Is There A Difference Between Loving Someone and Being In Love? | Tom & Lisa Bilyeu (Replay)

Summary

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Impact Theory: Is There A Difference Between Loving Someone and Being In Love?

Host: Tom & Lisa Bilyeu
Air Date: October 19, 2023

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Overview

In this insightful episode of Impact Theory (Replay: Relationship Theory), Tom and Lisa Bilyeu dive deep into the perennial relationship question: Is there a difference between loving someone and being in love with them? Responding to vulnerable listener questions, they explore the boundaries between love, passion, and commitment, and unpack how long-term relationships evolve over time. Throughout, Tom and Lisa share personal anecdotes, scientific insights, and practical advice, aiming to illuminate the complexities and beauty of romantic relationships.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Difference Between Loving and Being In Love (01:05–04:00, 04:11–09:56)

• Opening Dilemma: Lisa kicks off with a "Would You Rather": never experience love or never experience passion? Both Tom and Lisa wrestle with the definitions, debating whether passion equates to physical attraction and if love can exist without it.

  • Tom's Perspective: “I would rather love without passion. Like a best friend… but I would not just want physical passion.” (02:44)
  • Lisa’s Perspective: Being "in love" is defined by the feeling of being “on fire” for your partner, not just physically, but emotionally—“When I see you in the room, my heart…throbbing hard.” (03:09)

• Listener Question: Cody writes in struggling to distinguish between loving his partner and being in love after two years, highlighting the confusion and pain when the feelings don’t “match up.”

  • Tom advises unequivocally: “This is not a tough situation. This is brutal. But it’s not hard to know what to do… The very simple answer is immediately break up.” (05:53)
  • Tom recalls a recurring nightmare of being in a loveless marriage as a formative fear for him.

• Mom’s Definition of Love: Tom shares his mother’s perspective: “Love is when you feel something for somebody that is so intense, raw, amazing that you’re convinced no one else in the world has ever felt like you feel.” (08:19) He likens early love to a cocaine-like brain state—"one of life's great joys," but notes it evolves over time.

2. Sustaining Relationships Beyond Passion (09:58–13:05, 14:20–16:45)

• Lisa on Evolution: The thrill of early relationships can't be sustained forever; the relationship must transition to a deeper, more stable bond. New phases can be "more beautiful" if both partners anticipate and nurture growth.

  • Quote: “How do we still keep the fire burning? It's going to evolve…you have to look forward to the next phase. If all you're doing is looking back, that's scary.” (10:12)

• Tom on Reciprocation and Healing: Mutuality is essential—“The deep sense of well-being comes from being in love with someone that is equally in love with you.” (11:50)
  When heartbreak happens, Tom uses the metaphor: “You have a wound, like a knife in your body. You cannot begin to heal until you deal with the sucky part of pulling it out and, and then actually healing.” (13:05)

3. Can You Fall Back in Love? (14:36–19:13)

• Listener Asks: Can two people reignite love after both admit they're not currently in love but want to try?
  • Tom’s “Dust Settling” Concept: If real, reciprocated love was there before, "dust” (resentments, annoyances) can obscure feelings, but wiping it away—through forgiveness, vulnerability, and renewed connection—can restore love.
  • Scene from “Unbreakable”: The act of waking a partner for comfort, though vulnerable, is how bonds deepen.
  • Biochemistry: Tom references the role of oxytocin and vasopressin in bonding—some people are genetically more predisposed to long-term pair bonding, citing prairie vole studies.
  • Lisa's Caveat: “If you just realize, wow, we're actually not really in love anymore and we never really have been—break up.” (19:13)

4. Handling Patchy Connection in Long-term Relationships (19:13–28:12)

• Lisa’s Strategy: Recognizing and communicating patterns of disconnection strengthens bonds. She shares her process of flagging early signs of emotional distance and being proactive with Tom.

  • Quote: “I need to identify it, I need to understand why it’s happening, what I’m feeling. Then I need to talk to you about it, because holding off…I know me so well: by Thursday, I’m gonna break.” (21:07)

• Tom’s View: Communication is the “one word” solution: “Communicate. There it is.” (26:09)

• Managing Expectations: They discuss the dangers of turning sweet gestures into expectations.

  • Lisa's Kettle Story: After Tom forgot to prep the kettle, Lisa recognized she’d begun to expect the gesture and realized the need to “keep the joy” rather than let it become an unspoken obligation. (30:13–33:33)

5. Listener Q&A and Relationship Maintenance Tips

Rebuilding Connection After Drifting (36:15–41:21)

• Date Nights and Lists: Lisa recommends making lists of activities that brought you together and intentionally setting aside time for each other—e.g., repeating first dates, preparing conversation prompts.

  • Lisa: “One thing that we do on every anniversary is we redo our first date.” (38:54)

• Tom on Intimate Interaction: “You need to be together. But…there’s also no substitute for real, intimate interaction.” (37:12)

• Role of Biology: Tom highlights how life events (like having kids) reshape the relationship, and how understanding neurochemical changes can help manage expectations.
  “Women need to feel loved to have sex and men need to have sex to feel loved—a gross generalization but it’s a starting point for understanding disconnects.” (41:21)

Cultivating Communication and Self-Awareness (44:48–48:08)

• Communication Was Learned: Tom and Lisa were “moronic” when they started—awareness and communication grew with time and effort.

  • Tom: “A fool never learns. A smart man learns from his mistakes. And a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.” (45:53)

• Lisa on Self-Awareness: Once she understood her own needs and patterns, she could express them and prevent recurring issues.

• Business and Relationship Growth: Running a business together forced both to develop emotional maturity—failure and teamwork build resilience and honesty.

  • Tom: “You have to confront weaknesses…develop the ability to stare nakedly at your inadequacies without being emotionally destroyed by it.” (48:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On True Love:
  • “Love is when you feel something for somebody that is so intense, raw, amazing that you’re convinced no one else in the world has ever felt like you feel.” — Tom's mom, shared by Tom (08:19)
• On Relationship Hell:
  • “Being with somebody who doesn’t love you like you love them… That is a hell on earth that is so unique and painful.” — Tom (14:20)
• On Breaking Patterns:
  • “If I’ve done it four times and I can’t see a pattern, shame on me.” — Lisa (23:03)
• On Expectations:
  • “The second it becomes an expectation, I think you’ve removed everything that initially started as something sweet.” — Lisa (31:49)
• On Emotional Resilience:
  • “The single most important thing… is the ability to stare nakedly at your inadequacies without being emotionally destroyed by it.” — Tom (48:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:05–04:00: “Would You Rather” opener: Love vs. passion
• 04:11–09:56: Listener question on distinguishing between love and being in love
• 09:58–13:05: Evolving relationship phases; moving past infatuation
• 13:05–16:45: Can you convince yourself to be in love? Addictiveness of feeling loved
• 16:45–19:13: Trying to reignite love (“dust settling”); science of bonding
• 19:13–28:12: Tips for staying emotionally connected & managing expectations
• 28:12–36:10: “Would You Rather” segment – relationship expectations & disappointments
• 36:15–41:21: Listener Q: Rebuilding connection after 27 years; date nights and rituals
• 41:21–44:48: Science of relationship changes; intimacy and biological changes
• 44:48–48:08: Self-awareness, communication, and honesty — how to get better over time
• 48:08–49:51: Running a business together and its effect on emotional maturity

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Podcast Tone & Final Thoughts

Throughout this episode, Lisa and Tom are open, candid, and willing to discuss even their own relationship missteps. The tone is supportive and pragmatic, with both hosts encouraging vulnerability, direct communication, self-awareness, and continuous improvement. They repeatedly stress that deep, lasting love requires effort, honesty, and a commitment to growing both as individuals and as a couple.

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If you’re interested in relationship growth, finding clarity between ‘love’ and ‘being in love,’ or seeking practical couple’s strategies, this episode is filled with relatable, actionable insights.

Transcript

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[Lisa]

Welcome. Relationship theory. Let's do it. All right. I need to psych myself up.

[Tom]

Wow. She just battered her toe, by the way, like, right before we started, so.

[Lisa]

All right, guys, thank you for joining us today. I know it's Tuesday, but we try to keep the same time. This man's busy tomorrow. What am I doing tomorrow? I don't know, but do submit your.

[Tom]

I don't even remember now what day this is supposed to be.

[Lisa]

And I'm trying to get to, like, the quick question. Okay, so we've been told not to ramble at the beginning, so here we go. Would you rather answer with us, Guys, Drop in the comments. Would you rather never experience love or never experience passion?

[Tom]

Whoa.

[Lisa]

Well, that's a good one.

[Tom]

Wow. You know, my honest answer is I would never. I would rather never experience.

[Lisa]

I don't know if I could. Do you think that we could be in love without having the passion in the first place? Yes, I could love you, but I don't know if I'd be in love with you.

[Tom]

What?

[Lisa]

Like, the passion. To me, that's what being in love is.

[Tom]

Yeah, but I think this is, like, not passion for each other, but passion for something. That's how I'm gonna read that. Because love covers. Yeah, but that's why it's a. Would you rather.

[Lisa]

It's gotta be about the relationship. Right on, people.

[Tom]

No, that's not how I read it. I think it's. It's a more interesting thing because, like, that's so nuanced between passion for each other and love for each other. Not that I don't think There's a difference. There is, but that's a far more nuanced. To be passionate for each other but not in love. Now then I would rather love than passionate. God, that sounds terrible even to say it. Like, I. I could not finish that sentence. But to have.

[Lisa]

You can't even give an answer.

[Tom]

No, I'm giving my answer. I would. I would rather love without passion. Like a best friend.

[Lisa]

Right.

[Tom]

But versus somebody. Like, I read passion to be physical. And I would not just want physical passion.

[Lisa]

Yeah, I guess I took.

[Tom]

Because that's like intensity each other. That's not enough is how I took it. I don't know what that means.

[Lisa]

Well, like I said, if. If I had to.

[Tom]

But define passion for your significant other.

[Lisa]

I'm on fire for you. When I see you in the room, my heart.

[Tom]

Right.

[Lisa]

Like throbbing hard.

[Tom]

So then throbbing hard. Wow. I thought we were talking about something else here, but. So tell me though, what's the difference between that and love?

[Lisa]

I think you can absolutely have the. The fire for someone and not be in love with them. Think of like.

[Tom]

I agree, but so to me, the fire is physical. To you it's not.

[Lisa]

No, it's not. Like the butterflies and they're like.

[Tom]

Yeah, that to me sounds like love. Like passion to me. I will say, in fact, give me a synonym for me. The synonym for passion in this case that you're asking me is intensity.

[Lisa]

So what's mine?

[Tom]

Yeah, give me a synonym so I know what you're thinking.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Tom]

All right, then I win by default.

[Lisa]

There it is. All right, let's get into the first question guys we're answering.

[Tom]

All I see is I agree with Tom. Throbbing laugh out loud. Yeah, that was actually pretty funny.

[Lisa]

All right, we're getting to the first question.

[Tom]

Let's do it.

[Lisa]

All right, this is from Cody. I've come to a point in my relationship with a question, do I love her or am I in love with her? Comes up after two years in the relationship. I've not known there was a difference and thought that if I loved her enough, it would just turn into being in love. Or at least I thought I loved her more than I have anyone else. And I have no reason not to be in love with her. My question is, do you believe there's a difference between loving someone and being in love? And if that's too. Is loving someone so much that you want to make them the happiest ever, even if you feel like you are not sure of what makes you happy a good reason to propose? FYI, that is exactly what I did. And now a year after proposing, I still don't feel completely happy. But know that she's an amazing person, is truly in love with me. I don't want to just give up on the relationship altogether, but I am at a crossroads and feelings because I don't know what being in love is.

[Tom]

Can I just take a second to thank everybody who sends in amazing questions like this? This is so raw, vulnerable, beautiful and amazing. And I think the kind of real shit that people go through. This is incredible.

[Lisa]

I've actually got a bit more to the question.

[Tom]

Oh my God.

[Lisa]

It's even more intimate.

[Tom]

It's in chapters.

[Lisa]

I've caused her a lot of pain already to the point where she gave the ring back and said, when I know what I want, she'll be here. We still live together and while we know it will be tough, we've decided to take a step back and just be boyfriend and girlfriend and get back to feelings when we are dating or that when we were dating. Any kind of perspective that you would have on this I would be forever grateful for as I have talked with my parents and friends, along with my, with, along with her sister. And everyone is more than supportive and trying their best to be unbiased, but see it as a tough situation.

[Tom]

This is not a tough situation. This is brutal. But it's not hard to know what to do in my opinion. And the very simple answer is immediately break up. Like I, I can't fathom being in a relationship where I was like, you're amazing. I love, I love you so much like that that, that is literally my nightmare. As a kid I had a recurring nightmare about this which tells me that I, I think I was picking up on something in my parents relationship who they've since divorced. Like I really think that is the root of why. As a kid at like 14, I had this recurring nightmare of being in a loveless marriage. I was 14, so I've only ever had two recurring nightmares. One, I'm in a barn and an owl is swooping down on me. And I become the owl as I get closer to me and it's super weird. And then the other one is being in a loveless marriage and I've had them.

[Lisa]

I love how those two look.

[Tom]

I don't know why, but those are my two recurring.

[Lisa]

If there's any therapists out there, please let me know what an owl represents

[Tom]

so that like, because that has haunted me for so long, under no circumstances would I ever be in a marriage that wasn't like, so I have a tattoo, which, obviously, you know this for you guys, be very weird if you didn't know. And it. It's like the four things that matter to me, which is interesting, because love and passion are there, which is. But for me, that's intensity. And so if I didn't have both that, like, deep love of, like, I would die for this person. And you, like, give me those butterflies and that, like, just crazy connection that I feel to you. That. And I think reciprocation is a huge part of love. So let's start with that. So, like, even by my own definition of love, they're not truly in love because it's not equally reciprocated. And then passion, for me is that intensity. So that. That feeling that you were describing of, like, there's, like, magnetism, like, you were just throbbing on. Yes. Throbbing hard, I believe was the. The exact quote. And that, like, that level of intensity is one of life's great joys. And because I really believe that that's out there for anybody that's willing to put in the work, to find it and to cultivate it, because I did not feel that for you on day one. Like, that's one of those things that you build and you found those flames and you obsess and, like, you do all the things to really create that in your life, but when it's there, it is fucking magical. And so my mom gave me the greatest definition of love I have ever heard in my life. And it goes like this. And I wish this on everyone and to settle for anything less, because I don't mind being alone. Like, put me in context. I don't mind being alone. So, like, for me, that's not, like, some big scary thing, but my mom's definition of love goes like this. Love is when you feel something for somebody that is so intense, raw, amazing that you're convinced no one else in the world has ever felt like you feel. And that is exactly how I felt about you. In fact, when my mom said that, I'd never articulated it out loud, but I was like, all of a sudden, I got romantic comedies. I understood, like, crazy love movies, Last of the Mohicans, all that. Like, I got it. And I was thinking, like, there's no way anyone else has ever felt like this because nothing would get done. Like, you were the end all. Be. All of, like, my attentions, my focus, my obsession. And that stage of love on an FMRI looks exactly like cocaine. So. And that's how I felt. So that's such a beautiful. And it's a phase, but it's such a beautiful phase that to not experience that. And then on the other side of that, which I think is actually something more beautiful, which is that really like long lasting, deep bond, but without the fate of intensity because I still feel that super magnetic draw to you. But it's very different. It's not the distracting cocaine like thing.

[Lisa]

Right.

[Tom]

It's, it's a deep pair bonding.

[Lisa]

And I think that sometimes. And it seems like he's also trying to get back to that first feeling of when they first date.

[Tom]

In the beginning, it didn't sound like

[Lisa]

it was ever like when we were dating.

[Tom]

Yes. But in the beginning was it at

[Lisa]

least from what he says, take a step back and just be boyfriend and girlfriend and get back to our feelings when we were dating. And I think that this is one thing that I was always paranoid about and that you really helped me through is that when you first dating someone like that first month or two, maybe six months, like, it can be so exhilarating, right? You're finding out new things about them. They're doing things that are surprising you don't expect and that can be so like just, you know, all consuming. And like you said, you do a brain scan, you can actually look at the two brains next to each other. It looks like they've done a hit of cocaine. It's that effective of the brain. And over time that starts to diminish. And I think for us it was like, we recognize that you can't sustain a relationship for 20, 30, 40 years in that same state. So what is that next chapter for us? How do we still keep the five burning? But it's not ever going to feel like it was when we were first dating. It's going to evolve. And I think some people hold onto that so much because they don't think of the next phase and then how that can actually be more beautiful. We've really looked into like how our relationship now is better than it was. Right. On a different scale, being able to be 100% comfortable and I'm all in with you. And when we first start dating, like, there's those protective mechanisms that say, like, well, don't go too much, don't give him your all, because what if he breaks your heart? And so I was very aware of that. But I think you have to look forward to the next phase. And so if all you're doing is looking back like, God, that that's scary. I don't know where you, how you come out of that.

[Tom]

Yeah, yeah. And I think I read something slightly different into their comments, which I don't get the feeling like, yeah, anyway, to me this is one. One person is way in, like, way into it and like they're experiencing this sort of traditional definition of love. Although again, I will go back to. I don't think it's equally reciprocated. So there's like the deep sense of well being that comes from being in love with someone that is equally in love with you is so extraordinary. It's one of the most beautiful things you can experience in life. But the line between that being one of the most beautiful things you can experience in life and it being a hell on earth is so slim. It's like this thin membrane between like if the other person like this where she's giving the ring back and he's hurt her so much and all that, like, that's a fucking nightmare. So I'm just going to go back to. You want my perspective very clearly. Like it heartbreaking. It didn't work. This is over. Move past, begin healing. You guys have a description of like having a wound like a knife in a part of your body. You cannot begin to heal until you deal with the sucky part of pulling it out and, and then actually healing. So I think they have to do that.

[Lisa]

And I don't know how you can convince yourself to feel like you're in love with someone. Like if.

[Tom]

Bullshit. You can absolutely do that.

[Lisa]

Convince yourself to, to be in love with somebody?

[Tom]

Yes.

[Lisa]

Like for instance, if how

[Tom]

the part that you're talking about is if you don't have a real legitimate spark in the beginning, yes, you're done.

[Lisa]

And that's the thing. If I don't have a spark for you, I could love you as a person and the way you treat me. And I think I'm reading into this also. She actually makes him feel good. Right. I think she makes him feel special. She makes him feel loved. And I think those feelings can be electrifying or what's the word? Addictive. And so letting go of somebody or saying, hey, we're breaking up, I think can be difficult because you're actually holding on to the fact that someone loves you, someone cares for you. And I know you completely disagree and think that's crazy. Why would anyone stay in a relationship for those reasons? But I actually get it. Someone makes you feel special. And so how do you then say like, okay, well it's over. Like, not how do you. But to identify that it's not in love, it's just platonic. Like, God, that's. That's hard to then make that step to get out of that relationship.

[Tom]

Can I channel my inner Jocko Willink and then we'll move on? Yeah, you just do it like, it's. There's no way I think anyone should ever stay there. That is a hell on earth that is so unique and painful. I just couldn't do it. I'm gonna stop, but that's.

[Lisa]

Next question. I know I've got so much to talk about on that, but I'm hoping more questions come in that can help us touch on the other things. All right, so, Mia Lavoy, is it unhealthy to be in a relationship where you've both had the conversation where you know you're both not in love right now, but want to give it another go to see if you can fall in love? Well, the first. I've got to jump in, please. The first question, like, why do you want to force it? Like, if you know you're not in love with somebody, what is it that makes you want to be in love with them?

[Tom]

Can I give you an answer?

[Lisa]

Yeah. Like, I would never.

[Tom]

This is going to confuse people because this will seem like I'm going back on what I was saying before, but this answers the question of why I think you actually can fall in love with somebody if there was something real there in the beginning. And what you're dealing is what I call dust settling. If you had real, equal, balanced, reciprocated love in the beginning, and then little annoyances and things have stacked up and the dust is settling now. One, One of the. Yes. Then the first question, which I think is fundamentally different, which is just one person doesn't quite feel the way the other person feels. I think you're great. All that, but, like, we're just not there. So this is like, we were there, and we let life mess us up. So I call it dust settling in a relationship. So little annoyances, things you don't think are a big deal, like, in any one thing, like, you couldn't point to it and say, that was the problem. It's just like, it builds up over time. They never really forgive and get past things. So in the movie Unbreakable, which you and I have talked a lot about, which is an okay movie, but there's such an amazing moment between the husband and wife where they're. Now, they've totally estranged, even though they're living together, but they decide to start dating again and to really connect And I love that part of the movie. And I think it's really beautiful because it's. It's the dust that is settled. And once they're able to wipe that away and get back to that thing that connected them in the beginning and let go of all the little hurts and confess.

[Lisa]

I've got one line though that he

[Tom]

says, well, I think you're thinking about the part where he says, when did you think that this might not work? And she said, the first time I had a nightmare and I didn't turn to you to comfort me.

[Lisa]

I didn't wake you up to comfort me. Oh,

[Tom]

and. But that points at what I'm talking, like, that was a choice, right? And it seems like this moment of weakness to turn to somebody and say, I want you to comfort me. But in that act, it's an act of giving yourself to somebody, of being vulnerable, of welcoming. I'll say this, I don't need that. But it's beautiful. And to ask for that from you and to let you give that to me and to accept that that is how you bond. So when you were saying, but how do you make yourself fall in love? And it's things like that, so maybe make yourself fall in love is very misleading. And I will say that phrase, if somebody took that out of context, like, that isn't quite what I mean, but what I'm saying is like building a passion in your life, you build love. Especially in the post drug addiction transition. And that's where I think we really did something right, was when we were in the drug, like phase, we actually had conversations where we're like, hey, this is not going to last. I know enough about the brain to know that the neurochemistry is going to change. And so we've really got to look at what does that deep pair bonding look like. And it looks like moments like where you wake up in the middle of the night and you realize, I could just go back to sleep. But you don't. You take the time to allow yourself to be needy, to want somebody, to allow yourself to need that, the comfort of another person. And then, I mean, just to get neurochemical for a second, it's the oxytocin, it's the vasopressin releases, it's the bonding, it's the sense of trust, which is oxytocin, the vasopressin. They've actually found that like prairie voles, just to get really weird on you for a second, prairie voles, which unlike most voles, they mate for life and so other ones are like super promiscuous. And so they're like, what the fuck? So looking at why some, like why that one species of vole is so monogamous and they found that their receptors for vasopressin are like off the charts. And, and so you can look for it in humans and humans that have a. I forget what gene it is, but it means that they're able to process a lot more vasopressin and thusly really feel that sense of bonding, they're more likely to stay in long term monogamous relationships. And I don't remember who it was, but I was reading somebody's book and they're like, I literally test my fiance's partner, my daughter's partners to see if like they have that high level because otherwise it's not going to work.

[Lisa]

Wow. So, but you think, so you think if, if it exists you can bring it back. But I actually was coming from the point of like, what if you just realize, wow, we're actually not really in love anymore and we never really have been break up. Yeah. But look, I think if it's, you know, not to keep going on, but it says, is it unhealthy? I think if you both want it and you both want to try, you should give it a shot. No one's going to tell you what's right for you guys. So if you both believe that you can do it, I think you should definitely go for it. Alright, so we've got some fan shout outs from Australia, Germany, Malaysia, Canada and all over the us. Thank you guys for joining us. And if this video is bringing you value, please do press that little share button somewhere down there. We'd really, really appreciate it. That's our one ask. That would be great. All right, so next question. This comes from Chelsea Sullivan Rose. Long term relationships always come with days that you're just not in sync. One person is feeling love and the other is isolating themselves. It's temporary and you know that. But how do you push through in the moment? So I guess for me, new it's usually me that feels like I'm not feeling the love in our relationship. Because for you, I don't know, you don't get as my microscopic as I do on like, hey, I'm feeling like this and I need a cuddle. You kind of go in the momentum of like work and would you say that's the reason?

[Tom]

I would say that I derive a lot more of my fulfillment from work than you do. So I am much more likely to get excited, swept up in what we're building, and go down that path. And I just have a higher threshold for being disconnected but not feeling, like, that sort of burning sensation that you feel. So if I'm gone for, like, three days, you're really starting to feel it, whereas I have a higher threshold.

[Lisa]

Yeah. And so actually, I wanted to give, like, so this. These last few weeks, in fact, you've been so busy, and you've been traveling, and your family was here, and so we haven't spent. We haven't had date night in this. It'll be three weeks, which is very, very rare. We try to get date night in at least once a week. And I've been feeling the burn, guys. And I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna bullshit. Like, definitely yesterday and today. I started, like. I was like, okay, what? Today? It's Monday. Okay? Our date night. We've got Saturday together. And today I was like, oh, my God, it's only Tuesday. I was like, this is not good. When I'm starting to, like, count down the days to, like, when I get to spend time with you. I taught myself that, okay? This is a problem in our marriage. This is a problem in our relationship. And I don't mean extreme, but, like, I need to identify it, and I need to understand why it's happening, what I'm feeling. And then I need to talk to you about it, because holding off to Saturday, I know me so well. By Thursday, I'm gonna break. That's just. And you know that as well, right? I mean, you even smile. So by. I'm counting down the days. I'm like, oh, my God, there's only a couple of days left. And Thursday, I know I'm gonna be in a bad mood. I'm gonna feel super disconnected from you. I'm not gonna feel we're gonna now be, like, living friends versus, like, super connected in love, husband and wife. Are you smiling?

[Tom]

Just interesting.

[Lisa]

Because you don't feel like. Obviously you would.

[Tom]

Yeah. Like, it doesn't. It doesn't hit me like that. Like, I still. It all feels normal to me. And it's like, yeah, busy right now. But I like that you always bring us back. And I think that's kept us very emotionally safe because I probably would get too caught up in something, and it would be three months, and then it's like, oh, yeah, Jesus. So I'm actually grateful for that. But from the outside, it's always. Because I don't feel it the same way that you do.

[Lisa]

It's weird, but what's. So we've been together for 17 years, and over time, I think I've been. I've tried to identify within myself, like, what is that pattern? How does it always happen? So that it doesn't surprise me, so that it doesn't come to Thursday or Friday, and I completely crack. And I feel like we're not connected at all. So identifying those patterns for me is major. But also, you have really under. Learned who I am and how I work. So on Friday, when you were out of town and I got some bad news with my health, I spoke to you, and immediately you were like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. And you weren't in town, so you were texting me and you called me immediately and you're like, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna do this. We're gonna do this. We're gonna do this, babe. I'm gonna call this person. I'm gonna. Because you knew. You even put these specific words, which is the words I used to him. So you use them on me, which really helps. You're like, baby, I want you to know you're not alone. And you sent me that text on Friday because, you know, I start feeling alone when I haven't seen you in weeks and my health isn't great.

[Tom]

You haven't seen me in a non work context.

[Lisa]

Right, but that's very different. Like, it to you probably doesn't fit. It feels like night and day to me. I can be. There's a whole different part of my personality, I think that comes out when it's just me and you.

[Tom]

Yes. I go into my society mode. You actually are night and day different. I don't think I'm as different when we're not in work mode as you are.

[Lisa]

I go into wife soppy mode. I want to be cuddled. But when I'm in work mode, I need to have my thinking cap on. But anyway, so back to what I was saying is you have recognized the pattern in me. I've been very vocal about my process and my pattern so that we can fix it together. Because the one thing I never said is never want to have a problem and then keep repeating it for like the next 10 years. Like I'm. It's predictable. Like, if I've done it four times and I can't see a pattern, then that's, you know, shame on me. So I've noticed the pattern. I talk about the pattern. I talk with you about the pattern. Now you've recognized the pattern. You recognize the signals. You recognize the way that I text sometimes with certain things. So you. I felt so heard on Friday when you said to me, baby, you're not alone and sorry, my poor dog has a coughing issue. So he's coughing, bless him. So the fact that you remembered that you used that word with me, you. It was so perfect. So yeah, my suggest. I can't remember what the question was. I like went on such a tangent. But anyway, I think it's really important to know each other to be connected when you're not in sync. That's actually the question. So when you're not in sync, I just think it's important to get back in sync. Don't beat yourself up for not being.

[Tom]

Actually, I don't think we've read that question yet, have we?

[Lisa]

Yes.

[Tom]

Okay.

[Lisa]

Long term relations always come with days

[Tom]

that you're not in sync.

[Lisa]

One person's feeling love and the other is isolating themselves. It's temporary. How do you push through it? So back to, I guess, my knowledge.

[Tom]

I'll give you. Sorry, go ahead. No, please. I didn't realize you weren't done.

[Lisa]

No, I was just waffling.

[Tom]

I was just going to give it in one word. Communicate. There it is.

[Lisa]

Perfect example, guys, of how men in general, isn't there like a whole stat about the certain amount of words that men use with the women?

[Tom]

Yeah, but people. No one would believe that I don't talk off camera like I do on camera.

[Lisa]

That's, that's his responses to me, no one would believe. But yeah, literally. So get back in sync, I think. Talk about it. Talk about the patterns that you've noticed. Repeat the patterns that you've noticed. Tell each other what you want them to do.

[Tom]

Yes.

[Lisa]

In response. So if for instance, you hadn't responded with that lovely. Poor dog's got a heart condition. I feel so bad. He keeps coughing, bless him. So I just think it's important anyway, give the keys to the kingdom. So the fact that you would recognize what I needed was like amazing. We got back in sync. I was like, I noticed that. So don't be afraid to own it. All right, so would you rather segment. Let's do this, guys live. Drop in the comments below or feedback as well as we answer. Would you rather you read in the comments?

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

Would you rather stay with someone you don't love or stay with someone who doesn't love you?

[Tom]

Oh, someone I don't. Yeah, of course. Like, don't feel bad. I would much rather be in the power position on that one. Yeah, they both suck. Keep in mind that this is my nightmare, but, yeah, no question.

[Lisa]

All right, next one. Would you rather have high expectations in your relationship that are never met or low expectations? Space expectations always. So with my ex boyfriend when I was in my teenage years, I sadly just lowered my expectations. And I was like, all right, he turned up. That's. That's a win.

[Tom]

I think it would be less nightmarish to have, like, if you're somehow stuck in that relationship, which I'll assume in this you are. I would rather have low expectations that are met than high. Like, one is deeply frustrating and one is infinitely less so. So I think it's bad life advice to have low expectations.

[Lisa]

Almost be like a little flag. Like, I look for, like, things that flag something like, oh, this is dangerous. The second you start lowering your expectations with your partner. Like, I would actually say use that as an identification.

[Tom]

Says the woman who, like, slowly whittled down how much quality time we spent until we were setting date night.

[Lisa]

You're right. In fact, I do lower my expectations.

[Tom]

Six and a half years of not.

[Lisa]

But I put them in perspective. Like, I have high expectations of you doing this. And then I started put them in perspective about, okay, well, hang on. I want him to be this successful man. Like, I find that super attractive. I love that ambition in him. Yet I expect him to always do X, y, and Z. Like, okay, those don't.

[Tom]

You're really good at that, by the way. You are really good at that. And in this relationship, you need to get. You need to be awash in credit for that.

[Lisa]

Although, God, can I just derail us for a second? This was.

[Tom]

They're so unused to.

[Lisa]

This was.

[Tom]

This is terrible from either of us, by the way. That was not me just pointing a finger at you.

[Lisa]

Okay? This was terrible. And I actually am very proud that I caught it in real time and that you called me on that shit. So the other day. I think you guys have heard us talk very. A lot about. My language of appreciation is action. And so I love it when you put the kettle on for me. Love it, love it, love it. So he's been gone four days over the weekend. Like, that was our, you know, our daytime. And I felt very, like, disconnected from you. But again, I understand you're on your. You're doing your job, like, get it. But then you come back and you came back late on Sunday night. And so Monday morning I woke up, and because you've been really sick, I've been getting up before you, which never happens. So I've been getting up for, like, the last two weeks before for you. I haven't seen you. I get up on Monday morning, you're up before me. I go down to the kitchen, and with a smile, I grab the kettle handle, and the water's empty. And he hadn't filled it up or put it on. And I literally was heartbroken. And so I text you saying, what did I say?

[Tom]

Like, something, something. And P.S. you forgot to do the kettle.

[Lisa]

P.S. you forgot. Yeah, I told you something else. That's right. And I just said, hey, P.S. you forgot the kettle. And you put. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. I'm so sorry. But just so to remember, this is

[Tom]

a meant to be a bonus and not an expectation. Yeah.

[Lisa]

And you were so right. I actually was heartbroken because I had become. I had accept I have now it's become.

[Tom]

You've come to expect to expect it

[Lisa]

and the joy it gives me, especially because I. And I recognize this because I was feeling disconnected from you, because I didn't feel like we were completely one. I looking forward to feeling that emotion of you thought of me, and when you didn't, I really was heartbroken. But you calling me on that was very important because I think it's so dangerous that you can slip into a pattern. I think you can slip into the fact that at one point, something started off being nice for somebody. I'm doing the dishes for you, or you're taking care of me, making my dinner. Like, whichever way it is this, it becomes like, oh, my God, this is so nice. But then the second it becomes an expectation, I think you've removed everything that had initially started doing. Right. You were doing it because I felt special when you would do it. Now you. I become. I expect it from it, like, takes away that. So anyway, the fact that you called me on it and I was very aware, like, I actually am holding on to that moment now. Like, really, because it was such a good lesson that I don't want to take the joy away from how I felt. And I think turning it into an expectation does take that away.

[Tom]

All right, now, advanced class time. If you can understand how powerful it was that she recognized that. And instead of getting pissed at me for saying, hey, this should be a bonus and not an expectation, she thought, you know what? You're absolutely right. She said that to me that day right there in the moment. That is so powerful. And all of us have that opportunity to really look at something and go, you know what? I'm gonna. Like, I had an emotional experience. I don't necessarily have to trust it, and I certainly don't have to act on it. I can really think through this and see an opportunity to improve and get better rather than have another emotional reaction. I think that's where people fall apart. It's like they really are upset. And in many ways you have reason to be upset. I've been so busy and I've been traveling so much, and I've been sick, and it's just like, all stacking up and then I'm awake. But I don't do the kettle, which is like this really sweet thing. And you've told me like a thousand times how much it means to you, and I still forgot. Right, so you have a reason to be upset. Like, if we were on national TV and took a poll, it's like 13% would be okay with what I did. And then, like, everybody else would be like, that. That was lame. Right? So. But even though you could have doubled down and been like, look, that really upset me, you've been gone. You've this, you've that, you didn't. And in that moment, you were like, you know what? Actually, I fully respect that. And you're right. And I think that that's dangerous in a relationship. And I don't want to get to the point where I have these expectations and I can't see the joy and the beauty in it. That's so powerful. Like, I want just everybody to understand me calling you on it was like, eh, whatever. You going 100%. I see how that becomes dangerous over time. That's so powerful.

[Lisa]

I mean, and that's the thing. Like, I don't think we really think as people, or at least I didn't of, like, one moment. Right. Like, I could have, yes. Got upset and be like, I can't believe, like, you're saying that. Right? Because even you saying it to me was a little risky on your part. Like, because I could have got upset over it, and once upon a time I would have got upset. And once upon a time I would have, like, I can't believe it. Like, you know, I don't feel loved and blah, blah. But so even if I could have done it in this time and gotten away with it, quote unquote, I. I know that that's dangerous a year down the line, and then I think two years down the line and three years down the line. And I think that's how people end up in situations, in marriages, in relationships where they're no longer seeing the beauty in a relationship because all these expectations and shoulds become a part of, like, their vocabulary, and you've lost touch of the sweet, small, meaningful things. And so. And look, I totally get, like, sideline that there are things in a relationship that are important that you have to hold each other accountable for. And there should some expectations in a relationship. If a burglar came in right now, I would expect you to beat the crap out of them and not let them attack me. Just saying. But, yeah, you get the point. Small expectations.

[Tom]

At a minimum, I'll let them shoot me. I'll say that I will try to beat the line of fire.

[Lisa]

All right, so that kind of derailed us a bit.

[Tom]

But next, welcome to relationship theory. That's. That's the punchline there.

[Lisa]

And if you love this, guys, press that share button.

[Tom]

Yes, do share.

[Lisa]

Okay. Would you rather feel disappeared, disappointed by your partner, or bored with your partner? I think disappointed.

[Tom]

That's way less terrifying.

[Lisa]

Yeah, right. Who was it? I just heard if you're bored, it means you're boring.

[Tom]

It's nice linguistically. And I get what they're saying. Like, if. If somebody truly is, like, there's just no fun to be had around them. That's a real thing. Like, you just have nothing in common, and they're like, the stuff they want to do is truly boring to you. That. That's a nightmare. I think. I think that's a real thing.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Tom]

That is not just indicative. Like, let me tell you right now, there's so many things that I'm interested in, but I could be around somebody that just. We did not share, but the word disappointed is hard.

[Lisa]

Didn't your parents always say that? Like, I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed.

[Tom]

It's like, oh, yeah. But that feels temporary. Feels like forever.

[Lisa]

I'm totally with you there. But just the word disappointed, and I know that that word actually will sting you if I said that to you. Yeah, of course. Maybe you've disappointed me.

[Tom]

Yes. I don't even like you saying it as a mock sentence.

[Lisa]

All right, back to the next question. This is from Brian. So we're going to say more.

[Tom]

No.

[Lisa]

Okay. And this is from Brian Rotkamp. Hey, Tom and Lisa. Any suggestions for rebuilding our emotional connection after 27 years of marriage? We've drifting. We've drift.

[Tom]

We're drifting a little.

[Lisa]

Thank you. We're drifting a little. Due to the busyness of life and raising a family. God. I think the first step is to. I would sit down and start Making a list. I know. I'm a list person.

[Tom]

You're hilarious. Here's what she actually did. So this. This, while on a grander scale. This is what happened to us in the first six and a half years of our marriage. I was so busy, and that was like my. It's weird because I actually work more now. In some ways. I was probably more hardcore on the weekends then. Less hardcore on the week, but more hardcore on the weekends back then.

[Lisa]

Can I tell you the difference? Yeah, massive difference. You were completely closed off when you would do the other.

[Tom]

That's super insightful. I don't want to derail them here because I want them to hear what you actually did. It's very powerful for you and I as a couple. She said, we have to have date night. We need to carve out time. We absolutely must. Like, back then, it wasn't smartphones, but, like, that version of, like, you set everything aside, the kids go to bed, there's no tv. Like, you guys are going to connect. You're going to each, like, say what your selfish desire is. Figure out what you both really want to do as a couple. What's your selfish desire for the couple? So if you're like, I just want to go to bed, like, that doesn't count. So you're going to take the time, you're going to put in the hours. Like anything else, it takes work. And you made that really clear to me. And that was one of those moments where I was like, you know what? She's right. Like, if you want to have a relationship, you. I've always said there's no substitute for proximity, meaning you need to be together. But you made it clear there's also no substitute for, like, real intimate interaction. Like, you need to talk and connect and, you know, just have those, like, moments where it is just you and I having, like, an amazing time together where there are no distractions whatsoever. So I'd start there. And after 27 years of marriage, like, they're ahead of us. So, you know, hey. But we find now, if you're really thoughtful about, like, writing out questions beforehand and things like, would you rather. Which is something that was born of what we do in our relationship, where we ask, we. Especially when we go on vacation beforehand, I'll prepare, like, a hundred questions that I want to ask you, like, on all manner of topic. And I'm always trying to find something that I don't know about you, something that either has changed or something that maybe we've never talked about. And that is Endlessly Fascinating.

[Lisa]

Yeah. And when I said list, I mean like, a list of the types of things you want to do together. Like, what are the things that we're missing? Like, if you can look back and, you know, hold on to something. Like, oh, we used to love doing this. Okay, do we still love doing it? You know what? Let's try it. Like having a list of things, but I don't want to hop on the list. But talking about what are the things you want to do together. One thing that we do on every anniversary, on every anniversary of our first date is we redo our first date. So we go to the restaurant that you first took me to. Then we then go to the movie theater that we watch the first movie. Then we go to your. Outside your apartment because obviously other people live there now, but your apartment. We take photos. Like, think about how you guys can reconnect. About what. Why you got together in the first place. I think making sure that you have a babysitter, carving that time out is very important.

[Tom]

I'm gonna guess if you've been married 27 years, your kids are teenagers or

[Lisa]

older, but you don't know. Sure. Anyway, either way, make sure the kids are away, make sure the kids aren't around you, make sure that you have alone time. And then what are you doing in that alone time time? Like, getting a little more, like, deeper onto it. Like, what is your selfish desire? Is it just staring into each other's eyes? Now, as the woman, the first thing that I would do, maybe not the first thing, but I would for sure go out, get sexy lingerie. I would try to blow your socks off. Like, remind. I want to remind you why you're with me. Right? Like I want to knock your socks off. Like our first date. Like, go out of your comfort zone. Even if you guys have been together for 27 years, do something that you know is going to blow the other person away. Yeah, like get silly. Play, giggle.

[Tom]

Don't get silly. I fucking hate silly.

[Lisa]

I mean, what do you mean when I say. I was going to say silly? I mean, like, we'll have, like, a cocktail.

[Tom]

You know, that's a trigger word for me. I'm triggered right now. I hate silly in a way that I can't cocktail.

[Lisa]

We get giggly. Yes, I get giggly.

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[Tom]

So one thing I will say, and I think this is important, read the book the Female Brain, which talks about the way that having kids literally changes certainly the neurochemistry and certainly while pregnant, the actual physical structures of the woman's brain. Her priorities are going to change. And then through the years of just rearing children, things are going to change. And so really understanding how that happens, I think that people can combat it and begin to reconnect, but understanding that it isn't about becoming, you know, teenagers or 20 somethings again. It's about understanding how do you reconnect at the stage that you're actually at, depending on like how old your kids are. Full disclosure, we do not have kids. So this is all stuff that I've read, but if you follow my logic, hopefully it makes sense. So really just understanding the neurochemical changes, the hormonal changes that we all go through, men's testosterone levels are lowering, so that is gonna impact them. And then women, depending on whether or not they have kids, is like a whole hormonal change of priorities and everything else. And so really telling the other person what you really want is a big deal. And so there's a great shorthand quote that I think couples would do well to remember, which is women need to feel loved to have sex and men need to have sex to feel loved. And so a lot of the disconnect, and I get that's a gross generalization, but a lot of the disconnect comes from differences in sexual appetite, differences in sexual preferences, getting lazy. And I remember I met this, I worked for this guy a very long time ago and he was talking about how like they would they had sex the same way like every time because they were married and they had kids and it was just like it had become a routine. And he was saying like, he kind of missed like the not knowing and like having to explore. And so getting back into that level where you're discussing and exploring, you're being attacked by a bug. My wife loves bugs, by the way. So that all of that communication is important.

[Lisa]

Yeah, and that's, God, I'm gonna keep harping on this, but like finding out what each other want to do and then like engaging and really being all in. Like, you know, if, let's say our sex life wasn't great at the time. And I was like, I may even suggest or I don't know if you would suggest, but like, why don't we go to a sex shop? Let's have some fun. Let's pick. Why don't we go to a lingerie shop? Why don't you choose some lingerie for me, baby? Like really reconnecting for whatever like that is for each other. Like go all in, no judgment. That's another thing because like if you guys have really kind of over time just been disconnected, it's very easy to say, oh, you never used to be like that. You never liked that before. And there's almost like some judgment to it. So I think with the attitude of going into that, like really it should be like, this is. Can be so exciting. We're going to discover new, new things about each other. Like, I know it's been a while, like go in with that like excitement and enthusiasm versus like it's been a long time. Yeah, we haven't done this in a while. Like that just creates a different vibe from the get go word. All right, next question. This is from Nathan Schiffman. Were you, were you all this self aware with communication and setting expectations from day one or was this something cultivated over time? Cultivated over time?

[Tom]

Yeah, we were moronic when we first got together. We'll start with that. But I will say I, because I had no game as a kid, I tried to read Cosmopolitan magazine and like anything I could get my hands on about women 100% at the time. Perfect show to watch, anything to help me understand women. And so I was obsessed with communication. Even when we got together and I'd already started researching the brain, so it was like that stuff I think helped immeasurably. So just really thinking, understanding that we would transition and that even though I'd never been in love before, that like the, the neurochemical state was not gonna last. And so none of that caught us off guard. And so we did talk very openly from literally the jump. And that has served us well. And I also took seriously, like every time you guys know there's only one answer that people give that have been together for a very long time. If you ask what's the secret? And the answer is communication. Yes, every time. So I would see that in movies, I'd read it in articles and I'd be like, I'm going to take that seriously. I'm not going to be what you know, they say a fool never learns. A smart man learns from his mistakes. And a Wise man learns from the mistakes of others. I'm going to be wise on this one and just trust that. Talking, being open, being honest, communicating, being raw, being vulnerable, saying the hard things, being honest about what you want, even when it's like, oh, God, this might, like, be risky. I might upset them or they might judge me or whatever, but just, like, putting it out there so that you can actually get it. And this hearkens back to that first question of why I'm really fucking freaked out. Because I. About being with somebody who doesn't love you like you love them. It's like people just lie just a little. They take the edge off their personality, off who they really are. And over a long period of time, that becomes you. Becoming someone you don't even recognize because you've not been honest. No, thanks.

[Lisa]

Yeah, we've overcome a lot. I think communicating for us was we always had the communication, but I don't think I personally really had much clarity or understanding of who I was, how I act, what I need. And once you start understanding that about yourself, you can then communicate that to your partner. But if you don't quite understand, understand why you're doing things, how to handle yourself, then I think that that's where two people can really kind of butt heads. Like, whereas now I can say to you, babe, I need this from you. This is how, like, I can feel myself getting anxious. I can feel myself feeling a little alone. And being able to communicate that then allows us to make the change before we get to the car crash. Right. Whereas before, I didn't necessarily understand that about myself. So then we'll get to the point where we would really clash and that's when we would start communicating. But I think over time, we definitely learned to understand ourselves and then be honest with each other. And the one time that I found, like, we were at our worst in our relationship was because you were completely shut down on communicating because you were so busy at work. This is actually before we started Quest. You were miserable at the tech company. You were working so many hours. You had a vision. You're like, I'm going to be in charge of my life. I'm going to be an entrepreneur. I'm going to make partner in this company, whether it kills me. But you weren't enjoying it. So you would come home and you would be like, how was work? Fine.

[Tom]

Yeah, I don't want to talk about it.

[Lisa]

Didn't want to talk about it. That shutdown of the communication after a couple of years, I remember pulling, like, we had that big discussion. I was like, we are not husband and wife. Like, we can. We're not communicating. I don't know anything about you. I know you're not happy, but I don't know what is making you happy. I don't know what drives you. And that's when I think you really realize, like, wow, yeah, this is not good for our relationship. As well as for. I was gonna say for yourself, but really for our relationship. So. Okay, one more question. This is from Celeste Battistoni. Does having a business help develop both of your emotional maturity? Oh, having a business help, yes.

[Tom]

And the reason it helps with your emotional maturity is one, you're having to deal with a lot of people and two, it is inevitable that you're going to fail a lot. And failing a lot is the thing that develops your resiliency. It will force you to turn inside, to look at yourself, to confront weaknesses, inadequacies, and to really develop what is the single most important thing that anyone can develop, which is the ability to stare nakedly at your inadequacies without being emotionally destroyed by it, so that you can actually improve and get better. And that will serve you in business, that will serve you in your relationship. All of that, I think, is critically important now also, working together, man, you got to get your shit together to be able to work like we do. And so that like, it's. It's like ipecac. It's actually like soda water. I always say ipecac quite a lot. And what I actually mean is soda water, Soda water will either settle your stomach or make you vomit one of the two. And that, like, working together, it's either going to tear you apart or it's going to make you rock solid.

[Lisa]

Yeah. And it's a real test on days where your personal relationship, let's say there's a little disconnect and then you're working together. Like, do you. How do you separate the two? And we've worked really hard at that.

[Tom]

You get all the credit there because I find that very easy. And so for me, it borders on effortless. Like, once I get into work mode, I'm just in work mode. For you though, you've really handled that extraordinarily well.

[Lisa]

Thank you. Alright, so guys, if this is or has been bringing you value, please click that share button again. We like to get the video out to the world. So if you can share, that would be amazing. And tell your friends to watch live. Alright, next question.

[Tom]

This is a final quick question.

[Lisa]

Daniel Breeze, our boy Daniel, he's such a big part of the company that we can't not answer this. When you guys started Impact Theory, did you already have Relationship Theory in mind? Did you imagine that relationship with Theory would be this awesome?

[Tom]

Ah, it's very sweet.

[Lisa]

And so, no, not at all. I never want to be in front of the camera.

[Tom]

I all but gave her a panic attack when I said, hey, we should do a relationship, like, special Valentine's Day episode. Actually, I'm not sure that I came up with that. Somebody suggested it, but I loved it.

[Lisa]

Fans kept saying, why don't you interview Lisa? And I think that's how it started. And so I was like, well, God, all right, if you want to interview me, I'll do it, like, around Valentine's Day. So it feels right. But I didn't want. Want any crew. I didn't want any teammates.

[Tom]

Right. You were so weird about that before

[Lisa]

the team arrived, because here's the thing.

[Tom]

Like, I forgot about all that.

[Lisa]

My personality is like, if you meet me in real life, like, I'm very just me. And I was like, I don't want to pretend in front of the camera. I'm not going to put on airs and graces. Yeah, I don't want to put on graces. I don't want to pretend, like, obviously, like, yes, I'm your wife. People know you. I want to represent you and the Billy family well. But I'm not going to fake it. Like, I. I just. That's not what I'm interested in. And so you're like, cool, why don't we record it? We won't do it live. We'll just film it on the cameras, and then if you don't like it, we never have to release it. So we set up the camera. We did the recording. The camera had stopped, and so half the episode was missing, but I was like, it's kind of fun. And I was like, well, Lisa, maybe we'll just do another video. Maybe we'll just do it as a Facebook live. I was like, oh. And I remember, God, this is. I love you so much, baby. You had turned around to me, and you said, look. Oh, God, I'm trying to find the right phrase. You said something like, if. If you mess up or if you stumble or if you forget something, don't ever worry. I'm gonna be your safety net. And you're like, no. Like, what can go wrong? You're like, if you start getting yourself into danger, if you start, you know, like, verbal diarrhea, you're like, I'll be your safety net. I'll be there for you. And then over time, they basically, that's how relationship theory developed. And then you guys, I mean, I. I honestly cannot be, like, more transparent. The response you guys give us on obviously how much we're helping you guys, like, that makes so much of a difference because everything that we talk about, we've struggled through and we've had to try and figure it out as we've gone along. And the amount of, I don't want to say hate, but in the past from family and friends, when we spoke, like, people were just like, oh, yeah, but that's you and Tom. Like, it's always been like, but you guys are lucky. Oh, you found a good man. You know, it was always like, yeah, whatever. And I think that the fan base that we have in the community that we've built of relationship theory, like, everyone seems to be in that same place where, like, they genuinely want to improve. They're genuinely looking to look at themselves nakedly and say, how am I a problem in the relationship? How can I better my relationship? And so it's given me so much drive and so much passion. And it really has been because of the fans and how much we've obviously made a difference in to them. And then not to be, not to lie, I love spending the hour with you is the truth.

[Tom]

Yeah. So awesome, guys. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sharing it. It's been amazing. We really appreciate all the questions, the vulnerability, the rawness. Like, I'm eternally grateful for that. So.

[Lisa]

And one thing I'll add, if you guys do want to submit questions, but some people don't want to say their name, we totally respect that, guys. So please, you can email connectpact theory.com and if you just let us know you want to be kept anonymous, we absolutely respect that. But then we can answer the questions live the following week.

[Tom]

Word. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Much love. Go have wonderful relationships and we'll see you soon.