Recession Alert: Secrets to Preparing & Getting Rich in a Crash! | Dean Graziosi (Replay)

Summary

Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu

Episode Title: Recession Alert: Secrets to Preparing & Getting Rich in a Crash! (Replay)
Guest: Dean Graziosi
Date: August 19, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode of Impact Theory features Tom Bilyeu in conversation with entrepreneur, author, and self-education advocate Dean Graziosi. Against a backdrop of economic uncertainty and a looming (or ongoing) recession, Tom and Dean discuss what it takes not just to survive, but to thrive during economic downturns. They examine the mindsets and tactical actions enabling people to turn crisis into opportunity, focusing heavily on personal growth, the booming self-education industry, and creating wealth by packaging and sharing one’s unique experiences and expertise.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Recession Mindset: Ski or Freeze?

• Preparation & Anticipation vs. Reaction
  • Dean underscores the value of anticipating economic cycles and preparing accordingly, borrowing from Wayne Gretzky: “Most people skate to where the puck is. I learned to skate to where the puck was going.” (02:09)
  • Drawing on Warren Buffett’s advice: in a recession, thrive by being in industries with high margins and low overhead—like selling information and expertise rather than physical goods. (03:00-04:00)
  • Quote: “In the winter, some people freeze and other people ski and snowboard.” — Tony Robbins, referenced by Tom (01:06)

The Self-Education Boom: Opportunity Amid Crisis

• Dean details the explosive growth of the “self-education” or “knowledge” industry—a $340 billion/year global business projected to hit $1 trillion by 2028. (03:50-04:21)
• Modern consumers seek specialized knowledge, not general education: “People don’t have time for general education anymore. They want specialized knowledge.” — Dean (04:25)

Navigating Fear and Self-Doubt

• Dean is candid about his own ongoing struggles with imposter syndrome and self-doubt, emphasizing that even the successful are plagued with inner voices of doubt.

• The media amplifies anxiety: “Whatever inner self-doubt we have, it magnifies it.” (06:50)

• Personal anchor points for resilience:

  • Never wanting to go back to childhood poverty
  • Providing choices for his children, without entitlement
  • Maintaining control over his own life and time (07:10-08:40)

  “I must work on me to continue to show up to be a man that deserves a woman like that... A bad day, a bad week, an economic winter, things going wrong on the outside. I can’t just sit on my hands and hope somebody’s coming to save me.” — Dean (09:13)

Fight, Flight, or Freeze: Getting Unstuck

• Tom discusses the psychology of stress and “freezing”—how paralyzing fear causes inaction. (10:54)

• Dean shares a deeply personal experience of divorce and crippling anxiety, relating it to economic anxiety: the feeling of being shut off from a hopeful, “compelling future”. (12:43-15:20)

• Recovery tool: Write down every specific source of fear/anxiety, dig deep for the root cause, and focus on solving/transforming the single biggest lever (“the one thing”) to neutralize multiple anxieties. Example: Becoming dear friends with his ex-wife for the well-being of his children checked off a whole list of worries. (16:00-20:45)

  “I started thinking: is there one thing I can go so deep on, get so good at... that could solve lots of problems? My ship was in a safe harbor, but the only way to my next level of life was through the storm.” — Dean (15:40)

Dark Energy: Harnessing the Pain

• Both Tom and Dean discuss using pain, fear of regression, and “dark energy” as a nitrous boost to get out of inertia when positive motivation isn’t enough. (25:29-31:00)
  • “Some people need to run away from their pain and some people run towards their pleasure… My hardest times, I’ll hit the nitrous button. And that is thinking of all the things that will go wrong if I don’t courageously move forward.” — Dean (27:02)
  • “I think that’s really fucking good. Because it’s true. Most people do not understand the power of what I call the dark energy.” — Tom (28:21)

Self-Narrative and Self-Awareness

• Dean emphasizes the critical importance of self-talk and recursive self-questioning to uncover the roots of anxiety or limiting beliefs:
  • Practice: When feeling anxious or blocked, stop and observe—ask “why do I feel this way?” deeply and repeatedly until the core belief/experience is revealed, then reframe it. (33:48-39:05)
  • Tom highlights the importance, but also the challenge, of developing self-awareness—the “trade off” between being oblivious (less anxious, less effective) and being self-aware (more anxious, more empowered). (39:05-41:20)

The Time to Thrive Challenge: Turning Knowledge into Wealth

• Dean and Tony Robbins are hosting a free 5-day “Time to Thrive Challenge” (starting August 2nd) to help people identify and package their unique expertise/experience into profitable information products or businesses. (42:26-49:19, 61:10-63:34)

  • Five days cover:
    • Day 1: Why this industry, why now, and why you
    • Day 2: Identifying what to teach/sell from your life experience
    • Subsequent days: Marketing, ethical selling through service, making it a real business

• Every day ends with an actionable challenge to build momentum.

• Notable guest: Matthew McConaughey will join the sessions.

  “Let’s make it so people feel guilty if they die someday without sharing their life experience.” — Dean (44:17)

The Modern Opportunity: Everyone Has Expertise Worth Selling

• Tom and Dean discuss how the technological barrier to starting an information business has vanished (YouTube, digital platforms), making it possible for nearly anyone to turn specific knowledge into income, even in niche subjects (“painting with wolves,” oil painting, hair extensions, etc.). (48:25-54:03, 59:09-61:10)
• The greatest value: Condensing years of experience and hard-won lessons for the benefit of others.
  • Dean: “What would it be worth to you right now if you could go back and spend a day with your 20-year-old self?”
  • Tom: “That question makes me want to cry... the thought of how much of my suffering I could have mitigated is crazy.” (54:03-54:46)

Action & Community

• The paramount importance of taking action—not just learning passively—and the benefits of joining challenges, masterminds, or workshops for accountability, social support, and real progress. (61:19-62:02)
• “If you leave the scene of learning without taking action, the momentum goes away.” — Tony Robbins, paraphrased by Dean (61:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |:-------------:|----------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:06 | Tom (via Tony Robbins) | "In the winter, some people freeze and other people ski and snowboard." | | 02:09 | Dean | "It’s preparation and anticipation rather than reaction... skate to where the puck is going." | | 03:50 | Dean | "The self-education industry... is about a $340 billion a year industry... heading towards a trillion dollars by 2028." | | 06:50 | Dean | "Whatever inner self doubt we have, it magnifies it." | | 09:13 | Dean | “I must work on me to continue to show up to be a man that deserves a woman like that... I can’t just sit on my hands and hope somebody’s coming to save me.” | | 15:40 | Dean | “Is there one thing I can go so deep on... that could solve lots of problems? My ship was in a safe harbor, but the only way to my next level of life was through the storm.” | | 27:02 | Dean | "My hardest times, I’ll hit the nitrous button... thinking of all the things that will go wrong if I don’t courageously move forward." | | 28:21 | Tom | "That's really fucking good. Because it's true. Most people do not understand the power of what I call the dark energy." | | 54:03 | Tom | “What would it be worth to you right now if you could go back and spend a day with your 20-year-old self?... That question makes me want to cry.” | | 61:19 | Dean | "If people take this, if you leave the scene of learning without taking an action, the momentum goes away." |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:58 — Tom’s introduction, setting the stakes: “economic winter is here… my goal is to ease your anxiety and teach you to thrive”
• 02:09 — Dean explains the mindset for thriving in recession: Preparation vs. Reaction
• 03:50 — The exponential growth of self-education (information) industry
• 06:50-09:13 — Dean’s approach to anxiety, mindset anchors, personal mission
• 12:43-20:45 — Dean’s deepest storm: divorce, panic attacks, and finding his “one thing” to resolve many anxieties
• 25:29-32:49 — Dark energy and the role of pain/fear as a motivator; how to restart when frozen
• 33:48-39:05 — Self narrative, recursive “why” process, and Dean’s personal journaling practice for emotional self-discovery
• 42:26-49:19, 61:10-63:34 — “Time to Thrive Challenge”: what it is, who it’s for, and why taking action is crucial
• 54:03-57:58 — The emotional value of sharing one’s experience and helping others avoid mistakes (“if only I could talk to my younger self”)
• 59:09-61:10 — Real-world examples: niche expertise and the democratization of teaching

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Tone and Style

The episode is honest, motivational, and deeply personal. Dean is practical yet vulnerable; Tom is sharp, direct, and empathetic. Key themes are resilience, embracing discomfort, the importance of preparation, and the transformative power of self-education and community. The conversation moves fluidly between high-level business strategy, raw personal experience, and actionable advice, keeping it simultaneously inspirational and actionable.

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For Listeners: Key Takeaways

• Preparation beats Reaction: Start thinking now about where your skills and experience could carry you in a recession.
• Self-education is the future: Specialized personal or professional knowledge is more valuable and in-demand than ever.
• Leverage your unique path: What you’ve learned (even—especially—through pain) can be packaged and monetized to help others.
• Mindset is everything: Resilience comes from knowing your personal “whys” and being willing to take action even when afraid.
• Harness both light and dark motivation: When optimism fails, let fear of regression propel you—just don’t live there.
• Journaling and self-questioning are powerful tools: Unpack anxiety by recursively asking why; transform insights into decisive action.
• Action disperses fear: Taking small concrete steps—especially with others—starts the momentum that breaks paralysis.
• Everyone has something to teach: The democratization of knowledge means there’s a viable niche for any skill or story.

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Next Steps

If you’re interested in learning more about building a knowledge-based business—or simply want to shift from economic worry to action—consider joining the free Time to Thrive Challenge described in the episode: thrive450.com.

Transcript

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[Tom Bilyeu]

Welcome to the Impact Theory Podcast. Today's episode is a little extra special as I sit down with a man that has greatly influenced my life, Dean Graziosi. As you may or may not know, economic winter is here and my goal is to get you the information you need to ease your anxiety around the recession and learn the skills and mindset you need to thrive in this time. Dean is taking you deep into his real life situation so you can take the nuggets you need to navigate these uncertain times. This is Impact Theory with Dean Graziosi. All right, Dean, you and I have about 60 minutes to deal with the fact that we're either headed into an economic winter or we are already there. I have a massive amount of paranoia around that and what that's going to be. I think 1% of people are going to thrive, but 99% of people are going to get just battered. They're really going to struggle. And there is a quote I hear you say a lot from Tony Robbins, which is in the winter, some people freeze and other people ski and snowboard. So my question is, what is the mindset that allows somebody to snowboard instead of freeze?

[Dean Graziosi]

I think to start, it's preparation and anticipation rather than reaction. Right? Wayne Gretzky. I love that quote. It's been overplayed, but it said, how is he so good at playing hockey? He said, most people skate to where the puck is. I learned to skate to where the puck was going. And I think if we anticipate and know, you know, so many people we both know have been in business for 15 years or less, they really don't understand it. So they're more scared of the unknown. And if you're a study of history, you can understand it's a cycle, it's happening and winter is here. I don't, I think winter is here. We just all haven't felt the effects yet. And when you go through a time like that, the reason Tony and I are working together and doing events and helping people is because there's some industries like you said, that are going to, they're going to be at the springtime, they're going to exponentially grow. And if you saw Warren Buffett in his yearly presentation, I don't know if you saw it probably four weeks ago, he said inflation is here and a recession is inevitable. And there's a couple of things you can do to thrive during a recession, during inflation. And he said one of them, the most important thing is be a part of, of an industry or start a business that has high margins. So the reason Tony and I are sharing so much and I'm so passionate about this because I've been in this industry for 25 years is how cool would it be to have a business that you don't need to inventory, you don't need to ship it, you don't have to worry about supply chain. It's probably one of the most valuable assets you have. Valuable that you own it and other people want it. You could sell it over and over again. You have to with a limited supply. I know that's what I'm saying. And what it is is selling information, it's selling your experience. It's what Tony's been doing for 40 years, I've been doing for 25. You think about it, how much has information or learning from other people impacted you in your life? I know what, I know what study you are. Yeah. And it's such a valuable asset. And it's not just us anymore. Right. Four years ago, the industry, and let's call it the self education industry, the influencer industry, the upscale industry, selling knowledge four years ago was about $100 million a day industry a day. A day. Right now it's a billion a day. It's about 340 billion dollar a year industry. And I just read this weekend it's heading towards a trillion dollars by 2028.

[Tom Bilyeu]

A day or a year?

[Dean Graziosi]

A year. The trillion will be a year. Right now it's at a billion a day, about $340 billion a year. And why that is is I don't think people have time for general education anymore. They want specialized knowledge. So instead of going back to school instead of trying to learn on their own, they're saying, hey, who's already been there? Tom already built a business. Look what he did with Quest. What will Tom share with me and how can I pay Tom to extract that? Or if, I mean, we've helped people in 4,500 different niches. Whether it's going through a divorce, going vegan, doing yoga better, or finding self love again, or healing through trauma, Somebody has been through that experience and the world is seeing that they can find a way to unlock it, share it, impact others and create success. And I think in a time of recession, whether it's the self education industry, but it's definitely a time you must investigate because it is scary. I was in business in 09 when the world shifted. I was in business in 07.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's a kind way of saying it.

[Dean Graziosi]

When the world shifted. I mean, and it was brutal for a lot of people. And I know that sounds almost insensitive to say some people starve and some people ski, but I think the foundation is we must get our mindset right. We must prepare and say, it's coming. You can't make it worse than it is and you can't make it better than it is. We must face the reality it's coming. And like Winston Churchill said, those that don't understand the past are bound to repeat it. So learn about it, what's happening, prepare emotionally to be more of that. I feel like I'm saying too many silly things, but they're sticking my head is be more of the thermostat of life rather than the thermometer. Address it. But then it's time to investigate and say, where can I sell something that does, that has higher margins? How can I impact others and how can I, you know, thrive in this shifting world? And I think that's why we're kind of pounding the pavement right now, because it's a time for everybody to either start a self education industry, bolt it onto your current business, or at least explore and see if it's something for you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I want to go back to the mindset because so I know what you guys are doing with the five day challenge. Free time to thrive challenge. Gonna be incredible. I know you guys do amazing stuff, but most people won't even show up because the way that they think about the world is going to lock them up in fear. And as somebody who I know you have been successful, but you've also been through struggles. So in the times where you struggled, what was happening, that sort of Blocked you up. Was it fear? Was it the self narrative, whatever? And then what did you do to finally break out of that, to start getting mental?

[Dean Graziosi]

Really great question. You know, to this day I've been reflecting on this a lot lately because I'm 53 years old and I still have that inner self doubt. I still have that voice that says, hey, we're not going to make this. People are going to figure out you're not that smart. How the hell did you get where you are right now? And that voice has been screaming at me for 50 years or 45 years, but it's always wrong. And here's what I do know is when you watch the news right now, it's so horrific you can't watch whatever channel you're on. Liberal, conservative, down the middle, you're moderate, doesn't matter what you watch, it's horrific news. We go from a pandemic to inflation and potential recession and from crypto and stock markets crashing. And what I think is whatever inner self doubt we have, it magnifies it. And we just have to realize that it does. I find myself even going down a path of worrying more than I have. Even though I feel financially set and everything can, you know, whatever happens to the outside world, I think I'm fine. And we just have to identify that we've already been through courageous times, or I should say we've already been courageous in scary times. We've already found courage when we didn't know we had it. And for me, if I share what's gotten me through it, it's just a little exercise on. I go through a process of why the hell am I doing, what am I do? I'm doing. And I have three reasons that I do it. And I think we all have to find that next level reason because things do get hard and the outside world can be crazy and your friends are going to start freaking out. And to have that ability to thrive, we must go inside and get out of our head and get into our heart. For me, that little transition is three things. I never want to go backwards. I didn't like being broke as a kid. I didn't like my mom working three jobs to make nothing and coming home late. So I feel like I got this innate feeling of I don't want to go back to that life. Number two is I want my kids to have choices. I'm blessed that my kids are here with me today. Last time I was here four years ago, my son came. Now both my kids are 15 and 13 now. I don't want entitled children, but I want them to have choices. And then the last thing is I want to be in control of my life. And these are mine, right? My parents were married nine times when I was a kid. By the time I was 20, I moved 20 times by the time I was 20 years old. So new step parents, new step grandparents, new house, new school, new bike. And all of it always was taken away with the next divorce. So, again, that's a little digging into my own life. But I never want anybody to be in control of my life. I never want to be left behind. I don't want to skate to where the puck used to be because that means maybe I can't take my kids with me when I do a trip like this. I take my kids to school every day of my life. I pick them up every day they have school. I coach little league. I'm there for softball, those things. I would rather die than not be available for that. We get to chat a lot with our. With our wives. My wife's name is Lisa, too. I love her more than anything. She's my favorite human in the whole world. And if I lose control, maybe I can't have those times with her and have date nights and work on being a better man. I messed up in my last relationship. I'm not messing this one up. And I want to continue to be a better man. And I have to work on me to continue to show up to be a man that deserves a woman like that. So when I think of that, I get emotional right now, because when I think about that, Tom having a bad day, a bad week, an economic winter, things going wrong on the outside. I can't just sit on my hands and hope somebody's coming to save me, hope that things will get better. I don't have that option because I want to be the man for my wife. I want to be that father, and I want to be the friend that I am and the leader with my team. So I must find a new mindset. I must be courageous. I must jump out of the plane and grow wings on the way down. But not just courageous. The reason, you know, I started today talking about that industry. I don't care what industry it is or what people do. Tony and I want to show people what we've been doing for 60 years. But more than that, I want people to know, not sit on their hands to say, hey, why am I here? Why do I want another level? What, again? For me not going backwards. My kids and having control. I chew Through a brick wall. I'll read every book possible. I'll talk to amazing people like you and other friends. I'll get in masterminds, I'll get in workshops. I'll read because I can't let that control go away.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What's interesting to me. So coming at it from a psychology perspective, people talk a lot about fight or flight, right? So you're coming into the economic winner, we're in the economic winter, and your two opt are to fight or to run away. But the reality is it's actually fight, flight or freeze. And the fact that people can, through their own self narrative what they focus on, what they tell themselves, they can actually get themselves to the point where they're freezing. And I can find myself there sometimes when there's so much going on in my business. I have so many things, I don't even want to look at my text messages and I can feel like my hand doesn't even want to pick up my phone. And I'm like, wow. Like there's really something at the motor cortex of your brain level that has, from back when we were lizards, that it will actually stop you from moving. And so that idea of sitting on your hands, there's a reason that's become the phrase that people can actually get to the point where they can't get movement going. Right. And so the thing that I've always considered myself to be good at is generating momentum, like the ability to get something started. And it's way harder than people think. But to even take that first step. Sometimes when we're in the middle of something, that's really difficult. It requires people to get a hold of what they allow themselves to think and repeat. And I know you went through a phase when you're going through your divorce. You were having flashbacks to what it was like for you as a kid. You didn't want your kids going through the same thing. And so you start having panic attacks and just really becomes this like, brutal period of your life. I know the punchline because I know what you did to get out of that, but do you remember? Okay, I'm having this just overwhelming sense of anxiety. How did you begin to unwind that psychologically so you could move forward?

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah, really great question. And I love the fact that we know each other and can share that because the best interviews come when you speak from the heart. And I appreciate that you always ask the best questions. When I think back when you're in the middle of it. There was someone who described it to me this way. When you're going through an anxious period, a nervous period, sitting on your hands or freezing, feel those emotions. I think everybody gets them. Like you said, goes all the way back to the lizard brain. Somebody explained it. This time when things are going good, we can peek out of like a submarine or peek our head out of their day to day and we can look forward to our compelling future and go, oh my God, it's right there. I see it. It's like a lighthouse. I see the lighthouse. We're on track. You go back down and you do the work right. It's like that's what compel. I could see it. Somebody said to me once, when you're in an anxious space, when you're worrying, when that lizard brain comes, someone shuts the hatch and you can't lift up to see that compelling future anymore. All you're seeing is what's right and what's right in front of you and what could go wrong. Now I never really had that in my business life and I could never understand why people didn't take that initiative, why didn't create a compelling future. I always said to myself, people are afraid to start the business or scale the business, but wouldn't they be more afraid to be at the end of their life and see the man or woman they could have been? So that would always drive me in business and say, yes, I'm scared, but I'm moving forward anyway. Yes, I'm scared of this recession, but I'm moving forward anyway. I'm going to investigate, I'm going to move and then God, the universe, whatever you believe in gives you a lesson and shows you another level of empathy and compassion. My previous wife and I decided to divorce. We had tried to make it work for about five years and it was officially over and. And someone closed the hatch on me. And for the first time in my life I wasn't anxious. I was having anxiety attacks, just as you said. I was popping a Xanax twice a week. I don't even take aspirin, I don't even take Tylenol. I drink a glass of wine three days a week to try to calm down. Because again, repeating what you said, I started thinking about the stress I went through at a young age and said, wow, I'm just repeating it. I'm going to put these kids in that place. I'm going to be fragmented from them. I won't be this connected father that I had a desire to do. And what changed that was starting to think about just what I said earlier. Who do I want to be at the end of my life? Do I want to be someone where my kids again? I'm not an advocate of divorce, but do I want my kids at the end of their lives to see a father and mother who were friends? They never held hands, they didn't have connection. They slept in two separate rooms. Somebody said to me, and I think it was Tony said, what if your daughter ended up in the same relationship you're in?

[Tom Bilyeu]

How would that feel is you just came to chills.

[Dean Graziosi]

And when he said that, it changed. I left Florida, I flew home, had that conversation and we did it. But as we separated, I'm. You asked the question and if I'm going too deep, reel me in. But I moved into another house. And we were amicable and no ugliness at all. But I moved into a house. My kids came over the first weekend and they left. And I never shared this publicly, ever. I looked over and my kids shoes were at the front door, but they weren't there. And there was no noise and it was quiet. And I had the first panic attack of my life. Something just triggered me and I couldn't be in the house without noise. I had had to have a radio playing in every single room. I had to have TVs on. It was the weirdest thing, Tom. Like I felt like I got to 47 years old and I made it and. And something just snapped and it was over. And when you go through those periods, you don't know if you can come back. You don't know because the lid is shut. You can't see your compelling future of being in love and being happy. So the thing that I did in that moment was I started thinking about a future, trying to get a compelling future. But most of all, and this is what I did. And if it can help you in today's shift, especially where things are going with the economy and we have friends that are losing lots of money and things like that is I started thinking about, yes, it is what it is, but how can I find the thing that's actually causing the angst in me? Right? It's not necessarily that we're going through a recession and not necessarily that I'm going through a divorce. And I kept digging, why has this divorce affecting me? And I got all the way down and I made a list of all the things that were bugging me. One was Sunday meetings with my kids. I had them since they were three years old. Every other Sunday. I can't have that meeting. I used to pick them up from school. I travel a lot for business at the time. What if I come back and I don't get my kids that week and I go two weeks or three weeks without seeing my kids? And what if their mom talks bad about me behind my back? And what if I can never meet anybody? They'll love my kids. Like, like I love them, right? And I start when you're in that place. All. At least for me. All I could think about, Tom, was all the things that happened to me as a child or all the things that could go wrong with them. And then luckily, through focusing on a bigger future, that my kids deserved more. I started to think, what is the one thing? Is there one thing that I could do and do really well that could solve lots of problems? And if this is not making sense or not landing, I'm sorry, but I really want you to hear me. I started thinking, how can. Is there one thing I can go so deep on, get so good at, go deeper on, get more education, be the best in the world at this one thing? Is there one thing I could do? Because in my businesses I got really good at marketing. And my marketing being so good at marketing, Tom would cover that sometimes I wasn't the best operator, sometimes I'd hire the wrong people, sometimes I'd come up with a campaign that was kind of. But my marketing was so good that my businesses kept growing. So I converted that into this world. Even in a panicky state, I'm like, is there one thing I can do? And I wrote down all the things that were bugging me. And I'd suggest as we go into this recession, if you get into that place, write down all the things that are that. That are causing you angst, causing you worry, are afraid to go broke or afraid to let people down, afraid not to take care of your family or all the things that your brain thinks of. So I wrote down all these. My kids not with them, stressed about them, all this stuff, not going to be with them. Travel vacations, summer vacations were a big deal. Summer vacations. And I kept thinking, what's one thing? No, that's 10 things. What's one thing? What's one thing? And I came up with it. And the day I came up with it, I felt like. Felt like my ship was in a safe harbor. And other people may have used this analogy, but this is the way I felt. My ship was in a safe harbor. It was okay. But the only way to my next level of life was through the storm with 10 foot waves and A tornado. And I could see it out there. And every time I went to there, I'd put the front of the boat into the storm and I'd go, it's good enough here. I'll just sleep in the guest house and I'll be a great dad. And I, no, I can't. The day I realized this one thing, I'm like, time to put the ship in the storm. The next level of me lives on the other side. And that one thing for me was to be dear friends with my ex wife. I just started thinking, if I'm dear friends, she's never going to talk crap about me. If I'm dear friends with her, she'll support me. If I'm dear friends with her, then I travel and it's not my time, she'll let me see him. And everything on my list got checked off by that. And then I worked on me. I got a counselor, I worked on me. I became an active listener. I didn't. No matter. Even if things bugged me, I replaced God. I haven't talked about this in five years. Four years. I replaced anger or envy or being upset sometimes divorce and money. I replaced all of it with compassion. I said, every time you feel that feeling of like, take a breath and go through a compassionate lens because this woman's going to be your friend. And everything I did, Tom, I got better at being a friend. I read the right books. I didn't listen to a bunch of friends say, why would you give her that? And why? None of that mattered. I had one focus, make sure my kids were not fragmented and I could feel safe around them. And that's what I did. And that one thing solved all those problems. To this day, my ex is a friend also. It gave me the opportunity to be so relieved that I got to focus on being a better man to attract the kind of woman I wanted in my life. You know, everybody sees a great relationship. Tom, I've been around you and Lisa. You have so much mutual respect. You give so much to each other. All the things that are the invisible are why the visible is so great with U2.

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[Dean Graziosi]

And I've always wanted that. I didn't know it was possible. My parents were married nine times. I thought marriages were throwaway, right? But during this transition, during me going through the storm, I worked on being a better version of me. I wrote down the kind of woman I wanted in my life that would love my kids, that would be my dearest friend, that I would only focus on her, that transparency, honesty, trust and all the things that were unacceptable. And because I went through that storm, because I worked on becoming a better man, I got to attract my. My Lisa. And we're five years in. And it's not an Instagram love. She's the. She's the greatest human being in my life. I love her to death. And none of that would have happened, right? And I know you guys know this. If you follow this guy, he under. Tom knows a depth of personal development more than, maybe more than anyone you've ever watched. I watched four of your interviews in the last week and I was just blown away at all of them. And I mean that. So you've probably heard some of this before, but maybe you needed to hear it again today. That going through that storm, I know you've heard your next level of life lives on the other side of the thing you fear the most. All the things that are kind of cliche. My next level was I was in that storm with the anxiety and stress and popping his Xanax like, oh my God, I'm not going to make it. I have no compelling future. The hatch is shut. And literally, Tom, I'm not exaggerating, there was one day, it felt like the ship just came out on the other side and I was in the bay I was supposed to be in. It went away, it was gone. I got to work on me. I attracted my wife, Lisa. We fell in love, we have a two year old, she's pregnant right now. But I had to go through that. So in retrospect, if you're facing a storm, what if on the other side of that Storm was the man or woman you're designed to be. Wouldn't it be worth that storm? On the other side of a recession, on the other side of, of a shift, the people that are going to freeze are going to hope the outside world saves them. And if you can find the courage, if you can find the inspiration, the motivation, whatever it is, whatever you have to do, the leverage to move forward, to go into that ship, to find out where the puck is going, to investigate new areas, to play scared. What if this shift in the world was designed for you? As Tony always says, life is happening for you, not to you. What if the other side of that was the next level of your business or the start of something new? And that's some of the reasons we do what we do is try to innovate and spark that. But mostly it's like, how do we get through this and find who we're supposed to be?

[Tom Bilyeu]

That is the question that I want to now go deeper on. Because when you're facing the storm, it is a for real storm is brutally difficult to get through. Like if I even think about the psychological principle hiding behind the fact that you had to have radios on in the house and all of that, I remember my wife telling me that her big fear was that when her parents went through a divorce she was like 8 and she was cognizant enough to be like, my dad sits in a house that's quiet and he's all alone. I remember thinking, wow, that's like really heavy for like an 8 year old to grasp. But the psychological principle of like needing that noise, like there's a deep feeling thing going on in your brain that like you had to find a way to manage to navigate. So I have been in storms like that. When I'm in them, I'm always saying to myself, I think it's Churchill to somebody who's coming up multiple times here that if you're going through hell, keep going. Yeah, but that's really hard. Man. I had the chills just knowing. I was going to say that's really hard because it's really hard. And what I want to know is what are some of the tools? I've heard you talk about self narrative before. I've heard you talk about future casting. Like what are the things that people can learn to do that allow them when the hatch is closed to either open that hatch or sit for a little bit.

[Dean Graziosi]

Exactly, yeah. You know, rather than me saying what I think is the healthiest answer, I'm just going to say the answer that comes to me. I'd love to say that I got through a lot of those by future casting, by projecting a bigger future. Do it through harmony, through peace, not torture yourself. I'd love to say, but sometimes when the storm's really bad, I have to look backwards. And I kind of put myself through probably hell of going back to who I used to be or much worse. Because sometimes when you build something big, it's. There's a lot that can tip, right? So I will look back and feel the emotions of how things used to be. I know I do that. And this is not a practice. I don't sit down and meditate and say, oh, my God, let me feel these emotions of a child. They're just there. And if I let them come out, I feel them. And I get to where I am. Disturbed, scared, worried about just seeing how things go. And it pushes me forward. It's almost like if you had a car with nitrous and you don't use it all the time. We all need to figure out what is the nitrous button, right? A nitrous for those not in cars. You know, I remember when you were young, it had nitrous button. It can make a car go really fast, really quick. If you hit the nitrous button all the time, car burns out, doesn't work. But if you save that nitrous button, if you save it when you're the scaredest, when you're saving it when you need to get through something really hard. I never shared this in that way before, but that's for me, my hardest times, I'll go into a place of the fear of going backwards, the fear of what could go wrong. And that is so scary to me that I won't be in control of my time. Someone else might tell me how to live my life. What if I had to? I mean, my brain used to go back to, what if I had to go to work for somebody? I've never worked for anybody in my entire life. At 17, I started cutting firewood. Like, I've never worked for anybody in my life. I think of things like, what if you had to get a job? What if they told you you couldn't pick up your kids from school? You might be watching and say, dean, don't abuse yourself like that. But that's. I need that. Some people need to run away from their pain and some people run towards their pleasure. Obvious, obvious things in life, right? Me, I need to hit the. I will hit the nitrous button. And that is Thinking of all the things that will go wrong if I don't courageously move forward, when sometimes I don't have an answer where I'm not sure where it's going, but I know if I stand there. More cliches. When you stand, it's so many. They keep popping in my head. I got to stop it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But cliches become cliches for a reason.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah, but there's never a time you could just stand. You can only sit on your hands or freeze for enough time and then you start sliding backwards and you know that to be true. And I think about those things. I'm like, I can't just wait. I'm scared to death, but I'm going anyway. And that's. It's probably not the greatest answer, but that's me. That's my.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think that's really fucking good. The reason that I think that it's good is because it's true. And I think that most people do not understand the power of what I call the dark energy. So you've got. I want to hear more towards the beautiful things. Right. So 80% of the time if I'm struggling, I think about the things I want to do and create the people I want to help. Like all the good stuff in my life. But when I really need something, I go to the dark side.

[Dean Graziosi]

You just described it. Because I want to focus 100% of the time on we'll get through this and everybody will be better and I take care of my family. But when it doesn't work, I hit the nitrous button. And my nitrous button is that dark side. I love how you just described it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I think that it's so real and so many. Like even I wish I could remember the exact words you said, but you had like some apology, almost like, oh, this might not be the healthiest or whatever, but I really think that people underutilize that like that. So when I think about human emotion, I think evolution, the blind watchmaker. So I don't believe in a sort of conscious, engaged deity. There is obviously something that we don't know about. So trust me, I sit with humility totally before whatever is happening. But when I look at evolution, even if God, an all knowing being, used evolution to set everything in motion, like you still want to think about evolution and how that influences the way that we are. And so when I think about emotion through an evolutionary lens and I realize rage has a use, anger has a use, fear has a use, anxiety has a use, and every Time. Because I am an anxious person by nature. Every time I'm feeling anxious, I'm like, I don't ever want to feel this again. But I know that if it were completely removed from my life, I wouldn't have achieved what I've achieved. So anxiety is this double edged sword. It is the reason that I've had the kind of success that I've had. But then people also need to be very careful emulating my life because it has been this just wall of anxiety constantly moving me forward. Like I'm not gonna be prepared for this interview unless I do more, more, more research. Right. And so we're on the same page. Yeah. So it's like. But for me, even though sometimes it is admittedly very frustrating, cause I don't like the emotion, it's yielded some extraordinary results. And to get a healthy relationship with it, I have to appreciate it as much as do things to not spend too much of my time there because it can become very corrosive. But for people that either want to pretend that anger is bad or rage is bad, or there's no place for anxiety, whatever they are removing a massive amount of the tools that nature has given to them.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah, I mean momentum you said earlier, you said about helping people with momentum. Momentum is easy. Once the train has left the station. Right. Once you're going 30 miles an hour, it's much easier to go to 50. But it's train starting at zero, the energy to get that thing to go the first three feet so you couldn't run, you'd call the dark energy. I guess a simple analogy would be you couldn't run a train from California to New York on dark energy. You'd burn it out, the wheels would come off, the engine would blow, you'd come apart, you'd come unglued. But if the train stops a few times along the way, if you gotta go to that dark energy to get the train moving again. And then once you get momentum, take a breath and then you could start focusing on where you want to go. And I've never talked through this ever. And we're describing my life because I would bet to say I'm 80% looking towards a bigger future. The hatch is open. But man, when the hatch closes and I'm in a dark place, I look backwards to the pain. And it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, I love that. I've heard you talk about, and you mentioned it earlier, some people, you said it was obvious, but I actually don't think it is for most people because most people, I don't think take the time to really concretize what they think. I've heard you talk about journaling. I think it's really important. But what you said earlier, and I don't think it's as self evident as maybe it should be, is that some people are moving towards pleasure, some people are moving away from pain, or maybe we all are on that doing one or the other from time to time. We just happen to be dominant one way or the other. But by recognizing whether you tend to move towards pleasure or whether you tend to move towards pain or away from pain, it gives you another tool in your kit to get things moving. So two and a half years ago now. Wow.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think almost when Covid kicked off, I really started to worry about people in general, like what they're going to be going through that don't have the skill set that they need to like get things going. And now as we. Because there like the economic hit of COVID was pretty brief because of the massive stimulation, but now we're taking the cost of that massive stimulation. I mean, in my sort of overly simplified version of what's happening. But I think people are going to get the hatch closed again. It's going to be really difficult for them to get that momentum going. What do you think around self narrative? That to me is like one of the big things you sort of threw off that you asked yourself who you wanted to be or people should think about. Like, wouldn't they be more afraid of being on their deathbed and not having become the person that they could have been? What do you think about self narrative? How do you use it? And if you do use it, like, how do you craft it?

[Dean Graziosi]

Really great question. It's easy to say be at the end of your life and get to, you know, I heard somebody say it and I think it was Ed Mylett. Use the version of it. And I said, one day, imagine if you know your maker or you meet someone at the end of your life and they played a video of the man or woman you could have been. I have to use some of that narrative sometimes because it is a juggle. I own multiple companies. Right now I'm partners with Tony on two companies. I want to be that dad. I have a little one and a little baby on the way and a 13 and a 15 year old. And sometimes that juggle. Well, simultaneously there's a shift in the economy, there's craziness going on in the world. We're separated more than ever before. There's not a Lot of good news that comes out of any place anymore and it all can build up. And I think self talk. I'm. I'm thinking out loud because I don't want to just give a canned answer. I want to give the answer. We're in a space here where I'm trying to share whether it's healthy or not. The best thing I can say about selft talk is whatever leverage you need, it doesn't need fixing or you don't know to fix it if you're not aware of it. So I can give some examples in a moment of self talk that I do. But I think the number one thing is acknowledging that most all of us have self talk. And to catch it, when I'm anxious and I still get anxious, there's nothing around. I don't have anxiety, but I get anxious, I still get nervous. What I used to do is try to fix it. I'd immediately go, okay, how do I do more? How do I prepare more? How do I rehearse this 10 more times? How do I call more people? How do I work till 10 o' clock at night? Screw this weekend. I was going to go over the family. I'll just work. I used to when the self, when the stress or the worry came in, I covered it with solutions. I covered it with working more, with accomplishing more, with setting something up. Now I might still do that to a point, but what I've trained myself to do over the last decade, Tom, is stop. We said before if the hatch is closed and sit in it and say what is the self talk that's making me feel this way? The world's always been crazy. I've been in business for a long time. I don't care how long you were in business with quest, what you do now, all the different things that you've done. There's always crap. Whether in the beginning if it was a $10,000 worry or a million dollar worry or a $10,000,000 worry, the worry is always there. The difference is now I sit and I keep asking myself questions. Sometimes it's one question, sometimes it's three or four to find out what is the root of this. Why am I feeling this way? Why am I going through my day angst? Why am I little short with my wife when she doesn't deserve that? So it's the observation of the self talk. And when I find it, then I find a way to reverse it. That's my real. That's not a read out of a book. That's me. I Need to find that where before I would leave the angst, I would leave the self talk and just work my ass off through it. Does that make sense?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes, it does. So basically asking yourself a recursive why? Why do I feel this way? Why do I feel this way? And then you ultimately get past sort of the surface answers and you can really then.

[Dean Graziosi]

So, for example, I know. I know that for years, and I feel blessed. I haven't felt this in a long time. But for years, if I was a little off or something was happening, especially as my business was getting bigger than I thought I could ever grow a business, if I really, I could say, oh, my God, I lost my coo. Why is that bugging me so bad? We can. We could find that this happened. And then I. I'd ask myself, if I lost a co, maybe we won't hit our numbers for the month. And I keep asking, I keep asking. And I'd get down to a fear of going broke because I was so broke as a kid and watch my mom work three jobs to make 90 bucks a week. And when I was saying I didn't want to go backwards, like, I would sometimes ask the question, yeah, but the CEO, we can replace it. And I keep going. I keep going, keep going. And all of a sudden, God damn it, it's back to that simple. I'm this broke kid on the inside, and I'm afraid I'm going to be my dad. That just popped out of my mouth. Like, my dad was always not having money, always complaining, and it caused him to be angry. My dad fought with Everybody. I was 11 years old. I threw up blood. I had a bleeding ulcer because my dad was so angry and fought with my dad, went to a restaurant, and if the waiter wasn't polite, he'd fist fight on the ground. And I'd sit and I'd hide. I don't like confrontation. I can't watch boxing. I don't watch wrestling. I don't like confrontation. Still to this day, because of it. So I'd ask myself all those questions and I'd go, oh, my God, I'm back to, I don't want to be my dad. I don't want to be broke and angry. And then I'd say, okay, now that I know, and I've never talked about, I've never shared this. This is just me. Now that I know that, okay, the CEO left. Am I going to be okay? Absolutely. Have I ever lost the CEO in the past? Yeah, Eight years ago. And we found something was Even better. So could there be a shiny, a silver lining? This. Yes. This could actually be a good thing. And I'd go through all of them. None of these things on their own, Tom, were enough to give me anxiety or worry. But take those things, go all the way back to the childhood fear of being my dad, all of them get heavy and crazy. So if I'd address that and ask different questions by themselves, they were no big deal.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, getting self awareness is insanely important. I worry. Yes. I was going to say, I worry sometimes that people aren't able to get themselves there because they're not able to get themselves there. And they have like, like imagine somebody that hasn't developed self awareness having that. I see the shoes, I don't really put it together. I can't be in a room without music. Like that's where people really get themselves into a bind. And they're not able to assess why they're going through what they're going through. And when you're in the storm, you can get lost in the storm. And now you're just like dealing with the waves. You don't have time to sit in a safe harbor and think about the way to get out of this. That fucking freaks me out more than you can imagine. Because there are certain things in my life that I don't think that I really did anything to deserve. And when I didn't do something to deserve them, but I know I have it, then I get really worried for other people because I'm like, without this tool. Like, this one really scares me now. For me, growing up, I was really oblivious. And people now that may know me only from what they see on YouTube, which is a weird sentence to say, but nonetheless true. I hopefully seem very self aware because at some point in my 20s, I really started developing self awareness, but I don't know that I did anything to. I don't know what the first insight was. It was just finally realizing, oh man, the person's making fun of me. And then you're like, why is that person making fun of me? And that was really how I began to unwind it. But to give you a sense of how oblivious I was, I was probably 26, 27, bumped into a guy that I went to high school with. He was like, tom, I have got to apologize to you. And I was like, why? And he was like, I was so mean to you in high school. And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, man. I like, really? You know, I can't remember if he said bullied but that was like the impression he was trying to give. And I was like, man, I don't remember you saying a single bad thing. And he was like, what? And so he had obviously been saying things behind my back. I had no idea. So I was like, whoa. I think I was distressingly oblivious. Now the crazy thing is I didn't have anxiety when I lacked self awareness. Now as I've become self aware, I've become anxious, but I'm far more effective. And so, man, like all of this

[Dean Graziosi]

stuff, almost a trade off.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Yes, it's a trade off, Dean. Very well said. It's all a trade off. And as. So the reason I got excited that you and Tony are doing the thrive challenge. How to thrive, how to thrive challenge.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah. Time to thrive.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Time to thrive. I know I was getting a word wrong. The time to thrive challenge is that one. Tony is one of the earliest people that helped me begin to get a grip on my mind. I will forever owe him a debt of gratitude. Like, I can only imagine how many people on this planet have that same sentence. But it really is your mind and helping people begin to get a sense of, oh, wait, I can take control of this. Even just the idea that Tony throws out, I think it's so powerful. Ask how the worst thing that ever happened to you is actually the best thing that ever happened to you. And just by asking that different question, you can really change your life. So give me some. Like, what. What is the core thing in this Time to thrive challenge? What are you going to be pushing people to do? What do you want them to think about? Like, how do they begin to pull that out of the ether and make it concrete?

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah. And I started off with that because, you know, I love the way this interview turned. So thank you. That's why you're so good at what you do. But my whole point was, and if you know Tony, you guys have known each other for years. You just interviewed him recently. He impacted my life. 25 years ago, I was. I was having success in the most dysfunctional, if I can use a word, hosed up. Way possible. Like, I talk about using the nitrous button once in a while. The dark side. I'd bet to say at 27, I was finding success. I just had my finger on the dark button every day of my life. I was just running away from fear. I had all these marriages. Life happened to me. I was a victim. But I could work through it and I could power through it. And I don't need sleep and I don't need to be okay. And I don't need a real relationship and I don't need to ever talk to my parents again because I'm going to be successful, I'm going to make money and be in control of my life. Right. And then I buy a course from Tony Robbins, and he just spoke into my heart and shifted things big time for me. I mean, I went in this industry because of Tony 25 years ago, but I also let go of a lot of stuff. So I feel the same. I feel the same way. So we've been dear friends for a decade more now, about 12 years. And for first seven years of our relationship, and I'll just take a little back, a little history of this. We never did business because I saw so many people wanting to partner with Tony. I'm like, we're friends. We talk like four days a week for like seven years. We just bonded. And I'm like, I don't want to ruin it with business because I've seen so many people come in want to do business. But for years, all we talked about is how self education saved our life. And you could use a lot of different terms, but it was Jim Rohn for him and it was him for me. So it's pretty cool he had Jim Rohn. But now I got Tony and I've been able to sell lots of books and do all the things that I've done and start 13 companies and new York Times bestselling books. Who would ever thought, right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

The kid with dyslexia.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah. And so we talked about it so much. And then one day we said, you know, when we started, I. People always ask me, why did you do an infomercial? I was on infomercials for years because I bought Tony's course off in infomercial. You probably did too. When I started, there was no Internet. 25 years ago, there wasn't even AOL messenger. So people say, why'd you do infomercial? There was no other option. And we talked about when I started the infomercial business, I taught people how to make money with cars because that's how I got started. But I had to do an infomercial. I had to come up with about 250,000 bucks. And a lot of it was on credit card. And then you hope you put it on TV and it works. So for years we're having this conversation of how it saved our lives and the industry's exponentially growing. And we just decided, why don't we teach it? How do we Leave our legacy. I mean, Tony more than me, he's got 40 something years, I got 25 years. But I said, how do we leave our legacy? It's like, why don't we show people what we've discovered over these 60 years combined, that their greatest asset is their life experience. Their greatest asset is the experience. Like you went through a divorce and it was hell. You went through the valley of life. You went through hell, scared about your kids, but now you're on the other side and your kids are thriving and you're better and you found a relationship. You went through this valley, you're on the other side. There's a million people today starting before the valley. And what they're realizing is who can give me the bridge, who can help me get across this quicker. I don't want to go through the depths of this. I want someone to help me. And I think the world has realized that they don't want to learn on their own, they don't want to go back to school. Who has been there rather than how people are looking at who. And that's why this industry is exponentially growing. So we decided four years ago, let's share what we know and let's create a whole bunch of people. Let's make it so people feel guilty if they die someday without sharing their life experience. And we launched three years ago with a free training and it immediately turned into a movement that we've seen now over 3 million people, over 160 countries have registered for our training, you know, register for our trainings and, and what we want to show in, in the, and you know, ask any questions you have. But basically we all have an asset, like I said in the beginning, that lives inside of our head. Whether it was the mess you went through, whether it was, you know, the, the experience, the starting the business, the great marriage, the bad marriage that turned good. Lost yourself, found yourself cured something. Naturally we all went through this experience and there's people out there that need it today. So now that winter is here or winter is coming, people need this now more than ever. So that's why we decided, let's take five days. We're going to go about two hours a day. And over five days, we're going to show people on day one, why this industry, why them, why now? Day two, how to identify what should be the thing that you sell. Did you learn it from somebody else? Tony Wright wrote Money Master to the Game because he interviewed all the top financial people. He wasn't the financial guy, so he Became the reporter. And still it's the best selling financial book in the last 30, 40 years.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Whoa.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah. Still, it's a great book. It is a great book. Long and great. Very. And now he just did the same thing with Lifeforce. He's not the health expert. He interviewed all the 150 top health experts. So you either learn something from somebody else, you have a life experience that's valuable, or you want to bolt it onto a company. We just want to show people it's a great business on the side to attach to a current business, to start something new, to sell what you know. And it's only scary because people don't know how to do it. So we originally started three years ago with a day training, then we went to three. And if you know anything about Tony, he can't help but to over deliver. He's like, no, we need to give him five days. Five days so we can show him why this, why now, how to unlock it, figure out what it is, identify who wants it, how to ethically sell it through service, how to make it a real business. That's over five days. And we did it last year, had 900,000 people register last year. And it was unbelievable. The reason, and this is probably the last year we're doing it because there's just too much going on and it's hard to take five days, Tony's time, my time and all the stuff around it to do a million people. But people need it now more than ever. And I think it's just a great way for people to investigate and see if it's something they should be doing.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's really interesting. YouTube has really changed the world. And I don't know how much you pay attention to YouTube and where things are going. And I bring up YouTube only because it's basically people having a direct link to the audience. And I see you guys bringing that same ethos to what you're doing. But there is something really interesting that happens when you can just test something, try something. Because the thing that you guys are really good at, marketing, putting the courses together, unlocking people's potential, getting them to believe in themselves, self, narrative, all that stuff that they're going to have to do in order to have the courage to put it out. Who am I to do this? Everybody's going to ask that question. You're going to have to help them through that. But then when they start doing this, what they're going to realize is that they're going to have to learn how to market. They're going to have to learn how to sell. Do you know Mr. Beast by any chance?

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah, of course.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You say of course.

[Dean Graziosi]

My kids just asked me on the way here.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, my God, they just asked me. So I've recently become obsessed with this guy. I've watched so much of his content now, it is absolutely insane. This guy basically gives up his entire childhood to just learning how to make video go viral. And I remember him saying, if you knew what I knew about virality, you could go from having no subscribers to. Oh, God, what did he say? Like 500,000 in six months. And I was like, what? Like, that's such a crazy claim. But when you hear him talk about it, all it is is everything has been disintermediated, right? So you can go direct to the viewer. You figure out the pipeline, which is YouTube. You figure out what YouTube cares about in order to get in front of that person. And you just try and try and try and try and try. Now, what I love about Mr. Beast is that he is awkward. Like, really awkward. And when you see his early videos, you're like, this guy's never gonna make it. Like, I have to imagine everyone he ever met pulled him aside and was like, bruh, because I love you, I'm just gonna tell you stop. Yeah, this is not for you.

[Dean Graziosi]

This is not you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I heard you say that your sister, like, came did an intervention with you when you were starting Motor Millions. But Anyway, to make Mr. Beast, long story short, he ends up murdering it. This kid gets, I think he has one video that has almost 250 million views. It's insane. And because it's all on YouTube, you get to watch him go from obscenely awkward to just. I don't know, he must have. I mean, in his own words, he was so obsessed with getting good at YouTube that, like, he almost didn't care that he looked like a fool. He was just like, I have to practice. I have to keep getting good. I have to put myself out there. And to see now, like, he doesn't have Brad Pitt looks, right? Because an easy way is like, well, good looking people, of course, you know, they've got such an advantage. Not that he's unattractive, but, like, he's not Brad Pitt. He doesn't have, like, the easiest gift of gab you could see where, like, in person he might be a little awkward. And he's just gotten so many reps under his belt of like, doing this thing, doing this thing, doing this thing. And to the point about why time to Thrive would work now where it wouldn't have worked back when you and Tony were in infomercials and it required $250,000 on credit cards and all that. It's a huge fucking risk. S. But now, really, from a technological standpoint, I'm super optimistic because. So I'll bring this all around because I really am going somewhere with all this. That I have deep and abiding fears that the middle class has evaporated. I've become very excited about web3 because. Oh, God, it gives people a way to monetize. Like, I'm an artist, and now you can actually make money. I can do this, that, or the other, and I can put it on blockchain. And now I can do something that I couldn't have done before. It just. It really adds a way for people to make money, money in ways that they couldn't have previously. And I see that same thing with what you guys are really trying to do. And I'm going to boil it down to different language than you would use.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Hey, everybody, you have a key piece of knowledge that somebody else would pay a lot of money for.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But you have to. You have to turn it into a class.

[Dean Graziosi]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I don't know if you use that word.

[Dean Graziosi]

Class, workshop.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And then you have to course learn how to sell it.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah, that's. That really is. That's really what it is. And if you think about it, Shopify, right. If you take Shopify, it's growing because so many people are selling their products and using Shopify. What Tony and I are teaching. Just what you said is instead of a physical product, you have an information product that your life experience has a value. You just have to identify it. And you're right. People are going to think I'm not an expert. Who would listen to me. We'll bust that myth. Right. I don't have any followers, thank goodness. Right. We have people in 4,500 different niches around the world selling the craziest things from painting with wolves. A woman, she does a workshop where people come to her. Outside, she lays puppies, little wolves. Because the energy of a wolf while you're doing something calm like painting. And she sells out her workshops. Now she does it virtual. We have people helping people through eczema and how to do hair extensions and everything you could have possibly imagined. Because people are thinking, I do have something. I went through this life experience. I mean, I was thinking this, and I'm going to digress to this in a moment. You built Quest and Had nightmare days and beautiful days. We did it and I think we're going to lose it. All of these variations that you went through. What would it be worth to you right now if you could go back and spend a day with your 20 year old self?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Dean, actually that question makes me want to cry. Yeah, like the I. Because I had always posed it and it's interesting, the subtle difference really freaked me out. I had always posed it like if I had 30 minutes to give myself like one piece of information and you were like, no, what if you had like a week or whatever and you could like train them? I was like, oh my God. The thought of like how much of my own suffering I could have mitigated is crazy.

[Dean Graziosi]

And Tony and I have asked that to hundreds of thousands of people now. And in the chat, if we're virtual or in person, it's always one or two questions. If someone's thinking through a financial lens, they say millions. But most people write priceless. Some people write, I'm crying, literally, I

[Tom Bilyeu]

don't even know why it makes me emotional.

[Dean Graziosi]

People say I'm crying. And that's the best way I can describe an experience that everyone has. There's somebody starting out right now doesn't mean they're younger. They're starting out in an area that you've already been through. You've been through the journey, right? I mean, for years, if I saw you once a year, I couldn't wait for you to sell or create something where you could teach people. You've learned so much and there's so many people starting wanting to start their quest, like business, whatever business it's into.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I wasn't doing ITU the last time I interviewed you.

[Dean Graziosi]

No.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So people should know you're the reason I started doing itu. I could not wrap my head around it, around selling it. I was like, I just want to give everything away. And I was really uncomfortable with it. And you were the person that was like painting a vision for are you ever going to do it? You. If it were free. And I was like, no, I don't have time. And you're like, exactly, motherfucker. So like either figure out a way to get comfortable with it, not even either. You were like, find a way to get comfortable with it because otherwise it's never going to exist and it never

[Dean Graziosi]

would have come out of your head. And think of right now. I could say, I know for a fact there's someone that you could think about that's a part of that program. Their lives have already Changed facts. And how do you feel about that?

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's crazy.

[Dean Graziosi]

I watch you get goosebumps all the time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's crazy.

[Dean Graziosi]

If you would have done it for free, first off, you never would have done it. And if you did do it, people who don't pay, they wouldn't have taken it seriously. People pay to go to college. They pay for education. And you're not taking them through four years of wide. You're taking them down specialized knowledge because you've already had the sleepless nights and the stress and the anxiety and thinking it was going to fail. And you already had the win and you had an exit and you went through all this stuff is. I'm using Tony's terms. But you condense decades or a decade into a short period of time, and that's why knowledge is so valuable. When I said before, your. Your information is maybe the greatest asset you have, Tom. I love having conversations. We get together maybe once, twice a year in a mastermind with other people. Some of my favorite times because there's. I can think back for five years now or four years we've been together. And there's always something I take away from you. I always. In my journal that shifts my life. That's an absolute fact, Tom, how valuable that is. And the cool part about it is everybody has that valuable knowledge inside of them. We really created a process to help people go, I don't think I can. What would. Oh, well, I could do that, but I don't think. I don't have any followers. Oh, because of Facebook and YouTube and Instagram. Oh, I could do that. Yeah. But I couldn't teach it. I'm an introvert and I'm scared. But what if you could tell a story and then teach through the story and then give them an exercise? Well, I could do that. So that's. These five days are more like. Like I picture and so does Tony. We talk about this. We picture you showing up and going, I don't know if I could sell what I know, but you know, Tom recommended. I trust Tom. I'll go check it out. And we picture some people are going to come and go, I'll see what this is. And then they go, oh, I could probably do that. I couldn't do that. Oh, yes, I could. And that's our goal, is to just not force somebody. It's not a magical money machine to get rich for doing nothing. That's the complete opposite. It's a real industry heading towards a trillion dollars a year. People are wanting the information in Other people's heads. And we just want to help people.

[Tom Bilyeu]

They like it at an individual level.

[Dean Graziosi]

Exactly.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's the part that's really interesting. I don't. People our age do not understand how much the world has changed. Go watch Mr. Beast. Like, as I started binging his content, I was like, oh, my God. Everything is different and I know it. But like, kids today do not understand that TV was just different when you and I were growing up.

[Dean Graziosi]

True story.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And what they also can't appreciate is that they're going to be old one day and YouTube and all that is going to be outdated and super dumb. And it will have so ingrained itself in the patterns in their brain that they'll have a hard time breaking out of it. And so I have a hard time breaking out of, like, the traditional model of, like, well, this is what a TV show is like. I get more viewership than most of the major TV shows out there. Like, that's crazy.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But I do. Almost 30 million views a month.

[Dean Graziosi]

It's insane.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's insane. Which is probably bigger than basically every TV show out there. And that's so weird. Even saying it now is just bizarre. People really are. They want to like. Like the woman painting with wolves. That's very strange.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah. It's so outlandish.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. But there's going to be a niche for it a hundred percent.

[Dean Graziosi]

So I'll give you an example. You're using YouTube. My kids YouTube TV is completely different. They're 15 and 13. They're in the other room. They might be watching YouTube right now

[Tom Bilyeu]

because they're waiting for us.

[Dean Graziosi]

Or tick tock. Right. But my daughter talked about wanting to do oil painting. And one of our. Without me knowing, she goes onto our platform. A student of ours that we taught ages ago or two, three years ago, never thought he could do it. I remember hearing his story. Didn't think he could do it. I'm just an artist. I don't know how to sell. I don't know how to teach. It was so cool. We're in our house in upstate Arizona, and I come into the den and my daughter has got her laptop open. She's got the paint up, and she's taken a class from Anthony, who used to just be an artist. Now he's teaching other people art just the way he does it. And she's taken a class and I was like, this is our world. She's watching online. She's doing what she's doing. She's painting. And she doesn't know any Different. And that's the way the world is going. And the cool part, you said something I really want you to think you're not teaching everyone. I think you get overwhelmed. This is the last part. I'll share on this. I think people get overwhelmed when they think I gotta be something for everyone. Right? If Anthony thought I got to be the best artist in the world and I have to have this and I have to be insult, maybe I had to sell paintings for millions of dollars. No, Anthony was a really good dude who knew how to do oil painting, went to art class, went to art school, was an art major. And now he's got a business teaching people just to paint art because they want to start. He's a chapter ahead. If he thought about teaching everything or how to, you know, paint the ceiling of the, you know, of Sistine Chapel, you get overwhelmed. But teaching a 14 year old girl at the time how to start and who could be better than that guy? And when we. What we show people is how to narrow it down to this tiny little dot. If you try to teach everybody. Overwhelming this little dot. You could teach it. And there's potentially millions of people in that little dot.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's so interesting. Where do people go for the free five day.

[Dean Graziosi]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Time to thrive challenge. And I'd love to know why it's a challenge.

[Dean Graziosi]

Because every day we challenge people to an action at the end of the day. And the reason I, Tony and I call it that way is because him better than anyone, he's like, if people take this, if you leave the scene of learning without taking an action, the momentum goes away. So every day we teach and every night we give you an uncomfortable. A challenge to move this forward so you're ready for the next day. So that's the reason we call it a challenge. We could have called it a workshop or a. But it's like two, two and a half. We try to stick with two. It usually goes about two and a hour. Tony likes to go long. It's. You can go to thrive 450 thrive450. I think that's what my team has as a URL. It's the time to thrive challenge and go. We have some great guests this year. We're gonna have Matthew McConaughey come in. I think you didn't you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I did. You did.

[Dean Graziosi]

And I loved green lights or green. Yeah, green lights. And he entered our industry. It's not about him being an actor. I mean I still think in my head. So I'm going through something. I Go green light in his voice. I don't know how to say it like he does, but I. So I got him on. Luckily we got him on the phone and I said, how do you, like, be in this business? He's like, I'm obsessed. 50 plus movies. I love all the impact I made. But I've never had more comments like this in my life than I did on writing this book. Like, people are telling me I changed their lives. I said, well, welcome to the information industry. Welcome to self education. And we're working with him on doing more cool stuff because he wants to go deeper in it because it's addicting. So it's five days. It starts on August 2nd and go to thrive450.com See all the cool speakers, see the guests. And here's. I would just say a couple of things. Show up ready to play full out, mark it off on your calendar. Secondly, this is going to sound crazy, but pretend you paid a thousand bucks for it. If you've ever been to a Tony event or one of my events. We charge a lot of money for our events. We're doing this free. And sometimes people. Free. Who said if you don't pay, you don't pay attention. Sometimes they devalue free. Like, maybe I'll go, maybe I won't. This might be the last time Tony and I ever do something like this. It is five days. So pretend you paid a thousand bucks, write it in your journal, stick it in your mind. Then you'll absolutely show up and grab a friend. It's a. It's a. It's something that could really. Because, you know, Tony is going to spend time day one talking about winter. He can't help himself, and he's going to really help you with a mindset of how to ski through winter. And then we're going to take you through this journey for five days. And I think. I think it'll be something really special. We're hoping for a million people. I think we'll get there.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I love it, man. It's amazing. Boys and girls, Dean Graziosi has changed my life. And he'll change yours if you let him. Speaking of things that will change your life, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. Until next time, my friends. Be legendary. Take care. Peace.