attention on this thing here and now you can feel better. And I'll be honest, there are times where I have been so stressed that the only thing that's going to allow me to decompress is doom scrolling. And it's awesome. Like, I am grateful that doom scrolling exists because I don't do things that aren't on my agenda. But sometimes my agenda is I need to allow myself to relax. Because there are times where even meditation is like, bro, I will get more out of this 20 minutes of meditation if I take five minutes to doom scroll to, like, forget what, to shift gears, right? So I'm obsessively thinking about this thing. Doom scroll. Some cats for five minutes. Ooh, cool. Now I've been distracted away from that thought. Now I can sink into a meditation. Now, that level of stress doesn't happen often, but when it does, I know what tool to reach for. But this goes back to self awareness. You have to distrust yourself, constantly be asking, I should not have this reaction. I shouldn't allow myself to be overwhelmed. You know me. I don't do overwhelm, but I don't do overwhelm because I have pattern interrupts. Doom scrolling cats. I limit it to a small amount of time, I follow it with meditation. And then I've got the value system of being hardcore, facing my challenges, so on and so forth. But it really takes that gestalt. And this is the part about helping people that I find really frustrating. It's all of those things. It is this incredibly complicated nest of rules. Time blocking, value system, rewarding yourself, punishing yourself, on and on and on.
- [53:39]
Interviewer/Guest Questioner
Is there a way to make those distractions, like knowing like I'm aware of them, I'm aware that I'm easily distracted. Is there a way to make it a healthy distraction to make it used for your benefit, time block it.
- [53:52]
Tom Bilyeu
So if you want to take something like distraction and make it healthy, you need to have parameters. So you're going to time block. You're going to have it be a known tool. So you're not going to, like I catch myself doing sometimes, blindly reach for your phone. If you find yourself picking up your phone, you've got to be like, why am I doing this? Does this fit into my rules? Did I say, hey, I'm now going to look at cats for five minutes, ten minutes, an hour, whatever. But like that is the amount of time that I'm going to do that. I'm going to confine it to that. And then it's like, hey, if you want to spend 10 hours a day looking at cats, I'm not judging. Like if, if your life is rad and you're stoked spending 10 hours a day looking at cats, just don't trick yourself into thinking, oh, I want to go, you know, build a huge charity and help millions of people and doom scroll cats for 10 hours. Like those two things are mutually incompatible. So it's only the unintentional use of that, the unrestrained use of that. So once it becomes intentional, you're using it as a tool for a specific reason that you can articulate to yourself and it's time blocked. You're good.
- [55:01]
Interviewer/Host
So for those people who do, maybe they aren't aware or they understand but have so much dopamine and just like habitual of just going to TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, just scrolling for days to pass the time to do whatever. How do you go about how like changing that behavior if you're already so entrenched in it?
- [55:22]
Tom Bilyeu
I come down to one thing, George. Like you're young, so I really want you to hear me. Your life is a confusing mess right now and that will manifest as negative emotion. It's all going to pass. I've glimpsed your future. It all works out. It's amazing. Your life becomes wonderful because as you get older, you're going to gain control of your emotions. As you gain control of your emotions, you're going to gain control of your time. As you gain control of your time, you're going to acquire skills. As you acquire skills, you're going to be able to to do things that other people can't do. Like that really is the loop. And so as people get older, the reason that they tend to be happier and more self assured is they realize the rules of the game, that you can just really get better at this stuff and you can get good. And so I want people to hear that. But my thing is like, dude, you've really got to be obsessed with what you want to accomplish. And so if I could get you to understand, bro, all your dreams, maybe the scale will be off. Maybe you want to be the greatest and you become 1142, but at a 7.4 billion, that's really pretty cool. And so that's going to be the ride of your life. But you have to get obsessed. And the only reason that obsession is fun is because you actually know you're going to make progress. It's when you're obsessed and things aren't going well and you don't realize it's just a matter of time. And so like right now, dude, I am really emotionally worried for people that don't understand. The economy is going to turn back around. Wars end, like they're devastating. I don't wish it on anybody. But this too shall pass. It's like the great Buddhist phrase of all time, this too shall pass. If you knew that, yeah, the next three years are going to suck, but after that it's going to be dope, man. And there's going to be a stretch of seven years that are nothing but awesomeness. But then you're going to go through an 18 month period, one of your loved ones is going to pass away and that's going to Be brutal. But then you're going to have a stretch of six years. It's going to be awesome. Then you're going to have four years of just total suck. But through it all, you're going to be getting better and better at managing your emotions. So through it all, you know, all is going to be well. That's the joy, man. And so the thing I'm always trying to get people to understand, you'll never get what you want out of life. You're never going to accomplish the things that you want unless you are obsessed. Obsession will hurt and it will be unhealthy unless you realize that you can get better. And if you value yourself for already being good, right? Better, faster, stronger. Life will be a misery no matter what. And so far, better to focus on. Did I leave it all out on the field today? Right. So value yourself for how hard you went after something, not for what you accomplished. And then let yourself get obsessed with something because you'll get better over time.
- [58:05]
Interviewer/Host
And then with that obsession, what if it's an obsession with something that's not productive or unhealthy? Like video games, for example.
- [58:13]
Tom Bilyeu
Who said that's not productive? And who said it's unhealthy? So there's only that which moves me towards my goals and that which moves me away from my goals. Now, I'll make one caveat. Your goals should be honorable. I'll define honorable. An honorable goal is something that uplifts you and other people. That's about as simple as I can make it. So if you have a goal that uplifts you and other people, then why not go just absolutely bonkers to make it come true? If you want to be a professional gamer, then that's going to be playing a lot of video games. And I actually, I never would have believed this is true. But I enjoy watching other people play video games. It's fun. And so if that's the way that you want to contribute, that for people that want to watch you play, they can. Amazing. So now it's uplifting. You and other people, you'll be able to get into the passion loop so that you're both the shout and the echo. The shout being you playing the echo being people enjoying watching you play. Or maybe you're like playing video games so you can help build video games. Right? So there's many ways that you can do something like that. So I just want people to have an honorable goal and then ask themselves of everything you do. Did this move you towards your goal? Yes. Or no. If yes, keep doing it. If no, stop doing it, and that's it. And that literally is the easiest way to steer. But people let things complicate that because their parents tell them that they should be doing something that maybe they do or don't want to do. They think that they should be making a ton of money, and the thing that they love doesn't make them a lot of money. They want to be the best. And they trick themselves into thinking this is only fun. If I'm the greatest of all time, I will tell you right now. I play the video game Destiny 2. And I would laugh, I'm sure, if I saw the people that are spanking me. I mean, just embarrassing me. But I still love it. And so I try to remind myself that it's about getting better when I play, because I love to improve. And it's just video games are designed to squeeze the brain centers that evolution has given you for progression and goal acquisition and all that stuff. So it is a very fun microcosm. So I think people have to be very careful, casting aspersions, moral judgments on any goal that is uplifting. You and other people, do you think
- [60:22]
Interviewer/Guest Questioner
that there is a way to incorporate your passion, which could be video games, into purpose and also providing service and have that work for you? Or do you think you have to sacrifice one? Or like, you know, focus on. On a certain thing first? Like, does. Is there a perfect world where all three can exist?
- [60:40]
Tom Bilyeu
I think all three can exist. But greatness makes demands. So hiding in that meaning and purpose will all but break you because the world is constantly moving towards entropy. So from the moment of the Big bang, everything is moving towards chaos. Now, when you introduce humans, Jesus, you magnify the amount of chaos 10,000 fold. I mean, it's just absolutely insane. We ourselves are complicated, bumping into all people that are complicated as well. And so to achieve something great, you are really going to fail a lot. You are going to run into more obstacles than you can count. But the problem is that fulfillment requires that you work hard, partly because that for humans to become the most dominant predator the world has ever seen, we had to be very good at ordering the world. To order the world, you have to pour a tremendous amount of energy to stop the chaos and move it towards order, because that's the other part of that equation. To bring order to a system, you must pour energy into it, literal energy. And so that's the battle that all of us are fighting against. And so if we know that meaning and purpose is the only thing that will ever serve you long term. That is how you get to fulfillment and to do meaning and purpose. We know it's going to be brutally difficult. Then the very thing that makes life worth living is going to be very hard. It will bring you to your knees. I have literally been brought to my knees. But as you get back up, which I encourage everyone to do, because we're all going to get brought to our knees, but not everybody's going to get back up. So if you get brought to your knees, don't worry about that. Doesn't make you a loser, but it does mean that you're on your knees and it does mean you owe yourself getting back up. Now, when you get back up, that's going to make you feel some kind of way about yourself. You'll be like, yo, that didn't break me. That's incredible. So having meaning and purpose means by definition, you are going to be brought to your knees. At some point, you are going to fail to have the impact that you want to have in the world. And if you're ever going to have that and feel the way you want to feel, you have to get back up and keep going. Early birds always rise to the occasion for summer vacation planning because early gets you closer to the action. So don't be late. Book your next vacation early on VRBO and save over $120. Rise and shine. Average savings $141. Select homes only. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery, so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER GRANGER click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [63:28]
Interviewer
We've been talking a lot about, like, ambition and drive and getting your goals. I know another big part of your life is your relationship. So how does your relationship fit into your good life with your ambition and yeah, how does that all cocktail work in your life?
- [63:47]
Tom Bilyeu
The good life, how to live it? Step one, you're having a biological experience. What does that mean? You are an animal that's been shaped by evolution. The more you understand the organ of the brain, really, the whole body, the microbes in it, all of it, the more you understand that biological system, the more you're going to be able to predict the outcome of your thoughts and actions. And so if you're trying to have a good life, one, you're going to want to define it, which I will say the good life is fulfillment. It's the only emotional state that is resilient to everything from anger, loss, and grief. Through all of that, you can be fulfilled. You may be devastated. And when you lose a loved one, it's devastating. It sucks. There's nothing fun about it. That doesn't mean that I'm not fulfilled as a human. It just means that I'm a fulfilled human going through something brutal. Conversely, if I'm momentarily happy but nothing is going right in my life, I'm not contributing in any meaningful way. I can laugh for five minutes and still be depressed. So fulfillment, I would say, is the only thing that's resilient. You're not going to be depressed and fulfilled at the same time. It's just not. Now that we have a definition for what the good life is, now we can actually begin moving towards it. Now, the reason I say that step one is recognizing that you're having a biological experience is I understand the things that are going to lead to fulfillment. One of them is working really hard. Another one is following or developing a passion that lets you contribute. That's number three to the group and to yourself. So if those are the rough ingredients that make up this cocktail of fulfillment, we have to figure out this idea of contributing to the group. What's that all about? That's about being a social animal. Now, what's the ultimate iteration of being a social animal? It is love. Now, why is love so potent? Because nature has one aim and one aim only. The reason you are a social animal is because of this one reason. The reason that you have drive and ambition is because of this one reason. Nature's only goal. This is it. This is the punchline of everything, every. Your motivation for sitting here right now, my motivation for answering these questions, the reason that we put these cameras together, built this channel, all of it, is for one thing, because nature wants to make sure that you have kids, that have kids. That's it. And now everything in your brain is nature pulling levers to make sure that you live long enough to have kids, to have kids, and that you actually have kids. So love, which I will say is a neurochemical state, is nature's way of going, yo, I want to make sure you do this thing. So it's this incredible cocktail of. I mean, obviously there's different kinds of love. I will assume you mean romantic love. Since you referenced my relationship. So romantic love is like the thing. It is the thing that when you think about how people want to feel. In fact, when they have people describe how they want to feel and they look at that neurochemistry, you know what it most closely matches, Even though this isn't the word that people put to it. Do you have a guess?
- [66:48]
Interviewer
Like, looks like you're on drugs or something.
- [66:50]
Tom Bilyeu
It's an orgasm. And so it makes sense that if nature's job is make sure that you stay alive long enough to have kids that have kids, that the neurochemical cocktail of an orgasm be pretty high on people's list. So as people are describing it, they're like, oh yeah, that's the neurochemical you feel right after an orgasm. So technically it isn't the orgasm itself, but it's that cocktail afterwards. All the bonding hormones are secreted after that. You can actually predict. I don't know with what degree of accuracy, but I'm going to guess it is extraordinarily high that you can predict who will stay married by the number of receptors that they have for. I think it's vasopressin, which is one of the bonding hormones. So there's oxytocin and vasopressin are the two biggest. The ones where you're. It's like the cuddle hormones. So that's the kind of feeling over time that you want to have for somebody. Why? Because then you're more likely to have kids and then you're likely to raise them long enough that they have kids. Because it's not just having kids, it's having kids that have kids. So you have to keep them alive. And all of the crazy things that nature does to do that are incredible. But nature only has two levers, pleasure and pain. And one of those tremendous pleasures that nature will give you that is extraordinarily resilient to suffering and loss and sadness and all that is that really deep love. Not the early lusty stuff that's super fun, but like that really deep. I have shared a life, I don't know who I am without this person love that you can have with another person. If you're leveraging all of that neurochemical cocktail of soaking in the bonding so that over time that sense of love is like nothing can touch it. Nothing can give me that, right? I've made a lot of money in a single day, right? Nine figures in a single day. I'll let people go put in a calculator. Nine figures to see just how much that is in a single day. Okay, it's a dope feeling, but it's not love. Love trumps everything I've ever been through in my life when it's sustained. And so I put a lot of energy into it, a lot of energy, because it gives me back more than anything else in my life.
- [69:09]
Interviewer/Host
So you mentioned how nature is programmed you to have kids who have kids, and you made a personal decision not to do that. Why did you opt out of what nature wants?
- [69:25]
Tom Bilyeu
Why I opted out of it, we'll get to in a second. But the fact that we can all opt out is fun because I'm like, ha. I got you, bitch. It's like nature thought she had me, but, you know, I'm not playing that game. So here's the thing. I really want kids. To this day, I really want kids. There are still moments where I'll see that thing that's like, oh, man. It triggers all of my desire to have kids. And I'm like, man, I am very sad that I can't both have the life that I'm living and have the life where I have kids. But I looked at my life from several different vantage points. What my wife calls the average Wednesday. So what would an average Wednesday look like if I had kids? And I know myself, and I feel a tremendous amount of obligation. In fact, part of the reason that I work as hard as I do at Impact Theory is I feel an obligation to you guys. I feel an obligation to the team. And I really. I take that seriously in ways that I think most people would be distressed by. And so for me, it's like, okay, I really need to think about that. If I had kids, I would feel a huge obligation to them to come home. And so one thing that I like about work is that I don't feel conflicted. Lisa and I are building it together. So as I put energy into this, I'm putting energy into something that I'm doing with my wife. So that doesn't feel like it's fragmented energy. It feels like it's coming together. That was obviously on purpose. I'm building a company that brings many of my passions, not all of them, but many of my passions together. So even as I pursue things that I would do no matter what, I'm also building the business. And I do that because I know I'm going to feel that sense of obligation. So let me make sure that I'm doing things that I love to satisfy the obligation. If I had kids now, when I'm at Work, I would feel like I should be with my kids. When I'm with my kids, I should feel like I, I would feel like I should be at work. I just know that about myself. So I wanted to be really honest. And then you don't miss what you don't have. So it's not like I had a seven year old and they died. Just never had kids, right? So kids are thought so I can think and I'll have those moments sometimes really intense, like, oh dude. Like you see that moment? Like, have you guys seen that TikTok trend where it's like they record. They do like the little. There's a song and they like propose to their daughter and they have the daughter recording. She doesn't realize she's recording herself and she's like looking at them with like awe and joy. I'm like, oh God, like that hits me right in the feels and I'm like, oh man, I want to have a daughter.
- [71:56]
Interviewer
Or like the joy. Jordan Peterson 1. Did you know that one where they have like kids will not always be kids. They'll grow up and they haven't seen it. And it's just like people videoing their kids going up from like a kid to like 5 years old.
- [72:08]
Tom Bilyeu
Even hearing about that kicks me in the feels.
- [72:11]
Interviewer
Yeah, yeah, you just mix a somersault. Like Lisa says yes.
- [72:14]
Tom Bilyeu
Oh yeah. My, my. Suddenly I have a uterus as well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it that kind of thing. Like they really, really hit me. So. But anyway, I can set that aside because I'm like, my marriage is amazing. I fully understand nature's trick, which is when you have a kid, the child will be your number one priority. And right now Lisa is my number one priority. I don't know that this is a stat, but I'd be willing to bet that relationships are more likely to break up or be dysfunctional. That's a better way to say it. Relationships are more likely to be dysfunctional if you have kids. So even people that stay together, I think it's a higher likelihood that that stopped being a very thriving emotional and sexual relationship if you have kids. So I'm super thoughtful about that. And then again, average Wednesday don't really like, I hate like doing things that kids want to do and stuff like that. I have so little time. It's like, I want to do the things I want to do. And then when I look back on my life and walk through all the different moments because all of our lives are broken into phases, I look at the different phases. It's not until I'm in my 60s that I start to go, ooh, I think that having kids will like, be pretty important to me. And by the time I'm 80, I will regret it. There's no doubt about that. But because I've thought through it, I'll know how to deal with that frame of reference when I get there so that I don't get destroyed by it. Because it's when people are caught off guard by a frame of reference. And explaining a frame of reference is beyond the scope of this conversation. But when you get to that frame of reference, you see life through that. And when you get caught off guard, like by having a kid and you didn't think through that well, or not having kids and you didn't think through that well. At last check, the most unhappy people in America are mid-30s female lawyers because they've chosen career over children. And they are now at that moment where it's like, whoa, is this really what I want for my life? Now, maybe other occupations, they love it and it's not a problem, but. But for whatever reason, 35 year old women attorneys, it's emotional implosion time. So that's somebody who did not think through what are the different phases of my life. Like, it's dope in my early 20s where I'm like, yo, I'm proving I could do anything I set my mind to. I'm grinding, I'm making a ton of money. This is rad. And then you realize, oh, wait a second, maybe there are other things that I didn't think through. But if you think through that and you're like, oh, in my mid-30s, I may want to kids, but you know what? I'd actually rather play my career out now. At least you're not taken by surprise, so you can plan around, okay, I better have a career that gives me those things. Thinking through that, I think is very important. I know when I get to 80 that I will be very grateful that I thought through how my frame of reference will change. And so I will make plans to be able to mentor people to have. In fact, I'm starting to do that now, even just in the way that I shift my own thinking. Thinking about myself more as like a father trying to like, hey, I've suffered in my life. I want other people to learn easily what I have learned through great suffering, which is of course what one of the things that makes being a parent cool. It's like, hey, I can help you hopefully make your life a little bit better. And so that part of being a parent, I can express in a lesser way. I'm very well aware of that through the people in the company, through the people that watch the content. So being aware of how the frames of reference shift is important. But anyway, that's how I have the way. I've thought about pulling a fast one on mother Nature to the extent that you can, but it's a trade off.
- [75:42]
Interviewer/Host
And then the last question I had was, what are, like, three behaviors that you do to reinforce your love for Lisa that other people can put into their relationships?
- [75:52]
Tom Bilyeu
Okay, so this is huge. One, don't criticize, compliment. So when I was young and you get together and you're in that relationship and everything is great, but then you start living together and like that super drug, like early days starts to wear off, and all of a sudden it's all the things that they do that drive you crazy. And you're like, hey, could you not do that? You know, when you do that, it really bugs me. Hey, oh, God, stop. Why are you doing it like that? And I was like, wow, when she does it to me, that drives me crazy. So I was like, you know what? Every time I have an impulse to criticize her, instead, I'm going to reach for a real compliment. I'm never going to lie. I'm not going to bs, but I'm going to reach for a real compliment. What that does is it pattern interrupts in my own brain. So I'm not reinforcing the negative thing because it really is negative. Like, the person really is doing something that drives you crazy, and it probably really is a dumb thing that if you could wave a wand to make go away, you would. And so it's not even like I'm saying that annoying thing isn't actually annoying. It is. But if I obsess over it, all I'm going to see is the annoying thing, whereas that positive thing is also real. So I want to make sure I'm spending my time thinking about the positive thing. So don't criticize compliment. Always make it real. But spend your time in the compliment. Have a lot of sex, just real. Like, even now in my 40s, it is so funny. In my late 40s, I can think back to what I was like in my early 20s, my poor wife. And like, going through that and thinking, oh, it's gonna be like this forever. It's not like, as your hormones change, and I know that I'm only one testosterone injection from being right back there, but it feels more manageable. Whereas Before I felt like a drug addict who couldn't focus. It's like now I feel like, hey, I have a healthy relationship with this drug. I'm a recreational user now instead of an addict, which is way better. And so being in that space though, I've realized it's so critically important. It is a thing that is unlike anything else in your life. It's the only person that you have that relationship with if you're monogamous. And that's not an over vote for monogamy, but monogamy has a really potent upside. And so being in a monogamous relationship and knowing that that's my one outlet for that, you realize that sex is this fascinating thing that is a mode that we all go into. And going back to nature wants to make sure that you have kids, that have kids. It's like nature made sure that that was an awesome thing that is unlike anything else. And so I'm legitimately freaked out by how much less sex young people are having now because they're missing out on something incredibly potent. Now I'm only vouching for sex with connection. I won't say that it has to be a marriage because I've had my share of non marital sex and it was awesome and I'm not denigrating that at all, but I've always found that it's way more enjoyable if it's somebody that you have a real connection with. So. But thinking about it like that, it is this mode that you don't get anywhere else. If you have a spouse and you have what they call bed death, that relationship is going to become dry and brittle. That's metaphoric obviously, but that you'll, that you'll get the right idea in your head. Whereas if you maintain a sexual relationship, you're constantly crossing this weird boundary into like this, this completely unique space that you only have with that person. And nature is squeezing this neurochemistry that constantly bonds you, brings you back together. So that's hugely important. I cannot see stress that enough. And then number three, you have to be a high level communicator. You've got to invest in saying things that you don't want to say. And I think one of the biggest breakthroughs in my marriage was when I finally realized that I had to say out loud anytime. Insecurity was driving me because then my wife could help me. And as long as she never weaponized the insecurity against me. Now it's not my wife's problem to solve. Now hopefully she can help Me overcome that, that would be amazing. But it's not. She doesn't need to solve that problem. That's my problem to solve. But she can't weaponize my insecurities against me. And by me articulating them now we know what's actually going on. So we're not arguing about a surface level thing. We get to the real issue that's driving it. We can both process through that together. And so now you have stupid fights that last forever. You're getting to the root cause of the issue. I mean, this is exactly like in medicine. Don't treat the symptom, find the underlying cause. But when you are arguing, you have friction in your marriage. You have to figure out the underlying cause. And I promise you, it's either a collision of values. So you just, you both understand each other. You just disagree that that's how the world should be. It's misaligned base assumptions. So you are viewing the world in a way that you don't even realize you're doing it. So people don't realize what their base assumption is. It's just, it's what they call an axiom. You just live by it. Like, oh, I assume that that emotion is very distressful for you, so why wouldn't you want to solve the problem? You assume that I know that it's not uncomfortable to sit in a negative emotion. Those are base assumptions. But in reality, my base assumption is, you're in so much pain right now from this emotion, the only thing that makes sense is for us to solve that problem. And your base assumption is, dude, how can I solve a problem if I haven't had a chance to sit in it yet? But if we don't say that I'm trying to solve the problem, you're like, asshole, just listen, right? And so when two smart people are colliding, they need to check their base assumptions first. Like, what's your base assumption? That I need to sit with this emotion before I can problem solve. I need to problem solve to even think straight. Cool. Now we can begin to understand each other. So it's either values, it's misaligned base assumptions, or you've got an insecurity that's driving you and you either aren't aware of it or you're not being honest about it. And so if you get that stack right, then all of a sudden communication becomes very easy. But man, you've got to be emotionally naked. And that is very, very difficult. But it is hyper rewarding if you have a partner that doesn't use it against you.
- [81:47]
Interviewer/Guest Questioner
So everybody sees how strong your relationship is with Lisa, how amazing it is, how deep. But then also people see how amazing your. The career side of it is. Like, your business impact theory is growing, it's thriving. And I just want to know how you balance that to keep both of them leveled up so evenly, to keep them both growing, and what your advice would be to people who don't know how to balance their relationship and their business or their work.
- [82:16]
Tom Bilyeu
So if you want to balance things, you have to know thyself. So just a few days ago, I sent Lisa a text that hurt her feelings, and I didn't mean it to. I said, hey, would you mind if we did this business thing on a day that was special for her? And I. And I even said, you're probably going to hate this idea, but because, remember, I feel a tremendous obligation to work for you guys and to make sure that the company thrives and all that. So I'm always thinking like, hey, this would be really good for the team. Now, Lisa's role, stated role, it's not like she would be confused if she heard me say this. She'd be like, yeah, that's my role. Her stated role is to be the early warning system, because I don't see the problem coming in the relationship as quickly as she does. So we refer to it as being disconnected where I work so much that we start to feel disconnected. So thank you for saying that. People see my relationship as thriving, and I would say that it is, but it's because we have these bumpers and I'll bump up against it, as I did just a few days ago. And I sent that thing and said, hey, let's do this business. I know this is that really special day for us, but let's do this, because I think it'd be good for the team. And she said, hey, that hurts my feelings that you would even ask because it makes me feel not heard and not understood. Because 2022 was the hardest year of my business life. And for eight months, she let me work 120 hours a week. That's not even getting a full night's sleep. That's working around the clock seven days a week. I mean, it's pandemonium, and I do not recommend it. I'm not proud of myself for doing it. It was actually a result of mistakes. Do I think I'm a badass for doing it? Yes. But do I think it was a problem of my own making? Very much so. So my wife was very understanding through that. Now, I promised her that I would find my way back to her, which I did. And so. But now she's very gun shy of like, hey, I gave you grace and latitude for eight months, and now you want to do a work thing on our special day? That makes me feel very unheard. Now, if either thing happens poorly in that moment, we have a problem. But Lisa and I do that movement. Well, she speaks up and says, hey, it bothered me that you even asked. And I'm like, oh, damn. Like, I don't like that it bothers you that I ask. Because your role is to play that person where I can say, hey, let's do this. And you say, early warning. Don't do that. So she had to be graceful in that moment and say, cool, I'm not going to double down. I'm not going to be angry. Let's not do that. As the early warning system. I'm telling you, we can't do it. And then if in that moment, I'm like, yo, what the fuck? Like, come on, this will be better for the business. I thought we were in this together. Then she's going to feel abandoned in the marriage. So I'm like, hey, your stated role is to be the one to say, nope, that will lead to us feeling disconnected. And so when you say it, even though I have an impulse to go in the opposite direction and I'm not feeling disconnected, and that feels like a really small thing to me. That's your role word. So I'm going to immediately back off totally. I'm actually sorry that I asked because I didn't mean to upset you. And I totally get where you're coming from. I hear you, like, we're on it. And so now we just. We move on. I'm more thoughtful about, okay, fair. Like, the eight months is pretty intense. I totally get why she's saying that. Next time, I'm going to try to catch myself before I ask, but if I do, she's not going to be upset, but she is going to check it and say, you can't do that. So it's one understanding. It takes constant maintenance. There is no such thing as, oh, my marriage is great and it will remain great forever. My marriage is great because we work on it every single day now, balancing the business in that. It doesn't mean that I give more, more time to my marriage, because I don't. I give more time to the business, but it does mean that I prioritize my marriage. So if my wife says, hey, we can't do that thing, then we're not going to do it. Like, I will just tell you, the CFO pulled Lisa and I aside and was like, yo, two weeks of Christmas, crazy town, can't do it. And I was like, I'm just telling you right now, two weeks of Christmas every year from now until the end of time. Because, like, the rest of my life, I make it about my business for two weeks. I'm not a businessman. I'm a family man. It is what it is. And he was like, okay, cool. Like, totally on board. I get it. But that's one of those. You have to know, like, I need to do this set of 32 things to make sure that my marriage is always thriving. And they don't always mean the most time. Now, it's not an accident that Lisa and I build the company together. I would never be able to work as much as I do if we didn't. And I know this because the first company that when I got into entrepreneurship for eight years, she wasn't. And it was a nightmare. And even though I worked less, it was harder on the marriage than when I'm working more now because we're in it together and we share the same stories and the same people and wants and all that good stuff.
- [87:04]
Interviewer
I read Feeling Great. You mentioned it earlier. And I might inflame the comment section by saying this, but I feel like if that book exists, then why do people who read it don't suddenly like, oh, now I'm no longer depressed or no longer feeling anxious in that sense? Because he lays out all the steps very clearly. So what do you think is the thing that causes people to just not be, like, transformed from reading a book? Is it the number three thing that you said early in the beginning? Like, just not enough repetition. It just hurts the first time that they do it so they don't follow through. Like, what is the thing that.
- [87:40]
Tom Bilyeu
Yeah, big reason that people struggle to get out of depression, even if they've read a book like Feeling Great is that one. They aren't. They don't believe the following very inflammatory statement that you can get control of your neurochemistry. And they think that it's all in the mind and they don't realize that it's a far more complicated beast than that. But because they don't believe that they can completely get control of it, they will try a few things early on and stop. Now, if you have depression and you are not dealing with the body, your microbiome very specifically, then the odds of you Getting out of that depression are virtually zero. And so even a book as extraordinary as Feeling Great is only dealing with the psychological component of depression. And it is free far deeper than that. So your gut controls many of your neurotransmitters and serotonin. So SSRIs are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, meaning they keep more serotonin floating in your body. Now, 70% of the serotonin in your body is produced and stored in the gut. So if the very chemical that they use to combat depression is in your gut and you're not dealing with your gut now, you have a problem. But it goes back to what I call the only belief that matters. If people don't think, oh, I can control this, then they won't keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going until they find that root cause. So they think that this is, oh, this is that thing that happened to me, a tragedy befell me, and therefore I'm never gonna be able to get out of this. This is because of the trauma that I went through in childhood. Yes, partly. But you can get out of that. You can unwind that stuff. And I am not in any way, shape, or form saying this to be flippant. I am not trying to diminish the terrifying grip that is depression. I'm just saying you have to believe that you can get your way out of it. And yes, it is hyper complicated. And having watched Lisa go through an extraordinary battle with her microbiome and seeing how complicated it is to undo all that, the psychological side's already bad enough, especially if it's a result of trauma, abuse, where that gets hardwired in. I mean, that's in your nervous system in a deep way. That is going to be very complex to unwind. But it starts with believing that you can unwind it and then doing something like cognitive behavioral therapy, where you go through. I forget how many. Like, it's like 13 steps, and one of the steps is like the 15 cognitive distortions. I mean, it's crazy. So it is already a very complex book, just cognitively, psychologically. That takes a lot of repetition, which requires you to believe that it's going to work. But then it's also the very difficult part of getting your body right. Sleep, exercise, diet. Diet. You want to talk about, hey, let's really light the comment fire on the comment section. On fire. Remind people that what they eat is going to influence their microbiome, is going to influence their production of serotonin, is going to influence their Sleep is going to influence depression, anxiety, all of it. It just is. And if you're eating junk food, you are making everything worse. Not a moral judgment. It's just a biological reality. Now, if you can strip away the moral judgment and realize you're not a bad person if you eat junk food, but you are a person that's creating obstacles for feeling good. So all I'm saying is remove the obstacles. Now, there are people in my life that I love that put every food obstacle in their way humanly possible. They are actively in pain, and they actively tell me how much they're suffering, and they actively ask me what they should do to stop suffering, and they keep doing it. Does that mean that I think they are a worse person? Not in the slightest. I love them just as much. I think they're just as valuable as a human being. And I really wish that they would remove the moral judgment from themselves, because it is not a moral question. It is 100% entirely a question of this path leads to one outcome, this path leads to a different outcome. Pick the path where you like the outcome and then walk that path. And so people have to recognize. I can do that. That there are. It is cause and effect. There's nothing mythological about this. It's cause and effect, but it is hyper complicated. It is both psychology and physiology unwinding that will almost certainly require that you get help from professionals and other people. And so the shortest answer in the world to your question is, it's complicated.
- [92:13]
Interviewer
Rewatch this episode.
- [92:15]
Tom Bilyeu
But even that, like, now, how do you go in and do like, Lisa had me by her side, and it still took five years to get back to baseline with her microbiome. And, man, when you're in the thick of it the whole time, you're asking, is this actually going to work? Because some days it doesn't feel like it. Some days it feels like this is going to be forever. And it's not until you look back a year and go, yeah, wow, that's right. I actually have 17 more foods that I can eat now that I couldn't eat before. But I still, three days a week, have just absolute agony in my gut. And so this still sucks. Then two years, you look back and you're like, oh, wow, I'm only having that two days a week. Four years in, you're like, oh, that's right. I only have it occasionally. And then five years in, you're like, God, this took a very long time. But there's a lot of dark days for somebody struggling with depression. But if you don't believe that, you can unwind it. If you don't believe that you're in control, even though it's very complicated, then you'll never do it. And having been a victim of something would be horrible, but you now have to take control and say, okay, this sucks. I can't undo the past, but I always can control how I react to that thing. Don't take my word for it. Read man. Search for meaning. That is the ultimate form of abuse. He was in a concentration camp, so, like, nobody's got a trump card to play on him, right? And his punchline is it's all about how you process it emotionally.
- [93:44]
Interviewer
So if you can share whether in that five years, were there days that Lisa just did not believe?
- [93:49]
Tom Bilyeu
Oh, yeah. Well, they were the darkest days of my marriage. They were depression. They were me being afraid she was going to die because she was so sick. There was her being so fed up. I don't even want to try anymore. Why try? Why bother? There's no point. It's like, wow, that's hard. There were times where she would respond to love with just rejection and anger. It was like, what is happening? And so it was brutal. And we didn't know. I mean, you had to have blind faith that it was going to work. But did I know it was going to work? No. And there were times where even I was like, I have to act as if this is going to work. But I've never been through this before. And this is early, man. We, as like, a mainstream society, have only known about the microbiome for, like, 10 years. Like, a year before Lisa got sick, I had never even heard of the microbiome. So it's like, dude, this stuff is so complex that it does feel like a big question mark. But I will just say there is a solution to every problem.
- [94:58]
Interviewer
Those are just that. You guys just sleep it off and tomorrow you will feel better again. Or like, what is like that thing to get back to. To. To base baseline and not that. What do you call it? Like, not exaggeration, but, like, magnification of the problem.
- [95:15]
Tom Bilyeu
Catastrophic thinking.
- [95:16]
Interviewer
Yeah. Cat surprising it.
- [95:18]
Tom Bilyeu
So the only way to stop catastrophizing is to pattern interrupt that. Not allow yourself to wallow in that cognitive distortion to say, I'm going to base things on fact and then have a growth mindset. When you have a growth mindset, you have the only belief that matters, which is that if I put time and energy into getting better at this thing, I will actually get better at this thing. So if I put time and energy into learning about the microbiome, I will learn about the microbiome. So when I went into it, I said to Lisa, look, I'm going to go learn about the microbiome. And I would wake up every morning and the first thing I would do is I would spend a, a couple of hours researching the microbiome. And I just thought, cool, let's say that there's no doctor in the world that can solve her problem. I'm going to learn enough about it to do it myself. And so when you go into it with the arrogance of belief and it's like, cool, I don't need somebody else to know this, I will put all the pieces together. Now, thankfully it didn't end up needing to be that, but because I approached it like that, that I'll read the studies, I will learn all of these things I'll do research on if I have to, I will buy a microscope and start doing laboratory tests. But when you approach something like that, which is how I approach all of life, you realize, oh, I get it. Other people don't succeed at whatever because they're not willing to be absurd. They're not willing to say, I'll become a Nobel Prize winning scientist to solve my wife's problem. If you're willing to say that and actually act in accordance, it's unreal what you can accomplish. Now, obviously we solved the problem long before I had to become a Nobel Prize winning scientist. But the fact that I was willing to move like one, the fact that I was willing to go, yeah, I can do this, I can become that. I'm not yet. I'm going to have to learn a lot. I'm going to have to figure out how to read abstracts and do research and ah, fine, I'm not going to let my wife die. My number one priority is making sure that we get her back on track. And then you go at it like a freak of nature. But most people cannot do the first part, which is to believe that it's fucking possible. And this is what I want to scream to people is like, hey, fuckhead, you are average. Yes, stop being afraid of that. You're average. But you can get better. Go fucking learn. But you have to be a demon. You have to give your brain and body the impulse. Adapt or die, motherfucker. I will break you in half before I give up. When I put on the muscle mass, because boy, did I used to be a lot smaller. When I would show up to the gym every day I had to say adapt or die and I would just tell myself adapt or die motherfucker I will meaning my body I'm going to keep pushing you scream and cry all you want we're doing this. And I would lift to the point I remember one time this is when I was broke I couldn't even unlock my car from the door I had to lean across so open the passenger side lean across to the driver's side and I had worked out so hard that I couldn't hold up my own weight and I put my arm in the seat to reach across and my arm gave out and I literally just face planted into the seat but you have to attack everything you do like that and when you go that hard you will be shocked Everything will relent to your superior will everything will relent to your superior will. Never forget that. There it is everybody. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace.