Jordan Peterson Canceled: A Warning On Good vs. Evil, Andrew Tate, Porn, Israel-Hamas & Weak Men PT 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Jordan Peterson Canceled: A Warning On Good vs. Evil, Andrew Tate, Porn, Israel-Hamas & Weak Men PT 2"

Podcast: Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu
Guest: Dr. Jordan Peterson
Date: February 21, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the shifting landscape of culture, morality, and the current crises surrounding free speech, masculinity, religion, sexuality, and geopolitics. Tom Bilyeu and Jordan Peterson explore what they term the "counter enlightenment," questioning the direction of Western values amidst rising authoritarianism and societal confusion. The discussion traverses technology, AI, gender dynamics, and dangers of ideological possession, all anchored by Peterson's distinct blend of psychological, philosophical, and biblical analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Religion, Narrative, and Human Cognition

Starts ~00:58

• Tom Bilyeu and Jordan Peterson examine why religion is accessible—and necessary—across the intellectual spectrum. Religion serves as an “encapsulated wisdom in a narrative” that operates at all levels of intellect, unlike purely scientific or rational frameworks.
  • Peterson: “Scientists are as rare as prophets... Someone genuinely devoted to the truth in that sort of monastic manner that requires total commitment.” (02:11)
• Dawkins’ notion of the “meme” is discussed—both its potential and where rationalists hesitate, especially when confronting Jungian archetypes and the deep functions of myth.
  • Peterson: “He got to the meme part, looked over the edge and thought, whoa, we’re not going there. That’s what psychologists always do, for example, when they encounter Jung.” (03:52)

Large Language Models & Meaning

Starts ~04:03

• Peterson introduces “computational epistemology”: using AI/large language models (LLMs) to map meaning and patterns in language—suggesting that fundamental archetypes like “God” can be mapped as the shared variance in a network of virtue words like "good, true, beautiful, just, merciful."
  • Peterson: “You can imagine... God is the shared variance of words such as good, true, beautiful, just, merciful.” (04:39)
• Language is not arbitrary; it is constrained to universality, woven into both the tangible and the conceptual.
  • Peterson: “Meaning is only in the text? That’s the ultimate claim of the disembodied, rational, prideful intellect. It’s all in the words. It’s like—no, no, no.” (09:13)

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2. Freedom of Speech & The Authoritarian Threat

Starts ~11:15

• Peterson is positioned as "the canary in the coal mine" on free speech.
• Bilyeu and Peterson discuss the high personal and financial cost of dissent in a culture increasingly intolerant to deviation from the mainstream, the “Overton window” narrowing.
  • Peterson: “Most people are very easy to kill in the world of ideas... it’s deferred hell.” (12:00)
  • Peterson: “I’d rather just have the hell like now.” (12:08)

Truth and Adventurous Living

Starts ~13:34

• Peterson argues that adventure, not security, is the proper aim of life. Facing fear and telling the truth brings the adventure that animates existence.
  • Peterson: “Substitute adventure for security... You’re actually after adventure. So where do you find your adventure? Aim up. Tell the truth and adventure will come your way.” (13:34)
• Practical advice: Start by not saying what you know to be false, and watch your opportunities unfold.
  • Peterson: “If you choose the proper God, if you choose the proper method of payment, the price you pay is one you would pay happily.” (16:24)
  • Quote: “Everything you give away, you’ll get back if you give it away in the right spirit…” (19:36)

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3. Hierarchies, Values, and Virtue

Starts ~23:04

• Bilyeu stresses the importance of hierarchy of values. Peterson insists foundational values aren’t simply “chosen” but are received through tradition or deeper impulses.
  • Peterson: “If someone technically atheistic is generous and productive in spirit, then they’re infused with the word regardless of what the semantic system sitting on top has to say...” (23:16)

The Biblical ‘Meek’ and True Strength

Starts ~24:28

• The concept that ‘the meek shall inherit the Earth’ is revisited and clarified as ‘power under control.’ Humility and strength are not opposites but intertwined.
  • Peterson: “There isn’t anything more compelling and powerful than a well-armed humility.” (25:00)
  • Example: Joe Rogan is highlighted as an exemplar of “meekness”—power combined with humility.

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4. The Crisis of Masculinity

Starts ~26:58

• Modern culture actively undermines healthy masculinity, equating ambition or aggression with tyranny or toxicity.
  • Peterson: “Men are being enticed toward weakness in every way. And punished for not doing it.” (27:03)
• Describes a societal dynamic he terms “Great Harpy warfare”—the destructive aspect of the “devouring mother” archetype, where compassion goes pathological and smothers male virtue.
  • Peterson: “The sin of Eve... to clasp even the serpent to her breast. My compassion is so overpowering, there’s nothing it can’t incorporate, even the fruit of evil itself...” (29:59)

Andrew Tate, Aggression, and Modern “Warriors”

Starts ~31:19

• Discussion shifts to Andrew Tate, his appeal and dangers: Tate’s “sex appeal” is the “psychopathic sex appeal of the short-term mater.”
  • Peterson: “That sex appeal that Andrew Tate has, that’s the sex appeal of the short-term mater. That’s the psychopathic sex appeal. It’s shallow... it will get him in trouble.” (32:42)
• Destructive versus constructive aggression—team sports and “civilized aggression” as models for healthy masculinity.
  • Peterson: “A competitive child who socializes, integrates the capacity for aggression into the game. And then becomes the player every kid wants on his team...” (36:00)

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5. Sexuality, Pornography, and the Digital Age

Starts ~53:32

• The modern sexual marketplace is examined as a mutually reinforcing pitfall for men and women, with special focus on OnlyFans, Belle Delphine, and hyper-sexualized online culture.

  • Peterson: “Those women online displaying themselves—they’re succubi. They’re not human... at minimum, it’s a machine-human hybrid...” (54:05)

• Both male and female pathologies are reflected in digital behaviors. Men retreat, women exhibit.

  • Peterson: “Men are hiding their potential away from themselves because they’re punished for it... Some of it is a genuine response, but some of it—it’s pretty convenient.” (56:47)

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6. Geopolitics, Oppressor-Oppressed Narrative, Israel-Hamas

Starts ~41:29

• The dangers of adopting a purely “oppressor-oppressed” narrative are laid out, drawing direct lines from current ideological battles to horrors like Nazism.
  • Peterson: “Once you identify the oppressed and you identify them with innocence, you identify the oppressor with predation or even worse... What do you do with predatory parasites? You burn them to the ground.” (46:13)
• Israel/Palestine: The intersection of tribal conflict and the hijacking of religious narrative for violence is critically addressed.
  • Peterson: “The danger is the confusion of the religious enterprise with dogmatic certainty... it’s in the interest of totalitarian psychopaths to hijack the religious enterprise. They do that all the time.” (41:58, 43:00)

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7. The Looming Global Crisis — Can the West Recover?

Starts ~60:48

• Western democracies face internal decline and external threats. Are we headed for civil war or global conflict?
  • Peterson: “We’re already in World War III. So I’d give that a hundred percent. How far will it go? Depends on how stiff necked we are.” (61:45)
• Individual action on a mass scale is the only solution:
  • Peterson: “It depends on how many of us shoulder our crosses and walk uphill... we all bear the world on our shoulders.” (61:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Truth & Security (13:34):

  • Peterson: “You don’t want security. You’re not an infant. That’s not what you’re after. You’re actually after adventure.”

• On Giving (19:36):

  • Peterson: “Everything you give away, you’ll get back if you give it away in the right spirit... You give more than you’re called upon to give, even to your enemies. Why? Because there is no better strategy.”

• On Weak Men and Masculinity (27:02, 31:19):

  • Peterson: “Men are being enticed toward weakness in every way and punished for not doing it.”
  • Bilyeu: “I imagine myself in a loincloth, covered in the blood of my enemies, with a big fucking sword in my hand. That imagery helps me stay focused, be strong...”

• On Pathologized Compassion (29:59):

  • Peterson: “Sin of Eve. That’s the eternal sin of Eve. To even clasp the serpent to her breast. My compassion is so overpowering, there’s nothing it can’t incorporate. Even the fruit of evil itself. That’s the fall of man.”

• On Andrew Tate (32:42):

  • Peterson: “That sex appeal that Andrew Tate has, that’s the sex appeal of the short-term mater. That’s the psychopathic sex appeal. It’s shallow... it will get him in trouble.”

• On Religious Corruption and Totalitarianism (41:58, 43:00):

  • Peterson: “The danger is... confusing the religious enterprise with dogmatic certainty... Not least because it’s in the interest of the totalitarian psychopaths to hijack the religious enterprise.”

• On World War/Destiny (61:45):

  • Peterson: “We’re already in World War III... How far will it go? Depends on how stiff necked we are... How much better would the people around you be if you were better?”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:58] – Main discussion opens; religion vs. rationalism and the value of narrative
• [04:03] – Large language models & mapping meaning
• [11:15] – Free speech, authoritarianism, and the price of dissent
• [13:34] – Truth, adventure, and investing in honesty
• [23:04] – Hierarchies, values, and why values aren’t chosen in a vacuum
• [24:28] – The “meek shall inherit” – Humility and power
• [26:58] – The crisis of masculinity and cultural incentives
• [31:19] – Andrew Tate, aggression, and the attractiveness of the “civilized beast”
• [41:29] – Religious wisdom, dogma, and the Israel-Hamas conflict
• [53:32] – Pornography, OnlyFans, and the digitized sexual marketplace
• [60:48] – Global crisis, decline in the West, and individual moral responsibility

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Conclusion

This wide-ranging conversation critically dissects current cultural dynamics, especially the loss of traditional structures and virtues, the rise of ideological possession, the dangers of misunderstood compassion, pathologies of gender, and the risk of global and spiritual catastrophe. Peterson repeatedly returns to the need for individuals to “shoulder their crosses,” live adventurously by telling the truth, and cultivate humility rather than pride or hedonism. This, he argues, is both the antidote to personal malaise and the only hope for a civilization in crisis.

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For more:

• Jordan Peterson’s upcoming book (pre-order now)
• Peterson Academy and his new “Essay” learning app
• Tom Bilyeu’s other Impact Theory episodes

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Jordan Peterson]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Interviewer]

Welcome back for part two with Jordan Peterson. I don't want to spiral off from this. I want to know if you think this is really true, because this may make your message accessible to people like me as one avatar that it might not otherwise be that the mistake Sam is making is approaching God, which I will say is encapsulated wisdom in a narrative that you can pass.

[Jordan Peterson]

It's this spirit of wisdom, too.

[Interviewer]

Even that's even better. Okay, so if he's turning his rational mind to it, that is to lose the force for the trees, because now he's attacking the container and he's saying, ah, but the. You told me the container was made out of wood, but it's actually made out of plastic.

[Jordan Peterson]

Whatever.

[Interviewer]

It's like, does it matter? Like, you got the thing in the container and the thing in the container is what works. Now I'm going to say something really inflammatory and then I will shut up and let you respond. I have a feeling that a big part of why religion works is that it is the thing that it actually, at all levels of intellect works. It works for extremely smart people and it works for really dumb people.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Interviewer]

Whereas Dawkins does not encapsulate.

[Jordan Peterson]

That's. That's, you know, there's some real truth in that. Now Dawkins response to that is that's the most intellectually arrogant thing he's ever heard. But. But, well, because, you know. Oh, I see. So it's good for stupid people, but not like for smart people like me. You know, that's the position.

[Interviewer]

I'm saying it's good for everybody.

[Jordan Peterson]

I know I know, I know, but his response, I've heard him respond to that sort of thing. His response is that's intellectually arrogant. But Dawkins believes that. Dawkins believes that people can easily become scientists, and they can't like science. Jesus. I know lots of scientists. I know lots of people who call themselves scientists. Not very many of them are scientists. Scientists are as rare as prophets. They're rare now. You know, you got people tinkering around the edges and sometimes they, you know, move things a trifle, but someone genuinely devoted to the truth in that sort of monastic manner that requires total commitment. You know, Dawkins is probably one of those people, you know, he's tangled up in his own. I don't. I don't want to get, you know, high on my horse here. I like Richard Dawkins, and I. And I learned a lot from his writings, and he got a lot right. You know, I mean, he is the last standing avatar of the rationalist spirit. That's a good way of thinking about it, the Enlightenment spirit, and in some ways, more power to him. But his. His view of the religious enterprise, it's biologically absurd. Like, it's. It's not a functional view. On. From his own perspective. And I know that partly because, first of all, he knows that a biological organism has to be a microcosm. And second, he came up with the idea of meme. The idea of meme is that far from the idea of archetype? Yes, it's the same thing.

[Interviewer]

Correct.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah. Well, he just. He got to the meme part, looked over the edge and thought, whoa, we're not going there. That's what people do. That's what psychologists always do, for example, when they encounter Jung.

[Interviewer]

You have to explain what's happening now with LLMs and how they're finding the patterns in the language. Because that. That really made me look at the.

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, I should.

[Interviewer]

Corpus in a new way.

[Jordan Peterson]

Absolutely. Well, I think that we'll be able to use the large language models where I'm. I've. Tongue in cheek, established a new scientific discipline with a former student of mine, Victor Swift, who now works with me and works on large language models, which we've been playing with a lot. Computational epistemology. So he's found a set of 10 words that functionally replace the notion of God in the English language corpus.

[Interviewer]

What are the 10 words?

[Jordan Peterson]

I don't know all 10 of them, to tell you the truth, but, you know, you can imagine. So imagine God is the shared variance of words such as good True. Beautiful. Just merciful.

[Interviewer]

Interesting.

[Jordan Peterson]

Right, right. So then imagine that God dies. That center word disappears. Yeah. But the spirits embedded in the cloud of concepts. Well, that the cloud of concepts around a given concept is the archetype. The center, sorry, is the central tendency of a cloud of related concepts. Is the archetype. Yeah. That we can map it. We can map it now with the large language wants. Yes. Stunning.

[Interviewer]

It's really important for people to understand that. That in cracking, at least mimicking human intelligence in a way where we can't distinguish the difference. What you're looking for are these interconnected patterns.

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, that's exactly, that's what the models do. That's how they're trained. Right. Is that they're trained on conditional probability essentially to a goal. So you can tell a word, let's say a non word, like nant. N A N T nant. That's a. It's a non word, but it's not, it's less of a non word than zxq. Well, why? Well, because the statistical relationship between the letters in the word nant are more akin to English words than the statistical relationships letter to letter in the all consonant, other non cons. All consonant, non word. Okay. Well, the large language models map the statistical relationship not only between letters, but between words, adjacent words. But then words two words away, words three words away, two words two. Two words away from two other words, like the whole map, essentially. Right, right. And so, but they do that statistically, they do that mathematically. So that would really. What that means now is that if these models are programmed, honestly trained, honestly a very difficult thing to manage, then we can use statistics to evaluate the structure, the implicit structure of meaning. And that's what literary critics have been doing forever. And you know, Harris, when he argued with me, said, well, you know, you're just, that's just your interpretation, which meant of the biblical texts, for example, which turned him instantly into a postmodernist. Right. There's an infinite number of interpretations of any text and there's no canonical order between them. That's the postmodernist claim. The lack of meta narrative, let's say, which means there's no union. It means there's no comprehensibility. It means everything, fragments ultimately, which is what they wanted so they could dance in the runes and pursue their own short term gratification. Right. With power as their, as their. As their hypothetical guardian and guide. Terrible. Terrible. These interpretations aren't arbitrary. They're not arbitrary. They're coded into the language. That's what makes the language comp. Without that coding, their language would not be comprehensible. Now, the postmodernists even knew this to some degree because they knew. So, sir, he was. He wasn't a postmodernist, but he was a precursor. He knew that the meaning of a word was coded in its relationship to other words. Now it's more complex because it's the same for phrases and sentences and paragraphs in the entire structure has that. What would you say that networked that network nature. Right. But none of that's arbitrary. And. And here's why it's not arbitrary. This is so cool. It's. It's not arbitrary partly because it has to be comprehensible to you and to me and to everyone else. So that's a terrible constraint, right? It's like it has to be a game everyone can play. So that's a really wicked constraint. One of those multi dimensional constraints we were talking about earlier. But there's more to it. I had a vision of this, this, this week, about how this. And it's been developing for years, this idea. So imagine there's like a central pillar. I envisioned it as a pillar of fire with sort of God at the base of that. And then there are stacked discs of manifestation. Material, imaginal. No, material, behavioral, imaginal, semantic. Right. So the material world has an implicit structure that's captured in imagination. And so the world of images is going to have the same networked structure as the world of words that the LLMs have marked. Soon the LLMs will be able to model the world of images, and soon they'll be able to lay them on top of one another. And that's what we do because our semantic representation system is isomorphic with the underlying imaginal system, and that's isomorphic with the behavioral system, and that's isomorphic with the material system. And so there. And then the concordance between those is the truth of the claim. Right? So if it's true, it's true semantically, imaginatively, behaviorally, and it's reflective of the structure of the material world. That's a tight set of constraints. There's nothing arbitrary about that. There's no. The meaning is only in the text. The. That's the ultimate claim of the disembodied, rational, prideful intellect. It's all in the words. It's like. No, no, no.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that. That to me is the punchline about what you're calling the counter enlightenment of. All of these patterns are present in the biblical corpus and that's how you know it's a reflection.

[Jordan Peterson]

Right. It's a reflect. That's exactly right. It's a. It's. Well, what the hell else do you think we've been doing for 4,000 years than trying to map this? That's what we've been trying to do with every tool at our disposal. Now, and you. But you pointed to a further constraint. The representation has to be made manifest in a form accessible to everyone. Right, right. Well, is that going to be in the form of complex scientific theories? No, that's the domain of specialists, obviously. Obviously, obviously. And besides that, even that specialized knowledge, you can't use that to orient you in the world. There's no reason to assume that your, you know, typical evolutionary biologist is any wiser, you know, than your typical plumber. Often far less. At least the plumber is constrained. You know, the world of constraints that a plumber operates in, that's a pretty tangible world. You're wrestling with the essence of material reality, that's for sure.

[Interviewer]

We who wrestle with pipes.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yes, definitely, definitely. Well, and plumbers, you know, I would say there's. It's hard to imagine a profession that has contributed more to the world than plumbers. Right. So.

[Interviewer]

All right, this, this whole idea I find utterly profound. I worry, though, we're in a super weird moment. You are. You're a canary, Nicole. Mine. For me, in terms of freedom of speech and the Overton window, what people are allowed to say, the. The authoritarian game only works if there's nobody there to challenge the ideas. You refuse to go away, proving hard to kill. But they have certainly tried. Most people are very easy to kill in the world of ideas. They can shut down their career and make it impossible for them to make money, which then makes other people just way too afraid to speak. I get it, you know, the hell that awaits on being silent, but most people don't. And honestly, the hell comes so slowly that most people are like, well, this is just a little bit of hell. By being silent a little bit more. A little bit more.

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, it's deferred hell.

[Interviewer]

Yes, exactly.

[Jordan Peterson]

And, well, deferred hell is deferred Hell is eternal hell. That's not good.

[Interviewer]

It is.

[Jordan Peterson]

I'd rather just have the hell like now.

[Interviewer]

Yes, but you are very, very rare. And so there's two things I want to see if we can get to the other side of using what the counter enlightenment is going to teach us. Okay. So, one, I spend a lot of my time absolutely freaked out about the authoritarianism that I See, Creeping in as somebody who grew up in the 80s, like this is just aging in. Yeah. It's insanity.

[Jordan Peterson]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And it scares me because there's people telling me I can't.

[Jordan Peterson]

700 million ctvs in China.

[Interviewer]

Jesus, man.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah. They have full G recognition. Right.

[Interviewer]

So even if you're laughing down knives in people's houses. What? That's really scary that.

[Jordan Peterson]

That freaks me out.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, right.

[Jordan Peterson]

That's what makes them tyrants. Right. There'll be nothing that you. There'll be no autonomy. That's the. Like zero. Zero autonomy. Because, you know. Well, and if. If you. If you haven't done anything wrong, you'll. You have nothing to worry about. So I can't. Well, good, great. Find me someone who hasn't done anything wrong, who has nothing to worry about. Yeah, right.

[Interviewer]

So how do. I heard at one point you were spending like $90,000 a month fighting everything that's coming at you. That's crazy. So how do people who just absolutely cannot do that, how do they push back,

[Jordan Peterson]

Substitute. And substitute adventure for security? Okay, security. It's like you're going to pursue security. Are you. You. How's that going to work? You're. You're going to die. You're going to encounter malevolence. Like you can. You can defer the. The encounter to some degree, although not very successfully. There's no security. And. And then the thing is, that's the thing that's so interesting to understand is you don't want security. You're not an infant. That's not what you're after. You're actually after adventure. So where do you find your adventure? Aim up. Tell the truth and adventure will come your way. And then that's so much better than security that there's no looking back. It's so incredibly exciting. It's. It's uncharted territory. The thing about the truth is that you don't know what's going to happen when you utter it. You have to let go. You know? So if I could come in here, you know, calculating what I want from this interview, figuring out how it's going to increase my social status or make me more money. And I mean, if it does those things, okay. But that's not the aim they miss. To come in here and have wrestling match and why? Because I have faith in the outcome. So what's the faith? The faith is whatever happens to you when you tell the truth is the best thing that could happen, no matter how it looks to you. That's a statement of faith. Now there's an alternative statement which is, oh, no, no, no. I'll say something and there'll be a consequence. And I'll have faith that that consequence is the defining. What would you say, defining feature of that utterance? I said something, I got in trouble, therefore I shouldn't have said it. It's like, well, what if you get in trouble, but like, three weeks later, everything's way better for you? Christ. Like, it's not like there's any shortage of things like that in life. That's what work is. Work is, I'm going to do this thing now that's difficult so that something better will happen in the future. Well, truth is like. Truth is the ultimate investment in that matter, definitely. That's why truth is what stores up treasure in heaven. That's what that means. And so, so how can people. How can people learn this? Try telling the truth. I mean, I wrote a chapter about this in one of my books that was quite accessible. It's like, start by not saying things, you know, to be a lie. Just start with that, Play with it. See what happens. See what happens.

[Interviewer]

Walk me through the morning when that person does that. I'll talk to young men right now. They say what they think is true. They get fired from their job. They.

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, then they. Then they probably bit off more than they could chew, right? The eternal sin of Adam to bite off more than he could chew. It's like, you know, if you don't know what you're doing and you're in a dangerous place, maybe, you know, start on your knees, humbly, carefully, you know, don't go out there and brandish your new truth and make yourself into an idiot martyr so you can tell yourself that you're the Messiah, you know, with one utterance. That's not wise. You have to be as wise as serpents, right? That's the idea. This isn't a game. You have to. You have to do it with your eyes open, you know, and if you pay attention, you'll see your opportunity. You'll see. You'll see it'll make itself manifest. You'll see where there's a choice point where you'll be conversing with someone and you could take the easy route out that you usually take, or you could dare right then and there, and there's an excitement about that, and then you'll try it. And, you know, other person, you know, maybe you're kind of a cringing milk sop sort of person. And. And so you're. You're being intimidated by one of your friends who's actually a bully that you hate. And you decide at that moment that you're finally going to say at least a fraction of what you've been thinking. And you know, it takes him aback and then actually likes you better and is 10% less likely to bully you now you might get punched too, you know, that's. Well, hey, that's right. This is real. It's the ultimate game. I suppose the ultimate game is what's real. But it's not like there's not consequences. One of the other thing you have to understand, and this is a good thing for young men to understand, is you're going to pay one way or another. There's no way out of that. So choose your method of payment. That's what you can do. And, and weirdly enough, if you choose the proper God, if you choose the proper method of payment, the price you pay is, is one you would pay happily. That's what, that's why see, Abraham is called upon to sacrifice his son, for example, and in the service of God. And he says yes, and then he doesn't have to. And that's right. And it's the same. We know this even in our families. A mother who will sacrifice her child to the world, let the child go, foster that child's independence, offer the child to be broken by the world full heartedly, will get that child back, right? The child won't leave. It's so interesting because the child leaves, but not really, right, because that's the child who wants to maintain a relationship with the mother for the rest of the child's life, who wants that mother as a grandmother and who wants her around and who will return as much as is appropriate, but no more. And so everything you give away, you'll get back if you give it away in the right spirit. And we know that even on the reciprocal front. You know, I, I worked with many, many professors and, and society scientists. But let's say as a graduate student I had a great graduate advisor, Robert Peel, who's still alive and who I still work with that case in point, I loved working in Bob's lab partly because he was insanely generous with his ideas. He just give them away. Like there were professors who, like they'd have an idea, they'd shelter the damn thing. It's like this is my idea and someone's going to steal. It's like first of all, probably it's not your idea. Second of all, it's not that great anyway. So don't be so concerned there's not a lot of people lining up to steal your ideas. And third, it's not that easy to steal ideas anyways, so there's a fair bit arrogance and, and lack of faith in that. But imagine, we could even imagine psychophysiologically what happens to you if you give away your ideas. So let's say, you know, you're blessed with a creative spirit and. And you're just giving your ideas away like mad, like you're a tree that's full of fruit and you're just distributing it. Well, everybody that you give an idea to is thrilled about it, and they reflect that in their enthusiasm. And that enthusiasm is rewarding. And that reward creates a dopaminergic kick. And that dopaminergic kick reinforces the dominance of the creative spirit. And so then you have more ideas. Right? And so that's a great example of how you get back what you give away in spades. It's by far the best strategy. That's why Christ says that, you know, if someone asks you for. Well, I don't remember this phrase exactly, but, you know, you give the person who asks your coat, you walk the mile with them. You give more than you're called upon to give, even to your enemies. Why? Because there is no better strategy than that by any stretch of the imagination. This is why there's such an emphasis in the Old Testament on hospitality. Be welcoming in productive generosity. Productive generosity? Well, what does that ensure? It ensures your own security, weirdly enough, because if you give to a thousand people and then you're in trouble, you have a thousand people who are ready to help. You know, maybe you could give to a hundred thousand people or a million people. I mean, how could you possibly put anything in a more solid bank than in the goodwill you generated in. In the embodied imaginations of other people? That's the kingdom, that's the. That's the treasure, that's treasures in heaven. And they are an eternal form of treasure in some sense, not least because that reputation can last in some cases throughout the ages. And then it's. It's part of the manifestation of that underlying spirit of creative generosity that gives rise to the cosmos itself.

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[Interviewer]

Thing I don't want to get lost in all of that is that that is somebody who has a hierarchy of values, whether they got it religiously or they just decided it. But the hierarchy of values is what I would tell people to lean on in times of trouble.

[Jordan Peterson]

They can't have just decided it. If they decided it, it's because something moved within them. Right? Because we just aren't self created, you know? You know what I mean? I mean we, we have that self creative capacity to some degree, but. Right. We're the inheritors of one tradition or another or mishmash of traditions or we're socialized creatures, intensely socialized creatures. So there's all sorts of things that give rise to impulses within us. And so I would say if someone technically atheistic is generous and productive in spirit, then they're infused with the word regardless of what the semantic system sitting on top has to say about. It's like, I don't believe that. It's like, well, it kind of looks like you do, you know, if we're going to judge the tree by its fruits. And so Dawkins, you know, Dawkins doesn't know how much of a Christian he is.

[Interviewer]

God. I want to sit you two down at the same time. I want to hear him respond to that statement.

[Jordan Peterson]

He's a, he's a terrifying guy. You know, I, I, unfortunately the few times I have talked to him, I'm still quite ill. And you don't want to talk to Richard Dawkins when you're not at your best. And so, but I do believe that we are scheduled to have a public discussion at some point in the relatively near future.

[Interviewer]

That would be amazing. Going back to young men, there's an idea that you put out there that I have talked about just ad nauseam. I'm so grateful to you for this concept. I hope you're right that in the Bible the idea that the meek shall Inherit the earth makes no sense when you think of meek as weak. But when you think of meek as somebody who is a total badass, but they keep their sword sheathed.

[Jordan Peterson]

Rogan's a good example.

[Commercial Announcer]

Why?

[Jordan Peterson]

What's meek about Rogan? Well, it's not that he's weak, it's that he, every guest he has, he, he tries to learn from, you know, it's, it, it's a kind of. There isn't anything more compelling and powerful than a well armed humility. And I've seen this in great people I've met. I have been privileged to meet many great people and I've met the shells of great people too. But the great people I've met are. They're striking in their humility. Striking. It's a core part of their character. And they're not, They're wrestling all the time. When they talk to someone, doesn't matter who it is, they're. They're there with them, communicating, you know. One of the things we learned as we moved along on this tour was I have security people who also help me with logistics. And. We've had to be very careful about who we gather around us because all the people on the tour have to treat everyone they come into contact well with. Well, all, everyone. Especially the people who come to my shows, but in restaurants, in hotels, like, I don't want to leave. This is especially true if you're in the public eye, because if, if you're unknown and you offend someone, they'll forget it. But if you're well known and you offend someone, they will never forget it. It will burn itself into their imagination and they will tell absolutely everyone they're. They'll feel deeply betrayed and, and they have been. So, so we ensure that everyone around us treats everyone not well, in the manner that keeps reputation intact, but. Well, not so that reputation stays intact, but because it's the right thing to do. And that's a form of that meekness, you know, it's. It, that's. That's what it's referring to.

[Interviewer]

Do you think men are being taught to be weak right now?

[Jordan Peterson]

Yes, definitely.

[Interviewer]

What?

[Jordan Peterson]

Oh, no, it's worse than being taught. They're being enticed toward that in every way.

[Interviewer]

Tell me more.

[Jordan Peterson]

And punished for not doing it well, they're enticed towards it by. Well, well, the insistence, for example, that there are modes of less worthy being than the masculine, let's say, because masculinity itself is toxic to its core, a manifestation of patriarchal oppression, that male Ambition is nothing but a manifestation of the force of tyrannical power that not only oppresses the oppressed but rapes the world. Jesus. Brutal. So there's that. So that. And then any deviation from, any deviation in that direction. The desire of a four year old boy to play with guns, for example, well, we have to rub that out. It's like, oh, well, do you, you're going to rub out your son's ability to point and shoot, are you? That's, that's what he'll do his whole life, you know, go to war with that in your feminine virtue. Toxic masculinity. It's like great harpy warfare. It's awful. It's awful, you know, but it's, it's part of this belief, and that's derived from this unholy nexus of agreement between the postmodernists and the meta Marx, that the only story is one of power and men wield the power. And therefore all masculine virtue is identical to the striving for power. And that's immoral in its essence. It's basically the most pathological brandishers of that doctrine presume that male virtue is indistinguishable from malevolent. And so the best you can do if you're a man is to castrate yourself and.

[Interviewer]

Oh God.

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, what, that's what's happening in the culture. It's literally happening. It's not even, it's not even symbolic. That's, that's the offering. That's the ultimate offering to the, to the Great Mother. That's a great way. Freud knew this. Jung knew this. This is well mapped out. This is well mapped out in the psychological and, and symbolic spheres.

[Interviewer]

You've asked a lot of people. I don't know if you've ever gotten a satisfying answer. I haven't heard it yet. But what happens when the left goes too far?

[Jordan Peterson]

Or where. Yeah, where does the left go too far? Yeah, yeah. What's the equity?

[Interviewer]

Clearly I posed that to. It was either Bret Weinstein or his wife Heather Hein. And because I said, look, what I see in the world right now is what it looks like when women become pathological. That the things that are good, nurturing, wanting to care for people, when that goes too far and I. Devouring mother would be your phrase. But it's a perfect phrase. Yeah, it really does.

[Jordan Peterson]

Sin of Eve. That's the eternal sin of Eve. To, to even clasp the serpent to her breast. My compassion is so overpowering. There's nothing it can't incorporate. Even the fruit of the. Of evil itself. That's the fall of man. Yeah. That's been playing out, like, in spades, rapidly, miraculously. Yeah. It's very, very bad. Very, very dark.

[Interviewer]

So I know that if we don't find a way to make men, I won't even say strong. I think strong is a part of it.

[Jordan Peterson]

But invite them. Invite them to be strong.

[Interviewer]

Invite them to become what healthy masculinity looks like. Now the question becomes to. From where I'm standing, I will give you the image that I use a lot. I use this in business all the time when things are getting really hard. I imagine myself in a loincloth, covered in the blood of my enemies, with a big fucking sword in my hand.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And that imagery helps me stay focused, be strong, be hard when I need to be hard. Not that I'm, you know, imagining killing indiscriminately, but that I need to be able to step into aggression. And aggression is the right word. And when I.

[Jordan Peterson]

Why Andrew Tate is so. So attractive to young men.

[Interviewer]

Dude. So much. He's utterly fascinating to me. 90% of what he says scares me to death because it actually is toxic masculinity. But 10% is so good that I'm like, you cannot dismiss this kid.

[Jordan Peterson]

People are complicated. Eh? But the thing is, is that the. The more. Okay, so. So the perversion of warrior, in some ways, is psychopath. And you know that because you watch, like, mafia movies, so we all know this. Okay, But. But there's a dreadful attraction in untrammeled aggression for men who are so crushed that they're castrated. That's a good way of thinking about it. So. So the attraction that the. That the Andrew Tate Persona, let's say, has on those young men, there's actually a lot of that that's positive. Now, that doesn't mean that that's the right target, but it. There are creative ways of being wrong that are helpful. Right. Right. Now, I. You know, you see better examples of that precisely that in people like Jocko Willink and David Goggins and Joe Rogan. Like, these are tough guys, you know, but they're not.

[Interviewer]

They don't have the sex appeal, though. That's one thing I'll give Andrew Tate.

[Jordan Peterson]

Like. Yeah, but that's partly because they don't want it. Yeah. Yeah. But it isn't that they couldn't have it. Like, it's that they've. They've decided that everything in its proper place. Rogan has a family, you know, that's. That's where he's put it. And, and hey man, good work. Good work to him, you know. And that sex appeal that Andrew Tate has, that's the sex appeal of the short term mater. That's the psychopathic sex appeal. That's the dark tetrite sex appeal. It's shallow. It's shallow and it will get him in trouble. I mean, it's already got him in trouble. Yeah. So that's not gonna. Unless he, you know, wises up precisely that it'll get him in trouble. You know. And I'm not trying to take him apart. I mean, I think what he did with his, with his capitalization on female sexuality is absolutely unforgivable. But why. That's enough of that. I mean that was, that was beyond the pale in my estimation. There was no, there's no excuse for that whatsoever. Now, you know, if you're a basement dwelling, incel the mere fact that you could imagine ever doing that. Sort of like you imagining yourself, you know, in a loincloth covered with blood. The mere idea that a man, which is what you are, could even imagine manage doing that. Having a harem, you know, of women who are offering sexual favors at, at your beck and call. That's a much higher calling than castrated over obese, resentful loser who can't leave the basement. Right. Because that's an even low, I suppose. You know, when you're in the lowest rung of hell, the rung right above looks like heaven and, and it's up, it's up. Bad aggression, not aggression is very, very necessary. You know. It's very necessary. And sports are a great way of, of, of putting that in its proper place. Especially team sports because you, you can take that competitive instinct and that instinct to win, that instinct to be competent more deeply and you can, you can put it in its proper place. And it is an immense source of implacability. Immense.

[Interviewer]

Now in a social.

[Jordan Peterson]

Certainly something I draw on when I lecture, for example, like it's a source of energy. It's just sitting right there.

[Interviewer]

Interesting. Why is that so effective?

[Jordan Peterson]

Anger. Aggression is a very primordial instinct. Very. And, and it activates both the positive emotion systems which are forward moving and the negative emotion systems that awaken you. It's high stress. Like there's nothing more stressful than being angry. It's very stress psychophysiologically demanding. It's very psychophysiologically stressful, but also as an, as a. Alerting, as a form of alerting arousal. In some ways it's unparalleled and, and it's great to have it at hand. You, you don't want to see the Freudian model with regard to aggression was repression. Like we have this terrible ID that's trying to make itself clamber upward, you know, all red and tooth and claw. There's some truth in that. But his model of how that was regulated by socialization, it was insufficient. It's not repression, it's not inhibition. Now he kind of knew that because he talked about sublimation. Piaget, Jean Piaget had a much better model, much more, much wiser. And Piaget observed actual children, A competitive child who socialized, integrates the capacity for aggression into the game. And then he becomes the player every kid wants on his team because he still wants to win. So he's, he's got that forward driving intensity and skill. But, but he does that in a manner that brings everyone along with him. Right. And so then it's not. Aggression isn't inhibited, it's integrated. And, and the more aggression you can integrate, well, the more compelling you are. 100%. Like that's, that's the, that's what, that's what women are after. That's because the fundamental, I think the fundamental female hero story is essentially Beauty and the Beast and a woman is after a civilized beast. Like literally, that's that all female pornography has that structure, civilized beast, you know, and it can tilt a little hard in the beast direction when it gets a little masochistic and it, you know, can turn a little hard in the, in the civilized direction when it's kind of like when it's a romance that tilts more in the direction of friendship. Woody Allen would probably be a good example of that as a character in his own movies. But you know, there's a, you can imagine that there's a range in there where the solution can be offered in a variety of different forms.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I think you were the one that pointed me to a book that was utterly transformational. A billion wicked thoughts.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Interviewer]

What I find really interesting is it isn't just a civilized beast. It is a beast I civilize with my magic. Hoo.

[Jordan Peterson]

Ha.

[Interviewer]

Which is what they say in the book.

[Jordan Peterson]

Right.

[Interviewer]

But that, that I find very interesting and has somehow become.

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, women probably did the same thing to men that humans did to wolves.

[Interviewer]

That's interesting, man. Tell me more about that. That is really interesting.

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, you know, you want a wolf like that's trying to eat you, or do you want a wolf on your side? Well, that's the situation women are in. I mean you've seen the cartoon representations, dude. Tex Avery's cartoons from the 1940s. I think they were the fort wolf who's like completely sexually what Obsessed with

[Interviewer]

text flying out of his eyes and,

[Jordan Peterson]

and he's always after the singer who sings Old Wolfie, you know. It's perfect. It's perfect. Yeah. Women definitely tame men. Obviously. Yes. Clearly they probably tamed them by offering them sex and fruit. You know, so. Because they want gatherers. Women are gatherers. They're not hunters.

[Interviewer]

Really makes me sad that we can't that the public discussion around this people get so weird about so fast. You actually did a really amazing interview. I think her name was Dr. Sarah Hill.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

I found that utterly fascinating. Talking about just what men do to get women's attention. The demands every women make it. Yeah. Literally that all, everything and anything is the answer to that 100%. My success is literally tied to my desire to impress my now wife then fiance. When I really turned it on, I was like whoa, I've got.

[Jordan Peterson]

The correlation between male trappings of socioeconomic success and male reproductive success is like, it's like 0.7 for women. It's negative. It's zero. It's lower than zero. Like men don't care at all about. The men aren't looking for in women for what women look for in men. Correct. So. And not a bit even. Not a bit even. And, and that plays out also in the structure of female motivation. You know, men are very competitive. They'll. And, and in uni. Dimensional in some ways. One eyed you might say. Right. And there's an immense symbolic level of web of associations around that idea. The one eyed giant. Well the penis is a one eyed giant like obviously. Right. And it's, it's a seeking, it's a, it's part of a seeking system seeking women. And it'll do that uni dimensionally. Right. And so. And men are like that. Freud knew this, that men are like this from the cellular level up. And so they'll specialize, they'll hyper specialize obsessively in a manner women are just not interested in. They can, but they're not interested in it. And partly they're not interested in it because that isn't what. It doesn't attract men that, that capability. You know, the, the men I worked with in big law firms, for example, hyper competitive men, you know, and they were, they're very concerned about their bonus but not because they needed the money. Said, well, the money's just a way of keeping score. And they all said that. They all knew that. They laughed about it. It's like they wanted a bigger bonus than the next guy. The amount didn't matter. The comparative amount mattered a lot. And it was part of a status ranking, you know, and, and that's everything for young men, status ranking, God, yes. I mean, they'll, they'll die for that. They'll kill for that. Like, it's not like we don't know this. It's in the criminology literature. This is crystal clear. Know the gang. A tremendous amount of gang violence is status competition. But even more than the, even the economic element of that is subordinate to the status competition. So yeah, that's, that's crystal clear. Crystal clear. So.

[Interviewer]

All right, there's another idea that I need to put this post in our counter enlightenment idea up against what's going on in Hamas, Israel, that conflict. You've got two religions supposedly both packaging up a ton of wisdom, but when they collide, it's ugly and it won't go away. Is there a danger in trying to communicate wisdom in a religious package?

[Jordan Peterson]

Of course there's danger in every, in everything, in every endeavor. The danger is the confusion of the religious enterprise with dogmatic certainty. Fundamentally. I mean, there's no reason to assume at all that the religious enterprise can't degenerate into totalitarian psychopathy for that matter, does all the time. Not least because it's in the interest of the totalitarian psychopaths to hijack the religious enterprise. Now. They do that all the time. That's their modus operandi again. That's the same people that Christ is contending with constantly in the Gospels. I mean, at multiple levels. He contends with the tyrants themselves from Rome, but it's not like there's no tyrants in the Jewish community. And all of those tyrants use religion to be tyrannical with. And yet it's the most egregious sin or one of the most egregious sins. So the third commandment depends on how you count them. But the third commandment is generally held to indicate something like do not use God's name in vain. And people think that means don't swear. And it kind of means that some trivial way. But mostly what it means is do not claim divine motivation for self serving behavior. And that's what all the protesters are doing. We're so compassionate in public. It's like, no, I don't think so. I think you're Narcissistic psychopaths fundamentally. And if you're not well at that moment, you're certainly possessed by that spirit. Look at how good we are. That's why Christ says in the Gospels not to let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. If you're going to be good, do it in secret. Why? So you don't. So you don't fall prey to the temptation to make your good subordinate to your pride. Right. That's what the bloody Oedipal mothers do all the time. Look how much I love my son. Yeah. He doesn't even have a penis anymore. We solved that problem for him.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah, wow. It's so bloody. It's so brutal. It's so dark. It's. It's virtually unimaginable. It's such a pit. It's so awful. And then the mother can parade around with what, what has she got her son's genitals on a stick so she can parade down the street. Oh, absolutely. And show her neighbors, look how compassionate I am. No matter what he turns into, I still love him. Brutal.

[Interviewer]

Would you say that? Or would it be something more along the lines of he is so loving and so compassionate for having been at my breast that he has essentially voluntarily discarded these toxic.

[Jordan Peterson]

That'd be your cover story. And you know the other part of that secret desire is, well, immense hatred for men. Immense, immense hatred for men. For, for or for what that particular breed of woman thinks men stand for and are.

[Interviewer]

So, you know, where, where does that come from? If, for.

[Jordan Peterson]

Oh, it comes from all sorts of places. Lots of those, lots of women like that were terribly damaged by men, by power mad men, you know, who hurt them in all sorts of terrible ways. They had lots of these people, you know, you hear their story and you think, well, it's no wonder you think that way. But that's, that's, that's no excuse because many people who are terribly abused don't grow up to be abusers. They decide that they're going to take the opposite route. You know, you can learn a lot from being abused. And one of the things you can learn is not to do it.

[Interviewer]

So what idea has possessed them that makes them break bad when that horrific thing happens to them?

[Jordan Peterson]

I think you have to read my new book. I can't, I can't. I can't simp. It's too complicated to simplify. See if I can come up with some reasonable. I'm virtuous because I was hurt. That'd be, That's Part of it for sure. Yeah. And that's part of the. If you're a victim, you're an infant. And if you're a infant victim, then you're moral and to be protected at all cost. And anything that threatens you is a predator. And there's nothing too terrible for a predator. Right. To meet out to a predator, which is another part of the underground attraction for that. Because this is the horror show of the oppressor oppressed narrative. Once you identify the oppressed and you identify them with innocence, you identify the oppressor with predation or even worse, parasitical predation. It's exactly what Hitler did to the Jews. 100% predatory parasite. What do you do with predatory parasites? You burn them to the ground. No holds barred. No, no punishment is too extreme. And then, well, then you get Auschwitz. So brutal. And then you get to have all the delights of being the Auschwitz guard. And then the darkest part of your soul has the chance to come out and play.

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[Interviewer]

Is that what you think is going on right now? I was, I was taken aback. I did not see it coming. That there were pro Palestine marches on October 8th. So Israel's response?

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's definitely what's happening. I mean, it's very straightforward. It's algorithmic. Oppressor oppressed. How do you know? The oppressors, they're statistically overrepresented in positions of authority. Obviously by definition, then their oppressors. Well, who's most statistically overrepresented in positions of authority? Jews. That's like the door is open, man.

[Interviewer]

So why are they the canary in the coal mine?

[Jordan Peterson]

Why?

[Interviewer]

In a way that is so bizarre

[Jordan Peterson]

throughout history, part of the reason, as part of it is the reason I just said so, then you might say, well, why are they more likely to be Successful. Well, they're smarter. That's part of it.

[Interviewer]

By a lot you mean at a truly biological level that they just as, as a group, they have a higher iq.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yeah. And they have neurological problems that go along with that.

[Interviewer]

Like, is that controversial or are people. But do people debate the fact.

[Jordan Peterson]

Stupid people debate it. Well, I'm serious. Like the, the, the, the intel. The IQ literature has something in it to appall everyone deeply. I, I mastered that literature in like 19934 with a student of mine who I still work with, brilliant student. He got bounced right out of the whole academic world because of the response to his work partly on iq. Well, we were looking at neuropsychological functions associated with the prefrontal cortex specifically, but it devolved into IQ because everything to do with abstraction devolves into iq. IQ is a brutal literature. And so, and Jews, you know, Ashkenazi Jews specifically, they have IQs that are probably 15 points higher than the typical. Than the typical 15 points. Yeah. So they're radically over overrepresented. So, you know, at the middle, that doesn't make that much difference, although it makes some. They're very likely to be at the top of their class. But if you go out like IQ 145, where the serious action starts. Jews are way overrepresented. And if you don't like that theory, well, how about they have a giant conspiracy to take over the world as a substitute theory. So I don't care which of those theories you like. It's like you're gonna. Both of them are like fire. Both of those theories are fire. And so. But you're stuck with one or the other. So that's life. That's life, you know, and so what, what should happen is that people should be bloody happy that they're smart Jews around. And the Jews should be very careful not to take their intellectual superiority as a marker of, what would you say? Excess intrinsic worth. No, I'm not saying that they are more prone to that than anyone else, by the way, but it is a, it is a temptation for intelligent people to identify with their intelligence and to become prideful. Right. That's actually how, in some ways how God keeps the eternal scales of cosmic justice, balance. So imagine you're born with an IQ of 145. Well, then you might think, well, that's not very fair because what about the poor guy who's born with an IQ of 85? And those are very different. They're very, very, very, very different. And, and you say, well, that's completely unfair. It's like, fair enough, but the guy with the IQ of 145 is. Is prone to the temptations of the pride of the intellect. And that is Lucifer, right? Like that's the worst temptation. And so Lucifer is the spirit of intellect gone most dreadfully wrong. And so sure, you can have an IQ of 145, but man, you better, you better be on your knees in gratitude that that gift was given to you. And you better not misuse it because if that thing takes the upper hand, you are in the hands of the worst possible agent of destruction. And of course, like, well, no, the intellect that goes most dreadfully wrong. That's not the worst possible threat. So obviously that's the wor. Possible threat. And so, you know, it says in the Gospels that if you've been given a lot, you'll. There'll be a lot demanded of you. And that goes for intelligent people. They better develop some humility, a virtue that's sadly lacking at the moment with our worship of pride, let's say pride and hedonism. Jesus brutal.

[Interviewer]

Those two ideas in particular, you think grip people today.

[Jordan Peterson]

Power, pride and hedonism. Yeah, that's a, that's a. Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you make your sexual identity paramount, like you've identified the eye with. With the impulse, essentially with the whim. Right. Because sex is a whim, like obviously. Now does it rule? Well, what, what is it that you are if sex rules? You're the wolf. That's for sure. That's for sure. And a wolf to yourself too. So, you know, when you see this ambivalence on the left, because on the one hand, anything goes in all forms of sexuality are to be like, celebrated, worshiped, essentially, because celebration and worship are the same thing. Yet sex is so dangerous, especially between like members of a young heterosexual pair, that absolutely every single bit of it has to be regulated. Right. To last word, it's like, well, you. Licentiousness breeds tyranny. That's why the of Babylon is on the great scarlet beast of the state at the end of time.

[Interviewer]

Tell me exactly what that means when you break it down.

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, imagine that when masculinity degenerates, the state pathologizes, the patriarchy pathologizes. Well, what happens to female? They pathologize too. Well, where do. How do they pathologize? In the direction of disinhibited sexuality. So 35% of Internet traffic is pornographic.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but that's not driven by women. That's driven by men.

[Jordan Peterson]

It's driven by bloody women too.

[Interviewer]

Whoa.

[Jordan Peterson]

Parading themselves. Absolutely. It might be like there's no shortage of electronic pimps and desperate engineers, let's say. But that doesn't mean the women who engage in that are innocent by any stretch of the imagination. They're. They're. They're doing the same thing with their sexuality that the, that the, that people granted the talent of intelligence do with their, with their, with their gift. Look at me. It's like. No, no, wrong, wrong. Those women online, displaying themselves, they're succubi. They're not human. You're a fool if you think that's human. You're a fool. At minimum, it's a machine. Human hybrid. A woman doesn't appear in a million places at the same time. Whatever that is, that's not a woman. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What do you make of the only fans dynamic between men and women? The more I look at this, the more I'm getting freaked out. There was a. A woman named.

[Jordan Peterson]

Stop looking there.

[Interviewer]

Well, looking at it truly through a research lens, but Belle Delphine, I believe is her name. Back in 2020, she sold 10 million pounds worth of her bath water.

[Jordan Peterson]

Oh, that's perfect.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peterson]

The whore of Babylon has a cup full of liquid, by the way, in gold. A gold cup full of liquid that she offers the world.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Jordan Peterson]

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. Look at how wonderful this is. It's actually. What does it say in the Book of Revelations? It's filled with the filth of her abominations. God. Perfect.

[Interviewer]

So what is that? It's people wanting to consume that thing they can't have that they have idolized.

[Jordan Peterson]

Of course. Of course. It's people wanting to consume the thing that is denied to them because they hid their light under a bushel.

[Interviewer]

Because they hid who they could become from themselves and never pursued it.

[Jordan Peterson]

Sure. And so they're not attractive to themselves or anyone else. Holy.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yes, that's for sure. Oh, yes. Brutal. Brutal.

[Interviewer]

So you've got women ascending to a position of power with that weird dynamic of postmodernism. They've been given a gift of being able to persuade men through their beauty to do what they will to get the attention that they want. Now, as a mechanical hybrid, they're able to appear in tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of places, sit on

[Jordan Peterson]

the chests of men and take their essence from them.

[Interviewer]

And then men are hiding their potential away from themselves because they're punished for. Yeah, I was going to say, but that.

[Jordan Peterson]

Then that gives them an excuse for not doing It. Because they think, well, I'm gonna. The young guys, let's say, who decide to be useless. You know, some of its genuine response to not being encouraged and to being punished, some of it is. But some of it. It's pretty convenient. It's like, you don't have to put your cross on your shoulder. It's like, no one wants me to do that anyways. It's like, well, yeah, that's always been the case. And I mean, in some ways, you know, there's. There's new impediments to striding forward confidently, but there's always been impediments.

[Interviewer]

You know, it's so interesting. So I. I train anybody that will listen that you need to have beliefs in your life. And since facts are overwhelming, it's not about recognizing what's true, it's about recognizing what's useful is how I think of it. So you have a set of beliefs, you have a set of values. So you have hierarchy.

[Jordan Peterson]

What's in relationship to the right hand. That's correct.

[Interviewer]

A thousand percent. Which is why I always lead with. You have to have a goal, and that goal needs to be honorable.

[Jordan Peterson]

So you've got. You see. So the thing is, that's where your God lies. While your God lies in the ineffable of. In the ineffable extent of what you regard as useful.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Jordan Peterson]

So imagine that useful tilts in a. In a direction. The sum total of all that would. Of all that would be most properly useful. The essence of that, that's the God. That's the implicit God.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I'm realizing I have built from the ground up a system that. That is designed to do all the things that religion does. It's really interesting. This to me is. It's fascinating because whenever you discover the same thing from multiple different disciplines, you can be pretty sure you're converging on the truth, because everybody's just going, what actually works? But the last thing, the last part of my cocktail is rules. So you need rules in your life, basically. There need to be things that you don't do.

[Jordan Peterson]

That's good. That's good. That's exactly right. That's. That's where conscious. So you could imagine the spirit of God in the Old Testament makes himself manifest in two forms, calling and conscience. And conscience. Is that what you just described? It's like the guardrails. It's like you're going off the path, you know, so there's fences and warnings on the conscience side, but it's the same thing. And it's the dynamic between. This is what happens in the movie Pinocchio. So Pinocchio is called out into the world. His father is benevolent, a benevolent creator. That's Geppetto. He's called out into the world to make himself manifest, to realize himself, to become real. And there's two things that attract him. He wants to go out and learn and have his adventure. That's the calling and. But that has to be allied with the conscience. And the reason for that is the calling alone gets him in trouble. Like, first of all, it entices him to becoming a narcissistic, psychopathic, manipulative actor. That's when he's on stage, right. Then it entices him into lying to get away with things and to get what he wants. So that's another extension, that manipulation. Then it entices him to become neurotic enough so that he can take a permanent holiday. Then he goes to Pleasure island, where he can engage in hedonism. That's where the slavers are. Right. And so he needs. That's what. That's what. Just the calling alone, you know, will take him places that are attractive but not appropriate. You need a conscience along for the ride. And that's Jiminy Cricket. Right, And Jiminy Cricket is what bugs you. Exactly. Yes. And so that's one of the places you can find your destiny is in what bothers you. There's going to be an array of things that make themselves manifest to you as callings of your conscience. Those are problems. Those are your problems. Why is that your problem? Problem. It's like, well, can you stop thinking about it? Does it bug you all the time? Well, hey, there you go. That's your destiny. Right?

[Interviewer]

Where does this all go? You've got. Canada has declined economically. You guys are now making 60% of what Americans are making. China, we can do worse than that. Oh, Jesus, let's hope not. China is watching everything. Everybody does. They're way beyond 1984. 2024 in the US is. It's terrifying, the election. Does it actually build up to civil war? I don't know. Yep. Uk, you've got conflict.

[Jordan Peterson]

Russia.

[Interviewer]

Ukraine, you've got conflict. Israel,

[Jordan Peterson]

Europe.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Like, where does this go?

[Jordan Peterson]

It depends on how many of us shoulder our crosses and walk uphill. I. I really mean that. Like, we're at that point, wake up, figure out which side you're on.

[Interviewer]

If you were a betting man, what odds do you give us civil war? What odds do you give World War iii?

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, we. We're already In World War iii. So I'd give that a hundred percent. How far will it go? Depends on how stiff necked we are. Right. So the Egyptian tyrant is visited by. Is it 10 plagues? The last plague is the destruction of the future itself. That's the death of the firstborn. So, you know, it depends on how hard we have to be hit before we wake up. And there's no end to that, you know, I mean, God destroys the whole world in a flood, you know, that never happened. It's like how about it's happening all the time? How about it's happened forever, it's happening now, it will happen forever. How high does the water have to rise till people learn. And what does it mean to learn? Well, this is why I'm a psychologist, not a politician or a theologian to whatever degree I lay pretensions to that. Someone concerned with spiritual matters, let's say psychological matters. Redemption is a matter of individual determination. So that's why I operate at the big level of the individual. How far will we have to go? Depends on how many sins you decide to continue harboring. How are you connected? How is that decision connected to the destiny of the world? We all bear the world on our shoulders. How. How can that be true? Here's one way of thinking about it. How much better would the people around you be if you were better? Some, obviously. What's the ultimate extent of that? What if you were everything you could be? That's what you're called upon to be. You're called upon to be everything you can be. Why not least? Because the. Try getting through the world without doing it. Then you'll end up in the position of Cain. You didn't offer your best. You'll be rejected by man, woman and God and yourself. And then what? Then you're bitter. Then you're fratricidal, Then you're murderous, then you're genocidal. Then the flood comes. Or you erect the Tower of Babel. It's always the same. And now you can see it like it's just right there. Why? Because it's happening so fast.

[Interviewer]

It's been amazing. Jordan. Where can people follow you? Where can they get your book?

[Jordan Peterson]

Well, I just. My book has just been announced. It won't be available until November, but you can pre order it. And so any standard book selling site has it available as of two days ago. People can come on and hear me talk about the things we talked about today on my tour. I've got 48 cities left. I'm going to tour with My wife who speaks as well. And he's getting very good at it. I'm going to tour with Jonathan Pagio for some of it and with Constantine Kissing. So that'll be very interesting. And then we're also launching Peterson Academy in very short order. And that's our attempt to provide people with the highest quality possible education, genuine education in the general arts and sciences domain at. At approximately the undergraduate level to as many people as we can possibly manage at the. In the most accessible possible way. That'll be launching very soon. I've been working on an app with my son called Essay that teaches people how to think and write. And you need to know that because you need to master the verbal domain so that you're articulate and competent. And young men are never told this. There's. Why do you like rap musicians? Because they're articulate. It's attractive. There's nothing more attractive than being articulate. So get your words in order there, guys. And this Essay app helps teaches you how to task the right questions, to search for the answers in the appropriate place, to examine the revelations that you're granted, to sort them out and to put yourself together. And so we organize ourselves at the highest level with words. So words matter. Every single word matters. Every single word. Those are the fruits of the tree that. Those are the fruits that the tree that you most truly are has to offer. That's a good way of thinking about it. Yeah. So I love that. That's the situation.

[Interviewer]

There it is. All right, everybody, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.

[Jordan Peterson]

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