Tom Bilyeu Q&A: Simulation Theory and Silencing the Monkey Mind (Replay)

Summary

Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu – Q&A: Simulation Theory and Silencing the Monkey Mind (Replay)

Date: September 7, 2024
Host: Tom Bilyeu
Special Guest: Dr. Finesse

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Overview

This dynamic live Q&A session, hosted by Tom Bilyeu with Dr. Finesse, explores a diverse range of topics centered on mental discipline, the mysteries of reality (including simulation theory), personal growth, resilience, and actionable strategies for success. With characteristic humor, candor, and depth, Tom fields live questions from the Impact Theory audience—sharing his experiences, dissecting popular theories, and offering practical wisdom for thriving in an unpredictable world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Silencing the Monkey Mind and Mental Discipline

Timestamp: 02:27–05:14

• Calming a restless mind:

  • Tom outlines the challenge of managing a hyperactive or distracted mind (the "caged monkey mind").
  • Meditation & Box Breathing: Describes his adaptation of "box breathing" learned from Navy SEAL Mark Divine: focus intently on each part of the breath cycle (inhale, hold, exhale, hold), maximizing the pleasure and presence in each segment.
  • The practice teaches him to intentionally shift mental speed and maintain focus, even in stressful or emotionally charged scenarios.
  • Quote:

    "Learning to rapidly calm your mind is a big deal...you can actually change gears, slow it down, or speed it up."
    — Tom Bilyeu (03:05)

• Application in daily life:

  • Both Tom and Dr. Finesse discuss using these techniques during moments of insomnia, stress, or professional challenges.
  • Regular practice, especially during low-pressure moments, is vital to make centering oneself second nature during real stress.

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2. Acting before Perfection & Embracing Uncertainty

Timestamp: 06:03–08:26

• Learning vs. Acting:

  • Tom warns against "paralysis by analysis"—staying stuck in research and learning due to fear or discomfort.
  • Advocates for action even before one feels fully prepared:

    "Put a parachute on, jump off the cliff, build the airplane on the way down."
    — Tom Bilyeu (06:34)

• Handling Self-Doubt:

  • The key is to distinguish between genuine signals something is wrong and common uncertainty.
  • Persistence despite unease is essential; self-doubt and discomfort are permanent companions on the path of growth.

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3. Mentors and Core Influences

Timestamp: 08:44–11:57

• Shaping influences:

  • Tom credits authors (especially Stephen King, Lao Tzu, Tony Robbins), business partners, parents, and his wife Lisa as central mentors.
  • Lisa, his wife, is highlighted for giving grounding, perspective, and challenging outdated beliefs in their relationship.
  • Quote:

    "My wife has super deep insights...she's always been there for me, and I met her when I was young, so she's really been just a tremendous shaping influence."
    — Tom Bilyeu (10:32)

• On relationship dynamics:

  • Learning to celebrate each other's unique strengths rather than competing in everything is key for relationship health and fulfillment.

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4. Simulation Theory, Belief, and Human Understanding

Timestamp: 12:06–19:19

• Simulation Theory Skepticism:

  • Tom, a huge Matrix fan, finds simulation theory “fun” but is not convinced by its main arguments.
  • He compares belief in simulation theory to belief in God—both seem to point to a gap in understanding, but existing explanations don’t fully satisfy him.
  • On intellectual humility:

    "There is something I don't understand...I just think there's something we don't get and we're trying to explain it in human terms and it clearly transcends humans."
    — Tom Bilyeu (15:56)

  • Both hosts discuss the limits of human perception (the "umwelt") and agree that our understanding is fundamentally limited by our biology, senses, and data processing.

• Glitch-in-the-Matrix Stories:

  • Dr. Finesse shares an odd driving anecdote and the “Shazam” movie Mandela Effect—highlighting how memory and perception can play tricks, fueling simulation and multiverse speculation.

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5. Resilience Mantra & Processing Emotional Setbacks

Timestamp: 25:02–28:18

• "This too shall pass":

  • Tom's go-to phrase for navigating emotional lows, rooted in the neuroscientific understanding that emotions dissipate if not reinforced by negative habit loops.
  • Emphasizes the need to set strict timeframes for mourning/setback ("give yourself 30 days to mourn, after that, move forward") to avoid hardwiring grief.
  • Quote:

    "Every emotion, no matter how intense, will dissipate over time...This too shall pass."
    — Tom Bilyeu (25:14)

• Human resilience:

  • Both hosts reflect on the universality of moving through grief, with Dr. Finesse sharing personal experience from losing his mother.

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6. Art of Communication & Persuasive Speaking

Timestamp: 28:36–34:15

• Becoming a persuasive communicator:
  • Tom attributes eloquence to voracious reading and intentional disciplined practice.
  • The key “secret”: genuine, active listening—stopping when someone wants to speak and maintaining awareness of interpersonal cues.
  • Quote:

    "There's a very big difference between talking a lot and becoming persuasive."
    — Tom Bilyeu (30:11)

  • Constantly viewing all of life as “practice,” not “performance,” reduces fear of mistakes and supports rapid improvement.
  • Anecdote: Citing Jim Carrey’s perspective—that failure is foundational—Tom encourages relentless persistence:

    "I've always believed that my superpower is the willingness to endure that...just keep going, man."
    — Tom Bilyeu (33:04)

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7. Habit Change & Identity

Timestamp: 43:30–48:25

• Quitting habits (e.g., smoking):
  • Success comes from making the ability to suffer and endure a point of pride and identity—not just a battle of willpower.
  • Tom frames disciplined actions as extensions of a chosen identity:

    "My identity is so strong, dude, to back down and smoke a cigarette...you have to want to suffer."
    — Tom Bilyeu (44:24)

  • Embrace discomfort as evidence of your growth and control ("welcome, my friend" re: temptation).
  • Influences like Jocko Willink's "There is freedom in discipline" are cited.

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8. Bridging Knowing and Doing

Timestamp: 48:55–50:58

• From intellectual knowledge to real-world application:
  • Tom is adamant that action is the only bridge between knowing and being.
  • He tries to put new insights into practice immediately after learning—reinforcing utility and building habit loops.
  • Publicly sharing new practices enlists social accountability.

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9. Becoming a Great Interviewer, Attracting Talent

Timestamp: 50:58–58:12

• Evolution as a host:

  • Early interviews were fraught, including a scrapped episode and a long, boring session Tom had to redo after realizing the value of being authentically himself rather than playing the role of an “interviewer.”
  • Real breakthrough: letting go of the script, pursuing genuine dialogue, accepting failure as part of the journey.

• Attracting high-caliber guests:

  • Relationship and reputation are everything; Dr. Finesse is credited as a “linchpin” for leveraging industry relationships built over decades and for “guest-protective” ethics.
  • The show's value proposition—deep, authentic conversation—makes top-tier guests eager to participate.

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10. Transition from Quest Nutrition to Impact Theory

Timestamp: 58:12–63:02

• From metabolic disease to mindset:
  • Tom shares that Quest Nutrition’s original mission (ending metabolic disease) was only “one half of the equation”—the pandemic of the mind also needed to be addressed.
  • Attempts to combine body and mind mission inside Quest (e.g., Quest Apparel) were unsuccessful due to consumer perceptions.
  • Building Impact Theory as a standalone studio allowed a complete, global approach to positive cultural transformation, focusing on scalable, empowering mindsets.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On habits and addiction:

  "Once the ability to suffer is part of your identity...there's no chance I will bend or break." (Tom Bilyeu, 45:41)

• On identity as a driver:

  "It's monk level identity obsession. Once you're obsessed with your identity, then the behavior which manifests as discipline is easy." (Tom Bilyeu, 47:39)

• On resilience:

  "We are resilient and this, too, shall pass, and you'll get through it." (Dr. Finesse, 27:59)

• On storytelling and myth:
  Glitches in the Matrix and Mandela Effects (like "Shazam") prompt lighthearted, yet profound, discussions on memory, perception, and reality.

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Additional Timestamps of Importance

• Box Breathing Technique: 03:05–04:38
• Handling Uncertainty in Entrepreneurship: 06:03–08:26
• Discussion of Simulation Theory: 12:06–15:15
• "Shazam" / Mandela Effect Segment: 22:04–24:29
• Using the Calm App for Meditation: 41:17–43:15
• Strategies for Getting to Know Team Members: 37:26–40:14
• Dr. Finesse on relationship dynamics in booking guests: 54:53–58:12

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Tone & Style Notes

• Conversational, energetic, and candid, with deep dives alternated with humor and memorable personal stories.
• Tom is direct, passionate, and logical—always looking to distill actionable wisdom from complex or abstract topics.
• Dr. Finesse provides levity, real-world illustrations, and unfiltered anecdotes, creating a lively, companionable dynamic.

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Summary

In this far-ranging Q&A, Tom Bilyeu and Dr. Finesse break down the keys to mental discipline, the limits of human understanding, the mechanics of lasting change, and the art of achieving impact. Grounded in lived experience and a relentless drive to improve, Tom offers a practical, philosophical guide to thriving amidst uncertainty—demystifying everything from silencing the monkey mind to the true difference between knowing and doing, all while fielding audience questions with vulnerability and insight. An essential listen for anyone looking to see the world and themselves more clearly in 2024.

Transcript

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[Tom Bilyeu]

Only nine out of the 10 largest banks get it. They get Advantagescore. The modern credit score is the leader in predictive power, improving mortgage default predictions and saving lenders billions. Better predictions. Better for your business. With VantageScore, you're listening to the Impact Theory podcast, your source of empowering ideas and actionable techniques from the world's highest achievers. Join host Tom Bilyeu, serial entrepreneur and co founder of the billion dollar brand Quest Nutrition, on a journey to unlock your potential and realize your vision of success. Welcome to Impact Theory. Hey, everybody. And welcome to another episode of Facebook Live. Q and A. I am here with special guest Dr. Finesse. What is up, dude?

[Dr. Finesse]

How you doing?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'm doing very well, thank you.

[Dr. Finesse]

How about yourself? I'm doing fantastic.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Fantastic, my man.

[Dr. Finesse]

All right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'm respecting those horizontal stripes today, I'm gonna tell you that.

[Dr. Finesse]

You know what's funny is I go back and forth with horizontal stripes. And I think I've told you this. Living in LA before I moved here, I knew up front I never wear solid blue and I never wear solid red because of the whole gang affiliation. I'm not getting pulled over. I'm not having someone rolling up on me thinking I claim one set or something. But I figured if I wear blue and red, especially if they're horizontal stripes, I'll be okay.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You're nice and neutral.

[Dr. Finesse]

I'm a piece.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You like the Switzerland of gang affiliate.

[Dr. Finesse]

I'm the ref of gang affiliation.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Nice.

[Dr. Finesse]

I'm like, guys.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right, we'll take that for the win. All right, what do we have? You kicking us off?

[Dr. Finesse]

Yes. Yes. So, rapid fire Questions? Q and A. I'm gonna jump off from Chris purse.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You really want these handled rapid fire? Is that like a thing? We're doing that now?

[Dr. Finesse]

I think so. Well, I guess these are the questions we didn't get to last time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay.

[Dr. Finesse]

So we're just gonna kind of get through them, but we'll give them a chance to answer for you guys. So it's not just.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay, so not like strict rapid fire.

[Dr. Finesse]

Exactly. Yeah. So from Chris Purcell. Hi. I've had my own wellness biohacking business, helping others live an extraordinary life on their terms. My question is, how were you able to balance the cage monkey mind along with who you are without going crazy?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Balance the caged monkey mind with who I am. So I'll just. I don't quite understand that part. So I'll just say, how do I keep the caged monkey mind in check? We're adjusting. Adjusting. So keep the caged monkey mind in check. A big thing for me is meditation. So learning to rapidly calm your mind is a big deal. And I think a lot of people just. They actually don't know how to do that. And so your mind sort of goes to whatever speed it goes to, and they don't realize they can actually change gears, slow it down, or speed it up, quite frankly, for that matter. Like, when I can feel that my mind is really going slowly for whatever reason, the first thing I do is force myself to talk fast. Because when I force myself to talk fast, then I find that my brain is literally kicked in the posterior and forced to get into gear. So you can do the same thing with going the other way. So if you find that your mind is bouncing all over the place, literally focusing on your breath. And the important part here is focusing. So there's. In the meditation style that I use, which I'll call just breathe, which is a variation of box breathing, which I learned from Mark Devine, the Seal. You focus on each part of the cycle. So there's four sides. Inhale, inhale, hold, exhale, exhale, hold. And you focus on maximizing the pleasure of each one of those parts. And I found that in doing that, because it was pleasant, pleasurable, that I actually would get lost, like, in each part of the cycle. But the moment that I thought of the breath as sort of one holistic thing, my mind would race again because I would go on autopilot with the breathing. So I really had to focus on optimizing each individual segment of it. And then that, like, my mind, I could feel it, like, calming down, really, just getting into the moment of the pleasure of that. And that's part of why I focus on the pleasure is to truly be in the moment, to experience, to feel it, to feel when it's off, to feel when it's right. And that. That helps slow that down.

[Dr. Finesse]

And.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And once you get good at it, you can do it in other situations. So in a stressful business meeting, in an argument with somebody, like, you can literally, in a single breath or two, like, get yourself not to, like, perfect. Trust me, like, it's way easier to do when there's not somebody that you're in a heated exchange with. But. But you really can get much, much closer to baseline.

[Dr. Finesse]

You know, I remember you told me about that, the box breathing. I'd never heard of it, so after you told me, I started doing it. There are moments sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and my brain just starts.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, yes, rapid.

[Dr. Finesse]

Just rapidly thinking of things, and I can't shut it off. So I started doing the box breathing during those moments in bed. And I'm telling you, it kind of brings me to this level of just calmness and I just. I come down. So, I mean, I'm not great at it yet. I've tried to do it during the day and I. I don't know. I haven't figured it out, but at least when I'm laying down in bed, it kind of works, right? So, yeah, Practice, practice, practice, practice. So the next question from Nicole Turaway, Tom. How do you do? Sorry? How do you. When you've learned. This question's a phrase word. Sorry. When you've learned enough about a topic before you make a move, I. E. Build a product, provide a service, even though you know you have so much more to learn about that topic.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, so I tried. We just did. We covered this sort of thing, Jared and I, on the after impact. And my whole thing is I try to move way before anybody in their rational mind would move because A, there's always going to be a lot more to learn,&b, 99.99999% of the time, the reason you're telling yourself you have a lot more to learn is because that's way more comfortable to learn to research, to be in that mode and give yourself the excuse to not be taking action. So I'm like, put a parachute on, jump off the cliff, build the airplane on the way down. And that really is like, that's what getting ahead in life. Being an entrepreneur, being a Linchman, whatever, like, get yourself in over your head. And I remember one time my business partner said to me, the day that I realized I could talk my way out of anything was the day that everything changed for me. And I thought that's actually really powerful because once, you know, like, you can back out of this stuff, like, you can, if you get yourself way in over your head, just swim back to shore. You know what I mean? Like, the danger of, like, truly drowning, I mean, unless you're robbing banks is virtually zero, right? So you can always unwind this stuff. So I just, I go full steam. And there are times where, like, I'm in the middle of something, building something, and I think, okay, I can't, I can't touch anymore, right? I'm. I am now officially over my head. And usually what that feeling is is either I don't know how to pull this off or worse, I don't know if this is the right thing anymore. And I kind of relish those moments a little bit to like, keep my calm, keep my heading. Because the moment you have unease or uncertainty, if you stop you, you'll never get anywhere. So you have to say, okay, I've got a plan. I'm gonna stick with this plan. Not until I'm unsure, until I know it's wrong. Once you know it's wrong, change direction, but just because you're unsure, keep going. And that's a big thing. And I think people need to really, really, really get comfortable with uncertainty. They need to get very comfortable with self doubt because it is ever present and they need to know what they're trying to do. If you have a clear vision for what you're trying to accomplish, then you can just check, like, is what I'm doing actually moving me forward or not? And if it is, keep doing it. And then just be willing to assess. Like when you have unease, like, really look at it, really look. Is it the unease of uncertainty or is it the unease of like, I know this is wrong.

[Dr. Finesse]

That's a very good point. Very good point. Next question from Atasika Acevedo. God, I'm sorry I messed up your name. I know I did. I'm gonna go out and say I messed up your name, but that sounds cool nonetheless. We got the last one right, though. Who are your main mentors?

[Tom Bilyeu]

For me, it's always been authors, so my story is getting somewhat famous at this point. Of Stephen King changed my life. So that was a big one. He had a huge influence on me. Didn't really mean to. Maybe a little loose to call him a mentor. Lao Tzu who wrote the Dao de Jing. That was huge. That had so such a big impact on me. God, man, countless. Tony Robbins was huge for me. The guys who ended up being my business partners at Quest were huge mentors for me. My wife a huge mentor for me. And then.

[Dr. Finesse]

That's amazing to hear that. Oh, that's amazing for sure. Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And then hopefully it goes without saying, my parents who, you know, at the beginning that was all.

[Dr. Finesse]

Can I Dig a little bit. Why do you consider Lisa a mentor?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think my wife has super deep insights. And into me, I think there are times where she can see things that I don't necessarily see right away. And getting that feedback is incredibly powerful. My wife is also just an equally driven, ambitious person who has insights in life about people that I drink very, very deeply of. And then she really lives what I'll call sort of our life philosophy of, if I'm rocked to my knees, don't get on your knees with me and put an arm around me and cry with me and tell me everything's gonna be okay. Help me back to my feet, brush me off and remind me of who I'm trying to become. So she's been really, really amazing at that. And then she's the one that really helped me see that. What I'll call sort of a major flaw in my relationship game, which was I thought she would want me to be better at everything than her, and that that was the only way that she would really be impressed with me as a man. And she helped me see that that's really dumb. And who would ever want to be worse than the closest person to them in their life at everything? Right? This is how, like, siblings get into real trouble, because you compare yourself to the person that you're around. Right. Proximity is the determining factor to who you judge yourself against. And when one sibling shines at something, even though the other sibling, like when I think about the. The Venus and Serena Williams.

[Dr. Finesse]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Unfortunately, I don't know who's better. But I promise you, whoever believes themselves to be worse, even though they are one of the greatest tennis players of all time, they measure themselves against their sister. And so it probably eats at them a bit. And I met these two social influencers brothers, and one of them is just doing better than the other, and he struggles with it. The one that's doing more struggles. But it's like. But in terms of influencers, dude, your following is massive. And if you were comparing yourself against virtually any other human being on the planet, like, just, like, magnitudes bigger, but you compare yourself. So anyway, my wife showed me that doesn't make sense. And that making sure in a relationship that each of you have those areas of strength, that you're recognized for that, that you're celebrated for that. And I mean, just things like that. She's always been there for me, and I met her when I was young, so she's really been just a tremendous shaping influence. And this may be controversial, but. But you shape people through reward and punishment. And so I really feel like she has rewarded and punished me into being a better person.

[Dr. Finesse]

So that's powerful for that. I love hearing that. Athena, Don asks Tom, what are your thoughts when it comes to the simulation theory?

[Tom Bilyeu]

You know, this is interesting. So I, I am obsessed with the Matrix. I think we all know that. And you would think, think that, like I would be hardcore about the fact that we live in a simulation.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I feel that this is interesting. I'm realizing this as we talk. I have the exact same feeling about simulation theory that I have about God. There is something I don't understand. I am very, very aware of that. But the current descriptions don't make sense. So to me, the current descriptions of God don't make sense. Like they just don't from a religious perspective. Yeah. And then the current descriptions of the simulation theory don't make sense. There are things that we don't understand. For instance, Peter Diamandis, who I think is one of the smartest human beings on the planet, who actually believes that we are in an Nth generation simulation, says like one of the things that makes him think that we're in a simulation is the age of the Earth or the, sorry, the age of the universe. And it's like if we're digital, then it's not. There is no age.

[Dr. Finesse]

Right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

So this could. Because I pushed him and I said, well, you would never create a simulation that you couldn't see the result of. Right? So the thing was, well, you could be living time like this incredibly sped up thing, right? So okay, well then if that's true, like the metrics by which you're judging, like using the, whatever 4 billion years of the universe, like to say that we're probably Nth generation, like you're saying that time is totally relative, that it's actually not a real stable thing, then how does that explain if this is all just a simulation and time is this totally manipulatable variable, how does that actually explain it? So, yeah, it's the argument that everybody that believes in the simulation theory, that believes in it, it goes like this, that if we as a species are moving towards actually being able to replicate in a simulated environment our own reality, then it just makes sense that it would be infinitely. It's not quite recursive, I don't know what the, like, opposite version of that, but that we would do it forever and ever and ever. Right. So that the first civilization to do it would then ultimately create a, an indistinguishable reality. And then if that's true, then the reality that's born in that would be ever marching towards it. And then they would create a simulation and they would ever march towards it and they would create a simulation. But here's the problem. All of that presupposes, I believe, the singularity. Now, the singularity is the moment as defined by Ray Kurzweil, is the moment at which technology is advancing so rapidly we can no longer predict it. So now you're making. You're literally saying, hey, we live in the simulation, which is a prediction beyond the singularity. I just don't think that we have the ability to accurately predict what it's going to look like beyond the singularity. It's a lot of fun, and I'm really glad people do it. And I am utterly obsessed with the Matrix because it's such a powerful allegory for t. For the way that we live, for the way that we think about ourselves, for the way that we think about society. Like it's a incredibly powerful mythology. So you will see me only get more obsessed with it as time goes on. But do I actually think we're living in a simulation? No.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah, it's one of those things. I go back and forth, for the most part. I absolutely do not believe that. It just feels and sounds crazy, you know, I. Because I wonder. One question no one could ever answer who theorizes that we're living in a simulation is when the simulation began. You just never really get a clear answer from that. I mean, who would know if we are living in one? But.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I think you might be asking the more interesting question. And this used to freak me out as a kid. Okay, ready for this one?

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah. All right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

If you build a house, what do you need before you can build a house?

[Dr. Finesse]

Well, you need the frame, you need the wood, you need whatever you need to.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Let's get really basic. You need. Need a plot of land.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yes, of course. You need a plot of land.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So my whole thing was, the universe is the house. What's the plot of land? And then when you get to the plot of land, then you realize the Earth. And once you realize the Earth, then you realize space. Once you realize space, you realize the universe. Once you realize the universe, you ask the question, what's the universe sitting on? The universe is ever expanding. What's it expanding into? Yeah, like that. I can freak myself out. So when I do that whole thing and ask all those recursive questions. Questions, then I get to the point where I go, there's something I don't understand, and I'm willing to accept it. Like, I get it. There's a fundamental flaw in the way that human minds are able to comprehend of eternity or whatever, and people round it to God. I just think there's something we don't get and we're trying to explain it in human terms and just clearly transcends humans. So whatever it is. So the whole thing for me is knowing that we're sort of these meat suits, that we have biology, that if I adjust the physical structures of your brain, I will fundamentally alter the way that you perceive reality and yourself, all of it. It's crazy. So knowing that all of that is

[Dr. Finesse]

true,

[Tom Bilyeu]

I don't even know how I was going to finish that statement. The whole. The whole point of that, like, thinking about the way that we process data is to understand that, like, we are existing sort of in this thin slice of the umwelt, right? And we are trying to interpret everything through that. Like, we're trying to make the universe make sense through, like, the limited senses that we have, our limited ability to perceive and all of that. So to think that we actually grasp the answer is. I don't know. It. It's not smart. So I think anybody that thinks that they actually understand what's happening, I don't think you're. You're accepting the terrifying reality of a limited umwelt enough.

[Dr. Finesse]

Oh, man. To that point, again, you know, we base what we know about the universe off of the elements that we know here. Any elements that we, I mean, again, that we know here that are in our solar system. But as you and I know and everyone else, you can watch any video, like on YouTube to show you the size of the universe. You ever watch those videos?

[Tom Bilyeu]

You mean the solar system or the universe?

[Dr. Finesse]

The universe.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The known universe.

[Dr. Finesse]

The known universe, yes. And even. Yeah, even then they always kind of expand outside of the known universe in those videos. And for those of you who haven't seen it, just Google or go to YouTube and say, video of the size of the universe. I know there are several videos where they start with. Some of them start with a cell, and they go out to, like, a human body, and then, of course, to a city, to. To the United States or whatever country you're in, and then to the Earth. And then it just keeps going and going and going and going and as you're going. And you're just realizing like, oh, my God, how tiny, just even our solar system is in the Milky Way and how tiny, you know, the Milky Way is and just a cluster of galaxies and. And it just keeps going and going and going. We don't have the answers to the elements out there. So how can we factor in what we know about the universe based on. I mean, it's just insane. There's just so much out there, at least from what we know. We can't apply it to what we think and know. It just doesn't make sense.

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[Dr. Finesse]

So that trips me out, but again, there are moments where I'm driving down the street and this has happened several times, maybe I'm just crazy where I remember one time I was in the car driving down the street and I, I'm kind of a progressive driver. I don't speed maybe a little bit, but I move. I don't just sit in the lane. I never sit in anyone's blind spot because that's how accidents happen. I just, I keep it moving.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You finesse it.

[Dr. Finesse]

I finesse it, yes. So I remember one time I. I see this woman in this really weird blue and it's just some type of off blue Mustang convertible. Mustang. She was blonde and she had on orange 80s glasses. So very distinct. Like, look at this woman. Arizona plates. I'll never forget that. Progressively I get past her and I'm just moving, right? And I swear, about two miles up, I'm driving and I'm like, there goes that woman again. She's ahead of me. I'm like, and she's not driving fast. She's driving and just singing. And how is she in front of me again?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I've got to believe somebody's typing into the comments right now. Glitch in the Matrix.

[Dr. Finesse]

I'm telling you, that's when I was like, holy crap, we are in a simulation. How did that happen? There's a glitch. But then again, you always hear that it's really your brain. How deja vu is your brain just kind of.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Or that you just spaced out for a brief second. She did pass you by. She's one of those crazy drivers that lead foots then brakes.

[Dr. Finesse]

Exactly.

[Tom Bilyeu]

My gut instinct is that that's more likely than that. The fabric of the universe is not what we understand. But, you know, I like where your head's at. Orange glasses and Arizona plates.

[Dr. Finesse]

I'm telling you in that off blue Mustang, watch out for her. If you watch gonna see her and be like, I saw that woman.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, I can't believe you didn't bring up your real thing about how you know about the multiverse and all that.

[Dr. Finesse]

Oh, God.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Like, shazam.

[Dr. Finesse]

Shazam. I'm sure you guys have seen this, too. About two months ago.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Was it no more.

[Dr. Finesse]

More than that? That's right. Yeah. Or was it more than that? Basically, there's this movie in the 90s that existed in my universe, least that Sinbad the Comedian starred in called Shazam. Where he played a bumbling genie who gets let out of a bottle and he can't get his wishes right that he presents to people. And again, it stars Sinbad the Comedian, and it's called Shazam. Okay, so now there's a story circulating that thousands, hundreds of thousands of people believe that this movie exists. And I'm reading this story, and I'm like, what are they talking about? They believe this movie exists. It's Shazam. I know this movie exists. In fact, even before I read it, I just saw the headline, sinbad Movie that Everyone Thinks Exists that doesn't. And I was like, what? What are they talking about? Shazam. Cause that's the only one I could think of. Our man in the house. And then I'm reading this story about how Shazam doesn't exist, and everyone believes Shazam Exists. And I'm like, what are they talking about? And I go on IMDb, Shazam does not exist. I look everywhere. Shazam does not exist. And even Sinbad comes out and says, I don't know why people think Shazam Exists. I was never in a movie called Shazam. I'm like, now Sinbad has turned on me. Shazam Exists. And how come that many people? So I started calling all my friends, being like, hey, remember that movie with Sinbad where he played a genie. And they're like, yeah, Shazam. It doesn't exist. They're like, what the hell you mean it doesn't exist? I'm like, look it up. It doesn't exist. So it's so strange. Even weirder. I screenwrite on the side. I used to do it all the time. I wrote a script in, like, 2001 where there's a joke in the script about this bad movie that Sinbad did called Shazam. How come back in 2001, I'm writing about Shazam, A movie that took place in the 90s, but this movie suddenly doesn't exist? So there are theories going around that the universes, as we know, are the realities that we know have fractured. So someplace, somewhere, there is a me somewhere who's sitting around being like, wait, there's a movie called Shazam. Or sinbad, what? And I'm over here missing Shazam. So I don't know. Sometimes when I think of stuff like that, I believe that our realities have fractured or there's a glitch in our simulation.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That is amazing.

[Dr. Finesse]

So I'm sure there are people out there like, what? Shazam. That doesn't exist. So I love that story. Yeah. So our next question, by the way,

[Tom Bilyeu]

you're getting a glimpse into. So every Friday, we do a team lunch, and everyone. Their favorite part of team lunch is Dr. Finesse story time. They're incredible. It's one story like Shazam. After another. It's amazing. I wish you guys could see, like, all the smiling faces here.

[Dr. Finesse]

That's hilarious.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Story time with Dr. Semis.

[Dr. Finesse]

Story time with Dr. I gotta get, like, a little smoker's jacket.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Finesse]

Question from Janet Drescher. Is there a certain sentence or phrase you tell yourself when you're feeling down?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes. So the. Wow, what one do I use when I'm feeling down? It really depends. Like, I'm gonna shorthand it to what she can use. The real answer is, it completely depends on the situation. But the sort of go to generic one is, this too shall pass. That is an insanely important statement in my life. To know, like, to believe. Okay, There's a very big difference. To know something and to believe it to the core of your being. I know to the core of my being that every emotion, no matter how intense, will dissipate over time. It just does. And the only thing that doesn't dissipate is if you hardwire something. So take ptsd, right? You've wired something together. It's not that that neurochemistry won't pass. It will. Right. Just the hard wiring is going to remain there. And so now when something triggers it, it replays really fast. So it's sort of always there, waiting to be replayed, but no one can stay, even in a, like, PTSD flashback moment forever. It's. Everything dissipates, and then understanding why it dissipates because of the way that neurochemistry works and understanding that you can take control of that, that you can unwind any of the wiring. So, like, when I'm down, I am so careful, and I want everyone listening to this to understand this. I am so careful not to let it hardwire. Like, I really. I. That's why I give myself. If I. And I've mentally rehearsed this one a thousand times. If I was paralyzed or diagnosed with, like, what Stephen Hawking has, and I knew that, like, I either lost immediately or was going to lose the function of my body. I give myself 30 days to mourn. Day 31. Like, done. You have to move forward, dude. You absolutely have to. And there have been times, nothing that dramatic, but there have been times in my life where it's like, whoa, that really sucks. You take time to mourn and then. And literally set the number of days, because at the end of it, you're not going to feel like not mourning anymore. You're going to want to keep mourning. So especially if it's something that there's a constant reminder of. So you just have to say, I have this many days to mourn. Decide now when you're in an emotionally sober state, and then hold yourself to it when the time comes and that's it. And you just like. And then you start forcing yourself, forcing yourself to smile, forcing yourself to laugh, force yourself to watch comedies, read funny things. Literally. There's a process to this stuff. And just. Yeah. So, anyway, back to her question. This, too, shall pass.

[Dr. Finesse]

No, I think that's great. You know, it's one of those phrases I've heard throughout my life, and it just wasn't applicable to me for the most part until my mom passed away. And I'll never forget, a previous host I worked for, Tavis Smiley, said that this, too, shall pass. I remember there was a part of me in my head, I was like, oh, man. And there was this weird part for a second where I got upset because I was like, my mom passed away. This feels awful. There was no way this is gonna pass. And it passed. It did. I mean, of course, there are days I still just break into Tears thinking about her, but that overwhelming feeling of grief, it really did pass. And it made me realize how resilient we are as humans. And I think people need to remind themselves that we are resilient. And this, too, shall pass, and you'll get through it. And I forget the power of that statement. So you just reminded me about that, and I'm gonna use that just with even minor things.

[Tom Bilyeu]

For sure.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah, I love that one. The next question is from Lindsay Hahn. Do you recommend any tools to improve speaking skills? You speak incredibly eloquently when communicating your vision and inspiring others. Thank you. That is a big thing, and I hear that people say that about you all the time. So, yeah. What. What do you do?

[Tom Bilyeu]

There's two things. I read a lot. A lot. Like, can we just talk about that for a second? Like, read, read. People are. They're pouring their heart and soul. They're giving you secrets to the universe because humans have this wonderful wiring where it feels so good. I love it, Christopher, when people write and say, like, you've impacted my life. You've changed me. Thank you so much. Like, that feels so good. People will never stop sharing their secrets, because that feels so wonderful to feel like, whoa, I worked really hard to gain this information. I want to share. I want to share. I want to share. A, it feels good just to help people, and then B, to get it reflected back. That actually worked. Like, that's amazing. So books are incredible. People pour their heart and soul, their secrets, everything into them, and you get to, like, see that logic, hear the sentences, watch the flow. Like, all of it. You just, like, soaking it in the ideas, and they're becoming part of you. The second thing is, if you want to get good at something, do that thing in a disciplined practice format. Okay? There is a very big difference between talking a lot and becoming persuasive. So one of the things that I do to be persuasive, that I get credit for now because I do an interview show, but listening, right? Like, stop and listen. One of the things that I am uber proud of myself for getting good at and watch. You'll see me do it. If I see someone go, I know they want to talk, and I'll stop. And if, for whatever reason, I keep talking, I almost always will acknowledge, I know you want to say something. I just need to, like, Because I need to reinforce it myself. Like, and the reason that I do that is once someone has something to say, they're not listening anymore. Like, they are now waiting for their turn to say something. So you're way better.

[Dr. Finesse]

Ah, that's true. Yeah. See, but that's true, though. That's very true.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I will literally stop myself mid sentence. And if I see somebody taking the breath, I'm like, you were about to say something. It's. Dude, that kind of stuff's important. So not thinking that what makes me persuasive is just my ability to explain. That's a huge part of it. And you have to practice talking, for sure, but you have to do it in a disciplined practice kind of way. You really have to look at what are my goals, what am I trying to get good at? What am I bad at? Oh, I'm bad at, like, recognizing when they want to talk. Okay, I need to start practicing that. And. And by practicing it, I mean in real life, just start doing it and. Yeah. So my wife. No, Jared and I. Jesus, that's terrifying that I confused Jared with my wife. We were working on an article.

[Dr. Finesse]

What was that?

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's getting weird really fast, right? We were working on an article yesterday, and. Oh, God, where was I going with that? That's twice today. And I slept well last night. I'm not sure what's happening where. I think I was talking about discipline, practice. Oh, it's going somewhere. What did I confuse?

[Dr. Finesse]

You were talking about, you know, speaking. Well, discipline and practice. I don't remember.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, it was about practicing. Oh, that just. All of life is practice.

[Dr. Finesse]

Okay.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And we were talking about that in the article that people really have a hard. Like, I think they think there's something fancier going on, and it's really just never, ever think life is performance. Always think it's practice. Like, this episode of Q and A is not performances practice. And I do that. This is something that I do a lot when I'm. There's a lot of pressure on me. I'll remind myself this is just practice. And once you believe that, like, you can always come back from something. And this is. Jared and I were talking about this in the context of the article. There's a great quote from Jim Carrey where he said, until you've, like, totally bombed five times, when somebody says, tonight's the night, man, like, so and so's in the audience. If. If you make an impression, like your career's made, don't mess this up, man. This is. You know, he said, until you, like, mess that up five times, it's like you haven't even started yet. And that really left an impression on me because he became so big and so famous. So for him to Say that he had messed, like, that magical night up so many times. I was like, that helps to know that. Just keep going, man. What happens is people mess up that night where people tell them there's all kinds of pressure, and then they crumble because they think that they blew it. But if, you know, it doesn't matter if I fuck this up, like, I'll come back. I'll do it again and again and again and claw my way back up. And I've never been. So I think of it as, like, MMA rankings, right? So at first you're not ranked, and then you get all the way, and now it's like your title shot and you're ranked number one. But if you then win or, sorry, take that fight and lose, you don't go back to number one contender. You. You normally, like, way drop down the list. And I've never been afraid to do that. I've never been afraid to mess that moment up or whatever, and then know that, okay, now I'm gonna have to spend the next six months, like, clawing my way back up. And I've just, like, I've always believed that my superpower is the willingness to endure that. Like, if I just keep going, like, I know other people are gonna fall off. And this started in film school because everyone moved back home. Everyone, they came to la. LA ate them up, so sent them back home and like, one after another, within, like, 18 to 24 months, people were just, like, dropping like flies. And I was like, well, then I'll just make my thing. I'm not gonna stop. And I remember people saying, like, what's your cutoff date? Like, how many years do you put into this? And I was like, literally, I'm gonna delude myself. Like, Even if I'm 80 and I still haven't made, I'm just gonna keep. Almost there, almost there. Like, I just gotta keep going. And because I've always believed that that was like, a superhero strategy, I've just kept employing it. Kept employing it. And, Christopher, when this studio is what I know it's going to be, do you know how hard I'm going to laugh? Like, I'm going to laugh because I just outlasted. I just kept coming back and kept coming back and kept coming back.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah, I think that's true with people, especially any big city. But I could only speak for la, you know, you see that a lot. There are so many transplants out here with dreams and people out here to make something of themselves. But it's so crazy how quickly People re, you know, jump back to their comfort after failure.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yep.

[Dr. Finesse]

It's.

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If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H VAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-granger. Visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Dr. Finesse]

Unbelievable. And it's the same thing with me. I moved here from Boston. It was a predominant film school. Even acting in there. And people who came out here, it didn't work out for them within the first year, year and a half, and they bounced. And I remember thinking, God, it's only a year and a half to two years. And what helped me was to think of other success stories and how often people failed and how it didn't happen overnight. And even the people you thought it happened overnight to, it wasn't overnight. They just put in so much work. And what you just said reminds me of what you said another time. How you're always looking. You're not. You don't want to remain stagnant. You're always looking for ways to succeed. Even when you feel that you've succeeded, you haven't succeeded because you could always

[Tom Bilyeu]

go, gotta move that goal.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

My yoga session is terraforming.

[Dr. Finesse]

Terraforming.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And that's just code. I don't actually plan to terraform, but to dream so big that you say, I'm gonna take that planet out there and I'm gonna make it habitable, like, that's. That's a dream.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I mean, like, hey, when you're willing to do that with a straight face and then like, do the incremental steps that it's required to actually pull that off. Like, I'm about it. I'm about it. And so I will just keep. Like, there's things that I have to accomplish before that, but I'm just going to keep going and tell. Because I don't think that what we're doing here to make this bigger than Disney, that's not terraforming. Right. It's big, but it's not terraforming. So we'll just keep executing and. Because I plan to live forever. And by the way, no one's going to laugh harder than me if I die. Like, let's just like, can I tell you what I. My wife won't let me do it. But do you know what I wanted my funeral to be like? I wanted my body to be like this. I wanted to greet people like, you know, like animatronics.

[Dr. Finesse]

Like, that'd be a terrifying funeral. Cindy didn't see it. She's like, look at. She's like, what are you doing?

[Tom Bilyeu]

I found it so funny that. And she was just like, there's no universe, right? Because she's, you know, like you were saying about your mom, she would be in the grips of grief to come in, and I'm like, you have to laugh at this.

[Dr. Finesse]

That would be terrifying.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So, yeah, if you can't laugh at your own death, what can you laugh at?

[Dr. Finesse]

That's pretty amazing. The next question is from Carlos Arenada. Tom, how do you get to know the people working for you? And strategies on how to start would be nice.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I don't get to know people that are working for me any differently than I get to know anybody else. So if you want to be interesting, be interested. I also happen to be. I am so desperate to learn that just hearing people's story and finding out what they're about, like, that's fun for me. I also happen to really like people. So even though I'm never afraid to be alone, I do enjoy people. And I find that to be sort of a weird dichotomy in me. It's like I am intensely. Not intensely. I'm an ambivert. Once I had that word, I really began to understand myself because I. I'm sort of. I lean introverted by nature, but I find it relatively easy to go extroverted. But when I recharge, I recharge by myself. But I really do enjoy people, so I want to get to know people, ask questions. That's very simple. Take the time to sit down and write a few stock questions that you have. That way you're not, like, trying to think of the question that you just. There are things that you have that you know, and then I am excitable and fascinable, right? So, like, I want to hear somebody's story. I want to know what makes them unique. I want to see things from their perspective. And that really captures me and, like, gets me going, and it's super intriguing. And then I am not afraid to ask really inappropriate questions that are way too intimate to be asking somebody that you work with. So I. Yeah, I just ask all those questions. And I find that when people get over that sort of initial shock of I can't believe you're asking Me this. Then some really interesting things happen. And so that's why my interviews are so weird. And I definitely rub people. Some people the wrong way. Like, there's no question. And I know in my future, somebody is gonna write, like, a glassdoor review about my interview style and be like, what the fuck is wrong with that guy? But, like, I am increasingly beginning to realize I'm a filtering mechanism. Okay. I am not for everybody. I fully understand that. And my job is to filter. In this fact. This is what I was talking about with. Are we talking openly about. We are. Because I. Well, I said it was a secret thing. I don't know what my whole thing is with secrets. Recently, I find it fun. It's intriguing, right? Like, I'm trying to pique people's interest. So, anyway, we were with Jared Adams. If you guys haven't seen these episodes, absolutely incredible. The guy's amazing. And as I was talking to him, I realized what I was about to tell him might totally turn him off. And I was like, doesn't fucking matter. Like, he needs to know who I am. And so I was just like, look, this is what we're really about. And I'm a filtering mechanism. So if you. If you get it, if you understand what we're really trying to do and it aligns with what you want to do, Amazing. But I'm not gonna sell you on what we're trying to do, so. And it went amazingly well.

[Dr. Finesse]

That's great.

[Tom Bilyeu]

In fact, I haven't even brought you guys up to speed. Last night was amazing.

[Dr. Finesse]

Okay. I can't wait to hear about it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Dr. Finesse]

For sure.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It'd be really interesting to hear what Cindy and Casey think. Thought.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But I had an amazing time.

[Dr. Finesse]

I'm gonna do a couple things before moving on to one thing in particular. Couple shout outs from Bonnie Noel in Seattle. Yeah. Sandre Hellesmark from Norway. Carlos Arenada. Which we just had a question from. From Chile. And I want to circle back. So someone just said, could it be Kazam. That Shaq was in regarding the Shazam With Sinbad, Believe me, it is not Kazaam. In fact, when Kazaam came out and Shaq was playing a genie in a movie called Kazaam, I remember vividly being, like, ripping off Shazam. Yes. I was like, they are ripping off Shazam. And again, you hear this from a lot of people if you Google this. That comes up a lot. And people are always like, no. And they thought the same thing.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right.

[Dr. Finesse]

They thought that the Shaq movie ripped off Shazam it's weird. And I would never mix up Shaq and Sinbad. One's a light skinned brother, the other one's a dark darts too. I think it was like seven foot tall. It's not gonna happen. I'm not gonna mix those two up.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You heard it here. First

[Dr. Finesse]

question from do you use an app for meditation? And I see you wearing headphones in your videos.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Dr. Finesse]

So, yes, we all know. Anyone who's worked with Tom knows about the headphones, but yes, I'll let you chime in there.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So I do. Very much so. I use an app called Calm. I do not not do guided meditation. I just listen to the sound. In fact, guided meditation makes me want to punch people indiscriminately. I don't know what it is. I hate it so much I can't even tell you. It drives me crazy. So don't do those. I listen to the sounds of nature, so if it's dark out, I do everything based on the real what's really going on. So if it's nighttime, I listen to like nighttime sounds. If it's nighttime and it's like raining, I'll listen to the sounds of rain. If it's a beautiful, bright sunny day like it is today, I'm going to listen to the sounds of a meadow with birds chirping and stuff. Somehow knowing that I'm echoing what's actually outside really puts me in the zone, even though I'm inside. The only sort of exception to that is if it's a bright sunny day, I will listen to the tropical beach, even though I'm not near the beach. And I find that incredibly, incredibly soothing.

[Dr. Finesse]

You can see it from your house though.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You can see the ocean. Yeah. Which is like a whole thing. Views make a difference and my wife convinced me of that. I wasn't yes old. I want to derail on that, but so, yeah, I definitely do sounds get in the zone. I find it so impactful that if. If I'm like, stressed out, no joke, three minutes with the sounds of nature and I chill. And like, sometimes if I'm doing contracts, I'll listen to music with no lyrics. And other times, like, if the contract is making me really fucking stressed, then I'll put on the sounds of nature and like it. Woosa.

[Dr. Finesse]

Interesting. A question from Haratiyu Radescu again. I hope I got that right. Any tips on quitting smoking or any habit?

[Tom Bilyeu]

You ready for the best bad advice you've ever received in your life? I actually considered getting addicted to opiates just so I could show people what quitting is about. Wow, terrible idea. Yes. We can all agree. So I didn't do it in the end. But here's the thing. You have to want to suffer, like once the ability to suffer is part of your identity. Like, I'm so looking forward to the three day fast. Because it's going to hurt, right? It isn't going to be fun and because it's not going to be fun and because I'm willing to do it anyway. Because I have all these mental tricks that I put in place to make sure that I could actually get through something like that. I will be so proud of myself for enduring that suffering, that you have to want that, right? So if I was smoking, I would change my identity immediately and say, I am not beholden to a fucking cigarette. You must be out of your mind. So under no circumstances right now, I smoke. The next second I do not smoke. Nary the twain shall meet. I'm done. My identity is so strong, dude, to back down and smoke a cigarette. When you make that kind of fucking aggressive proclamation to yourself and to the rest of the world, you, if I, I would come on here and I'd be like, I'm never smoking another cigarette as long as I live. You think I would back down from that, dude? I want people to understand this. Like, your identity is the driver. Get excited about your identity, but you've got a. You've that same way that like anger will allow you to endure more pain. The level of aggression and intensity that you can put into saying you are something. You act a certain way and, and in those moments of weakness which are coming for you, I'm never blindsided by them. I know a moment of weakness is coming for me. But in that moment, Christopher, I turn to my identity. I know who I am. I am willing to suffer. I am willing to sit there and go, this sucks. And all I want right now is a cigarette. And I will say, as I do with hunger, welcome, my friend. I greet you as my friend. I'm so grateful that you've come back to me. Because now in this moment where I'm sitting starving and all I want is food. One, I'm grateful to you for making me leaner. And two, I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful to you for giving me the opportunity to sit in suffering knowing that because I want something, because suffering is in service of my goals, there's no chance I will bend or break. I will make it on the other side of this. So these Guys know during the three day fast, I have asked them to cook food that smells amazing so that I can suffer, so that I can sit there and know with this beautiful arrogance that I won't touch a single bite of that and that I will love the aromas because they tempt me so profoundly. And I'm still not gonna break. There's so much beauty in that. There's so much beauty in that. As Jocko Willink said, there is freedom and discipline. Once you know, there's no universe in which I will break my three day fast. Can we agree, Christopher? There's no universe. I'm not breaking my three day fast. In fact, I have, I think we'll two or three broadcasts in the middle of the field fast. So is what it is like not going to do it under any circumstance. Like, so, for instance, if we had a massive episode come up and it was like, hey, going to have to do the episode fasted. Just know two ways about it. Going to have to do the research facet and research fasted. Oh, like that is suffering. Because there's, there's nowhere to hide in all of that. You're just sitting there with a computer. You have to embrace the suffering. So if it weren't so damaging, I would have to get a serious addiction just so I could break it.

[Dr. Finesse]

That's monk level discipline right there.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's not. It's monk level identity obsession. Once you're obsessed with your identity, then the behavior which manifests as discipline is easy. But you have like, understand my identity is about being disciplined.

[Dr. Finesse]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

If it was just, oh, discipline comes naturally, then I would have no discipline. It is that my identity is about being able to fight through stuff like that and being able to do the work. And that's what I lean on. Like at night when I really don't want to keep working, I remind myself during the week, if I'm awake, I'm either working or working out. And so it's very easy to assess am I working or working out right now? No. Then you're breaking your own identity. And I so want to be that person that I can envision that. Then I get back to work.

[Dr. Finesse]

That's amazing. Joshua Martell, by the way, says, FYI, change my work schedule from mornings to evenings just so he can be a part of the live sessions.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's amazing, dude. Thank you, man. That guy, honestly, like, if there is a bright center to our universe, he is in that small cluster of people.

[Dr. Finesse]

That's great, Great. Joshua, question from Jen Goldin. How do you bridge the gap between knowing something intellectually versus truly understanding it and putting it to use.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Action. Action. I'm glad she gave me the answer right in the question. So I am. I am just an aggressive, absurd believer that you have to act. You have to act, like, right away. So when I learn something new, I try to put it into use immediately. Immediately I begin practicing it. So if I read it at 8:01, at 8:02, no bullshit. Like I'm trying to put it to you. So. And then that reinforced, one, it reinforces whether it has utility or not. And then two, like, you start making it that habit loop. I also tell when something's really profound. I don't tell everybody every little thing that I'm trying, but when something really hits me and I'm like, whoa, I need to, like, really make this a part of who I am, I just start telling people. And then hopefully, somebody will use that against you. And in a moment where you're not doing it, they're like, hey, I thought you xyz, right? Like, somebody. I said, always say yes. And then somebody wanted me to do something. I was like, oh, man. God, I'm so tired. I don't know that. Oh, no. It was Matt Ligotti. Matt Lagati. What is up? Over@vaynertalent wanted me to do. We were at a Facebook party, and he wanted me to do those, like, gift things where, like, you do, like, progressive stuff. You're like, no, I hate silly stuff. I hate silly is the one thing that, like, yeah, yeah. And he was like, I thought you were the say yes guy, you motherfucker. So I went, christopher, I made silly faces.

[Dr. Finesse]

Oh, I can't imagine that, actually. Wow. I cannot imagine that. Wow. This is a Tom and Dr. Finesse question from Corinne Davis. Hi, Tom. First, I can't thank you enough for all the incredible tools and information you share through all of the it shows and inside quest. Of course, before that, love them all. Can you please tell me about your evolution as a host? When you were first getting started and when you were unknown, what steps did you take to get to the point where you can attract the kind of talent you get? Now, what was effective for you in pursuing talent and what is different now? And how can I best provide value for the people that I'd like to interview?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay. Is there a doctor Finesse side?

[Dr. Finesse]

Actually, no, I don't see that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So. Well, here's the good news. My answer to this question is always a simple same. Dr. Finesse is a linchpin. He is the key behind the guests that we get. Make no mistake. How do I get the guest? By making sure that this man is on the team. Like, that's how I get guests. So I'm not even going to take credit for that. Like, this team, literally, I think of myself as a talent. I show up, I perform, I do my interviews, I do the research. But at the end of the day, the show is the team. So Dr. Finesse gets the guess in no uncertain terms. The man has a. As I think you guys can see just from your little bit of time with him, he's just an incredible personality. People want to be around him. You do that for 25, 30 years and you just collect an amazing group of people that want to see you win. That's how the world looks at this man. They want to see him win. I get to reap the benefits of that, because all the people out in the industry that want to see him win, that he's been good to over the years, that he's fought for, done amazing things, things for save them, been saved by them, and acknowledge them for saving his ass, which makes him want to do it again. Like, all of those things have created this amazing reputation. He's also way more likely to push back on me. If I say, hey, I want to get this person, and he knows it wouldn't be a good move for them, he'll push back on me before he'll go out and try to get them. So he's very guest protective, which is a huge ethos of our show. We protect the guest, and that just means that he's going to continue to have a good reputation on and on ad infinitum. What was I like as an early interviewer? Terrified. I think that's sort of the only word. Terrified and driven. So I'll give you guys an example. Episode number one got buried. This was back at InsideQuest. Episode one got buried because I didn't know how to help the guest, and the guest essentially froze. And it was literally. It was a comedy routine. And if it were just me, I could see releasing the episode. So you see how bad I was. But it would implicate him. He's such an amazing human being. I don't want to do that to him. The second episode we recorded twice. Did you know that?

[Dr. Finesse]

I did not know that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

We recorded it twice, back to back. So literally the whole interview? Yes. So imagine I'm doing the interview, and in the middle of the interview, I'm sitting there going, I'm bored out of my mind. So I was like, there are two options because I didn't know how to interview. So I'm like, there are two options here, because I was getting the exact same interview this guy had done a thousand times. And this is where I started to conceive of the loop. I'm like, this is. He says this in every interview. And I was like, I can't get him past it. So in literally the middle of the interview, I'm sitting there going, this is boring. This is not moving me forward. So I'm either never doing this again, we're just going to shut down the show. Sorry, guys, it was a failure, or we're gonna redo this, and I'm gonna be me, because I was trying to be the interviewer I thought I was supposed to be. And so we wrapped. It was like a full hour, like, hour and a half, if I remember right. It was long, and it was one of those where you're so spent at the end of it. And I just said to him, that was amazing. I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much. But I didn't do a good job. I'm not happy with what I've done. I'm really learning. Would you mind doing that again? It was John Glaud, and that man was so gracious and so kind and did it again immediately. Right then and there, we started over. He was able to answer the questions, be fresh, be energetic, give a great interview. It was amazing. And I began to find my footing, and I think if he hadn't shown me that grace, courtesy, kindness, I don't know what would have happened, because he let me practice, essentially, he let me practice in, like, a super naked, raw, vulnerable way. It was amazing. I'm eternally indebted to that man. Well, it ended up being a great interview.

[Dr. Finesse]

That's. I did not know that story. That's amazing. I guess, Corinne, since you presented this as a Tom and Dr. Finesse question, I'll answer that question. Also, Tom said what he said about me. I have the connects, and, you know, I've been through the industry long enough to suss out my connections and bring them here, but in reality, those people would. Wouldn't come here if they didn't see the value in the show. And that's the trick. You know, I remember when I started this show was fairly new when I started on Inside Quest, and in the world of pr, when you're getting their clients to come on a show, if they don't know somebody, and. And if it isn't mainstream, then you're dead in the water. They just come. So the trick was to convince them to come here. Not just using my connections and using my clout. I had to bring them here if they saw value. And they immediately saw value when they saw Tom's interviewing style. Because I can safely say this, and I, and I say this all the time in all my pitches, and I've mentioned this to you, I tell people straight across the board that his interviewing style is unrivaled. Unrivaled. And, and I've worked with all types of interviewers, all types from different backgrounds, different news outlets, different statuses. And again, unrivaled. You bring something to the table that a lot of those interviewers don't bring and that's understanding and that you listen. These other interviewers listen too. But again, there's an agenda. They're produced and they have questions to ask. Whereas you meander with the interview. It's like you're like some of them are God, the Nile river and you're an ocean. You know what I mean? Like you go with the wind and the wave and the elements and you go along with it and that's what makes it really important. And I think people see that when they watch these interviews. No, I know. They see it right away. They think this guy is a solid interviewer. And booking is really complex, especially when you get into the top tier type of guest, like the A list guest. There are so many factors. You know, you have their managers who have to sign off on it, their publicity who have to sign up on it, their day to day managers who have to sign off, the talent themselves who have to sign off. And their public relations, their personal public relations. It's. There are so many moving pieces that's so complex. You got to play the game. You got to go out for drinks, even if you don't drink much. I've mastered faking drinking. It's unbelievable. But there are so many variables. But. So there's a lot for them to agree on. But if there's one thing they all agree on, whether it's a no or yes, is that you're a solid interviewer. So again, my job is pointless unless there's a great interviewer attached to a show like this. And we just happen to have an amazing interviewer. So that's the answer to my question. It's a two way street, if that makes sense. Did I use that phrase? I'm the worst at phrases. My wife always points that out, like colloquialisms. And phrases. I always use them inappropriately. She's like, that's not where you say you did. All right. Okay, okay. Question. Oh, this is a great question from Ryan Stanley, Tom. What compelled you to shift from your goal to end metabolic disease to impact theory?

[Tom Bilyeu]

So. So that's easy. I always saw wellness as a 360 degree endeavor that had to encompass not only the body, but the mind. And so ending metabolic disease is only one half of the equation. I always thought Quest would be my forever company. Never expected to leave it. I thought that we'd be able to get the brand to be flexible enough that each of us could bring our own other interests into it. And I learned a hard lesson about the way that people identify with the brand. Brand. And so for those of you who don't know, we actually tried to launch Quest Apparel, which was something we were all excited about and that crashed and burned because people were not looking at a protein bar company for high fashion. And so that was a painful lesson because we thought, but wait, we're interested, we're passionate. This whole mindset thing, because Quest Apparel was supposed to bring mindset to clothing. And we did it in a horrific way, which was like really subdued and subtle. So it was like nice clothes with like these empowering statements is so bizarre. But it was like, it felt so right. And so that was a time where we just, we weren't being realistic about the way that trying to marry fashion and mindset, we just weren't. And then when I thought, okay, we were so successful, I mean, the company is just crushing, crushing, crushing. Making money head over fist, going incredibly well. Now's the time. I really want to show people the mindset behind what allowed us to build that. And that was something I always thought, we're not getting enough credit. Like, we get credit for making an amazing product, but people don't understand. Like, we made like, crucial decisions along the way that had to do with mindset that allowed us to accomplish what we accomplished and the ability to keep up with the growth. That was all mindset. To build the culture. That was all mindset. Like, there was this thing at the core of Quest that made us successful that wasn't about the product. All of our marketing, all of it was all mindset. And so I wanted to show people, and I thought, now is my chance, like, to bring out this other side. And also part. A big part of why I started InsideQuest was I was afraid that the. I always wanted whatever company I'm involved in to be the best thing that happened to the employees, right? Just like to be a magical, magical experience. And so we had the 25 bullet points, which are the impact theory, belief system. And it was being memorized, but not necessarily lived. And that was my fear when I wrote them, was that people will memorize them, but they're not going to live them. And so I wanted to bring on other successful people to learn from myself and to help them see, like, you're going to see this pattern over and over and over, over and over and over about what a successful mindset looks like. And so that I thought, man, that's going to be amazing. People are really going to get it. And it just, it was going to be a long, slow slog, and I was going to force my partners down a financial road that didn't necessarily make sense to them. And so it's like, like, what do you do with that? And so we just reached a point where for me to live the mission that I want, which is wellness, body and mind, the mind company had to exist. The body company was already crushing it. So the only way the mind company was going to happen, it wasn't going to happen inside Quest, because it was very clear that the consumer just could not make the leap between the mindset and the protein bar. Right? They loved the protein bar. They got it. They loved the fitness, all of it. They got it. They didn't get the mind stuff. So we were building two separate things unintentionally. I always thought that they would merge together. And so we just said, okay, now's the time. You know, we had made enough money off the company, I never had to think about money again. And it just became about spinning that studio off into a standalone thing to have the kind of cultural impact on mindset that I wanted to have. It's not about one on one. It's about literally changing the way that a kid in the inner cities thinks or a kid in a favela or a wealthy person in Bahrain, whatever. Like just getting people on a mindset that's sort of humanity plus and scales and is personally empowering. Right? So all that stuff and me recursively asking the question, no bullshit, what would it take to do that? And the answer was, had to be a studio, had to leverage the five. I mean, we've gone into this a thousand times. I won't derail here. But like all of the things that impact theory stands for, that's what it had to be. So this is me completing the circle. So metabolic disease ending, that was very specific to the pandemic of the body, but the pandemic of the mind still had to be addressed. And it just became clear to me that I wasn't gifted enough as an entrepreneur to do them in the same company. And maybe one day I will crack that nut and I'll realize how it really can be holistic. I just. I wasn't good enough to do it, so I had to spin it off into a standalone company. So here we are.

[Dr. Finesse]

We are at the hour mark.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Wow.

[Dr. Finesse]

1102. It's my first time doing it. When do you guys normally stop?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Now.

[Dr. Finesse]

Okay.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Unfortunately, we have to wrap, so we're back to this camera. Guys, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, if this content is adding value to your life, please share it. And if you're watching, this community is growing insanely, insanely fast. And we are so grateful to each and every one of you. Remember, we're in a race with Peter Diamandis. The first to 3 million wins. So help us get there by sharing this content. But only, of course, if it's adding value. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care everybody. Thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to itunes, go to Stitcher Rate and review us. That helps us build this community. And that is what we are all about right now. Building this community as big as we can to help as many people as we can deliver as much value as possible. And you guys rating and reviewing really helps with that. Alright guys, thank you again so much. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.