The Success Trap: Everything You Know About Fulfillment & Happiness is Wrong! | Matthew McConaughey

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Tom Bilyeu’s Impact Theory

Episode: The Success Trap: Everything You Know About Fulfillment & Happiness is Wrong!
Guest: Matthew McConaughey
Date: April 11, 2023

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1. Episode Overview:

This episode examines the gap between success as it's portrayed and how it actually feels, delving deep into fulfillment, values, and the “art of living.” Academy Award-winning actor and author Matthew McConaughey joins Tom Bilyeu to discuss why so many people lose themselves chasing conventional success, how to recalibrate towards joy and significance, and the lessons behind his book and upcoming ‘Art of Living’ event.

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2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Illusion of Success vs. True Fulfillment

• The Problem with Chasing Headlines
  • "The headline that I chased was always different than I thought it was going to be once I got there... we constantly update our iOS for what we call happiness." (Matthew, 02:43)
  • Conventional milestones (wealth, fame, achievement) rarely deliver the expected “ta-da” moment.
  • Lasting satisfaction comes more from being obsessed with the process than fixated on results.

The Pursuit “Ought”: Meaning and Direction

• What Should We Be Optimizing For?
  • Tom discusses the ideas of passion and honorable pursuits (04:08).
  • Matthew differentiates between real “oughts” and mere “maybes” in life, advocating that projecting a better self, chasing transcendence, and leaning into delayed gratification are part of the package (04:41–05:18).
  • There’s value in chasing after something even if the reality never fully matches the original vision.
    • “If you got the eight because you went for the 10... bravo.” (Matthew, 05:55)

Religion, Aspiration, and Humility

• Faith as a Compass
  • Matthew’s belief in God provides humility and a drive to live closer to an ideal even without certainty about life after death (08:02–10:47).
  • “I’m chasing an immortal finish line with no proof that there is an immortal finish line.” (Matthew, 09:48)
  • Tom, though not religious, agrees that we all have a “God-shaped hole”—something bigger to strive towards (11:03).

Science vs. Art of Living

• Blending Structure & Intuition
  • Matthew describes the Art of Living as emerging from understanding the “science of satisfaction” (facts, techniques), which then lets life become an intuitive dance (12:44–14:16).
  • “You master the scales, then you can be creative... that’s when it becomes art.” (Tom, 14:16)

“Scales” for Life: Honest Self-Assessment

• Admit Lies, Then Clarify What Matters
  • Start with a “process of elimination”—admit self-deception before playing offense in life (16:11–17:05).
  • The world promotes quantifiable “more,” but there are 359 other lanes outside fame/wealth; define your own “more” in terms of values, depth, roots (17:16–18:28).

Universal Values According to Matthew

• Responsibility: “You can’t have true freedom without having responsibility.” (20:20)
• Gratitude: Leads to generosity and meaning, which in turn feeds true self-interest (20:33–21:11).
• Delayed Gratification: Investing in your future self and others (21:18–21:45).
• Forgiveness: Acts of accountability and genuine repentance turn former adversaries into “soldiers for you” (23:10–24:01).
• Accountability: “Just say what you can do and do what you say.”
  • Culturally, people avoid saying “no,” fearing it’s a put-down; however, honesty in refusal breeds trust and efficiency (24:42–26:11).

Risk, Career Reinvention, and Commitment

• Risk as Growth
  • Tom notes that people who can take big risks often have a secure home life (37:44).
  • Matthew admits he overvalues achievement, and preparation can become a weakness if it stops action (39:00–40:08).
  • “Sometimes just making a damn decision and committing to it is the best choice because indecisiveness... you can walk that tightrope forever.” (Matthew, 35:00)
  • Commitment brings freedom: “You don’t give yourself the out, you don’t give yourself the crutch.” (42:48–43:10).
• The Reverse Icarus Problem:
  • “We suffer from the reverse of the Icarus story... we think the wax is going to melt, but it’s not even close.” (44:03–44:12)
  • Limiting beliefs about risk are arrogance in disguise.

Family, Marriage, and Raising Kids

• Marriage Structure:
  • McConaughey’s wife’s “you go, we go” policy means the family is rarely separated, centering relationships over career (47:36–48:58).
  • “She doesn’t keep score on me... even though I don’t like coming back with my proverbial tail between my legs.” (49:31)
• Wolves, Renegades, and Creators:
  • Matthew ascribes his sense of independence to being a “wolf”—preferring singular experiences and full responsibility (49:53–51:44).
• Parenting with Values:
  • The family eats dinner together nightly, fostering gratitude and delaying gratification; McConaughey’s children earn, don’t deserve, privileges (66:22–69:48).
  • Social media: Kids aren’t allowed yet. When the time comes, they must present their case to their parents and demonstrate responsibility.
    • “Make sure... you or your perceived popularity, what’s wagging who?” (64:21)
  • On entitlement: "Yes, we inherently get backstage passes... Sometimes I want my kids to wait in line." (69:11)

Navigating Social Expectations and Sincerity

• Authenticity Over Image:
  • “Cool is being yourself. That’s a damn hard thing to do, though.” (32:58)
  • Distinguishes “nerds” (authentic) from “dorks” (seeking approval).
  • Highlights the danger of self-concept hinging on external opinions (62:46–63:13).

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Destination Illusion:
  • “The headline that I chased was always different than I thought it was going to be once I got there... we constantly update our iOS for what we call happiness.” —Matthew McConaughey (02:43)
• On the Immortal Finish Line:
  • “I’m chasing an immortal finish line with no proof that there is an immortal finish line.” —Matthew McConaughey (09:48)
• On Responsibility and Freedom:
  • “You can’t have true freedom without having responsibility.” —Matthew McConaughey (20:20)
• On Risk:
  • “Sometimes just making a damn decision and committing to it is the best choice because indecisiveness... you can walk that tightrope forever.” —Matthew McConaughey (35:00)
• On Limiting Beliefs:
  • “We suffer from the reverse of the Icarus story... we think the wax is going to melt, but it’s not even close.” —Matthew McConaughey (44:03)
• On Gratitude and Value:
  • “If you’re more thankful for something in your life, you give it more value... it therefore has more meaning.” —Matthew McConaughey (20:33)
• On Authenticity:
  • “Cool is being yourself. That’s a damn hard thing to do, though.” —Matthew McConaughey (32:58)
• On Parenting and Entitlement:
  • “Earn, don’t deserve. You don’t deserve anything... You have to live up to whatever’s needed once you’re in the door.” —Matthew McConaughey (69:47)
• On Social Media and Identity:
  • “You can’t chase that number. That number’s not real. It’s a great exercise to go through him with, though... Who am I and what do I care about in life?” —Matthew McConaughey (65:32)

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4. Important Timestamps

• What People Get Wrong About Success: 02:17–03:47
• Definition of 'Ought' and Aspiration: 04:39–06:54
• Faith/Religion’s Role in Fulfillment: 08:02–10:56
• Science vs. Art of Living: 12:42–14:16
• How to Start: Admit the Lies: 16:11–17:05
• Responsibility, Gratitude, Delayed Gratification: 19:43–21:45
• Risk, Commitment & Indecision: 34:52–36:12
• The Icarus and Limiting Beliefs Analogy: 44:03–45:43
• On Marriage and Family Policy (“You go, we go”): 47:36–48:58
• Social Media & Parenting: 63:13–65:46
• On Teaching Values at the Dinner Table: 66:20–67:49

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5. Flow, Style, and Tone

The conversation is candid, philosophical, and tinged with McConaughey’s trademark southern earnestness and humor. Tom Bilyeu facilitates an open, deep exchange—encouraging self-reflection, while McConaughey shares illustrative personal anecdotes, self-deprecating confessions, and a no-nonsense approach to values.

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6. Actionable Insights & Takeaways

• Obsess over the process, not just the results; fulfillment arises from engagement, not arrival.
• Take responsibility for your actions—freedom and gratitude are deeply connected to accountability.
• Define your own 'more'; don’t default to society’s metrics of success.
• Practice delayed gratification; be "cool to your future self."
• Risk-taking is essential, and failures are rarely as dire as we imagine.
• Commitment (in relationships, career, and personal development) brings true freedom.
• Foster authenticity and resist the urge to be what others want.
• Instill values in children through example, honest discussion, shared rituals, and setting boundaries around digital distractions.
• Examine and admit self-deceptions before charting your next move.
• Recognize that collective progress only comes from a foundation of healthy individuals.

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7. For More

• Find details on McConaughey’s Art of Living event and further resources at artoflivingevent.com.
• Read or listen to McConaughey’s Greenlights for more stories and practical wisdom.

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Transcript

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[Tom Bilyeu]

What's up guys? I'm really excited to have one of the most easygoing Academy Award winning actors back for another episode, Matthew McConaughey. He has one of the most stellar careers in Hollywood and recently rocked the world with his debut New York Times best selling book, Green Lights, which is

amazing by the way.

From his memorable speech at the Oscars to being awarded Philanthropist of the Year, Matthew has many lessons to share on what achieving success actually looks like. You think it's going to look like, but what it's actually like. And in this episode, Matthew shares why most people are focused on the wrong things and getting lost chasing success. We also talk about how his pursuit of success and living with purpose led to what he calls the art of living and his greatest satisfaction. Matthew also breaks down why he's the wolf, the renegade, and the creator and what that means for each and every one of us. If you enjoy this episode, please make sure to rate and review the podcast really is the best way to support us so we can get the show out to more people just like you trying to reach their full potential and become legendary. I'm Tom Bilyeux and welcome to Impact Theory.

You have been successful by virtually any metric that a human being can be successful. Fame, wealth, longevity of career, family. You seem joyful, but I have found that when most people go after success, they end up getting lost somewhere. So I'm curious, what do you think it is that people get wrong about success? Is it they don't have the right definition of it or they pursue it in the wrong way? Like how is it that so many people get lost?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I think probably because the destination isn't what they thought it was going to be. I think it very rarely is even in things that I've succeeded in that have fulfilled me. The headline that I chased was always different than I thought it was going to be once I got there. Oh, once I get there, it's going to feel like this and it's going to mean this. It's going to be some sort of ta da moment. Oh, I did it. Which is never true because we constantly update our iOS for what we call happiness. For every peak, we seem to get to the top of where joy is more of, I believe the, the, the, the, the, the doing what you're fashioned to do and enjoying the process. And I, I've got thankfully some proof in my life that I got more results when I was a. Got obsessed with the process than I did when I was chasing the results.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So hiding in that is a sense of there is a thing that you should be pursuing. Or maybe even ought is the right word. What is that highest level thing that people should be optimizing for? Is it joy? Fulfillment? Accomplishment? Hard work?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Look, I'm a, I'm a big goal chaser, headline writer. I need accomplishment. I need achievement for my own significance. When I don't have it, I do feel more insignificant. I think that's more of a weakness of my own spirit to feel maybe not as alive and as confident when I'm not achieving, but that's, that's, that's sort of another category.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Is it a weakness though? Like this to me is getting. What I'm really trying to drill down into is you. You have achieved so much at such a high level. You also seem joyful. No one knows but you what it's like to be inside your mind. But I would say that people necessarily need to work hard towards something that is what I call exciting and honorable needs to exc you, but it needs to elevate you and other people. And when I think about what one ought to do, that's what I'm always like, that's what you ought to do.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And I like the word ought.

I think it's fair for us as mortals to say, hey, we can call

an ought, not just a maybe. I think there is rites of passage to an ought. I think we're an evolved enough species

to say no, there is a right and a wrong.

There's a better path and not so good path.

There is a transcendent self, at least

to chase a better self, a projection. I think it's fair to project and believe in a Delayed gratification that no,

I want my life to have some escalation. I know it's going to have its downs enough, but I want to have

at the end at least to have

a small ramp or what the hell are we doing here?

Or what is evolution? You know, so at least to chase

after that I, I, I find myself, I call it oversee. And it's, it's, it helps me and

it's, it's helped me with satisfaction and it's given me a lot of joy,

but it also, I'm still have to wrangle it, get a handle on it.

What I mean is I have such high expectations of others, of myself, of a piece of art, of what a place is going to be like that I'm going to vacation. And it never lives up to what my imagination is. And

intellectually I'm quite sound and going, well, if you got the eight because you went for the 10, and if you went for the eight, you might

have just got a six, maybe a best seven. So bravo.

Or you trusted the person more fully than maybe he or she trusted you, but in doing so you allowed them to trust you more. So actually it formed a more reciprocal relationship and allowed a deeper and better

relationship and was more successful for the both of us than if I would have. Would if I would have gone in trusting less.

But reality very seldom lives up to

the idea I'm chasing. And in my own reality very seldom lives up to what I'm chasing.

I'm just still working on shaking hands with, well, bravo. That's as good as it gets. You don't get to, you're not going to get to that 100%. You're not going to reach that perfection. And you know what? Sometimes A minuses and B's and C's in class are. That's pretty damn good if you got a real measurement.

And 100 and a plus is like, whoa, that's utopia. That's eureka. That's heaven on earth.

And being. How quickly can I go, all right, there's nothing else I can do now. I'm happy with that result.

Let's see how I scored.

So, I mean, I think at least

we all, we all bend in need of something, whether that's our past, our future, our children, our transcendence of our better self, or God. And I think that's, you know, as a religious person who believes in God,

am I trying to live more in

God's likeness as I, as far as I understand it, yes, sir.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Well, before you move on from that I'd be very curious to know. So in this came up in the vein of like okay, we're trying to optimize our life. There is a thing that we ought to be doing. I am not religious but I find that it is an incredibly useful tool for a lot of people in terms of giving their life framework. So when you think about bending the knee to God what does that mean exactly? What ideal does that represent?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Seeing a beauty that is immortal that man had nothing to do with in all living things and in people. Seeing a. A major capacity and potential in people and in myself. Seeing past weeds that are all over in myself in people and and seeing a beauty on the other side and then getting the person seeing seeing people realize that in themselves. I don't know if I have no proof no one does that there's going to be life after this life but I'm and I'm not looking forward to leaving this life. But I'm damn excited about what might happen when it's time. It humbles me in a way that it gives me great confidence where it didn't used to. It used to humble me in a way that maybe I felt more lowly or my head would bow down and my shoulders would slump.

I believe it helps me try to

the ought to aspire to more what I ought to be more daily and

be on that be on that grind

or when it's easy to enjoy that downhill and go yes doesn't have to be or you don't have to break a sweat all the time. It can be easy to see the beauty and to. And to to get a reciprocal reaction from the world. When the world's in reverb and is given back what I'm giving out. That's when I feel when I'm not objectifying the world either or people is when I feel like I'm in closer living closer to God's likeness.

I'm chasing an immortal finish line with

no proof that there is an immortal finish line. And even if you scrap it down to and I have had my agnostic years atheist years and have many close friends that are both but even if I scrap it down to if I'm

wrong oh let me retrograde that I'll think I would have do it different. You know what I mean? I think it's still a compass that

helps is hopefully helping me be for lack of a better term the best man I can be day to day for the things that I value the most and they keep my belief in God keeps me Striving for that and

keeps me humble and sort of sober to not be overly flattered or impressed with the wonders of mortality which I see every day.

And I'm like, wow. See people do create art, something that's better and different than I could do

it to be able to go wow. But go oh, that's just a mortal thing. That's just, oh, that's something that we're

doing in this little blip of time we're in. So it gives me great courage I

think as well when I am most

spiritually sound, which is not always.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, I think everybody struggles to stay on the straight and narrow. But the thing that I find interesting about religion, I think everybody, myself included, has a God shaped hole in their heart. And I've heard Jordan Peterson quote Carl Jung in saying that basically Christ, while all about mercy, ultimately comes back as a judge. And that Jung was saying that the point there is that any ideal that you're striving towards, right, none of us are going to be Christ, but we can aspire to be Christ. Like and it gives you, I actually really like the definition that you were giving about your faith. Gives you something that allows you to see who you could be through the weeds and to see that beauty of creation, humanity, the transcendent. And at first I thought you were going to get into like that. It's about awe and just being kneel in the face of awe. And there actually is, I think wisdom to that. But there's something even more profound about what you were saying, if I'm interpreting you correctly, that you know, whatever it is that you're trying to achieve in life, it is going to be difficult. There are going to be hard times. And I've heard you say something that I think is very powerful, which is never see yourself as a victim. And so as we're all going through this life and things are getting difficult and you're trying to hold on to that image of what you could be, of what life could be and you're getting lashed by, you know, the, the reaches of the jungle, but that whether it's religion or just what one ought to do, that you have a very clear vision of what it is on the other side to keep you pushing through all that. Now you have an event coming up called the Art of Living. Is that what you mean?

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's sure part of it.

It's not a, not, not that you have to be a believer in the art to achieve the art of living. It's, it's based on this event that we're going to do on the 24th is. Is I believe there's a science to satisfaction. So there's the science and that's the knowledge. And once we learn to make choices that will measurably pay us back, give us more residuals for longer term, for longer time in life, we start to fall into that wise place of being able to navigate the art of living, where life becomes a little bit more of a dance, where we see the context, we see the innuendo, and we see the subtlety. And we have to make a choice and both can look the same. And it's like, what am I going

to call an audible here?

I've got a playbook from the Science of Satisfaction. But what's my choice? We start to work off intuition. It goes from the intellect down into the body, and that's when it becomes an art. That's an individual practice, I think, for everybody. But what we're going to do on the 24th is dive deeper into the sort of the digits, the actual measurable tools of how to get more satisfaction life. So you can get into the art of living, which is an art in facts and face the facts and the science. That's the science of satisfaction, the fate. And that's what the world's doing without our doing.

When our hands, whether our hands on the wheel or not, where that road

goes and how to navigate it, that becomes the art.

But the two are not a con,

not are not a contradiction.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Now, when I think about the great artists and music, especially for somebody living in Austin, seems like a great example. So if you want to be an incredible musician, one of the things you're going to spend a lot of time on are scales. So you're going to be. Once you master that, you master the instrument and the finger movements. I'm assuming one's playing good guitar in this analogy, and you master all of that stuff, then you can express yourself, then you can be creative, Then you can, as you're saying, create that art. So when it comes to the art of living, what are the scales? What are the things that people can practice? Obviously I've read your book, which is tremendous green lights for anybody that hasn't read it yet. Really amazing. Listen to the audiobook. It is unbelievable. But in that you give a lot of these sort of like, look at things this way. Try this, what you were calling your bumper stickers. What are some of the things that you think for somebody that really wants to. To do the dance of life? Well, what are some Ideas that they should hold on to that will allow them to dance well.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So where green lights was an approach

book, as you said. Hey, approach this. Have a new perspective maybe with how to look at this or that. Our red lights and our green lights and yellow lights in life. What we're going to try and get into in the 24th is talk about Morgan. The process of it. I think the process right now, especially coming out of a universally disrupted, foggy last few years with COVID disrupted our lives to some extent.

Things seem to be clearing up. A little bit of fog is clearing up. We can at least make some plans and projections a little further down the

road than we were able to, no

matter where we were.

Whether we couldn't trust in a plan either from ourselves or someone else much longer. I couldn't go much further than five days over the last few years.

But that projection's extending and we can make plans that I think we can

trust on further out.

I think we need to start with what I'm calling.

We have to start admitting more, not judging, admitting. Let's get rid of the lies.

Process of elimination first before we get

on with playing offense. Let's admit the lies that we tell ourselves. Let's admit the lies that we believe that the world tells us.

Let's admit the ones that we keep

under our vest for our own convenience because they kind of been getting away with them and they kind of been.

Let's just admit that. Don't judge it. Not saying so I can lay the hammer on you and go, you see, you son of a bitch. I'm not saying that and I'm not. And I don't think any of us

should be doing that to ourself right now.

So there is a bit of amnesty and just admit it.

Don't.

Just. Let's admit the lies that we tell.

We believe in the Kool Aid we

know we're drinking, the candy we know we're eating, but we like to call

it broccoli because, hey, it gives us some identity and some sense of purpose. Let's clean the slate there first. And then I think we need to

define what we want. More of the world tells us every day it's a. It's more is quantifiable only. There's a lane. There's a. There's 360 degrees.

That lane that is vertical is packed with traffic.

Everybody wants on that lane. We're being told, retail therapy, success, more money.

It's the only way to win this life.

Got no problem with any of that but there's 359 other lanes in the

degrees of 360 that have a lot less traffic on them that also have a lot more qualitative value to them.

So where can we scale wider? Where can roots go deeper? What define what we want more of? Yeah we all need to pay our rent. But I'm sure you know and I know, I know a lot of people with more money than anyone else, the most money in the world and they are have some major gaps in their

own sense of joy.

And a lot of them people will admit it in the last years of

their life and go oh what was I doing? Why did I pack the U haul behind the hearse?

You know. So can we define our own more what we, what we value the most and make sure that we're given that we're tending those gardens as well. And it may it's going to be individual and those values that scale will change through life. My values are different now that I

have kids than before I had kids.

They are things, things move up in different levels on the from from 1 to 10. So then defining our more defining what we value big on big on values.

I think values are the way forward if we can define that and also re.

Re. Re rewrite our social contracts which are

very murky right now. What we can expect from ourselves and each other without signing the paper.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah because I agree with you on values. I think they're incredibly important. I'm constantly trying to get people to understand something I call frame of reference. So your frame of reference is how you see the world. It's like a fun house mirror that you have self warped to show you the world in the way that matches up with what you believe, what you value your routines and the rules in your life. But anyway most people values is probably the most important. What are the values that you think that we should be aligning around? You've talked a lot about sort of seeing yourself as minister of culture and I've heard you talk very well about like Austin and we need to define certain rules. What do we do? What don't we do? I'd love to hear like just at a high level what you think us humans like what is the closest thing to a universal value system that will lead to fulfillment is my word.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But yeah okay. I'm still writing out these what I think would be fair to have have in the algorithm for universally and I'm open for things to be added look

one that is consistent that I that

I always come back to that I think we could all shake hands with more is a certain responsibility and how

[Tom Bilyeu]

our freedom like taking responsibility.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah a personal responsibility and

how you

can't have true freedom without having responsibility. Gratitude I, I, I, I, I believe gratitude is something that if you're thankful, more thankful for something in your life

you give it more value.

It therefore has more meaning and when it means more you take care of it and you scale it and you're more generous.

Gratitude actually leads to more generosity and I also the end point which I want to come back to I'll come back to again and again and again. That value as well as many others

is the most self serving value. So I have a lot that I

believe that all, I believe all these values that we need to be the

more truly selfish we are to serve ourselves the more we can actually serve others more self less we can be.

We just have to get those we,

we see those as a contradiction, delayed gratification. Some would say it's a sign of

maturity it's just an investment in ourself to just believe in ourself enough to project to say I'm going to pass

up the plastic ring today for the gold crown tomorrow.

I'm going to maybe make a sacrifice today for a Monday off instead of the Friday off if I'm getting a long weekend. Give yourself the, give yourself the extra win the freedom, be cool to your

future self on the back end the

long money whether it's investment, something for our kids or thinking about another the next generation or what we would do. I had this little simple situation the other day. I pull in, I'm going down the

road out here, there's traffic, it's five

o' clock traffic car's pulling in from off onto the highway. I let this car in a few

cars behind me honked the horn, I let her. It's a woman.

We drive for 10 minutes. I'm going home. This woman in this car remains in front of me.

I go to my house, I pull in my house, I see she pulls in next door. She's next door neighbor.

I get out of my car, she gets out of her car, she yells over hey Matthew, thanks for letting me in. You need anything, let me know. So ultimately letting her in was the selfish act. I got someone who's looking over my house, checking out my property, looking out

for me next door.

I didn't do it because of that. But you're invisibly, you don't know when you're creating a sort of an army of soldiers There's a way we can act where you can, and I'm not gonna do. Some would call it karma, but there's actions and choices we can make. Where you're building goodwill out there that

will serve you the most.

Even though someone say, well, that's a selfless act.

Well, ultimately I think it's a selfish act. If you redefine selfish, which I'm trying

to do, responsibility, how that leads to freedom, gratitude, how it leads to generosity,

Risk taking is one, forgiveness is another.

If you get real repentance from the person who persecuted you, that measure, David Brooks talks about it. You know, if I do you wrong, it's first year. I think it's first year step to come to me and go, hey, that wasn't cool. You picked my pocket.

We. We had a deal and you screwed me over.

Now I have to either go, yeah, so it's a character trait. So don't, don't, don't, don't do anymore. Don't deal with me anymore. Or I have to really repent and

go, geez, you're right.

And if I convince you that I'm really, truly sorry for that, now you get to not only forgive me, but go, come on now. I'm a soldier for you. I'm a soldier for you.

So forgiveness is actually really selfish in that. In. In that, in that situation often as

well, I would say, look, I think we can all be a little bit more accountable to each other.

We are.

It's so easy.

No one's embarrassed anymore about over leveraging themselves.

And I'm always saying, dude, just say what you can do and do what you say. If you can't do it, just say you do me a favor by just letting me know. No, that's not for me.

Thank you, bro.

I just checking. You know, we don't like to hear no, no, please tell me no instead of walking my dog with these yeses but never following through on it, you're doing me a favor and I'm not going to be upset with you. So. So to be more to. To admit what we can and can't

[Tom Bilyeu]

do, where do you think that comes from? The inability to say no? Is it the discomfort of not being able to do something for you? Is it like Hollywood? So I'm sort of tangentially bumping into Hollywood. And one thing I find, they never just say no.

[Matthew McConaughey]

They won't. One says yes, and then if it's a no, they just don't show. And you're like, dude, you could have just told Me? No. There's somebody else I wanted to invite, but now you just did, you know, showed on me, you know, and always I try to practice. I'm a no until I'm a yes. Because I don't want to over leverage and go, you don't know if he's

going to show up or not.

I don't like it when it's done to me. Where does that come from? Look, in some cultures know is a put, they consider a put down. I was just in Vietnam. They never say no. The furthest they get is they go, maybe because it leaves it leaves it ambiguous. And if they don't follow up on it, you can't really condemn them. But a no in Vietnam is a put down.

It's like, oh, you just lowered me

to a lower level of humanity than

you by declining what I offered. I think we should embrace the reality of no much more quickly.

My favorite friends, the ones that we have less mendacious talks, the ones that I can trust, the ones that I respect the most. Other ones are, I'm like, hey, man, this project, I really think driving. They're like, look at. They're like, dig it, man. Not for me.

I'm like, oh, thank you.

We don't have to bullshit each other with all the extra words and walk the dog and carry it. Put a flag on that email because I got to follow up on that. But I'm not quite ready to say no. So I'm going to flag it again and let's get a chain going back and forth. Tom, when you should have said in six months later, tell. You know, when you're like, dude, why

didn't you just tell me back in March? It would have been easy. I wasn't going to take it personally.

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[Tom Bilyeu]

Do you think some of that comes from people don't know. They don't know who they are. They don't know what they want. I find that a lot of it come like the Hollywood thing is different. I think they're not sure what's going to work and so or who's going to be hot. So they want to make sure they leave all doors open. But I think a lot of times people are, they don't have clarity themselves about what they want. They're trying to do too many things. They haven't narrowed down their focus. This is my own. Like, I am very much talking to myself here. It is so hard for me to go, okay, there's 99 doors I could go through and only one that I should go through. And it's very hard to shut all of those doors.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes, it is. And I understand keeping options open, but there's a way to keep options open that's not at the expense of tooling someone else along, whether it's in a relationship or a business. And it's even fine to say that

that thing that we think, oh, I

bet this other person doesn't have 99 doors open like I do.

When the fact is they probably do

have 99 doors like you do that they're keeping open.

So when you tell them, hey, in the context of this situation, I got this, this and this and this going as well and we only got 24 hours a day and I got to measure what gap because if I do this, I want to be fully in.

I'm going to be fully committed.

I don't want to half ass it if I do it. So let me, to be fair to you, let me, I need some time to measure this and then to come back and go, man, I took this other opportunity. I don't have room for the one

you have offered me.

It's hard to say, but that person respects you more when you do that and I respect that more when that's done to me.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So looking at your own career, you've done some hard rights. I always find it fascinating with people that have had longevity like you've had where it's, you've reinvented yourself multiple times. But, and you know, we talked last time we were together about the big one where you stopped doing rom coms. We don't have to retread that. But I'm curious, as you move into this year, what you're doing with the art of living. Getting into the, you know, the how one. The art of living. Just really helping people with wisdom that you've acquired over the years. But, man, like, that's a, that's a new phase. So how do you think about that as you go from one phase to the next? Is it sit down, meditate, talk to the family, run numbers like. Or is it gut intuition? God told me, like, how do you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's a little of all that. And thank you for that list.

And I think that list could even go on. Look, man, you know, and I look in the mirror and go, you know what, what do we. Things were going really well. What did you just hopped up and decided, do you want to, you know, hadn't made a movie in four years. Yeah, I did. Am I going? Is it. Would some call that a midlife crisis? I don't. Call it what you want.

I, I may have talked to you

about this the last time, but with the challenge that I found myself instinctually putting on myself is this, I was

like, it's why it's part of the

writing of the book.

I go act.

I'm going through five filters. Someone else's character, someone else's story directed by someone else, lensed in a camera by someone else and edited by someone else. That's five filters from my raw expression.

I was really wanting to go, what's the. My raw expression? Well, writing a book is one filter. It's a written word. Right now we're filterless, even though we're

virtually talking to each other.

It's direct communication.

It's stand up. Is a direct communication.

No filter. But this going through now, I, I, I, I trying to challenge myself and

instinctually been challenged myself.

Say, look, man, the big movie, McConaughey, the big show is the one that was called action, was called once when you were born, and cut's going to be called once when you leave this life. That's the big show. We're all in that.

We're all the main character in our

own show, and it is being recorded by the hands of time. Who, who are you in this, in this, in this, in the show called Life, McConaughey, what do you give a damn about? I'm doing my bet right now. My highest value is my family. If I go there, I know I can't go wrong. If I spend time 10 in that garden, I know I can't go wrong.

And I got 18 years to do it with each kid. And I know that's going to go by fast. And that also means trying to be

the best husband I can to my wife. I, I truly believe if I go there, I cannot go wrong. Is that enough to get me off every day? To make me feel completely significant?

No.

I still have creative juices in me

that I'm like, I gotta do. I gotta create something, a piece of art.

I gotta dispatch something, I gotta put something out, tell a story. I'm a think I'm a pretty good storyteller. Gone and do it through other characters. What about, what if I was? What story am I telling? I write every day. Something comes. I don't have a time where I

sit down and write 24 7.

Some of my best ideas come at

2 in the morning.

Definitely argue actually the truth that my

best money making ideas come after midnight.

But the best. And then I'll go and I'll look

at everything and go, all right, you

wrote for three years. Have a look. What are the themes? Some of the new themes that I found that I want to share are

having to do with defining things. We're talking about admit values. How do we get more joy?

How do we get more balance? How do we, how are we more cool? And re. I love redefining words.

I don't mean cool like, hey man,

be cool, I'm cool. Cool is being yourself. That's a damn hard thing to do though. But boy, if we can do it. Whenever you hear me talk about Austin, that's the DNA of Austin. Just be yourself, man. And that DNA is getting tested now. But that's, that's, that's what I love about a people. That's what I love about people. That's why I like nerds more than dorks. A nerd knows who they are, man. They're on the front row making straight A's in math and arguing about Star Trek and shit. Great, that's cool. A dork's different. Dork tries to be the something to everybody. And they'll be whatever they think you want them to be. Oh man, I don't, I don't like hanging around with that person. I can't trust them. They're fair weather on everything.

I even appreciate an asshole more than a door.

At least I stand, you know, so I'll gather, I'll gather my stuff, see what the themes are. And now I'm aligning those and starting

to figure out the best way to share them and share them with the world and hopefully people Find them entertaining and maybe helpful.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, if it's anything like your book, I have no doubt that it will be. I want to talk about risks and indecisions. So one of your values is risk. You want to see people take more risk. I'm. I will assume that you calculated something that has intention. But what I find is most people. So partly is the fear of the risk so they don't move. But part is that when they have all these different things as they're trying to make a decision about how to reinvent themselves, what to do next, they're not pushed enough in any one direction. Now I have a rule in my life that says I can make a mistake, that's fine, but I can't stand still. And so that's really helped me now. It's caused me to make some mistakes before. But when you look at my life in totality, the level of success that I've had is because I never allow myself to stand in indecision. Do you have a similar rule like, how do you finally get over the finish line with something?

[Matthew McConaughey]

First of all, damn it, if not

at least 99, maybe 199 out of 200 times might be the percentage.

The real rubber of the road of

if it fails is never as dire as we presume it was going to be. I've also found consistently that those people that do nana nana boo boo ya when you fall on your ass are

on the sidelines for a reason. That the real heavyweights that you want to be around, that I know I want to be around are usually right there helping you up or stand next

to you and going, me too, man. Nice try.

Shits.

I What's. What's the next move here? And you're like, oh, yeah.

And that. That's not misery. Loves company.

That's actually, I think, more success, or maybe there's a better word, loves the company

making a decision. I've wrote about this in the book.

I do think, and I've had to push myself to do this. Sometimes just making a damn decision and committing to it is the best choice

because not moving that indecisiveness between two things, that limbo.

You can walk that freaking tightrope forever

and you think it's going to last a week, and then it's a month and a year and a decade, and then you're looking up and you're going 15 years later going, I haven't moved. I said, we opened up the talk on this subject. I know for me, man, most things that I went after that headline, I chased that decision. I ranked that risk I took. When I got there, the headline was not the same, or I took a feeder on the road. But just the movement to make the choice to jump and not fall, to affirmatively take it just gets things in motion again, man. And all of a sudden, when things are emotion, now we're mobile, as you were talking about. We can call audibles on the way. We can meet somebody that is a new opportunity because it just shifted it. And I know it's like putting WD40. I can have stuff in my life that gets stuck and starts getting rusty. And it's like, no, man, just make a move. I don't know which one will and make one. It's not in either one. And often that happens when you look either decision that you think one is paramount and one's not. There's not that big of a difference. There's not as much of a dichotomy or contradiction between the two damn decisions we're measuring all the time as much as we make it to be. And back to the beginning, it's the wrong one. The people you give a damn about forgive you for it real quickly. And they're like, at least you were in the game. At least you weren't on the saddle. Yeah, come on, I'm in it too. There's room on the field for the people that you want to be playing with.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think there is so much in what you just said. So there's two things I want to try to tease out there. So, one, there's this idea of the people that take the biggest risks are the people with the biggest. The most secure home life. And so I find it interesting that it seems like you have a very stable home life from both the relationship that you had with your parents, your siblings, to your wife, your kids. You talk a lot about that. So I have to imagine that somewhat plays into it. The thing I say to myself is, look, if I lost everything, if I have my wife, I'm still good. And then the idea that the. The failure is never as bad as you think it's going to be. And so when I think about what would make a failure bad, it, it's because you value yourself for the achievement rather than the pursuit. Do you think about that? Like, so even when you say you have like this cheeky look on your face of like, you know, even if it doesn't play out, and I can see that you like the. The tightrope walk of like, really trying something that has a Shot at failing. So what going back to values, what do you value yourself for? Is it achievement? Is it pursuit? Is it something else entirely?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I think I overvalue achievement.

I value achievement more than I'd like

to, more than I wish I needed for my own significance.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You said to admit it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. And at the same time, I, I'm not boo, I'm not poo pooing that I, that I, that. That I'm ambitious and want achievement. I'm glad I have. I like goals. I'm glad. I like to chase things down.

Greatest strengths can seem to be greatest weaknesses. I get.

Preparation is one of my greatest strengths.

I also think I'm like, sometimes, like, as we started off the conversation, man, I can point, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim. Before I shoot, I'm like, shoot, bro. Go. Take the shot. Who cares? Take the shot. You're prepared, you know, so I can, I feel like I can because I can prepare forever. I'm never get tired of preparing. I can go prepare for the rest of my life, for one thing, and feel like I still could use more time. So I think it can keep me

sometimes from taking a risk.

So I have to catch myself and go, dude, you got it. Let's figure out this out on the field. Let's get it in the game. Let's get live.

Let's make that choice, that affirmative move

and play it live.

As much as I like to prepare, I do take. I do, I do, I do. I do take risk, though.

But I, When I'm best, when I most myself, it is the pursuit, because I don't like landings anyway. I like entrances and exits. I do not like.

I cannot stand destinations. It's never, it's, it's never fulfilling to me.

It's never, it's, you know, the entrepreneurial spirit of me hops up and wants to go, oh, no, create a better reality. Yeah, that's not good enough. And I have to go, whoa, whoa, that's, that's, that's pretty high level for reality, bro. Appreciate that. Go back to the gratitude.

Whoa.

Go back, level out. Because, I mean, that's a big balance, isn't it? Got to be able to get, hopefully be. Get off to reality enough to not go insane. But at the same time, if we're not impressed, create our own impressions, which is the entrepreneurial spirit. And that's part of that, I think another art of living for people that are. That are. That are. That maybe are achievers. Where do you balance that? Where do you keep updating the iOS to go, I'm going to create a better reality or I'm going to keep chasing that. And where do you go, man? I just need to look the world in the eye, it's flat and see the beauty in it. And a lot of times that's where

the inspiration will come for me when

I can level and go, oh, it's

right in front of you, man.

Just do it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Because I have a feeling that what we are all really doing is you're vacillating between, I really want to go hard for this, saying, I really want to achieve it. You're giving into that. And then you realize, okay, now that's starting to be too much. I need to be awed by the beauty of this. I need to remember what my deal is. My deal has to do with family and values and all that. And then as that resettles and your foundation feels firm again, then it's like, okay, I can dream again and I can push myself. But I think it is that. I mean, you called it a dance earlier. You really are like, you want to push it until it's like, oh, maybe this is a little too stressful or a little too much risk. And so now I'm going to back off. But the people that break and give up or that they, you know, they touch the hot stove and they're like, I won't even cook again. It's like that to me would be the wrong response to a problem.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm with you 100%. I believe

that we quit as people too quick. Now, I think that's one of our big faults is we quit too quick.

Oh, it gets a little hot.

Oh, the relationship gets a little off.

Oh, I'm out.

We pull the parachute a little too quick and. And I.

You can't commit fully to everything.

There are some relationships that shouldn't last. There are some pursuits in our career that you go, no, I got to pivot.

Take another thing.

But commitment to get obsessed with making something work is a. Is a wonderful freedom because you don't.

When you give yourself the non negotiable, you don't give yourself the out. You don't give yourself the crutch. You don't give yourself the net to fall in. If you do fall, you could you,

you, I don't know you.

I find I fall and kind of hop back up or. Or I don't fall at all because my feet are off the ground. I'm actually flying.

I love that.

I think we suffer from the reverse

of Icarus story more Than we do Icarus's story about it. Whoa.

[Tom Bilyeu]

For people that don't know that story, hit him with it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. So Icarus takes his son flying, and

then he's an angel, right? I guess he's got the wings and

wax on his wings. And the sun went to go. I'm gonna go up there close to the sun. Icarus is like, whoa, it's too, too hot up there. When the sun doesn't listen, flies too close. The sun. The sun s u n melts the

wax on his boy's wings.

And so the boy falls back down

to earth and into the ocean. And you know what that moral of that story is?

Hey, hey, hey, hey. Don't.

Don't fly too high.

Keep going.

I think we suffer from the opposite. I think we get up there and we think it's getting hot and our

wax on our wings is going to melt.

And it's only 50 degrees Fahrenheit. It's like it's not close to the wax, isn't even close to melting. Man. What are we talking about?

We put these mortal lids on our. Our capacities all the time.

And it's actually arrogant of us. I think it's extremely arrogant of us to do that. Rather than being, oh, no, no, no, That's.

That's.

I want too much.

I need to be humble. No, I think it's arrogant to say no, That's.

That's.

That. That's enough. That's. That's. That's as high as the roof can be.

That's as much as I can do.

And what about happens? We choke. We. We. We. We get nervous, we fumble at the goal line, and you're like, dude, you're at the field. What do you mean? You know, you know, I love that. This for sports analyst Bo Jackson. He didn't run just across the goal line. He ran across the goal line, through the end zone and through the tunnel.

You know, that, that, that, that.

If we. That's what I mean when I talk

about immortal finish lines.

If we put the. If we understand that the finish line's way on the other side, it's not

even what we can conceive and perceive that's mortal. It's measurable. That's. That's not even close to the real finish line. Boy, all of a sudden, the task

feels more like an experience or an experiment. And I'm able to be much more in the process. When I feel like that finish line's way out of my sight line, I can't even imagine it And I'm able to do whatever it is I'm doing better. Because I don't even think I can get to the result. That's the point right there. Because I don't even think I can

get to the result.

The actual result. Unreachable. Well, great. So let me just chase it and see how close I can get to

it by the end of my life.

That, that, that's. That's what I mean by when I say earlier oversee.

That's what I mean by that's when I feel like it's all the pursuit, all the process.

That's when I'm happiest or I have

more joy and getting more done and look around and valuing more correctly the things in my life.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Why is that?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Those stable things in our life that we do have up above, that we know, as you said, your wife, that will. We'll be fine. We just take care of that. Sometimes they need us to just.

Hey, quit looking over my head. Just, just, just look, look. Look at me right here. World's flat, man. Our feet are on the ground. Gravity's real. Just, just. Hey, just want to sit here with you. Can we not think about what's around the next turn? Can we not think about doing anything funking better? Can we not think about how to

improve nothing for a second? Just sit here. And there's real value in that. And it can be. It can be hard. It can be hard on ourselves too.

But I sure do applaud the ambition of that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How do you keep that relationship with your wife so good? Is it. Do you guys have rules? Is it just quality time? Is there some magic there?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I don't know if there's magic, but

she's always.

We've always rooted, rooted for what is essentially what we love about the other.

That.

That I had even before I met her. That she had even before she met me.

We do have some structure.

That science of satisfaction. She has created some science that at least doesn't let us get too far into the red. Meaning, like when I go to work on a project somewhere before we ever had kids, she goes, you want to have kids? I said, yes, ma'.

Am.

She goes, okay, one rule. You go, we go.

That means.

What does that meant? Over 14 years, that has meant. The longest I've been away from my family is nine days.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Wow.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I know. I even say that. I'm like, wow. And that's her doing. That's her going, that's how it's gotta. That's how it's going. To be big, some would say big sacrifice for it.

Yes.

But doing it for our relationship in the family. And that has helped because I do get obsessed and just want to go fly.

And she does help me. When I go out the door or

go to my office each day, she does help me go, don't look over your shoulder.

Go conquer.

Go fly. Go do it. I got things are handled back here. I've got it handled. If I need you, it'll be an emergency and I know where to find you. Oh, there's a great privilege and freedom that she, she gives me in that to go do what I need to do to, to, to be a wolf and a renegade and a creator is, is I like to be.

And then it takes patience because I'm not. I chase some things down that I don't end up, they don't end up adding up. And you look back and you go, it's easy for someone to go, well, let's prorate that last three weeks when you. I just let you go and nothing came of it. You know what I mean? She doesn't keep score on me. And go, that didn't count. So now you owe me because that one didn't come to fruition. She doesn't keep score on me, even though I don't like coming back with my proverbial tail between my legs going

swung and miss at that one.

You know what I mean?

But thanks for letting me go get obsessed with it for a while.

So we're pretty fair, I think, with each other. She's definitely fair with me.

Probably more fair than I am with her.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You said that you're a wolf, a renegade and a creator. What, what does that mean? And the one that I really want to know is wolf.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, wolfs, wolves go off on their own.

Wolves are also anti.

You know, you want to, you want, you want. Wolf's like a coyote. You want to get a wolf to, to do something, ask them, do the opposite. You know what I mean? I'm like, I tell directors of people I work with all the time. I said, dude, I'm easy to work with.

Just don't tell me what to do.

Suggest and let.

But, but, but, but if you and

I even tell them, if you can make me believe it's my idea and I even tell them, I'm giving you the trick, Steven. Just trick me. And I love to be tricked. And I'll go with it. Just make me think it's my idea. I love a singular experience when I'm

alone doing something intuiting something, having an experience.

When I'm with someone else, I sometimes have trouble getting that same full experience, but being able to go, oh, and it's with someone else. Sometimes I feel like, oh, I'm only

getting 50% because I had to reference

something with someone else or say, hey, what do you think? Or experience that. Even a sunset,

it's like. And I.

That's my own thing I gotta work on, because I should be able to when I'm. When I'm, When I'm. When I'm cooking in the gas, okay, When I'm catching green lights, I can have that full experience myself. With a million other people, it's still my individual experience, but I. I do sometimes have to block the whole rest of the world off and tell everyone, just get back, let me go find out.

I want to. I feel.

I want to feel like I. If this succeeds, I can look myself in the mirror and go, good job. I want to feel like if this fails, I can look in the mirror and go, that was on you. I want to. I want to know that. I just want to know one way or the other. And if we get too many cooks in the kitchen, I'm like, who's to blame? Then the distance didn't work? Or who's to herald that since it did work?

Do we.

There's a way to do that, but I still have to work on that.

And that's, I think, what I mean

[Tom Bilyeu]

by wolf, the renegade, obviously, I have a guess, not being confined, conforming to other things, but blazing your own path. Is there more to that? Or is that just. Is that innate to you? Is that what your parents taught you to be like? Is there a value in there?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, my parents were definitely outlaws.

I mean, they.

If you.

You read the book, he said, my mom made up all kinds of existential rules. That poet, that, that, that, that, that. That went in the seventh grade poetry contest when she gave me that poem that I didn't even write it. It wasn't mine. It was from Anne Ashberry. It was like, if all that I

would want to do would be to

sit and talk to you, would you listen? And I'd written in my own poem, which she looked at, and she was

like, yeah, that's all right.

But what about this?

And I read it.

She goes, you like that? And I go, I do like that. She goes, you understand it? What's it mean? I said, well, yeah, I do understand. Sometimes you just want to talk somebody. Just someone to listen to you. She was like, yeah, write That I went, what do you mean, but it's

no to poetry contest.

I got to say.

She goes, no, right, right. That I go, but this from Anne Ashbury. She goes, no. You understand it, right? It means something to you personally?

I went, yeah.

She goes, then it's yours. I write that poem Sign My Name,

won the seventh grade poetry contest.

So that's plagiarism. But that's. That was my mom's outlaw logic, was

from her stuff like that.

So I suppose part of the renegade comes from.

From them to. To. To think and make your own realities.

But I'm not, you know, the. The I'm. There's certain things that. That, that socially, politically, that we just all kind of. You look up one day and it's like, when did that become sort of status quo? Did I miss the class? That everyone just all of a sudden said, yeah, dude, that's business. That's politics. I mean, I know I had them over for Christmas. I know they spent time with my children, but now they lied about me and cheated and stole. But hey, that's just business. I'm not ready to shake hands with going, oh, that's just the way it is. When did that just become. Yeah, that doesn't go off. Those things don't go off my back like water off a duck's back, and I'm not ready to. And I think that's part of growing older though, too. What things do we start to forgive in the world and ourselves? Because as we get older, we understand it's not like young revolutionaries. It's not all black and white.

So we start to see the shades

of gray and all the different colors in the truth. And there's context and there's. There's both sides. Two things can be true. But the slippery slope where we can

go wrong with that is going from

skeptic to cynic, from going to. Oh, yeah, I don't really stand for anything because, yeah, it's all just relative and everyone can just. It's all personal. Everyone can just do. Define it their own way. I think that's a slippery slope. So what do we start to let go of? I know that's something that I'm constantly

challenged with as I'm growing up, and I'm 53 now. And me, like most people, don't want

to be that stodgy guy that's just still stuck and being all nostalgic about

the way it used to be or

anything like that, but also don't want also know that true progress doesn't mean

just saying yes to everything and throwing

everything in the past out. So again, I think it's more of

a paradox than a contradiction.

What are the tried and true tested

values from the past that will work in the future no matter what the future holds?

And how do we adapt and what do we accumulate and take on and

keep learning from that? We want to adapt in our lives.

[Tom Bilyeu]

When I think about where we're at, like you, I would like people to understand that everything's a trade off and that the goal one to what we were talking about earlier, we have to all decide what that thing is that we're optimizing for, which as you pointed out, we are not actually optimizing for. If we're paying lip service to it, we're doing a very poor job of actually measuring whether or not we're making progress and then getting people to. And I'll go in on your sports analogy here. Like, if what you're doing is working, your score will reflect it. And so I feel like we. And now I'm just stealing. Speaking of plagiarism from one of my favorite economists, a guy named Thomas Sowell, who said the last 30 years have been marked by exchanging what worked for what sounds good. And I get the temptation, I actually really get the temptation because like you want to do that thing that's like, no, man, I care about everybody and I want to see everybody win. But if you try it and it doesn't work, it's like then you have to be honest that there's more complexity. And, and actually now I'll quote you, you have a quote that I think sums up why we have some of the trouble that we have now, which is there's no way to have a collective society that's healthy without having an individual that's healthy. That's not exactly what you said, but I think that's the right idea. And that's why I like, if somebody were to ask me to go into politics, not in a million years, because we're. One, what you said does not sound fun to me to be in that kind of fight. And then two, I think the right way is to focus on the individual, get the individual living by a value system that makes sense, give them a belief system that's optimistic and gets them to believe that if they put time and effort into getting better at something, they will actually get better. What I think is what you mean by chasing yet, which is something that we should talk about. And so getting people in that mentality, taking responsibility, taking accountability Realizing they can get better at something, but they've got to put that time and energy into doing it. That's where I want to help people focus.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I, I'm with you 100%.

But again, if we can just project

a little further and believe in ourselves, which we have the capacity to do

in our own ability to think and approach things differently, maybe even just a day out, everyone's got a different projection level. At my best I can, I can try to get to my eulogy. Not there, not for long. Like comes back and usually can only go, you know, handles, hangs around a

couple months out, you know, or, or, or, or a couple years or 10 years out. Is it when I'm doing really good,

Some people, the projection of them. Maybe this afternoon. Great start there. Just to go an hour. If you can only go an hour ahead to project and make a little choice now based on that projection of what's going to pay me back, am I going to have more pleasure? How am I going to be cool? What decision can I make to be cooler to my future self in one hour, do that each hour. That would be incredibly helpful. And we, we don't seem to connect

to the, the, the, the lineage of

how our present decisions affect our future existence for ourselves individually.

Collective change only comes with an army of individual changes.

There are choices you made yesterday that are helping you be more calm, less stressed, and no shit's handled behind your back right now while you're present talking with me. You organize things, you prepared, you did certain things that are allowing you to be more present, to be more successful, that are helping you succeed like you want to do and ought to do. You can go back and find them. They're. They're choices we make. And we, again, we know the one.

We're not going to do it perfect,

but we know the ones that give

us the proverbial hangover that make us go.

We know. I'm not saying. And I'm also never not saying that this is not supposed to be super fun to do either. I'm talking about, I'm talking about teaching the beer drinkers to have some little water between the beer. I'm not telling you to quit drinking beer. I'm saying no, have a glass of water between the beer so you can party longer with more people and party better. Go. But there's a, there's an, there's an investment to make today and projection helps with. From. We're going to go to Vegas Friday and we're gonna take the lid off and we're gonna go without a curfew. I'm not gonna let. Let me get done what I need to do Monday, Thursday, give myself a buffer so I don't go into the debit section when I can't handle being there Monday. I mean, just a little projection for our indulgences, which we should have and can have, but pick our spots, know our zones a little bit, have a little context for where it is we're going and when we're going to be complete hedonist, which we should be, but pick our spots. So I'm not talking about responsibility being no fun, but there are metrics to it. I mean, I've seen. I've seen people do it. I've seen myself when I've done it. I've seen myself when I didn't do it. And going back, I was like, oh, right there. You didn't measure that metric. I will. No shit.

You're.

You're. You're scrambling right now, breaking a sweat,

going, yeah, you didn't prepare.

Yeah, you, you, you, you. You chose to forget about that responsibility and you didn't tend to it. And that's why you got all. That's why you're pulling more weeds now. No shit. The Monday morning weed pool to talk about the red sports car story of mine. That gave me this false sense of

confidence when I got my red sports

car, man, and I quit being me because I was relying on the car to be cool instead of me just being me, which was.

Which was being cool.

We all got red sports cars in our life. These things, these lies that we rely on to do the work for us. We know they're a fad. We know they're a facade. We know they're not us. We wear. Whether it's. Whether it's what we wear. I'm not me, man. I'm the name on the back of my jeans. No, no, no, no, no. Remember, everybody, you're wearing the jeans. They're not wearing you. Whatever. Those things that we get, we label

ourselves with and we get.

We falsely label ourselves. We almost give ourselves extra credit for labeling ourselves because they pump us up. They make us feel more identified, more part of a group in that echo chamber. And they're not real. And that's okay to love them and have them. Let's just admit they're not real. Not really you, but not to what's going on with you. And on your own at 2am between your mind and your heart and your conscious, we all got that.

It's not Asking people to be overly considerate, to have that little bit of introspection without these labels that, you know,

I see our kids in social media. We can go on and on about this. Thumbs up means they're going to be confident that day. Thumbs down, oh, now they're feeling.

What'd you say? Did you say depressed?

What?

Why?

It's like, what, you're getting your identity from a bunch of strangers that are just throwing labels that don't even know you. Number one, gonna handle that better. Number two, not really sure that's we gotta watch that as adults for our kids.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What are your rules with your kids around social media?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, the oldest one, none of them

are on social media yet. I got 14, 13, 10, even the 14 year old.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Is he not beating you to death?

[Matthew McConaughey]

He's, he's banging on the door. And we have at this point said

he has a presentation to give us

to come to Scope. We said, what's your story?

You tell us what your story is.

And I heard this the other day

and I think it's really. And I've been repeating it to my, to my son here lately. It was like, look, the, one of the problems with the social media is

that people start to just do things because they think it'd be a good post even though it's not something they want to do. So who's leading who? If you have a, if you have a healthy post, it's you doing things you like to do that you then go, oh, this would be cool to record because I'm doing it and I like to do it, rather than, oh, I'm going to go do that because that would be a really good post. So who's wagging who? Make sure. You're gonna have to go, you're gonna have to navigate when you get on

social media what's wagon, who's wagging who,

you or what you what you or

your perceived popularity and what you want to post.

So we're navigating it and it's scary. I think my son's got a head on his shoulders. He can measure it. But I've talked to him about it. Said, look, man, I get a good review, do I feel better than when I get a bad review?

You're damn right.

And I'm 53 and I got a family and I've succeeded and I got all reason to not give a damn, but it mattered. I can feel it. So I'm even susceptible. You, you're 14, you're gonna hear certain things. Someone's gonna like it's gonna give you a sense of what you think you like or don't like or how much you're approved or not. And it's coming from strangers. So can you handle that? And we're gonna, I think we're gonna slowly let him get into it. Not yet. Got to come with the presentation and then we have to go forward with

seeing what, what, how much. It's an actual exchange back and forth. You know, do I run it? Does my social media guy run it?

Does he not have it on his devices? Maybe.

And it's just a dispatch things that he, he, he thinks that he likes in life that he might want to

share without worrying about. We talk about. You can't chase that number. Can't chase that number. That number's not real. It's a great exercise to go through him with though, because it's making him consider, well, be objective about, well, who am I and what do I care about in life.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes. I was going to ask you if, if you're talking to him about that because you know, when I think about the event that you have coming up, when I think about green lights, when I just think about the concept of the art of living, it's like you've got three kids, you're gonna have to teach them the art of living. Like how do you, what is that foundation that you lay for them? Because social media, man, that's. You want to talk about something that'll mess up the art of living real fast, make you self conscious in a way that's not useful. That will shape at that age. Oh my God. That will shape the sense of who you are which then actually impacts who you become.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Hey man, scary.

I mean, look, we've, we've got a, we have some practices again, this is part of I think engineering part of it. And we sit down for dinner every night. We sit down at the home cooked meal and we sit down and we go around the table after our thank yous and we talk, everyone talks about their day, that simple thing which might sound old fashioned. It's a sobering grounding event of community within our family. And my 91 year old mother has been at the table every night for the last four years since she's been with us.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So you guys using that to shape values in that moment?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah,

it shapes values in that. No, you can't go watch something on

TV while we're doing this. We're having dinner at the table, just us.

No, you have to go put your homework down. If you hadn't got it done. You got to do that later. Now it's time for us to sit down and eat. But that's more important, my homework. Well, right now it is. Maybe since, you know, we eat dinner at 6:30. If you feel like now you're going to miss the family time after dinner to sit down and watch something together. Maybe right after school you could get that homework done so you could be cool to your future self tonight and be able to watch what we're all going to watch instead of having to go do the homework because you're not doing it.

When we all sit down to eat, delayed gratification,

we talk about what matters. Look, they know we're successful. They know that I'm famous.

They know their mother's famous.

They, I remember they had this, this

couple of them at school.

Oh, I bet you're, I bet you

live in a big house, man, since your daddy's rich and famous.

So how'd that make you feel?

Someone's like, man, it didn't make me feel good. I kind of lowered my head. I was like, why? I don't know, just kind of pointing me out. And I mean, we do have it good. And I was like,

never lower your

head for anything that we have. I go, your mom and dad have

worked as well as we could to get what we have.

We've done it as fairly as we

could and we tried to be as

competent and as good at what we do and job and supply something that was in demand that has given us the ability to live in the house we live in and drive the car and have the food that we have.

So never lower your head on that. You don't gloat about that either. That makes you no better than your friend Joey who doesn't live in a

nice house or has to take the

bus because he doesn't have a car. Mom and dad don't have a car. Doesn't make you any better than that. But you do not lower your head

in any kind of shame for things we have.

We're trying to live as responsibly as we can. We're trying to give in the right ways. Could we give more? Yes, and we're still trying to work that out. But, but don't, don't, don't, don't lower your head in any shame to who

you are and what your mom and dad have.

Now, do I worry also about entitlement with my kids?

You damn right.

Because Bud, man, we, we inherently get backstage passes, you know what I mean? We inherently get to the red rope and let in in a lot of places. And I'm like, sometimes I want my kids to wait in line and have to work their ass off to get to the front row of the concert sometimes. You know what I mean? I wanna. I broke a sweat doing that. I want to make sure, you know.

So we talked about the definition of success.

We understand that the affluence we have

or the money I've made does not. It's wonderful. But we talk a lot about character. How do we get it?

Well, how'd you earn that?

Earn don't deserve.

You don't deserve anything. And just because you're our children, you don't deserve anything. You inherently will get into certain doors maybe that others may not, but it's. It's on you. You have to abide or you have to. You have to live up to whatever's needed. Once you're in the door. We, you know, look, man, soccer ball

hits a damn cactus and. And pops. We got five other soccer balls in the damn garage.

But I gotta go. No, let's get the rubber and the glue and fix that flat. You know, I want to teach that, you know, yes, we can get another damn soccer ball. But let's work on maintaining with having things to means maintenance. Can we work to repair that instead of, yeah, you know, it's broke, so let's get a new one. They're getting us seeing inherently us taking care of my mom for four last four years, hoping that that's instilling in them the value of maybe taking care of us if that time comes later in life. Respect for elders. There's times where their grandmother's coming from an. You know, that greatest generation just hardcore and bam, this is how it is. And they're like, whoa. We're like. But you respect that you. She's earned the right. You respect what what mom act says. You can disagree with it, but let's discuss it because her reality was different than yours, you know, so we're always

talking about those things.

And I believe they are. You know, I hope my hope they're all somewhat renaissance men and women that would make me the most happy.

You know, son loves to surf. Want to make sure he still is comfortable. Put on a tuxedo at night if he wants to go to the ball.

You know, I want to be able to be in both places to feel

at home in the world.

And that entitlement. I think about that with my kids. Want our kids to make sure they understand that we have it really good to have more gratitude for what we have. Sometimes they need to go see someone who doesn't have it as good and maybe go help them out and live

in their shoes for a while.

I think that's we try and do

that with our kids as much as possible. I love it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The instilling values, what you're doing, what you did with the book, what you're doing now with the art of living. The event, which I think is really exciting if you want to tell people when and where to go for that would be amazing.

[Matthew McConaughey]

April 24th at 9am Pacific artofliving event.com

you can go there and reserve a spot. Now it's going to be myself, going to be Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, Trent Shelton, Mary Forleo, and we're going to get under the hood of Greenlight's approach and get into the process and hopefully share some tools with you individually that you can apply in your own life to one get on the road. Road to the science of a satisfaction. You can have to then get into the art of living and that's when it becomes the dance where the knowledge turns to wisdom. And that's some of the stuff we're going to really be sharing and trying to share on our level, your level and the level that we can all utilize.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I love it, man. I think people are going to get a lot out of it. You have a way of making this stuff really accessible for people. So everybody be sure to check it out. That is a pretty stellar lineup. And Matthew, everything that you've shared today is amazing. I know it will be that times 10, so. And everybody by the way, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace.