Navigating A Collision of Values | Tom & Lisa Bilyeu (Replay)

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory
Episode: Navigating A Collision of Values | Tom & Lisa Bilyeu (Replay)
Date: February 9, 2024
Host(s): Tom & Lisa Bilyeu

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Overview

This episode of Impact Theory features Tom & Lisa Bilyeu in a candid, live Q&A format, focusing on the realities of navigating relationships—especially when values and communication styles collide. The bulk of the conversation explores how couples can align on expectations, handle differences in priorities, and maintain a supportive dynamic even when fundamental values differ. Drawing on their own 20-year partnership, they deliver practical frameworks and reflections for resolving everyday conflicts, from missed dates to messy living rooms and opposing worldviews.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting & Honoring the Social Contract in Relationships

• Question from Miranda Ritter: Her boyfriend is often late, forgets plans, or bails. Both claim to be independent.
• Tom’s Approach:
  • Every couple has an implicit “social contract”—shared agreements on expectations (e.g., showing up on time, communicating plans).
  • If a plan is made, it’s a mutual commitment; if one party breaks it, the respectful route is to apologize and propose real solutions for next time rather than issue empty apologies.
  • Quote: “You have to say, this is what we as a couple have agreed and expect. ... What happens when we don’t meet it?” (Tom, 02:05–05:16)
• Lisa emphasizes:
  • It’s crucial to discuss why lapses happen—is it disregard or just obliviousness? The partner’s response matters ("If he just says, ‘Oh, whatever, it’s not a big deal,’ … it’s going to make her feel insignificant.” Lisa, 07:26)
  • Collaboratively set up reminders and structure for success, not failure.

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2. Collisions of Values: When Core Views Differ

• Tom explains:
  • Value collisions (i.e., punctuality vs. indifference to time, tidiness vs. tolerating mess) can be persistent and emotionally charged.
  • The solution: have open, sometimes hard discussions about what truly matters, acknowledge there is no objective “right”, and negotiate rules of engagement.
  • Quote: “It is not objectively true that a clean house is better than an untidy house.” (Tom, 09:19)
• Lisa shares:
  • Everyday frictions (like moving a TV after gaming) become symbolic of deeper respect and compromise.
  • “Even if it’s ridiculous, it’s important to me.” (Lisa, 12:00)

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3. Determining If Partners Are Willing to Engage

• Question from Gail: If someone repeatedly breaks the social contract, do they actually want to be there?
• Tom’s response:
  • Partner selection is critical: if someone isn’t willing to negotiate or care about your happiness, “you are set up for a lifetime of misery.” (Tom, 13:10)
  • Look for willingness to engage, compromise, and sometimes put the partner’s happiness above personal preference.

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4. External Expectations vs. Internal Decisions

• Prenup Question: How to handle parental pressure to get a prenuptial agreement?
• Tom:
  • “I don’t give a what other people want … It does not matter what the outside world thinks, it matters intrinsically, when I look at the situation, what makes sense to me.” (Tom, 15:23–16:13)
  • External advice should only be followed if it matches your internal logic and needs.
• Lisa adds:
  • Explains their approach to money and debts when marrying; the key is joint decision-making that feels fair on both sides.

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5. Long Distance Relationships and Communication

• Question from Cheyenne: Pursuing a long-distance relationship with a poor communicator—does it have a chance?
• Tom:
  • “All you have in a long distance relationship is communication. If they’re a poor communicator … that’s a recipe for disaster.” (Tom, 21:08)
  • Only consider it if both commit to actively sharing internal emotional life; otherwise, expect suspicion and frustration.
• Lisa:
  • It’s possible to help a partner get better at communicating, but only if they want to work on it, too.

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6. Handling Transparency and Trust Issues

• Question from Anna: Should you always disclose who you’re with when going out?
• Tom:
  • Radical transparency is the baseline: “It’s crazy town to me that somebody would feel that they had to be reserved, that they couldn’t just say who it was.” (Tom, 38:09)
  • Any concealment raises red flags unless it’s for a positive surprise.
• Lisa:
  • The bigger issue is why you feel suspicious. Is there a pattern of dishonesty, or could it be an overreaction? Open, honest communication is crucial whenever doubts arise.

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7. When Logic and Emotion Collide

• Question: Balancing relationships where one is logical, the other emotional.
• Tom:
  • Ideally, both partners are close to the “middle” in their traits, but if not, leverage the differences strategically (e.g., in business, logic can help overcome emotional blocks).
  • The process requires clarity on when emotion or logic should guide decision-making and learning when to pause discussions if one is overwhelmed.
  • Quote: “I just can’t talk about it right now. So give me an hour … I’ll be able to be much more articulate about how I feel.” (Lisa, 51:16)

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8. On Forgiveness in Relationships

• Question from Eric: Can you be with someone who doesn’t believe in forgiveness?
• Tom (unequivocal):
  • “No, you cannot be. That is absolute madness. … The only thing that destroys relationships [is] not letting go of shit.” (Tom, 52:13)
  • Forgiveness is essential; holding onto resentment is a “mental dysfunction” that will poison any relationship.
• Lisa:
  • If forgiveness isn’t genuine, old issues will resurface. Once resolved, past issues should stay in the past.
  • Openness about struggling to let go, and seeking support, is a sign of a healthy partnership.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom: “You have to agree to things. You have to come up with what the rules of engagement are going to be.” (02:50)
• Lisa: “If he’s just like, ‘Oh, whatever, like, it’s not a big deal. I’m working, get over it.’ It’s going to make her feel definitely insignificant.” (07:26)
• Tom: “It is not objectively true that a clean house is better than an untidy house.” (09:19)
• Lisa: “Even if it’s ridiculous, it’s important to me.” (12:00)
• Tom: “Partner selection is 80% of the battle.” (13:10)
• Tom: “It does not matter what the outside world thinks, it matters intrinsically.” (16:13)
• Tom: “All you have in a long distance relationship is communication. ...A poor communicator? That’s a recipe for disaster.” (21:08)
• Lisa: “I just can’t talk about it right now. Give me an hour… then I can hear the logic and advice you give me.” (51:16)
• Tom: “No, you cannot be [with someone who doesn’t forgive]. ...The only thing that destroys relationships is not letting go.” (52:13)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:29–08:16: Approaching missed commitments and communication breakdowns
• 08:16–12:20: Collision of values: tidiness, punctuality, and respect
• 13:10–14:38: Selection in relationships and engaging with care
• 15:13–19:35: Handling outside pressures and financial merging in marriage
• 21:08–25:31: Long distance relationships, communication challenges
• 28:29–31:29: Transparency with partners and trust-building
• 34:31–37:04: Deep dive into small habit clashes and mutual respect
• 45:22–51:16: Logic vs. emotion—bridging different processing styles
• 52:13–57:11: The necessity of forgiveness; how unresolved issues corrode relationships

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Takeaways

• Set explicit agreements: Don’t rely on unwritten expectations—agree consciously.
• Respect values, even when not shared: A compromise on small things can be symbolic of bigger respect.
• Relentless honesty and open communication build true trust over time—even when it’s uncomfortable in the short term.
• Forgiveness is an absolute requirement for a thriving, lasting partnership. Lingering grudges will destroy it.
• Leverage your differences: Emotionality and logic both have their place—use timing and communication tactics to bridge gaps.
• Choose wisely and don’t expect to change the non-negotiables in a partner.

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This episode is rich in lived wisdom, humorous anecdotes, and actionable strategies to help partners build resilient, respectful relationships, even (and especially) when their values collide.

Transcript

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[Tom Bilyeu]

Leslie.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

That makes sense. Sorry.

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[Tom Bilyeu]

You're listening to the Impact Theory podcast, your source of empowering ideas and actionable techniques from the world's highest achievers. Join host Tom Bilyeu, serial entrepreneur and co founder of the billion dollar brand Quest Nutrition, on a journey to unlock your potential and realize your vision of success. Welcome to Impact Theory. All right, what is up, everybody? Welcome to Relationship Theory Live. We are coming to you Offset today. And I think because it's Labor Day. Happy Labor Day, everybody. I think the odds of us getting through this without barking is essentially zero. So just everybody brace yourselves for that one. We've got family in the house. We've got manuchis everywhere. Nice. There we go. All right, I'm down for that. Cool.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Happy Labor Day.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Happy Labor Day.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

So I guess what you say in America, do you say happy?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Not really sure. Yes. I think I probably wish somebody happy Labor Day like three times in my life.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

But I was told you can't wear white after Labor Day, so I actually had planned to wear white.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And then that's a way more east coast thing, if I'm honest. Yeah.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Well, I hope everyone at home is enjoying their Labor Day weekend.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Happy Monday.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Happy Monday indeed.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

All right, so, guys, we're taking questions, so please submit them as we go. And let's get get this party started. All right, so this question is from Miranda Ritter from Last Relationship Theory. That we did.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

My boyfriend and I are young, 21. He's always busy because he works so much. He Will promise to spend time with me, forget we made plans. And Bell because he has something better to do or just show up late. Any advice on how to work through this or communicate better? We're both pretty independent people, and that comes from Miranda Ritter.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, it's very interesting that she signed off by saying we're both very independent people, which is her trying to slide in. Sort of a value system about not wanting to put too many constraints, I would imagine. But here's the truth. You have to agree to things. You have to come up with what the rules of engagement are going to be. You have to say, this is what we as a couple have agreed and expect. And if that is, hey, we make plans. You write it down, you set an alarm, like whatever that thing is, then if you don't make it, like, I shouldn't have to punish you or really even say anything other than, hey, by the way, you missed it. And your own code should trigger to say, right? And we totally agreed that that wouldn't happen. I am incredibly sorry. I didn't do the things that I said I was going to do. Set an alarm, whatever, to make sure that I remember. And here's what I'm going to do to make sure that this doesn't happen again next time. And that's something that I think people often don't do, is they apologize. It feels somewhat trite, especially if you have a history of. If you don't lay out what it is that you plan to do the next time to make sure that that doesn't happen, but like a really simple. And this goes back to my speech and debate days in high school. There's this thing called a social contract. So you have a social contract with somebody that says, I'm going to do xyz. I think you spell that out. You say, not only what when we make plans, A, don't agree if you can't make it, if you haven't checked your calendar, whatever, B, once you do agree, like now the onus is totally on you. Um, C. Or three, I can't remember if I was doing one, twos, Az, uh, whatever the third one in that sequence is, you want to make sure that you guys have agreed on not the consequences because that makes it sound too dire, but, like, what does it mean to not show up and do exactly what you said? So really laying everything out from how we're going, what it's going to be, our agreement in terms of what events that triggers. And then lastly, what happens when we don't meet it so you and I have very clear rules of engagement for any of those things. So I'm very forgetful. I actually have a great degree of empathy for our man, but I've gone to very extreme lengths to make sure that I show up. And then this is one thing that's very important to note. You set me up for success, not failure. So when we have. This is actually critical. I can't believe I almost didn't say this.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Um, so I was gonna cover it. Oh, then no, no, no, no, no.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Give it to him. So making sure that you set the other person up for success, that you give them the. The keys of the kingdom, as it were. So I've told you, look, I. It isn't that I don't love you. I just. For whatever reason, like, I have not yet developed the skill of holding those things in my memory. So I am very forgetful when it comes to that stuff. I get caught up in other things. I get very excited, whatever, or stressed. Who knows why I'm not really, like, able to just retain all the different things that I have going on. So you'll remind me. In fact, literally, this.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I was going to wonder if you're

[Tom Bilyeu]

going to say, right, so the fact that we are doing relationship theory right now. If the cameras had been, like, following us for the last 15 minutes, you would see my sister and I were hanging out and Lisa sent me a text that said, 15 minute warning. And I was like, 15 minute warning to what?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Every Monday we do relationship.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. But this is a slightly different Monday because of the holiday, so I'm not used to my sister being here and all that stuff. So I had to remind you. You literally had to remind me. And I at first had no idea what you were trying to remind me of. So anyway, it was a mad scramble. I had to shave, get dressed, brush my teeth. Like, everything. I was a. I was not prepared at all. So. But if you hadn't reminded me and it had been a test, I would have failed that test. Then I would have resentment to you because it's like, if you did remember, why didn't you say something? So get into this really weird cycle. So agree on what the rules are and then really try to help each other out.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Right. Because that's the question. That's really the question I have here is like, is he doing it? Because, like, he's just oblivious to her feelings and it's like, oh, whatever, it's not a big deal. Like, if I'm late and he's not realizing how much it's affecting her. Or is it that he's so engrossed in what he's doing that he actually doesn't really mean it and he doesn't mean to, like, belay or forget. And so how can they work together to get what she wants and then as a result, also get what he wants and then also how he handles it? Like you had said at the beginning, if he comes out and he's forgotten the day or he's forgotten plans and he's just like, what's the big deal? Like, who cares? I was 20 minutes late. Then that makes her feel more insignificant. It doesn't make her feel special. So now she may be like, I'm so supportive of his work. He's working a lot, he's really busy. I'm always supportive. But when we have, when we make plans, he seems like he doesn't give a shit. That's not going to make her feel good either. So I think it's how he approaches it. If or, you know, whoever's late or whoever's, you know, leaving the other person stranded, how do you handle it? Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I had no intention of being lay of disappointing you. Please. I hope you know that I love you and this is how you help me communicate better. Remind me, set me alarms. Yeah. If he's just like, oh, whatever, like, it's not a big deal. I'm working, get over it. It's going to make her feel definitely insignificant.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, you really touched on something super important, which is what do you, like, what do you do if he says, what's the big deal? Like, I'm only 30 minutes late right now. You have a collision of values and that's where things get weird. And so it's super critical as you guys agree on the rules of engagement, that you actually agree. And it's better, way better to have the fight at that moment to say, I don't give a shit about being on time. And that's where like, have that fundamental conversation. It's not an easy conversation to have, but this is like with keeping the house tidy. Right. So this has been an ongoing struggle for you and I because I don't value it and you do. And so what do you do when you get into a collision of values? You have to have that conversation so that you can come to an agreement like where it's really important to you and that I should be taking it as important to me in that moment because as a recognition of the importance of your happiness and all of that, the give and take, the compromise of the relationship. But that also at the same time, people don't get it in their heads that, well, I believe my way and thusly I act as if it were objectively true. Right? It is not objectively true that a clean house is better than an untidy house. Now, I know that there are people in the feed that like, in fact, we're getting hearts and thumbs. Thumbs up on that one. But it's like, because some people will vehemently agree with you that, like, it's intrinsically valuable. What are you talking about? And then other people will agree with me. And so it's like, that's where you have to have that real conversation about, okay, we now disagree at a value system level. You're not going to convince me, right? We've been together almost 20 years and I'm still not convinced, so. And nor are you, by the way, because we both have an emotional response. It winds me up to no end when I set something down and then somebody moves it like, like, your face says everything. I love it.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Because some. Something. He means a lot of things throughout the entire day. So he's literally accumulated all these, like, empty bottles and wrappers and.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, but that's not. Whatever. I don't care about the bottles and wrappers, so don't try to be cheeky. You know, what I care about are like, documents, papers, and. But it's still messy and so it's gonna get moved. And then that drives me.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Because also, if you. You work so hard and you're like, I'm not going to spend. A, you don't want to spend time having to look for something, and B, you don't want to have to spend time moving things to tidy. And so someone who's as ambitious as he is, you know, it's always, how do you. How do you maximize that three minutes here, that two minutes there, that one minute there? And so for you, it means just leave shit everywhere. And so for me, who likes a tidy house, and we work from our house, so it gets very difficult to keep it clean and keep it tidy. And so that has been one of our battles where may seem small to the outside, but it's been for 20 years where I want a tidy house, and you're like, I don't want to waste my time. So we've definitely tried to find our ways, like, okay, so I'm not going to waste your time on most things, but these are the fundamental little things that actually show whether you value me and respect my wishes, even if you don't care. So I think that that's really important that we've had that talk. For example, maybe our TVs. So we have three TVs all lined up in a row when we play video games. But it blocks doors. So I always want one tv. Move back once we're finished. But I always forget on Sunday. So come Monday when you're in work mode, there's no way I'm going to ask you to move your TV on a Monday. So I have to try and remember now that if I can ask you on a Sunday, because you don't mind doing it on a Sunday and you don't feel like I'm interrupting your work mode, and I get what I want, so I try to remind you to move it back on a Sunday. It may seem ridiculous and small, but trust me, it's those little things that now, I don't perceive it as you just. You're being disrespectful to me. Because if you're just like, no, I'm not doing that. Like, who cares? Like, that's on you. That doesn't feel like we've got a relationship, that we're actually working respectfully or being respectful to each other, even if it's ridiculous, it's important to me.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. There's actually even more fascinating nuance. I don't want to derail the whole thing around that, but, like, yeah, there's conflicting code elements. When you go to move things, which I feel is my job. It gets really interesting.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Okay, so please submit some questions. We are answering live. We've got a couple more coming through. So Gail, Felician said, based on you said your social contract. It's all right. Don't worry. That's another thing. He values tech a lot more than I do.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Falling. Wonderful.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

So sorry. Gail of Felician said, if someone doesn't meet the social contract regularly, does he really want to be there? Because we're talking about social contracts. I think that's important question to ask yourself.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. I mean, here's the reality. Selection is. Selection is like 80% of the battle. And if you've chosen somebody who isn't willing to come to the table to negotiate, to agree to engage with love, by the way, and compassion and wanting the other person to win and wanting to see them happy and finding out, like, what are those ways where it isn't diminishing my happiness too much? Like, how do we find that balance if they don't come to the table prepared to do that you, you are set up for a lifetime of misery. Like that is going to be so obnoxious that yeah, you've really got to find somebody who's going to engage in a way that you think is meaningful and all that because it's problematic. By the way, should I be interested?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Trying to make it a little pretty, but no, you're right. I mean, if you say prettier pretty. Yeah. I didn't know what other.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I've never once in my life wanted to be pret. Thank you.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

But you're right. Social contract, you both have to be into it now. Picking off, taking my money. You know, you have to both be given it because if you're like really working on a social contract and listening and paying attention to what the other person needs and the other person isn't, at some point, like I would have to either figure out how to make us both like focused and that we're both willing to do it or like you said, selection matters. Maybe they're just not interested. And then you have to assess how you feel about that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's selfish. It's crazy selfish. And I'm all about being selfish and selfish desires and all of that. Like there's a thing but when you get there is sort of a rock bottom level where if you're not willing to address it at that point, if you're not willing to see what works for both of you to really like if you don't come into a discussion like that, trying to say, like, how do I help my partner also win and be happy and get what they want? Like that's. Yeah, that. That does not a good relationship make.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

All right, we've got a question from

[Tom Bilyeu]

Daniel Bro, our boy Downbrew Fitness.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Oh, is that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Oh, that's interesting. He comes up as Dan Bro. What would you have done that either said a parents wanted you to get a prenup when you got married?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, wow. So, hey, welcome to my mind. I don't give a what other people want. Like that wouldn't even phase me. My parents could. Could form a picket line outside. Both parents could form a picket line outside. I wouldn't care. Now there are circumstances in like if something happened to Lisa, God forbid, in my next relationship, I would 100 have a prenup so that like whether my parents wanted it or not is irrelevant. But had they wanted it when you and I got together, that would have been absurd to me. But so yes, basically it does not matter what the outside world thinks. It matters intrinsically. When I look at the situation, what makes sense to me. If what they want makes sense to me, I would do it. If what they want did not make sense to me, I wouldn't do it. And I would not crumble to that pressure. That's like an internal code thing. So.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah, I hear you. But I do think that at that stage, you know, you've had a whole lifetime of your parents kind of influencing you and go.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I was just gonna say, make sure you're answering the question that he asked, which is, what would you do if external forces wanted you to do something? It almost doesn't matter about the prenup.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Like, no, I would never succumb to it. You're right. But in regards to money, let's say you're coming to the table where one of you has more than the other. So we've spoken about this before, but when we got married, I had some money saved up from things that my parents had helped me basically save up over the years. And you came into the relationship in debt with college debt. So I had no college debt. I had some money saved up. And you were the opposite. I. There was something weird to me about us getting married and getting together and then all my savings going off to pay for your college loan. Like, I. I don't know why that felt weird.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So we love me enough, it's fine.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Right? I wasn't sure if it was gonna last, but we had actually spoken about that and we said, okay, like, coming into the relationship. To me it had to be joint, like, and we were quite young at the time. So for me it was the money has to be joined, our love and our lives have to come together and, you know, basically bond as one. So it was okay. This money that I've saved up is going to go into something that we're building together. So whether it's going to be, you know, a house will put like a down payment. Maybe this will help us get an apartment to rent so that you. We can look for work, you know, something joint. And then your student loan would then be paid off with an accumulation of the money that we're bringing to the table together during our marriage. So we had that money saved for a house and a down payment, but then your student loans were being paid off as a monthly that we put as a bill.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Which is terrible financial advice, by the way.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

You think that's bad?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Because you should. Yes, and I agree. I'm just saying, like, from a. What's logical to two early 20 somethings. Fine.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I'm saying pure mathematical financial advice standpoint, you should be looking at the cost of money, what's your interest rate, all of that. From a purely financial standpoint, it would make more sense to pay off the debt. And I'm not saying that's what you do. I'm just saying don't take that as financial advice, which it may actually be great relationship and terrible financial advice.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And that's. Look, at the end of the day, I'm just going to give the advice that I felt sure at least what worked for me and worked for you, you. Because if we'd come into the relationship even at that age. So bear in mind, we were young, I was 21 when we met, so. But if we'd come into the relationship and you were like, oh, hey, all these savings that you've had over the years, once we get married, I really want to pay off this big debt that I have. It would have made me feel weird. And so it was kind of like, well, I think that we have to bond, we have to come together as a couple. But all these savings that my family has kind of helped me with, I think it should go to something that is joint, like a home, and then we'll put it together. Doesn't mean that if I was to earn money, you were to earn money, we weren't going to pay off your debt together because I think that's important. It became a bill for both of us, but it became a bill, not just a let's pay this off.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And then also we wouldn't have been able to pay it off, but yeah, we would have been able to.

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[Lisa Bilyeu]

But I think that it's those little, like, mental things that I like. I. I don't know what other word to use, but it would have made me feel weird using my savings to pay off your student loan. But I think it's important to recognize that it would have made me a little uncomfortable. I'm not quite sure why though, why

[Tom Bilyeu]

it's important to recognize that or why it made you feel.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah, why it made me feel weird. I don't know. You're marrying me for my money. Yeah. All right, guys, if you've got any more questions, please submit them and we'll move on to the next one. So, Che Chian Torres. What if you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Cheyenne. Cheyenne Torres.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Sorry. Thank you. What if you're trying to start a long distance relationship? I know communication is key, but the person I'm trying to pursue is poor, is a poor communicator and knows that about themselves.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. So all you have in a long distance relationship is communication. If they're a poor communicator. If they're a poor communicator, they know it like, oh, God. The, the big problem with communication is quite frankly, a willingness to express. Now, I guess if they don't understand themselves what's going on, but that's even more dangerous. If somebody understands they may not be an eloquent communicator. And I fully respect that. Not everybody's going to be an eloquent communicator. But if you're able to look inside and go, these are my feelings and I'm going to address them then like that, that's critical. And they've got to be willing to commit to that. If you're at all even going to consider a long distance relationship, they're going to have to commit to externalizing their internal world. Otherwise this isn't going to work. It will be. Yeah, it will be a disaster of epic proportions because you're just going to be guessing all the time what they're thinking, feeling, going through. And it is hard emotionally to be on your own where you may really feel a need for a connection, a need just to hear what's going on, a need to feel support in what's happening for you. And when they're not there and you don't have that like, physical thing where you can look at them and just get a vibe right there. And whether it's we smell pheromones, I have no idea. But you pick up so much more when you share proximity with somebody than you do when you're physically apart. So all you have is what they're able to externalize about their internal emotional state to be there for you verbally. So, yeah, if they're not committed to really working hard to externalize that world, if it. It will leave you guessing as to what they're going through. And 99 times out of a hundred, your guess will be painted with something bad. You're just going to assume the worst. So, yeah, I would say, especially if you're at the beginning of a relationship, that that's just a. Super. Dangerous isn't the right word. But it, Yeah, I, I wouldn't do it. Person.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah. And I think it's. If he's a bad communicator, how do you recognize certain things that he does that you can then help him come out of that? So like, if it's because it's long distance, is it when you speak to him on the phone, do you hear a tone where he just like, you can tell when he's frustrated but he's not communicating. Like, speak to him and say, what do you need from me in these moments? Right. If you're finding it hard to communicate, how can I be a part of that? How can I help? How can we do this together? So if it's like, oh, he sounds frustrated on the phone, does he want me to keep asking or does he want me to say, look, I can tell that right now you, you seem frustrated. Know that I care about you. Do you want me to call you in 30 minutes so we can talk about it later? Like, how does he want to communicate? Communicate with you or how can you help him communicate? I think that's. And look, of course he has to want to. And he has.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And that is my only point. If he's willing to work on it, yay. If he's not willing to work on it, you have a nightmare scenario. Because let me tell you, when you start going, hey, you seem frustrated. That's going to piss him off 10x and now you're backing him into an emotional corner and it spirals the fuck out of control rapidly. Like, hey, you really want to get in an argument with your significant other? Go up and say, everything okay? Like, you seem upset. Are you upset? Like that just like winds people up. It is so universal. Like, yeah, for sure. And I can like see your wheels processing.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Like, the reason is because it's one of those. You don't necessarily ask in that way. Say like, wow, you seem really mad. Everything all right? So it's like the, almost the accusatory thing at the.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. But even you and I, who I will say we're high level communicators with lots of rules and all that. Like, how many times have we wound the other person up by going, you right, like the first one. Okay, fair enough. But it's when you, like seeing you,

[Lisa Bilyeu]

like, you know, really bad mood, it's like there's nothing that's going to put someone in a bad, worse faster.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, 100%. And now exacerbate that by being on Skype hype. I mean, it's just.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

It's gonna spiral. Well, we didn't have Skype when we first met.

[Tom Bilyeu]

We did not. We had email, but we also. Here's the thing that I really want people to know about our long distance relationship is we worked pretty tirelessly to close the distance. You were coming here, I was going there. Like, we never spent too much time apart.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And when people are like, I'm settling in for a long distance relationship, that's where I get super nervous. I don't know why people would do that, to be fair. Like, from the moment we realized that we were in love, like, every neuron that I had was like, how do we stop being apart? It wasn't like, okay, well, it's going to be like this for the foreseeable future. It was, how do we stop this?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah. And I think some people, though, prefer it. Some people like that distance relationship. And I. I somewhat get it. I would never personally do it, but it's the adrenaline rush. Right. Where you haven't seen someone. You remember when we would have to travel to see. It's the excitement. So it kind of brings.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Are you trying to drag me into this madness? Because in no universe would I thrive in that.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I know, but no way.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And do you remember me saying, like, I've had to make a conscious decision not to turn you off because being apart is so painful that either I am and I remember making this decision, either I obsess over you, which will make sure that I find this way. And that love and all of that is, like, red hot in my soul and never look away from it. Not for a minute knowing that the only thing that would make me feel better is either you being here or me looking away and not obsessing over it and not thinking about it. And I remember thinking if I do that, that it will immediately relieve this pain that I'm in with you not being around. But you will grow distant. Like, I'll just forget about you. I mean, that is. That is the truth of the human condition. And so, dude, like, that is not a world I want to be drugged into, where it's like the highs and low. Nope. Like that. That to me. And I actually agree with you, there are people for whom they love that. It's low maintenance. They can come in and out when they want. I just don't think it's. It's. It's a lasting recipe for a thriving relationship. There I said it like, I don't have judgment. If you want to do that, it's not going to thrive. But if what you want to be in is. Is a dysfunctional, non thriving, no judgment, no judgment relationship, then go for it. But yeah, that, that's just functional. Like, I literally don't care. It doesn't impact my life. So I don't think you're a bad person for wanting it. I just think that from a relationship perspective, I way too deeply understand the neurochemistry to be like, oh, it's fine, fine. It. It will cause the stress.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Long time. I hear what you're saying. We would never do it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Apparently, I would never do it. I don't know. You. Like, it's. The jury's out.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

All right, so this is from Edda Santos. I think relationships boil down to two people looking out for each other, growing together, respecting each other's space and interests, and most important, keeping it sexy. Do not forget that part. Don't let passion just. Just die due to stopping being romantic.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So not a question exactly.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Respect and actually totally agree.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Keep it sexy. Yeah, about that.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

So interesting. Dominique Laundry says people who seek a long distance relationship don't really want to be in a relationship. Do you believe that?

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, I mean, look to. They don't want to be, certainly in what I was describing as a relationship, the thriving, the connection, all of that, being somebody's number one. But they may want to be in that kind of relationship. Right. Like you were saying, there are some people for whom that would be great. Like you dip in, dip out. And I don't think that being in a relationship, there's. There is. It is not a morally superior stance. Right. So people that want to be single, like, fully respect that. Go be single. Not a problem in any way, shape or form. So I'm sure that it is the right answer for a lot of people. It just isn't a. An emotionally thriving relationship.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I've never seen one ever in all my years of traveling this planet.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah. All right, this is from. I want to say, like, just keep breathing, Bernie.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, no. I mean, we can. What was. I was. There was something earlier that I was really tempted to go down the rabbit hole having to do with. Oh, the collision of values. So when we were talking earlier about coming up with rules of engagement for your relationship about, like, if. So the. The original question was, somebody's constantly late. They forget about things that you've scheduled together as a couple. And I'm saying, have that discussion about where you have a Collision of values. Now, Lisa gave the example of when we play video games with my sister, we line up three TVs. Now it. And because the room isn't big enough, like, it ends up blocking the doors on either side a little bit. It. And to me, not fussing is like a super high value. It is such a waste of time to, like, move TVs in place and out of place purely for aesthetic reasons. But it's important to my wife now. If we forget about it on a Sunday, and then it comes to money, I'm in work mode. So now it's like that. That is a crime against humanity to move away from what you're trying to build, your goals, your ambition and all of that for something that's purely aesthetic. Like, that is so anathema to who I am as a person. Like, I can't get involved in that. And you would happily just go move the TV, right? But the TV's heavy. And so now I have this code where if it's something like that, moving heavy stuff, hard label labor, something that's difficult, like, that is my responsibility. So now it's like, I want you to just leave it alone. That's my value, right? Like, there's no reason we don't even go in that room on the week, on. During the week. So there's no reason to go fuss with the tv. But it weighs on your mind. And so you'll go move the tv, which triggers my value system. I can't let you do that because you might get hurt or whatever. So now I have to go move the tv. It is this fascinating, like, swirl of death.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And when I'm moving the TV on the Monday, I'm a little annoyed that

[Tom Bilyeu]

it didn't get done on a Sunday. Yeah, I'm annoyed that you're doing it.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

So it's. It's the small things, but, like, they really do weigh on you. So I will move the TV on the Monday, but I'll be.

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, you won't. Because unless you do it silently when

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I'm not around, I will go to do. And the funny thing is, though, I know that moving it will annoy you. So I sometimes leave it because I'm like, he's going to get annoyed if I move it. But now I'm frustrated because it's just sitting there. So I'm like, do I keep getting frustrated and leave the TV there? Do I bug you and ask you to do it knowing that you're going to hate moving it during the week? Do I move it myself and get, get secretly super frustrated and be like,

[Tom Bilyeu]

you know, in spiraling out of control

[Lisa Bilyeu]

in my mind, like I can't believe it I'm having to do this.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And so it's figuring it out. It's saying, okay, he's happily moving on and this may be silly, but it's these little things, okay, he'll do on Sunday with no problem if I remind him. So now I just have to own. I have to remind you to do it because then Monday it doesn't come and the TV's not blocking it. So to prevent all of these, these silly little things that weigh on you and me going back and forth. Okay, I'll just own I have to set an alarm. I have to remind you do it and you won't complain and you would do it happy. And so but if I forget and then on Monday I forget and on Monday it's like it's my fault. Which is why I'll then go and move it. But I'm still secretly annoyed.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So those are all the like hyper specifics. But what I want people to understand is there you're going to have collisions of value systems. So. So her arguments are not compelling to me and my arguments are not compelling to her. So now we both have this fundamental belief about how something should be treated and you have to talk through them. Like we've talked about this ad nauseam so that we understand where those conflicts of values are. We understand that trying to persuade relentlessly people in the mistaken belief that your way is the right way. And this is. I see couples collide on this all the time. Like I get it like my. And it was so sweet by the way, earlier. It'll be hilarious for you to watch this back. You are actually coming to my defense about like why I'm liking you're like, he's so ambitious and I thought that's so sweet. But I don't like, I would love it if you actually internalize that and believed it and all of us. That would be amazing because there would just be no friction on that point. But I don't even think that my way of is objectively correct. Right. It is true to me based on my value system and all of that, that. But it is not objectively true. And so when people can understand like and not get aggressive and with your own stance, right, like don't fool yourself into thinking that your way actually is like there's some empirical truth to be identified and bestowed upon your significant other who's just too dumb to see it right. And you see people get stuck in that rut where it's like, this fool just can't see that my way is the right way. At least you and I, like, like, I could very easily. And, oh, this is fascinating. And I don't know if we have more questions. I'll just keep riffing, but we do, but keep going. So one thing that's. Oh, God. Oh, If I lose this, I'm going to be very annoyed with myself. Objectively correct.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I'll punch your thoughts about being your way.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, it's something around there. And it's important, too. It will come up at some point in this.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

But that is so true. And so when we first met, I had. I've got this whole history of the way I've been brought up that, you know, things should be a certain way. I had to tidy my bedroom every day. I had to make my bed every single morning. And if it's not, like, I'd get punished. But it was just rules of the house. And so I would learn, you always make a bed. You always hide your room. So when I met you and you were so messy, I absolutely came to the table. Like, my way was more superior. Like, how can you live like this? And it would be like that, right? With the attitude of, like. Like, of course you have to clean. What do you mean? Like, that's ridiculous. But we didn't realize about, you know, what you had just said of, like, making sure that you don't come to the table thinking, well, of course your way is right. And the other person has to adhere to it. Like, that isn't the way. And when I realized, wow, that wasn't the way you had been brought up. That wasn't the way that you had worked. And it doesn't make you lazy. I mean, you're like one of the hardest working people I've ever met in my life. So it wasn't that. It's just that you don't value it like I do. So then we had to really break down, what are the values that it has? So, like, now we don't make our bed, right? So it's like, okay, that's not good enough. But, hey, babe, I would like you to pick up your socks. So what is my value system? Where can I give and where can I take? The same with you. Where can you give and where can you take? And then how do you come to that Compound. But if you're just trying to make the other person feel guilty or ashamed that they do it, like, right, because that's how I came to the table. Like, oh God, you're like a slob. If you don't make your bed, of course you should make your bed. So I absolutely pass judgment on you for not making your bed. But. But it's like, how much, like, if I really care, I'll make it myself. And now I just don't. Blogger.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, rightly so. And contempt becomes the, the issue in here. If, if people don't recognize that there is no absolute right, absolute wrong, you begin to build contempt. Right. If you can at least say, like, I feel really strongly about this and this aligns with my value system to do it this way. But I get it. Like, it's a value system that I have created that wasn't, you know, bestowed upon the universe. So. And I think that's where people really get themselves in trouble, is because they feel it and it feels so real and right to them.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Well, no babysitters today.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, now he's in on it. Come here. Come here, you. You're the good one. You're the well behaved one. Come here. Quiet.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I completely lost where we were.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, we've got the monster.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Did you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You were about to ask another question. I think we'd finished that thought.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

All right.

[Grainger University Maintenance Narrator]

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[Lisa Bilyeu]

So this is from Anna Dine. Hello. Thank you very much for your show. Thank you. I'd like to ask you, do you always tell your partner when you are going out and with who? Because it happens. What? It happens once that my partner just told me, I'm going to hang out to drink with some friends. And then later I saw on Facebook the people with who he was with at the party. Why doesn't he just tell me who he's hanging out with?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay, so first of all, yes, it's crazy town to me that somebody would feel that they had to be reserved, that they couldn't just say who it was. But it's also possible there's a lot lurking in that. Like what? Oh, God. We to give really usable insights here, we'd really have to understand the relationship.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But there is no universe unless I was planning a surprise for you in which you wouldn't know who I was going to be with. Right. So I wouldn't even cross my mind not to tell you. So that's where it gets weird, is it makes me ask the question, what circumstance would need to be real for me to not want to tell you? Now, I can think of some. If you got really obsessive about something and were really weird about certain people that I hang out with now, I believe everything is my fault. So I'd be asking myself, what have I done to create either insecurity or jealousy or whatever around a given person or set of people or whatever to try to identify, like, what's happening there? But that. That is not a healthy sign. How about that? That's the best I can give you without knowing more detail. It's not a healthy sign. So, yeah, like, we're, like, we aggressively disclose things.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Well, the question also, though, to be honest, is, does. Is there something going on that she doesn't trust him? Because if you said to me, hey, I'm gonna go hang out with Nick.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right? And then all of a sudden, forget Nick. I'm gonna go hang out with my ex girlfriend. Make it hard.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

No, I'm. I am gonna make it hard. You tell me you're gonna go hang out with Nick. Then I see on Facebook, on your Instagram stories, you. You're with your ex girlfriend.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What is Nick there as well?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

See, that's what I don't. Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I mean, because if it's like a straight switcheroo, right?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Then okay, but imagine it is a str. Straight switch room. Nick's not there.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And you all of a sudden are at a party.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I wouldn't think twice. I'd be like, oh, something must have happened.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right? But you do ask, right? So as soon as I come home, right?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

So that's the question. Like, but she found out on social media. So he. Did he then lie afterwards? I think is important. Did he come home and go, oh, I was out here. And then is lying or when he came home, like, oh, my God, yes. I end up at a party. Like, does she think he's lying initially even when he's going out and he really had all intentions to go to the party? Like, where Is it a true? L. Or is it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Is it a true.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

What I mean is, if you had said to me, I'm going with Nick, and then I see on social media becomes unintentional. Right. I wouldn't think, oh, my God, you lied to me. I wouldn't think that I'd be like, oh, something happened. Nick probably couldn't turn up. And then you bumped into so and so. Like, I wouldn't even think twice that you were trying to lie or trying to hide something. Now the question is, did he lie when he came back? And does she feel like he's hiding something? Because then the real question is, why does she feel that in the first place? It's the. Not really the teething, but it's. Don't take just this one issue. Isolated. If you feel like, well, hang on a minute. He's lying. Are you being oversensitive? Are you being paranoid? Or is there actually something to it? Find out. Did he, I guess, speak to him about it? Did he initially lied? How did that situation come about? Because if I was in his shoes and I know my relationship with you, and I know my situation, and I had told you I was going somewhere, and then all of a sudden, something completely different change. I wouldn't even think for second to call you up and be like, babe, hey, I'm just letting you know this has changed. No, I'd be like, oh, I'll tell you the story when I get home.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

You'd be like, lisa, how the hell did you. I saw you on Facebook doing this party. I thought, you're going to hang out with your sister. I'll be like, oh, my God, you never guess what happened. So I think it's, why are you feeling like that in the first place? And then how do they handle it when they get back? And is there suspicion? Like, why are you suspicious?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. 100. I just. I'm so with you. It feels like we're at the tip of a. A very big iceberg. Like, there are things going on that we would need a lot more detail, but there is a relationship out there where you just wouldn't think twice. Like, if you went out, said you were going out with your sister or whatever, and then I see on social media that you're, like, at a party and like, every ex boyfriend you've ever had, we're all there, then I would. And then you die in a car accident on the way home. Right, Right. But, like, rock with me for a second. And so I never get to ask.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

You made it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I wouldn't think about it.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Right. I'd be like, interesting.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I. It wouldn't be the beginning of, like, me going in and, like, hiring a private detective to find out. Like, but movies start that way, right? Where it's like that one little change in the story unravels this whole thing. And the person had, like, the second life. And I. Maybe that's true, but, like, I would never know because you don't make me feel like that to your point. So I have so much trust over years that has been earned, and so much communication and so much openness in the relationship and always telling each other the truth, even when it, like, sucks. And I know if I just lied, like, about this one little thing, I could just avoid an argument, right? But, like, we don't do that. And so we've had a thousand conversations of varying degrees of intensity where it's like, oh, with a very small white lie, this goes away. And not doing it right. And so. And because of that, always choosing the hard thing. The hard thing. The hard thing. You've told this story a thousand times about the top, where you were like, do I look good in this? And I was like, it's okay. And like, in that moment, I could have just been like, oh, my God, it's amazing. But then when I really compliment you forever, you're gonna wonder because I'm just always saying nice things. Right? And you never. You. Over time, you will not get the sense you're getting the truth from me. So now my real compliments will blend in with my fake compliments, and you'll never know which is which. So always doing the hard thing in a relationship pays off, right? Because I do not show everyone in my life that courtesy. It's too much of a fucking headache. But with you, 100.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

But you have to know that I'm gonna reciprocate your honesty. Because if every time you're honest, I flew off the handle.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes. So that's slightly different than reciprocating my honesty, which is also important, but that you're gonna process through it. You're gonna work through it. You're not gonna punish me for being honest.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Honest.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Specifically in the example of the shirt. Right. So in that. The hard part wasn't that you were annoyed with me for being honest. The hard part was that it upset you. Because now we're out and about, and you can't do anything to change the shirt. If, you know, we had had that conversation before we left, like, maybe it still would have stung, but you could address it.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

So basically, for people who haven't heard the story, just to give a quick recap, I wore a shirt. We went on a date night. I asked him what he thought, and he went. That was the honesty part of yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I. Yeah. What? Didn't do it quite like that, but yeah.

[Grainger University Maintenance Narrator]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah. I've got some good questions. So this one's from Dolly Coroa. Enjoy enjoying this. Thank you for taking the time to answer our question. How do you balance a relationship where one is passionate and one is more emotioned and thinks with their heart, while the other is more about logic and theory? There is love and respect, but I. It can get frustrating. Well, I'm curious which one, Dolly, you are.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's not going to change your answer though, right?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

No, I guess not.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So this. This is where I'll say that there are certain things in your relationship where it is wildly advantageous to have opposites. And there are things in your life where you want to be very, very close.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Close.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So you and I, if relationships with politics, you and I are both moderates. So we're both towards the center of what we'll call very masculine and very feminine energy. Or since I hate the word energy, stereotypical traits. Right. So I'm very in touch with my feminine side. Like, emotions don't scare me. I'm very able to process them. I have strong emotions. And you're also very able to process through things logically. Now, those are just stereotypes, right? There's, I'm sure, millions and millions and millions of men and women that are equally like that. Right. That would bust all stereotypes, but just to make it easy to communicate, because I can feel the hate mail coming already like that. We're both much closer to the middle now. That has served us very, very well. But the truth is that there are certain things that I see one way and process, like in a very cut and dry way. And there are things that you much more emotive about. It hits you, like, emotionally. You get caught up in the emotion of something. So we. We have enough distance where we can be beneficial to each other. So taking a business context, I think I've really helped you, like, be strategic about something. Like, what is the. What's the ultimate goal here? So rather than listening to the emotion or giving into it or, Or. Or engaging in that discussion in an emotional fashion. And so rather than you being annoyed or frustrated by that, like, you've latched onto that and said, I want that. I want you to do that. So it comes down to in the relationship, when does it serve you to be one way? When does it serve you to be the other? And making sure that you have some of push, pull is what I want to say. Right. Where you guys are leveraging Each other's skills at the appropriate time, push pull may seem somewhat adversarial. So coming up with ahead of time how you want to engage in something if you want, like if there are certain things that need to be processed through in an emotional fashion, which by the way, those are very real and if you're not doing those, there's going to be long term consequences that the person feeling bottled up and like they're not ever able to really say what's on the mind. And that goes for the hyper rational person as well, whomever it is in the relationship. So yeah, I think that, that, that becomes, it can be good. But if you guys aren't moderate and you're at hyper ends of the spectrum, it also can be very, very frustrating.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yes. I think it's important though to kind of go back to what you were saying in a previous question is respecting each other. Right. Because one person processes things in a logical manner doesn't mean that that's better or worse. And person that processes in a, you know, passionate manner, I just think matters when if those ways are getting in the way of the results, I'm gonna call bullshit.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Why? Because if you've got somebody that flies off the handle, it's. Passion is a nice word. But if they like are a loose fucking cannon, right? And everything you say is received emotionally or vice versa, like you're trying to tell somebody how something makes you, you feel, which is very real, and the other person pushes back and goes, but that doesn't make any sense. It, it will be an absolute nightmare.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

But I think it's important. Sure. And I agree. But I think it's important that if somebody flies off the handle, you can't just go, well, hey, your way is wrong. Right? It's like, okay, you feel passionate about it. I respect that. But here's how I perceive it. When you fly off the handle. So I'm not saying for you not to be passionate, I'm not saying for you not to believe in it, but this is what, how it makes me feel when you do. You, you're so over the top. And so how do we come to a happy medium? Maybe they're external, like they have to process externally. Right? Okay, so when you process externally and you fly off the handle makes me feel like this. But I don't want you to have to shut down because that may be what the other person's hearing. Oh, you don't want me to have passion? You don't want me to feel anything like, no, that's not what I'm saying, But what we should do is this. When you get passionate about something, you act this way, and it makes me feel like this. So instead, why don't you. You. When you're in that passionate moment, let's take time apart. Because sometimes you say things that upset me. So let's take time apart. Let's maybe take a few hours. Let's come together. I really want to hear how you feel. I really do want to understand how you feel. I just can't hear you when you're at this level. So, okay, what do we do? Let's separate this, right? Because that's how we are sometimes. Sometimes for me, I get very emotional and I. I can't. I recognize, I can't process my thoughts clearly in that moment. Moment. So it doesn't mean that I'm not passionate and that if you told me stop thinking like that, that made me feel like I have to be closed. It's like, I do want to express how I feel. I just can't talk about it right now. So give me an hour. Let's come back, I'll tell you exactly how I feel. I'll be able to be much more articulate about how I feel. And now you may come into it with, like you do, especially if it's business. If I'm feeling passionate about something, you come in with logic and you'd be like, but what are the steps you need to take to get what you want? And so you'll be the logic person. I just know I can't hear you in the. That second. So if one person's very passionate and the other person's very logical, what are the things you can put in place where you can actually hear each other? So I don't think it's about pushing one side down or the other. It's just about figuring out the tactics and how you can hear each other in that moment.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Respect.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

So for me, it is, babe, I need time apart. Because you'll be like, let's fix this. Let's figure it out now. Like, let's solve the issue. And I'm like, I can't. My emotions are way too heightened right now. So I can't. I can't hear you. And so I'll recognize that about myself as well, right? That when I'm at this heightened passion, emotion, whatever you say, I am not going to hear. I'm going to push back on everything you say. I'm not going to be able to better myself. So let's spend time apart. Let Me, calm down, we'll get back together, and then I can hear the logic and the advice you give me. And I'm very welcoming to that in that moment, but I'm not initially.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Love it. There are tactics that will bridge the gap. I respect that.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

That's quite a long answer.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So that's great, though. So technically we have.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah, yeah. Do you want to answer one more?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Sure. We can give it like a fast one.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

All right, let's see. So this is from Eric Scott Williams. Is it possible to be with someone who doesn't believe in forgiveness? I know. And then in brackets, he put belief. You can never truly let something go. There will always be a little resentment forever.

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, you cannot be. All right, everybody have a very. The funny thing. I'm serious. There's no discussion. I mean, you can elaborate on it, but that is absolute madness. It's a sign of mental illness. Do not engage. Turn and run in the opposite direction. 100%. You want to talk about here is the only thing that destroys relationships. Not letting go of shit, like, 100%. So the first metaphor that made sense to me, me, when I was thinking about, like, what happens in relationships is dust settling. So it's never anything big. There's. It's not like a dust bomb goes off in your house, but if you leave things be for a year, there's going to be thick dust on everything. So you have to clean things off. Like, it. It has to go through that process. And if people don't ever do, and the wiping down is the forgiveness of. Of actually letting go. Truly, Truly. And I'm not kidding, and I don't say this derisively. That's mental dysfunction. So the inability to let something go is an obsessive thought pattern. Legitimately go seek help. Like, you need to get out of that. That is. That will destroy their own life. Forget about having a relationship. If you obsessively, like, grab onto something and don't let it go, and I will. Dollars to donuts, there's a name for that, which I actually don't know, but 100%, that is mental dysfunction. I would not engage with somebody that was in that place. Maybe try to help them get through it, but, like, I'm just not. I would not get into a relationship with somebody that was in that position. If you woke up tomorrow and you had it, yes, sure. Like, we would process it together. I'm not just going to ditch you, but, like, if all things being equal and I'm not already in a relationship ship, absolutely no way.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah. When I was younger, it. I never thought of it like that. It's like, yeah, you forgive and you don't really. You kind of hold on to it and you have it in the back of your mind. Right. And then you. That person does it again or that person does it again. It starts building up again, and then you blurst out. Yeah. It's like, last time, I thought we settled to that. Like, I thought that was, like, a solved issue. It never solves anything. Like, you have to actually let it go. And so me and you, when we either apologize for something or if I've done something to upset you, if you've done something to upset me, once it's settled, it's like, you don't ever bring this up again. Like, if it really has been resolved in your mind and in his. The second you bring it up again, the second it's like, oh, my God, like, now it's. How long has that been bugging her for? And then you think about all the things that they've been thinking about over, you know, the last week or month where it's, like, actually wound you up and you didn't know about it, and that's terrible.

[Tom Bilyeu]

If it is on your mind, though, I will say reconnect and say, I need your help letting this go. Right. So. And if that were true for one of us, it isn't reopening it so I can beat you up because that violates the code. Right. It's. Hey, I'm as surprised as anybody here. I'm. I'm. I'm having a really hard time letting this go. And so there may be something that I don't, like, have conscious awareness of yet that's making like that I haven't said that I need to say in order to get past this. So if we can just talk about it. But we would approach it literally. I was doing an impression of myself of exactly how I would do it. Where you can feel like me trying to back. Oh, God. Like, I'm not trying to drag you down or, like, make you feel bad. Just. I don't know why this is on my mind, but it's really still on my mind. And I know if I. If I brought it up like that, where it's like, I'm really not trying to upset you or be hurtful. These are all the literal things I would do, by the way, with, like, the. The gentle touching and stuff. I know you would meet it with compassion.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And you would help me get through it.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And that's the thing, like, do you want to get over it? Because that's important. Going back to what you were saying, it's like, if I really do want to get over this one thing, but I just can't forgive you, it's like, then help me. How do we come together as a team? Because that's the thing. When you're in a partnership, we just see every. Every problem. Whether it's something that I can't get over, whether it's something that's bothering you, it's a joint effort. It's not like, all right, you go figure it out, then you come back to me, and then we'll. We'll get. We'll get back to being okay. No, it's like, oh, you can't get over this. How do we do it as a team? It makes you just feel like you've got a teammate, right? And that's what we're always like. Like, I just feel if I'm being petty, even if I'm. I can't let go of something, even if this is bothering me, it's. I'm not doing it alone, but I have to articulate that to you, and I have to be honest about how petty I'm being. So it's like I'm. Baby, I'm feeling like you said, I can't get over this. I don't know why. It really bothers me. Like, actually just stung when you said that. And so it triggered this and made me remember that time. I just can't get over, like, why? And so we'll talk about it versus. Is it now something I have to deal with? You know, Here she goes again. She can't forgive something. How many times do we have to, you know, talk about it? She can't let go. No. It's a problem. Together.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Word. All right. Love it. It's great. Guys. Thank you so much for joining us on this Labor Day edition of Relationship Theory. If it added value, please do share it. That's how we grow this community. Yeah. And that's it. I hope you guys are having an amazing weekend with your family and friends. Go out, enjoy yourselves. Love one another. All right, guys, until. This is a weekly show, by the way, so if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to itunes, go to stitcher rate, and review us. That helps us build this community, and that is what we are all about, right now building this community as big as we can to help as many people as we can can deliver as much value as possible. And you guys rating and reviewing really helps with that. Alright guys, thank you again so much. And until next time my friends, be legendary. Take care.

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