← Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory
Loading summary
Transcript191 lines
- [00:00]
A
When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [01:00]
B
Do you think the system has scared people or has Trump himself scared people?
- [01:05]
C
He has now seen the evil of the Democrat party and we're watching the evil of the Democrat party burst forth right now in everything that's going on.
- [01:12]
B
You had money taken, buying power robbed from your bank account, sent technically overseas, but the money comes back to American contractors. So if you're one of those American contractors, you just got richer.
- [01:25]
C
Florida man. Florida man does this. Florida man does that. Florida man smokes meth and wrestle an alligator and saves a child. And Florida man was right about a lot of something.
- [01:36]
B
What do you think about what's going on in France? So keep France for the French seems to be the headline takeaway.
- [01:46]
C
Yeah.
- [01:48]
B
Yeah. What do you think about it?
- [01:51]
C
Well, I would say that France, just like every other country, exists as a nation state to protect the interests of the French people. That is not necessarily a skin color, by the way.
- [02:00]
B
Is it racist to do that?
- [02:01]
C
No, it absolutely isn't. Again, every country exists. The way you get diverse nations is that every country gets to decide what it is. The country of Chad can behave in a certain way for the people of Chad. Maybe it's not always going to operate for the people of Chad, but it can have. You can do what it wants within those borders. And that's different than than how Belgium or than how El Salvador is going to operate. What's happening in France right now is a really strange perversion of how democratic rule is supposed to be in that the party of the right, I will not say far right, but the party of. Because if you listen to Marine Le Pen who is the leader of the. What is thought of as the far right party. We've played several of her speeches on my show. And if you listen to her speeches, she doesn't say anything racist. She doesn't. She talks about the love of France and the tr. And she talks about classic. She literally talks about classically liberal values of that country and everything else. What she's upset by is that because of leadership, leftist leadership of the last probably three decades, but mostly in the last 10 years, they have let in millions of people. Most of them happen to be Muslim, but not all of them who have ideas that are counter to French ideals, that are not liberal in nature, that have different views as it pertains to women's rights, that have different views as it pertains to gays and other minorities and everything else. And they won. They had the most win. They had the most votes in the election. But then all of the far left parties decided to join together and basically override the election. So they really should have won. She should be the next president of France. But the far left is going to be in charge of France and France is in a. France is in serious trouble right now. Serious trouble. Because it has been getting worse and worse. Paris is not the Paris of. Forget Paris. If you saw Billy Crystal, I think that came out in 1995 too. It is not that Paris anymore. It isn't. And they, and they. The Jews are going to have to get out of France. I see no, I see no situation that this is going to end well in France if the far left fully takes power there.
- [04:05]
B
That is a very big statement. Yeah, yeah.
- [04:09]
C
You got a couple. You got a couple hundred thousand Jews left in France. The system has made it clear that it doesn't care for them. And if you're going to have people
- [04:16]
B
that can just clear.
- [04:20]
C
There is an obvious truth here that if you get to a certain percentage in these countries of you get to a certain amount of Islamic immigration into these countries and the people decide not to embrace French values. The same thing that you just talked about from an American perspective. I wouldn't care about anyone's religion if someone came into a country and said, oh, but I'm an American first. I'm a French first. I believe in the founding aspirational documents here in America or I believe in the founding principles of France. And I believe this is a multicultural. France is a multicultural place. They've had people from all over the world that have lived in France. You don't just walk into France and only see White people, obviously. You see black people and Asians and everything else. It's not as open as America because America, as you said, was an idea that everyone could come here. So it's different than that. France is also older and everything else. But when you let in a certain amount of people generally from a specific religion, it does not work out for. Well. Well, for people in other religions or minorities. That's just a truth. It's extremely uncomfortable to talk about.
- [05:24]
B
Yeah. So you're talking specifically Muslims.
- [05:28]
C
If you were. There are 22 Arab states that are basically all Muslim states. There are virtually no Jews left in any of them. There are basically no Christians left in any of them. There's a couple Coptic Christians left in Egypt. There's a reason for that. The more that London has become Islamicized or whatever word you want to call it, the worse it has gotten for other people. These are. That's just true. It's just true. I don't know exact. Every country has to decide what they want to do with that. The Dutch just elected Gert Builders. He's largely against this type of immigration and is promising to deport people. We'll see. I'm not for deport. I would never be for deporting the. The Muslim family, who operates the same way every other family does in America and is abiding by the laws and all of those other things, obviously. But if you have people that. Supporting all of these bad ideas and then behaving outside the realms of law, and then you see these protests that we're now seeing all over the place where they're literally, you know, they're celebrating terrorist organizations, avowed terrorist organizations, that. That have stated goals of genocide. Again, it's one of those things. How long can that stand for? So I would say to people in France, if you're a minority in France right now, why the intersectional government, the leftists align with the jihadists, with the radical gays and all that thing's not going work for very long. It's going to descend into chaos very quickly.
- [06:51]
B
How much daylight is between your views on Muslims and Sam Harris's?
- [06:59]
C
I mean, to be totally honest with you, I haven't listened to Sam in quite some time. So I don't know where he's at, say, in the last two years as it relates to all this. But again, I don't want to frame it. I wouldn't want to frame it as Muslims per se. What would be the right way for
- [07:13]
B
me to understand what you're.
- [07:14]
C
It's just one of These things, it's like, annoying to talk about in some respect.
- [07:17]
B
Because it's so hot.
- [07:18]
C
Yeah, because it's so, so hot. And it will just. It can be clipped in any which way that will come off the wrong way.
- [07:24]
B
Yeah, I get using sentences that are going to be hard to get out, but I do want to understand. Like, even if so, for instance, I, I haven't thought enough about this problem to give you a specific take on that, but I believe that people should be able to think up from first principles.
- [07:39]
C
Okay, so let's, let's try it this way. So can you give me a place in the world that is Muslim majority or run by Muslims that is good for anyone else besides Muslims, or even good women or other minorities that may be Muslim? Like, A's?
- [07:55]
B
I have no idea. But that's knowing what you don't know. Not that, oh, my God, I've looked everywhere and I can't find an answer.
- [08:03]
C
But basically I think, well, so here's,
- [08:07]
B
here's how I would approach the problem. And this is, hey, dear Internet, I'm very open to people helping me actually think through this problem better. But so when I don't know the history or I don't know the specifics of a situation that, to me, I don't think it is helpful for people to think of it as like, oh, I don't have to think about that. I think people should practice thinking up from first principles, knowing that I will not be able to give you any specifics about Muslim immigration, but I can tell you what would need to be true for this to work. So I'm going to skip sort of the first part of physics as it would be a waste of time in this conversation. Go right to the way human psychology works. Okay, the way human psychology works, we know that people are super tribal. So we also know that for humans to work together flexibly in large groups, religion is one of the most powerful ways that we get very large numbers of people to work together. There's a memeification of the belief system that travels in story through religion. So already, if I have religions that are coming together, I know, ooh, I have a potential friction point because they do such a good job of triggering tribal stances and that they create or they allow for the very clear communication of value sets. So now when you have religion v Religion, you don't have sort of that secular like, oh, I haven't thought about that. And, oh, cool, you're introducing me to a new idea word. It's like, no, no, no, we, we don't eat food like that. You don't eat food like that. We don't dress like that. You don't dress like that. So you, you ratchet up in a big way the potential for conflict because you have very clearly defined values that are easy to disseminate amongst the population, have all these visual cues to each other as like, ooh, I'm on one team, you're on another. Okay, so now I'm like, I don't know if one religion is better or worse. I just know that religions tend to have a collision point. Now, in America, for a long time, there's been, I don't know how people feel about this, but from where I'm sitting, it feels like a watering down of some of those principles. It's become far more secular. And so that's one of the ways that we've dealt with it, is I think this will be backed up by data, but I do not have data. This is just 48 years of being an American. We don't have as strong of orthodox communities. Those are going to be much smaller. We have them, but that's not like the super present thing.
- [10:27]
C
I think that can be empirically proven, by the way. It will be.
- [10:31]
B
It is an empirical question. I just don't have the answer. Okay, so now you go, all right, if we have religions that are immigrating to the United States or to France, wherever, and they don't want to assimilate, now I'm getting nervous again. This does not yet trigger me as like, oh, this is a Muslim problem. This could be an IRA problem, whatever. It's just any problem where I have a religious element, they're easily easy to identify and they're colliding with another religion. And if neither of those religions are leaning into the sort of moderate secular angle, you're. You're going to have woes. And so then it's like, okay, well, we better have some way, if politics is downstream of culture, we better have some way at the level of culture to address this. Because if we don't, you're just going to have these tribes that grow, grow, grow until they either secularize or they collide in spectacular fashion or one beheads
- [11:21]
C
the other, which is basically, that would
- [11:23]
B
be collide in a spectacular fashion. So the, the bet I don't know enough to make myself is whether the orthodoxy in people that are coming in bringing Islam with them, if the orthodoxy is such that they will not become secular, they will not integrate into the value system of the country. If they won't. Again, this goes for any religion. There's going to be a collision. And that if we are both right, and you said. Who said it first, but whoever said that politics is downstream of culture. I think everything is downstream of culture.
- [11:56]
C
Yeah.
- [11:57]
B
Because that's one of the biggest ways to manipulate your own frame of reference. So if we cannot get a shared frame of reference, you will have a collision. But again, Sam Harris has a take that it is particularly pronounced in the Muslim faith that the orthodoxy becomes so extreme around the idea of a caliphate. This is where now I'm just into ignorance. I don't know enough about it. But you'll have that set up with any religion.
- [12:29]
C
Right. So again, I can't speak to exactly what Sam is talking about, but the principle you just laid out there I think is correct. And I would. I would also say that not all of. Not all religions, just like not all ideas are equal. So if you were just to look at the big three monotheistic religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity, Judaism doesn't proselytize, so they're not out there looking for converts. Right. It's extremely difficult to convert to Judaism. So that's. That's very fundamentally different than a religion that is out there looking to. To evangelize. Now, what's different? So Islam and Christianity both evangelize. They want more people to convert to them, but that doesn't mean that they're equal e either. Because if a whole bunch of Christian. Even if a bunch of Christian missionaries move into your community, the chance they may talk to you about Christianity, they may welcome you over for a potluck and show you their lifestyle and try to get you to come on Sunday to pray with them and everything else, you have very little chance that it's going to escalate to anything beyond that. If a bunch of. Let's say more, and this is where the words are all sort of muddled, but if you had more radical elements of Muslim people moving into your neighborhood, there is every reason to believe that they would be encroaching on you more and more. Or how do you think they would be treating the Jews that live there or the other minorities or the gays or anything else that is just fundamentally different. America, which is a largely Christian country. Right. That's why the left seems seemingly hates America, also is widely accepting of virtually every type of minority. Actually, it celebrates every type of minority, which is also bizarre. Like, you don't have to celebrate that somebody likes to wear a furry costume and run around putting someone On a dog leash. They can do that if they want, but you don't have to celebrate it. So they are different, but they are not all the same, even just by their actions. And I think that's an important distinction to make.
- [14:24]
B
Yeah, yeah, this is.
- [14:27]
C
But also I would say all that being said, I'm by no means am I an election expert as it pertains to the French. We're just talking about like the broad trend trends that we're seeing across Europe right now where Hungary doesn't have this problem because they close their borders and people say they're racist. And again, I never got the implication that Orban was racist. England has this hu. This huge same problem that they have. As I just said, the the Netherlands just voted in. Somebody thought of as on the far right. Italy did the same thing. So these countries are just responding to things. It's not, it's not racist to want Italian culture to be preserved. You can decide what your immigration policies are. Look, is Japan a shit?
- [15:04]
B
Are you sure about that?
- [15:06]
C
Yeah.
- [15:07]
B
Let me paint a picture and this may be where you're headed.
- [15:10]
C
Yeah.
- [15:11]
B
Oh God. Okay. Interesting idea. I am simply trying to understand how the world really works. I am a Japanophile. My favorite place on planet Earth is Tokyo. I could not.
- [15:25]
C
So funny. So my producer sitting here on the way, driving here. Japan is the one place that I've never been to that I really want to go.
- [15:31]
B
Yeah.
- [15:32]
C
And we were talking about taking the whole team there. Yeah. From the first time, 1985. I saw the back in the Super Mario Brothers on Nintendo. Made in Japan. I was like, I have to go to this place.
- [15:39]
B
Rightly so. And you will be greeted by manga characters and video game characters everywhere.
- [15:45]
C
Really. I could see why you'd be very happy there. Yeah.
- [15:48]
B
I love virtually everything about it. It's absolutely awesome.
- [15:51]
C
Yeah.
- [15:52]
B
But I have a feeling it's racist. And there is just a sea of Japanese people when you look out. And I know enough expats that live there that during COVID they were like, bro, you've got obese 85 year olds that will get a shot before a. A foreigner who's like. Or sorry, you'll get a healthy 14 year old that will get a shot before an obese 85 year old that's a foreigner. They're like, they just man it. It all goes in like how Japanese are you? And they're going to prioritize that now. The thing is, I love the culture that is produced and so the fact that they have kept people out for as long as they have has created something interesting. And so, God, I absolutely do not endorse racism in any way, shape or form.
- [16:45]
C
Okay.
- [16:46]
B
But I will say that keeping Japan for the Japanese is interesting.
- [16:49]
C
Okay. So maybe the word. So I think the word racism has become too toxic to maybe applied exactly to what you're saying.
- [16:57]
B
Can we call it School of Fish?
- [16:59]
C
Yeah, it's. It's more like that in that. That sounds a little bit softer and is illustrating.
- [17:04]
B
It's a lot softer.
- [17:04]
C
Yeah.
- [17:05]
B
Japanese want to hang with Japanese. Yeah.
- [17:07]
C
And I don't think that makes them racist per se. You are allowed again. You are allowed. It's why we are not. It's why the song Imagine is so idiotic and everyone thinks it's so brilliant. It's so brilliant. If we just had no borders and we had no nothing. Well, okay, yes. In fantasy land, that doesn't have anything to do with how humans operate or anything else.
- [17:24]
B
Only if we fantasy.
- [17:26]
C
Yes. If we had this pure fantasy land.
- [17:28]
B
But since then, sure. Well, so this is interesting. Did. Did this contribute to bad things?
- [17:32]
D
If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-granger. Visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [18:03]
B
Politics is downstream of culture. Songs are really powerful culturally. I think that song is beautiful in its aspiration. I get that. It's not literally how we should.
- [18:18]
C
The problem. The problem.
- [18:20]
B
Yeah.
- [18:20]
C
Give me the problem with. I'm not a Beatles guy in general also, by the way, I really despise. Not that I am, but it's just noise. It's a lot of noise happening at once there. But the problem with that song is. Yes, so. Well, I'm not exactly sure it's aspirational, actually. It's fan. It's. It's a fantasy. Not necessarily aspirational. What would be aspirational would be that, oh, you can live the way you want to live and you can live amongst people that are somewhat like you and that will. That will create human flourishing and someone else can do it another way. It's more of a fantasy to be like, we will have no borders, we will have no differences. And everything else. That actually sounds very dystopian in A certain sense like we will just because ultimately that leads us to all being the same. And I don't think that that's good. I don't think you think that that's good either. And that I would say is.
- [19:08]
B
Well, no, that might. So, wow. Well, we have to get specific about what we mean by the same. But before we do that, let me introduce an idea. So there's a guerrilla troop. Troop or chimpanzee? I think chimpanzee troop. Studied by the guy who wrote Determined. Somebody look him up for me. Stanford professor, absolutely brilliant guy. Anyway, there was this. They. There were a bunch of the chimpanzees that were eating out of like these dumpsters and the dumpsters got tainted meat and it killed basically all of the more aggressive males that would go and sort of dominate this garbage heap. And so after all of them died, they were left with this sort of really chill, calm, largely female led group of chimps or baboons. And it stayed like that for generations because what each of them learned, because they would even bring in people from other tribes, other monkey troops, they would come in and they would be like, no, no, we don't do that violent here. And they were just like, oh cool. Like I, I'm going to adapt to the norms of this group. Again, politics being downstream of culture, even in monkeys. Surely somebody has found the name of this man by now. He wrote the book Determined. And it, that to me is really interesting because it does put forth that if you can get the cult right that you can really change behavior tremendously. Now I actually am a believer on the political stage of realpolitik. So please don't anybody get confused about what I think is real.
- [20:52]
C
Right?
- [20:53]
B
And I think the truest statement that has ever been made in, in pre government, even with governments, the strong will do as they will and the weak will suffer as they must. That just is. But nonetheless, I think that that again is downstream of biology and values.
- [21:12]
C
So you would basically say that the monkey or chimpanzee or gorilla group that you're talking about is in some ways that's a parable for Japan is what you're saying, basically, right?
- [21:24]
B
I'm saying that by being all the same, if by same we mean values, you can create a value system that outputs something so awesome that as an American I'm just like in awe of the culture that they produce. So I think that America is the only place I want to live. I'm not moving to Japan anytime soon. I have a bad feeling. I would never be able to get business done there, because I am an outsider. But nonetheless, I love and appreciate what they've created. I love being a part of the melting pot. I just want everybody to look at the reality of what you get. So, to me, all of these situations are held together by values, not skin color.
- [22:03]
C
Yeah.
- [22:04]
B
It just so happens that from an evolutionary standpoint, yes, it used to be very hard to travel, and so people would effectively interbreed. And so we all looked a certain way. Europeans look a certain way. I mean, you can tell the difference between a European and an Eastern European just by the way their face looks. We can all agree on that. And you go over into Asia, same thing. It all just fragments out. And for a very long time, we're all isolationists out of necessity. From that is born these incredibly unique cultures. And so I'm just saying, hey, let's all take a realist view at this stuff and say by Japan being so insular, you get one thing. This a very amazing product. The US has done something different, and it's created a very amazing product.
- [22:47]
C
And I guess what you would say the danger part would be then is if Japan started trying to export that across the world through force. And as long as they're not doing that, then they can have their islands, and it's just fine. And it's just fine. And if you don't want to be part of it, they're not forcing any of the American expats that are obese, that want the COVID chat to stay there and then get going. So whether we want to call that racist, I just. I just don't think that's largely helpful for someone trying to understand this, because the word has been so mangled and everything else. But I have no problem with Japan being for Japanese people and them deciding what. But immigration policy is right for them, the same way that America should do it. But as you've illustrated several times, we have a different founding ethos. So our immigration policy is going to be broader and more wide and less racially connotated than theirs will be. Those are just different things.
- [23:42]
B
Yeah. Play the scenarios out. I think that's the only way to put together an immigration policy that will yield the outcomes that you want. You have to define the outcomes that you want. Like, if we want to be the nation that says, yeah, give us your poor, you're tired, you're weak, you're hungry, huddled masses, send them our way. And then realpolitik, which John Mearsheimer, if you guys don't know who he is. Look him up. It is. People will exploit the system. So you have to understand, okay, what are the ways in which this will be exploited? Do we want to let that happen? Do we want to stop that from happening? But it becomes a very interesting question.
- [24:19]
C
I think maybe, maybe we got into this when I had you on my show a couple weeks ago. But what. What generation are you in America and where. What?
- [24:26]
B
I'm Gen X.
- [24:27]
C
No, no, no, I know you're Gen X. What generation? In terms of your lineage of your family, like who came here first?
- [24:32]
B
I don't think we talked about this. My great grandfather had a German accent on one side and Dutch on the other, but both great grandparents.
- [24:43]
C
Okay, so your great grandparents came from the Netherlands and from Germany. Now they came here. I'm gonna guess the family story. They pretty much came with nothing, right? Correct. And they got probably to Ellis island first.
- [24:55]
B
I don't know that one of them jumped ship. Not literally. He refused to reboard, but you get the idea.
- [25:01]
C
Okay, but they came. They basically had nothing. And then America promised them, hey, you got a shot, you tired. Tired and poor and huddled masses. And then they worked real hard, just like my. It's my great grandparents. And actually one of them was from Holland. Also worked real hard, given nothing. My grandfather lived in tenement building, one bedroom, six kids. His father, my great grandfather, died when he two years old. Then they had to move into somewhere in Brooklyn with his uncle. And then it was like 12 kids in a two bedroom. All of that stuff. They basically had nothing. His first job, he always used to tell me how he died when I was in second grade. But I remember him always telling me that his first job was for. It was a quarter. But that dream. Then he. Then he was a lithographer. He was lower middle class, but worked real hard. They lived in Brooklyn. Then my dad grew up in that. He became solidly middle class. They moved to the suburbs, Long Island. That's where I grew up. I grew up solidly middle class. Starting to get to upper middle class. And then now I'm obviously. I guess you would say it was. It was upper class. My children will grow with that. I hope that I'm able to fill them up with all of the right ideas so that they're able to do like amazing adventures one day and everything else and not be discriminated against because they were born with a little something or because of the color of their skin or anything else. That really is the dream. That's the thing that you want to. That we Both want to perpetuate and we want to sell. And for. For some reason, America hasn't been able to sell that as well. So that's the particularly perverse part of when a certain set of people are just like open borders for everybody. And also this place is horrible. Then you bring in a whole host of problems that we are now seeing everywhere. Which is why there's this incredible video we played on my show a couple weeks ago, maybe you saw it, of. There's a community center somewhere in Chicago that's largely. It's mostly black people that go to this community center. It now, because Chicago had. Became a sanctuary city, has now been overrun by illegal immigrants. And now the black people of Chicago in this particular area are pissed, and they are rightfully pissed because they had a community center where they could go swimming and play basketball and maybe drop their kids off after school. And now it's been overrun by people that, again, we don't know if they will love this country or anything else. And I'm also going to guess that when your grandparents got here that they busted their ass. Your great grandparents busted their ass and worked. And they didn't. They didn't give German immigrants anything, just like they didn't give Italian immigrants anything, or Irish immigrants or Jewish immigrants or anything else. It was just the freaking chance. And that roll of the dice is way better than anything we're being sold right now.
- [27:34]
B
Yeah, it is interesting. My family is full of amazing people and total lunkheads.
- [27:44]
C
Is it 50? 50? What's the. What's the percentage? That's the question.
- [27:47]
B
Generous. That's generous. Love my family to death, but like anybody's family.
- [27:51]
C
No, of course, of course. But that's the. But that's also the beauty of freedom. You know, you have people that grow up that are going to be the children of billionaires, that will have every opportunity in the world, that will screw up everything or die of drugs or blah, blah, blah. And then you have the story that we all love of the guy who came with nothing and then becomes the star and that, like that all of that is the gestalt of America. And that. That is the thing that is so freaking precious that we better hold on to.
- [28:13]
B
Yeah. All right, let's talk about the thing that a president can actually influence, which is foreign policy. What do you want to see happen in 2024 with Ukraine, with Israel, Pa, Palestine? Like, what. What is the right path to walk?
- [28:29]
C
I mean, look, the Ukraine thing is just unbelievably complex again, because we hit it Briefly before, but at the end, Putin has nukes. You cannot beat him militarily in that sense. So we can keep funding Ukraine to keep trying to get back territory. And you may not like that he encroached on Ukraine in the first place. And he's not a good guy. I mean, no way a Putin defender or anything else. He didn't want NATO at his borders, which actually, because I believe in sovereign nations, I understand why he didn't want that. He didn't want you basically GI Joe in like a perverse sense, to be at his border and be able to just take his country or if that's what he felt was going to happen or whatever. Ukraine is also a giant. There's a huge money laundering operation there. And it's not, as, you know, we keep this idea that we're selling freedom through Ukraine or something is extremely, I would say, tenuous at best. I think the only way Ukraine gets solved is probably that they are going. Sorry, that Ukraine gets solved is that they are going to. To have to concede some land to Russia. There are plenty of Russian native speakers that want to be part of Mother Russia. I don't see any way around that. Again, you cannot beat them militarily. So I think that just kind of, it just is what it is and it needs. I also think the American appetite for it is, you know, there's a, there's a, I think, more cogent argument around Israel and values and everything else that we've discussed here that I think you can sell to people. But the Ukraine thing is starting to feel also because there's such weirdness. The Biden family in Ukraine and everything else, it's just messy and it needs to come to some kind of negotiated end. That is not going to make, is certainly not going to make all of the hardcore Ukraine people happy. The Israel situation is much more simple. All they need is the help. They need some diplomatic help because they're under constant diplomatic assault. They are, they're a country the size of New Jersey that basically is like eight miles wide, which is so unfathomable to think of. They have one international airport. I mean, it's an obscenely tiny country in a really tough part of the world, surrounded by nations that don't want them to be. Be there, that never wanted them to be there and don't want them to be there. I think they, they obviously have every right to be there. And if you think, whether you're a believer or not, I mean, Jesus of Nazareth, that is the modern Israel of Today, and he was Jewish. But let's not. We don't do the. The history lesson. The. The thing that we can do for Israel is basically say to them, you have diplomatic support, you have the military support you need, and you have diplomatic support to root this terrorist organization out. And then Ruth is terrorist organization meaning talking about Hamas in Gaza. And then the much bigger problem, though, is that Lebanon is basically a failed state that's run by Hezbollah, which is a Shiite terror organization run from Iran, Right? So the Lebanese government right now has nothing to do with what's happening in Lebanon. So every day, hundreds of rockets are being shot into Israel. We wouldn't tolerate one rocket being shot from Canada into Detroit. We'd bomb Mexico. So, like, they have to, like, there is a much bigger war happening there because Hezbollah is much stronger than Hamas. I was in Israel about a year and a half ago. This is well before October 7th, and all anyone was talking about was the incoming war with Lebanon. Not the war, not anything to do with Gaza. There was not one Jew in Gaza. No one wanted anything to do with Gaza. There was a fence which clearly proved not to be effective, but nobody was like, oh, we want Gaza. We want to. They gave Gaza away. They wanted nothing to do with it. Egypt built a hell of a freaking wall to stop any gazing coming in from Egypt. Egypt for any gazing going into Egypt. So that one, I think all we can do is basically give them some military support and some diplomatic efforts as the world kind of turns against them. But again, the bumper sticker thing would be peace through strength. You show the world that you're strong, and then the world doesn't do crazy things. Donald Trump, I think, is completely right when he says that Ukraine would not have happened under him. Look, we have evidence of that, right? What's the region in Ukraine that they took under Obama? Sorry, I'm blanking for a second. Not Donbar, not Georgia. Crimea.
- [32:26]
B
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [32:27]
C
That was up at 5am this morning. They took Crimea, right? So Russia took Crimea under Barack Obama, and we did nothing. Now, I'm not saying we should have done anything, but Putin did a test under Obama, right? And the test was, oh, Obama doesn't do anything when I make moves. Then we had Trump for four years, nothing happened. Then we got Biden and we had this invasion. So there's empirical evidence to look at that when you have peace through strength. You know what did two things that Trump did very early in the presidency that everyone thought he was completely insane. He dropped the Moab Remember that? The mother of all bombs. He dropped it and everyone was like, oh, my God, it's going to start world war. Oh, no. He did three things. Mother of all bombs. He drops this massive bomb. It's not a nuke, but it's this massive bomb. He drops the bomb. Everyone's like, my God, it's going to start World War Three. Nothing happens. But. But what it made is our. Our foes in the world be like, what the hell is this guy doing? He just drops big bombs for no reason. Then he moved the embassy to Jerusalem, the American embassy to Jerusalem, which is the capital of is. Everyone said, my God, it's going to start World War iii. Nothing happened. Absolutely nothing happened. And then, and then, of course, he created these peace deals and everyone said, oh, my God, if you do all these peace deals without the Palestinians, all hell is going to break loose. But it wasn't true, and more were. Were coming down the pike. And unfortunately, he didn't get a second term to make it happen. So all it is, oh, and he killed Soleimani, the Iranian general. So if you lead with strength. I'm not for war. I'm not for nation building. Well, say I'm not for war is just a silly phrase. Like, that's what the pacifists say all the time. I'm for war when it is just, but I am certainly not for nation building. I think we should scale back all of this. If you told me we were blowing apart the foreign aid by 50% overnight, I would be for it as long as it was equal across the board. And we're not singling out countries and all of that stuff. As I said before, it's not good for our allies to be so dependent on us. But I believe in peace through strength. If you have red lines, you have to hold them. Reagan knew that. It's what ended the Cold War. These are like basic, obvious principles. The idea that you can just get out there and be like, oh, you know, we're just whatever. And that's what America, that's what we project right now. That's why it's very likely that this summer, especially with what's going on with Biden, why wouldn't. If China's plan really is to take Taiwan, which is basically what they're saying and what everyone believes, why wouldn't you do it right now? Wouldn't it. Wouldn't this be the greatest opportunity to do it, do it right before the election, as everyone thinks the President of the United States has dementia. Like it would be Pretty great time to do it. If you were. If you were Iran and you really wanted this war to go hot, if you thought this was actually your chance to get Israel in an existential war, why wouldn't you ramp it up right now? So there's a lot. I think there's just a. I mean, this connects us directly to the beginning of the conversation, but there is a lot of seriously bad energy in the system that could be used by people who just want to nudge us one way or another right now, which. That's probably the most dangerous thing about a Biden presidency right now. It's not really whether he's in charge or not. It's whether the people or the countries or forces that would love to do damage to the world or to the United States are willing to take advantage of it. And that's the total X factor in this, because that has nothing to do with however we vote or anything else.
- [35:30]
B
Do you think Trump will actually be able to end the war in Ukraine?
- [35:34]
C
Yeah. Yeah. It's like, what does he do? He negotiates. You know, it's funny. I. I. Do you watch. Did you ever watch reality tv, or were you a reality TV guy at all? The only show that I ever watched reality tv, I swear was. Was Celebrity Apprentice. I don't know why I turned it on one day. I don't. I haven't had cable in, like, 20 years, but I had cable back then. It was on NBC. I turned it on one day and Joan Rivers was on. I guess that's why I watched it. I really like Joan Rivers. She ended up winning that season. And what does Trump do? He negotiates. He sets people up against each other. He keeps everybody guessing. You know, you think he's going to fire one person that episode? Next thing you knew, he fired three people. And, like, that is the magic of Trump. That is the. That is the mastery of Trump. That's what his book was about. Like, that is the thing that allowed him to be an unbelievably successful real estate developer in York, which it's certainly not easy to do. So I think there's every reason to believe that he would. Either he would call Zelensky or he would call Putin, or he'd call them both, and he might say to Putin, listen, this thing wraps up soon, or you're really gonna. We're going to escalate this in a way that you just will have no idea what we're going to do. And there would be reason to believe that might be true, as I just Illustrated. Or what's probably more appropriate is he'll say to Zelensky, listen, the gravy train's over, so you're going to have to concede some ground. I'm sorry, it's not exactly what we all wanted and it may be unjust and Putin may be evil, but we're just, we're wrapping this thing up. And then Zelensky would have to wrap it up. So I think there's every reason to believe, I think Trump also, He said that October 7 never would have happened under his watch. I think there's every reason to believe that. I don't think Iran would have had the balls to do it. Or even right now. There are eight American hostages somewhere in Gaza. Americans. Americans. Nobody knows their names. Right. Joe Biden has not uttered their name once. We could have ended all of this on October 8th. All he had to do was call Qatar, which is a tiny, tiny country that is pouring crazy amounts of money into our university system and everything else. We know where the leadership of Hamas are. They're all billionaires, by the way, and they have private jets and they live in the Mandarin Oriental, I think, and everything else. And all we have to do is say, okay, you have one week to release the hostages or we're blowing up Qatar. I'm not, I don't like the idea of blowing up Qatar or killing anyone that's innocent. But again, it's peace through strength. You show people there are credible threats. You're going to release the Amer. You wouldn't even had to said, release the Israelis, release the Americans. But we haven't even done that. So this, this week, neither here nor there thing that we're doing, it's, it's bad for Americans. Like, does that make any. Look, you have obviously great resources, all well deserved, and everything else, like when you travel, you, you could have a target on your back for whatever reason, right? It's like, and I, I could anyone, forget resources or anything else. If you're an American and you go to another country right now and you, you go to Mexico and there's gangs and they kid you, kidnap you, why would you have belief that America is going to do anything about you? I don't know that that is a problem. And we, that's what we're projecting right now.
- [38:21]
D
If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-granger. Visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [38:51]
B
Okay, so as you think about Trump coming into office, if we're going to play our hand well in Israel Palestine, I see the path that you laid out in the Ukraine, but what is the similar path path in Israel Palestine?
- [39:12]
C
Well, first off, just on the semantic side, it's not exactly Israel Palestine, it's Israel Gaza because Palestine was never a country. There was no prime minister. There was the British Mandate of Palestine which is historic Judea and Samaria and Israel itself and everything. But again, we don't have to do a history lesson on that. But I think it's weird you brought it up so it's worth discussing a little bit just because people get very confused by that. Yeah.
- [39:34]
B
So I am familiar enough with this argument that, that it's fascinating.
- [39:39]
C
Yeah.
- [39:40]
B
But I don't think it's going to change anyone's mind. So are you assuming I'll, I'll lay out my best understanding of this and you tell me if I go astray, my understanding goes like this. Somewhere in this, around 67 people first start using the phrase the people of Palestine because that begs the question, well, if there was a people of Palestine, then there must have been a nation state of Palestine and also triggers a, a UN resolution that any peoples have the ability to self determination and therefore can defend themselves etc. And so they want to get world opinion around the fact that these guys have a right to defend themselves. Is that accurate?
- [40:22]
C
Mostly accurate. Well, well, well, no. I mean in essence what you're saying is there, there were never a people known as Palestinians, meaning that there was the British Mandate of Palestine and Jews lived there and some Christians lived there and Drews lived there and back Bedouins live there and everything else. And you can look at, and people could look at it right now, find New York Times headlines from pre modern state of Israel. There were, it wasn't Jews versus Palestinians, it was Jews. It was Jews.
- [40:43]
B
Trying to figure out why you bring that up. Why would you want to be careful to outline that? Well, it's not really against Palestine.
- [40:52]
C
It's because palace, because it implies that Palestine was a, was a nation state unto itself.
- [40:57]
B
Right.
- [40:58]
C
They're fight, they're fighting a terrorist group that exists in Gaza right now. Gaza, a place that not one Jew or Israeli has lived since 2005. They left unilaterally. They left them in.
- [41:08]
B
Let's say that everybody goes, oh, shit, I didn't know that. Do you think they'll be like, oh, word, just keep bombing now that I know that they're not?
- [41:14]
C
No, no, no. But I think it's. I think. I don't know. Well, I would say for someone like you that clearly cares about details and getting sort of like a chronology. Right. And everything else, it's. I think it's worth noting. That's all I would say we don't have to get. We don't have to get too lost.
- [41:26]
B
Really interesting.
- [41:27]
C
Yeah.
- [41:28]
B
But this is one that I'm like, okay, if people are going to make a compelling argument, I, I don't think that's the one that they were.
- [41:40]
C
Compelling argument for what?
- [41:41]
B
That I have a feeling the compelling argument that you. I've heard you make it before. So I know it's basically Israel has a right to defend itself, that we as the people not at war should not be spending our time telling them how to conduct this war. And by the way, they weren't even a people anyway. This is a collection of Arabs that happen to share this land. The Israel Israelis have just as much of a right to from a historical
- [42:10]
C
context that they've also offered them a state at least six times.
- [42:15]
B
My beef on.
- [42:15]
C
Every time.
- [42:16]
B
Yeah, right. My beef on the way that people approach Israel, Palestine is that it's what my wife and I refer to as don't argue about the tea. So the argument is happening at the level of like the surface detail. Like the word Palestine wasn't first used or Palestinian wasn't used until 1967. It was a British protectorate before that. Ottoman Empire before that. It's. Or on the other side, like this is our ancestral homeland, we have a right to be here. And Israelis should, you know, leave. It's like, ah, that's not the argument.
- [42:48]
C
Sure, sure. So we can, we can punt all that if you want.
- [42:51]
B
Well, I, I think that to actually have. Unless. So there's two paths before us. Discuss policy on how to handle the war or discuss base assumptions as to whether Israel should exist or not. Because that seems to be the crux of the matter, that everything else is window dressing. And this is just a question of. Hey, dear person, hearing my voice right now, do you believe that Israel has the right to an ethnocentric state that it is for Jewish people? Because that at least with my. And this I'm very much not, not well educated here, but it is my understanding that there are Arabs in there. But if you were 2 million, there
- [43:32]
C
are 2 million who have been on the Supreme Court and who are doctors and lawyers.
- [43:35]
B
Is it true? And maybe you can just clear my ignorance.
- [43:37]
C
Sure.
- [43:38]
B
Is it true that if they just did a one for one vote that Jewish people would be outvoted by non Jews?
- [43:46]
C
No. Well, first off, okay, so this is going to be very complex. So if we were counting all the. Of all of the land, the historical biblical land of Israel, meaning the west bank and Gaza itself, the numbers start changing. But Palestinians, the only time the Palestinian people have ever been able to vote or have any autonomy over themselves is when Israel gave it to them in the Oslo accords in the 90s. Before that, they were always ruled by other people. That's one part. The other part is that before October 7, literally there was nobody in Israel. Israel. Nobody in, anywhere in anything close to mainstream Israel that was cared about or in politics that wanted anything to do with Gaza. Before 1967, it was part of Egypt.
- [44:29]
B
It's going to be disputed in the comments.
- [44:30]
C
Yeah, I mean, it's just there was nobody. I mean, like, there was nobody, Bibi. Nobody wanted anything to do with it. They left. They wanted nothing to do with it. Okay. There were, you know what? The sick. And there are many sick and twisted things that happened on October 7th. One of the most sick and twisted is that the people, the Israelis that lived in the Gaza area over there, they were all leftists because they wanted to live in some sort of coexistence with these people. And then what happened? And I went to some of the kibbutzes down there to see the devastation.
- [44:56]
B
And it's.
- [44:56]
C
To say it's unimaginable, isn't even close to what it really is. But one of the ways that they were able to kill so many people is that they had people that came from Gaza, they had work permits and they would come. And in many cases they worked with these people. A lot of them were agriculture, farmers. They worked with them for years and years, sometimes decades. And they knew how many people lived in each house, how many men, women, children. And they marked it on the doors so that the Hamas terrorists would then come in and then could kill everybody and know how many people they had to kill or where they might be or where the safe room was or a whole bunch of other stuff. But without getting into all of that, if you want, like what the political solution is or what's like the day after all of this, Hamas as it, as an organization needs to be destroyed. It needs. It is a terrorist organization that needs to be blown apart. That largely has been taken care of. There are very few rockets left. If you want like what does the day after look like in terms of structure? What does a government look like with the. The roughly 2 million people who live in Gaza? It probably. Well, it should be Egypt that basically takes Gaza. Sinai is right between Egypt proper and Israel. And Israel had Sinai, which it won in a war. It's like eight times bigger than Israel proper. They gave it up for a piece of paper for a peace deal that largely has existed for about 50 years, since right around when we were born. The thing is that Egypt, unfortunately, they don't want any of the Palestinians there. And nope, by the way, no Arab country wants any of the Palestinians. If anyone cared about the Palestinians. Right? Like if anyone believed that there was a genocide occurring, which there isn't. But if anyone believed that, why hasn't. There are 22 Arab nations as we talked about before. They have tons and tons of money. They have tons and tons of resources. They have 500 square mile. 500, what is it? 500 square miles of land, something. It's more than that. 500 million square miles of land. I think it is. You could put them all in Sinai. No Israeli is ever going to go there. No Jew is ever going to go there. No Christians ever going to go there. You could give them a country there. You want to give them a country? They have a country. It's called Jordan. Jordan is Palestinian majority actually and it's ruled by the Hashemite king, King Abdullah of Jordan. He is ruling an apartheid nation. The only nation, the only, literally the only nation in the Middle east that doesn't have apartheid is Israel. The Arabs have equal rights and again sit on the Supreme Court and have all the jobs in Lebanon. If you are Palestinian, you are not allowed to own a certain amount of land. You are not allow be a doctor or a lawyer or a series of other things. Again, people can Google all of this. So every other nation in the, the, the Maldives, you're only allowed to be Muslim to live there. That's not the way it is in Israel. So there's one nation that exists in the Middle east that is anything remotely close to liberal values or progressive ideology or anything else where women are treated well and gays are treated well and all the rest of it. And ironically that's the place that the progressives hate the. The most. So I guess Egypt has to take some responsibility for that. The problem is that Egypt has been building all These tunnels. That's why everybody doesn't want Israel to go in now to Rafah, which is the last border part, basically to Gaza and Egypt, because clearly Egypt has been defaulting on its peace agreement and helping a lot of this stuff be built. So that's a huge problem right there. And then I don't know exactly what you do with all of the west bank. It. These may be largely intractable problems, but I can tell you this. When I was there just a few months ago, I got in a car from a cab from Jerusalem to a suburb of Tel Aviv and I was in with an Arab Israeli. So he's an Arab Muslim, full citizen of Israel, and we talked about it. And he does not want to live anywhere else. He knows that he is a minority in that country, but he doesn't want to live anywhere else because he has more rights and more of an opportunity than literally in any other Arab nation. So it's a very weird. It's weird to say the least.
- [48:46]
B
Okay, so several questions.
- [48:48]
C
Yeah, I said a lot of things there.
- [48:49]
B
No, no, it's great. And thank you for helping to educate me on this. So Israel has a problem in that they border people, that some percentage of them obviously wish them harm. Why doesn't any of the surrounding areas. Why don't any of the surrounding areas want to assimilate Gaza?
- [49:15]
C
So meaning, why doesn't Egypt just want to take Gaza?
- [49:17]
B
Is Egypt the only other country that borders Gaza?
- [49:19]
C
Egypt is the only country that borders Gaza.
- [49:21]
B
Okay, so why won't.
- [49:22]
C
And by the way, Egypt had Gaza pre1967 and then they launched a war and lost and Israel got Gaza. And then Israel had Gaza from 67 until 2004. 5. And then they were. And there were about 8,000 Jews that lived there. That's it. That's what the settlements were. And they basically, in 2005, they were like, forget this. It's not going to work. We want nothing to do with these people. There is no such. They're not going to have peace or coexist. Let's just separate. And unfortunately, what they did is they built a wall that was basically a fence. I mean, I saw it. And you, you can watch the October 7th videos. They built a fence that had some barbed wire. The Egyptians. Have you ever seen what the, the Egypt Gaza border looks like? You should Google it sometime. They have massive concrete walls with huge amounts of barbed wire and they blew up tunnels and everything else. If the Israelis ever treated the Palestinians nearly as poorly as the Egyptians had, the world would be in a complete uproar. But in terms of geography, the only country that it borders. And again, Sinai is largely empty. Sinai is large. Yeah. If you can. That's the Egyptian border wall you're looking at right there. And then if you compare that right there, and that's just a portion of it, but you can see cement blocks, you can see multi layers of barbed wire, there's electronic surveillance, et cetera, et cetera. And they were blowing up underground towns, tunnels. And if you look from the October, October 7th videos of the wall, that is the wall. It was a fence that they had with Gaza. It was a, it was a far worse fence than you have at your house right here, which your gate is pretty damn impressive, by the way. Really cool. Whatever you paid for that, it was well worth it.
- [50:48]
B
I appreciate that.
- [50:49]
C
Yeah.
- [50:50]
B
Okay. So does Egypt. Initial statement about.
- [50:54]
C
No, they don't. No, they don't want them. They don't. I think I tweeted out the day after October 7th. I'm pretty sure you can find it. Maybe it was two days after like this all end. If, if, if they want to solve all of this right now. Well, I gave you one military solution, which is we should threaten Qatar because Qatar will just cut off the money and then that'll be that. But the other solution is if, if anyone really cares about the Palestinians. And my, my estimation now is they don't. This has nothing to do with the Palestinians. This has to do with taking out Israel. It has nothing to do with the Palestinians. If you cared about those 2 million Gazans, you could get them all to Sinai in three days. The Jews would never have anything to do with them. You could get all of the Qatari money to build them a thorough, a flat, thorough, a flourishing and thriving economy in Sinai. You could do it. You could use all of the technology that Israel did by turning a desert into green. You could do all of that in Sinai because Sinai is just basically a desert. But Egypt doesn't want it because they know they're going to import a huge amount of terrorists, a huge amount of people who would love to throw the overthrow the Egyptian regime and everything else. And that's why nobody does. That's why the Jordanians look up Black September from, I think 1972. They killed about 30,000 Palestinians in a day because Palestine Palestinians were upset with the Jordanian government. And about 30,000 in, I think it was a week actually. So it's like nobody really cares about them. This is, this is all just like a crude to take out this One tiny state that again is the size of New Jersey.
- [52:21]
B
Okay, so let me see if I understand your position. If you recognize your position, let me know that I understand your position perfectly. Otherwise, please correct the. There was a period. First of all, the Palestinian people have never had a state. They didn't start calling them Palestinians until something like 1967. By calling them them Palestinians, they are trying to trigger in public opinion the sense that they used to have a state and they're now being denied that state. The Egyptians who also share a border with the Palestinians do not want them because they believe that they would be importing terrorists people that would cause problems. So they have erected an even more aggressive wall than the Israelis. The Israelis won Gaza in a war.
- [53:16]
C
War.
- [53:17]
B
They stayed there for quite some time with about 6,000, 8,000 number 8,000 people. They then at in 2005 realized this is not worth a headache. So they retracted back out of Gaza. I've heard that they even dug up the graves of Israelis and so removed.
- [53:36]
C
They left greenhouses, they left infrastructure. There were wealthy Jews in America that donated millions of dollars to Gaza to help reconstruction and they basically brought burned the greenhouses and destroyed all the infrastructure.
- [53:46]
B
Okay, so Israel backs out. Palestinians destroy the infrastructure that they leave behind. And the reason that this part, I might be putting words in your mouth. So this is really where you're going to want to correct me. The reason that Qatar isn't going to build them a new settlement, though I can understand why Palestinians would be opposed to that because they don't want to move, as crazy as that may seem. Seem. And the reason Egypt isn't going to do it is for the same reason, which is they want to use the Palestinians as a ploy to get rid of Israel.
- [54:25]
C
Yes, it's, it really is as simple as that. It's not much more complex than that. Most of the Arab governments are not particularly good to their people. So every now and again if something starts up with Israel, it's like, ah, forget about all of your problems. Look what's going on. Look what those Jews are doing over, over there to those Arabs over there. And so they've become, I mean, in some ways it's the story of the Jews. They've just become the scapegoat in a game that is deeply dangerous and very difficult to live in. I don't know that any other nation imagine, you know, they've done the per capita version of this, but you know, they lost about 2,000 people on October 7th and still have, you know, however many hostage so if you were to extrapolate that they're a nation of about 8 million people, we're a nation of 320 million people. I don't remember how many that turns into, in Americans. But imagine if, let's say a hundred thousand Americans. Americans were killed in one day and another 20,000Americans were held hostage somewhere and we had rockets being fired in from another part of the country and still from that part for months now that has stopped because of the military operation. Imagine what, what we would be like as a nation right now. Not only security wise, but the psychology of the nation and everything else. Israel has largely managed again, I was there, like they're still out and about in Tel Aviv. They're still functioning as a nation. That is rather extraordinary actually, that they are able to deal with existential threats constantly. Like the most existential threats you can think of and still function in any kind of way is. I don't know what I can, I can't. I literally cannot imagine what we would be like if we were under that kind of pressure.
- [55:58]
B
Yeah, I mean that, that begs a bigger question of what our response would be. And I have a feeling, giving what. Given what we did in, in Iraq, where it was just completely unjustifiable, as far as I can tell, we'd go pretty hot and heavy.
- [56:15]
C
But I, I would say this, that, that any country that is attacked by a terrorist group and that has their people kidnapped and slaughtered and everything has every right to do whatever they want. I believe that. I believe that both ways.
- [56:26]
B
Do you want a second to reword that? That is okay.
- [56:28]
C
So yes, in the mo. Yes, I could re. I could shave that off by like 20%. Not. Not what? Whatever they want. But you have a right to defend your citizens, period. Oh, okay, so let me slightly switch it. No other country on earth would have, could have gone through what Israel gone through and then would be told, you also have to feed the people now who have your captives. You have to make sure they have running water and electricity and Internet and everything else. You have to take care of them. You're also not allowed to bomb certain buildings without warning them. No one in the history of warfare has done any of these things. It would only be the Jews. That would be said, okay, you can willfully. All a whole bunch of you can be killed and you have to care more about the people who are doing the killing than getting your own citizens back. That would be a cleaner way of saying.
- [57:10]
B
Yeah, so this is one of those.
- [57:11]
C
It would never happen. It would never happen. To Canada and it would never happen to Uganda and it would never happen to Japan or anything else going back
- [57:17]
B
to the Florida sheriff or whatever saying thank you for killing the guy. This is where words matter in the court of public opinion, man, you got to be careful. So people that would be critical of the, the, the, the. So I did a breakdown of your belief. She said, yes, that I understand your belief. So the people that would be critical of those beliefs, what are they critical of? What is the thing? If you were going to take best faith, give me the good faith people. Not somebody you think is being an but like the good faith people who legitimately understand the situation but just see it very differently. What is their beef?
- [57:54]
C
If you legitimately understand the history of the land and you legitimately understand you thousands of years of human history and the evolution of religion and everything else and how societies were built and how Western civilization appeared here and it wasn't by magic. It was through a lot of these, the ideas that were born in that part of the world and everything else. I don't know that. I genuinely don't know that. There's a lot of good faith arguments against anything that I said. The Palestinians were off when the Ottoman Empire obviously became the British Empire in that part of land. There was the British Mandate of Palestine. When the British were done in 1947, they said to the Arabs again, there were no Palestinians. They said to the Arabs and the Jews, let's split this thing up. The Jews were getting a tiny portion and they said yes. The Arabs said no and launched a war, lost a war, then lost territory. Seven Arab nations tried to destroy them. This has repeated throughout history many times. And then in the 2000s, several times they were offered a state. They have said no every time. They don't want a state. Arafat famous it's in Bill Clinton's book. Basically said to Bill Clinton when they were offered 97% of what they wanted with land swaps for the AM remaining 3% and they were going to divvy up Jerusalem, which is completely psychotic. You can go to Jerusalem right now and get on a bus with a woman in a burka and an ultra orthodox Jewish man and they are living there in peace. There is nothing remotely close to that in any other part of the Middle East. They don't, they don't want a state. I can't steel man their ideas actually because I don't think that they're. I think that they simply don't want Israel to exist. I think it's, it's not Much more complex sex than that. It's interesting. I think it's. I think it's an ancient hatred. It's like, it's like the first hatred that ever existed. And then I think it's. I think it's also. It's put on steroids by, by all of the bad ideas of leftism of now of that minorities are supposed to be oppressed. How is it possible that the Jews who have been oppressed and who have been holocausted and pogrommed and went through the Inquisition and all of these things, how is it that they still have survived and thrived and everything else. It doesn't fit the intersectional calculator and that, that actually breaks a lot of people's brains. And that's why you have these, these queers for Palestine when it's like well Palestine would be very different for queers and. But they think it makes sense. So I don't know that there's a way to steal man. Something that I think is fundamental. First off, I don't think you can steel man it because I don't. I think there's almost nobody on the other side of this argument that would even concede that what we just said there was even true in the first. The first place. That. So that I would say is a huge problem. I would say largely Israel just has to stop Argu making these arguments, period. They're trying to live in a very part difficult part of the world by, by the Western rules. And that's extremely difficult.
- [60:38]
B
Okay, so play that out. Be more aggressive, more violent. People that say you should be chill, just go in, be as precise as you can. You're not saying be willy nilly but go in, kill who you need to kill. Accept a certain amount of collateral damage. It is what it is.
- [60:56]
C
Is. Yeah, I, I don't think that's. I think every other nation understands that actually. And every other nation would do exactly that and every other nation would do much worse. They've got. They've done things they've.
- [61:06]
B
Careful with statements like that. You give people a reason to ignore the out of you that you do not make BL I as somebody who wants to see the best ideas win. Yeah, you shoot yourself in the foot when you say every country would do worse. Like that's.
- [61:20]
C
I don't, I don't think people up. I don't think that there's any reason to believe believe that any other country on earth would be asked to do the things that they are asked to do, nor could do the things that they are asked to do, nor would do the things they would ask to do. Fair. All right, fair. So I can. I can clean that up for you.
- [61:35]
B
So not for me. Like I. So I am a outcome for you for these. Yes.
- [61:41]
C
The wider.
- [61:42]
B
For those of us that are outcome obsessed. So. Okay, one more thing that as somebody who, um. You're a very smart person and I love smart voices out in the world.
- [61:55]
C
Uhoh.
- [61:56]
B
Yes. So the.
- [61:58]
C
What.
- [61:58]
B
What I will say is it. Learn the steel man. Because there is a great quote which you may know better than I, but it goes something like. He who does not know his opponent's views knows little of his own. Like if you're really gonna go for bat, go for bat. For the Israeli response. Response. Understanding. Okay, here's what the people that think that this is really dumb. This is what they think. And let me tell you why we can never do that. Because man, I'm. I'm on the fringes of this and I still feel like I've heard enough where I could give you a steel man of at least a basic non. Like this goes back a thousand years. I can't do that. I don't know the history well enough. But I can give you the basic steel man. Against your argument is what happened on a October 7th should be condemned without hesitation. It was absolutely abhorrent. However, you cannot kill as many people as you're killing. No matter what they did to Israel. The level of death and destruction, even if you knock knock, I'm going to kill you and then kill them, an hour later they still die. And even if it's. They're being used as human beings upset
- [63:06]
C
with Hamas by that.
- [63:07]
B
Yeah, but I'm just. I'm giving you the steel mint. Right. So you want to be able to make their best argument to be their best litigator and then dismantle the argument so they. Hey, even if Hamas is using our people as shields, they are not our people. Because they wouldn't say that using the Palestinian people as human shields. The average person in Palestine is just trying to live and to blow the shit out of them is going to be deeply problematic. And I can understand how.
- [63:41]
C
So what would be. What would be a better way to fight a war?
- [63:43]
B
Gotta let me finish the steel man.
- [63:45]
C
Yeah.
- [63:45]
B
Because it's like I can you. I believe this is where I hold myself accountable. I want to be able to litigate the other side so well that that person will say to me, yes, you understand my position perfectly.
- [63:58]
C
Yeah.
- [63:59]
B
One, when I do that, I'm like, okay, did Steel Manning that make me go, huh, I need to rethink this part of my own view. Is there something here that I should give on or whatever? And I, I, because I'm outcome focused, I'm like, I'm doing this because I have an outcome that I'm trying to get to like. So I'll sort of roughly period. That's the rough Steel, man. Terrible job. And anybody that can do a better one, I, I hear you. This is not my area of expertise. But I look at everything again, just doing this, call it thinking up from first principles. So I race from physics up to human psychology and then I start speaking out loud.
- [64:35]
C
Sure.
- [64:35]
B
So human psychology is such that if the Palestinian people do not want their children's lives to be better than their own, we are going to have a problem. And so we have to now at least zoom in on that. Is it that they don't believe their children will have a future because Israel has created these horrific conditions which people that seem like very cogent thinkers are saying. I think it's John Mearsheimer who's just like, what Israel is doing is absolutely out of order. This is insane. They have created an open air prison. It is apartheid. I don't understand that argument well enough. That's why I'm not even sure like
- [65:14]
C
if Israel yeah, there is apartheid in Gaza and that no Jews are allowed to live there.
- [65:18]
B
Okay, this, this is where I unfortunately can't be helpful. I don't know enough about it. But anyway, people that I consider very cogent are like, they give me reason to say, oh, we need both sides to be Steel man, so we can actually figure out what's really going on. But it's anyway what I know to just be at the highest level possible. True. Is if the Palestinians don't want their children's lives to be better than their own, you get into weird territory. Now the question becomes is, do they not believe their children's lives will be better for religious reasons? That oh, we know that they will go to heaven immediately and they bypass Judgment Day. Again, this is not my area of expertise. I don't know the Quran, but something along those lines that a headline reading level is that the problem? And so they're. Because they know their kids will go straight to heaven and if they die here, things get better for them and that can be leveraged to get rid of Israel. Is that the issue or is the issue that is just such horrible conditions. Now when I look around, again, not an expert, but when I look around the rest of the Middle east, which I've been to, not a lot, but I've been to. And it's like, like, hey, you, like, you would expect anywhere you meet lovely people who want their kids lives to be better and they're focused on how do we improve education. And is it, to a Western eye, weird to see women in a burka walking next to women in jeans? Yes, it's unexpected. And I don't know how to read that from a Western perspective, but I can see that people with the same religion are having outcomes where they're thinking about their kids and they want their kids lives to be better and they're planning generations down the line. So I'm like, well, we have a solution where it is very, very, very possible that the religion is tied up in exacerbating and creating a problem. But there are ways. And I mean, even just going back to Trump and saying Abraham Accords cool, like, let's get back to that. Let's figure that out. But I, I am not the person to put anything on the table other than knowing what I know about human nature. We have to find a way for Palestinians to care about the future of their kids. Again, I'm not close enough to tell you why they are caught up in the position that they're. I, I don't know why they're in the position that they're in because that was. I don't know that they're caught up. They could be. This could be of their own making. But if someone of your degree of sophistication and knowledge can go, here's this bundle as I see it, in a way where they go, yes, you understand my position perfectly, then it feels like it can be addressed.
- [67:51]
C
Sure. So I complete. I actually totally appreciate that. And it's not lost on me what you're saying. It's interesting because when you're on this side of the interview, what I'm always trying to do is I usually. And that's why I've said the phrase bumper sticker a couple times. I'm usually trying to do like, here's like kind of like the big thing. And then let's move into like a million different things so I can absolutely make the steel man argument that you made there. So we don't need to repeat that. I would say that the con. The problem. Problem in this case, the problem with that is that there is. There is literally, I would say, and I don't think this is an exaggeration, there is nothing the Israelis can do that will satisfy the mob that now exists. It doesn't matter if they knocked on a door. And every time they knocked on a door, an Israeli soldier was shot, as opposed to just sending a drone in or doing anything else. There is no amount of Israelis that would be too many dead, that the. That the other side would be like, all right, this was a bit much. I saw. I saw the 4:47 minute video, the private 47 minute video. Like when you see a video of someone being beheaded and then someone picking up their head and laughing and walking away or calling their mother, mom, I just killed seven Jews. And the mother's screaming and undulating and all of that stuff. And they didn't say, I killed Israelis, they said, I killed Jews. They would have just as gladly killed Bernie Sanders as they would kill, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu. So I think that. And that. And that partly because it is tied into religion in a way, is the really difficult thing for people to understand. At some point, you have to defend your people and your way of life. You can do everything you can to do that as morally and responsibly as possible and everything else. And I believe they've done that in ways that I do believe. I don't think it's an exaggeration. No other army in the world would be asked to do or could. Could do. I think that that's empirically true. If a whole bunch of terrorists burst into France and did this, France could do whatever they wanted to Belgium. And people would just be like, that's it. Belgium lost control of their border. So I don't. So the weird part of Steel Manning their argument in this case is there's no end to it. There's no end to. Okay, so they could do this different. Okay, yes, you're right. This little operation in a town, in a place that I've never. That no one's ever heard of before, and no one. All of these people out on the streets are screaming about, no one had heard of Rafa three months ago. All of these things. It's why the narrative. It's so incredible the way the narrative flips in front of our eyes that the most unimaginable terrorist attack happens. There's still babies. There's at least one baby, probably not alive at this point. We don't know. They might have raped women that could be having babies at this point. We're past nine months of this thing now. There's unimaginable horrors happening. And they're the ones that are told, now your existence is up for debate. So let's debate whether your existence should exist. Exist, you know, whether your country should exist at all. How you fight a war, when you fight a war. We're also going to send mobs to synagogues in Los Angeles and in Dublin and in like. So they're under attack on every possible way. And so I think there's a weird waste of time to some extent with Steel Manning because it's like, okay, offer them this, offer them this, offer them. It's like offering a peace deal. We offered you 97%. You don't want it. Oh, we offered you 90, 99%. Oh, the, the 3%. That was the problem. We offered a land swap on that. That was no good either. And at some point you, you just go, it's enough. And I think that's what they tried to do with Gaza in the first place. Again, you can look at videos, the idea that they were somehow in this open air prison. First off, if you think it was an open air prison, why didn't Egypt open the door? And no one ever asked Egypt to open the door. I literally tweeted that out on October 8th. Egypt could have just opened the door. That would have been it. You could have brought all the people, people over, figured it out. They didn't do that and no one asked them to do it. Right. But you can go. It's funny because a lot of these videos got deleted. If you looked at videos that pro Palestinian accounts were tweeting out for the weeks after October 7th, it was all like, look at our beautiful Gaza they're destroying. And you see luxury hotels, you see restaurants on the water. You see, I mean, they have the same beach as Tel Aviv, which is one of the most beautiful beaches in the world. They had all of the opportunity for all of that and they were doing it largely. They had five star hotel hotels there. It wasn't an open air prison like Auschwitz was an open air prison. It's a little bit different. Gazans are not starved. It is not the most overpopulated place on earth. All of these things, these are just lies. So at some point you can just stop playing along with that. So I'm not saying it's not worth Steel Manning. Of course, it always is. And of course it is in the rare moments that in this case you can find someone on the other side that honestly wants to discuss what really is going on there. Unfortunately, either because of algorithms or tik tok or something else or, or I think a lot of the, the unfortunate ways that the left took over the institutions in the United States. So. So that there are so many young people in this country who are so confused. And again, it's why you have trans drag queens who would be the first people to be beheaded in Gaza, you know, telling children that they should be queers for Palestine. I think that at some point you're just like, okay, enough of that. We're just going to do what we have to do.
- [72:59]
B
It's interesting. So I have a different take on this. And this is exactly how I felt during the Terence Howard, Joe Rogan thing, which is talking to scientists off camera. They're frustrated. Why do I have to deal with this? This is so absurd.
- [73:18]
C
And meaning that he went on there and said like, yeah, a bunch of stuff about patents and it sounds like
- [73:23]
B
it really wasn't debunked. And I spoke to Eric Weinstein and I said, eric, look, this has reached a level of cultural awareness where even if you think every word out of his mouth is ludicrous, you still, if you want to help the public at large get a better idea set to get behind, then you're going to have to go refute these ones one by one. Now, Eric is. I just. I could not be more impressed with him. He went on with such kindness. Was he a little frustrated talking to Immortal? Yes. So people point out that he sighed a couple times, but, you know, we'll forgive him. But he, he went through point by point and said, look, here are the things that are good, here are the things that I think are problematic, and there's way more problem than there was good stuff. But he went through it. And that allowed for a national conversation to happen around the base assumptions. Like, dear Terence Howard, you have these whatever, four base assumptions. And let me show how three of them are bad and one of them is good. The three that are bad just absolutely destroy 98% of everything you're saying. And let's focus on the 2%, but let's not be delusional about where we go wrong. And this is, I think, the only way forward on Israel, Palestine. It is entirely possible that this just is unsolvable, that it is right. There's so much human hate. Bear with me one second, I'll wrap this up. But there's so much human hate. It just. We may not be able to get to the other side side. Fair enough. But at least if we start with okay, person that I'm having this debate with, do you believe this is what I got from Norm. Norm Finkelstein on Lex with Destiny. And I Forget the other two people. But Norm said at the beginning, Israel shouldn't exist. And so I was like, then that's the only thing to talk about. Because every word out of your mouth on the other side, he's just going to be like, but that yields an outcome where Israel still exists. So this doesn't make sense. Is nonsensical. And so once you lay out somebody's base assumptions, oh, your entire worldview is predicated on Israel shouldn't exist. Great. Then that's the only thing that we have to talk about. Talking about borders and two states, none of that matters because we know the only outcome that they will accept is that by forcing people to say, you understand my position perfectly, what you're doing is getting them to confess. Oftentimes the thing that they, they don't want to say, like, I want to ask Egypt, why the wall? Why won't you let them in? Is your base assumption that they're terrorists? Is your base assumption that they don't want in and you're protecting them from Egyptians, like, tell me why? And once you get them to say,
- [75:58]
C
you should try to find some people to have that conversation.
- [76:00]
B
Right. You're not. But at least now we pull these things into light and we can say, Egypt won't comment. So people will draw their own conclusions. This is. These are the things that they say, what they're fighting for, what they have about beef against. I can state their position in a way that they will say back to me, yes, that's my position. And cool. Now we argue those things. And if somebody is acting out of accordance with those things, then we know, ah, this is not sincere.
- [76:28]
C
Let me try to. I don't know that, that I've talked about this so personally before, but I grew up around Holocaust survivors on both sides of my family. My uncle's father, my uncle Jerry, who married my dad's sister, had the tattoo survivor. I heard all of the stories of people being killed and where his wife had to hide under in a farm and all these unbelievable things. And I grew up, and it wasn't just my family. My parents, friends, families all had this survivors, some didn't have any grandparents left, all these other things. I think at some point, if that's what the story is, if that's what the story is, you've heard that before from your ancestors, how quickly things turn, all of this stuff, then at some point, the time for steel, man, in a time of absolute crisis, when 2000 of your people are dead and there's all these hostages Isn't that effective? Again, I'm not saying it's not worth it. It's interesting you brought up Eric, though, because I was thinking before, when you mentioned Steel Manning, which he was the one that sort of popularized that I heard Brett. Was it Brett first? Maybe.
- [77:25]
B
I think so.
- [77:26]
C
It literally might have even been on my show. But the point is the idea that you could concretely lay out your opponent's ideology or their arguments, Eric was obviously a big proponent of that always. And so when, when the IDW was blowing up and at the peak of that whole thing with Jordan Peterson and everybody, and Eric was constantly trying to steel, man, the arguments of the left, I always enjoyed it. I enjoyed the intellectual exercise. I. You're extremely good at it. So it's nice when somebody's, like, really cogent and thoughtful with it. It's extremely nice to hear because it's like. It's like. It's like a straight line that has some nice little. Little roundabout ways in it. Right. But I always used to sit to Eric, if we'd go out to dinner after or something else, I'd be like, do you think this is going to stop any of this? And I think I was. And he would always kind, I don't want to speak for him, but he would kind of be like, I don't know, but I think it's worth doing something like that, which I think you would probably agree with.
- [78:17]
B
I have a slightly different answer to
- [78:19]
C
that if you're going somewhere. So I definitely want to hear your answer on that. But my point was, do you think that making arguments with all trying to really concretely lay out what these people's arguments are, do you think it will stop what is coming? And I would say it has not stopped any of it. That things are significantly worse in this country, that the ideologies are significantly worse. Just look at the Ivy Leagues and look at the rallies. And now there are literally Hezbollah flags being raised in New York City and tearing down of our monuments and all of those things, and none of it stopped any of it. So I'm not saying it's not worth it, but I don't know that it is worth it. I just would put it that way. But actually, I want to hear what you said.
- [78:57]
B
Well, so this is where base assumptions come in. So you can understand me. If you understand the false following belief that I think a person's frame of reference controls everything about their life, it will control what makes your heart race. So if you think. If you think getting promoted is dumb, then you won't even try if you think getting promoted is amazing. When you get a promotion, it will literally change you physiologically for a moment. Like, you'll be excited, your heart will be faster. But that came down to frame of reference. Your people's frames of reference entirely control their thoughts on America. Their frame of reference entirely controls their thoughts on Israel, Palestine. All of these things are far less about what's happening and far more about what people think about what's happening. What people think about what's happening is controlled entirely by a set of ideas and ideas and values, just to differentiate between the two. And my belief is that if the cultural instruments that we all play. So I play two cultural instruments. One is this podcast, and the other is I make video games. And in both of those, I try to address ideas that I hope will change somebody's frame of reference, which will change not what they look at, but what they. They see. And if my whole thing is about personal empowerment, so if I can help your life get better by having you look at a terrible thing and seeing the path to something useful in that, then I'll feel like, cool, I did not waste my time on planet Earth. So the reason that I focus on steel manning an argument is not for even necessarily the people. Like, take Israel, Palestine, either side, dear boys and girls, you're in the game of influencing people's frame of reference. And if you can, accurately. So if I'm Palestine, I want to influence the world to believe that Israel shouldn't exist. And so I need to be able to steel man the argument of people who believe Israel should exist so that I can make sure that I can defeat that. If I am Israel, I want to make sure that people understand that I have a right to defend myself. And I'm perfectly happy to be neighbors with, with these people, but I'm going to respond disproportionately to ensure people don't with me. And I want to make sure people understand where I'm coming from and all the things that happen. This, this is a war of ideas. Once people understand this is a war of ideas, I don't see a better rhetorical pursuit other than in the world where you and I are going to get clipped to and people are gonna do what they're gonna do. Yeah, but if on balance, people see me over and over and over, walk through a steelman to where the other person's like, yes, you understand my position. It's like, cool. I'm not saying what I'm saying now because I don't understand. So I just lop off a huge amount of people that would say, well, he doesn't get it. Nope, that's not true. Now I have the thing of I'm gonna tell you what my end goal is, and then I'm gonna be judged by efficacy as I move through towards that end goal. Part of why I want people to run this experiment is when you steel man their argument and they say, yes, you're getting them to tell you what their North Star is. So cool. I know what your North Star is. One that is often a confession that will change a lot of people's minds. Just because once, for me, as a swayable person, if somebody says Israel shouldn't exist now, I'm like, whoa, I'm out. I'm not on your team. So that's where it becomes really important to run that exercise. I get it. For people like you that have probably done this a gazillion times, it just gets fucking exhausting. No, but I think we're all in a war for ideas. Well, we are.
- [82:49]
C
And we all, by the way, we're all. We're all different actors in that war. We're different players in this game, right? If it's a video game, we're all different players. And some of us have been playing the game for a longer time, or some of us play it a little bit differently, or if it was literally a war, you have infantry and you have Air Force and you have tanks, and you have all these different things. So all of us are act at it in different ways. I think that there are. You know, I used to hear this Art Jordan and I got into this a couple times where sometimes people would say to him, him, when you do all of your talks or you give your lectures or the biblical series, everything, it's all so beautifully thoughtful and it's just perfect orchestra of brilliance and everything else. But then on Twitter, you're too abrasive or something. And I was once at a dinner with him. I don't think I'm speaking out of school when I say this. I won't say anyone else that was there, but there was this big debate at the table about 15 people having this debate about how Jordan tweeted tweets. And most people at the table were saying, he's too aggressive on Twitter. He's got to tone back Twitter because he's going to lose a little bit of the baby with the bathwater on this thing. And I took the counter argument, because my argument was, you're telling the person who has changed more minds and done more good for the world than anyone, certainly, that I've ever met. But it's not even that I have the privilege of knowing him. It's even if I was outside of this, the amount of good that I have seen this man do empirically do the lives that he has turned out of, got off drugs and repaired family things and got jobs and all of the stuff that if every now and again he throws out something that's a bit much, says this for, you know, this about a trans whatever or this, that it's like. It's like saying to Donald Trump the first time around, just do it the way we want you to do it. Yes, you're largely right about the stuff, but could you just control some of the other stuff? And I find it hard, hard to say to the guy who did the thing that everyone said couldn't, couldn't be done, do it a little bit more our way. That, I think, is what the maybe, like, the tension is between the two positions. To me, there has to be a little of that. The teeth have to be shown a little bit every now and again. You have to show you kind of are over it. You can always put your best foot forward and do all of that. I certainly try to do it all the time on my show. And as I said, sometimes when I'm on this side of it, a little of that can be lost, for sure, because we're trying to do a lot of stuff. And I also don't want to. I want to, as the guest, want to be respectful of wherever you want to go and everything else. But I think that that's basically the same argument that they were making to Trump. It's the same argument that I've heard them make to Jordan. In a weird way, it's the same argument they're making to Israel. Just, like, do it. Yeah. You've done something extraordinary. You took a tiny sliver of desert in the most inhospitable place on Earth. You made it flourish. You took a people who had been been epically oppressed in ways that are unimaginable, like some of whom were Holocaust survivors who then had to move from Europe and ended up in the desert where nobody lived and turned it into an oasis. And also, every now and again, your children to be killed and just behave the way we want you to, or just don't speak exactly like that, and then we'll kind of like you more. And I, I just don't think that that works. And I say all of that notwithstanding the absolutely cogent, beautiful argument that you
- [86:02]
B
made right there, this has been wonderful, man. Where can people follow you?
- [86:07]
C
Oh, my God. Well, this week I'm just wandering around Los Angeles trying not to get killed by homeless people. But besides that, in the midst of all of this, we didn't get to talk about it, but I did start a tech company because I wanted to fight Big Tech. So I started Locals, which was basically a way that you could subscribe and have your fans support you outside of big Tech. So I started locals.com, we eventually merged with Rumble. We're basically the only sort of alternate estate real rails, you know, outside of YouTube and really Amazon AWS. That's where Rumble really is going in the next version of all of this, the Rumble cloud and everything else. So people can go to Rum, they can go to Rumble, but they can go to rubinreport.locals.com and that's where I built my community. Those are the people who support me and allow me to say all of these crazy things. I love it. Yeah.
- [86:50]
B
All right, everybody, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace.