The Best Advice You’ll Ever Get On Having Kids (Replay)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu

Episode: "The Best Advice You’ll Ever Get On Having Kids (Replay)"

Date: August 24, 2023
Hosts: Tom Bilyeu & Lisa Bilyeu

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Episode Overview

In this candid and heartfelt episode of Relationship Theory on Impact Theory, Tom and Lisa Bilyeu dive deep into their personal journey and reasoning behind their shared decision not to have children. Responding to a listener's question, they dissect cultural expectations, personal values, marriage dynamics, the impact of ambition, and the importance of intentional life choices. The conversation is both practical and emotional, emphasizing self-awareness, honest communication, and living without regrets.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: The Listener Question and Personal Background

• Timestamps: 01:07 – 02:00
  • The episode is prompted by a listener, Karolina, who shares her own uncertainty about having kids due to life ambitions.
  • Lisa openly discusses her Greek upbringing, which ingrained the expectation that marriage equals children.
  • Both Tom and Lisa clarify that their decision was the result of years of evolving conversations and self-reflection, not a rash choice.

2. Tom and Lisa’s Individual Perspectives on Parenthood

• Tom’s Perspective

  • Timestamps: 02:05 – 05:30
  • Tom admits he still feels a genuine desire for kids at times, but realizes he wants not to have kids even more.
  • He reflects on the fulfillment he receives from building businesses and impacting lives, which outweighs traditional parenting fulfillment for him.
  • Quote: “The only thing I want more than I want kids is to not have kids.” (04:11)
  • Tom values being his wife’s “number one” and recognizes that children would inevitably change that dynamic.

• Lisa’s Perspective

  • Timestamps: 05:30 – 10:00
  • Lisa describes being culturally primed for motherhood, never even considering not having kids until she met Tom.
  • Her ambition and joy from her business journey slowly shifted her views. She discusses her growing offense at others predicting she’d never have kids, confronting a truth she hadn’t admitted to herself.

3. The Power of Deliberate Decision-Making

• Timestamps: 10:00 – 14:00
  • Tom and Lisa meticulously mapped out hypothetical daily/weekly life scenarios with kids, laying out roles and responsibilities.
  • Tom: “You can ask me to give up anything but my ambition.” (10:21)
  • Lisa recognizes she wouldn’t want to split her time between motherhood and business, valuing undivided focus over juggling responsibilities.
  • They explore emotional ramifications, including Tom’s unwillingness to be a stay-at-home dad and Lisa’s desire to emulate her mother’s presence.

4. Marriage Dynamics, Resentment, and Honest Assessment

• Timestamps: 14:00 – 16:27
  • Tom articulates that the primary caregiver often becomes taken for granted, leading to hidden resentment, a reality they observed in others.
  • He shares the best advice he received: > “Have kids, don’t have kids, it doesn’t matter. But whatever you do, do it all the way.” (15:50)
  • They weigh the risks—loss of marital specialness, potential future loneliness, possible regrets—and decide not to gamble on the unknown.

5. Facing Future Regrets & Contingency Planning

• Timestamps: 18:18 – 25:30
  • Lisa voice concerns about future scenarios: “What happens if you die and I’m 45 and alone?” (20:20)
  • She and Tom discuss whether to freeze eggs as a hedge against future regret, but ultimately decide against it due to health factors and lack of urgency.
  • Lisa’s medical update (“healthy eggs, but they just weren’t dropping”) provides a real-life “test” of her current feelings, affirming her contentment with their choice.
  • Quote (Lisa): “There’s no fear of loss right now…that was very, very comforting for me.” (27:00)

6. Ambition, Fulfillment, and the ‘Renewal’ Other Than Parenting

• Timestamps: 28:00 – 33:00
  • Tom reflects on the lack of “renewal” in their future family tree (no children among siblings). Yet, the energy and mentorship opportunities within Impact Theory provide that youthful renewal and sense of legacy.
  • Quote (Tom): “A part of my life will always be mentoring young people.” (28:54)
  • Tom acknowledges a foreseeable regret at 75—no Christmas with grandkids, only seniors around—but states, “I will regret it, but I won’t regret it enough to change my behavior.” (30:35)

7. Social Judgment, Identity, and Womanhood

• Timestamps: 33:33 – 37:40
  • Lisa addresses the judgment women, especially from traditional backgrounds, face for choosing not to have children.
  • She challenges the notion that not having kids is “selfish,” instead framing their decision as honest, nurturing to others in different ways, and true to themselves.
  • Quote (Lisa): “Just because I don’t choose to bear children myself doesn’t mean that I’m not nurturing and caring for the people around me. And it does not make me less of a woman.” (37:00)

8. Final Advice: Living Without Regrets

• Timestamps: 37:40 – 39:00
  • Tom reiterates the core advice: “Have kids, don’t have kids. But whatever you do, do it all the way.” (37:42)
  • The Bilyeus stress the importance of intentional living, deep personal inventory, and open partnership discussions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ambition and Parenting
  • Tom: “You can ask me to give up anything but my ambition.” (10:21)
  • Lisa: “If I’m going to have kids I want to be the mother that my mum was to me… I like going all in something. I don’t like being distracted.” (11:09)
• On Living with No Regrets
  • Lisa: “I want to explore every ounce of possibilities so that I know even if I do regret it in the future, I can say, but Lisa, you thought about it and you actually said no.” (23:18)
• On Social Judgment
  • Lisa: “It was really hard at first… I didn’t want to be perceived as someone that’s not nurturing… It does not make me less of a woman.” (37:00)
• Core Advice
  • Tom: “Have kids, don’t have kids, it doesn’t matter. But whatever you do, do it all the way.” (15:50, 37:42)
  • Tom: “If I’m successful in raising a child, they will want their own life… I’m still going to have to occupy my days with things that I’m passionate about.” (31:02)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:07 – Listener Question Introduction
• 02:05 – Tom’s True Feelings About Having Kids
• 05:30 – Lisa’s Greek Upbringing & Early Views on Children
• 10:21 – Tom on Ambition vs. Parenting
• 11:09 – Lisa on Wanting to Emulate Her Mother
• 14:00 – Discussion of Resentment Dynamics in Parenting
• 15:50 – Tom Shares the Best Parenting Advice He Ever Got
• 20:20 – Lisa Imagines Life Alone After Tom, Considers Egg-Freezing
• 27:00 – Lisa’s Emotional Realization at the Doctor’s Office
• 28:54 – Tom on Finding Renewal Through Mentorship
• 30:35 – Tom’s Future Regret Acknowledgment
• 33:33 – Lisa on Company Culture as a Source of Fulfillment
• 37:00 – Lisa Defends Her Womanhood Without Motherhood
• 37:42 – Tom Repeats Core Life Advice

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Tone and Language

• Tone: Honest, vulnerable, direct, sometimes humorous, always introspective and practical.
• Language: The Bilyeus are candid about their personal feelings, societal pressures, and the nuances of their relationship. They approach the topic with respect for differing choices while emphasizing the importance of intention.

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Summary Conclusion

This episode offers a refreshingly honest look at the dilemma of having children, especially for ambitious couples. Tom and Lisa Bilyeu expose the layers of their process—cultural scripts, shifting ambitions, practical trade-offs, and fear of future regret—while championing deliberate and courageous self-reflection. Ultimately, they encourage listeners to choose their own version of fulfillment, stand proudly behind it, and, most importantly, “do it all the way.”

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Transcript

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[Tom Bilyeu]

Welcome to another episode of Relationship Theory. I'm your co host, Tom Bilyeu, and I am here with my lovely wife with her hair freshly did. Lisa Bilyeu.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

My baby.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What's up, homie?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

What's going on?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'm ready to rock. You ready?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Let's do this. I'm excited for today's episode.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Because it's something that I've actually really wanted to talk about. So we went in and looked for a question that actually fits this theme.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Let's hear it.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

All right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I actually don't know what it is.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

You don't?

[Tom Bilyeu]

But it kind of sounds like a setup. But I really.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

It's not a setup. All right. So the question comes from Karolina Jacowitz. I'm sure I butchered that name. I apologize. There's a lot of letters.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

That sound look silent, so. All right. Hello, you amazing people. Question around children. Sounds like Tom was a no. And Lisa used to be a maybe. At some point. At some point, decision has to be made so you can focus on the future. I'm in exactly the same situation with huge plans to build a business with my partner. And kids just don't fit in there, which I'm happy with. Lisa, do you ever think, what if one day my body would want children? I feel strong. I made right decisions, but would be interested to hear your thoughts. So.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, it's a question direct to you.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Well, so let's talk about our decision to not have kids and how we came about that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So I really wanted kids. In fact, the most truthful way for me to explain this is I really want kids. Even today, like, I really want kids. And every now and then, something will happen. I'll see something on tv, in a movie, a friend, whatever. And I'LL think kids would be dope. And then I remember the only thing I want more than I want kids is to not have kids. And if I could do both, like if there were some way to. Which I guess is why parents are like, I like being a grandparent. Cause it's like you feel connected to them, you're genetically related, like you have a reason to emotionally invest.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

But you can give them back when you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But yeah, they go home. So I do get why people have kids. And I think that it would be a tremendously beautiful experience. But when I think about what I want my. My day to day life to be, the things that light me on fire and make me most passionate, it's just not that. And when I. I'm very grateful that I big brothered as long as I did because it very much had that vibe to it and all of the beautiful and all of the horrifying and that was when I really started seeing the realities so as we. But I didn't have anything else. Right. So when you think about fulfillment in your life and you're in your 20s and you've never experienced fulfillment other then through a relationship like that, that becomes the de facto. And I think one of the reasons that so many people have kids and one of the reasons that kids is such an amazing path for so many people is it really is pretty instantaneous fulfillment. Like suddenly you're of service to somebody else. It's about love, it's about putting somebody else first, it's about getting good at taking care of them. And that has real world implications and they're able to go on and do things. And also just especially for the woman, biologically your brain goes through these massive changes. So it is a very fulfilling path to go down. But as I got older and engaged more in building things and creating things and touching people's lives through what I'm able to build, I saw that not only was it a path to fulfillment, but for me it was actually more rewarding. What was more rewarding building was more rewarding than it had been to big brother. Now I get that that's a shade of parenting. It is not full blown real parenting, but I could see that this is something that feeds me tremendously and became. When I really played out the two versions of my life, one where I have this extraordinary transformational experience from raising a child, this extraordinary relationship as an adult with adult children and all of that, versus being able to really pour myself into the marriage and not having. Because that's a whole nother thing. And now I'm really in danger of just talking too much when this person desperately wants to hear from you. But the other thing was being in a marriage. The thing that makes it worthwhile to me is being somebody's number one. So if we have kids, I would immediately not be your number one. So that's just a reality. So I didn't want to put myself in that situation when I had another path to extraordinary fulfillment in front of me. So once I started weighing everything, it just became abundantly clear to me that that was a better choice for me.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Well, I want to take it back because I hear totally what you're saying, but Mr. Billyu himself is all about specific tactics, specific words. And so I just want to really take people down the path of what me and you have discussed in the past and how we've come to this conclusion, because it wasn't an overnight thing. Right. And that's. This is actually one reason why I really want to talk about it today is because people have asked me on social, like, oh, why have you chosen to not have kids? And there's so many little things that we've done and nuances that we've said to each other, discussions that had. That is way more in depth than just kind of writing a generic reply. So I really wanted to talk about it. So just setting the stage. I'm a Greek girl, been brought up. You're going to get married and have kids. Even though I had big dreams and aspirations, that was kind of always on, you know, that was my path, apparently, according to my family. And I really wanted kids. Like, I. It never even occurred to me that I wouldn't. I didn't know anyone growing up that didn't have a kid that was married. Everyone. If you didn't have a kid, it was because the woman had never got married and so kind of grown. It's like, okay, well, if you get married, you have children. And so when I. Our first date, I remember saying to you, like, oh, so do you ever want to get married and have kids? And you're like, yeah, maybe. And I. You were actually the first person that I. First guy that I'd met that was like, maybe. Like, I don't know. Sure, maybe. It was always like, of course I'm gonna have kids. So that actually was the first time that I ever thought about it as being, wow, it's an option. And then, anyway, we got into our relationship, we got married. For me, you know, like, I'd always wanted children. So I'd said almost I think a year into our marriage, because that was what, again, I'd kind of been trained in the Greek culture where you get married, and then pretty much within the year, almost everyone I knew fell pregnant. So I kind of just thought that was what we were going to do. And I remember you saying, like, are you joking, bae? Like, I want to spend time with you. I got married because I want to have you first. Like, I want to have you all to myself first. If kids are going to be for a lifet, I want these first few years to be just us. And we're still young. Like, I was 22 when we got married. You cradle robber, you. Wow. That escalated quickly, but I was really young. And so you're like, look, maybe like, 25. Let's start talking about it. But we've still got some years in us. Come 25. I think you started Entrepreneurial Journey then.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, I started, what, just under a year.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah. So for about seven years after we were saying, okay, we're gonna start having children, you started going on to your entrepreneurial journey. And you very much. We sat down and you said, look, right now, I want to be able to take risks. We moved closer. You could be by your business partners. Like, all things. Like, that was. Everything was revolving around what we're gonna try and do in our life and our success. And you were very open and honest about how you felt that kids would be in your lifestyle and what our dreams are. So I was very understanding. Course, don't worry. Like, I'. Young. No need to rush. Let's put this off aside, you know, for the next year. For the next year. And then it became, okay, well, I want to have kids by the time I'm 29. And then I turned 29. Well, maybe I'll get pregnant at 29, and then I'll have. So we kept pushing it off. Came to a point where Quest started. And this is where I went from being a housewife to really getting in the game myself and figuring out business and finding myself and finding the strengths I never knew I had and finding that I love to learn. And. And over time, I remember I had some friends at the time, and they were saying to me, you're never gonna have kids. And I was like, what are you talking about? Of course I'm gonna have kids. And they're like, no, you're never gonna have kids. I know. And I actually took offense to it because I thought, what do you mean? Why wouldn't I have kids? Like, what are you trying to say? I don't know why I took offense to it. I think it was because the first time someone had just blatantly said that,

[Tom Bilyeu]

I don't know, it's always something inside you maybe.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You don't like about that or a truth you hadn't wanted to admit to yourself or something.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah. In fact that's pro right. The truth I hadn't admitted to myself. And then we started talking more and more about what our lives would actually look like and this is where for me I think changed everything. So we just sat down and we said okay, are we like I'm not getting any younger. So at some point we have to figure out if we're going to have kids, then we need to act, start acting quickly because my eggs are just going to get older every year. And we sat down and we really laid out what do you want from life? What do you want from me as your wife? And what do our day to day's look like? And I don't if you remember this, but we literally laid out what like a week would look like if we had children. It may have been a day or a week. I remember it being a period of time and we're like all right. So you said to me honestly, in fact why don't you say what you said to me about not not wanting to give up who you are.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well I don't remember exactly which you talking about. I don't remember saying this specifically with kids. Just that my whole thing is you can ask me to give up anything but my ambition.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Ye, you actually also said that with kids in the sense of like I just want to make it abundantly clear I'm not going to be a stay at home dad.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You would be the primary caregiver.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

You would be the primary caregiver. And you were very upfront and honest about that. And so you then said, so if you're going to be the primary caregiver, how do you feel about that? What do your days look like? So I ran through okay, what would my day look like if I had help, if I had a nanny. And I thought, you know what the truth is for me and this whole thing is about me and you and how we dealt with it may not be right for other people but for me it really was. If I'm going to have kids I want to be the mother that my mum was to me. Like she was so present in school activities, in trips, in vacations, in extracurricular activities, going to sports games and things like that. My mum was always there. My Mum helped out school and I felt so good. And I always thought to myself, like, that's the type of mum I want to be. And when I thought about the fact that I love business and I love working and I love what I do, how do I do both? And it means I either have to sacrifice or split my time. And the truth is, I. The truth is for me, I don't want to split my time. Like, I like going all in something. I don't like being distracted. I don't like feeling frantic, frantic. Creates anxiety inside me. Anxiety actually creates misery inside me. Like, I know that about myself, that that's the path that I would go down. And if I felt like I had to do both. So then I thought about, okay, if I had to, if I was a stay at home mom, then how would I feel? And I had to dig deep and say, I don't think that that would be fulfilling for me. And I know a lot of mothers say, you don't know until you do it, which I totally get. I really believe that. But in my sober self right now, on what I'm enjoying and loving, I love what I do. And so why would I give it up on an entity that isn't known to me? And then we sat down and then spoke about, okay, well, if I decided I wanted to be a stay at home mom, what type of father and husband would you be? And what type of wife would I be to you? So it was going through the realities of the fact that you would now become my number two. Right. My children, most just going by most mothers and how they are. Right. It's kind of embedded in us that we make sure that we take care of our children. Evolution has made sure of that. So. And I've obviously got many friends that have been married and they absolutely put their kids first. So I think the reality is I would put the children first. And then you said how you felt about that and then we went over what your life would look like coming home to a wife and a child. I don't know if you want. I've been speaking a lot, so do you want to fill in?

[Tom Bilyeu]

No. I mean, you've been really. It's amazing. And your memory for the specifics of stuff like that is far better than mine. So I don't remember the exact words that I use, but there's a host of dangers for you and I for sure, when we think about the things that we want in a relationship, not the least of which is, if I come home, I'm gonna Be the hero. So the kid is gonna be super excited to see daddy because he hasn't seen him all day. And so there's a sense, I mean, you just see this all the time, where the mom ends up feeling neglected because she's always there, she's ever present, she takes care of everything. And because dad is in limited supply, then the kid is, when they have them, is clingy. They're all about them. And it is all too easy for whoever the primary caregiver is to really be a little hurt by that. You know, I was there for you. You say this with Wookie all the time. I sat on the floor with you for a week, and I. I took

[Lisa Bilyeu]

the week off at work at Quest and worked from home and sat on the floor so I could potty train her. And you were on a trip. So for an entire week, I was the only caregiver?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And now she, like, looks at me like I'm dirt at the bottom of her pool,

[Tom Bilyeu]

which. Yeah. So feeling like you're pouring yourself into something and then being neglected, I just thought like, okay, I get how that then creates, however minor amount of friction that also creates, like, that minor resentment, which you and I have heard privately from a lot of people who weren't even saying. Saying it. You just see it in the way that they're acting that they have these resentments because one of them stays at home. And thusly, just the nature of being ever present, you begin to get taken for granted, and then the other person is in the limited quantities, and so they're reacted to very differently. And so that gets a little bit weird. And that is but one of many, many, many problems. And then my thing going back to what you were saying about you don't want to be divided. So the best piece of advice I ever got on parenting is the following. And I remember, unfortunately, I don't remember who it was, but I was on a business trip, and there was this guy, and he had kids. And we were really thinking about whether or not we have kids. And so I said, Joe, whatever his name was, should I have kids or not? And he said, tom, have kids, don't have kids, it doesn't matter. But whatever you do, do it all the way. And I said to him, that's the best advice on parenting I'm ever gonna get or deciding to be a parent. And it really is, because that made it so clear to me, like you were saying, if you're gonna be a mom, be a rad mom.

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[Tom Bilyeu]

And I knew that if I were at home, I wouldn't want something pulling me away to business, and if I were in the business, I wouldn't want something pulling me away to. I don't like things that make me wish I were somewhere else. And so I just thought, if I have kids, I'm gonna want to go home. And, you know, I've had partners that have kids and they're just on a different work schedule, like. And I didn't want that for myself. I wanted to be all in and what I was building.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And also, I remember you saying, though, which was one thing that was funny how, like, we remember the things that really hit us. For me, it was, babe, I want to be a great father. Like, I don't just want to have kids for the sake of it. Like, if I'm going to. If we're going to do it. Like, I really do want to be there for them in any time that I possibly can. And I remember you saying, so if I come home from work and I've got an hour of spare time before I have to go back to work or something, I'm going to spend it with the kids because I don't want to be an absent father. And then I actually said, what type of father do I want for my children? And the truth is, I want a father that's there. I want a father that the kids can turn to. So now, looking at the reality of what that day to day looks like, you're up super early. You probably leave before the kids are even awake. You even said, I'm not going to be getting up in the middle of the night because my sleep is so important for me to function at a high level at work. So that's how detailed we got on what are who, whose responsibilities would be whose. And you said, I'm not going to be the person getting up in the middle of the night because I need my sleep. So, okay, you're taking your sleep, you're getting up in the middle of the night. So then you think I'm then going to go to work early. As you normally do, right. Four or five in the morning, you're working.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And for the record, I do want people to know I would have happily hired a night nanny or something so that you didn't always have to be the one. But I just wasn't going to be getting up in the middle of the night.

[Grainger Advertiser]

Right.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

But I think that's. That's. It's a beautiful thing, babe, that you can admit that. Like, I think that's so important because a lot of things that what happens is, in my opinion is people get into having kids or whatever, and then they're pissed at the other person because they're not helping out, they're not doing this, they're not doing that. It's like, well, did you discuss it before it ever became a possibility? So for me, we literally laid out, like you said, you weren't going to get up in the middle of the night, that you're going to go to work the normal time that you do. So now imagine I don't see you all day. I'm exhausted because I've been up in the middle of the night. As soon as you get home, you're the hero. Like you said, you're spending the hour with the kids and then you're back to work. So I. When is mine in your time? Right. It's now being replaced. So my priority is now the kids. Your priority is now the kids. And where does that leave our marriage? And we really spoke about that and we laid that out of, like, where would that leave us and how do we maneuver that? And it's not that we can't. Right. I think that if we'd set our minds to it, we would somewhat figure it out. But the truth is, I'm actually not willing to. I'm not willing to risk what we have right now. Like, I'm not a gambler. People go to Vegas. I love Vegas. I just don't gamble. I'm not willing to gamble my husband. And the truth is, it would be a gamble because I just don't know. And I'm sure a lot of people are listening. If they've got beautiful relationships with kids, I'm sure they're like, no, no, you can do it. And I so admire that and respect that for them, but for me and you specifically, we went through every step. And yeah, after kind of talking about it and analyzing it, we said, okay, you know what? I don't want to stop my career. I love what I do. And so we decided not to have kids. But that didn't mean that we didn't think about the future. And this was actually more weighing on my mind than it was yours, I think, because I even said to you what happens? And in all God's honest truth, like, I'm being very serious here. What happens if you die? And I'm 45. Very possible, right? I'm too old to have kids. Let's say I'm too old. I know people can have kids in later age, but let's say I'm too old. The one person, the love of my life is no longer here. I'm all alone. And that is the truth. I recognize I'm all alone. I've got my family, totally understand. Love them to bits.

[Tom Bilyeu]

They're all like, wait, what?

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah, but. Right. But I am alone. And do I think, God forbid, if I could clip my fingers and know, okay, you would pass away at 45. I would have kids because I would want a piece of you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I wish people could have seen your face for that.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

They're like, I would have kids, but. Because I would want a piece of you. But I know that that's a risk, and I know that I'm gambling with that too.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Also, you want to talk about absolute nightmare, about you're looking at little Tommy and going like your dad. You look just like your dad.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I would be that horrible mother, doesn't let her kid out first.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Like, my son is my best friend, like Jesus. Like, that becomes a total nightmare because at some point, that kid needs to go be themselves. Like, there is a reason teenagers rebel. Natures baked that in to make sure that they push back, that they stand their own two feet. It's the cycle of renewal which you and I were just talking about. So there is an inevitable cycle of pushing back, defining themselves against you, being their own thing, standing on their own two feet now. Then once they're themselves and they've really established themselves, they can come back, which is that beauty of sort of the mid-20s. But man, for people that are trying to hold on to something else through their children, either the future they never had or the spouse that passed away or whatever, like, that is a recipe for a horrible relationship with your child.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And I think I'd be conscious enough, though, to not smother them like that. I think I could. I'm pretty confident I wouldn't. But I'm just saying the emotion of feeling like you're not completely gone from my life, like, I would want to hold onto that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think it would very quickly stop being about me, and it would just be about the kids. But you would have that deep sense of connection and fulfillment and going back to why parenting is so rad and why it is a beautiful path for so many people. I totally get that. So you would have that. My thing is, like, what we have is not irreplaceable. So you could find somebody else and have another amazing relationship. You'd have to be open to that. And obviously there would be a grieving period and all of that. And that's why I have said to you so many times, if something happens to me. No, to the core of your being, I want for you to find somebody else, and I want for you to be happy again. And you would need to let me diminish in your mind, and it would. You would need to invest in the new person and find that love again and live life and all of that like, that's a must. So it actually worries me because I know how deeply ingrained that notion is in your head that, like, without me, then there is only that we didn't have kids. And I wouldn't want you to think like that.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Oh, and I'm actually getting emotional, taking a little back right now. The truth is, is that I wouldn't have kids for that reason. I recognize that that's danger. Right. I recognize that that doesn't make sense. But I have thought about it, and I think it's actually very important to think about it, because the one thing I always try in my entire life is to never have regrets. And for someone to God, I didn't even think about that. Like, I want to explore every ounce of possibilities so that I know even if I do regret it in the future, I can say, but, Lisa, you thought about it and you actually said no. And you did it because in that moment, you felt right about it. So at least it's comforting for me in the future. So I'm not saying I'll never change my mind. I'm just saying that I've thought about everything, and I can in good conscience say that I've chosen the right thing for me right now. Now, do I hedge my bets? And this is kind of then the next step that we have gone through where I spoke to you about. Do I freeze my eg? Because what if, let's say, you don't die, thankfully, you're still around, but in, let's say, five years or 10 years, I mean, I'm 39 now. So let's say I decide I do want children. And I'm like, you know what? I love the Path of entrepreneurship. We've built something really special. Quest impact theory. Women of impact. Like, they'll never. They'll always be part of me, but I really do want children now. Is that a possibility? 100%. And so how do I hedge my bet? And so we spoke about, do I freeze my eggs? So we started looking into that. One reason why we didn't go down that path, I don't know if you remember, is a. My health. Because you have to take a lot of, like, hormone shots and stuff like that. And I'm already battling my health now, so that would be very problematic. And then recently, which I've never spoken about publicly, recently, as in, what was it about two months ago, maybe three months ago, I went for a checkup, just female checkup. And they actually said that they think that I have polycystic ovaries. And then they found out it wasn't polycystic ovaries. It was. What was it that had healthy eggs, but they just weren't dropping.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, they're not. You have, I think, what, healthy follicles. If I remember that's what they called them, then they don't develop into eggs.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah. So she said so basically, to let you know if you're trying to get pregnant, it would become extremely difficult. And I remember you were traveling, and I remember sitting in the doctor's office when she told me that, and she said, but do you want children? Because I remember last time you were here, you said you didn't. And I stopped and I said, no. And she said, okay, well, then this is no effect on your health. You've actually got great eggs. Like, you don't have to worry. It's not messing with your hormones. It's not changing anything. So as long as you don't want children, you actually don't have to worry about it at all. And I remember sitting there going, lisa, this is the moment. Like, this is the moment where your true feeling is going to come through. Like, are you. Are you like, oh, my God, what the. I really want a kiss and now I'm screwed? Or are you like, ah? And I was like, okay, think about it. How are you feeling? And I just sat there and I was like, fine. It didn't upset. Like, it upset me that I wasn't healthy, if that makes sense. Like, that something was wrong with my body. It's not functioning the way it should. But I was like, there's no fear of loss right now. There's no fear of shit. I should have done it earlier when I had the chance. And that was very, very comforting for me. Very comforting because I was like, okay, this is the moment where your true unexpected feelings are going to come through. And I remember calling you and I was, I was like, weird. Like I felt weird because I'd been given news about my health and because I was so in my own head about how you feeling? How did like, is your heart racing? Do you feel anxiety? Are you sad? And I remember calling you and just saying like, actually I don't feel sad at all. Did you have any actually feelings about it?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Nope. Yeah, my thing is I, I'm just not that fussed about it. Especially now. Like, I've so crossed that bridge. I don't spend time thinking about it. The one thing that I think I needed to think through. So yours was, what if something happens to him? My thing has always been we live a wonderful life. We're together and then we're 75 and there's no kids around us and there's no that sense of renewal. There's no re energized or like Christmas. I can't believe this. But between both sides of our family, we have what, seven kids? Not a single one has a child.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Siblings. And none of our. Yeah, none.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Now, two of your brothers are quite young, so it's still possible they are well within.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

We've got brothers and sisters, Adults.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. That are, that are over 40 or pressing 40 and none of us have children.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So like when I think about, wow, this is really interesting, we won't have that sense of renewal in our family of young kids coming into the mix. And there really is something to that energy. But even that, when I think about the price I would have to pay by having kids to get that, I'm like, yeah, no. So that's very, very easy for me. But one thing that I've absolutely loved about impact theory is we have so many young employees that we have that sense of energy and renewal and excitement. And I realize now how much I love that. So I know that a part of my life will always be mentoring young people. And I never quite understood why like ultra successful business guys would have like 2 or 320 something mentees. And I was always like, Jesus, like, don't you have enough on your plate? Like you've done so much and. But there's something about being in the room with people that have, that they're at that stage in their life and there's the simultaneous. Every time I look at somebody in their 20s, I think, oh God, life has, is. You don't see life the way it is yet. And you will and it will be an empowering transition. But seeing people at that stage in their life is awesome. There's something life affirming is the right phrase, but it's even born out of their naivete. But there something about their naivete. The way that even if like I don't feel like life has beat me down, I'm the most optimistic person you're ever going to meet. And I so believe in being able to create and do. And I think life is awesome. And I do not have pessimism or negativity. So it's not like that. But there is. Life toughens you up. And there's something to seeing somebody in that. Just like pure unadulterated enthusiasm, excitement, hunger. Yeah, like it's neat to be around. And renewal is the right word. And I told you the other day I woke up stark bolt upright in the middle of the night, just almost overwhelmed with this sense of how important renewal is. And not in the sense of kids in that moment, but just in the sense of why we go through a life cycle of death and rebirth. And so thinking. And I mean that from a nature standpoint, like when you look at a species, there is death, there is birth, over and over and over. And I just had such clarity as to why that happens. And that is something that I had to really process through. Like, am I going to be okay being 75, not having kids? There's no renewal. Christmas is a bunch of 75 year olds like it. You know, is all of that going to be okay for me? And that is something that I can already from my position now, you know, at 42, I can say that is a regret for me. It's a future regret right now. But I will regret it. But I won't regret it enough to change my behavior. And so recognizing that when I get there, I am going to be sad that I don't have kids around me, but not enough to pay the price that it costs to have kids. And then when I think of my parents and like how much am I a part of their day to day life? Virtually zero.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So it's at the end of the day, if I'm successful in raising a child, they will want their own life, they will have their own things that they're aimed at and hopefully they will love me as much as I love my parents. But in terms of like a day to day thing, it's like they're gonna be off doing their thing, especially if they take after me, like, like, they're going to be so driven and so focused that I'm still going to have to occupy my days with things that I'm passionate about. So when I think about 75, to me, like, the real issue is just staying healthy enough to keep being ultra aggressive towards my goals. And yeah, I mean, when I look at somebody like Warren Buffett who's still doing his thing and I think he's in his 80s now, it's like, it is real. It is a thing. Like when you love what you're doing, and I so love what we're doing. And when I think about this catching fire and being able to do that, like, literally until they don't bury me because I want to be cremated. But I'm never going to die. I'm never going to die. I'm never going to die. I just want to say that three times. So, yeah, that's having thought through all of those things. You're right. Is absolutely critical because you don't want to be taken by surprise. You don't want to make a flipping decision that affects your whole life. But at the same time, I'm very glad that we didn't just fall into that path that you were describing at the beginning.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

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[Lisa Bilyeu]

And I mean, when you said the, the people at work 100, like, I think, would my decision be different if we didn't have the company or people like working the way we work? And it may very well be. You're right. Like, I, I, I joke about some of the young guys who are like, oh, they're my kids. But the truth is I feel I care for them so freaking much that it makes me feel good to say that because I really feel bonded with them. And one of the hard things is when I get attached to people, especially when, you know, they're part of the team, but they're still your employees. So it's actually hard for me sometimes to differentiate because I so want them to succeed and because I care about them. So that's actually quite, you know, something I've tried To train myself. But 100%, I feel the such gratitude for these guys around us that are looking to really better their lives because I think that's what parents get, right? When I actually speak to parents, I sometimes do like, okay, so what are the things that you love about them? What are the things that drive you nuts? Like, I'm always quizzing parents and you know, the thing is, is that they, they like to teach them. And I get that a lot, right? Like, I like to see them develop, develop because of me, because I taught them this, I read them this book, it impacted them. And I just feel like that's kind of what we're doing A, within the company and then B, externally with all the people that we're impacting outside of the company. And then the one thing just kind of go off on a little tangent. The one thing I didn't mention is at least for me, being a woman A and then being Greek, it was really hard for me to say out loud that you weren't. That I wasn't going to have kids because it's weird because I haven't had it too much. I've heard other people and I had like one comment once, someone said this to me, but like, it's very selfish of you to not have kids.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'll never understand.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I didn't understand it because here's the thing. Selfish to who? If I had the kid and I chose to ignore them, right? Because I'm doing my own thing. It's very selfish. But it's an entity that doesn't exist.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Correct.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

So that really stung though at first because I didn't know how to handle it. I felt like, you know, my self esteem, like I was so trying to do the right thing and not be the person that just has kids and then neglects them. And to make sure that I'm always in reflecting inwards like what's going to make me happy, what's going to make my husband happy. And so it was really hard at first because also like, so the selfish thing first, but secondly it was I didn't want to be perceived as someone that's not nurturing, you know. And there's definitely two sides to my personality. Sometimes when I'm at work, I'm not nurturing at all, right? I'm like, get it done. We've got to do this. No excuses, like, we need to hit this target or whatever it is. And I'll be very, you know, straight, let's say. But then there are other times where like all I want to do is nurture. Like, I want to make the team coffee, or, you know, I did that a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, just doing things like that that really make me feel good about myself because I'm taking care of them. And it really did worry me and I think would have hurt me if people were perceiving me as not being nurturing or not a real woman. That was another thing. And I think more and more women are now speaking up about it and saying, look, having kids isn't right for me. And I've become so comfortable with it. To say, just because I don't choose to bear children myself doesn't mean that I'm not nurturing and caring for the people around me. And it does not make me less of a woman. And if you think so, then you're someone that I don't want to talk to or be around, to be honest, you know, And I'm very confident now in saying that out loud. But it took me a long time to do it. And I think that by me speaking out, by us having this conversation was really a big reason why I wanted to have it, because I wanted to be women, to feel okay with saying what is right for them without the judgment or the stigma that it makes them not a real woman or to be nurturing or a beautiful human being. Word. I appreciate you indulging me on this episode, Billy.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, absolutely. I hope that it helps some people that are, you know, not sure which path they want to bounce down. But I will say the best advice you're ever going to get about whether or not to have children is have kids, don't have kids. It doesn't really matter. But whatever you do, do it all the way. Now, that doesn't mean that you don't also work.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

The advice, it comes across like, yeah,

[Tom Bilyeu]

the advice wasn't, oh, you can't be an entrepreneur. The guy was an entrepreneur. But he said that he used to be. He used to resent being home when he could have been at work, and he used to resent being at work when he could have been home with the kids. So his thing was, you need to accept that you have kids, they are in your life. Do not resent spending time with them. Go and spend time with them. Give to them as much as you can, and don't be conflicted. Because he said, then you're not doing either thing. So you've got to go all in on that. And that was what made it so easy for me, was to go all in on that. Meant that there was going to be significant time away from building the things that I wanted to build. And that just wasn't appealing to me. But now we will loop. So I think at this point we will bid everyone farewell. Thank you guys so much for joining us. By the way, I think this is still going to go out before we're in New York. So just so everybody knows the comic, we got the physical comic today.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

I'm super excited.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It was amazing. And we're gonna be at New York city comic con October 4, 5, 6 and 7. Come join us, booth 2, 3, 6. We're very excited to meet you. Obviously only if you're interested in narrative and pop culture and all that stuff, but hopefully you are and we will get to see you there would be amazing.

[Lisa Bilyeu]

And the one thing I want to add that I've been saying in these last few episodes that has seemed to do really well. So guys, thank you so much for everyone that's doing this. But if this episode or relationship theory is bringing you value, it would mean so much to us. To screenshot, post on your IG story or something and tag us. Tag Impact Theory. Because I know I keep saying it, but your time is so limited and I love that you still take time to do this. I love it. The response from the audience is amazing. So if you want to keep this man in the hot seat to keep talking, then yeah, if we can get you guys to to spread the love and the word rate and review the podcast as well, it'd be so meaningful. So, so, so meaningful.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Awesome. Well guys, thank you so much for joining us. You can follow us at tombillew and lisabillieu. She's only on ig. I'm pretty much everywhere, so hopefully I will see you guys there. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Everybody, thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to itunes, go to Stitcher Rate and review us. That helps us build this community and that is what we are all about right now. Building this community as big as we can to help as many people as we can deliver as much value as possible. And you guys rating and reviewing really helps with that. Alright guys, thank you again so much. And until next time my friends, be legendary. Take care.

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