← Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory
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- [00:00]
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- [01:01]
Tom Bilyeu
Hey everybody. You are about to watch an amazing episode of Impact Theory with David Goggins. I love this episode more than I can tell you. I absolutely am blown away by David Goggins himself, but I want to give a full disclaimer. First of all, this man swears a lot at and when I say that, you know it's an issue. So if you have kids around you, now would be the time to get them out. Also, his worldview is ultra hardcore. I'm not recommending that everybody do what he does, which is pretty extreme, but I just wanted to give everybody a full warning ahead of time. But I think this man is incredible. But let it be said, you have been warned. And now, welcome to Impact Theory with David Goggins. You're listening to the Impact Theory podcast, your source of empowering ideas and actionable techniques from the world's highest achievers. Join host Tom Bilyeu, serial entrepreneur and co founder of the billion dollar brand Quest Nutrition, on a journey to unlock your potential and realize your vision of success. Welcome to Impact Theory.
- [02:10]
David Goggins
Hey everybody.
- [02:11]
Tom Bilyeu
Welcome to Impact Theory. You are here my friends, because you believe that human potential is nearly limit. But you know that having potential is not the same as actually doing something with it. So our goal with this show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that will help you actually execute on your dreams. All right, today's guest is widely considered to be the toughest man on the planet and one of the greatest endurance athletes of all time. But if you're tempted to dismiss him as the product of amazing genetics, great parenting or even performance Enhancing drugs? Think again. He grew up in an abusive household, spent his high school years as one of only a small number of black kids in a tiny Indiana town roughly 20 miles from where the KKK was founded. He had to endure relentless bullying and he barely managed to graduate with a 1.6 GPA. He struggled with obesity twice in his life, weighing in at over 300 pounds. Had severe allergies, sickle cell trait and a congenital heart disease that left him with a hole in his heart the size of a poker chip. He grew up feeling soft and weak, with no self esteem. But despite all of that, one day he decided he was going to stop saying woe is me and start kicking some ass. That set him on a path to transforming himself into the hardest man alive. Did he do it well? He's the only member of the US Armed forces to complete SEAL training, the US Army Ranger School, and the Air Force Tactical Air Controller training. He's completed the infamous destroyer of Men known as Hell Week three times, including two in a single year and one that he started and finished with multiple stress fractures and a hernia. He served in combat in Iraq, was the bodyguard for the Iraqi Prime Minister. He once held the Guinness world record for most pull ups in 24 hours at 4,030. He's run eight, eight consecutive 100 mile races over eight back to back weekends. He ran over 7,000 miles in a single year and that is the equivalent of running 267 marathons. I think it is abundantly clear that this man is a self made beast. So please help me in welcoming the man who once ran an ultra marathon with pneumonia, the king of no excuses, David Goggins. Thank you so much for coming on.
- [04:46]
David Goggins
Appreciate it man. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- [04:48]
Tom Bilyeu
My pleasure. I assure you the things that you've done are absolutely incredible. But what I find fascinating is if you just read your litany of things that you've accomplished, you do just assume, oh, you must be really gifted, you're shredded, you're in great shape. But when you see the before picture, it's pretty startling. So what was that moment like looking in the mirror the day you decide, okay, wait, enough is enough?
- [05:13]
David Goggins
Well, it was pretty crazy for me. It took a while to get to that point where enough was enough. What happened? I came home one night from work spraying for cockroaches and long story short, I turned on the Discovery Channel, I saw some guys going through Navy SEAL training and they were going through hell week and they were getting their ass just beat in out of the water guys ringing the bell there was suffering. And I was weighing like 297 pounds. And I had to make a change in my life. You know, I was at an all time low and I wasn't going anywhere. And I was exactly what everybody said I was going to be, which was nothing. So I had to make a change.
- [05:59]
Tom Bilyeu
What was it about? Seeing suffering. That's really interesting and I actually get it, but I want to hear you explain it. Why suffering was the thing that triggered that thought.
- [06:08]
David Goggins
Well, for me growing up, I came from a horrible background. I got called nigger every day of my life growing up. Lived in a small town. The Klan headquarters at that time was about 20 minutes from where I lived. The one of the high ups in the KKK son sat behind me in two classes, so he called me nigger all the time. Got my first car, they spray painted, nigger, we're going to kill you on it. So I was just an insecure, scared kid. And the only way I could find myself was through putting myself through the worst thing possible.
- [06:45]
Tom Bilyeu
How'd you have the insight, though? Like, that's so counterintuitive. Like most people, that's precisely what they're trying to get away from, right? So what was it in you at that moment? You're overweight, you've been bullied essentially your entire life up to that point. What makes you go, all right like that? That's what I've got to do.
- [07:02]
David Goggins
Well, no one was helping me out. So my mom. My dad made my mom kind of irregular. So she worked three jobs, went to college full time, so she was never around. One time this. This person drew a picture of me and, you know, said, we're going to kill you, nigger on my Spanish notebook. And I took it to my principal and my principal said, they spelled nigger niger. That was the best advice he can give me. So, long story short, what I realized was no one was here to help me. And the feeling I had every morning. I started shaving my head when I was 16 years old. And the feeling I had every morning when I looked in the mirror was horrible. And I didn't want to feel like that anymore. And how I felt was a kid going nowhere. A kid that was scared. And most kids will accept that and look for help. But the best thing that happened to me, no one helped me. No one felt sorry for me. No one looked at me and said, like this day and age, they'll take you in and they'll tell everybody, stop picking on this person. Back Then they didn't care. The KKK marched in our 4th of July parades. They had to stay 100 yards back, but they marched in it.
- [08:08]
Tom Bilyeu
Wow.
- [08:08]
David Goggins
That's how this town was. And my mom cared about me, but my dad took our soul and she did the best she could. I had to figure out I wasn't going to be a punk kid all my life. So the only way I could turn around was to suffer. I had to build calluses in my brain the same way I built calluses on my hands. So I broke the Ginsburg world's record for pull ups a long time ago, but I failed at it twice. And I did 67,000 pull ups in trying to break this record. So to do 4030 pull ups, I had to do 67,000 for training for that.
- [08:46]
Tom Bilyeu
Wow.
- [08:47]
David Goggins
And so what I realized is for me to become the man I wanted to become, I saw myself as the weakest person God ever created. But I never blamed God for anything he did to me. So I wanted to change that. To be the hardest man ever created. Am I that? I don't know. But you had to have a goal. And my goal, when I was sitting there not going to school, being bullied, having no self esteem, my goal was the only person that's going to turn this person around is me. The only way I can turn around is put myself through the worst things possible a human being can ever endure. And that'd be the only way that I can build this brain to handle anything that comes in front of it. Callousing my mind through pain and suffering.
- [09:34]
Tom Bilyeu
That's so powerful. It's such an amazing insight. So obviously listening to some of the stuff that you're talking about and one thing that you say often is, you know, it's hard to stay hard or get hard when you're living in, you know, like you even said at one point, in a big mansion in Beverly Hills, right? So I was sitting there thinking, you're absolutely right. But what I find so interesting is how we as a species run from pain, we run from suffering. And one of the reasons, I've talked about this before, but one of the reasons my wife and I don't have kids is I firmly believe that you need something that is brutal, is difficult, is hardship. It knocks you off center, it makes you feel bad because in the process of rebuilding and clawing back from that climbing up, then you can become something. But you, unless you've been tested, unless you've gone through the ringer, you've got no hope. So how do you take somebody that you love and force them through that? And I think that what you've done is maybe the ultimate expression of that, which is how do you put yourself through it? Or you don't have to do any of that. So in the end, like, what would your advice be to that 16 year old kid who's staring in the mirror, does not like what he sees but is still running from adversity?
- [10:49]
David Goggins
Well, my biggest advice to him is that first of all, he won't like what I say to him because I'm going to say the exact opposite of what the world, today's world is saying. So we read a bunch of books nowadays as humans, we want to find out how to be someone else. What we don't do is we don't go inside. So literally turn yourself inside out, read the book. That's like we're writing a book every day of our lives, but we never read that book. So what I would challenge this young man or young woman to do is you have to look inside of yourself to see what you really want. What are you passionate about? We use these words and these little phrases of only the strong survive and all this other crap. They're all just fucking words. I get so tired of hearing people just talking. Like right now, someone may think Goggins just talking, you don't know me. So when I speak, I speak from passion, I speak from experience, I speak from suffering. I have to tell this young man and woman that the only way I believe, and this is just my experience in life, the only way you're ever going to get to the other side of this journey is you have got to suffer to grow. To grow, you must suffer. And some people will get it and some people won't. But they have to see what their journey is to start their journey. Several people live to be 100 years old and they have great lives and they have great kids, their kids go to college and all sorts of stuff. But somewhere in their life there was a point where they had a decision to make. They can go left or right on this path. Left was the easy route, right was the hard route. A lot of people take the easy route and they had a good life that way. But the better life was going to the right side. And you may have 20 years of pain and suffering to get past it. But a lot of us die never truly starting our journey. And I would tell this young person, you got to start your journey. It may suck, but it will, it will come out the other side where you're coasting.
- [12:46]
Tom Bilyeu
So it's really. I want to go back to what you're saying about that. We write our own book, writing it every day, but we actually don't take the time to read it. So what do you. As you were saying that. Here's what I was saying and tell me if this is where you were going, that basically you're writing down these things that are sort of becoming your identity. About being weak, about avoiding suffering, about being soft, essentially. I mean, all the things sort of by default, they're in that camp. And as you were saying that, I was imagining you sort of taking that pen and beginning to write your own story and writing things that you knew was looking back on that you would be proud of, like going through the military and doing the hardest training, some of the ultra endurance stuff that you've done, which is un. Unbroken feet. I mean, it's like so crazy, in fact, one. Is that what you meant by writing that story?
- [13:34]
David Goggins
So what I meant by that is like every day we're seeing who we are as people. When I was growing up, I. I lied for people to accept me because I didn't accept myself. So I would make up stories. So. So then you would accept me into your world. I would. Everything I did was for someone else to like me. It wasn't until I started reading my own book about how pathetic I was as a human being. I could blame my dad. I can blame kids at school. I could blame having health issues, Add my mom not being around. Great mom, but she was doing her thing. I could blame a lot of people. And that's the book I was reading. And I put it off on everybody else. It wasn't until I said, you know what? For me to fix this, I gotta read what the hell? What the fuck is wrong with David Goggins? Not. Not blame anybody. Read my book and say, okay, I'm afraid of my shadow. How can I overcome that? Go in the military, get your ass kicked, do things you hate to do, be uncomfortable every day of your life. Roger that. I'm not the smartest kid in the world, okay? Instead of somebody saying, oh, no, you're smart. No, no, don't say that to yourself. I said to myself, no, I'm a dumb motherfucker, okay? Roger that. How you get smarter, Educate yourself. So the things that we run from, we're running from the truth. We're running from the truth, man. So the only way I became successful was going towards the truth. As painful and as brutal as it is, it changed me. It Allowed me to become in my own right who I am today, one
- [15:08]
Tom Bilyeu
of the most powerful things I think anybody can do. And this. So I used to struggle with self esteem. And my thing was I focused on being smart and I just wasn't that smart. And I focused on being right and I was wrong a lot. And so it created this weird thing in my life where I would constantly try to put myself around people who are less and less intelligent so that I could feel good about myself. And the bad news is it's actually a really good strategy for that. Being around people that were less intelligent than me really did make me feel good. Like I felt good about myself. But I literally referred to myself at the time as the king of remedial jobs, because that those are the only jobs that I could really shine at. And it wasn't until I realized I can actually change what I build my self esteem around and I can start building my self esteem around instead of being right or being smart, being a learner, and being willing to admit when I'm wrong. And so the thing that I began to build my self esteem around was being willing and able to stare at my inadequacies. Right. What you said, like I said fully understand, like, how this. This interview is going to be. You warned me ahead of time. This interview is going to be bifurcating. People are going to love it and some people are going to hate it and. But dude, I so believe in the notion of looking at yourself. And if you are pathetic, owning it, right. And saying, because my thing is you can change it. Right. Which you have proven in no uncertain terms.
- [16:27]
David Goggins
That's it.
- [16:27]
Tom Bilyeu
But if you don't admit it, you're never going to be on the path to changing it.
- [16:30]
David Goggins
Exactly.
- [16:31]
Tom Bilyeu
Walk us through, because this is one of those crazy stories. I can't imagine how you pulled this off. Your first ultramarathon, which you got into like really fast. And one why you did it, because I think that's incredible.
- [16:43]
David Goggins
So this, the first ultra marathon, wasn't smart at all. At all. Just. So basically what happened was I was at military free fall school with Morgan Luttrell. Marcus Luttrell, if you guys don't know, was the lone survivor. The guy, he was in a bad op. Op went bad. He was the only Navy SEAL that lived. Long story short, got to get the book read. Lone survivor. Great story. Morgan is Marcus the troll twin brother. And I was there with Marcus. So what happened was myself and Morgan were in free fall school at the same exact time Marcus was in the Worst incident in still history. So I knew that Marcus might be dead. He wasn't dead. Everybody else was dead. So I actually bought. You know, I actually told Morgan, hey, man, your brother was in a bad incident. I don't know if he's alive. I don't know what's going on. Long story short, Marcus is alive. And I go on to want to raise money for families. All these guys died. They all had kids. I want to raise money for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation. It's a foundation where 100% tuition goes to these kids to go to college. You know, full tuition, whatever. So I found this great foundation. I'm going to raise money for it. So I said, you know what? I have to Google something that's evil. Something very hard. I knew nothing about ultramarathons. I hadn't even run a marathon. I knew nothing about this world. So I Googled the top 10 hardest races in the world. And what comes up is a Badwater 135. It's a 135 mile race through death Valley in the summertime. I thought it was a stage race. I thought it was a race where you run like 20 miles, set up camp, you know, barbecue outside, and then go run some more the next day. So I called the race director up at the race and said, hey, Chris. His name is Chris Coston. I want to do your race. So we had a long conversation. You know, I was much heavier then, and I hadn't put running shoes on in over a year.
- [18:39]
Tom Bilyeu
How heavy are you at this point?
- [18:41]
David Goggins
I'm around between 240 to 270. Whoa. I'm in there. I'm in that range. I've. My. My weight has varied a lot through the SEAL teams and out of the SEAL team. So I was a heavy guy. But the long and short of it all was I hadn't put running shoes on in over a year. I was a big time powerlifter. I lifted weights heavy. That's what I did. I got back home from Iraq, went straight to free fall school, and then this happened. So I called Chris Carson up on a Wednesday. He says, look, man, the only way you can qualify for my race is to run a hundred miles at one time in 24 hours or less. There happened to be a race that Saturday, so four days later. And he said, if you qualify by running 100 miles or less in 24 hours, I will consider you my race. I'm gonna cut to the chase. I signed up for this race. It was called the San Diego One day, where you run around a 1 mile track for 24 hours to see me miles you can get. My goal was a hundred miles, so I got to mile 70 and I cleared 70 miles in like 12, 13 hours pretty quickly. But I was done. My feet were broken. I was stretch fractures, shin splints, muscles were tearing. I was in mad shape. I was eating Ritz crackers and drinking Dioplex. That's all. I had no water, didn't know what the hell I was doing out there. Had on some tube socks. It was just ridiculous. It was a clown show. So I sat down at mile 70 and at this time I was married. And I look at my wife and I was like, I'm messed up bad. So I literally start to turn white. And when a black guy turns white, you're pretty fucked up. So here I am, I'm all fucked up in this chair. I'm at mile 70. They got 30 fucking miles to go. I'm jacked up. I gotta go to the bathroom and the bathroom's like 20ft from me. Support a potty. I can't get out of the chair, so I'm peeing blood down my leg. Whoa. Pooping up my back. And I got 30 miles to go. And I'm. I can't stand up because my, my blood pressure's all messed up. I've been in three hell weeks. Ranger school, overcome so many obstacles in my life. This last 30 miles of this race is when I realized a human being is not so human anymore. We have the ability to go in such a space if you're willing to suffer, and I mean suffer. Your brain and your body, once connected together, can do anything. And this 30 miles was the life changing moment. I was out of it. I was in the worst pain in my entire life. I. I was to me, on the brink of death. And I was able to chunk this 30 damn miles into small pieces. I was so driven. And I'm not going to say motivated because motivation is crap. Motivation comes and goes. When you're driven, whatever's in front of you will get destroyed.
- [21:44]
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- [21:59]
Grainger Announcer
If you work in university maintenance. Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need. All in one place, from H VAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more, and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-granger. Visit granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [22:30]
David Goggins
So I sat in this chair, and I was so driven to succeed in this race. And. And at this time, everybody goes, were you thinking about the guy that died? And I'm not going to lie to you, I wasn't. This became a personal thing. This became me against this race, me against the kids that call me nigger, me against me. It just became something that I took so, so violently personal. And I broke this thing down into small pieces. I said, okay, I got to get nutrition. I got to be able to stand up before I can get off this curb and get off this chair and be able to go 30 miles. So I went through all these small steps, and I was able to stand up. And then from staying up, I was literally walking around with my wife at the time. And she goes, you're not gonna make the time. She goes, you. I mean, you're. You're walking like 30 something minute miles. I got to mile 81. And the second she said that I'm not gonna make the time, I ran the last 19 miles nonstop. And I can show you right now, when we get done with this matter of fact, I'm gonna show you right now. This was years ago, and I had to put compression tape on my ankle. And I had. So this was years ago. I had literally the size of half dollars. I had to get compression tape, and I taped up my ankles and I taped up my feet, and that's how I got through that race.
- [23:56]
Tom Bilyeu
Was it like a hematoma? I mean, what do we.
- [23:58]
David Goggins
No, See, what happened was, like, my shins hurt so bad from having stretch fractures that the only way I can continue on was I taped it. So I wasn't doing the flexor motion that. That activates your. Your shins. So I taped my ankles and my shins up, and I got that from. Because in my third hell week, they weren't gonna let me go back through, you know, training anymore.
- [24:21]
Tom Bilyeu
Right.
- [24:22]
David Goggins
So I literally went through all of buds, my last SEAL training with stretch fractures and shin splints. And how I did it was I would take my ankles all the way up to my calf every morning. So for the first hour, the pain was excruciating. But what happened is my feet would go numb. And I did that every single day for Six months. Whoa. And that's how I got through my third hell week, because I was so broken from the first two that the commander said, hey, the CEO said, this your last time we're sending you through. So that's how I got the idea to do that. So with the right. And people may listen to this and say, this guy is sadistic, he's crazy, he's no. If you know how I came up, you realize I was just a scared kid that found drive and passion to be something much better than what he thought he was. That's all it is. God.
- [25:14]
Tom Bilyeu
I'm going to ask the question. I don't know if you have a good answer for this. I don't know if there is a good answer for this. But even I want to know, how do you find and cultivate that drive? Like, there is a kid right now watching this man. And they feel like you felt. They feel lost, alone, broken, stupid, lazy. Like they're never going to amount to anything. And what you're talking about is the closest thing to a fucking superpower that this kid has ever heard. And right now, he is on the edge of his seat. How does he. How does he, like, force himself to take that first step?
- [25:45]
David Goggins
I'm very fortunate that I grew up at a time when there was no phones and there was no social media. And I suggest, yes, I'm on social media on a very limited basis because I have a story to tell and it's a great platform. Use it as a platform. Don't use it as your life. My biggest advice to give everybody in the world is, like I say, we live in an external world. Everything is. You got to see it, touch it, it's external. If you can, for the rest of your life, live inside of yourself, stop listening to people who are calling you fat, gay, transsexual, nigger. Everything that is makes no sense. All these insecure people putting their insecurities on you. You got to flush it out. You got to just be whoever the hell God or whoever the hell you believe in. If you believe in nothing but yourself, I don't care what it is, you got to take everything and throw it away. You have to believe in one thing, and that is yourself. And I'm not saying don't believe in God or what you believe in. But right now, for you to find greatness in yourself, you're not going to find it by looking in a book or by even hearing me. I may give you the spark, but you've got to go inside yourself to find It. And that means you got to be quiet, shut the fuck up, go in a room, stop talking. Search your soul, search your mind, search your abilities, and you'll find it. But if you're not looking for it, you won't find it. So you got to go start your journey. And the journey starts with you finding why the hell am I here on this planet Earth? Why am I here? And if you don't know that, you will live the rest of your life searching. Always asking the question, why?
- [27:31]
Tom Bilyeu
So on that last 19 miles, feet are broken, ankles are taped, shin splints, stress fractures. What are the words that are going through your mind? Are you in the cookie jar?
- [27:45]
David Goggins
I'm deep in the cookie jar. And the cookie jar is something that I've made up of all the failures of my life, all the things that I failed, and I went back, I failed and I went back and I finally succeeded. All the things that kicked my ass, I put them all in the cookie jar. Because at times of hell, even the hardest men, in times of suffering, what we do is we forget how hard we really are. Because that's what suffering is. Suffering is a test. That's all it is. Suffering is the true test of life. And so that cookie jar travels in my brain. So whenever I get put in a situation where I have poopy pants, the woe is me mentality of, oh, my God, life sucks. I take a second, I take the one second decision. I step out of my life for one second, go in the cookie jar, pull up. Oh, motherfucker, you went. You were in three whole weeks and finished two. One of those hobbies, a guy died and killed. It was so bad. Oh, you are a motherfucking badass, you are. I put it back in the cookie jar, and I remember who the fuck I really am. I'm not the kid that got that was called nigga. I'm not the scared kid. This is who I am. It's a reminder of who you truly are at the core of yourself. But what I was saying to myself the whole time on that track and it. And this is what I say to myself, self talk and visualization are the two keys to my success. I believed for that last 19 miles, I was indestructible because I took myself in that chair, crapping up my back, peeing blood down my leg, shin splints, stress fractures. I use all that for motivation versus negativity. I use it for motivation. I said to myself, who on this fucking earth would still be going right now? You are. You Are you gotta be the hardest motherfucker on the planet. Is it true? I don't give a fuck. At that time, it got me to the finish line of that fucking race. I believed it. I believe it today. I believed it enough to where my body said, he's not gonna stop. And that's. I took all the negative things. I need to go to the hospital. This and that. And I use this all. Who the hell could even get out of that chair? You did. Who the hell would even think about taping stretch fractures up? You did all those things I used for motivation.
- [30:13]
Tom Bilyeu
I'm going to use them for motivation. I mean, that's like. That's so fucking powerful. Talk to me about the dark side. It's something that I'm sure you take a lot of heat for. It's something that I think a lot about. I believe people should intentionally be motivated by beauty and rage. And so many people are afraid of the negative. What power have you found in the darkness?
- [30:40]
David Goggins
First, before I answer that question, I want to say, everybody, listen to this. I'm the happiest man on the planet Earth. So people may take this as so many people do. We live in a very weakened society. So when they hear a throwback guy like me from back in the ancient days of. Of Geranimals, they often think this guy is just whatever. So if you think that I'm some unhappy guy, you're wrong. Having lived the life I've lived and seeing the other side, not being afraid to attack what was in front of me has made me happy.
- [31:16]
Tom Bilyeu
Say that again. And in fact, let me make sure I understood it. Getting to the point where you're not afraid to face the thing on the other side of the door that wants to attack you has made you happy.
- [31:27]
David Goggins
Right? Right.
- [31:28]
Tom Bilyeu
It's really powerful. I hope people heard that.
- [31:30]
David Goggins
Right. That made me very happy. So basically, I just don't walk around with a dad gonna smile on my face all the damn time. So, you know, merry Christmas. But. But basically what the Dark side is, is we all have a cookie jar and we all have a jar of.
- [31:51]
Tom Bilyeu
That's its official name.
- [31:52]
David Goggins
It's a jar of man where shit just. It just ain't going right. And in Hell Week, what they do in Hell Week, because this is where I really went to the dark side. What they do in Hell Week is they design Hell Week to find your flaws. And they do a really good job of that. It's 130 hours of continuous training. You make it two hours of sleep, and they Beat the shit out of you and find everything wrong with your mentality. And then they start Hell week. And that's the beauty of it. And for me, I'm not some nasty God given guy, you know, I don't have a great bit of talent in anything. So what got me through horrible times was the dark side was I created. My name is David Goggins. I created Goggins. Goggins is the guy that can take anything you put in front of him. You want to break my legs, so be it. I have a way of going to a place like I did in that race, where all the pain and suffering that they put on top of me in Hell week, I will reverse that pain and suffering and I will take your soul. So every instructor that put me through buds my job. What drove me was I wanted you to go home that night after you beat the living shit out of me and I smiled in your face. I wanted you to feel worse than I did. And you were going home to a nice warm bed with your wife or your kids in a nice meal and I was still out there in the grip suffering for another 100 hours. I wanted you to think about me knowing that I'm comfortable being very unfin comfortable. And I want you to think about when you went through fucking hell week, how uncomfortable you were and how bad you wanted to quit knowing. I'm not thinking that fucking way. So the dark side is something that I've designed. It's an evil place I can go that very few things can hurt me. I use the hurt you're trying to put on me. I flip it upside down and use it. You trying to use it for kryptonite? No, it's power pillars for me. I'm using it for strength. I just flip negative into positive. That's all it is.
- [34:13]
Tom Bilyeu
I heard you doing an interview one time and the person was trying to see the sort of empowerment, the beauty in that and you were like, no, no, it's darkness. And one of the reasons that I'm so. I'm utterly fascinated with comic books. And one of the reasons that I'm so intrigued by Batman is he literally uses the darkness, the sickness that he has over what happened to him and his family to propel him forward for decades, to, to keep driving. And it's. Most people are broken by the bad things that happen to them, but every now and then there's a Goggins, there's somebody who understands how to use that power to. Understands how as a human being, it fucking drives revenge. Is powerful. Like, to be able to tap into that in a way that's controlled, but to be able to bring it in, to use it, to feel the energy. There is an intoxication to rage. And I don't think people are honest about it when they talk about it. There's a intoxication to that. And if you can tap into it and leverage it, not get lost to it. Which is why I know you always caveat about saying, look, I'm a happy guy. Like, that's not what we're talking about right now, right? But I'm a happy guy. So you can't get overtaken by it. But it's there and it is so powerful, it's real.
- [35:27]
David Goggins
That's why when I. When you said, before this whole thing started, you said I can be me. The second you said I can cuss and be me and cussing people, I say, man, you cuss all the time. Why? Well, I hate to say it. The best way for me to get how I feel across. I can't sit here and say, you know what? Yeah, I went through hell week, and, man, it was. It was really hard. No, that motherfucker takes your damn soul, rips it inside out. And then they say, now we're going to fucking start. Allows me to express where I was at at a point of my life. If I don't give you all of me, why the hell am I here? Why? How will you learn from me? People take so much offense to me. You will never learn from people. If we always tap dance around the truth.
- [36:18]
Tom Bilyeu
Oh, God, I love that.
- [36:20]
David Goggins
We tap dance around the truth by finding the right word. So I don't hurt you because you have thin skin. No. Tighten up, people. It's okay. Trust me. It's okay. You might be called nigger one day. It's okay. You might be called some Jewish word or some faggot or gay word. It's okay. Let them call you that. What are you going to do now? They don't own your life. How are you going to control that now? How are you going to flip it upside down and say, roger that, now I'm going to harness this shit and you'll read about me years from now. How? That's the question. How are you going to do that? Thicken your skin? Become more of a human being? Don't be afraid of the reflection in the mirror because that's all you can be afraid of. Once you overcome the reflection in the mirror, you've done it.
- [37:13]
Tom Bilyeu
I love that, man. You once said that if you were growing up in this generation that you would have a field day because you would take their souls. What did you mean by that?
- [37:21]
David Goggins
The younger generation quits, not everybody. So I got to put that people get their butt hurt. So not everybody. Most of this generation quits the second they get talked to. You did this wrong, you did this wrong or they get yelled at. It's so easy to be great nowadays because everybody else is. Most people are weak. This is a softened generation. So if you have any mental toughness, any ability, if you have any fraction of self discipline, the ability to not want to do it but still do it, people have a hard thing understand. I hate to run. And what makes me so crazy it doesn't need more is people go, well why do you run if you hate it? What are you talking about? I don't want to take showers and eat either. I hate that too. The whole that's life man. And it wasn't until I changed that mentality that I became somebody. I hated going to school. So guess what? I was dumb as shit. That's what one plus one is. Two. But if you can get through to doing things that you hate to do, on the other side is greatness. That's what people don't understand. By me running, I am callous in my mind. I'm not training for a race. I'm training for life. I'm training for the time when I get that 2 o' clock in the morning call that my mom is dead or something happens tragic in life. I don't fall apart. I'm training my mind and my body, my spirit so it's all one. So I can handle what life is going to throw at me because the life I've lived, it throws a whole bunch at you. And if you're not physically immensely prepared for that, you're just going to crumble and you're good for nobody.
- [39:13]
Tom Bilyeu
Talk to me about what it takes to be on one side of a door in Iraq or anywhere knowing on the other side of the door people who are not afraid of you, they're ready for you to come in and you still have, and they have guns and you still have to breach that door.
- [39:27]
David Goggins
That's, that's a great question. It, it, that's a very scary situation when you are on one side of the door and your mind is racing because on the other side of that door it could be no one, it could be four guys with four AK47s. That that door you're about to open could be booby trapped. So once you open it, boom, your legs are gone. So there's a thousand things you think about when you're the first guy, second guy, third guy, getting ready to go in a room and flood it. And that's why I talk about the warrior mentality, and that's why so many people are lost when I start talking. You have the right. You're lucky that you don't have to think like warriors think. You're very privileged. I chose this world to be a warrior, and I would choose it again if I came back to this world. But the mentality of a warrior is very different than normal mentality. You must be that person on that door getting ready to open it, thinking to yourself, if I die, so be it. The only way you can go in that door is knowing there's a great chance you're going to die. Like being a seal, you train with live ammo, you jump on an airplane. Everything you do, you could die. So to be a warrior, why people don't understand me, I'm glad you don't understand me. Merry Christmas. Good on you. Because being a warrior takes a whole different mindset. A whole different mindset to know that there's a great chance I may not. Being a military like I was in for 21 years, I'm lucky. I'm very lucky that I'm alive, able to talk to you, able to still run. But when you sign up on that dotted line to be like a seal, your mentality changes. I may not live. You got to accept that. And that's the mentality you have. And that's what makes you a warrior. If you're scared to die, you're a bad warrior.
- [41:27]
Tom Bilyeu
And so what do you use to push through? Is that. Is that a Goggins moment? Is that finding the darkness? I'm going through hell. I'll become the devil if I have to. Like what? What is that moment? What are you pulling up inside?
- [41:40]
David Goggins
I'm pulling up a lot of the. The dark side of me, but I'm also looking at the guys to my left and to my right, realizing that we're here together, man. And I have to. I have to be strong for them, and they gotta be strong for me. A lot of people, either you like me or don't even in the SEAL teams, but when you get to that door or you get on that mission or you get on that opinion, all that shit's out the door, man. You know, you do it honestly. I mean, people say all the time in these movies and shit, you really out there fighting for that guy beside you. And you can't be a coward because you know what? And this is how I look at everything I do now in life. And this sums it up. I hated jumping out of airplanes, I hated shooting guns. I hated the job as a Navy seal. But I did it because I wanted to change myself. Everything I do, I'm not really comfortable doing. But if you choose to go that route, to go be a Navy Seal, you might as well go be the hardest in the world. Because if you're choosing to do something, you have two routes. You can go there and be a little, a little weak person and get through barely, and that's your reputation, or you can go through the hardest guy you can possibly be and that's your reputation. So my whole thing is, if you're going to choose to open that door in Iraq or Afghanistan, open the, and go in hard. Because they're going to remember you by slowly opening it and peeking in. So if you're going to open it and you made the mind open it, don't crack it open, open the door, go in. That's with life. If you're choosing to do, if you're choosing to do something, attack it because they're going to remember you as not attacking it. So I want to be remembered. You can hate me, but there's one thing you can't say about me. I didn't attack it. So that's the mentality to have. If you're going to do something, you might as well attack it because you could do it anyway, right?
- [43:42]
Tom Bilyeu
Do you use that in civilian life? Like do you still employ the, I'm going to attack it, I'm going to take their souls. Like how does that play out in a non combat zone?
- [43:51]
David Goggins
It still works for me in, in life as far as attacking things because no matter what I want to, you know, no matter what avenue I choose, I want to be the very best. And the very best may not be, I'm number one. The very best is did I leave everything inside of me out there? So attacking is not like, oh, I want to win this or win that or be the best. The best is I'm, I'm running against myself and everything I do and, and that's, and that's what I attack. I attack myself. I'm always questioning myself, I'm always holding myself accountable.
- [44:29]
Tom Bilyeu
Talk to me about the accountability mirror.
- [44:31]
David Goggins
So the accountability mirror is something that I kind of came up with in high school. Like I said, I started shaving my head when I was 16 and I got caught up in trying to impress so many people because no one liked me, me. So I developed so many different identities. Let me sag my pants, you know, let me. Okay, let me pull my pants up. Let me. Let me talk this way or act this way or be this way or. Or whatever the hell it may be. God, dog. There's so many different things I did to try to fit in with so many different groups that when you look in the mirror, that's the one person you can't lie to. So every morning I would shave my head, thanking God I'll reflect back on some of the lies I may have told somebody or some of the ways I acted that I didn't feel comfortable doing. And I did it to impress other normal people. The key word there is normal everyday people. I was trying to make other people like me. How pathetic is that? So this mirror would always tell me. My reflection would say, God, you are a pathetic man. How does that feel? Every day to be this way. So I would just start having myself accountable. How. How did I attack today? How did I attack yesterday? And if I didn't do something I was proud of, I write down a sticky note, and I would fix it. So then my senior year in high school, it was a totally different David Goggins.
- [45:55]
Tom Bilyeu
Can you give an example of something that you wrote down and fixed?
- [45:57]
David Goggins
All right. There was a lunch table that I, you know, I wanted to sit the cool guy at lunch table, man. I wanted, you know, even though everybody's calling me a nigger all the time, I wanted to. To try to act like somebody I wasn't so I could fit in. And I sold my soul to the devil, you know, trying to act like, no, I'm. I'm David Goggins. That's who I am. And so I wrote down on a piece of paper the table, sit by yourself. And that's what I did. And guess what happened? My table became a table people started sitting at because a whole bunch of people in that lunchroom felt exactly like I did. I had a laundry list of things that I write down in this fix. So I write it down and fix it.
- [46:42]
Tom Bilyeu
Were there things that you look to for role models, people that you were, like, taking ideas from? Like, why pull your pants up if that's the popular style? Like, what was giving? Either you were the single most insightful person I've ever met, which, by the way, is entirely possible having listened to enough of your material, or, like, you had a treasure trove of People that gave you great ideas, even if they were like fictional or movie or you know, athletes or whatever.
- [47:10]
David Goggins
But it was funny, man. One movie I watched all the time was Rocky. Great choice, Rocky1. And I related to Rocky a lot because of kind of, you know, wanted a smart guy, just tried real hard. And the one scene that I related a lot of my life too, still to this day was rocky one, round 14. And this is where I got taken souls from. If you look at round 14 of Rocky 1, Apollo is beating the shit out of Rocky. Rocky falls down this corner. Mickey saying, stay down, stay down. Rocky didn't hear a fucking soul. Apollo after he knocked him down, turns around, hands in the air like I finally knocked down this animal, right? Apollo doesn't know it, but Rocky is getting up. Apollo turns around the second Rocky gets up and Apollo looks at Rocky and Apollo looks at him with a look of like, Rocky just took his soul. He. Apollo shakes his head and Rocky has his gloves and he motions towards Apollo. Come on. I'm still here. And this song comes on that I played. So when I brought the Ginsburg of Royals records, it took me 17 hours to do 4030 pull ups. I listened to one song for 17 hours, 2 minutes and 17 seconds. I listened to that song for 17 hours non stop on repeat. So the image in my mind of a man was not one that had earrings, sagged his pants. I had this image in my head and I was going to fulfill that. And I didn't do any trends. I stopped trending. I stopped being this guy who, whatever was new, fuck it, that's not what I believe in. I'm doing this, this is what I want to be. This is what I'm going to be.
- [49:14]
Tom Bilyeu
So it's incredible. How do you experience beauty and joy in your life? What situations do you put yourself in? What makes you laugh? What's the fun stuff for you?
- [49:29]
David Goggins
It's funny you say that. I just retired from the military November 2015. And I was going and going and going and going and I never really. I was a happy guy. But I'm never in the moment of like sitting back and I want to travel here to have fun or do this or do that. I've never been that person. But the first time I really got a chance to experience true happiness and true peace was I was like, so what I did to myself to become who I am today, it takes a great toll on your body. So I believe God gave me time to rest and he took me out of commission. Not even the mind of Goggins could get me back up. So I had about a good six, seven months where I was out. And when I was out, I had time to reflect on all I had accomplished. And that was the first time in my life where I sat back and said, wow. Because only I. I may be telling you some of the story. I know the exact truth of how brutal my life was and how I shouldn't be on this show today and how the mind and how beautiful it is. So what brings me joy and happiness is knowing how beautiful the mind is. And I'm one of the few people that didn't read about it, didn't experience it through some. Some drug. I got to experience the beauty of true fucking willpower. True. Fuck you. I'm going to fail. I'm going to fucking fail. I'm going to fucking fail. I'm going to fucking fail and I will succeed. Just me talking about that gives me a feeling I know what I did. And I don't need to travel somewhere or to have this or have that. I have it all here in my mind. The beauty is remembering this young, dumb, what people call nigger is now where I'm at today. And that is when you finally get to that point. For me, it's forever lasting peace. I do need. I could die right now on this show and I'll be happy, ma'. Am. So that's. That's my happiness is my reflection on the suffering of my journey. Knowing I never quit, nor was I guided by anybody on this earth. I was guided by something much more powerful. And I listened and I chose the path of most resistance. Talent not required.
- [52:11]
Tom Bilyeu
I love that you've said that you live the life of a monk. What is. What does that mean? What does that look like? Why do you do that?
- [52:18]
David Goggins
So I stretch out every day for at least two hours. I don't drink, I don't go out. My regimen is I wake up, have oatmeal, run, come back, hit the weights. I'm a big sports guy. I don't leave the house, if at all. But to do stuff like this, and I stress out at nighttime. I find people that I trust, which is a very small group of people, people who are honest and true to me, people who will die for me and I'll die for them, which is a small sure. And everybody else, man, you know, do you. And I say to myself, and I let you, do you. I don't judge people, I don't criticize you. You want to be a douchebag and be an ass and not love this country do everyone do. I don't care, man. I fought for this country for you to do you. And I am all about you doing you. Because I'm going to do me and I'm gonna do me until I'm fucking dead. And I believe I, I earned the right. A lot of people haven't earned the right. Just because you live in this country, I mean, you earn the right, you gotta, you gotta live a little bit. Live and then have something to say or shut the up, you know?
- [53:28]
Tom Bilyeu
So if you had, this may be impossible to answer, but if you had that same kid from earlier, he wants to take that first step, you want him to go experience some life, what one specific thing would you tell him to go do?
- [53:40]
David Goggins
I First ask the kid, who are you at the core of your soul. And if he can can't answer that question, our conversation's over. I can't say shit to him, right? If you don't know who you are, if you don't know who you are, I can't tell you who you are.
- [53:56]
Tom Bilyeu
What's the next phase of your life look like? I, I. You can't imagine how intrigued I am to watch you over the next five to ten years.
- [54:05]
David Goggins
Well, honestly, I've, I'm blessed enough to have survived the life I lived and to come out the other side with a bunch of knowledge. So hopefully I can help people that believe that they're much less than what they truly are. Help them find greatness in themselves. And Greatness isn't running 200 miles at a time or doing 4,000 pips or being a seal. Greatness is whatever the hell you dreamed of in your own mind. You gotta first see it. You gotta first create this vision in your mind. And then that's when I come into play. Once you create this vision in your mind, it's how am I gonna get there now? And that's when I come into play. But first you gotta create your own vision. And it's not external. It's the vision created is inside of you. So until you create that, I'm nobody to you.
- [54:57]
Tom Bilyeu
Are you writing a book?
- [54:59]
David Goggins
I'm slowly writing a book right now. It's taking me four or five years because I have so many things to talk about. It's going to be probably several books, but the first book will probably be about my life story, how I came up, and a few lessons learned along the way. But, you know, I have so much to talk about, so much to say just to give people a lot More than hope.
- [55:22]
Tom Bilyeu
So, all right, before my last question, where can these guys find you?
- [55:26]
David Goggins
Online, davidgoggins.com, you know, Instagram is David Goggins or Facebook's David Goggins avid Goggins. You know, you'll find me. Go on there, look for David Goggins.
- [55:38]
Tom Bilyeu
Google me, they will find you. There's so much amazing stuff on you. All right, so last question. What is the impact that you want to have on the world?
- [55:47]
David Goggins
The impact I want to have on the world is. It's a great question, man. And it's a question that I've been asked many times and having several answers for it. But the biggest one is we are all great. No matter if you think you're dumb, no matter if you think you're fat, no matter if you are fat, no matter if you've been bullied or no matter if you just got back from Iraq or Afghanistan and you have no legs or your arms or whatever, man, we all have greatness. It just, you got to find the courage, you got to find the courage to put your Bose headphones on and silence the noise out of this world. And to find it and to find it because it's out there. But it's going to take hard work, courage, self discipline. It's going to take all the non cognitive skills, all the non cognitive skills to be great. You know, smart is good. All this stuff is good. That's all cognitive. It's a non cognitive skills that sets you apart from everybody else and, and that's what it's all about. Oh, man.
- [56:53]
Tom Bilyeu
David, thank you so much for coming on the show, man. That is incredible, guys. This is one of those times where as I was researching him, I literally felt like I should be doing this in a bucket of ice water or something. And I actually only mean that sort of tongue in cheek. I fasted through most of my prep because it felt right to put myself in a more difficult situation while I was doing that. It really makes me want to find more ways to go through hardship. And that's one of the things I really hope you guys take away from him, is how you can totally create yourself. And I experienced him in reverse. So I saw all of the amazing things that he had done, all of the races that he had won, going through hell week three times, the succeeding in three different branches of the military, nobody ever doing that before, the pull up record, all of it. And then found out that he had struggled through everything. And you realize how insidiously and how quietly the idea that Somebody is just better than you. They're more genetically gifted than you. Slips into your mind as a way of letting you off the hook, not as a way of making them more extraordinary, but you make them extraordinary as a way of letting you off the hook. And so hearing all the things that he had to go through, and one thing that didn't even come up in the show, he did most of the amazing endurance stuff before he had his heart fixed so his heart was literally existing at 60% capacity. He still did all of that. This is a man who peed blood and got up and kept running for 30 more miles. If that kind of thing doesn't inspire you to look inward and to really take control of your own story, to realize that you can sculpt yourself into anything you want, it doesn't have to be Goggins. But to see in that the power of both beauty and rage. To see in that the malleability of the human spirit. To see in that the power of the human spirit to turn you into anyone that you want to become. That is this man's story, and I hope that you guys heard it. There were so many incredible things, so many times that I got the chills, so many times that I saw another tool that I could take and use in my own life. And I hope you guys got that much out of it as I did. All right, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.
- [59:11]
David Goggins
Hey, everybody.
- [59:11]
Tom Bilyeu
Thanks so much for joining us for another episode of Impact Theory. If this content is adding value to your life, our one ask is that you go to itunes and stitcher and rate and review. Not only does that help us build this community, which at the end of the day, is all we care about, but it also helps us get even more amazing guests on here to share their knowledge with all of us. Thank you guys so much for being a part of this community. And until next time, be legendary, my friends.