How to Spot Billion-Dollar Opportunities | Marc Lore (Archived Episode)

Summary

Impact Theory Podcast with Tom Bilyeu

Episode: How to Spot Billion-Dollar Opportunities | Marc Lore (Archived Episode)

Date: November 28, 2024
Guest: Marc Lore, Serial Entrepreneur (Co-Founder of Diapers.com, Jet.com, former CEO Walmart E-Commerce)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the mind and methods of Marc Lore, one of the few entrepreneurs to repeatedly scale and sell billion-dollar companies. Through an engaging conversation with Tom Bilyeu, Marc reveals how to cultivate an unstoppable drive, make smart hiring decisions, spot overlooked opportunities, and build teams capable of disrupting massive industries. With practical wisdom, personal stories, and actionable frameworks, the discussion offers indispensable insight for aspiring founders and business leaders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The "Billions or Body Bags" Mindset (02:46–06:38)

• Relentless Commitment:
  Marc attributes his repeated success to his willingness to put everything on the line (“Billions or body bags”), treating each venture with a life-or-death level of intensity.
  • Quote: “You have to be willing to go all the way.” — Marc Lore (03:14)
• Creating Urgency:
  For each company, Marc engineered situations where it “can’t not work” by investing his own savings or friends’ and family’s money, fueling his drive with personal accountability.
• Handling Pressure:
  For Marc, the pressure to succeed unlocked abilities he didn’t know he had, pushing him to give 100% without overthinking possible failure.

Internal Drive & Aggression in Entrepreneurship (06:38–08:24)

• Aggression vs. Sustained Effort:
  Neither Marc nor Tom considers themselves naturally aggressive; instead, they harness sustained, all-out effort in pursuit of ambitious goals.
  • Analogy: “You basically just bike as hard and as fast as you can…” — Marc Lore (07:43)

Hiring & Team-Building Philosophy (08:24–11:20)

• Missionaries, Not Mercenaries:
  Marc seeks team members driven by purpose and impact, not just money. He emphasizes empowerment, transparency, and trust.
  • Quote: “Find people that really believe in it and want to make a contribution and be a part of something bigger than themselves…” — Marc Lore (08:33).
• Key Traits for Hiring (“SPA-TACK”):
  • Smart
  • Passionate
  • Optimistic
  • Tenacious
  • Adaptable
  • Kind
  • Empathetic
• Smart Interviewing:
  Lore avoids traditional prep questions, instead presenting unpreparable scenarios (e.g., “How much would I have to pay you to walk backwards for a week and not explain?”) to observe character and thought process.

Risk, Failure, and Adaptability (14:46–16:19; 17:19–22:39)

• Comfort with Risk:
  Marc notes that those who excel academically often avoid major risk, preferring safe outcomes. Aspiring disruptors must embrace low-probability, high-reward bets, and have a high tolerance for failure.
  • Quote: “That’s the difference between an entrepreneur and not — somebody who’s comfortable with a low probability of success with a huge outcome.” (15:48)
• Formative Stories:
  An anecdote about applying to Wharton (“non-zero probability”) illustrates Marc’s belief that outsized opportunities often lie where most see only near-zero odds.

Nature vs. Nurture in Ambition (22:39–24:58)

• Malleability of Mindset:
  Marc believes that while some entrepreneurial traits are shaped by upbringing, mindsets can be shifted with the right influence and practice.
• Parenting & Core Values:
  The overriding value Marc instilled in his children is kindness and empathy, carried both through words and example.

From Corporate to Entrepreneurial Leap (24:58–27:51)

• Leaving Banking for Startups:
  Despite rapid career advancement in finance, Marc was unfulfilled, recognizing an “incredible pull” back to entrepreneurship. His boss’s readiness to invest in him, even sight unseen, underscored invaluable lessons in credibility and conviction.

The Power of Conviction & Execution (27:51–33:04)

• Ownership & Accountability:
  Ownership of an idea and telling the world about it creates accountability and momentum. Marc encourages would-be founders to “take friends and family money” for added motivation, if comfortable.
• Dealing with Doubters:
  Industry skepticism (e.g., Diapers.com logistics) actually motivates Marc, indicating untapped potential when others dismiss a concept as unworkable.
  • Quote: “Every time somebody says something can’t be done, there’s a part of me that gets a little bit excited...” (33:04)

Barriers to Entrepreneurship & Overcoming Them (35:02–37:15)

• Overvaluing Ideas:
  Marc cautions that aspiring founders often wait for the “perfect” novel idea, when in reality, execution in large, existing markets beats novelty.
• Avoiding Paralysis:
  Entrepreneurs can get bogged down by overwhelming themselves with too many distant problems. Instead: “Ask, what’s the biggest step I can take today?”

Leadership: Empathy and Beyond (38:50–43:00)

• Empathy as Core Leadership Trait:
  Marc identifies empathy as the single most important quality for leaders, fostering a sense of safety, belonging, and high performance.
  • Quote: “If I had to pick one trait of a leader, it would be empathy.” (38:56)
• VCP Framework:
  Effective leaders should focus on:
  • Vision: Constantly shaping and articulating direction
  • Capital: Raising resources through compelling vision
  • People: Building and empowering high-performing teams

Company Core Values & Culture (43:00–44:45)

• Jet.com’s Three Core Values:
  • Trust
  • Transparency
  • Fairness
• Stick to Three:
  Marc advises against diluting values lists; three or fewer is optimal for clarity and impact.

Raising Capital – The Ground Truth (44:45–47:22)

• The Grind of Fundraising:
  Success comes from sheer number of pitches—not connections. Marc gave 200 pitches, resulting in 60 investors.
• Personal Skin in the Game:
  Investors were swayed by Marc’s dedication—he invested his entire savings ($390,000) into his own business.
  • Memorable Moment: Investor reaction to Marc’s $390K investment: “Why didn’t you round to $400K?” — “I only have $390K.”
• Tactical Advice:
  “Find one investor, get introductions to more, and repeat—the network grows from there.”

The Ultimate Impact (47:48–48:24)

• Life’s Impact:
  Marc’s true goal is to “give more than I take” and to spread empathy and kindness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• 03:14 — Marc Lore: “You have to be willing to go all the way.”
• 08:33 — Marc Lore: “Find people that really believe in it and want to make a contribution and be a part of something bigger than themselves…”
• 15:48 — Marc Lore: “That’s the difference between an entrepreneur and not — somebody who’s comfortable with a low probability of success with a huge outcome.”
• 17:29–20:17 — Marc Lore: Story of applying to Wharton after the deadline, learning the value of taking non-zero-probability shots.
• 22:47 — Marc Lore: “You need to go and do big things to be loved basically in the world.”
• 33:04 — Marc Lore: “Every time somebody says something can’t be done, there’s a part of me that gets a little bit excited...”
• 38:56 — Marc Lore: “If I had to pick one trait of a leader, it would be empathy.”
• 44:58 — Marc Lore: “The thing that put a lot of those 60 people [investors] over was the fact that they saw the passion that I had for the idea and the commitment I was making, not only for quitting my job, but I invested $390,000 into the business.”
• 47:53 — Marc Lore: “I just try and... be empathetic and give back and... give more than I take. And I think that’s the impact I want to make.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:46 — Introduction to relentless entrepreneurial commitment (“Billions or body bags”)
• 08:24 — Empowerment, self-motivation, team culture
• 11:20 — Marc’s unconventional interview techniques
• 14:46 — Perspective on risk and learning to fail
• 17:29 — The “non-zero probability” lesson and college story
• 24:58 — Transition from corporate to startup life
• 27:51 — The conviction that inspires investors
• 33:04 — Thriving off doubt and skepticism
• 38:50 — Empathy as a core leadership trait
• 43:00 — Core values in building company culture
• 44:45 — Fundraising tips and personal investment
• 47:53 — Marc’s ultimate impact and legacy

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Episode Takeaways

• Execution Matters More Than Ideas:
  Breakthrough businesses are built on relentless execution, not just novelty.
• Hire for Character, Train for Skill:
  Seek “missionaries” who embody your core values — passion and purpose beat experience.
• Embrace Risk and Learn from Failure:
  Every major opportunity starts where others see impossible odds.
• Empower and Trust Your People:
  Transparency, trust, and fair treatment are the foundation of high-performing teams.
• Always Take the Shot:
  The biggest wins often come from chances everyone else ignores.

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For more from Marc Lore, follow his insights on LinkedIn, where he posts weekly ideas for aspiring entrepreneurs and leaders.

Transcript

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You're listening to Impact Theory.

[Mark Lorey]

Impact Theory.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Impact Theory. Impact Theory.

[Mark Lorey]

Impact baby.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Impact Theory. Today's guest is a profoundly successful serial entrepreneur who has gone head to head with some of the largest companies on the planet and and won. Fortune magazine named him one of the smartest people in technology. And given his unprecedented string of successes, it is not hard to understand why. He's founded and sold four massively disruptive companies, including the Pit, which challenged online giant ebay and had a successful exit just two years after beginning. He also co founded Diapers.com destroying the myth that people would never buy diapers online and establishing it as such a powerful player in the industry that it was acquired by Amazon for a staggering $550 million. And most recently, he founded Jet.com, which proved that it is possible to compete directly with the juggernaut Amazon and build an enormous business in the process. Under his leadership, Jet.com raced at breakneck speed to a billion dollars in sales and subsequently sold to Walmart for a dizzying $3.3 billion dollars again after just two years in business. Now the CEO of Walmart E Commerce, this Wharton Business School grad is once again demonstrating that the right idea executed well can thrive against any competitor. So please help me in welcoming the man Ernst and Young named regional entrepreneur of the Year. The former wannabe farmer and now storied entrepreneur, Mark Lori. Hey, welcome man. Yeah, thanks. Good to have you on the show.

[Mark Lorey]

Thank you. Great to be here.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And dude, the fact that you did it once already, amazing. To do it two, three, four times, is pretty crazy. What is it that you understand that makes you so successful that you think other people are missing?

[Mark Lorey]

I don't know it's necessarily other people are missing it. I'm willing to do whatever it takes, like create a situation where it feels like life or death.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Billions or body bags?

[Mark Lorey]

Billions or body bags? Yeah. No, but in all seriousness, that I think is the distinguishing characteristic because all four of the businesses, they all turned out to be successes. But if I didn't put it into that extra gear, I think none of them would have made it. I really think that you have to be willing to go all the way.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How do you pull that off, though? The first time I get it, because it really is. I know you left the banking, you didn't exactly have a safety net. And so the first one really is sort of billions of body bags. But after that, I mean, you've had some huge wins. How do you recapture that?

[Mark Lorey]

I always figured out a way to put myself in a position where it can't not work. And so, you know, the first one, it was not only quitting, but I also put every dollar in my bank account into that first company.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Did you have kids at that point?

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah. So what do you tell people that just had a kid?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Like the number of people that want to be entrepreneurs that come up to me and they say, look, I've got this litany of things, you know, I'm married, I have kids, I can't really do this. How did you position yourself financially and emotionally to pull that one off?

[Mark Lorey]

I just convinced myself that I would do this for a year or two, give it a real go.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Because you had that much saved up or.

[Mark Lorey]

The idea was to take everything I saved, invest it in the company, take a salary, but I still needed to raise capital to continue on. And so I hope that I'd be able to do that. And if I was able to, then I'd be able to sustain. Worst case, wasn't able to raise money, had no more money in savings and had to go back into the workforce. Did I think that I can get back in? Like, was I, you know, past the point where of no return? And I thought, no, you know, I'm seven years into my career. Worst case, I can go back and get a. Get a normal job again. But it was. That was too much of a safety net. You could always go back. It was investing every penny of savings into the business that was the real catalyst for making sure that it worked. And then in the subsequent business, it was less about the money that was at risk and more friends and family money. So every relative, every friend, everybody I knew pretty much had a stake in the startup. And I just didn't want to disappoint all the people that I love and care about, you know, by. So that drove me more than anything in that moment.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So I find that pressure like that can be powerful for people or can be really destructive. Do you think about framing it in a certain way that makes it powerful for you? Like, are you sitting there putting actual words behind the idea, or is it just this overwhelming sense of, like, yo, I can't fuck this up.

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah, it just brings out abilities you didn't know you had, basically. I mean, just knowing that you need to, like, go all in here and do everything you possibly can and work as hard as possible, you know, to make it happen. It wasn't an anxiety like, oh, I can't fail, I can't. It wasn't like that. It was more just. It's like you don't really think about it. You just go. It's sort of. You know, if something were to happen in the moment, you know, that was life threatening, you'd react in a certain way that you needed to react without having to think about it. That's sort of the way it is.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Do you consider yourself an aggressive person?

[Mark Lorey]

No.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's interesting. I'm not aggressive either, not by nature. But I have found in business, it is like. So when I think about that story of you really backing yourself against the wall or having your friends and family's money in the business, and you're like, I really don't want to mess this up. For me to tap into the aggression, which is. That's what I had to learn. So for me to go from an employee to an entrepreneur, it was a game of learning to be aggressive. It was being bold, striking. Even if I was the youngest person or the least educated, that I had to be able to step up to the plate, to learn to try something, to be willing to fail, all that. So for me, I really had to cultivate an aggressiveness about myself to be able to do that. So taking things like family money or whatever, which is not my story, but things like that, and saying, all right, look, like actually talking to myself, look, man, you're not going to fuck this up. You're not going to let these people down. You're going to do it, but it's not going to weaken you. Like, this is going to make you stronger. You got this. Stay focused. Do you have an internal dialogue like that, or do you have a different approach to it?

[Mark Lorey]

I didn't really think about it day to day. It was more just. I can imagine if it were the equivalent the analogy of being in some sort of bike race or marathon or something and you basically just bike as hard and as fast as you can for as long as your body will allow you to do it. It's like just push yourself so that when you get across the finish line you're like, I just couldn't have gone any faster on this day. Right. It's just everything I had went into it. And so once you put yourself kind of into that gear, you're in that gear, you're not really thinking about it. I'm just running as hard as I possibly can to leave nothing on the table.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How do you instill that in your teams or do you?

[Mark Lorey]

I look to hire people that are self motivated, who are more missionary than mercenary. So it's not about.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What do you mean by that?

[Mark Lorey]

I mean the primary motivation is not money. The primary motivation is to make an impact on the world. And the company has a mission, it's got a vision, it's typically bold and you want to find people that really believe in it and want to make a contribution and be a part of something bigger than themselves and they're willing to work hard at it. And yes, money will come and they want money, but it's like secondary. Some people like having worked in banking for seven years is very different. It's I'll do whatever you want, just pay me. And so find people that are really self motivated, get them in the right position and then empower them, give them all the information, be transparent, trust them and then just empower them to run and, and not micromanage or get in their way. And I find you have incredible leverage when you have great people and you kind of let them do their thing.

[Tom Bilyeu]

If you had to give a few key characteristics to what makes somebody great. So one thing I'll say is very difficult is hiring. Especially in a hyper growth company you're having to hire so fast. What are some key elements that you look for? Is it like personality traits? Do you look for different personality traits for different jobs? Like how do you go about that?

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah, I've learned so many lessons along the way and where I come out is, and I see this happen a lot of startups you'll be looking for a certain position. Like I need a supply chain person to do X and the initial, you start from this place of trying to find someone that's done that before, the chances of find somebody that's actually done it before, that's in the top sort of 10% for that job and get that person to quit their job and, and come work and take the risk of a startup. I found that that's too hard, too much of a unicorn. And certainly like you said, if you're hiring lots of people, you're not gonna get lots of people like that. So then does that mean you just go after mediocre people? How do you solve the problem? What I've done is I say, okay, find the smartest person I can that exhibits the traits that I look to hire for, you know, and the traits would be, I use the spa tack, which is smart, passionate, optimistic, tenacious, adaptable, kind and empathetic. And those are sort of the traits that I look for. And the entire interview process is trying to make sure that people align to those traits. Because I find that those people are more missionary, they are more self motivated, they want to be empowered, they want to do big things. And if you find great people like that, after six months or 12 months or 24 months, they wind up becoming some of the top people in their field because they learn it and they've got all these other traits there. So that's what I found.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I am desperate to know what your interview process looks like. How the hell in an interview do you figure out spa tech? Spa tech?

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So how do you suss that out? What are some key questions? Do you have them walk in and it's amazed, like, how do you figure out a job?

[Mark Lorey]

Okay, here's the secret to interviewing, for me at least is never to ask a question that somebody could have already prepared in advance. Okay. So that's kind of levels the playing field. So nothing like, what's your strength? What's your weakness? Tell me about some great thing you've done. A lot of that is just people that prepare and they have good answers. And some people have mentors or other people that have been through it and say, hey, listen, let's prepare, let's go through it. I do it with my daughter. My daughter had an interview. I'm like, okay, we're gonna like prepare for this. There you go. Give me your strength. Give me your weak. You know, I went through the whole thing. She, she wanted an interview. She nailed it. It was like the same questions. I kind of don't like that. I don't think you could, in an hour, which is typical length of an interview, suss out whether somebody has these traits. If you're just asking, sort of. The other thing that happens too, I find, is that there's also like an unconscious bias toward people that do have more connections. Do have parents that have kind of been there, done that before. You know, I was the first person in my family to go to college. Very different than my daughters now. And so to avoid that unconscious bias and also to make sure that you take level playing field, I ask questions that basically you couldn't prepare for and really trying to open people up to see. Do you have any examples? Yeah, I'll give you a great example. So one that I ask is, what's the minimum amount of money that you would take to walk backwards everywhere you go for a week? Can't tell anybody why you're doing it. If they ask you to say, sorry, I can't tell you. You have to go to work, you have to go out on the weekends. It has to be a normal week. Backwards, everywhere. The only thing I'll do is I'll guarantee your safety. And it's after tax dollars, what's the minimum amount of money that you would actually take? Like, if I wrote you a check right now, you would go and do it. But the minimum. People will come up with numbers, and I'll just press them. I'll say, somebody says, you know, I would do it for five grand. I'm like, I don't believe you do it for five grand. No, this has to be actual, you know. Yeah, I would. I would. And then I go and leave the room and come back with a check, start writing it out, and like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, I didn't know you would actually. I said, I gave you. I told you, I told you. You know, so basically just having the discussion like, this is good. I ask people questions like, if you could only be one of the two, what would you be? You'd be known to be very nice but not very smart or very smart and not very nice. You can only pick one. And I find it's kind of interesting. Some people are like, oh, of course. I can never not be nice to people. So even though I don't want to be smart, I'll pick very nice and not that smart. And other people, like, there's no way I'm going to be not smart. And it's kind of interesting. It's probably like. I'd say it's probably 60, 40 asking

[Tom Bilyeu]

that question, which is the 60.

[Mark Lorey]

60 is nice. And I don't know how many people lying or just think that's what I want to hear, but probably 60 will say they're nice. And that's one of the things I'm looking for. I definitely want people given the choice to prioritize being nice over being smart. It's more just to get people opening up, get them talking about real things and seeing how they problem solve, how they approach situations.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How do you deal with employees that have a real different tolerance for risk when you're asking them to take a big swing or to take a chance with you on a new business?

[Mark Lorey]

I think it's really tough to ask people that are already in the organization that haven't been vetted through a process of are you comfortable taking risk? And ask them to take risks. No, it doesn't work. You don't want somebody to do something that's contradictory to their nature. You have to find the right people up front. That's why in a startup you have a clean slate. I found something really interesting is that people that have typically gone to really good schools and done really well grade wise, they're used to getting as on everything, have a much harder time taking risk because they just, they look at something that has a low probability of success and say, well, why would I do that? I'm used to getting A's and that's 95%. So why would I do something that has 20%? Well, because the outcome is 200x or 500x. That's why you do it. But a lot of people just can't get comfortable with that. I think that's the difference between an entrepreneur and not somebody who's comfortable with a low probability of success with a huge outcome. And then you go after it and you're okay failing. I failed so many times as a kid, whether it be academically or otherwise, that I was so comfortable with failing that it was not even a concept, you know, it just meant that combined with just being chill generally about things not working out, the combination of that allowed me to like freely just take risk without any regard for like maybe failing.

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[Tom Bilyeu]

I love the story that you have about applying to college and the non zero probability. I thought that was really, really a powerful story. Walk us through that.

[Mark Lorey]

Okay. Yeah. So, you know, I didn't have good grades in high school. I really didn't. It was. This is funny. I tell people this, and nobody believes this story, but it was sophomore year in high school. Remember walking down sort of the corridor and somebody's like, hey, where are you gonna go to college? Or, what are you thinking about? I said, oh, I'm probably just gonna go to Harvard. And they said, harvard? Like, you can't. You're not gonna get in Harvard. And I was like, what do you mean? Don't you just, like, kind of send your thing in and pay and go? Like, no, you have to actually apply and they have to accept you. That was sophomore year in high school, is when I learned that. Which is crazy these days because I've been talking to my daughters since they were like, you know, this yay big about college. So. But, yeah, so I didn't really know. So I didn't. I wasn't applying myself in school, didn't have good grades, and my dad had asked me. This is. I did all the applying myself, went to the colleges myself. Parents didn't know what was going on. And then after the deadline, this is like, in January, February. The deadline was like, November, December, applying to college. And my dad said, hey, how's it going? How's the college stuff coming? Where are you going to apply? I said, oh, I already did. I applied. I'm done. He's like, oh, you applied already? Did you apply to Wharton? Because he knew that I knew that that was. I talked about that business school, and I wanted to do business and stuff. Like, oh, no, I didn't apply to Wharton. There's no way I could have gotten in. And he said, oh, really? There's no way you could have gotten in? Zero. It's zero. And I said, well, I don't know if it's zero. It's pretty close to zero, though. And I said, there's a lot of essays and all this stuff. He's like, oh, so it's work? You didn't want to do the work? I said, no, I'm fine to do the work. It's just, it's basically my guidance counselor told me I can't get in. Objectively, I don't think I can get in. So, you know, I didn't apply. He's like, all right. And he was looking at me and I'm like, alright, you're right, dad, I'm gonna apply. You know, and this was after the deadline. So this is like two months later. I went, did all the essays, did the whole application, did everything, sent it in. I never forget, it was like May when you sort of got the letter, went out to the mailbox. I saw it, it said, you know, Wharton School. I ran in, I opened it up. Yeah, I got rejected. But it really taught me a great lesson because when I was opening that envelope, it really felt non zero to me. Even though it was like I had no chance of getting in. And it was after the fact, you know, and it probably was as close to zero as anything could possibly get. But I just felt like happy that I went through the process. Nothing had changed. It was still the same probability. But I was really happy. I went through the process and took a shot and I was actually. I had in it bat that letter that chance that it could. There's a possibility it could have. I could have said accepted, although it's

[Tom Bilyeu]

as close as you are.

[Mark Lorey]

And so I've just taken that in life in general, it's like I'm not gonna accept that it can't be done unless somebody proves it's a zero probability. And often the case, you can't prove it's zero. There's always some non zero probability. And it's typically the stuff that has that's really close to non zero, nobody else is touching. That's where the big opportunities are.

[Tom Bilyeu]

When I heard that story, man, I was really blown away. Now, of course I know the punchline of your life is that it all works out okay. So hearing that story after seeing what you go on to do with your life and really thinking, wow, the vast majority of humanity, dude, when they get that letter and they're rejected, they're like, see dad, I told you I never should have wasted my time. And the fact that you take that lesson to be in that moment, I held the envelope, it went from when I didn't even apply, I knew guaranteed I wasn't getting in to now there's actually a shot. And so I'm going to pursue that in the future that I'm actually going to try things. I think that's really powerful and I want to tie this back to Something you said earlier. So part of what you look for for people is adaptability. You also talked about like you're sort of, some people have a personality this way, some are that way and don't put people against their nature. So how much of that, like I want to believe, literally my life is predicated on the belief that someone watching this right now, hearing you tell that story, they will now forever think the way that you think about non zero probabilities and they will go on to do something that other people wouldn't do. They weren't born that way. They encountered that information and they chose to adopt it. How adaptable do you think we are? Can you teach that to somebody? Like, could you teach that to your children? Or is that like you either have it or you don't?

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. I think you can definitely be better at it, but I do think there's something, something that you're not necessarily born with, but that you're raised with. So after, what is it, 18 years, basically, you know, at home with parents and the friends that you surround yourself with, you're definitely molded in a certain way. And I think it's tough to change it dramatically after that. You can certainly push it one way or the other. But you know, my starting point was way out there, just, just given the way I was raised, which was pretty hands off.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What did your parents teach you? Was it just the freedom to learn on your own that was powerful, or did they give you certain things that have really carried through?

[Mark Lorey]

I think different things from different parent? I think my dad was pretty sort of non present and to get his attention, which was not that frequent, you'd have to do something pretty spectacular, which is probably one of the driving forces to, to this mentality like you need to go and do big things to be loved basically in the world. And so that sort of has been an internal drive and motivator that I didn't really know and appreciate until just recently. You start to think through stuff in your life and why am I this way? Why does this make me happy? Why am I driven to do this? And then you kind of always, if you think about it long enough, you tie back to something in childhood that's sort of the catalyst. And so I don't know what it would have been like without that. And I coupled that and I could have gone the other way, I guess, and just been like a bum and just forget it. And I went this other way. And I think on my mom's Side, I think there was such incredible empathy and caring and kindness on this side, and that the coupling allowed me to achieve what I had set out to do.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How do you think of that with raising your own kids?

[Mark Lorey]

I think the key thing that I really always try to instill is the sense of caring, kindness, and empathy. And you can't pick too many things as, you know, like, it's just kids are not gonna react. But if there's one thing and you want to keep hammering it, there's a good chance that that could sink in. And I think that's kind of how we approached it. It's sort of like, let's. Let's go with the core. Be good to people, treat people as you want to be treated. Be empathetic, be kind, and just drill that into them. And not only drill it into them, but by example as well, and see that. And I think they have turned out to be very kind, empathetic. And that at the core, I feel good. There's other things that you'd say as a parent, oh, well, I wish there'd be more like this and more like that. But at the end of the day, if. If you've got the nucleus of being kind and good, then everything else is okay. And so I would just say you

[Tom Bilyeu]

have to pick something when you're in banking. So you're following a relatively typical path for somebody who's ultra ambitious. I won't say it's just a typical path, but for somebody who's really got some drive and ambition, I get why you went into that. What was the epiphany that made you decide that that wasn't for you? When did you know that leaving was the right thing? And how do you structure your life now to make sure you never go back to the way that you felt when you were banking?

[Mark Lorey]

Okay, sure. Well, I mean, just starting out. So in grammar school, high school, I started every business that a kid could start. You know, newspapers, car waxing, lawn mowing, baseball cards, recycling, lemonade stands, like, anything. And so I was quite entrepreneurial as a kid, but there wasn't really any thought to, like, go to work for a startup. That really wasn't the case. I graduated high school in 89 and college in 93. It just. That wasn't really a thing until the late 90s, really. And so I, for some reason, got interested in stocks in, like, 10 years old and then started reading books on derivatives and stock options when I was like, in seventh grade, eighth grade, and I was really into it and went To Bucknell. Studied finance, knew I wanted to work with stocks, went to work in banking. And seven years into it, I had gone pretty far pretty fast. Cause I was willing to work as hard as it took to kind of move up. I was executive vice president, chief risk officer, the youngest in the bank's history, kind of thing. You know, it was like things were going really well, but I wasn't happy. And it really was interesting. I'm like, wow, this is as good as I possibly could have imagined doing, you know, six, seven years, out of. Out of college, making a ton of money, doing really well. But I wasn't fulfilled. I wasn't happy. And when I was really thinking about it, I realized that what I really missed was that sort of entrepreneurial kind of feeling that I had as a kid, you know, building something from nothing. And so, yeah, I had this incredible pull that just toured entrepreneurship and startup that got to the point where I just walked into my boss's office and said, I'm gonna quit and become an entrepreneur. He's like, that's really funny. And I'm like, no. He's like, oh, well, what's your idea? I said, well, I don't have an idea yet. But he said, you're gonna quit this job making this amount of money? Didn't you just have a kid? Yeah. That's crazy. I said, yeah, well, I'm gonna do it. He said, well, you're serious. He said, well, if you're that serious, can I be your first investor? Can I put 50? I think it was 50 grand. He said, and I didn't know anybody with money. And so that was the seed. He introduced me to two people. I met with those two people. They introduced me to a couple of people, and I wound up. I met with, like, 200 angel people, you know, and got 60 investors.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I have to stop you there, because people at home, if they're not having a seizure right now, and desperate for me to ask the question that I'm about to ask, and they're not paying attention, so. So, all right. You're an insanely hard worker, I'll give you that. But for a guy, sight unseen, to say you're quitting, you have a kid, that's crazy. That's so risky. He's a banker, so he's not exactly Captain Risk. And for him to go, I want. Without knowing what you're gonna do, I want to invest $50,000 in you. Which was, I'm assuming, a very smart bet on his part. So what is it? So I Think everybody has something that they get early wins. And so I'll say, for me, it was verbal ability. Now, I've put an inordinate amount, decades of practice into making it useful, but I definitely got disproportionate results out of every amount of energy that I put in. Is there something that he saw in you? Like, yo, this guy is so good at finance, I know he'll never fuck up a business on that side. Or was it something else? He knew you were a natural born leader. Like, what, what was it that he was banking on at that point?

[Mark Lorey]

I don't know exactly, but I would think it's. He probably saw a little bit of what I talked about before, which is, I won't let it fail. Like, I'll do whatever it takes. Billions of body bags. Billions of body bags. I'll do whatever it takes, you know, work as hard as necessary to make it work. And I think also I was just naturally really good at math, which was something that I was kind of known for, which translates into finance, which translates into other stuff.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So can we go into the billions of body bags thing for a second? First of all, I'm not a fan of burn the ships at the shore, but the do or die mentality to me is so intoxicating. I have it very much so. It's exactly the thing that I will say is because I don't think I'm particularly bright, I don't have any entrepreneurial skills whatsoever. When I started, didn't have a lemonade stand. But dude, when I fucking set my mind to something, that is it. And literally I'm going to see it through no matter what. All the success in the world, I've only sped up in terms of my drive, my ambition, speed, at which width I move. And I am so desperate to be able to package that up. To say magic fucking words to somebody, to give them that the power of desire so that they'll want things the way that I want things. Because it's not in a destructive way. Like, I'm not destroyed by it. You could take the wealth away, it wouldn't matter. That wouldn't phase me. It's that sense of like, dude, we have so little time here, so much ability, like potential that we can transform into real skills. Like, how do you infect people with that? That is one of the things, like I always tell people, if I could give somebody a gift, it would be the gift to have that desire the way that I desire.

[Mark Lorey]

I agree. That is everything. How do you drive? How do you build it, give it to someone, basically, yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Like, I want to believe it can be built. Right. Because I know it can't just be given. So I want to believe that there's a process. I think there is, but I'm always super curious.

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah. I mean, the only thing. The thing I've seen is, first of all, people need to feel an intense sense of ownership of their idea. So making sure that, you know, when somebody has an idea, you can help them mold it, but it's their idea, and they have to feel like they're accountable to it, to the idea, and then pushing them to go out there and tell the world, friends, family, everyone about their idea and what their vision is and what they hope to achieve. And it's amazing how infectious that can be when somebody gets out there and they start telling people like, wow, that's a really good idea, or, ooh, can you do that? Or, I don't think you can do that, Or. And you start. Whether somebody says you can't do it, or they say, wow, that sounds like an amazing idea. In either case, it's pretty motivating. I find the people that are scared to tell people about it because they feel like some sense of, like, now I'm kind of committed, or, you know, I've told all my friends about this big idea I'm gonna go do. So just getting somebody to go out there, it's kind of like if you want to work out, they say, you know, put your shorts, your T shirt, your shoes right next to the bed. Get out of bed and put them on. And then once you get them on, it's easy to go. It's similar kind of thing. It's like, once you have your idea, start telling everybody you know about this idea and how you're going to do it. And usually that kind of starts to snowball, and then people feel a sense of accountability to it. And then take friends and family money. Some people say, you know, I don't want to take friends and family money. It's like, why? Well, yeah. Cause it's kind of scary, right? That's always been a motivating factor, just knowing you've got. It's not only the money, but it's also hold you accountable. This is like, everybody, you know will know that this thing failed, and there'll be a monetary proof that it didn't work.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You said that you're equally motivated by people telling you that it will work or that it won't work. Literally, when I look every idea you've had has seemed like a terrible idea and yet you've turned it in, into these juggernauts. So one, how do you look at that and go, no, no, no, I see a path there. And then two, when people start telling you, especially in the early days when you did not have the track record to back it up, how did you deal with doubt? Other people like putting doubt on you.

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah, Well, I mean Diapers.com is a great example because it was sort of, I said, you know, my idea is pretty simple. We're going to sell diapers on the Internet and deliver them to people's homes so they could have convenient access to something that's a pain in the butt. And then I talk to people in the industry and they'd say, well, let me tell you why it hasn't been done. It hasn't been done because diapers are loss leaders for places like Walmart and Target and Big Box, so they don't make any money on it anyway. And then now you want to pay for shipping and you want to pay for fulfillment and they're heavy and by the way, wipes, that's basically shipping water. So there's no way to make money. And so, and every time somebody says something can't be done, there's also a part of me that gets a little bit excited because I'm like, okay, well then nobody else is going to do it. The big companies aren't going to do it. And then you kind of put that, juxtapose that against really big market opportunity. Because the follow up question I would always ask was, okay, fine, you're not going to make money, but will there be customer demand? Will people want diapers delivered to their door overnight at amazing prices? And everyone said, oh yeah, there's no arguing with that, people will love that. So I'm like, okay, so the demand is there, really big market can't make money. So then thinking about how to solve that, well, what if the diapers, the fulfillment, the shipping, all that was a loss leader online to basically sell that long tail with unlimited shelf space. So similar to brick and mortars, they use it as loss leader. You could afford to lose more money on diapers if you've got million skus to sell them with limited shelf space that you make money on. And once I got convicted on that, that made sense. And that penciled out, nothing was stopping me at that point. I didn't care what anyone said. And the more people said couldn't be done, the more fired up it got me.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So what do you Think stops would be entrepreneurs. So I'll say for me, it's boredom. Boredom kills more entrepreneurs than anything. They don't understand what's coming for them. But in your story, I hear something else, and I wonder if there's something that you.

[Mark Lorey]

What stops them after they've already started or from starting?

[Tom Bilyeu]

From starting or once they get going?

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah, I think from starting. And I know a lot of people that have ideas. First thing is people think the idea is not good enough, and they think the idea is way more important than it really is. And people try and find ideas that have never been done before, which usually result in niche little businesses. I challenge people all the time to say, it's not about the idea, it's about the execution. Find and pick any industry out there, there's a way to disrupt it. There's already a big market. If you could just figure out a way to do it a little bit better and execute well, you could make a nice return on capital. You could take anything, take pizza delivery or something and just say, great. We know people order pizza. They get it delivered. It's great. What's wrong with it? Oh, it's not hot. The quality is not great. All of the things, okay, I'm going to create this. It's going to be better quality, faster, whatever it is. Yeah, if you go and raise capital and execute, you'll make that work. It doesn't have to be anything super innovative. So I think that's what holds people back. I think once people get going, I think they spend too much time thinking about all the things that could go wrong and they get overwhelmed and it literally just paralyzes them. I'd always say, like, forget about all that stuff. Today is today. What's the biggest step you can take today toward your vision? Well, how can you make the most progress against the vision today? So I always push people to be really clear about the vision. And then. And then they take that step, and then it's the next day and they say, well, what? No, no, don't focus on that. What's the biggest step? And as you start lining up, five, six, seven, eight weeks, months in a row, you're like, wow, look back. Made some serious progress. And focus on, like, how far you've come and keep the vision in mind, but don't get caught up between today and the vision because you'll just. You'll spin out of control. I see that all the time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How do you deal with failure? Like, surely none of your plans are like, we're doing this no. Then you just always know.

[Mark Lorey]

I've so many, like I said before in my life, so many failure, you know, growing up and things. And the way to deal with it is not to dwell on it at all. Just. You just have to basically, as soon as you recognize, first of all, being objective about progress, so constantly reevaluating all the new information so you could basically say, here's the vision, and you start marching and information is coming at you every day. Competition, things, the market, the world, whatever. You need to take in that information and then kind of reassess constantly so you can be objective about making decisions. And if you get to a point where you realize what you thought was true a year ago or two years ago is not true anymore, given all this new information now, where do you need to be? And as soon as you recognize that being able to tell people I was wrong, forget that. I know I said that. That was when the information was this new information, new. We're going to pivot and then get everybody aligned around it, but willing to take that risk of looking stupid and basically just changing your mind. And sometimes that happens over a year or two years. Sometimes it could be months. You could be months and say, you know what? Wrong. Objectively, we've got some new information. Let's go in this direction. So I think you can't dwell. You just have to reassess and go. If you're thinking about the failure or feel bad even for a minute, that's just a minute of lost time going forward.

[Tom Bilyeu]

If someone wants to be a great leader, what do you think are the key traits that they should be developing?

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah, it's funny, I. I get asked this question a lot, and I thought about it a lot. If I had to pick one, and this usually surprises people, if I had to pick one trait of a leader, it would be empathy. For any business to be successful, most people would agree you need to have great people working in the business. You need those people to basically give everything the best they've got. You need to retain those people. They need to be happy. Like, if you really want to create a big sustainable business. And then it comes back to, well, what does it take for the ability to sort of recruit great people and then keep great people and keep them motivated? It's like, well, they want to be happy. They want to feel a part of something. Okay. Like, what drives someone's happiness? At the end of the day, when you kind of. When you really get into it, it's. People want to be understood. They want to be Heard they want to feel like that there's something bigger than just dollars and cents in business. And I think being empathetic is putting yourself in somebody's situation and being able to relate to how they feel about business situation, things outside of business, personal stuff. And I think that builds a lot of trust and respect and people willing to, to be more loyal and committed and willing to give the best that they've got when they feel. It's also a feeling of safety too. I think when people feel listened to, heard and understood, they feel safer. And a lot of times people don't give their best or do their best because they feel unsafe. Which brings to a whole other topic around, you know, just creating a inclusive work environment, which I think is super important. And I think empathy plays a big part of that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So going beyond empathy because I know some seriously empathetic people who are not good leaders. So I'll say that is necessary but not sufficient.

[Mark Lorey]

That's true.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What else are things that people should be working on if they want to lead?

[Mark Lorey]

I think entrepreneurs should be thinking about what I call VCP Vision Capital people at least 80% of the time. And I really focus probably even more than that percentage on those three things. It's constantly, you know, thinking, shaping, molding the vision and articulating it over and over and over so that everybody's crystal clear on where we're going. What's the North Star? You know, making sure that you set your org structures under the people bucket. Set your org structure in such a way that, that you can put people in spots where they've got end to end ownership. I don't like creating organizational structures where you don't really know who's responsible for what. So thinking about the org structure, getting that nailed, bringing in the very best people in each area is sort of the P part. And then making sure that you're able to go out and raise the capital, which involves selling your vision. A lot of entrepreneurship is about selling, selling the vision to investors, selling the vision to employees, and then packaging it all up. And I think good leaders are able to do VCP really well on the people part of it. The single most important thing outside of empathy, I would say is about empowerment. I would say especially in a startup where you're hiring fast and moving fast, you have to be able to empower people, which means set the vision, let them know what part of the org they're going to represent and what they're responsible for and then just let them run, let them create, not get in Their way, not micromanage. I think if you really want to get the best out of people, especially people that are self motivated, let them do their thing and give them a chance to show what they can do.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You've talked about the power of culture and core values.

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

When you started Jet.com what were the core values?

[Mark Lorey]

Core values? Yeah. Was trust, transparency and fairness.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Interesting.

[Mark Lorey]

And the reason why I picked those three and another thing that I would say about core values to anyone that's thinking about core values is, and I've learned this lesson is you can't start with a list of 10. If you get like a bunch of people in your management team together and you start doing a list, they all sort of converge to a similar list of 10 things. Integrity and excellence and all this stuff. I think for the core values to really be core, it has to be three or less. And you have to be prepared to live those values as a company in a way that no other company in the world does. And it's not just values. Like don't confuse them with traits you're looking for, like the spate. Don't confuse it with that. These are values that the company, things the company can do to create a culture. And so when we pick trust, transparency and fairness, the reason why we picked those three is because we felt those were the three most important values to lead to empowerment. So if you want somebody to feel empowered, you gotta be transparent as a company. Meaning be willing to share information, share financials, share sensitive information, be really open and know that there's a risk that that could get out and that, but that's, you know, but be transparent, trust people. So you trust them obviously with the information, but also to do their job, not to get in their way. We didn't have a non solicit agreement, non compete agreement. We trusted people and it was more of a handshake. Come work here and we're going to give you information that you won't get at other companies. We'll trust you in a way that you've never been trusted before and we're going to create a fair, safe work environment.

[Tom Bilyeu]

When you were starting out, what was the secret to raising capital? I get now you have a track record. There's going to be a lot of people that would bet on you sight unseen at this point. But what was the key in the beginning? How did you convince people to give you money?

[Mark Lorey]

Okay, so the first was the pit that I really raised money for, which is an online sports stock market. That's where I raised I did 200 investor pitches. So first thing I'd say is prepared to do a lot of pitches. People, when they tell me, they're like, oh, I'm having trouble raising money. I'm like, oh, tell me, how many people have you talked to? I sat with probably like five or six people, and it wasn't really a lot of interest. I'm like, five or six? How about 500? You know, it's like. So the first company I met with 200 people, 60 of them made an investment, which is a pretty good hit rate, almost one in three. I still tell people that was 140 people that I gave the full pitch to that said, no, I don't want to invest. So even though it's a great hit rate, still way more people are going to say no. But the thing that put a lot of those 60 people over was the fact that they saw the passion that I had for the idea and the commitment I was making, not only for quitting my job, but I invested $390,000 into the business. And they looked at the sheet. I remember this one investor, very specifically Garnett, he looked at the sheet and he goes, I see here you invested 390,000. Can I just ask. I'd never seen that before. Why didn't you round to 400? I said, well, I only have 390,000. And he's like, all right, I'm in. Put me in. It was like, immediate. And that sort of triggered for me. I didn't realize at the time that that was actually going to be as valuable as it was. But I started to use that with investors after I'd say, you know, I've invested my entire life savings in this business. That's how much I believe in it, you know, and they're like, are you committed? Are you really going to, like, yeah, my entire life savings is in it. I have. I was making this salary. I'm making zero salary now. Yes, I'm committed. That's what got a lot of people over the hump. So I would say, if you're raising money from angel investors, it doesn't need. You don't need to have a network. Because I knew nobody. It was just my boss, and he introduced me to two people. It's find one person, ask them to introduce to a couple people, and then each person you pitch asked to introduce you to a couple people, and you just. And so the network just grows. And that's the way I did it. It was no connections. A lot of people think you need Connections you need to know, people you need. There's no venture capital. There's no institutional investor. The first time it was 5 million bucks of just, you know, 80,000 a pop on average, basically among 60 people. That's how I started.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's crazy, man.

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Dude, look, your string of success is so gnarly. Congratulations. How can people stay in touch with you? How can they learn more?

[Mark Lorey]

I've been. The last year, I've been sort ofactive on LinkedIn. I don't really have time for other social media stuff, but LinkedIn, I try and once a week put a post, I get an idea about something I think could be helpful to folks and I'll sort of post it on there. So that would be the best way, I guess. Perfect.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, last question. What is the impact that you want to have on the world?

[Mark Lorey]

What is the impact? That's a big question. I just, I mean, the way I live my life every day is I try and do what I was telling you I do with my kids and just trying to be empathetic and give back and, you know, give more than I take. And I think that's kind of the impact I want to make. Give as much as I possibly can without asking or taking much back in return.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Amazing, man.

[Mark Lorey]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, guys, he is starting to put out a little bit more content, I would say. Drink it all in. What he has done is beyond extraordinary. To be that all in in your life, to gamble on yourself, to learn from your mistakes, to grow and just continue to execute at a higher and higher level. And that may be the most important thing that he said. Execution is far more important than the idea. So speaking of executing, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. All right, thank you, man. Everybody, thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to itunes, go to Stitcher Rate and review us. That helps us build this community. And that is what we are all about right now. Building this community as big as we can can to help as many people as we can deliver as much value as possible. And you guys rating and reviewing really helps with that. All right, guys, thank you again so much. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.

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